We're here to study about Buddhist teaching, about psychology, about human experience and human behavior, and the world's right now having kind of a hard time it seems. This thing about China really upsets a lot of people all over the world, so I think we're here to study in hopes that understanding ourselves better may help us in this world where great old countries with Buddhism in their background and everything

[01:12]

still wind up in situations where young people are killed, young, courageous, intelligent people are killed. And then the whole country has to, the whole world has to live with that. So, did Susan Alexander kind of go away? Does anybody know her? Yes, she was here last week. Yeah, she was in class last week? Yes. Oh, by the way, before I forget, next week is Sashin.

[02:15]

How many people here are going to sit Sashin? Quite a few. It might not work for you to go to class during Sashin, I imagine. Right? Hmm? I would like that. I'd be happy for you to come, I just don't know if it would work for you during Sashin. I mean, I don't know, maybe people in Sashin would not want you to come. What do you think? We don't know. Is there a class next week? That's why I'm asking. It's not in the schedule. The schedule says it's skipped? Yeah. So is that all right? Skipping next week? And a week after that? Hmm. Okay, so Susan Alexander, I don't know where she is.

[03:19]

She's got black hair, though. And this is Jennifer Pippett. And back there is Lee Burrow. And this is Ross Caron. Ross Caron? This is Matthew Corey. That lady in the white over there is Rosalie Curtis. What? Lauren Dossman, where are you? Madison. What? She moved to Nevada City. Oh, is that your friend? Yes. Peggy Denisle, in the launcher. Over there is Brett Kraske.

[04:27]

The man in the aquamarine shirt. Is that aquamarine? What is it? Turquoise. Turquoise? The man in the striped turquoise shirt is John Grimes. To his right is Leslie James in a similar color outfit. Gerald Lambert, over here, leaning on his left hand. Pat Landry, we don't know where she is. I don't anyway. And now we come to Greg and Joe. But actually, it's Joe, huh? You're Joe, right? Right. Where's Greg? Look. Here. Oh. You know, I keep switching.

[05:35]

It's good for my nervous system. This is Joe. Joe what? McDonald's? Right. And this is Greg McDonald. Paul Middleton. You're Paul Middleton. This is Paul Middleton. How many classes have you attended? How many? All of them. Shh. Maggie Northcott just went to one and gave up. Hillary's been here for all of them. Hillary Parsons. Pat Phelan.

[06:44]

He's not here. Bill Redican. Right here. Jeffrey Schneider's not here. We'll miss him. Michael Smith. He's right here. Sam Smith is no longer around. Gil Smolin. Here. Julia's not here. Sigrid's someplace. Thomas Bond. Hi. Linda Weintraub. Did she go with Linda Weintraub? This is Scott Wren. Here. Right there. And Lynn Zanke. Back there. And Basha, your name's not on here. Oh, there it is. Sorry. This is Basha Petnik. And did you ever sign up for the class?

[07:45]

You can tell Tom Cabarga about this. He doesn't have your name on this. Let's put your name again, now. Steven Kelley. Steven? You've been to all classes, right? Mr. Freshman? Oh. Anybody else in the class besides the visitors? No. There's three visitors. Okay, so last time we started with this one here. This is an entry point into this circle of the twelve links of conditioned co-production. And I pointed out that the usual way of teaching would be first to teach the five skandhas, the five aggregates, which are static, a static analytic presentation of an experience.

[08:52]

Then, after you can deal with the static and the analytic, then these twelve links would be different ways, different entry points into and different aspects or points of view onto this static analytic, which would finally produce a dynamic, interpenetrating, mutually producing, ungraspable way of living, way of experiencing, which we call the content and process of the awakened mind, the buddhic mind. And also, last time we talked about the importance of the word name, nama, nama rupa, name and form, that basically, most of us, the way of entry into experience is through words,

[10:04]

because when we know things, when we're aware of things, the world we live in that we know about, the knowable world is name, is word. So, the basic principle is you enter the realm of the unknown, you enter the realm of the unknowing and the realm of the unknowable, the realm of, in some senses, the insignificant, not insignificant in the sense of unimportant, but in the sense of having no sign. You enter those realms through the known or through the knowable, through words, through names. The first step in wisdom is by hearing, hearing words of instruction.

[11:15]

The next step in developing wisdom is to inwardly reflect on these words, think about them, turn them over, bounce them around in terms of all your other words, until the mix of all the words you've received, the instructions you've received, and all the words you have in your own experience, your own concepts that you bring, all that builds to an intensity that takes you to another level of insight, which is just the insight of being. There are three levels, hearing, reflecting and being, or listening and learning, thinking and reflecting, and just being it. These are the traditional levels of insight in Buddhism. I think also other religions have the same thing, the same layer.

[12:26]

Shuddhamaya Prajna, Chittamaya Prajna, Bhavanamaya Prajna. So, another way to talk about this is, which I like, which Dogen Zenji uses, is in terms of the near and the far. So, he's describing, in his description of thinking, he uses a koan where a Zen teacher is sitting still and a monk says to him, what are you thinking about, or what kind of thinking do you do, or what kind of thinking is it when you're sitting still? And he says, think of the unthinking, think of that which doesn't think.

[13:40]

Think, thinking is near, thinking is done up close, near, we already know how to think. Thinking is a voluntary activity. Think of that which doesn't think, something that's a little farther away, it's not necessarily far in terms of distance, but you can't reach it. So he says, don't esteem or despise the near, rather become proficient, adept at the near. Don't esteem or despise the far, rather become skillful or adept or proficient at the far. So, don't esteem your ordinary thinking,

[15:03]

don't say, this is really where it's at, but also don't despise it, say, hey, this is just ordinary conceptual thinking, this is my little prison I live in, this is trashville, this is where I have all my problems. Don't despise it, but don't esteem it either, rather become good at it, become skillful at thinking. Also, don't esteem the realm of the unknown, the realm of direct experience, the realm beyond conception. Don't esteem it, don't say, hey, that's really where it's at, but also don't say, hey, we don't need that. This is the realm of ordinary discourse, this is the realm of knowledge, I don't need to mess with the unknown, I'll be alright. Don't put it down either, rather become adept at what? At direct experience, become adept at the unthinking, become adept at unthinking. Now, how can you become adept at unthinking?

[16:08]

You have no way of knowing how to do that. It's also a kind of thing of saying, giving a voluntary and an involuntary instruction. Giving a voluntary instruction to do something, giving an instruction in the realm of the voluntary, about doing something, or related to a realm of the involuntary. And one more analogy is the story of carved dragons and real dragons. Our ordinary life of nama, our ordinary life of words is carved dragons. The realm of direct experience, the raw innocence of our organic function is the real dragon.

[17:13]

It's in that realm where dragons fly and spit fire and dive in the ocean and cause huge bubbles to come up and tidal waves. And the story about a man in China who loved dragons and had lots of carved dragons and painted dragons in his house and a real dragon found out about this man loving dragons and having all these carved dragons and decided to go visit him. And when he visited him, when he came down to his house, the man fainted to see a real dragon. But that's important. It's very important, but I think more important than the fainting

[18:20]

because you recover from the fainting. And you say, boy, that was quite a meeting I had. The important point is that the dragon comes to visit when your house is full of carved dragons. As it says in Hokyo Zanmai, it responds to the inquiring impulse, which literally could be translated as it responds to the arrival of energy. The word ki means energy or opportunity or something like that. If you carve dragons, if you think, it responds. If it actually would jump into the realm where you could see it, you would faint if you saw it because this room would turn into a swirling, ungraspable mass of illusions

[19:24]

and you'd just be wiped out by direct experience. Translated into the realm of words, images. It doesn't really come that way, but it responds. And it responds, I would say, in proportion to the fullness with which you become adept in the realm of words. If you're kind of half-hearted about it, if you don't have faith that you should be paying attention to what you're saying, to what you're thinking, to the postures you make, which are all in the realm of words, if you don't have that dedication, single-minded devotion to what you're doing, then somehow it doesn't respond as fully. So, anyway, that's how, in this chart here,

[20:35]

we start with words, with your experience. Like, for example, you have a body, right? Well, what you're talking about when you talk about your body is a word about the body. And then feelings, emotions, various tendencies, psychic tendencies and dispositions, all those, as we're aware of them, are words in our life. Then these words, in terms of, for example, these five aggregates, then the next thing he's telling you, and he's saying, okay, start with words, that's where you're at. And the next step he says, look at these six sense doors, or look at these six doors of direct experience. He's saying, now think about, first of all, tune in to the realm of words. Now think about the realm where there's no words,

[21:38]

and use words to think about the realm where there's no words. You keep referring to dedication, to knowing and unknowing, and the other part and so on. How do you mean just being mindful of the near and far? I'm not sure what you mean by dedication. Being mindful of it? Yeah, but you can't be mindful of the far. As they lead to each other, one goes to the other sometimes, you can be mindful. You can be mindful of what you just experienced, or be mindful of ways of getting to the far. You can be mindful of ways of getting to the far, yes. And you can be mindful of when you first return from the far. Okay. And, in a sense, the six sense doors are talking about

[22:50]

to think about, use words and think about the words, eye, organ, light, waves, or light energy, or light material, material which is light. Think about them. Think about the fact that they're both located. These are words to you, okay? They're words to you, words telling you, think about the eye, organ, think about some tissue someplace, someplace in the universe, where there's some tissue which is sensitive to light, and think about some light. Wherever there's light, it's always someplace. Then think about the fact that light comes in contact with this tissue, which we call the eye, organ. And then think about, in addition, that you happen to, that the person who's thinking here,

[23:51]

happens to have located right here that very tissue which this light is touching. And then think about the fact, the teaching anyway, that consciousness arises when those two touch. You're thinking about that. You're thinking about something which happens at a level where you can't think about it. But again, it's like, it's a little bit like being on the first floor of a house, talking about the basement. And a basement doesn't have any lights in it. It never has lights in a basement. Sitting on the first floor talking about the basement is not the basement, and yet, if you talk about it enough, it's almost like you psychically drill through the floor and the basement sort of comes up into the,

[24:51]

something about the basement comes up into the first floor. Now, it isn't really the basement, and yet somehow the basement gets integrated with the first floor because of thinking about the basement. And the integration is not any particularly magical feat because it actually is one house. The basement and the first floor are actually one living being, really. So it's just a separation that has to be overcome by thinking about what's on the other side of the wall, of the floor. If you actually go down the basement, you can't, you don't know the basement anymore. But if you think about the basement, somehow the basement comes up into the first floor. Not only that, but everything you think about in the first floor, it's a cockroach. Huh?

[25:53]

What? Pardon? Excuse me. I was so surprised. There it is. It's a cockroach, see? This is a cockroach on my foot, and he's getting ready to fly. Fly! Anyway, so everything that you're dealing with on the first floor is actually coming, it's supported more, of course, by the basement. All the things that you're aware of have things that are passed up from the basement. It's not only that, but depending on the way you think from the first floor, that actually has an effect on what's in the basement. The cockroach comes in the basement? Yes, it did. When you say think about the basement, you don't mean imagine what's in the basement.

[26:56]

Yeah, you imagine. Like, for example, what's in the basement is, in the basement is actually the eye organ being impacted by physical stuff. Not physical energy, but actually physicality. That happens in the basement. In other words, when that happens, when consciousness arises by that interaction, that's in the basement. That's not in the realm of knowing. You actually think about that in this thing. So, first of all, you're talking about thinking of the five skandhas, right? That can be thought of in the realm of language. Now, in the same realm of language, he says, the next step is think about the sixth sense door. He's telling you to think about something which is below the level of language, but he's telling you to think about it with language. To use the near, to use the way, to use the way you use words, to somehow,

[27:57]

to talk about around beyond words, and yet, by becoming adept at this level of words, somehow the level that you're pointing to with the words, which is beyond words, gets in it, or illuminates, or the separation between the two starts to become less operable, or something. Even though you don't ever go down there with knowledge, the realm of direct experience becomes available to the living being who usually is stuck up in the first floor, and is actually scared to death, often, of direct experience. So, what do you think? Well, last week, when we were having the pizza? When we were talking about what? The pepperonis? Yes. I thought what you were saying there was to, well, not so much for the wings,

[28:58]

as to the physical experience. Right. Like, you're seeing the contact between the organically. Right. Exactly. So, within the field of words, there's the pepperonis, which are the physical things, but when you relate to the pepperonis, you're relating to words. But those words, apparently, words which refer you to physicality, words which refer you to the level of direct experience, those words are good drilling points. So, when you're talking about the pepperonis, you go through the pepperonis, in a sense. You drill through them. That's a good spot on the surface of your mind to drill. And he's saying that. Buddha's saying that. He's saying, okay, you've got name and form, you've got all this experience, you can think about all this stuff, but he's saying, think about physicality. But you're thinking about it. But what are you thinking about? You're thinking about something that doesn't think. Physicality does not think. Even the consciousness, which arises through the dynamic interaction

[30:01]

of different qualities of physicality, even that consciousness does not think. In terms of knowable objects, it thinks, but it has no knowable knowledge, it has no knowledge of objects, it has no language. So, there are hot spots within the realm of words that are good to focus on, it looks like. Does that make sense? Yes. The next one is contact, and the same thing there. Now you're being asked again to think about something that's happening in that same realm, namely, in the realm of direct experience, organ, object, and consciousness, it's like they touch. Think about that. Again, in the realm of words, you cannot touch that, but you're initiated into that thought by those instructions,

[31:02]

and you think about those words, then you take it in, and you start reflecting on it inwardly, until you think about it in so many ways that there's only one thing left, and that is to be that way, which, fortunately or unfortunately, you already are. It's kind of like getting instructions on dancing, and then thinking about it, and thinking about it, until you've thought about it so much you can get up and dance. Or you just start dancing, or you just start being dancing. You're being, you start being, you start being the dance by reflecting on the instructions of dancing so thoroughly. And in terms of what you were saying, there's this poem by Rumi, I don't know if I said it last week, did I? Huh? Did I? The breeze at dawn, the breeze at dawn,

[32:03]

is when, is this, is this time when, when, at the door, when the sense object and the sense organ touch, the rising of the consciousness is the breeze at dawn. The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. Be mindful. You have to say what you really want. Don't go back to sleep. People are walking back and forth at the door sill where the two worlds meet. The door is round and open. Don't go back to sleep. Okay, those are more instructions on thinking about a realm where the breeze at dawn

[33:06]

can teach you. At the moment of dawn, there's two dawns. One is the rising of consciousness, the other is the dawn of the arising of concepts. And the way you think in the realm of concepts then has an influence on the realm of direct experience. Already the way we're thinking is having an effect on a direct experience. That's happening already. But the proposal is that if you start adopting other forms of thinking about your experience, you will transform your direct experience and not only that, but you will transform the relationship between your indirect conceptual experience and your perceptual experience. Rev, does this work both ways? If you... I think that if you experience something

[34:08]

and then you make concepts about it. For example, you may hear a trumpet play. And you have that experience before anybody told you what a trumpet was. They say you hear a color red before someone described it to you. But then you are now going in a direct experience to making concepts about it. You can relate it to someone else. You can think about it. What you first said... When the first thing you said, what? I say yes to. Can you say it again? Let's say the first time you hear a trumpet play, you have a direct experience. That wasn't what you said. You said direct experience can lead to conceptual experience. That's always the case. Direct experience... Well, yeah, direct experience... I shouldn't say direct experience always leads to conceptual experience, but conceptual experience has always come from direct experience. Originally. But then you can make conceptual experience based on conceptual experience. It's like the first layer. Basement feeds up to the first floor and then you make a concept. But then after that's done,

[35:09]

you can make concept on top of concept indefinitely. And that's the wonder of human mind. That's how we can write poetry and music and build skyscrapers and count to 17 and, you know... Because two is just one more than one and so on. Some people have certain experiences that they try to relate to others. The other people are not having the experience first. Or maybe they are and then unaware of it. And then the person is describing it to them. So they get a concept of how to go to the experience. Someone experiences something and they relate it to a concept in the attempt to have the other person have that experience too. Right. Okay. So... That's probably enough for now.

[36:12]

What do you think? Any questions? Yeah. And you're supposed to ask your question, John. Remember? Well, just what you said reminds me about like you were referring to imagination. It sounded like... Right. Now, is that... Would you consider, like... It almost sounded like you said that it's like another level of unreality or perceptual reality... conceptual reality. It's like an advanced level of conceptual reality. No. The initial concept is imagination too. The first concept. It's just that imagination can build towers of concepts, trains of concepts, wonderful systems of concepts. That's imagination too. But the first... The first one is... is imagination too.

[37:13]

Okay. But... another sort of... to sort of make things a little bit more complicated for you. The realm of direct experience... although it's... although it's not... there's no words there that... and there's no knowledge of objects there. That's the realm where... That's the realm that makes possible the imagination to go nuts. Because that's the realm where any... That's the realm where, you know... That's the very romantic realm. That's the realm where mountains run around and dragons dive in the water. I mean, that's the way... That's actually where... It's like that there. It's all the things you can imagine are actually sort of like that there. Except that there's no words there. There's images down there, though. Lots of images. All the images that you come up with are available there. But they aren't known.

[38:15]

They're in the dark. So, we... The stuff we build up, we just build up on stuff we build up. But, it's originally based on this stuff down there. And down there, you know, it's just all kind of like really... Oh, that's the realm of dreams, you know. So, that's also the realm of fantasy. And sort of the ground or the source of our imagination is down there. But the actual process of building this stuff in words, that happens immediately. Every moment of experience has that. Every moment of knowable experience has imagination in it. That's imaging. Are you referring, like, to, like, the collective unconscious or something? You know, like, primordial experiences of, like, all the ancient suffering that's gone on for eons and all the ancient, great, you know, weird things that... And all the present suffering that's going on right now, it's all there in direct experience.

[39:16]

It's all there. All the data's there. And it's all causing what's happening to happen now. And so, the only way to be free of it is to go through all of that. It's all... See it all as... what it is. The only way to be free of it is to be intimate with it. And... And the way we become intimate with it is to think about it. But, how do you think about something totally ungraspable and something that's not even in the realm of thinking? Not in the realm of thinking. Well, we work at thinking. We think and [...] think. We think very... in all possible ways that we can think. We think. Until that intensity, that total exertion of the thinking also totally exerts the unthinking. And the realm of direct experience

[40:17]

where all... which is the interconnectedness also of all the causes and effects of the universe and all the living beings totally at one and interconnected and causing each other, that realm is then also thoroughly penetrated and thoroughly lived in the way it's lived. It's not lived in the way that we live up here. But we're not going to be able to live down there thoroughly if we loaf up here. That's what you meant by cart dragons in relation to... Yes. Right. ...in relation to... Right. Right now, right now, if we're practicing right now, if right now we're practicing Buddhism, if right now we're trying to be mindful and honest and generous and patient and concentrated and insightful, if we're doing that in the realm of words to our utmost, which is just a little cart dragon and...

[41:18]

there's a big dragon up there. And not only that, but what the big dragon causes, the huge plumes of clouds and rain and storm that go around the dragon, they happen the same way from our little carving as they do for it. But we have to make an effort. We have to be enthusiastic about our thinking. If we're half-hearted about our thinking, well, where are we going to be thoroughly... where are we going to work thoroughly? You know, we have to work thoroughly with what we've got right now. Even though it's just a little thing, we work completely thoroughly with it. And the faith is, by working thoroughly with this, so thoroughly that there's no self even in grasp here. So when you first start doing this meditation

[42:23]

on name and form, you still may be able to grasp a self. But as you intensify your meditation on your experience, you look more carefully, you more and more have difficulty grasping a self. You realize the total exertion of your experience does not allow also bringing a self to it. So again, in the realm of words, Zen teacher Dogen says, when you come to practice, when you come to practice and confirm your experience of your name and form, okay, when you come to think, when you come to use words, if you carry a self with you, that's just more delusion and you're not going to experience the great supplementary beneficence of your total mind. But, if you, if there's just a total exertion of what's happening and things are

[43:24]

just happening by just advancing forward and things are, words are advancing forward and confirming the words and there is total exertion and total exertion of words as they happen, in that space there is integration. There isn't even the possibility of hoping for something or trying to achieve something in this total exertion. Unless the effort, unless the total, unless what was happening was just that you were trying to achieve something, the name, in other words, the name of the experience would be I'm trying to get something, I'm trying to attain something, I'm trying to be something, well that's fine, it's a perfectly good word, or set of words and the total exertion of that with no self being brought to it, just that event happening, that miraculous thing of those words happening, if that's all that's happening, that's what we call enlightenment. Which means

[44:25]

that there is a deftness or proficiency at the near and the far comes to visit. It responds to every little tit, every little tit, there's a path. Never, it's never not that way, it's always that way, but when you do your tit, when you do your little thing, when you make your little carving, your little gesture, your little sound, your little thinking, your little voice, when you do that with total faith that this is what you should be working on, then there is a response, moment by moment. It's somehow, you can't experience it by knowing it, but you can experience it, but it's not like something you know about, but yet it illuminates your life. Now,

[45:28]

ask your question. Well, I have a couple of questions. Ask the one you just put there. Okay, is this, do you call this a meditation? Yeah. Jinshu. Sort of like it's called, translated as Guidelines to Practicing the Way, or Points to Watching Practicing the Way. There's ten points, and the tenth point, he says, that you must practice with this body and mind. Nama Rupa. You can say five skandhas, Nama Rupa, whatever. Anyway, he's saying very definitely, in Zen, you have to practice with Nama Rupa.

[46:30]

Now, tell me a usual instruction that you hear in Zen, and I'll translate it into this for you. What practices do you think people do in Zen meditation? What's that? Is that Nama Rupa? It's a name. It's a name, and it's a name of what? Of a form. Breathing is a form, right? You understand that it's a form? To me, breathing, breath, doesn't have form. So, it's a verb. Verbs don't have form. Yeah, so, step number one is, unless, if you want to hear this,

[47:32]

is, you experience that, first of all, statically. In other words, in a moment, it's not a verb, in the sense that it's doing anything. Verbs are, as you experience verbs fundamentally, verbs are words which are talking about an action, okay? But there's no movement. It's static. That's the initial entry point. Uh, well, I think you have to be a little more fundamental to me. I mean, it's all sitting there, right? And so, what is the entry point I'm aware of? Yeah, at first, you're aware of the breath at a particular point, right? It's not all over the place. You can think about breath, you can have a, a concept of breath that's all over the place, but you can't experience breath all over the place, because you don't have sense organs that are all over the place.

[48:33]

Your sense organs are located. Well, I assume that one would be touch. Like, touch? Or, it's not, it's supposed to be touch, it's not supposed to be sound, right? Uh, I feel like I can hear myself breathing. Yeah, but you're not supposed to. No. You're supposed to breathe gently through your nose. No. quietly. You're not supposed to be, you can't hear, you can't hear your breath, though. But mostly, it's tactile, right? But, it's not tactile all over the place tactile. It's tactile someplace. Where? Here? Where else could it be? Here. Here? Yeah. Here. Be here? Where else could it be? It can be all over you.

[49:34]

It can be all over your body. You can feel it, all over your body, by touch. But that shows that actually, that, that, that partly shows you that actually, even when you feel your breath, here, you're not actually having a direct physical experience, you are having a direct physical experience, but what you're aware of is a concept of it. That when you know the breath as something you know, even though you know it in a location, and you're knowing it, is based on the breath being some place and effect. It's based on, on mechanical waves of air and gases and stuff touching a certain surface called the skin. That's the basis of this, but when you know it, you're dealing with it as a concept. Because of that, you can feel your breath throughout your entire body. You can actually feel it on the same level.

[50:35]

Because you're feeling it here conceptually, you can feel it throughout your entire body conceptually. But the basis of it in direct experience is the breath is at a place. So you start, it's good to start with the breath at a place. Because you're actually starting to think about the realm of direct experience that leads to you being able to think about it. And when it's at a place, it's not moving, it's at that place. Okay? That is meditating on Nama Rupa. At that time when you're doing it, the breath is the object of awareness. A knowable object of awareness. And, it is a concept. Now there is another level at which you're breathing and experiencing your breath which is not conceptual. But, not but,

[51:38]

and the wonderful, the wonderful news from me to you is that by meditating, by being aware of the concept you have of your breath, and also that concept of your breath, I would suggest, you could, I would, I'll tell you later. Anyway, by being aware of the concept of your breath, you are illuminated by the direct experience of breathing which is very encouraging to living beings. It's actually kind of like where it's at, so to speak. Illuminated. It's like, or another way to put it is it's like you get this, you get this care package. An ineffable care package comes to you,

[52:39]

a bliss, which comes to you because you have, it's like it responds, your effort of being aware of this little carved dragon, this carved dragon of your breath, right? It's not your breath, but it's your breath in knowable terms. It's your little carved dragon of your breath. By being aware of this little carved dragon of breath, the real breath comes to visit. It's already there happening all the time and yet it comes to visit you. You somehow, somehow it comes into your life. It's like you become illuminated but it's not illuminated through the eyes, it's illuminated basically through not being separated from it anymore. You start dancing with it. So that's the blessedness

[53:39]

of mindfulness of breath at the level of concepts and words is that by that effort the actual breath which is something which is also located but is connected to all living beings at that level and is a great bliss that comes to us. And now what I didn't say before is there are different ways to conceptually work with your breath. There are different types of carved dragons to make. Okay? And we're suggesting a certain type of carved dragon. In other words we're not saying that you imagine breath is generally all over the place. That's not the instructions. The instructions are imagine the breath as being in a certain place. Now this place or this place is a concept of it but it actually is some place so it's good to

[54:40]

it's good to make it having a place. When you think about it think about it being in a place. That helps you realize and bring into your life the actual breathing process. But since you asked a question I wanted to know are you following me? Are you getting off any place? No, I'm sitting here wondering I don't know what's the use of what's the use of it. You know, this is the only breath I know and the only breath I'm ever capable of knowing as I understand it. So I really don't understand the use of all this shadow breath. It reminds me a lot I keep thinking of the Greeks that existed about the same time who talked like this and I never really know the mere shadow of reality.

[55:40]

It seems to me a similar kind of thing. Okay, so what's the use? There's many uses there's many uses but the primary use is that we're saying this is the mere shadow of what's happening. However I think I prefer to turn around the other way though. This is actually the realm of lights and there's this huge shadow realm all around. Anyway, whichever way you want to do it this is a mere this is a small scale version this is a pared down for human consumption version of reality that we're living in. Okay? It is reality in knowable form. Reality is not generally speaking conceivable. But there is a little section of reality which is totally in communication with the rest of reality

[56:41]

which is knowable. It's a shadow or it's actually not a shadow it's more like a light show. It's more like a spectacular little tiny version of it. Okay? We're trying actually to say this is although this is just a small version of what's really happening you must take it very sincerely. Not so much seriously but sincerely. In other words your little breath is all you've got and you should become adept at it. So again don't esteem it don't say hey this is where it's at it's just a mere shadow it's just a carved dragon but also don't despise it don't... Okay.

[58:12]

Patience or the obstruction between that realm and the bigger realm or the total realm are removed. And you experience what we call total life or real life or awakening. So this is supposed to inspire and then the use of awakening is that once we're awakened then we can somehow I think be more helpful what the belief is and what we've seen is that you can be more effective in helping people in this world of suffering. You yourself are much better off and you have a lot more energy and clarity about how to help others which is also a great joy. There seems to be that connection sometimes when I've thought I've had that experience it's almost momentary.

[59:39]

When you have what experience? Of connecting up with reality let's say through your breath you're feeling just a little touch and then you can like you say you feel connected with what may be happening but then your mind stops working and you lose it and you're back to constantly so it seems almost you say you can make change when you're thinking about things it seems it's almost a momentary experience yeah right but the concept starts to work again and then you're back out yes you're in the realm of concept you want to say what was that? that's how fast you go back and find out yeah you go back and find out and also the point is that the realm of concept is not destroyed by these experiences it is actually the access and it is the access and place that is realized but the concepts sometimes take you out again because they work because they work again the concept

[60:40]

the concepts will take you out if you go from the experience of being of total exertion of the concept to then basically again kind of loafing and not totally exerting the next concept that often happens though because it's sort of a jolt to get encouraged and then people get encouraged and they say oh wait a minute I can't handle this so they go back to a small scale version of having concepts it's not that you go back to concepts it's you go back to not really being with your concepts you stop being you kind of you get excited and it becomes a pitfall as we say so you can't hesitate either you hesitate or you get excited and you get that Harrisburg deviation but it's not that you're back in the realm of concepts it's that by not hesitating and not getting excited about your concepts by not despairing

[61:42]

or praising your concepts simply work with your words work with your conceptual experience just simply work it work it work it and you will be illuminated at the time of illumination again there's an opportunity to hesitate or get excited if you do that it's not that you're back in the realm of concepts it's that you're not dealing with them properly again so there is a slight disturbance that often occurs to people at the time of illumination so it's very important at the time of illumination to keep sitting still to continue your effort so it doesn't knock you off usually the first time it happens to people they get knocked off yes in the hallway upstairs by the building there's prism

[62:42]

hanging in the window and when I see light reflected through prism I always think you know it's just that brief flash of color and I always think that's how Buddhism see light all the time because the light that creates and I can no more describe the color that's reflecting that rainbow from the prism I couldn't tell you what it is because it's clear and translucent and has no material but I always think that when sometimes when we talk about a way to be human and to see reality I always think they must see light in that way so when I see the color from the prism it's very momentary it's very quick it reminds me of the experience of that contact and I know that that's also a contact I'm not trying to say

[63:44]

that that's not that it's just it's almost indescribable to say the clear crystal color that's come out of the prism I can't and yet I see it and it gives me such a point but it becomes also and you can't I often walk down the hall and try and hold the prism so it'll make the rainbow and it doesn't work if I try to hold onto it my hand locks the light and then analogously when we came to see the community we were talking a lot about what that would see in what century it struck me that you said if we could see how this rainbow would work it would become more chaotic and if my eyes could always see light as it actually is with all those colors I could tolerate it and I always come for it but the minute I

[64:45]

go for it it doesn't work but before you go for it sometimes you just look at the light and and you experience beauty so you're illuminated because by simply looking at the light by totally exerting looking at the light which is still in the realm of concepts maybe this other world is shining forth but I think it's not so much that that Buddhas see the realm of direct experience because nobody sees that that is simply direct experience of seeing we do that too it's just that the Buddha is constantly supported by and not separate from that but they're still living right up here in the realm but however when they look at those lights they probably look at them like you do at that time

[65:45]

which is actually an ordinary way of looking it's just that because you're so concentrated you experience happiness and it's not even necessarily even pleasant a sensation it could be but it's not even necessarily a pleasure in the sense of positive sensation but you're simply concentrated but again if you try to see the thing you're a little bit ahead of it you're what do you call it that's called praising the near it's esteeming you don't esteem it also you don't despise it you're not lazy about your perceptual process you keep abreast of what's happening and don't do any more than that that allows illumination from the unknown part of your sensory process which is constantly feeding you anyway but our laziness

[66:48]

is what kind of cuts us off from the totality of our moment by moment experience and partly our laziness is due to our lack of faith you don't start you don't start with trying to get people to stop being lazy you start with faith you try to inspire people to not be lazy so if you have strong enough faith you can have the courage to really you know walk down the hall and take care of each step and then sometimes you see a crystal and you're just in the mode of doing what you're doing keeping abreast of your activities and so you just see the colors and that's it and what a you know what a relief just to see the colors and it's not just that you're relieved from doing more than seeing the colors or less than seeing the colors on top of that you get this you know reconnection

[67:48]

with you know the whole of your life so the one the bringing a self to your experience is extra and undermining bringing a self means to esteem or despise your experience to say hey this is really good or this isn't good enough to deserve my attention that's a kind of a self to bring or I'm having this experience even is too much to really become adept at your experience so you don't bring a self and just not bringing a self to your experience is already a big relief then when then things start just happening and then in addition to the relief of not bringing a self it causes a lot of suffering in addition to that you get the happiness of reconnection with this realm this primordial this primitive level of experience which is so satisfying and then that protects us

[68:50]

from all kinds of further trouble we get ourselves into because we're satisfied we feel satisfied what do we feel satisfied with? experience experience is enough good enough but experience somehow isn't good enough unless we make effort catch up with it be there for it well I was this question of how this is somewhat in practice we do here yes I'm not sure I guess I'm more narrowly interested in Dogen what Dogen which I'm not sure is the same thing of course I've been quoting Dogen well does Dogen say somewhere that you should follow your breath? does he recommend following your breath? not too much no I don't think he does well he does a little bit but not much right

[69:52]

well okay I'm not I'm not convinced that Dogen recommends following the breath he does he does well he says he says in all of the meditation manuals practically he says inhale and exhale and he mentions to you to breathe through your nose well he doesn't also he also doesn't say be mindful of your posture doesn't say that either he says sit up straight so he tells you to do something called breathe through your nose in other words he tells you to do what you're going to do anyway just to keep your mouth shut but he doesn't say follow the breathing except in one text he says to follow the breathing and in an earlier version of Fukunzan Zen he said to follow the breath but he's not actually telling you to do regular atarabata breath mindfulness of breath but he's definitely telling you to totally exert everything that you're experiencing right

[70:52]

which in other words is a sort of different I'm feeling a little bit in something of what you said right in the sense that in other words you seem like you're perhaps concentrating on the breath okay well why not I'm just saying if you are mindful of your breathing okay that's that is if you're practicing mindfulness of your breathing then you should totally exert that if you're practicing mindfulness of your posture you should totally exert that or you should totally exert both but the point is you just totally exert whatever you're experiencing okay but that's that's what I'm getting at that's not necessarily there's this little bit of a conflict it seems like in a way and that for some people it is quite natural and it's quite spontaneous and it is quite himself to be quite interested in the six doors in the six senses and you know the six senses and so on and how they meet and how they contact and this is an expression of itself and if that somewhat spontaneously comes up for you

[71:53]

that seems like to me in other words Dogen's instruction is to follow whatever more or less spontaneously comes up for you which is different I mean for some people it is different because they're interested in getting more into their thoughts getting more into analysis of what's going on whereas other people are more interested in thinking about how much they hate their mother or love their mother or whatever and so it seems like to me that you know with the six doors there's a somewhat more narrow practice than what Dogen recommends it seems like Dogen is recommending you know pay attention to yourself to whatever comes up for you yes he is but he's also a disciple of Buddha right so here's a Buddha talk so what's Buddha's teaching got to do with what Dogen's saying Dogen says he doesn't just say he didn't just

[72:53]

say take care of and be aware of whatever's coming up for you he didn't just say that he did say that though that's true he said as I said he said be mindful of the five skandhas he says that which means simply be mindful of whatever's coming up for you if you're thinking about your mother if you're thinking about a fly in your nose if you're thinking about your breath if you're thinking about your posture that's what you should be working on if you're being mindful of your breathing then that's what you should be working on you should totally do that but he doesn't usually specify what you're supposed to be doing he doesn't usually do that right you haven't heard him say that so much but this idea of working on something seems somewhat contrary to what you decided to work on no he does say to work on something he says he says thousands of

[73:54]

times he says study these words he says a sentence he says study that sentence he assigns meditation topics he doesn't say just he says be aware of whatever is coming up he does say that in other words just use your five skandhas whatever your five skandhas are do that but he also assigns definite topics which may not be interesting to you he assigns lots of little sentences and he tells you study this thoroughly he says study this a thousand ten thousand times study this sentence he says you should quietly reflect on this sentence he assigns words for you to meditate on but that is in the context of coping with and dealing with whatever is coming up so now if I tell you if I'm Dogen I say study this phrase and then you say well how should I do it and I'll say should I just

[74:55]

study that phrase and when a bird sings not paying attention to it no everything that happens to you that's what you're working with but I also told you to study this phrase and one of the phrases he tells you to study is think of the unthinking he says that too that is the essential art of zazen it is the it is for penetration it is for breaking through it is for breaking out of the little world and getting in contact with the huge world so for those kind of breakthrough instructions he says think about in other words in the realm of words think about what's beyond words he says that in the fukan zazen remember think of the unthinking it's also translated think to a place beyond

[75:56]

thinking and unthinking which is a little different it's really a bad translation he doesn't say that at all but even if you do think to a place beyond thinking and unthinking that's what these six doors are you don't have to say six doors but these are in the realm which is the unthinking so I'm actually saying that this Dogen's teaching isn't aligned with this even though he may not use his language but there are places where he talks about this stuff but he says you start with your five skandhas that's what you start with that's always what you're dealing with in the realm of knowledge and then in the realm of five skandhas he gives you words that you're supposed to look at and one of the ways he wants you to look at words is to look beyond words or look to the source of words look where the words come from where do they come from? they come from direct experience because I

[76:56]

go why did you somehow come up with a word? the words are coming from your direct experience you're making out of direct experience words so look where the words come from he says that too that's what Buddha's saying too he says look where these words come from get down to these experiences look in that direction when you hear a word you should understand its source when you're dealing with a concept when you're dealing with a conceptual level you should understand the perceptual level that the conceptual level is coming from he's saying that all Zen teachers are saying that Buddha's saying that you don't have to do six doors meditation to think of those words but this is a stylized version of all those meditations but first step is where are you at now? static analytic presence breath your mother

[77:57]

whatever you're doing that's what you start with but that's not all then you then you go deeper but you don't have to think of that if you don't want to you naturally will do that if you just concentrate on one thing that will happen to you too so you can choose a meditation topic and totally exert it and that will take you down to that level or bring that level into your life or you can actually think about that that kind of stuff and that will also do it I just want to make a little comment because when you were talking about do not esteem or despise anything it really might say reminded me of the expression do not make any judgments or against anything make any judgments on heaven and earth or set apart one of those guys but it was so clear when he said that as soon as you do that you really separate yourself

[78:59]

from the void and we do that so we should do that real thoroughly so thoroughly that we the rest of it responds to us and responds in a real embracing way but we don't have to stop doing what we're doing we just have to do what we're doing more thoroughly more wholeheartedly more sincerely and in order to do that we have to you know do all the practices wholesome practices and generosity practices and all the stuff you have to do in order to really do what you're doing you have to do a lot to yourself to do what you're doing because what we're doing is really everything we're doing so we have to be really enthusiastic about our activities I said thank goodness

[80:00]

that it worked that way yes thank you goodness it seems to me that if you just get a spark it's very encouraging but if you actually get a wide open door it tends to create a tremendous amount of despair after it's closed yeah and you know what despair means splitting right that's literally what would happen and but the one who closes it is the one who tries to grasp experience so whenever whenever people first encounter how wonderful everything is there's a strong possibility that they'll reflex and try to make that into something they can get a hold of and that often is really bad if they close the door if you want to another way to put it is you

[81:00]

make that kind of thing you make you you make the gift into a thing and the greatest gift is that things lack inherent existence that's the most wonderful gift of all you're actually not only get initiated into the realm of direct experience but the realm of direct experience then shows you that everything lacks inherent existence because everything's working together in such a way that nothing there's no entity and that shows you the inherent lack of existence which is really even more wonderful gift than direct experience and people can't stand that and they get into a thing and that turns into the worst possible monster and that's why we need friends to practice with because other people can see that you're doing fine you just made a little slip there and again

[82:01]

words are very important so we meet in two weeks right? or in the last class with the true merit of Buddha's way all Buddhas can directions be kind all beings will be suffered must suffer all being be beyond wisdom Mahaprajna

[83:03]

Hari Gau [...]

[83:10]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ