Once again, the title of this series of classes is Calm Abiding and Complete Wisdom. So maybe in these classes we'll learn something about calm abiding and complete wisdom. And in the process, one way of approaching learning about calm abiding and complete wisdom is to become, in some sense, reflective on the process of learning about these aspects of meditation. In other words, part of what we can learn is how we learn.

[01:03]

So I hope we can learn about how we learn about calm abiding and complete wisdom. Sometimes these meditations are taught without the practitioners becoming aware of how they learned. But I think it actually helps sometimes, especially in wisdom teachings, to be aware of what you're going through as you're learning. Because actually that's part of what wisdom is about. We can break up the process and we can learn individually, we can learn and study calm abiding or samadhi or complete relaxation.

[02:11]

Different names for the same thing. And then we can learn about wisdom and how we learn wisdom. Tonight, rather than spend the whole time learning about relaxation or calm abiding, I'd like to talk about it a little bit and then also talk a little bit about the wisdom side. I already did talk about it a little bit while we were sitting quietly. I said something about clearly observing whatever happens and meeting it while giving up any expectations and also giving up memory

[03:30]

And I talked about sounds, because there's lots of sounds, a variety of sounds coming to us while we're sitting. There's someone next door speaking some sounds like Middle Eastern language on her cell phone in the backyard. There's a dog that's barking, and the bark of the dog is kind of a strident bark. Did you notice that dog bark? Still barking. And then there's the piano playing for the ballet class, airplanes and street traffic. Those were some of the sounds that were occurring and still are. So there arises the experience of these sounds, and they might also arise very quickly in relationship to some evaluation of those sounds. I noticed when I was listening to the sounds of the dog, it's a little bit irritating the kind of bark it is.

[04:51]

That's my response. I don't feel like, oh, it's such a cute bark. It's more like, oh, it's kind of a strident, somewhat unhappy bark. And it hurts a little bit for me to hear it. So there was actually hearing the sound of the dog and also feeling some, in my mind, evaluating that and in a kind of pain, as an unpleasant type of dog bark. Some dog barks are very pleasant. In other words, the mind evaluates them that way. Hearing the sound, the mind very quickly or simultaneously evaluating it positively or negatively or neutrally. This is something that came up in my experience. And while I was sitting, I was just trying to relax with it. It means allowing the dog bark.

[05:57]

Letting go of any wish that it would stop. or impulse towards wishing it would stop, not expecting it to stop, not expecting it to continue, giving all that up. Also giving up, and this is somewhat more difficult, give up the memory of the dog bark. In other words, give up thinking of how long it's been going on. And the music also is very difficult to give up the memory of the music, to just hear each note. When this type of music, as you may have noticed, sometimes it seems like he's intentionally making it challenging for the dancers. Other times it's sort of easy to follow. Did you notice? And when it's easy to follow, then it's harder to relax with it, in a way. It's harder not to start following it and remember what note came before and go along with it.

[07:06]

So to keep letting go of the past and future of the sound of music is sometimes difficult, especially if you find it pleasant. Kind of want to sort of ride with it and keep track of where it has been and where it might be going. Or if it's irritating, to hope that it will become more pleasant or stop. So disciplining our minds in this way training our attention to be with sound or touch your physical posture, feeling the physical, tangible sense of your physical posture, to be with that, to be with the mental images that are arising, to be with any restlessness or sleepiness or whatever, to be with all these phenomena as they arise and to observe them in a state of renunciation, promotes this relaxation and calm.

[08:12]

And also, as you listen to me talk to you about how to train your mind in calm, in a sense, if you're aware of how you're, I shouldn't say even if you're aware, but as you learn and understand the instructions, a certain type of wisdom is arising relative to the instructions about calm. So as you understand the instructions, as they start to make sense to you, as you change from a person who perhaps didn't understand these instructions, maybe who never heard these instructions, and then when first hearing them, not understanding them, and then you have some insight through hearing and thinking about what I said until you have a feeling, not just a feeling, but you actually understand the meditation instruction and can do it, or not do it, but it can happen because you understand.

[09:24]

There's a wisdom in the process of learning calm practices. And the wisdom about how to practice calm can get deeper and deeper. And finally, there would be the deepest understanding of this calm practice where the understanding that you developed about the calm practice would be joined with the actual practice. That would be the deepest understanding, the deepest wisdom about the calming practice so that we go through a we we can go through a process of evolving wisdom about a calming practice and now I've already mentioned but I'll I'll mention again how in the process of developing wisdom calm assists that development so wisdom assists the development of calm and calm assists the development of wisdom Buddha did teach Buddhas do teach calming practices

[10:52]

And also they teach how people learn calming practices and how calming practices are used to develop wisdom. But the calming practices that the Buddha taught, and generally speaking, most of the calming practices that are taught in the Buddhist tradition, you probably could find in other traditions. They're not particularly Buddhist. They're just about how the mind calms. Although there's a great variety, you might find almost all the different varieties that you find within the Buddhist tradition and other traditions. Some traditions, actually, their whole meditation practice is calming meditation. That's their whole path of getting deeper and deeper calm. because the deepest calm produces such an excellent state of consciousness that it seems to some people like the final religious goal.

[12:03]

It seems it seems so excellent and so blissful and so tranquil and so cool and the afflictions are so actually, at least temporarily, in that state, eliminated that it seems good enough to some people, to some actually excellent meditators. The Buddhist tradition is looking for more than just some calm or even profound calm. It's looking for actual transformation of the person into a Buddha. so that you actually see the world differently, understand the world differently. And because of that understanding, you act in a totally different dimension than you did when you saw the world in an unenlightened way prior to wisdom. So as we move into the wisdom teachings, which are understood best and fully realized when they're united with the calming teachings, calming practices.

[13:12]

The wisdom teachings will be teachings that you do not find in other traditions. It's a unique aspect. You find something of it in other traditions, but... there's some aspects about it that are unique to the Buddhist tradition. So the wisdom teachings are teachings which the Buddha gave from, that came from Buddha's wisdom. Buddha saw some things, realized some truths, and then when Buddha taught those truths, these are, you could say, the wisdom teachings. Buddha also saw how Buddha and the Buddhist disciples saw how they came to see the truth. So those are also, in some sense, auxiliary wisdom teachings about how they came to see the truth and how we can come to see the truth.

[14:14]

So the truth that the Buddhists saw or discovered is designated with certain words. The truth is not actually a word. It's not, you know, it's inexpressible, the actual truth, but yet the Buddha makes designations to help to guide us to the truth. The designations that the Buddha made were called the truth, he expressed the truth as the middle way. It's the truth about the way we actually are. It's the truth about how our life actually is. It's called, our life is actually, we live in a middle way, actually. That's what the Buddha found. We exist in a middle way.

[15:17]

And when we can see the middle way that we live, that we exist, we are at peace. But also called what he saw no self or selflessness. The middle way we are is also selfless. And he also called the middle way we are emptiness and he also called the middle way we are interdependence or dependent co-arising these are different slogans for what the Buddha's wisdom sees

[16:24]

And these are different ways that the Buddha hopes to open us to the wisdom and show it to us and help us awaken to it and enter it. So now I'm repeating what I've heard as wisdom teachings And as you listen to these wisdom teachings, you are starting to learn wisdom. And learning wisdom is the first phase of wisdom. So as I mentioned earlier, sometimes we talk about a million kinds of wisdom, but sometimes we talk about three kinds of wisdom. One kind of wisdom is the wisdom which arises from hearing.

[17:27]

Hearing or study. And so that's part of what's going on now in the room, I suppose. That you're hearing wisdom teachings, and we are studying these wisdom teachings now. the next level of wisdom will be reflecting on after we have some insight, after we actually are transformed by our understanding of some teaching, some wisdom teaching. In other words, some wisdom arises from a wisdom teaching. Then we reflect on that, on what we learned. We analyze it. We become creative with it. We play with it. and it gets deeper. And then the third level would be then to unite that understanding with samadhis, with concentrations, with calm practices that we've learned either alongside or separately from these wisdom practices.

[18:32]

So again, more details on an example of a wisdom practice from the early teachings of the Buddha, the Buddha said that, generally speaking, in the world, people think in terms of two extremes. In other words, two not-middle ways. One is that things exist, and the other is that they don't. And exist means really exist. Truly. The way they appear. And the other is that they totally don't. They completely don't exist. Those are two extremes that human minds go to. Of course, the first extreme of existence is an extreme that we're innately gifted by.

[19:40]

It's an innate gift. sometimes called naive realism. It's thinking that things, giving things more reality than they actually have. And this is innate. And some people learn to take the other extreme. Usually philosophers or yogis learn the other extreme. And so Buddha taught this middle way. Now this middle way again is this middle way which avoids these extremes of existence and non-existence is also called selflessness. and also called interdependence or dependent co-arising.

[20:46]

So the reason why things are not as real as we think they are is partly because they depend on other things. But if we ignore how things depend on other things, then we naturally ignore interdependence. So we're born with an ignorance, with a false view, with a misconception, which is closely related to ignoring interdependence. So we ignore interdependence and then For example, we ignore our interdependence with other beings and then we think we are much more real than we actually are. We turn away from the interplay by which we're created and then we feel more solid and more substantial and independently existing.

[21:58]

So this ignorance is innate. And the sense of this overly, this exaggerated sense of reality is innate. Same thing. So part of what will help us learn about these wisdom teachings will be to hear about and actually then start to be creative with the teaching of interdependence about things, our self, and our relationships. at the level of understanding this teaching of the middle way or interdependence we can understand it quite a bit just by me talking with you and you talking with me and pretty much literally taking it in so we can work on that now if you want to and I can also tell you before we move on from there

[23:37]

that then with this teaching, which we can apply to everything, ourselves and our relationships, but it might be useful to be clear about which arena we're looking at, that this teaching then can be more and more fully enacted as we start to enact the interrelationship between us as we're discussing and the relationship between us and the teaching as we're studying, which takes us to the next level of wisdom. And then also, as I mentioned before, this the learning the learning wisdom the development of wisdom comes along best learning comes along best optimally in a state of relaxation but it's a relaxation where there's a where there's mindfulness and alertness too must be some tone to the body and mind

[24:56]

So just being asleep isn't the optimal situation, although we can learn in sleep. It is possible. But the optimal situation is to be rather upright, alert, and more and more relaxed. That's the situation. So again, now that we're talking about truths, teachings of wisdom, which are teachings about truths that were seen, or visions of truth that were seen. Of course, there's a possibility for misunderstandings, mistakes, and falseness. In wisdom teachings, there can be that kind of issues that can arise. But the learning will go best if we can relax in the learning process where we could be mistaken about what we're learning.

[26:04]

So we need, I think, part of the confidence of the learning process would be that we, for example, that I assert and I affirm that mistakes are not something that we should be afraid of in learning about wisdom. Mistakes are not something we should be afraid of in learning about truth. Mistakes are not something we should hide. We don't need to hide them and we don't need to avoid them even. If I say that and you can have confidence that I feel that way, And probably it may be that other people here also feel that way. I don't know. We could check. This, I think, would be supportive of being relaxed with learning. Knowing that mistakes, as we say, we learn by our mistakes.

[27:13]

And mistakes are mistakes. But when you see a mistake as a mistake, that's wisdom. But when you see not a mistake as not a mistake, that's often delusion. Because, you know, it is a mistake and you don't see it as a mistake. Sometimes seeing not a mistake as not a mistake isn't delusion, but usually it is, until you're wise. Does that make sense? If you're deluded, then what you think is true is not. And so since most of us are somewhat deluded, a lot of the things we think are true are not. But we think they're true, so it's a delusion.

[28:15]

For example, we innately think that we're more real than we actually are. We innately think that we're not really interdependent with other beings. We had that innate misconception. But a lot of things we think are true are based on that, and they're not true, except that they appear to be that way. So mistakes are, generally speaking, quite helpful in learning how to get over your current state of development. And even if you do have some wisdom, the wisdom process doesn't stop. So you keep moving beyond it by noticing more mistakes. So another way to put this, I thought of besides mistakes, is

[29:23]

We don't need to be afraid of or hide or avoid being a fool. In studying wisdom, you don't need to worry about being a fool. If you're worried about being a fool in studying wisdom, that worry will interfere with the development of wisdom. It's still possible that wisdom will develop even if you're afraid of being a fool. But it'll develop much more quickly if you're not afraid of being a fool and also if you're not trying to hide being a fool. Now, if you're a fool and you try to hide it, that is more foolish than not hiding it. And if you're a fool and you're trying to avoid it, that's more foolish than just being a fool. So it's basically good to give up trying to hide or avoid being a fool.

[30:31]

If you're not a fool, it's a waste of time to try to hide it or avoid it. And if you are a fool, it's a waste of time to try to hide it or avoid it. And another way to put it is falling. Well, I would say falling aside from physical falling, falling in stature in the class or the teaching situation or the learning situation, falling in terms of self-respect or something like that, or respect of others. So here, too, I would affirm that you don't need to be afraid of falling not in terms of learning wisdom in terms of if it's important to you to have a high status in the community of people studying wisdom if that's important to you then it would make sense that you'd be afraid of falling and try to avoid falling and hide it hide that you fell if you did fall that might help maybe nobody will notice that your status just dropped

[31:54]

That might be good. But all that interferes with wisdom. And I think I mentioned here before that I used to play judo. When I was a senior in high school and a freshman in college, I played judo. And judo means gentle way. Ju is gentle and do is the way. But I thought that... Also, judo can mean entering the way. And when we played judo, we also called playing judo. The first thing we learned to do was fall. So that if we did fall, we wouldn't get hurt. If you can't fall in judo, it's almost impossible to learn. The more skillfully you can fall, generally speaking, the faster you learn.

[33:05]

Because the more skillfully you fall, the less you're afraid of falling, the more you're not concerned with falling, and so you can play freely. And if you get thrown, when you get thrown, you usually learn something. Usually you learn something when you're thrown and when you fall. Now, if you fall just by tripping, or if you fall by your own moves, you also learn from that. But when someone else throws you, you learn when you're thrown. You learn by seeing what they did and how they did it and how it felt to go. You learn that way. And the people who... do not want to fall, either are afraid of falling, or do not want to be thrown and fall, those people do not learn. They're very rigid, and they're always trying to stop people from throwing them. Now, of course, in a match, part of the way you win a match is by throwing the other person and not getting thrown. And if you watch the masters playing, oftentimes they are kind of resisting each other.

[34:12]

But to get to the place where they can actually not be thrown by each other, they have to be thrown thousands and thousands of times. And of course, throw thousands, throw other people thousands of times too, but I thought that was very good that they taught that early on, that you have to flow with the situation. But again, it's easy to say, yeah, flow, sure. But it's not so easy to actually flow when you know you're going to get thrown unless you feel comfortable being thrown. And if you have some understanding of these teachings and you don't feel comfortable expressing your understanding because you might fall in the status of the group or in your own status or you might be a fool or you might make a mistake then you won't learn. very much you can learn a little bit by resisting but not much it's always possible to learn even if you totally resist the process sometimes it sometimes it just works out miraculously that you violate all the rules and still you know and that's fine too but aside from these great gracious moments in order to promote the possibility of learning we need to uh

[35:40]

we need to stop worrying about being a fool falling and making mistakes and maybe some of you won't be a fool it's possible but the point is that you're not afraid of being a fool being a fool is not the point making mistakes is not the point falling is not the point Learning is the point. Learning the truth is the point. So maybe we won't be any of these things, but if we're afraid of them, that will interfere with our learning a lot because we'll tense up and then we won't be able to enact interdependence ultimately. We won't be able to act like someone would act if they understood selflessness When we believe in a self, generally speaking, we trip up on that.

[36:49]

We take ourselves too seriously. So relaxing is already eroding our belief in our tremendous reality. So maybe that's enough for starters. Yes? At the risk of being a fool, Linda. Get this on tape. This is Linda talking. We want to verify on tape that no matter what she says, we'll support her. Something you said earlier just started my mind thinking about two truths in a different way than I thought about them. So I'm still kind of working this out. The two truths are another wisdom teaching. She's bringing up another wisdom teaching that came to her mind.

[37:52]

I think of it in terms of conventional reality and ultimate reality. Yes, that's the two truths, conventional reality and ultimate reality. And then when you were talking about naive realism, I usually think of conventional reality in terms of naive realism. I realized that I was thinking of those two things in a very dualistic way. And then when you talked about the Buddha teaching the middle way, I always thought of that as being able to somehow walk between these two opposites. He's not really saying that. He's saying there is no opposite. He's saying that in a way there's this third chair that's in the middle. There's what appears to us innately to be conventional reality that's really empty.

[39:02]

Great. You're welcome. Yes, Rana? A middle way of making mistakes? Yes. I don't know what you mean by it, but I see a middle way of making mistakes is that mistakes do not... exist all by themselves, and they also don't totally not exist. They're also selfless. So we can talk about the middle way about mistake. The middle way applies to all things, including mistakes. But what did you mean by the middle way of mistakes? Could it be true that sometimes we just justify that, okay, I'm making mistakes, you know, I fought, so I just sit down so I don't do it because I know I would make a mistake?

[40:10]

Yeah, that's similar to being afraid of making a mistake. So, you know, don't do anything, and maybe you won't make a mistake. Of course, that's a mistake. You just made a mistake, but maybe that's the last one you'll make. That's called catatonia. So, yeah, so that's what people do. Sometimes they make mistakes, say, okay, I'm not going to play anymore. because I made a mistake. So we need to encourage ourselves and others to get up off the mat. What do you call it? Pick yourself up. Dust yourself off. Start all over again. That kind of spirit of let's take another step. And remember that when you make a mistake and you acknowledge the mistake, that's wisdom. And sometimes it's good to acknowledge a mistake to another practitioner to see if you acknowledge it accurately.

[41:19]

Because sometimes we over-acknowledge the mistake or under-acknowledge the mistake. But to correctly acknowledge a mistake just as it really is, that's a wisdom. That's an act of wisdom. And the teaching turns forward on that acknowledgement. But to make a mistake... and acknowledge it but then say, I'm not going to play anymore, you miss another chance, another wisdom, another chance to do something and have that be another mistake which you then could again practice wisdom with by simply noticing that that's a mistake. But did I miss your middle way? I'm trying to understand. It's like if I go somewhere and someone says something and I feel the rush to just answer them, right?

[42:23]

And then I start breathing and say, okay, I'm not going to retaliate. Or whatever, I just pass my next time. Because I don't want to repeat the same mistake. I didn't hear a mistake, though, in what you said. In the story you just told, I didn't hear the mistake. What was the mistake? You said you met... Oh, I see. So, you met someone, they did something which you didn't like, so then you retaliated. You took revenge on them. So that happened once. Okay. And the next time that I see that person... Yes? So, I hesitate. You hesitate to retaliate or you hesitate to go near them? To repeat the same mistake. You hesitate to repeat the same mistake? Well, then it sounds like you learned something from that previous mistake.

[43:23]

Previously, you didn't hesitate to take revenge. Right? Because you thought that's really what they deserved, right? But that was a mistake. Taking revenge is usually a mistake. Usually. Usually. Usually. But then, so you saw. You didn't hesitate. You thought it would be a good idea. You thought various things that supported you to take revenge. Then you saw that it was a mistake. So you learned. And the next time, in a similar situation, you hesitated. Because you learned before that all the revenge still has some positive aspects to it. You saw the negative. You saw the mistake side of it. So you hesitated. That's fine. Maybe you now hesitated, but you didn't do it, too. You hesitated and actually let it pass. Pardon?

[44:29]

I was not very clear in my mind in what I wanted to say, but I wanted to just share and try to say something. And did you? Because I spoke without having very clear mind. Did you share something with us? You did? Did you learn something in your sharing? Yes. What did you learn? I learned to be more patient and really open my mouth when I have something to share, not here. Okay. That's a word, sir. Nancy?

[45:48]

I don't think it's that easy to dust yourself off and get back onto the mat. I find it very difficult. And when you say we should encourage someone to get back on the mat, what would that look like? What is it just saying, get back on the mat? What does it look like? I feel that I'm a person who is afraid to fall. Uh-huh. Who does not like to make mistakes. Okay, so how can we learn to fall? I guess, again, using an example of falling, like in learning Judo, the teacher says... first of all, that if you get better at falling, you won't get hurt when you fall so much. So learning how to fall well is good. But the other thing is to have confidence in the situation and confidence in the teaching that falling is actually in itself a learning experience.

[47:08]

That you do learn something every time you fall. And if you cushion yourself really well, then you learn, oh, I didn't make a mistake the way I fell. That was a really good fall. It did hurt a bit. Or maybe I should move my elbow out flatter next time so I don't put so much weight on the tip of my elbow but put more weight on my forearm. So actually in the falling you learn how to fall better. So again, in making mistakes... can you think of a way that actually in the making the mistake and in the impact of the mistake, the consequences of the mistake, that you learn to do that in a way that you get better and better at that? Do you have any idea how to do that? Well, when you fall,

[48:15]

The way you do a good fall is that you really get into the fall. It's not a good fall just to fall on your elbow. Or in my case, it wasn't a good idea for me to fall primarily on my greater trochanter because there was such a tremendous shock to that part of the bone that sticks out that it shattered my femur. It would have been better, but I was not fast enough if I had used my forearm and my other arm if I could, too. That would have lessened the impact on that one point there. I would have gotten more into the fall, but I didn't participate in the fall very fully, so I got hurt. So in a physical fall, the more you get into it, the more of your body that you use to meet the earth... the better the fall and the less shock there is to the system because it's spread out over your thigh, your ribs, your upper arm even maybe, your forearm.

[49:27]

You don't use your head usually. And even your other hand if you're landing on your side. If it's on the back, you try to use the back of your thighs, not just your butt, your upper back and both your arms. So the more you get into the fall, the better fall it is. And the less it bothers you that you did it. So the same with some other kind of mistake. The more you can get into it, the fullest way you can get into it, will be most educational and make you less afraid of another one. So human beings, a lot of mistakes we make, we make with our mouth. So when you make a mistake with your mouth, you can also then acknowledge with your mouth, you can get more into the mistake by saying, you know, I think I just made a mistake.

[50:29]

And here's, and would you like to hear about the mistake I think I made? And people are often interested. So then you can tell. And if you do it fully, you feel much better, they feel much better, and although you made a mistake, you recovered very well by a clear acknowledgement of it. A lot of people make mistakes, of course. Right? but how many people are good at acknowledging them? This is a great spiritual practice, to clearly, fully acknowledge the mistake, just like it was. That's wisdom. And it makes it, and you still feel some, there's still some impact of falling, but it doesn't hurt you. And also you feel, when you stand up again, you feel more like, if that happens again, I hope I do that well again.

[51:32]

It isn't so bad that way. Does that make some sense to you? Not totally. Not totally. Yeah, we're learning here. Jenny? Is it Jenny? Jenny and Judith? I just want to share that in my mind a horrifying mistake with clients. And I wanted to die. And I actually apologized. And the act of apologizing brought me intimacy with a business person, the spirit of healing. So now I look at the stakes, brought me through the system, and the way to increase intimacy in the business arena, which I already thought, if I said the other person could respond, that point should I add that level? And if I could add to that, in that way, you learn from your mistakes, it promotes intimacy, which means you learn from your mistakes

[52:58]

more about how to benefit and learn from your mistakes, but also you learn more about the ultimate truth that we're trying to learn here. And also, you can also learn from other people's mistakes. You can learn from your own, you can also learn from others. But you don't usually learn from others by acknowledging their mistakes. It's more like you see the mistake and then it teaches you something. So the partner to acknowledging your own mistakes is to acknowledge other people's good work. That's sort of the pair to it. And in judo, you acknowledge it by you've just been thrown well You partly make it a good throw by making a good fall.

[54:03]

So making mistakes, especially when the teacher makes a mistake, is often a time when the student really learns. Especially when the teacher... when it's clear that the teacher made a mistake. If the teacher makes a mistake and hides it, it's really bad because the student then sees the mistake, and then the teacher says there wasn't, and the student gets really confused. It looked like a mistake, but the teacher says there wasn't, so maybe. So then sometimes the student just denies their own reality. But when the teacher makes a mistake, the student sees the mistake, and then the teacher admits it. That's sometimes a better learning experience than when the teacher does something right and the student sees it, or when the student does something right and the student sees it, or even when the student makes a mistake and acknowledges it to the teacher. Yes? She was very agitated, and she said that she was up this far away, and a kid through there, and a man had come to bring her to the city to try to get a job, but then we had taken her someplace to try to rape her.

[55:28]

And so she didn't have her way to go home, which was lucky, and she needed $60 for probably not much money. She said, well, it's OK if you can come out and get the money out of the bank, which I don't know how to do. And she showed me how to do it. And I gave them the money, and she said she sent me the money back. And I was going home, and I thought, maybe she was lying. And I felt like a fool. And then I got home, and my friend was there, and I told him the story. And he said, well, which mistake would you probably make? Would you probably make the mistake of being out that $60 a year before? I met the same way. You met her too?

[56:33]

Yes? Because sometimes I've heard that I know how to do it, but I've heard that sometimes If we really are not grateful that we have a sense that they are acting and achieving us, and participate, and then that happened, we could create a bad situation, right? I mean, I didn't think that possibility that she wasn't telling you the truth didn't come into my mind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, if you think they're lying, you might be wrong, but if you think they're lying, then you go with that.

[57:37]

And that might be a mistake too. But even if the person is lying, you can work with that also. But you thought she was telling the truth. Yes. Well, I think that To make a mistake and then to get into some, maybe some comment on you, the person, on top of, so it's such and such a mistake, plus you're now making a comment on yourself in addition to that thing. So we can't back out of that now.

[58:40]

That's already happened, all right? So is that another mistake? Is that another mistake? Okay, so now how do we, like, do that fully? Hmm? So how can you do that fully? Just see it. Well, see it, but what else? You just told me about it. That's more. Yeah. And I guess, yes, comment to myself that maybe that additional comment is necessary. You can say that it's not necessary, that's okay. But after it happened, it may be not necessary to do it in the future. It's necessary that it happened that time. But that's how you learn that some of these things aren't necessary, is first of all to see that they're negative, and then also see that actually it doesn't really help any.

[59:41]

Maybe you see it doesn't really help. to add that on to the mistake. Sometimes I've seen people who make mistakes and actually, by getting into the negative self-judgment, they actually distract themselves from registering the mistake. If they would just be quiet, they'd see it more clearly. Now, what I've done in some cases, I did one time, someone had one of my robes and they dropped it in the mud one of my precious Buddhist robes I dropped in the mud. So I did a judgment. And I saw how my judgment really distracted the person from registering that they just dropped something that was really valuable to me on the ground. And I learned, now it's not true with everybody, but I learned in this particular case that if I would say nothing, really, or even like, you know, even dramatized say nothing, like, go.

[61:00]

That that would leave this other person the opportunity to, like, just look at what they did. And that's more important than me getting in there and making comments. Now, with a child, a child like hits you or something, and they don't understand that it hurt you, then you tell them that it hurt you, so that they see the consequences. But if you judge them on top of it, then they can't register so clearly what you just told them, namely that they hurt you. But anyway, sometimes it happens so fast, the judgment comes in so fast that it's all over. But then you can notice several things there. One is that it kind of distracts you from registering the mistake and getting the full impact of it. Again, if you fall and you're making comments on the fall, like, oh, I got thrown again, you're not going to be as present when you hit the ground.

[62:02]

If you're talking to yourself as you're going. Now, once you hit, you can also make comments then. But if you're If you're doing it as you're falling, or as you hit, it distracts you from being fully engaged in the mistake. But if it happens, it happens, then you can notice that it kind of blurred the mistake, and it's another mistake. But then maybe that one, you can fully take that one. And if you fully take that one, you can learn from that one. And the next time, maybe it'll just be the mistake. And then you can learn better from the mistake. And you see, oh yeah, I learned. That was like cleaner. It was the same mistake or even a worse mistake. But it was so clean and I could see so clearly. I had a really clear vision of what it was. And then you start to develop wisdom about the mistake. Because you're starting to see it clearly. And then you start to see it clearly. You start to see... You start to be able to play with it and start to be able to see how it's an interdependent event.

[63:06]

And you start to see how it's even mistakes. I should say even mistakes, but everything is the middle way. Everything exists in the middle way. Mistakes happen in the middle way. Correct actions happen in the middle way. Everything is a middle way. So we don't want to, like, cross out a big section of our life from the middle way by, you know, reacting to it so we can't see it. But, of course, we do the same thing on the other side. When something good happens, if we react to it, then we miss that too. Yes? I think you wanted to answer my question. I don't know how to phrase it. be the sense of, on the one hand, I kind of see more skillful, less reactive, calmer. But I see that as kind of gradualism or environmental process.

[64:11]

And on the other hand, I see kind of a talk about the transformation of wisdom. And I was having trouble seeing the relationship between those. But you kind of seemed like you were talking about it plays more still with this interdependence. But it's just, I still have trouble not seeing it as Not that there's anything wrong, but it was a process of just working at more skillful. But still, I'm thinking about the transformation aspect there. I can't say it very clearly, but we're talking about a process that just gave me really skillful. We're talking about a process of becoming skillful, yes. And there's a sudden aspect to it all in the sense that one meaning of sudden is like fast, is like a temporal sudden.

[65:26]

Another kind of sudden is that we're talking about what already is. And we're simply trying to prepare ourselves in a gradual way, maybe, just to be ready for the truth. So these relaxation practices or calming practices help us be ready or help us let go of our resistance to the intimacy that's already there. We don't have to make the interdependence. We just sort of have to stop resisting it. And stopping the resistance seems to be gradual. We seem to like we need to sort of cultivate or massage ourselves gradually into like being totally unresistant to what's coming and how it's coming. The transformation sometimes, the wisdom sometimes happens very fast.

[66:28]

Changes our understanding can happen very fast. But preparing the ground for it takes time. It seems to happen in time. After the wisdom arises, we start to see the time situation differently than we did as we were going through the process. And ultimately, finally, we see that there wasn't really a process that was just sort of part of an artifact of the way we understood before we were going through this process. We really weren't going anywhere. We were always here, but we'd been resisting it all along. Yeah. Was there another hand over there? Yes? Another mistake scenario of when we were sitting, I was just totally engrossed in that conversation going on on my cell phone. And it was weird because, I mean, sometimes maybe I realized that my mind just wandered and said that I sit back and sort of let go of that thought.

[67:34]

And in this case, there was just no way I was going to let go. So I could see that I'm listening and I'm listening. It's like I just kept repeating a mistake and watching myself make a mistake, not being willing to stop making a mistake. So we're going to be aware that leaves me in this following process. Well, the more you could relax with this mistake of getting so into that, the more you relax with that, the more you learn by that series of mistakes. But if you don't relax, then you made another mistake. If you're into the conversation and you relax with it, then you'll learn about being into the conversation. You'll learn better how that happens. And the more you see how you get into the conversation, the more you see what it would be like if you weren't. Experts on letting go are people who have studied holding on a long time.

[68:40]

Holding on is natural. It's instinctive. It's an instinctive, you know, gripping with the hands and gripping with the mind for humans is instinctive. So everybody can do it with normal neurological equipment. Those who let go are those who have studied the process of grasping thoroughly. So if you can sit there and watch how your mind sort of hooks on to some things rather than others or nothing, The more you watch that, the more you learn how it's an illusion. And the more you can relax with this trip you go on of getting involved with this conversation, the faster you're going to learn that. Now, if you don't relax with it, that will slow it down. But then if you can relax with the fact that you're not even relaxing with that, then you'll learn how necessary it is to relax in order to learn what you need to learn.

[69:45]

So the being aware is good, because although you're not relaxed maybe, you're registering, this learning process is registering on you, and part of what's registering on you is that, you know, the rate it's going, and when you hear instructions to relax, you see, hmm, I'm not doing that. And maybe I would learn faster. Maybe I wouldn't repeat it quite as many times. Who knows? So there's grasping and then there's reacting to the grasping. But there's also times of grasping and being relaxed with it. Say, hey, I'm totally hung up here. Nope. I mean, I completely accept it. In other words, you fall. You say, okay, I'm hooked on that conversation. Which I really don't think is such a good idea to be so involved in this. I don't even know what she's talking about, but I'm totally involved in it. I don't need to know what you're talking about, do I? You can hook on to anything. It's amazing. So you're learning about attachment. You're learning about it. You can grasp anybody's conversation in any language.

[70:53]

Because all phenomena for you are graspable. So you're learning that something about your mind clings to your version of whatever is happening. That's part of the story. The more you study that, the more you understand. If we bring relaxation to it, we learn faster. And then as we learn more and more, then finally when we learn pretty much all we need to learn, then the relaxation and so on that we've been developing then comes to take it even into our body completely and transform us more thoroughly even than we could do by this more observing type of meditation. So this is what it's like, okay? Right here in the yoga room with this lady next door. Yes, Dorit? Dorit?

[71:54]

Yes? Yes? They invite you in? I don't know if they invite me in, but in other words, they'll interpret things I do in a very negative life, even though I may not have attended it. At work, sometimes that might happen. Yes? So if someone has a negative interpretation of something I do, do I just smile and relax with it? Do I fight and argue with it? Do I just go, OK. What is relaxing with that?

[73:01]

What is relaxing when someone tells me how they're thinking about me and And what I hear them saying is that they feel negatively or they feel negatively about what they see me doing or what they think of me. How do I relax with that? Well, I don't know. But I think it is possible. to do so. But I don't exactly know how you do it. But I think it is possible to relax with someone thinking badly of you. What about that great story of mom when the child was accused

[74:09]

Part of this relaxing with this negative judgment is also... Also part of it, which Bob said to me at the end of class last time, also part of it would be to, he was driving in a car one day and he was, I think he noticed that he was not relaxed about some situation at work, was it? And then suddenly he noticed, I think he said he noticed his part or his contribution to not being able to relax with the situation. or his contribution to the situation.

[75:13]

And then he relaxed. And then relaxation happened. So when somebody says to me, you know, literally, I feel negative about what you just did, I have some part in that too. Namely, I... I'm interpreting that what they meant there that is literal. You know? And I'm interpreting... that the energy coming to me is harsh. That's my interpretation. It doesn't mean that's not true, that it's harsh or that it's negative. It's just that what you're thinking is also part of the experience you're having. So if I feel negative about me, Or if I think you feel negative about me in both cases, it's my thinking that we're looking at, first of all. That I think this person is not kidding.

[76:17]

I think they really mean it. And I feel a fierce energy coming from them. I feel like they're spitting in my face. Or maybe they literally spit in your face. But I still interpret that as You know, I interpret it as a bad thing. Like now my grandson's starting to spit. And I think he takes baths at home, you know, and I think at home, you know, he eats his washcloth. You know, he doesn't eat it exactly. He chews and sucks it, sucks the dirty bathwater out of it. Did you ever do that? And also he spits in his own bathtub, right? which seems all right in a way, because he's spitting on himself. But also now he's spitting in my bathtub. So I have a big bathtub, and he's in a little bathtub next to me, and he reaches over and spits into mine.

[77:20]

So, you know, it's my view. My view is that I have a certain frame on that. And if he spits at me, I frame that in a certain way. Now, it's okay for me to frame it that way. And also, I think he's old enough now, so I think he's already been told the difference in spitting in your own bathtub and spitting in somebody else's face. And I think he's kind of playing with that. But when he first spit in his own bathtub, he wasn't trying to be a bad boy. And when he sucks his wash rag, he wasn't originally doing that to be a bad boy. I think it was, it's fun. It has a nice tactile sensation. And then having it go the other way. But now he's probably been instructed by his mother not to spit outside the bathtub or into other people's bathtub, so now he's probably playing that way. But if I acknowledge what I'm doing there, it isn't that I shouldn't, it isn't that I should, you know, feel okay about you people spitting at me, but that if I

[78:34]

recognize my contribution to not feeling okay, that will help me relax, according to Bob's example. Now, it's not that I can make myself relax. If you slap me or spit on me, to try to relax may not work. It's more like, again, working on the context in which relaxation can happen. And the context in which relaxation can happen is to be aware of what's contributing to it. Once you're aware of what contributes to it, relaxation can occur. And it's almost like the wisdom which sees the contribution produces the relaxation, and relaxation helps you see how the thing dependently co-arises. So when someone insults you at work, try to remember that you are interpreting that as literally that way and that you don't like it. You don't like them telling you You don't find it.

[79:36]

You find it unpleasant. You're judging them negatively that they're judging you negatively. You may continue to judge them negatively, and they may continue to judge you negatively, but if you're aware of all the ingredients, that promotes relaxation and wisdom simultaneously. And then, when there is relaxation, then you get to see even more. More will be revealed about what happened there. And then you start to see how, not arbitrary, but how interdependent all this stuff is. And you start to see the play of creativity in the interactions at the office. That the Buddhist teaching of interdependence happens, doesn't just happen in monasteries or in friendly meetings between student and teacher, or friendly meetings between, you know, Same status yogis. It happens in negative judgments.

[80:39]

It happens in positive judgments. It happens when you have a positive judgment about a negative judgment. It happens when you have a negative judgment about a positive judgment. You have some of those, right? People come up to you and give a compliment and you feel bad about it. People give you a compliment and you feel good about it. No matter what the situation is, the reality is the same. There's no situation different. But some situations are such that if you tense up, the truth will not be revealed to you if you tense up. Put it the other way, if you relax, it will be. If you can relax and start playing with these challenging situations, you'll start to see, oh my God, creativity happens even in this lowest level But of course it's very difficult to relax in the lowest hell realm, so start with the easier ones.

[81:40]

And maybe the office situation will be one of the most difficult. But Jenny told an example where somehow there was a breakthrough in the office. Sometimes the most difficult ones are when somebody who you really appreciate gives you a big compliment. Sometimes in those things you really tense up and don't see the interdependence there. So we can always miss it. We can always see it. So let's talk more about how do you relax under these difficult circumstances. Let's keep discussing this because that will be the mode in which we will be able to bring relaxation together with wisdom. It's 9.15, but there's two questions. Roy? Yeah. And then Roger. Roy, then Roger. I wonder if Bob would be willing to share what else occurred at the office after he relaxed during the time.

[82:43]

If anything. Well, Greg left out one important part, and that was when I was listening to his tape. I was trying to do it. It's over. You know, I really wasn't giving the tape at all. And all of a sudden... Did you put the tape on to help you meditate on this? It was already in the tape. But I was driving along and I was having this difficulty. And, you know... What you were talking about at that point presented a different thing than the way you presented it. It was about the same issue of getting to the point where you can acknowledge your part in issues and relax and that sort of thing. And all of a sudden it was like your voice was saying, Bob . So I started listening to this and I started to talk to me that there were

[83:53]

that I had made a contribution this following. There are a few people in this room I've talked this through with them, and I'm pleased to say that they feel my contribution was much smaller than somebody else. Once I acknowledged that I had that piece of it, it made me realize that I sort of set this stuff off in a way. And it brought a great deal of peace to my mind. So that when I walked into the office, although I met it directly, I contributed or confronted the people I talked about it, because it had been a lot of quite interesting interpretation there. I didn't want to presume anything. I just was very relaxed with them. interaction with people the last week over, you know, and whenever that issue sort of surfaced in sort of a fine line, I just sort of relaxed with it. So it was great.

[84:53]

Okay. I wanted to go back to what person said that? Dorit. Her name is Dorit. Dorit. In relationships, it seems like relationships are personal. A lot of times, how you're being treated or talked to or responded to is not necessarily in the present time. Sort of like the cause and effect isn't exactly linear, but it has to do sometimes, you know, you have a memory. many times have their own defenses between people and having you in the past, a series of interactions. So if someone is being negative, you may be almost a totally different person at that point when it's meeting, when that karma is sort of catching up to you. And it may be useful to reflect on maybe how you were in previous interactions over maybe a year ago with that same person to sort of sample out maybe where maybe you had something to contribute to the negativity.

[86:00]

Great. Thank you very much.

[86:09]

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