Like we have in our life, you know? It's another one of those times. As you all know, right? It's another one. This is a time towards the end of a practice period. It's today and tomorrow and then have our closing ceremony. So there's a... my intent to think about that. The intent to think about three months together. And how does it feel? To have done this... this time of practice together. So I... in one sense... I... in one sense we're all thinking about that and in another sense I thought, well, let's get together in this room and sit down and think about it all together at once.

[01:12]

Let's all together, like, recognize that we are all doing that. We're all feeling what it's like to be here just a little while longer and having practiced together so intensely for almost 90 days. And again, I'm just saying things that everybody knows, right? But just to sort of, on your behalf, to say it for all of us that it's rare that a group of people spend this much time together and then can sit there and think about what it has been, that we've done this, that we've shared this in this lifetime. So just to note that at the beginning of this class. And to tell you also that in some sense I was thinking not to have a class, just the regular wonderful morning of the monastery of going through the sitting is another way to feel it, but somehow to speak for you, to say,

[02:37]

that we're all feeling our last moments together and also not trying to... we're also probably trying to stay fresh, right? We're in this dilemma of feeling the whole practice period at the same time feeling today and at the same time intending to think of tomorrow. This is our situation, I guess. Also, I can present more material or not. I'm ready to discuss the next two aspects of the Eightfold Path, Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration. But I'm also willing to go another way if you'd like to, like, something anybody wants to bring up now, here, since we don't have any other meetings planned.

[03:41]

except for our regular silent meetings and vegetarian feasts and services. We don't have any other planned forums or discussions. So if anyone wants to bring something up now, questions from those disharmonious, disharmonious, there you go, disharmonious talks that I gave. Well, that's good. That's good that you point that out. It's good. Because they are disharmonious. It is disharmonious to tell people that it's, you know, that right effort means not to go to the movies, not to go to sporting events, not to read the newspaper, not to, you know, not to blah blah, not to, not to, not to, not to. All that stuff that people use to waste time, right effort is not, is abandoning that time-wasting activity. That's controversial. That's disharmonious with the world.

[04:43]

Yeah. Huh? No, I just look at the cartoons. Well, for me, obviously I'm doing it for the benefit of all beings. That's the only reason I look at those cartoons and I get lots of encouragement from my talks. I share them with you often, don't I? I used to go, huh? What? You have it? No. Has anybody else ever heard me share my New Yorker records? Out in the world. I share them. Also, I used to have those, what do you call it, far side things. Those far side things, that snack area there. Calendar. Snack calendar? That was my calendar. Far side calendar. What did I say? I said far side things. So, I used to read those and share them in lectures.

[05:46]

Like, one of the important ones that I shared was that one where, you know, I was talking about, basically, Buddhist practice is like learning a new trick, right? And I shared that one about the dog going over the tightrope, you know, a dog riding a bicycle, you know, and he's carrying piled chairs and balancing various cats and so on. is that, you know, the crowd was hushed and Omar thought to himself, I'm a dog and this is a new trick. I'm an old dog and this is a new trick. So, anyway, that's... The question is, when you go to the movies, do you really go to the movies out of an intention to benefit beings?

[06:50]

Is that really why you're going? Do you really feel like people want you to go to the movies? Really? Huh? Some people do. The people who made the movie want you to go. And if that's your spirit, I'm going to this movie? because those people want me to go if that's the reason you're going fine and you remember that through the whole movie. How about if I go if I want Daigon to go to the movie because I want to see the movie. Daigon can be a pure monk because he's got you and I've got Rusa. I can do practically anything with her. Like shopping! I hate shopping! No way do I go shopping for any other reason than to benefit beings. That's the only reason I go. And you know, I wonder if I do, but I think I do. I think when I go shopping that all that suffering is worth it. I hate it. And a lot of other men do too.

[07:51]

They have these little chairs, you know, for us to sit in. Just sit down there, you'll be okay. I go into the store and as soon as I get done, my knees start getting weak. I do not do it for fun. I never go shopping by myself. I only go shopping with all beings. So my basic practice is no shopping. That's my practice, but I go shopping with all beings. So all these practices are a waste of time if you're not doing them for benefiting others. If you're doing them for yourself, they're a waste of time. You might have some questions about that, but I just explained that one, right? Now you're all set, right? So go to it for the benefit of all beings. Go shopping to buy presents for your little nieces and nephews or whatever, you know, or your kids. go shopping, throw yourself into the marketplace for the benefit of all beings, fine, but to go shopping without that intention, to miss the opportunity, to go shopping with that spirit, that wonderful loving spirit of generosity and willingness to enter hell for the benefit of others, why miss the opportunity?

[09:02]

That's a waste of time, you're wasting an opportunity to make shopping into an act of your Bodhisattva vow. Why forget that? No need to. And sometimes if you remember, you won't go. But you can still do these things if that's the spirit. We come into this world of duality. We bodhisattvas, to go into these situations to help. But to miss that chance and just to go shopping for selfish reasons or just to go to a movie, that's a waste of time. That is a waste of time. And right effort is to abandon those wastes of time and use this precious opportunity right now. Yes. I have a few questions about coffee. And there's a part of the book about fermentation. And it's difficult to see through and be stable with what is fermentation when there's a mixture

[10:09]

For example, for myself, part of me really clearly feel like just simple closing it up, that's fine. But another part is really trying to express myself through that. So your destination could be a way to hide from your own fears. That's a wonderful question. Good work by the Rudy. Well, could we stop on that one for now? You get another question. That was very good, very good. Renunciation is not to renounce the things you'd rather not deal with. So for you renunciation might mean that you become a fashion plate. You know? That you get out there and you learn how to dress in a way that is a real statement of what you think is the clothes that are appropriate for you to wear.

[11:22]

For example, to say I'm dressing in this monastic outfit right now and I'm actually putting this on and I'm wearing this and I'm wearing this in this way and I'm taking care of my raksha in this way, this is a presentation here. To avoid recognizing that everything you do is a presentation is not renunciation, it's denial. Renunciation is to present yourself in whatever clothes you have on and then forget about it. And then if people say, would you take off your monastic outfit for the benefit of all beings? You say, no problem. Would you dress like a pauper to help people? No problem. Would you dress like a rich woman to help people? No problem. I'd love to. I want to dress in whatever way is helpful, but whatever way you do dress, you decide that according to your own judgment of what's appropriate at the moment, and that is your statement. And you're making quite a statement every time you do that, and it's good to be aware that we are saying, I'm wearing these clothes. I'm wearing this face, basically.

[12:27]

So renunciation is not to sort of stop paying attention to the face you're presenting and stop keeping track of whether you, you know, what you've done with your face. If you don't shave your face, that's something you've decided to do. If you do shave it, you're presenting yourself, every time you're always presenting yourself, and that's where dharma is transmitted, face to face. Face to face means dharma is transmitted in the meeting between beings where beings are aware that they're presenting themselves, you're there, you have a face, you have clothes, it's all part of the same thing. is what actually enables you to really present yourself with full presence. If you're holding on to anything that interferes with your presentation it's when you renounce your presentation that you can really do it. So part of what is possible as a result of monastic training I think is that monks can really present themselves because

[13:30]

They've renounced self-concern by the practice so they can really like be a weird monk or a happy monk or a Liz monk. Yeah. And sometimes if it's difficult to tell the difference then I would say present your difficulty to somebody like you just did. And if you have a trouble telling when you're trying to when you're running away from something the difference when you're running away from something and renouncing something I'd be happy to hear. cases where you're not sure probably after a few interchange a few back and forth we can clear it up which it is it doesn't it isn't that hard sometimes to find out once you start talking to somebody about it who is like into the same game you know who's into the self-deception unveiling the unveiling of self-deception game that's our game right? okay now you get to your next question is that okay? answer? So you've got to work on this with people. Yeah.

[14:59]

Can you hear her? I think you're getting a little quiet. Could you hear anything that she said? What? Speak louder, please. As you spoke about choosing the life of a monster, I felt something in you that was giving you this beautiful choice to allow this moment of being fully committed like an adult. But I also thought that danger, if there is something you think you wanted to do that you're not going to do, The monastery answers everything and no it doesn't. Yeah, right.

[16:20]

The monastery answers everything. No, it doesn't. The life of a monk is to deal with the monastery in the appropriate way. So, when we say the life of the monk is right effort, the life of the monk is right thinking. The life of monk means that the monk meets the authority in upright way, neither identifying with the authority nor separated from the authority. That's the life of the monk. The life of the monk is to meet the traditional forms, to practice them, without identifying with them or separating from them. This is our challenge. How do you not identify with the tradition, not identify with the forms, and not separate from them? This is our thing. Some people identify with them, we see that that type of person, they have those problems. Other people separate from them. So either resisting the tradition, resisting the authority. The life of the monk is to work with that resistance until you drop the resistance, which means you drop yourself.

[17:21]

And dropping the resistance doesn't mean you submit to the tradition. It doesn't mean you rebel. It means you don't need to do either. You find the non-duality between yourself and the tradition. Non-duality. You're not the same, you're not different. That's the life of a monk. That does answer everything. when you find that non-duality. Then you should be able to walk out of this monastery and do the same thing in the marketplace, to meet each person in the marketplace with that non-dual face-to-face meeting. You are not me, I'm exactly you. This is the way we meet people all over the world and this is a training place for that. Or we're out front saying that's what we're training here for. Some of us will stay in the monastery a good share of our lives, others will train here and go back into the marketplace and share, hopefully, the fruit of this kind of concentrated study with the city. You can develop concentration, mindfulness, and effort here, some power, actual strength in your practice you can develop here that you cannot develop out in the city.

[18:26]

But there's challenges to our compassion and patience out there that we don't have here. So most of us need to do both. Monks need to do on pilgrimage too. When a monk goes on pilgrimage, a monk leaves the monastery. When most people go on pilgrimage, they leave the marketplace and come to the monastery. Everybody needs to circulate. Nobody can be sure that they're not getting stuck where they are. Some people have to do one kind, some people have to do another, but everybody, I think, has to I just think everybody's accepted, maybe there's some other tradition, but anyway in the Mahayana you have to renounce, you have to renounce yourself, clean. This is an opportunity. Okay, let's see, so one, two, but you were next. I wonder, from your experience, if you could give some do's and don'ts to people re-entering, coming from this situation. I don't know what to expect from the transition.

[19:33]

And I sort of planned several events. And when I was talking to Clara, I said, well, what are you going to do? And she said, well, I'm going to go on lots of walks on the beach. And that sounded good. But I'm wondering what works, what doesn't, what turns people off. Okay, so I was going to… one possibility is to talk about right mindfulness, right, today. And so this fits right into like leaving Tassajara to practice right mindfulness when you leave. Say, God, you have some level of energy. In one sense you might be tired, in another sense you might have a lot of spiritual energy. So when you leave here, you're bringing a lot out there.

[20:34]

When you see the city again, it may seem very vivid to you. Not only is it holiday season, but even if it wasn't, you might find it very vivid and very colorful to look at. Right, mindfulness is to continue to continue the practice of mindfulness that you've been doing here. So just like you walk around here being aware of your body, you know? You're aware of your body. You're aware of your body means you're aware of your bodily posture. It means also you're aware of seeing colors, of hearing sounds, of smelling, and of tasting. but also the physical touch of the body to the body and the earth and the body with the body. This kind of physical mindfulness which you practice in the monastery, then you think about before you leave here, I have a certain commitment, I'm going to make a vow now about trying to practice, you could say this, I'm going to make a vow to try to continue practicing mindfulness as I go out of here and I get hit by this flood

[21:52]

of color and sound and smell and so on. And maybe some postures where I have to sit and lean back in cars and stuff like that. I haven't been leaning against anything for three months. I've been sitting up straight, not leaning back in chairs for three months. Now, I sort of have to lean back in a car seat, so I'm gonna try to stay mindful. So this is the first, mindfulness of body when you go out there. Then you might then next move to mindfulness of feelings. You might notice lots of feelings may come up. When you start to smell these smells, you know, those colorful holiday smells, you know, you may have some positive sensations or you may have some negative sensations with some of these things too. Now all these feelings come up. So again, you start to stay mindful. Not to forget to be mindful. These feelings are happening to me now. And then various states may come over you of consciousness. Moving on to the next mindfulness foundation, so body, feelings, and then general qualities of consciousness.

[23:03]

Now, if you practice the first two, the general qualities of consciousness, I don't know what they'll be like, but they'll probably stay fairly alert for a while. If you lose the first two, then you'll probably get into sort of heavy, depressed states. from overeating, taking in too much stimulation, stuff like that, that's likely to happen when you leave here. So in that case, maybe you can still, even though you've lost mindfulness of your body and feelings, at least you might be aware, well, I'm in, you know, I'm in a stupor here or whatever. But anyway, that kind of mindfulness too. And then getting into the most subtle form of mindfulness, the mindfulness of Dharma, takes us back to our basic, which we've been talking about over and over here during the practice period, you're back in the land of being aware of your actual more detailed experience of the five aggregates. So you're experiencing, you know, again, feeling body, body sensations, feeling sensations, but also getting into like your conceptions, your emotions, all this stuff.

[24:09]

You're studying the five skandhas, your mindfulness of the five skandhas, they're out in the world. Whatever kind of event you have to go to, whatever parties or feasts you have to go to or that you feel would be beneficial to go to, if you get invited to things and you think, now, will it actually help them if I go? Well, then go. Like somebody told me recently, he was invited to a party and he thought he didn't want to go, actually. The reason why he didn't want to go is there were some people there he didn't like. Well, I said, do you think it would have benefited them if you'd gone? He said, well, yes, I think it would have benefited them. the next time you can go. So if you get invited to things and you really feel like not going would be in some ways let people down or make it difficult for them in a way that might not be beneficial well then and going would maybe help them then maybe you have to go to some of these parties where you're going to be confronted with all this color and smell and touch and taste and body and mind and it's going to come at you and you have to deal with it and to go there part of the reason why you might think it'd be beneficial is you might think it might be beneficial for me to go there and practice

[25:16]

to go there and be present with these people and to bring some sense of presence and compassion. And I might not be able to do it but it's possible I would do it and if I could do it that would be helpful so maybe I will go and try to practice that way. So this is a great opportunity but very challenging because not everybody is supporting your effort in that way but that's the opportunity. I just want to say again to sort of loop the circle because someone brought this up with me today is that towards the beginning of practice period when I was pointing out that basically the Four Noble Truths come into view clearly, they become clear, they come forward and like are standing there right in front of you when the outflows wane, when the outflows back off, when the waves die back. from the body and mind, then you see clearly the beach, you know?

[26:20]

And the little Four Noble Truths just stand right up and say, �Hi!� And so we were just talking about these outflows and how to meditate on these outflows in such a way that they back away. So I thought it might be good to sort of again bring us back to the awareness of the floods again as now opportunities for that will become very available because lots of things will happen to you. Maybe some things you're not so familiar with for the last three months. Okay? So mindfulness here is very, very key ingredient, right? Mindfulness now. And this is in the realm of mindfulness of the outflows. Okay? So what happens is that some duality arises in the mind, in our mind, some duality arises, like the duality between self and other, okay?

[27:25]

And as that duality arises, that self-other, and as there's a kind of a sense that the self and other are actually like two, really two, that this apparent separation is real, as soon as that happens, some pain comes up. If we stay present with that pain, right away, there's no outflow. We're staying right with the basic pain of duality. There's no outflow at that point. There's just, in fact, there is pain with duality. As soon as the mind has any duality and it hurts, we have these great minds that hurt when there's duality. And if you're right there with that root pain, the outflows have not occurred yet. However, if we can't stay present with that, and we're often not that much at the root of our dual thinking, then what happens is various feelings come up around, in addition to that basic thing, various other feelings arise around that separation.

[28:39]

Feelings of pain and pleasure. Pleasure can arise there too, right at the same time. And then, as a result of the pain or pleasure infused by this basic pain, which we have trouble facing, then what happens is there is a further difficulty in staying with what's happening. Let me go over that again. There is a basic pain that arises from duality. But that little kind of like, that little vibration there that's set up from that basic duality, it starts to stir things up and create more stuff, more stuff.

[29:42]

like ideas and feelings and emotions. Then, unless we're not right at the core of generating this stuff, We're not right there at the core of it. If we're away from the core, the root of the generation of all this stuff and the generation of this vibration of this movement, then we're up at the level of this stuff being generated and things are getting kind of like... It's harder to stay with at that level. Easier to stay with... It's hard to stay with at the root, but as the ramifications of the roots start to develop and we're away from the root and we get caught in the ramifications, Then we're dealing with a little bit more of a swirl of events, okay? There still isn't outflows yet though. There still isn't outflows. It's just natural byproduct of the duality of the mind. Now, at that level, when you start getting disoriented and lose track of this flow of events, then things get really stirred up.

[30:56]

And then you have tremendous flood, deluge occurs. That's the outflow. And the flood comes from not being able to stay present with, first of all, the fundamental duality that's arising in the mind, and its fundamental pain, and then the secondary phenomena, Not being able to stay present with that stuff and having any kind of bias in those fields creates then a big stir, a big, a big thing. And that level is dispensable, but we're often involved in it. So that's the outflows. So for example, again, basic duality, pain. We dissociate ourselves with it or associate ourselves with it.

[32:03]

Associating or disassociating with it are equally not being present with it precisely. Then this other stuff comes up, not because of that. This other stuff comes up anyway. If we were present, then our stuff wouldn't bother us. It would be circling around us. But if we're not present, we get caught up in that stuff. So then we start dealing with these other feelings and emotions which arise in relationship to this basic generator. Now if we stay present with that, if we couldn't stay present with the root, but we stay present with that stuff, then there's no outflow. So for example, if we stay present with the feelings that arise, pain and pleasure, if you stay present with them, and don't look away from the pain or towards the pleasure, it'll stop there. If you look away from the pain or towards the pleasure, then the outflows come and get you. And outflows are generated by this turning away from the pain or towards the pleasure. Then you really get disoriented. You hardly even know you're in pain and pleasure anymore.

[33:05]

Or which it is. I mean, you know, is it pain and pleasure? You're really confused now. Now this is the outflow level. When you find yourself at that level, what you do then is you practice mindfulness of that. You say, I am in I'm in a mess here. I mean, I'm overwhelmed. I mean, I'm barely, you know, I don't know what's going on. This kind of thing. That's called recognizing that there's an outflow. Now, if you recognize that, you're on the mend, so to speak. You're starting to cure yourself. And as you find your footing, or as I said to somebody this morning, as you find your sea legs in this situation as you find your sea legs you say okay this is an outflow you know that's already your you know this is an outflow and what type is it you know whoa you find out what kind it is and then you find out what kind it is and then you can see oh well that's based on this and you can face it this is based on this is based on turning away from certain feelings well what are the feelings well let's look at the feelings okay look at the feelings and then as you okay all right all right we got one here it is it's pain it's pain or it's pleasure my god this is pleasure

[34:14]

Then the outflow backs away and then you're mindful of the feelings, just the basic feelings. And then if you keep doing that, you drop through the floor of the feelings down to the root. Another thing that comes flying up around this stuff, of course, is first level basic duality, pain, get out of here! Next level, various opinions and conceptions and emotions come up. One of them, so this is a view, this is an opinion, this is what's happening, this is right, okay, this is wrong, okay, fine. This is happening. Now, to grab this one as right, then things really get stirred up. That's the outflow. That's the contamination. It's not contamination for the mind to produce ideas and positions and philosophical views. That's just part of what it'll do. Unless you're at the place where duality generates and you're seeing the non-duality there.

[35:17]

Unless you're down there at that root place where nothing's separated and there's no movement and nothing's arising. Unless you're in the realm of pure Dharma, you can have ideas up here and opinions. That's not outflow. But to grab them is not an outflow either. What happens when you grab it is the outflow. Because when you grab it, then, you know, things really start swirling around here. And then the level of the philosophical views start doing somersaults and fighting each other. Now you're in outflow land. Then when you're in outflow land, you say, oh my god, here we are again. I'm in outflow land. It's a mess. What kind might it be? Oh, I think, oh yeah, somewhere in this mess, somebody's holding on to a philosophical view, and it's me. And this holding, this holding, what I'm doing for dear life, this is actually creating all this trouble. And then it goes flat. And then you're still, but then it goes flat means these views are coming up still all over the place. But anyway, the turbulence that was produced by grabbing this or turning away from that or turning towards that, that goes flat.

[36:22]

Now you're just in basic, you know, psychic phenomena and pains underneath all of it. So mindfulness, you see, is what will help you. What is it again? Oh yeah, I'm paying attention to what's happening here. I'm experiencing things. That's what I'm doing, I remember now. I'm alive. There's five skandhas here and I'm supposed to be five skandhas. And okay, and it is turbulent five skandhas. It is inundation. It is deluge five skandhas. Okay, now this is mindfulness at the level of a big heavy duty Flood. Then find your place, the flood goes away, then you're back to just like psychic phenomena and pain. Practice mindfulness there then. And if you do that, you drop below that, in some sense to what is the basis of all psychic phenomena.

[37:24]

Duality, separation, separate object and so on. And then practice mindfulness there, and we're talking about the door to liberation. So, this is a little talk about right mindfulness, okay? And you can practice this now, in the next day or so, and you can practice it if you leave here and go out into the world, where if you don't watch out, you're going to get caught up and going in those storms. But even in those storms, you can practice and learn what these outflows are. You're going to have a chance to practice studying these outflows in another way than you have been here. And verify that you can actually bring yourself back down under the storm. And then bring yourself back down under the weather conditions which produce the storm. So you can continue practicing and not waste time in that way. But it's hard.

[38:26]

Because probably we're going to run into some heavy weather conditions coming ahead for us. Okay? Is that alright? I also have a question about your talk on renunciation, and during that talk it seemed to me that you were questioning your own degree of renunciation. Yes. Am I a renunciate? Yes. And it expresses my particular feeling about the subject matter, that really we're not, nobody has left home here. As a matter of fact... Well, I wouldn't... I wouldn't... I don't like you talking away. Saying nobody's talking about other people. Just talk about yourself. Well, as an observation, for example, none of the teachers are home leavers. Don't talk about other people. That's not really appropriate. No, I mean, I'm talking home leaving as... There are some people here who I think have left home. Literally.

[39:27]

Who don't have families. Okay? Okay. So I think it's better to talk about yourself rather than say other people have not left home. I didn't say that you weren't a whole nigger. Well, I'm trying to be. Yeah, but I didn't say you're failing. And that you're a phony. No, I didn't say that. I didn't say that about you. So don't say it about other people. Well, I'm making an observation. I'm saying, don't make observations like that about other people because you're talking about the faults of others. They're not faults. Well, you're calling them hypocrites. Well, they're, uh... If you say that these people aren't doing what they're trying to do, Nobody asked you to say that, but just talk about yourself. I'm not going around telling you that you're not a renunciate. No, I'm talking, for example, about you. Yeah, well, don't talk about me. Talk about yourself. I'm not talking about you. I don't say... Talk about yourself. I'm talking about your lecture. Well, you're talking about my lecture. About your class, about your own questioning of your own degree of renunciation.

[40:28]

Yeah, well, don't talk about that. Don't talk about that. OK, I'll talk about myself. I'll talk about myself. I was talking about myself. I wasn't talking about you. I'll talk about myself, then. Yeah, that's a good idea. OK, getting back to the home-leaving. I don't know. I mean, when we quote Dogen, for example, and what Shaktimuni has done, it sounds very fundamental. I mean, Dogen was a very fundamental sort of guy. This, this, this. and then re-repeated by Rev. Anderson. But with a question, am I a renunciate, you know, that it poses a... It feels very neurotic to me. I mean, I'm going to spend some time in a monastery, where hopefully I'm leaving home, and I'm doing fundamental Buddhist practice. And instead of renunciation, I see that it's just becoming another form of... It's like home-building more than home-leaving.

[41:29]

All right, so that's my question. And then to talk of going out to the marketplace and renouncing baseball games, blah, [...] blah. I mean, it doesn't make any sense to me. How come it doesn't make sense? Well, because when you enter a marketplace, you enter the marketplace, and the marketplace includes all this. Yes, you enter it, but you don't have to go to baseball games. Well, if you want to go to a baseball game, for example. Yes, but you don't have to go to a baseball game, even if you want to go to a baseball game. If you want to do unwholesome things, you don't have to do them. But I don't find them unwholesome. Well, are they wholesome? Yes. Well, that's not the marketplace. The marketplace isn't doing unwholesome things. What's the marketplace? The marketplace means unwholesome things. The marketplace is the world. It doesn't have to be unwholesome. The world is unwholesome if you're doing it for yourself. Anything you do for yourself is unwholesome. Yes, yes, yes. Of course. You know, I go to a baseball game and that's where I do my practice.

[42:32]

And who asks you to go? Nobody. What are you going for? for the wholesomeness of it. What's wholesome about it? What's wholesome about it? For the entertainment of it. What's wholesome about it? For the thrill of it. What's wholesome about the entertainment of the baseball game? You see athletics, for example. What's wholesome about it? You see human endeavor. You see excellence in movement. Right. So what's wholesome about you going to see that stuff? Like going to a concert. Like going to see Yo-Yo Ma. Yeah, well, what's wholesome about that? To see genius. What's wholesome about going to see somebody else's genius? But anyways, I appreciate you coming out of the closet I look at Shakyamuni 6 years and Bodhidharma's 9 years.

[43:35]

Precisely as some people think it's 9 years of Vopi. For me, it's living mono for 9 years and 6 years. Living what? Monastic. Mono. Solo. Except they were living alone. I'm doing it in a monastery where I'm doing it as a teacher with a sangha. I feel if I approach it in this manner, if I give myself six years, like Shakyamuni to be living, then it's not so neurotic. I really leave home. I renounce... Well, anyway, it's fine for you to really leave home. Okay? Really leave home. That's fine. As a matter of fact, that is what I'm telling you is what Shakyamuni Buddha and Dogen and pretty much all the Zen teachers are saying you have to do. You have to leave home. Okay? But you're telling me, which I think is true, even when you come to the monastery here, you start building a home again. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's not renunciation. No, it's not. No. It's far from it. Right. So, even when you... So, Dogen says that, but then he talked to the monks in his monastery, who supposedly have left home.

[44:38]

He says, have you really left home? That's what I'm saying to you. Have you really left home? And you're saying, well, maybe not. Maybe here, even in Pasajara, I'm still building a home. I'm still, like, building my little cabin, my little house, you know, I'm ordering my stuff for town trips and making my cabin full of just, like, all these little treasures in my cabin. I'm building another home right here. Well, so my question is, am I a renunciate? In that case, if I ordered that stuff just for me, who asked me? That's not renunciation. That's just entertaining myself. That's just buying things to distract myself. So it's not renunciation. And nobody's saying it is. Okay, fine. So what are you going to do? Well, I'd say, I either am going to renounce that stuff or I'm not. If I renounce it, that means I'm not going to get that stuff anymore, in contrast. I'm not going to order it. I'm going to renounce it. Not sort of pretend, but actually renounce it. Those are small things. Those are small things? Yeah. Oh, but they're so small. What about a child? If they're so small. What about a child? Then we're all set. Renunciation is not to renounce being, it is to renounce the things we're holding on to.

[45:44]

It's to renounce our preferences for beings. That's what it is. So the question is, are we actually renouncing things? And the answer is, what do you say for yourself? Don't talk about other people. You don't know about other people. For yourself, have you renounced the world, which means, have you renounced the attachment to things of the self? If the answer is no, then the question is, do you want to renounce? If the answer is yes, well, how can you learn to renounce? Well, partly by continually asking, you know, how can I learn to renounce? What is the good of holding on to this stuff? Do I really need to go to the baseball game? Is it really beneficial? Or would it actually... Am I attached to going to the baseball game? Now, if your son wants you to take him to the baseball game, it might be beneficial for him if you went. And then, if you're attached to baseball, you have to think about, well, you know, I'm just using him as an excuse, but that's obviously where you should go anyway. But maybe I will try to renounce the baseball game while I'm there.

[46:46]

I notice, you know, and then when my son doesn't ask me, maybe I won't go to baseball games for a while, unless, until I see that going to a baseball game is really an act of benefiting others. And it might be. It's possible. I, you know, when I went to Houston, I went to a Houston Astros game. But I didn't go because I wanted to see the game. I went because I wanted to go with the person who wanted to take me, who wanted to do that for me. But there's other things I might do for myself, and nobody's asking me to do it, and then I think, is that really beneficial? And some things are, like I think it's beneficial for me to brush my teeth, even though nobody's asking me to do it anymore. Well, they probably would if I stopped, but you know. I do do things for myself that nobody asks me to do that I think people want me to do. There's some other things I do for myself which I don't think anybody wants me to do. And those are things which I don't think are renunciation, I think that's antique.

[47:47]

It's going against the practice. And those things I feel bad about. And I want to stop those things. And when I do stop them, I feel happy. And then I feel like I'm in the monastery, wherever I am. It's the renunciation that makes the monastery. So, if you're in the monastery, you ask, you check with yourself, are you holding on to stuff? Are you making yourself a little home here? Are you making yourself a little nest? Decorating with all your favorite stuff? If so, Are you a renunciate? What's the answer? You answer. If the answer's no, what are you going to do about it? If the answer's yes, well, I'd like to hear about it if you're a renunciate. I'd like you to come and tell me that you're a renunciate and I can say, oh, glad to meet you, congratulations, wonderful. And then I might ask you some questions after that. And you can tell me about how this and this and this have really come out of renunciation. And I'll say, oh, fantastic, wonderful. I didn't know how a renunciate could order all this stuff on a town trip. It's fantastic. It takes Buddha beyond Buddha totally.

[48:49]

It's fantastic. It's wonderful. Anything is possible. Buddha can order stuff on town trips. But what does Buddha order on town trips? Check it out. Check it out. When you sign that little thing, is that Buddha doing that? Is that really your true bodhisattva spirit? Is that really helpful? Are you really trying to support these companies? Is that what you're doing? What's the story? You know, you know. Check it out. That's renunciation. Always looking. Dogen's always looking. Am I a renunciate? Am I a renunciate? Are you a renunciate? Shakyamuni Buddha was always looking, you may renounce it. Bodhidharma. If he's just sitting there facing the wall, but holding on, saying, I've got the nicest wall here in the world, I'm going to be famous someday, boy, they're going to talk for years about this, I'm sitting here, look how, you know, the bleachers are packed after I keep watching, oh, it's fantastic, he's been sitting there unmoving, he's the greatest thing. If he's sitting there, that's not renunciation, that's not wall gazing. Wall gazing is, it doesn't matter who's watching, it doesn't matter if you're famous or not, this is an act to express renunciation.

[49:54]

And still in my mind I'm wondering, am I really trying to get famous? Am I really trying to be the founder of a big school? If so, it stinks. But even checking is an act of renunciation. Checking. Am I renunciated? Am I attached to this? Am I attached to this? That's renunciation. And we can do that anywhere. But is the place we are a place we went as an expression of our renunciation? If not, we shouldn't be there. We shouldn't be in that place in the first place. Unless we went there. Now, if we went there, if we're there anyway, we shouldn't be there. Then we say, okay, I shouldn't be here. I'm in a place I shouldn't be. I'm sorry. I confess I'm not in a wholesome environment because I got here out of unwholesomeness. I had an unwholesome entry. My motivation for coming here was unwholesome. I defiled the situation by my unwholesomeness. But now that I admit that, the situation's starting to be purified.

[50:57]

Admitting our unwholesomeness purifies our unwholesomeness. So then you're in a different world. You're not in the world of playland. You're in the world of, I'm sorry that I came here for selfish reasons. And I'm embarrassed that here I am. But that's what you got. You got a person who's done some selfish things. I'm sorry. That's the spirit of renunciation. That doesn't mean it's all over in the next moment. Now what? [...] Can you see yourself in a few years as a total renunciate living on water and toothpaste? I can see it. I see it clearly. But would that be renunciation, you know? No, I mean, if you're going for our hot chip for example. Yeah. I'm not... I'm not... There's only one... There's only one reason why I'll be an Arhat. There's only one reason why I'd be an Arhat at this point and that would be for John's benefit.

[52:02]

I'm considering it, John. I might. I might. But the thing is if I was an Arhat for your sake I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be able to help you guys. So that's the story, you know. What is that famous story of Dungshan, right? Where he hears about the story of the national teacher who's teaching this guy. He said, you should hear, he said, the monk says to him, you know, what's the teaching of the ancient Buddhas? And he said, walls, tiles, pebbles. He said, do they expound the Dharma like an ancient Buddha? He said, they do all the time. He said, who can hear it? Who can hear it? He said, The saints can hear it." I said, well, can you hear it, Master? He said, no, I can't. And it's lucky for you that I can't, too, because if I was a saint and I could hear this teaching, I wouldn't be able to help you. Saints can't help you like bodhisattvas can. But if you guys really want me to be an arhat, I'll work on it.

[53:04]

In the meantime, I'm on this bodhisattva thing, but bodhisattvas have to practice renunciation, too. I don't want you to tell me that I'm not a renunciate, but you can ask me anytime you want if I'm a renunciate. Asking me is different. Are you a renunciate? That's fine. Don't tell me I'm not. Don't tell me I am. Ask me if I am, and then I'll tell you. I'm wondering. I'm wondering. I really have that question too. I'm like you. I have that question about myself. And how about you? Do you have anything you're holding on to, and are you Do you want to let go of it? And do you actually trust that that will set you free and benefit all beings? I do. And I'm having some difficulty with that. This is my path of renunciation. And so we'll see what I shall become. And when you see it, ask it what it is. Okay? Thank you.

[54:09]

And then who is next? Well, I don't know. It seems like it was over there somewhere. For a while I've been wondering how monkishly I present myself. How monkishly? How do I dare? Can I call myself a monk? Am I a part of this situation? Is that appropriate if you don't have official monk designation? And I can see it both ways. I can see myself on one hand wanting to create this sort of identity. I'm all solid. I am this. Yes. Right. That's not a monk. No. And on the other hand, I guess I would say that for for you know I think we have to just we have to we have to look at you know it's kind of a balance between how much I'm making known to other people our intention to be present

[55:16]

and mindful, how much letting other people know about that promotes our mindfulness and how much of it makes an issue out of our mindfulness. If it gets into like, you present yourself and basically what they talk to you about is, well, how come you're doing that and da-da-da-da-da-da, it won't necessarily promote your mindfulness, it'll make you talk about it. You know? People don't, you know, at this point in my life, people don't actually talk to me anymore about what I appear to be. I go places, they don't say that to me anymore. They don't do it. They don't get me into talking about, well, how come you're doing this? They don't do that anymore. But when I was young, when I was first ordained, they did. They did it more, because they can feel, they feel something. They feel like, oh, he's doing that or she's doing that to get support, so let's talk to him about it. But actually, it undermines you. So in that way, young monks in some ways should not be out in the society too much, because basically they get distracted by people's reactions to them.

[56:20]

But when you're an old monk, they don't talk to you about it anymore. They don't. They don't say, well, how come you're a monk, or how come you're a priest, and how come you shave your head, and how come you wear those robes? They don't talk to you that anymore. They think the same things that they thought when they first saw you, but it's something else that they think that stops them from talking, that shuts them up. I don't know what it is that they think, but on some level they get a different impression and they don't talk to you. It maybe has something to do with the age. But I don't know. I'm not sure about that because I've been sort of dealing with the question myself and I have the age. Well I mean the age of the practice. Age of the practice, that's right, yeah. So one of the problems we have in America is that the women who become ordained as priests, they shave their head. It creates this big scene, you know, wherever they go, that's what people want to talk to them about is their shaved head. It's not the shaved head that we're talking about here, but that's what people want to talk about. So then a lot of women grow their hair out because it becomes this big issue, you know.

[57:26]

And that doesn't seem like, that's not the point. The point of shaving this head is not to like, we talk about our hairstyle all the time with everybody. But in old Monk a monk who like a woman monk who had her head shaved in another country For 30 years if she came over nobody would say to her. How come you shave your head? They wouldn't say it to her Why wouldn't they say it to her? It's disrespectful, you know, it's like talking about something pretty trivial But they dare to be disrespectful to a newly ordained woman or you know the ordainment, they dare, they dare to do that. Our society dares, does not have that much respect for the average new monk. So they tease them, you know, they dare. But a 30, 40 year old, 30, 40 years of practice, they don't dare anymore. They say, oops, okay, okay, this is different, I won't talk about this. Really, it's a pretty silly thing, like, well, how come you shave your head? They'll mess with you. So I would say be careful to show yourself as a monk in an environment where people will basically mess with you about it.

[58:33]

They'll make it into idle chatter. And it won't support you, it'll make you aware, but it'll put you into a conversation which I think is basically a waste of time. I think it's better to have the thing in your heart and don't draw attention to yourself until the attention will be such that they won't talk about and distract you. which means quite a few years of practice in, I think, in a community like this before you're going to be able to do that. But just, you know, it's not a black and white situation. Okay? Well, it's almost time, getting to do that time again. Right mindfulness has been discussed somewhat on the conventional level actually, I've been talking about it today. Okay? Now I'd like to just briefly say something about it on the ultimate level. The ultimate level of right mindfulness comes to my mind.

[59:37]

When I first started practicing Zen, the word mindfulness was not a big word. Thirty years ago, mindfulness was not a ... there were almost no Vipassana groups in the country. We did not use the word mindfulness much at Zen Center. We said, be mindful, you know, of this and be mindful of that. Be mindful of birth and death. You know, be mindful of the way you put the rakes down. Be mindful of the way you pick your Oreo. But mindfulness practice, we didn't use that expression much around Zen Center. And then as the Vipassana movement became more powerful and popular and influential, Zen students became aware of mindfulness practice in that arena. And then they would come back and talk to Zen Center priests and teachers about it. And I remember that when it started happening to Kadagiru, actually at first I think he was kind of like... and then gradually he started getting kind of feisty about it. And kind of like people would talk about mindfulness and say, you know, he really seemed to get irritated with them when they asked him, what is mindfulness?

[60:38]

And finally one time I heard him say, kind of shout, he says, mindfulness There's no such thing as mindfulness. Mindfulness is wholeheartedness. And I think part of the reason why he got irritated is that in Zen, it's not that we're saying that Vipassana practitioners are practicing mindfulness dualistically. We're not saying that, okay? We're just saying that sometimes when we hear people, they come and they ask us about mindfulness practice, what we hear them saying is they're talking about a mindfulness which is like a mindfulness of me being mindful of something. Right? It's like, okay, I'm here doing the mindfulness practice. And that's not right mindfulness. And the people who teach right mindfulness wouldn't say it was a mindfulness either, but they allow that, right? For a few dozen years. The point is that mindfulness is not me mindful of something. It is mindfulness of me. It is me.

[61:45]

Mindfulness is the delusion of me thinking that I can be mindful. Of course we are mindful in Zen, but Zen mindfulness is that it isn't that you practice mindfulness and attain wisdom. Mindfulness and wisdom are identical. It isn't that I practice mindfulness. Zen is mindfulness, but it's a mindfulness which is pure, purified by renunciation of self. It's just living wholeheartedly. To make mindfulness into this thing which you do or which helps you become wise is antithetical to the whole project. So some Zen teachers get upset when the Zen students, they wouldn't mind if in Vipassana centers they taught it that way, but when Zen students start talking that way, it's like a kickback. It's like, okay, now I can use mindfulness as an excuse to practice dualistically and say, I'm practicing.

[62:49]

Again, we tolerate that with Zen students too for a while. Zen students say, I practice Zazen and this is my Zazen and I do Zazen. We let that go for a while, but then sometimes Zen teachers get a little upset with that too. They say, you don't do Zazen. Zazen is not what you do. It's not another karma. Have you ever heard that before? Well, good, I'm glad you heard it. Anybody else heard it? Huh? Who said it? Huh? I remember a story Blanche said, going to see Suzuki Roshi, talking about her practice of Zazen, and he got right in her face and said, don't think that you can practice Zazen, don't ever think that you can practice Zazen. Zazen does zazen, yeah. The mountains are the mountains of zazen.

[63:53]

So, that's fine. And so, so mindfulness is, is, is... Mindfulness is wisdom. But wisdom is not something I do. Delusion is something I do. So then Dogen says, it's like that boy who couldn't recognize his own father. That's mindfulness practice in the inappropriate way, is like the boy who doesn't recognize his own father. So you want me to tell the story?

[65:05]

How many people know the story? Yeah. Yeah. So in the Lotus Sutra it tells the story of this boy who went out for a walk one day and got lost. And he got lost big time. Got lost for 50 years. and he really got lost and he actually came from a very wealthy family but they didn't have good child care so he got lost and he became destitute and emaciated and filthy and totally depressed and thought of himself as you know, thought of himself very badly. Now, I might mention parenthetically that most of us may not think of ourselves as emaciated, destitute, and, you know, morally a wreck, but compared

[66:26]

to who we really are. Most of us have a really low opinion of ourselves. Even our high opinions of ourselves are like, the fact of having a high opinion of ourselves is really unnecessary and it's kind of a sign of having a low opinion of ourselves. Anyway, we're kind of like this young guy. Most of us have kind of like lost track of something for a while now. So 50 years seems like a long time for a kid to be lost, but actually it's nothing. So we're like this guy. This guy, in his wandering, just happened to wander back into his hometown. His hometown was like his dad's house. His dad had a really big house, it was like a whole town. His dad had kings and queens on his staff. This is like a big time, extremely, like inconceivably wealthy dad here.

[67:31]

So he wanders back into this palatial neighborhood and looks, just happens to like walk by his dad's house. And when his dad and mom are sitting up on the terrace, you know, looking down over their empire. And they look down the stairs and they see their own little boy walk by, 50 years older, but they recognize him. And the dad says to the mom, you see what I see? That's our baby. You see the boy?" She said, yeah. So he calls one of his servants and sends him down to bring the boy up. Service goes down the step to the boy, sees the servant coming and says, oh my God, that man's sending a servant down here to wipe me out. They don't want a sleazeball like me in their neighborhood. He faints out of fear of his demise. Father sees what's happening, calls the servant back. And then the father gets an idea.

[68:42]

I see. I know what to do. So he has his servant dress up in filthy rags, and then the son woke up revived from his swoon, from his faint. He woke up and said, oh God, I'm alive. So he scurries away from the scene. And the servant goes back dressed in filthy rags and says, excuse me, excuse me, Slabo, I have a job for you. You want a job shoveling shit? The guy says, yeah. That would be great. You want to get food for it? Yeah, we'll feed you food. So the guy thought, that's a job I could do. I'm weak, but I can shovel a little shit. Great. So he shovels shit. Shovels shit for 20 years. And after 20 years, he develops some confidence, you know? He's been eating for 20 years and, you know, has become a rather skillful shit shoveler.

[69:47]

Then his father actually approaches him, dressed also in rags still. the workers' clothes, comes to him and says, you know, you've been doing a good job here shoveling shit all this time, you know, I'd like you to be foreman of this crew. The guy says, OK. I can handle that. So then he becomes foreman of the crew. And he does that for another 30, 40 years. Then the father comes down dressed pretty much in his ordinary clothes, you know. In other words, fancy duds. And he says, you know, you've done this job really well, you've been in charge of this crew, I'd like you actually to come up into that big house there and learn about how things go up there, how things come in and out of that house." The guy said, I'm okay, I can do that. And he walks right up there with the rich man, who's his father, and he learns about the house, the way things happen there, who comes and who goes. And then does that for quite a long time.

[70:50]

And then the mother and father, of course, are getting rather old. And the father said to the mother, you know, we are getting old. And she says, yes, I know, dear. And we won't be around for so long. That's right, dear. Maybe we should finish this transmission here. He calls his son in and he says, you know, you've learned about the house now, and you're doing a good job. And the guy said, yeah, it's true, I'm doing okay. He said, you know, it's been kind of like, it's actually been kind of like you're my son, kind of. Yeah, it is kind of that way. He said, well, you know, as a matter of fact, you are my son. And you always have been. And you always will be. And then the son said, oh. Before he couldn't believe it, but now, He could believe it. But he was always, you know, that way. So, you know, right mindfulness is, is to, you know, we're already, we're already Buddhist children.

[71:51]

We don't have to do mindfulness. The mindfulness we do is Buddhist wisdom. Paying attention to our life here is Buddhist wisdom. It's not like we'll practice this and then we'll be Buddhist children. As soon as we sincerely practice this way and give up our dualistic thinking, It's Buddha's right mindfulness. We are Buddha's children. That's what Buddha thinks. We just don't recognize. That's the ultimate right mindfulness. It's not saying I'm Buddha's child. It's practicing with that kind of confidence in Buddha's teaching and recognizing our own parents. To separate wisdom and mindfulness is like not seeing our own father who completely accepts us always in our present state.

[72:52]

But we don't see that, we separate. And that separation is our pain. So in order to overcome that separation we have to be mindful and look at that separation. Yes. Yes. Yes. You just have to do something. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah, well, do you sometimes have to go to the toilet? Yes. Yeah. Well, what's the difference? I see. I mean, I can't take what you call the wisdom.

[73:58]

Excuse me, would you stay with my question, please? What's the difference between wanting to go to the toilet, feeling like you need to go to the toilet, and feeling like you need to follow your breathing? What's the difference? No difference. Okay? Then there's no problem. If you go to the toilet thinking that by going to the toilet you need to go to the toilet in order to be a Buddhist child, then that's like thinking you have to practice mindfulness in order to be a Buddhist child. But if you need to practice mindfulness like somebody has to go to the toilet, that's a Buddhist child. You see? Do you understand? Buddha's child needs to practice mindfulness, not to be Buddha's child. Buddha needs to practice mindfulness too, but not to be Buddha. Buddha doesn't say, okay, I'm not Buddha, I'm going to practice mindfulness and become Buddha. Buddha needs to practice mindfulness, just like you need to go to the toilet.

[75:00]

But to go to the toilet thinking that now, okay, finally I got that out of me and now I'm a Zen student. That's the way most people practice mindfulness. But to practice mindfulness, like, I have to follow my breathing. It's like, I have to do that. This is my life. I have to live my life. Not I have to live my life so I can be a Buddhist. I have to live my life so that, you know, I'll be a Zen student. I have to be able to live my life. No, no. It's not like I have to take a poop to become a Zen student. No. You just take a poop and you just practice mindfulness. And hopefully mindfulness while you're pooping. But when you need... When you need to, okay, that way, that's good. It's good to need to follow your breathing. It's good to need to feel your feet on the ground. Buddha needs that. Just like I was saying the other night and the other day, somebody told me, she was outside the zendo and she kind of like, she needed, it was cold, she kind of like almost, she needed to go in the zendo where it was warm.

[76:05]

She needed, she could feel she needed, she wanted to go in the zendo and be warm, very clear. Do you need to help people like that? Like, kind of like, I gotta help them. I gotta, like, liberate beings. Do you have that feeling? Do you need to be concentrated? Do you need to take care of things? Like, like you need to take a poop. If so, great. Then you don't have to get into like, well, I do this stuff for the blah blah blah blah. No, I do the practice for the practice and I need to do the practice. That's it. That's very similar to non-duality. That's very similar to giving up yourself. Very similar. So practicing mindfulness that way, if I need to follow my breathing, sometimes I need to follow my breathing, not now I need to follow my breathing. Yes, good. That's good. That makes practice just like going to the toilet. That's just what practice is like. It's like going to the toilet. Brushing your teeth is a little different. That's something you have to learn how to do.

[77:06]

It's not natural, but nice. Compassion is like, you know, reaching for your pillow in the night. It's not like, oh my God, I'd like, now see, now what can I do? I've got to do this compassionate thing. It's just like, eh, ah, like that. It's just like, plop. Okay? It's the duality, it's the gaining idea that makes this stuff not work very well. It's bringing the gaining idea into the mindfulness practice that separates it. When you bring the gaining idea into the practice, that's when you don't recognize your father, your mother. Do you understand? You think, I'm a poor person, I gotta gain with the Buddhas. You don't see that you're already Buddha's child. To do practice to become Buddha. Okay? We don't do that, do we? We just, we practice as Buddha. As Buddha's children, we're Buddha's disciples, we do Buddha's practice. But we also ask, do I do Buddha's practice?

[78:07]

Am I really doing it? I wonder. Buddha did that too. Are you guys upset now? Huh? Are you upset? Huh? No? It would only help me if that's what you were. Are you upset? I don't care. Are you okay? Yes. You alright? I really have to go to the toilet. Do you want to go to the toilet? Yes!

[78:47]

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