One thing I didn't do at the beginning of this practice period was to ask you a question, which I have been asking at the beginning of practice periods the last few years. And the question I've been asking you is, what is your ultimate concern in life, in this lifetime? And Yesterday, Norman talked about if you're not particularly interested in this bodhicitta thing, that's where you're at. And we have to work with that. So, also, if I'm walking around this triple treasure, this bodhisattva heart,

[01:01]

And what I'm teaching, and if I'm enthusiastic about this topic of the bodhisattva precepts and so on, it doesn't mean that you have to be, that you are. But still I ask, what is your ultimate concern? What is, in the end of your life, the most important thing? When it comes down to it, after everything else is, after everything is said and done, What will be the thing that's most important in this life for you? And I also understand from experience that when I ask that question, not everyone has an answer. Sometimes in a three-month practice period, it takes a person quite a while to get down to that place in themselves where that answer sits. It's something that's revealed to us, and we sometimes have to quiet down before we can hear it or see it.

[02:17]

And even after we hear it, it can evolve. And even after we see it, it can evolve. And so, in some sense, the way I've talked about practice periods is that they're an opportunity for the revelation of this ultimate concern, for the discovery of it, and for the clarification of it, and for the deepening of it, and developing of it. There's no end to the developing of our ultimate concern. And each person has their own way of putting it. So, I ask you that question now, and I want to hear the answer from you, if you have it. I'd like to hear your answer. And I understand that you may not have it right away, but... I have it right away. What is it? To come out of my misery. Okay. To be free. Yeah. Well, there it is. And so now, given that, certain things might follow.

[03:24]

Certain practices or devotions, dedications might follow. And then we could discuss what life follows from that concern. what's appropriate to that concern. If someone had the concern of getting... primarily getting more wealthy and famous, certain other things would follow, perhaps. Okay, the next thing is... that I think I also didn't say, you know, is that in the overall view of what I'm presenting, I'm trying to harmonize and relate, interrelate basic, you know, practice of being present and upright in zazen with the bodhisattva precepts. So, I haven't said that really, have I? At that point?

[04:26]

So, it's, it's all, it's approaching these precepts from zazen. and also to use these precepts for us to understand the dynamic life of Zazen. And also, as you have seen, my presentation comes from the structure of the presentation is the structure, the classical structure of the receiving of the precepts. So the structure of my presentation is the structure of the ceremony of receiving the precepts. And it occurs to me that the structure of the ceremony of receiving precepts just coincidentally is the history of Shakyamuni Buddha's life.

[05:39]

In invoking compassion of the ancestors, feeling compassion for all beings, being somewhat shocked at the suffering of the world. This is the ancestor's compassion. They all have been somewhat disturbed by the suffering of beings, including themselves. Sometimes they notice it in others and then in themselves, sometimes in themselves and in others, sometimes simultaneously. That's the beginning of the ordination ceremony, invoking the presence, the presence, not the absence, but the presence of the compassion of the ancestors. Next, renunciation. Next thing Buddha did after his heart was ripped asunder, he renounced the world.

[06:59]

Next, He practiced confession. Next, he received the first Bodhisattva precept, which is called taking refuge in Buddha. In other words, he attained the way. Next, he brought forth the Dharma. Next, he brought forth the Sangha. Next he taught the discipline of refraining from evil, practicing good, clarifying the mind, and so on. And then he taught different systems of what are called pratimoksha to different types of practitioners. This was his life, and this is the ceremony of receiving the precepts. The ceremony of receiving the precepts in our tradition is called

[08:03]

the ceremony of attaining the way, tokudo shiki, the ceremony of attaining the way. And it is structured on the process of attaining the way, which has these elements. So, I may not be able to do it during every class, but in some sense, in some sense, either whether I say it literally or not, it's kind of... I think it's helpful to like, in a sense, get a running start on whatever we're talking about by going through the whole ceremony every time. So even if we're talking about a later precept, go through in your mind, invoking the presence of the compassion of the ancestors, renounce the world, Confess. Oh, there's one other aspect which I forgot to mention, and it's after the confession there is an anointment, pure water purification, and then receive, receiving the, take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, and so on.

[09:20]

So each time, wherever we are in the process, start from the beginning, in case I don't have time to go through it literally, in your own heart, start from the beginning. Always start with compassion. Always start with Shakyamuni Buddha's vow if you want to, you know, get a feeling for what's being taught. Start from there and go forward. So, listening to... I actually overheard some of the groups discussing yesterday, and listening to what we discussed, I thought again it would be good to sort of just go over a little bit the renunciation. So renunciation, what I said before was it's basically not meddling with your experience, not meddling with your mind, not meddling with your thoughts, not meddling with your feelings, not meddling with your emotions.

[10:33]

Not meddling with your anxiety. Not meddling with your fear. In other words, you renounce meddling. You renounce what should be renounced. Meddling. And Michael looked up the word meddling. It means to mix. You renounce mixing. Mixing with what's happening. You just clearly observe and you stop messing with what's happening. This is called renouncing the world. It doesn't mean you abandon beings and, you know, renege on your responsibilities to beings. It means you stop meddling with beings. And that's the way not to abandon them.

[11:42]

You observe sentient beings with eyes of compassion. And that assembles an ocean of virtue and blessing beyond measure. You observe them with eyes of compassion. You don't meddle with them with eyes of I don't know what. Or with hands of I'm going to fix you. You observe them with eyes of compassion. You feel their suffering and you don't meddle. This is called having a mind like a wall. It's almost like you look at somebody and you just can't think of them being any other way. You're so stupid. Like, this is the way they are and I just can't imagine any other way, you know? People ask me, how am I? I say, it wouldn't be better. Couldn't be worse either. But somehow they're happier to hear, usually, couldn't be better than couldn't be worse.

[12:46]

But I mean couldn't be worse. Or better. Some of them get the joke, some of them don't. But if I say couldn't be worse, then they... Then they feel sort of like honor bound or, you know, politeness bound not to get the joke. I'm sorry. I'm sorry you couldn't be worse. Couldn't you be worse? I mean, no, no. I'm sorry it's, no. It's not to say it couldn't get worse. And I always think it could be worse. But right now I couldn't be worse. That's renunciation, like, just too dumb to figure out how it could be worse or better. This is called relinquishing all activities of thought. And relinquishing doesn't mean spit on them.

[13:48]

It means, relinquish means to leave behind. Re, in this case, means behind. And relinquish comes from to leave, to leave behind. It doesn't mean you don't have your activities of thought. It means you leave them behind. and walk forward on the Buddha way. Meantime, they crop up every step of the way. You get a whole new set of activities of mind. Keep leaving them behind and moving forward. That's Zazen. Huan Yung says, in our school, Zazen has nothing to do with mind. Zazen is not to regard mind, is not concerned with mind. But not concerned does not mean to ignore. Ignoring is the primary way that we're concerned with our mind. To be in denial about what's going on is our primary mode of concern.

[14:51]

That's our primary way of meddling, is to not pay attention. But then sometimes when we pay attention, we pay too much attention. We pay too much attention to this and overlook that. All this is in the realm of paying attention to mind, being concerned with mind. Zazen is not concerned with mind. That's called Zen mind. The mind which is constantly shedding itself. The mind of no abode. This is again renunciation. Being willing to give up your mind Being willing to drop off your body. And this includes, this does not mean being willing to abandon any sentient being. This means, again, just to be able to give up meddling with them. And the same with your bodhisattva vow.

[15:55]

And the same with your bodhicitta. You relinquish bodhicitta too. And you, you know, you renounce everything. Which means you renounce meddling with bodhicitta. So someone asked me just recently, well isn't, you know, you know, the bodhisattva's intention and ultimate concern, isn't that stuff meddling? Concern isn't meddling. Bodhicitta isn't meddling. Emotion isn't meddling. When your intention to practice arises, it's just a thing that's manifesting in the world. It's not meddling. An intention is not meddling. But you can meddle with your intentions. You can hold your intention in a fixed way. Self is not meddling. But you can hold to the self.

[16:57]

Meddle with the self. Devotion is not meddling. But you can meddle with devotion. Being devoted to someone is not meddling. But if you're devoted to someone for a long time, after a while, somehow, if you're not careful, you can think you own them. If you're devoted to Zen Center for a long time, you might think You own it. These kinds of ownerships are meddling with your devotion. And they're kind of like barnacles, incrustations that gradually wall off something very precious. The bodhisattva doesn't, you know, renounce caring for Zen center or all beings.

[18:00]

The bodhisattva renounces this meddling, this... activating the mind around objects. So when you meet somebody, this activity of your mind around it, like, gee, I wish they'd stay this way, or I wish they were different. That's the activity of your mind. I like them today. Today I don't like them. This is activity of your mind. Fine. No problem. It happens. But then you just let go of that and move on to meet the person again. in the next way your mind responds to them. Again, this is renunciation. Bodhisattva precepts. Six paramitas. Same thing. Six paramitas are not meddling and messing with things. But you can meddle with the six paramitas. You can meddle with the bodhisattva precepts. You can hold them into some fixed mode

[19:04]

Again, you renounce that too. This is how to enter into the study of these topics, these teachings. Now, once you get a feeling for this upright sitting approach through renunciation, renunciation is basically the same thing as upright sitting. Once you have this upright sitting, then you can enter into the next practice. It isn't all over then. Now you test the uprightness. And the first way to test the uprightness is to test it in the field of the practice of confession. Now entering into the practice of confession, but uprightly, if possible. And so I want to say, before I forget, and that is, I understand that this word, confession, can bring up, and does bring up, a lot of deep feelings in people.

[20:15]

A lot of painful memories, both of, in the sense of confessing things that you have done, but also you start remembering things that other people have done to you. And also you might practice, you might remember ways that confession has been painful or ineffective in the past. So this word, I know, can tug on your hearts a lot, so I'll try to be careful in my discussion of it. But I want to know, it's a word that a lot of us have a lot of pain around. So I'd like to talk about... in the context again of being upright, practicing Zazen here, talk about formal and formless confession.

[21:20]

And also in both cases, what do you call it, this intra-psychic and interpersonal. Formal intrapsychic and formal interpersonal confession. Formless intrapsychic and formless interpersonal confession. I looked up the word confession. Its root means c-o-m, which is an intensifying suffix, and kvateri, which means to confess. So the root is an intensification of the root for to confess.

[22:26]

But some of the other meanings of confession are to acknowledge, to admit, to a vow, but also confession means to just, you know, state your, state your, you know, some belief you have, too. You can also confess your beliefs. You can confess your ultimate concern, for example. You can confess your vows. So it's not just acknowledgement. It's also like, in some sense, a little bit of proclamation or declaration. And I think all those meanings are relevant here. Also, I looked up the word sorry. It means pain and sad. And another point of review is that Julie and Brooks, in talking about confession, they brought up someone else criticizing us.

[23:35]

That's an important issue. But other people criticizing me is not confession, not my confession. It may stimulate me to confess, which is fine, but it's... We don't confess, it's not really confession to... You don't confess for other people and they don't do it for you. It's partly something you do yourself, you know. Also, other people don't practice renunciation for you and you don't do it for them. Some of us might be willing to do some reconciliation for some other people. And they might be willing to do it for us, but we don't want them to. However, I think it is the case that in the practice of confession, there are these other aspects that come up that... Being sorry is not confession, but being sorry is something that naturally comes with confession a lot of the time. Regret is not confession, I don't think, but regret is part of the fulfillment of the process of confession.

[24:46]

Apologizing is not confession, but apologizing is very good to do, you know, sort of after confession. So first you confess, then you apologize. I was angry yesterday, and I'm sorry. Or, I was angry a few seconds ago, and I'm sorry. And also, another part of the process which some people recommend is acknowledgement, pure acknowledgement, then lamentation, I'm sorry, I'm in pain about this, apologizing, and asking for forgiveness. Brother David told me about this girl who was, whatever the politically correct term for someone who has low IQ, who was trying to learn the process of confession.

[25:49]

So when she did some sort of confession, she said, well, first of all, you admit what you did, and you feel what that's like, and then you say you're sorry, apologize. And she always forgot the last one. Oh, yeah, that's right. Ask for forgiveness. You may not say it out loud, but the confession itself is really, you know, a really good way to ask for... It's really an effective way to ask for forgiveness. Usually when somebody does those things... it comes pretty fast. You want to give it. Okay, so formal confession. Formal confession is the Chinese character for it is the character for confession and with actually two characters for confession and the root of those words

[26:55]

It has something to do with feeling sad and remorse. Again, I like the word remorse. Taste it again. So you feel remorse. And then the other word character, which makes it into formal confession, is a character which means G. I mean, the character is G, which means phenomena or a thing. You confess a thing or a phenomena. So, again, in terms of zazen practice, you practice confession when you're sitting zazen. You confess, I'm leaning, I'm meddling, I'm meddling, I'm meddling, I'm leaning. I'm in the future, I'm in the past. You know, I'm anxious. I'm afraid. I'm attached, I'm meddling. I'm holding. I'm being possessive.

[27:59]

I'm being angry. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not balanced. Confessing this way. Just admitting what's happening. Just being honest about what's happening. You don't even have to say the words. You don't have to say the words you're leaning to feel you're leaning. But you feel it in the new. As soon as you feel it, you're upright again. You may not have changed your body position, but as soon as you feel off, you're upright. As soon as you admit what you've done, you're right. You're upright again. So, the formal confession is to admit a particular phenomenon, to acknowledge a particular phenomenon. As soon as you acknowledge it, you come upright again. So what's formless confession? Formless confession is after practicing formal confession, after acknowledging some phenomena of imbalance or lack of presence, then you just settle.

[29:11]

So formless confession is to sit upright and contemplate the characteristics of reality. Reality in this case is, first of all, when you first, after first coming upright, you notice, what do you notice? You notice, well, you think some, that there was some error committed, or some bias arose in you, or some attachment, right? You admit that. And you settle with that admission. And you start to notice in that balanced place, you start to notice how did this happen? How did this bias develop?

[30:16]

And what is it that makes this bias a bias? Now some people think that to contemplate, you know, reality would mean that some delusion that you admit would go away. You know, like you would note the delusion, and by noting the delusion, you're upright again. By noting the delusion, practicing formal confession, you're upright. That's right. And settling with that, and contemplating being upright and settling with that, starting to see the characteristics of reality, that the delusion would go away. And suddenly there would be like undilution would be manifested. Or unbiasedness would be manifested. Or non-attachment would be manifested. Yes, that's right, it would be manifested. That's what it means. However, it manifests before the other thing goes away. So we say the horse arrives before the donkey leaves.

[31:19]

By we, I mean, you know, the Zen ancestors say that. In other words, the non-discriminating awareness arrives before discriminating awareness leaves. Enlightenment arrives before delusion leaves. The true characteristic of reality, enlightenment is not the true characteristics of reality. Delusion is not the true characteristic of reality. The true characteristic of reality is enlightenment is the understanding of delusion. So, whatever you've admitted, now you've admitted it, now you sit with that and contemplate how that thing is. When you understand how this thing you've admitted is, you are now looking at what this thing really is. You are now looking at reality. This is formless repentance.

[32:23]

And this is exactly zazen. And this is exactly attaining the way. Some people have a theory that, you know, doksan started as confession. It's a nice theory. But, and in terms of this discussion, you could see it that way. So, first of all, there's intra-psychic formal confession. Within your own psyche, you acknowledge and admit what's happening. It doesn't mean you just admit unwholesome things, by the way. It doesn't mean that. Although it's often said and stressed, Bodhisattvas practice the confession of non-virtue.

[33:29]

Bodhisattvas practice the confession of error. Bodhisattvas confess their mistakes. Bodhisattvas notice their shortcomings. Bodhisattvas confess their unwholesome behavior. Yes, that's stressed. But if you notice those things, it isn't that you wouldn't notice also everything else. It's rather the idea here is to open your eyes to those things and thereby opening your eyes to everything. Whereas some people have their eyes open to their own virtue, which is somewhat real, that they have virtue. That's not untrue, but they don't look at their non-virtue. Therefore, they don't even see all their virtue. So, part of this, one corner of this practice is... to notice your non-virtue, but also notice everything about yourself. Notice your breathing in, notice your breathing out.

[34:30]

Notice your concentration, notice your distraction, notice everything. And admit it and acknowledge it. That's the intra-psychic thing. And do it as thoroughly as you can. And in other words, do it with everything that happens. Confess, practice confession with every experience. In that sense, confession is like mindfulness. And that's really the spirit to practice it in. That's the upright spirit to practice confession, is mindfulness. Thorough mindfulness. And sometimes thorough mindfulness leads to feeling sorry about what you're mindful of. Sometimes it leads you to feel very happy about what you're mindful of. But anyway, before You don't, like, notice only what makes you happy, and you also don't notice only what makes you sad. You notice, the idea is to notice everything. In other words, eventually be mindful about everything that happens to you, or every experience that you're given.

[35:40]

Intracycically. Then, or in conjunction with that, confess interpersonally. Go to somebody, another person. Talk to somebody you trust. Somebody you can feel like you can tell the truth to. In other words, your truth. somebody who you can share yourself with, somebody you feel you can show yourself with, the self that you're admitting, the self that you're acknowledging. The self that you had acknowledged to yourself, now go acknowledge it to someone else. The advantage of this is that, well, there's many advantages, but one advantage is that sometimes we're not thorough in our acknowledgement of ourself.

[36:47]

Sometimes this other person will help us be more thorough. Like my often repeated example of when I was driving with my wife in the car and we're driving into a traffic jam and I quickly turned left to avoid it and drove into a more intense traffic jam. And I said, that's the stupidest thing I've ever done. And she said, even when you confess, she'd compliment. So by saying it out loud, I realized that I was, you know, I was confessing, you know, but also took the opportunity to give myself a little pat on the back. I now, generally speaking, have changed my language and now I say... This is not the stupidest thing I've ever done.

[37:55]

You don't give yourself a pat on the back. That is a pat on the back. Saying that this is not the stupidest thing I've ever done is a Buddha pat rather than a Reb pat. I also, I used to say as a joke, which almost no one got, I've never been so insulted in my life Since no one got it, I felt lonely, so now I say, I have been more insulted in my life. When people say stuff, I say, I've been more insulted than this. So, when you talk, when you show yourself, when you show, when you have become aware of yourself, when you show the self that you're aware of to someone else, it's possible that you see more. that you realize when you said it to yourself, you thought, well, that was pretty good. And then when you tell somebody else, you say, oh, I left something out. Or they might say, I don't quite understand what you mean. You know, because you left out that little piece of information that you sort of know that, so it makes sense to you what you said, so you didn't have to say it.

[39:04]

But they need that extra piece of information, so you've got to, like, say it. which you didn't plan to say quite that much, because you knew the context of those other things you did around that thing. But they are so dumb, you know, they don't know. Well, I don't get why that's so bad. Well, it was bad because of, you know... You know, I took that thing from them, you know. But that didn't seem so bad. But actually, I also took that and that. Oh, I see. Or I also kick them after I take a call. Now I see why you came all this way. Is there anything else you're leaving out? The confessor, the person who listens, generally speaking, I find people do not particularly want you to beat them up after they tell you. They kind of like, they just want a little reflection.

[40:05]

They don't necessarily want somebody else to tell them that was bad. Again, one time, a certain person was holding my Buddhist robe, right? And it was in a very precious thing. It was in a precious little package. And somehow it slipped out of the package and fell on the ground here, right behind the kitchen at Greengau. And then I... I did the confession for them. For her. And of course, then she became defensive and punished me for punishing her. And it wasn't so much that I, out of fear, never did that again. Although to some extent, maybe.

[41:07]

But I realized that if I hadn't said a word, if I just stood there, that person would have been very, very sorry for dropping. Much more sorry than my measly punishment of yelling. So I learned the best way to let people feel their pain is to let them notice it. If I bring it up, forget it. If somebody tells you a little bit and then you punish them for it, they won't open up to the deeper realms. I shouldn't say they won't, but they might not open to the deeper significance of what they've admitted. If the person opens it up and you just sort of like listen, then they can open it deeper and deeper and deeper. So, it's like in California, you know, we have lots of small restaurants that have mirrors, or dentists' offices and stuff that have mirrors. You walk in, the room's twice as big. It seems to be twice as big as it really is.

[42:09]

It's like that. When you do the interpersonal confession, the room gets bigger. And you see other dimensions of yourself that you're showing. Very useful. Very useful. Now, the formless, in some sense, this is actually just zazen. Once you do formal practice, you're back in line with yourself. You've admitted what you need to admit. You're just yourself now. You're sitting upright in honesty. You're honestly sitting upright. So you're practicing zazen. So the formless depression is to steep yourself in that honesty. to really settle deeply. And let this, and then let, and then you let this stuff just melt away. Really let it melt away. Or it just does melt away in the face of this upright sitting.

[43:15]

So, for example, let's say you're sitting in, like someone said, what I overheard, you know, that led me to bring this up again, was someone said they were practicing, they were sitting in the zendo and they relinquished lots of habitual ways of thinking. And ladies and gentlemen, I propose to you that all ways of thinking are habitual. Thinking is basically habit. So, relinquishing all thought is the same as relinquishing habitual thought. But relinquishing thought is not habitual. Relinquishing is not habitual. Relinquishing is always fresh and refreshing. So again, this admission of what's going on, if it's effective, it is refreshing. If you practice confession uprightly, it is refreshing, enlightening. It doesn't make you heavier. If you admit your burdens,

[44:20]

and they drop. This confession is a good deal. You're carrying these burdens of your karma. You admit them. You come upright, and they drop off. And you're sitting there lightly. But if you're bent over and in pain from unadmitted karma, that can go on indefinitely and get more and more painful. What we have to do is say, okay, okay, I did it, I did it, I did it. Then you come upright and it drops off. And then there, then you practice, yeah, you continue the practice of confession in that dropped off state. And you practice that intra-psychically. So sitting in the zendo, you notice posturally, you notice in your breath, you notice in your attitudes, some holdings. some holding, some clinging, some opinionatedness, some fixed judgment.

[45:26]

You notice that stuff. You just notice it. You notice it. And in noticing, you come upright, and it drops off. And then when you feel settled in this dropped-off state, you have realized formless confession of your situation. In other words, after a while, you're not admitting even. But you also can sit in Zazen when you're not admitting particular things. You're just sitting, in some sense, in the admission, in the dropped-off attitude, in the detachment, which arises from this admission of things. Again, then, when you feel settled in this formless confession, or this, in some sense, pure zazen, and pure zazen again, It does not have any idea of purity. Pure zazen also doesn't meddle with the state by making it pure.

[46:29]

It relinquishes purity, too. Then you bring that pure zazen, you bring that formless confession into interpersonal... into interpersonal reading. In both cases, when you go into the bigger room, the room with the mirror, it's a little more intense, and again, you know, it's a test to see if you can continue the practice in a more dynamic situation. The bigger room, the mirror, and the mirror's changing. The face of the mirror's changing. So... If you can realize, if you can do these practices by yourself, intra-psychically, then they're fulfilled by practicing them also interpersonal. This is the practice of confession in a way.

[47:35]

A little bit about it. This is the practice of confession. This is the sort of overview of it. Question. When you started the class, you spoke of following up this bare no game with maybe I'm sorry and asking for forgiveness. We don't talk about forgiveness so far. seems, you know, in Marxism and Mahatma Gandhi. Right. And somehow the simple noting doesn't seem enough either. I mean, I'm not sure whether you're saying that those steps that follow are really an integral part of deep confession, saying I'm sorry and asking forgiveness. Is it a reminder to us that those are actually an integral part of what you're now explaining?

[48:40]

Is it really just... as a non-meddling attention. That is not enough to say that that's just depression. Well, Scott kind of asked that question the other day. He said, if you're practicing uprightness, why would you say, I'm sorry? Is that what you said? I couldn't see why you say, I'm sorry. I think, you know, just in a conventional sense, once you notice to yourself And also, especially, if you notice when you say to someone else, I was angry yesterday. I admit I was angry. In a conventional sense, I think in our society anyway, it's useful and helpful to say I'm sorry. It seems to create harmony, I think. So it's good. Okay? But his question the other day was, well, if you're upright and you've dropped off body and mind, why would you say you're sorry? Well, it's not interpersonal then.

[49:41]

I mean, it seems like a very individual experience. The sorry makes it like words being heard by a person. Well, yeah, first of all, it's interpsychic, right? First of all, hopefully you're telling, when you say you're sorry, it's not just by rote. However, it's kind of wholesome even by rote. But let's talk, you know, idealist ideally. Maybe it arises in you intra-psychically. I'm sorry. Still, his question was, how come it would arise intra-psychically? And I would say, when you're in a state of dropped-off body and mind, things, as usual, but now you can understand that, things emerge spontaneously by various causes and conditions. It isn't that when you're in a state of renunciation you don't do anything. I mean, you have, in a state of renunciation, you have renounced doing. And then doing can rise up with lots of energy. Then you, with no deliberation, you feel sorry.

[50:47]

With no deliberation, you feel pain at the thought of what you've done. The remorse, you taste it, you feel pain and bitterness when you taste it again. And then you may or may not say, I'm sorry. But if you do, it's because you are spontaneously, undeliberately led to say, I'm sorry. And it's a very fresh, I'm sorry. It's not, well, I better say I'm sorry. I'm sorry, necessarily. It's like a sorry, not Scott. It's not Scott saying he's sorry. But in that state, all things coming forward and realizing me saying I'm sorry. But that may not happen every time, even though it would be nice if it did. But maybe it happens a lot. I really don't know how often that will happen to someone who really settles into full admission of their behavior, that they will feel sorry about it.

[51:54]

But when they feel sorry and they're talking to somebody else, will they always then mention not only that they did it, but that they're sorry? Will they always say everything they have to say? I would say it depends on the circumstances. If you admit the thing and then the other person sort of blurts in and says, thank you for admitting that, you might not have a chance to say you're sorry. So the causes may not lead you to do that. And they might say, well, I'm glad you admit that. Why don't you say you're sorry? And you say, I was going to, but you were talking, so I'm waiting for you to finish. No, I'm sorry. So sometimes people remind us to say I'm sorry. And then we say, there's all different patterns possible. But strictly speaking, the word I'm sorry in the etymological sense of pain, I think might naturally arise from the remorse, the chewing again of a behavior that's non-virtuous.

[52:54]

Non-virtuous behavior by definition means something that you don't feel good about. Unless you're in an unwholesome state. If you're in an unwholesome state, you do feel good about unwholesome things. But unwholesome states don't usually go with admitting anything. Okay? So it looks like you want to ask questions now. All right. Go ahead. Or maybe, excuse me, you also want to make comments. Comments. Comments and questions. There was about six of them, so I don't know. I think you were next, Ron. What if you say, like, I'm sorry for being careless? Is that like the confessions there, even though it's coming after the apology? I'm sorry I was careless? Right. What do you mean? That seems like a normal confession. I didn't follow what you meant. Oh, I thought it sounded like you were saying... I should say I was careless.

[53:56]

I'm sorry. I'm still not careful, but you guys. Oh, the order. Oh, yeah. I think like David Weinberg was saying to me, you know, that sometimes, you know, that sometimes it works that way. I think that admitting the thing. If you say you're sorry first, my feeling is, if I say I'm sorry first, I want to rush over saying I'm sorry. If you say I'm sorry and just stand there for a little while, the person goes, huh? So if you say sorry first, then you want to rush on to tell them what it is about, right? I'm sorry for blah, blah, blah, blah. But if you do it the other way around, it sinks in better. They say, I did this, and you can let that sit for a little bit, and then say... And I'm sorry. And that can sit there for days. But if you say, I'm sorry, you want to rush on and say what it's about. So I think, in some ways, the impact is deeper. If you say, I did this, I'm sorry.

[54:58]

But the other way is fine, too. Did I address your question? Yeah. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome. I think maybe Lee was next. I'm not sure. Do you think you were next? I was just... The doing that arises in a dropped-off state, is that non-karmic action? Is it non-karmic? Thank you for asking the question. The answer is yes. The action that comes out of formless confession is not karma. Because you're not thinking here in terms of, well, now I'm going to say such and such. When you're in the form of state, you have dropped off. You know, you have dropped off doing. You have dropped... It isn't that you can't think, oh, I did this and I did that. As a matter of fact, you just admitted I did this and I did that. And by admitting I did this and I did that, you are now just in a state of admission of being a karmic being.

[56:00]

Once you're in a state of admission of karmic being, then you also drop off attachment to being a karmic being. You give up your great capacity to commit karma. Which means karma is an individual self does something. That's karma. Karma is not all of us together doing something. Karma is not even I plus you. Karma is all you minus me. Non-karmic action is all of you minus me. realizing something through me. So in the state of formless, of full realization of formless confession, the actions which spontaneously, non-deliberately emerge are not karma. But this non-karmic action is the flowering of complete admission of being a karmic person.

[57:06]

The content of non-discriminating awareness is discriminating awareness. The content of non-karmic behavior is karmic consciousness. And non-karmic, in other words, free, liberated life is inseparable from karmic life. That's why we have to do this settling into our, that's why we have to confess our karmic, before we hear about teaching beyond, about life beyond karma. If you get into life beyond karma without settling into your karma, it can become nihilism or worse. That's what this phase is about. Then there was leave, and fool, and... Yes? Okay, I'd like to go to... I have to tell a story, yes.

[58:11]

Going through Ignatiation, Confession. Yes. And then ask Confession. Okay. I'm sitting here right now. Yes. And I don't think there's anything wrong in my inmost being with beings about going to have a hot dog next period of Zazen. Yes. Okay. Okay. So, I mean, this is a really strong point of my being. So, I renounce meddling with that. I used to go, gee, people's session, maybe the hot dog, maybe I shouldn't, maybe I shouldn't. Okay, I renounce that. I'm not going to meddle with that. I'm going to let that be. Yes. All right. Now, so, and then I'm going to practice confession, because I've noticed that thought. Yes. That's enough right there. Yes, the thought is, I would like to have a hot dog, and another thought is, I think that's okay. Two thoughts? No, I think it's one thought.

[59:13]

Okay, one thought. So you note that thought in an upright way. Upright way. Yes. So then... That's confession, you know, interpsychically. Yes. Okay. Then Galen's sitting right here. Yes. I go to Galen. I say, Galen, I'm going to go have a hot dog next time. Yes. Okay. Now... You know, so I confess to another person and she can give me feedback or, you know, talk about it. Right. Okay, then I get up and go do that. Yes. You know, go have that hot dog. Yes. So, you know, if I'm announced eating hot dogs and, you know, am I being upright if I go do that? Is it, you know, all right? Well, you're the main one to tell. It's not for me to say. Oh, yeah, but I mean... We have to go, I have to, you know, I'll go with you to the hot dog stand, okay? And when you buy the hot dog, okay, okay, and then I take the hot dog away from you, okay, and eat it myself. Okay, and I take your wallet too, so you can't buy any more.

[60:18]

Okay, and at that time, if you feel great joy, you know, at the beauty of life, you know, and you don't get angry at me for taking your hot dog away, you know, all that, then it looks like maybe you did renounce eating the hot dog, even though, you know... But if you notice that actually there is some attachment, you think, like for example, you think, well, I paid for the hot dog, so I own the hot dog, you know. And owning the hot dog means, you know, I mean, I understand what that means, you know. Forget about the history of property rights in the Western civilization, you know, all that stuff. I know what this means now. I own this hot dog. You cannot take this hot dog from me and you punch me in the face. This looks like more like that you're not, haven't really renounced property. all activities of thought. But I can't say. You have to judge for yourself.

[61:18]

Basically, inside, it hurts. It hurts. It sticks. It feels less alive. What feels alive to me, you know, in the story, for myself, would be, you know, I go to get the hot dog, Lee comes with me, takes the hot dog, and I feel just great joy, you know. Not that I feel all closed down, like he took my hot dog and this is a waste. It's why I walked all the way out here to 7-Eleven to get this hot dog. What a wasted trip, blah, blah, blah. Lee's a jerk. That isn't the life I love, you know. The life I love is, wow, this is great. It's like a Zen story, Lee, thanks. Two-seventies, how much does it cost? It's for me to judge whether I feel alive. This stuff hurts when it's off. That's the confession part. You can partly tell whether it's unwholesome because unwholesome is unfortunate.

[62:18]

Unwholesome means unblessing. Not good. Good is for you to judge. So... And the feedback from the confession is not so much that she says, well, what about the piggies and stuff like that? Have you read Charlotte's Web? Anyway, that's not really the kind of person you want to go confess to primarily. You want to confess to somebody who's really just trying to understand you. And they're not trying to influence you. In other words, they've renounced you being other than you are. They're mostly... are mostly on the side of you being who you are because they feel that if you would really realize who you are, you will be liberated completely. And part of who you are is how you feel when you eat that hot dog or when you buy that hot dog. I actually like the taste of pork myself. I like the taste of ham. Especially when it's smoked and stuff.

[63:21]

But when I think of those pigs, you know, I just can't bring myself to buy those that... grilled ham and grilled ham and cheese sandwich that they have at Denny's when I drive back from Taosahara I buy all these Denny's I just can't bring myself to buy maybe somebody else can and practice renunciation This is Fu, maybe? Yeah, it's a little bit in the same line that Lee was just asking. In terms of why you're sitting there and your meditation, there are all these phenomena that are arising, light and coolness and non-virtue. And I'm wondering what the mark, how the mark of non-virtue attaches to, let's say, anger. Anger itself is not non-virtue. Anger is not non-virtue?

[64:23]

I'm thinking that anger isn't... necessarily non-virtue. Not necessarily. But what is it that twists it? What is it that imbalances any phenomenon so that you thereby are able to perceive it as non-virtue? What's the twist on a phenomenon that we then distinguish as non-virtue? You just said it hurts. No, no. Hurts is a result of attachment. So is the clinging, is that the primary? That's the primary, yeah, clinging is primary, yeah. So, like again, Norman was talking about the, yesterday, about the connection between self and pain, right? And I, I don't know, oh, he's saying that the pain comes from

[65:28]

from desire, and desire is connected to self. Right? But, it's also, self is connected to ignorance. So, in the sense that, if you, the self, the self that's handled skillfully, you know, without ignorance, the well-handled, the well-dealt-with self, is not good or bad. Anger, once it's manifested, how is it dealt with? Usually, I don't know usually, actually I haven't taken a sentence on this, but when anger arises out of attachment, then it's inappropriate anger. When anger arises out of attachment, it's inappropriate anger. If anger should arrive out of selfless confession, it would be appropriate anger.

[66:30]

Attachment is claiming. That's the fundamental. And attachment is based on ignorance because you think there's something there to attach to. Self is a very dangerous commodity. But we have this self around all the time. The issue is, for me, how to handle it skillfully. And one way to handle it skillfully, the beginning of handling it skillfully, is to admit, interpsychically, unskillful handling of the self. To admit how you attach to it and protect it and cling to it and cherish it and defend against attacks on it and all that. All the things that arise out of unskillful ways of dealing with the self. Once I admit my unskillful ways of dealing with the self, I'm starting to work my way towards a skillful way of dealing with the self.

[67:36]

A skillful way of dealing with the self is to renounce the self. Renounce the self just like you renounce your thinking. Just drop it. Don't meddle with it. If we don't meddle with self, then the anger that arises out of a person is that she doesn't meddle with herself. Not meddling with yourself doesn't mean you don't work with yourself. It means you handle yourself just right. So, you know, the word for wholesome in Buddhism is kushala. which comes from the word kusa, which is grass, the sharp grass. And Buddha has told his monks to make their meditation seats out of this sharp grass, blades of this grass, which you cut yourself on. It's very good, makes very good meditation seats. But if you handle it improperly, you cut yourself. Self makes very good meditation seats. Matter of fact, it is an unavoidable meditation seat.

[68:44]

You must make your meditation seat on yourself. But in collecting yourselves to sit on, you can get cut. And collecting these selves that you sit on develops skill. You learn by improperly handling yourself, you cut yourself, you cut yourself, you cut yourself over and over and over. And every time you take a hold of the self, Every time you sit on yourself, every time you meet yourself, every time you think of yourself, every time you deal with yourself, unskillfully, and you admit, I cut myself. That was unskillful. That was unskillful. I grasped too hard. I grasped too soft. It's like a sword, you know. There's ways of working with swords, skillfully, so you won't cut yourself. But usually, you learn by quite a few mistakes. So handling ourself, we learn by many mistakes. So the word... Skillful means skillfully handling dangerous material. It means skillfully handling self and attachments to self and attachments to other things.

[69:49]

The first step in developing skill is to admit unskilled. Admit, that was unskillful. I cut myself. That was sloppy. I didn't pay attention to which side the blade was on. You know? I ignored the self. I didn't really like just look at it. I was sloppy. So I just want to tell you whether I could do it today or not. There are four afflictions of having a self, which I'd like to tell you about. Which you need to become aware of. It's like the four, you know, instead of just having a double-edged sword, the self is like a four-pronged burr. We need to learn how to handle this these four dimensions of affliction of self, we need to develop skill with handling the self. It's not skillful to, like, wrap that thing up and bury it. You have to sit on this burr. But there's a skillful way of doing it.

[70:52]

See, first of all, you have to be aware of the sharpnesses. Okay, Elena? Um, In being unskillful, and you cut yourself, and then you admit the cutting, I've cut myself. Yes. And in self-confession, I mean, we were just talking before about confession in relation to that person. Yes. How about just by grabbing the I'm wrong ball and saying, God, I just, I'm going to grab the I'm wrong ball. Yes, all right. And the cycle that I can do, the spiraling. Yes. And saying, I'm sorry to myself. Yes. Is that part of just, and I guess the sitting, the zazen, and letting things roll off of you, in that aspect of just letting, like a time, is that where the patience comes in? Can I say something? You said letting things roll off you, okay? The first thing to do is to admit what doesn't roll off you, okay? By admitting that didn't roll off me, you know, I got stuck there, I held there, and I got cut.

[72:01]

or bogged down, or lost my vitality, or got overheated. Admitting where it doesn't roll off, then you're upright again, and then you settle into the state where things are rolling off. Now, I just couldn't pass that up. No. And I'm not sure exactly what you mean by the question. It's just in relationship to how you're thinking about putting yourself off the hook, apologizing to yourself. Generally speaking, generally speaking, I don't let myself off the hook. I'm let off the hook. And if I admit... what I've done wrong, if I admit my unwholesome behavior, if I admit my non-virtue, it doesn't necessarily right away let me off.

[73:07]

And that usually means I haven't done it all the way yet. When I do something and I feel bad about it, and then I start to admit what I did, I start to get into it, and it doesn't drop, then I go farther. And usually when I get to a certain point, it drops. And if it doesn't drop then, even then, when I feel like I've really done a good job, then I go confess to somebody else, and then they often point out, maybe, what about that? And then when that comes in, then it drops. But when you, you know, when you fully admit it, you've done your job. I mean, a Buddha could do no better than you when you admit your non-virtue. the Buddha was now put into the body of a person who had just, or had sometime done a non-virtue, all a Buddha could do at that time would be to admit it. That would be the awake thing to do. And if you do it all the way, you wake up. So you don't release yourself, the confession releases you.

[74:10]

And if confession doesn't release you, You haven't really got the hang of confession yet. Confession is to release. It's for your benefit and the welfare of all others. Dick. Yeah. So something about Lee's story and the reasoning that I'm not getting, I think. Let me tell another story, an analysis to that. This is something that I imagine Lee's in solidarity, and I have a grievance against Lee, so I'm going to bop him next time I see him. Yes. So I say, you know what, well, I'm really sorry, I really want to bop him. So I confess that to Gail. Yes. Just getting a little dizzy. And Gail, you know, Excuse me, this is no good advice. So the next time I see you, I really regret it, but I do bop you. Yes. Well, why isn't all that circular easy? Well, I didn't see why you would bop Lee after confessing... I really regret that I wanted to bop you, but I go ahead and bop you.

[75:11]

But then you've just done... Was it good that you bopped him? Did it help Lee? It didn't help leave, but it sort of relieved me. You felt relieved? Did you feel good afterwards? No, I felt good, but I felt... I got rid of those feelings. Yeah, well, I mean, this is for, you know, so then you would note that you bop leave. And if you don't feel bad about it, then that's where you're at. That's where you're at. I mean, I can't come in and say, now, look, Dick, you should feel bad about bopping me. That's not for me to come in and tell you that. If you don't feel bad, you know, maybe Lee would come in and say, no, really, you should feel bad. How did you feel about bopping me, Dick? And you say, well, I actually felt pretty good about it. And Lee might say, well, you know, I don't think you should feel so good about this, so now I'm going to bop you. Okay, Nick, and you might say, well, no.

[76:14]

And he said, well, I'm going to do it anyway. So he goes, bop. And then you feel bad. Maybe he bops you real hard. So then you start feeling bad. So then you say, hmm, I didn't feel bad after I bopped him, but now I feel bad. That's interesting. And it might be as far as it goes at that point. Thank you. I'm not talking about that you should feel bad about what you do. Sometimes you munch on what you do and you don't feel bad. That's what's happening. That's what we have to work with. Not that you should be a different person. Okay? We have to work with what we've got. And that will be sufficient if we do it thoroughly. Okay? The situation will reveal the information. Yes. I have trouble with thoroughness in confession, okay? Yes. And I think part of that is because my mental patterns change so quickly that maybe I say to myself, I'm meddling, I noticed that.

[77:22]

Yes. And then it's quickly followed by, maybe I'm not meddling. No, no, no, no. Maybe meddling's okay, and then... Yeah, but... Yeah, but... You can get that stuff very fast. You notice you're meddling, okay? Then you're followed by what? Maybe I'm not. What is maybe I'm not meddling? What is that? It's a judgment. Huh? I think it's a judgment. Right. And if you actually think that that's true... then you're meddling again. In fact, the trouble with thorough confession is that it is very intense and non-stop. But it isn't that you necessarily have to go into great detail about admitting that you're meddling. It's actually just admitting and meddling that that's enough. That's off. That's enough. As a matter of fact, that's one of the problems of overdoing the confession is you miss the next error. Some people, if that's one thing that they're comfortable with for weeks, they miss all these other errors.

[78:26]

It's actually better just to note it just as it is and go on. Upright. When you're upright, you notice the next fall. Minute. Up. Minute. Up. Back. Up. Like that. Constantly noticing that you're off. That's how, you know, a high wire artist works. They're constantly off. Off, off, [...] off. That's how they stay up there in the wind with the, you know, roller skates and stuff. Is that they manage, for a while anyway, to notice in a, you know, in a period of a few minutes, millions of errors, which they then notice, and by noticing them, they stay upright. It's very hard work. And so you have to be very enthusiastic to practice confession thoroughly. And now there's so many hands, I don't know, you know. I guess whoever thinks they should talk next, go ahead. M.O.O.? Can you describe again the state which is non-karma producing, and does that include not harming anyone, or what if others feel harmed in this?

[79:40]

Is that a state of absolute non-action, non-self? No. Of course not moving, true not moving, is not karma. If you don't even not think that you're doing something, you don't even have the thought of not doing something, in a state of no thought, what is it? What is the name? A monk said to Yuen Mun, if there's not a moment of thought, if there's not the slightest movement of thought, is there any fault? And Yuen Mun said, Mount Sumeru. So, it's not just that I think, it's not the state of, you know, some kind of state. It's that when I have admitted what I am, and I'm settled into just simply being what I am, at that time, all things come forward and realize my next action.

[80:42]

I'm not doing it. The world realizes action through me. Now, if someone would say at that time, I'm hard, a person who's at the place of the world realizing action through her will certainly, you know, regard that cry with a whole heart and wonder what this is. But the idea is anyway that this is enlightened action and it's not karma because the person is not in denial either, like, I didn't do that. They know something happened and they're totally enraptured with the action that's happened. They have been, you know, wrapped by all things and all things are using this person to act. Like sometimes we have that thing, you know, sometimes we just speak for the whole community. Somehow we don't know how it happens, but we just, a word comes out of it, and everybody says, thank you, you know. It wasn't our, it wasn't my personal karmic power that did it.

[81:44]

It was on behalf of all beings that that action came. And such action emerges from a person who settles into her karma, who accepts, I am a karmic being, I do think in terms of I can do things, I admit that. That brings me upright. In other words, I'm upright, I'm honest, I'm just like everybody else. Now, settle there. And from that place, undeliberated, spontaneous Zen action comes up. And it is not only not harmful, it is not harmful to anyone, absolutely not harmful, but it is extremely beneficial. in the most beneficial way because it shows people freedom. And what kind of freedom? The freedom of a karmic person. And how does a karmic person become free? By completely settling into her karma. Just like Shakyamuni Buddha sat under the boat tree and completely, finally settled into his ordinary human being.

[82:51]

And from that came his realizations. And it was not just harmless. Another way to put it is, by admitting how harmful I am, that's how I become harmless. Anybody who doesn't admit that they're harmful, that they have been harmful to themselves and others, is going to be harmful more, and doesn't have much of a chance of doing harmless or beneficial action. There's a whole bunch of questions in it, and it's 10.15, so it's kind of a problem. See Galen. Yeah, if you have a problem, see Galen. And I want to, I think maybe, I want to talk about these four afflictions of self. Maybe next time.

[83:55]

I can say them, yeah. Four afflictions. As soon as the sense of self arises, four afflictions arise, which are self-ignorance, self-view, self-pride, and self-love. Or self-esteem, I would say. And self-love. These are the four afflictions. I think it's good to use the word esteem and pride because... because it's very important these days for people to have self-esteem, right? And I agree that it is. And the main reason why it's important for us to have self-esteem is because we do have self-esteem. It is a natural thing for human beings to have. But it has been beaten out of us, so most of us have gone into hiding on that one. If not safe to admit that one. That's why part of the confession is to go to somebody who you can trust won't trash you if you show them your self-esteem.

[85:03]

This practice of confession is really something. And I just want to point out also that in our ordination ceremony, after confession, we do an anointment. We anoint the person. So, you might think about, what does it mean to get anointed after you admit that you're human? What kind of an anointment is that? What's that water about sprinkling on these people who have just confessed? They're beginningless, ancient, twisted karma. What's that about? And I guess that's part of the thing, is that when I confess, do I feel that water, that wisdom water sprinkling down on me? That water's wisdom water, the wisdom of the Buddhas, sprinkling down on my head, sprinkling down on our head when we admit that we're human. So refreshing

[86:24]

Megan.

[86:34]

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