I plan to talk about right action, which is the fourth aspect of the Eightfold Noble Path, traditionally taught. And the Buddha actually seemed to have taught that quite soon. in his career. For the first three weeks we talked about right speech. Right action is, in a sense, a huge topic. In a kind of conventional way, the Buddha taught that right speech was to abstain from, excuse me, right action is to abstain from killing, abstain from stealing, and abstain from unlawful sexual intercourse.

[01:25]

abstain from killing is something that we're spending a lot of time thinking about and talking about at Green Gulch, I think, about what does that mean in terms of what we eat. Does abstain from killing mean that you only eat vegetables or Some people would say that, really, that's not even strict enough. That maybe you should only eat vegetables that... You should only eat things that, like, fall on the ground, like nuts or something. And you shouldn't even eat cultivated food, because there's some potential harm done in the process of growing vegetables. So... but if I guess fruits in the case of fruits the tree wants you to eat them and carry the seeds someplace else but otherwise it's hard to find food that you couldn't imagine some harm done in providing you with the food and that in some way you're maybe not directly or indirectly supporting some kind of killing so this is something that a lot of you are spending time thinking about and talking about right now

[03:09]

Stealing also is, if you think about it, it's really complex. Sometimes you take things and you don't even know that somebody might have thought that you took it without their permission. you assumed it was already, you took whatever you would take it, but you didn't check. And if you had checked, you might have found out that somebody didn't want you to take it, so in a sense you stole it. And so on. That's a very complex precept, too. And sexual misconduct in the sense of unlawful sexual intercourse in the time, in the In some countries, some traditional countries, they have laws worked out very clearly about what is inappropriate sexual intercourse.

[04:13]

And now, in America, right now, the whole country is in a process of confusion about what's lawful and unlawful sexual intercourse. In some countries it's considered unlawful to have sexual intercourse with members of the same sex. In some countries it's considered unlawful to... Actually, in some Buddhist countries it's considered unlawful to have sex with convicts. Some people think that's cruel, not to have sex with convicts, and so on. So, you see, all these things can be debated. I guess there would be a high degree of agreement that having sexual intercourse with children is unlawful. Maybe many cultures agree with that.

[05:18]

But they differ maybe on what age childhood ends, perhaps. There might be some debate about that. some countries having sexual intercourse with someone who's betrothed to marry someone else is unlawful sexual intercourse some other countries it's considered like the best time you know your last chance and so on you know a really cute time to have sexual intercourse is when somebody's about to get married even the person who's about to get married may think it's really a good time and so on you know Are these laws really laws or are they just things set up by people? They can be debated. And last week we were talking about lying and keeping things in or getting them out. If you keep things inside yourself and don't understand them, they can be very harmful to you

[06:26]

And you, who have not integrated and understood these things inside you, that you don't speak and get out, you can become harmful too. You're harmful to yourself and harmful to others if you don't get what's happening to you out and understand it. On the other hand, to bring it out and hurt people is not good. So, in the case of speaking, we have this difficulty of balancing self-expression, which is absolutely necessary in order to become free. You have to express yourself fully, I'd say. But expressing yourself fully does not mean that you express yourself unskillfully. Full self-expression, for me, equals skillful self-expression. Skillful self-expression is not harmful to others. It's beneficial to others. Liberates you and benefits others. But how do you learn how to do that? How do you balance getting your expression out there and not hurting people with your expression?

[07:32]

Very complicated, right? So far so good? Everything clear that's really complicated? So we went back and forth, you know. Matt brought up, you know, that He can get sick if he keeps things inside. But somebody else brought up, well, certainly he shouldn't just put everything out there at will. Martin pointed out the problems that can happen if you suppress your anger, and so on. So how do we balance getting it out with not harming? Getting it out in a beneficial way. This is really hard. I'm not hard, you know. Hard is, you know, an understatement. It's a very complex art. to learn how to express ourselves in a skillful way that benefits everybody. And how do you start, you know, to wait until you're really skillful before you even try? Well, you can't wait because you express yourself anyway. So how do we do this? This is really a problem. Okay?

[08:35]

Now we're coming into another area of, you know, the bodily things. This is a speech thing. Now we're in the body things, the killing, the, you know, the physical interactions with the world. Whether you're like pushing on things to such an extent that they're harmed, like you, you know, you push and hurt an ant or hurt a cockroach or hurt a dog or hurt a person. You push, you express yourself and you kill things. Or you take things and it's considered stealing or even that can hurt people. Or you get intimate with people in such a way that you're sexually intimate and it harms them and harms you and harms others. This is a physical thing, you know. So how are we going to figure this out? It's complicated, right? We have lots of ideas. And I think we, basically I think we have to deal with the fact that we have a brain

[09:42]

We have a language, we have discriminative powers, and we have each other. I think we should think about these things. Think, think, think, think, think. Examine, discern, deliberate, write, read, discuss. We should do that. And as a result of all that, our understanding might develop. I think it does, actually. Hear other people's points of view, other people's arguments, hear people's criticisms of your arguments, see how unclear you are sometimes, see how emotional you are sometimes. This is all good. But it's also, in some ways, it has its limits. And sometimes you can't do it. Sometimes you don't have time to figure out what to do. You have a new case that you don't have time to discuss and study about for six weeks or ten minutes even. Things are happening fast. How are we going to act?

[10:46]

Complicated, right? So tonight I want to bring up, in addition to all the stuff I just brought up, I want to bring up another dimension which I've been alluding to for the last three or four days, and that is to... realize that really these precepts, in their actuality, in their full realization, are Buddhahood, are enlightenment. Or put another way, these precepts come from our Buddha nature. The Buddha taught them from an awakened state, the Buddha to express these teachings from his Buddha nature to other people to help them in their path of realizing their Buddha nature. So, although I really do feel we have to look at the conventional meaning of these precepts, which we've been doing for three weeks and may do from now on to the rest of our lives,

[11:57]

But we also need to consult the source of the precepts. And the source of the precepts is not our discriminating thinking. It's not our human thought. That's not where the precepts come from. They come from our buddhi nature. In order to really and realize the fullness of these precepts, we have to be intimate with our Buddha nature. I would also say that in order to deal with the conventional difficulties of these precepts, we need to be intimate with our Buddha nature. I say it in order to thoroughly, enthusiastically, joyfully and patiently deal with the complexities of these precepts. We need to be intimate with our Buddha nature.

[12:59]

If we're intimate with our Buddha nature, it sustains us in the painstaking work of dealing with the conflicts and ambiguities and confusions that arise around the words that arise with these precepts and don't arise with these precepts. But in addition to supporting us to do the conventional work, it also gets us in touch with a place where we can act from without thought, where the Buddha nature itself can express itself through our, what we are, directly, accurately expressing these precepts in their full, beneficial, skillful way. So part of what is necessary in order to realize this precept or right speech or anything is to go down to the place where our being is being supported by all beings and supporting all beings.

[14:09]

That way that we are, that's supported by all beings and supports all beings, That's where these precepts come from. That is what these precepts are about. They're about supporting all beings and supporting all beings wholeheartedly and being supported by all, and feeling a wholehearted support from all beings. Not that all beings have realized that they're wholeheartedly supporting us, But we realize that they're wholeheartedly supported. And there's a story which I have cited many times, which is good, I think, to help deal with these two aspects of all these precepts, and that is Case 21 of the Book of Serenity.

[15:11]

which is a story about Yun Yan and Da Wu. Yun Yan is sweeping the ground and Da Wu comes up to him and says, you're too busy. And Yun Yan says, you should know there's one who's not busy. And Da Wu says, then are there two moons? And Yun Yan takes his broom, holds it up and says, which moon is this? And So translated in terms of these precepts, there you are, here I am. I'm trying to practice right speech. I'm trying to practice right action or right livelihood. Here we are, trying to practice right speech, right action, right livelihood. These are karmic activities. We're intending to be wholesome. We're intending to speak wholesomely, honestly, kindly. to talk about important matters, to not gossip, to not speak of others' faults.

[16:16]

We're carefully doing that. Okay? All right? Then our Dharma brother or Dharma sister comes up to us and says, you're too busy. You know? You're trying to practice these precepts and basically you're just a busybody. You're too busy. This is too much. You're making this into too much karma. That's not what these precepts are about. These precepts are about liberating beings from karma. And you're just, like, really busy. Of course, you're talking to somebody who you're close to, so you can say that. But basically what you're saying is, dear brother or sister, I know what you're really about is to really bring great benefit and liberation to beings, but basically you're just perpetuating karma now here. With all this, you know, busybody, do good things. Right? So then you say to your Dharma brother, you don't say, no, I'm not busy.

[17:19]

He's got you. You are busy. You are busy. The great Dawu, you know, he was busy. He didn't say, no, I'm not busy. He didn't deny it. He didn't deny it. He was busy. Our ancestors were busy. They were busybodies, all the time trying to, like, What, you know, trying to practice right speech, trying to practice right action, trying to practice right livelihood all the time, carefully doing these things, busybodies. And you could go up to the greatest ancestor, you know, and catch them at being busy. Say, you're too busy. They won't deny it. They are. They're busier than us, those ancestors. totally busy, totally careful, really into the details of trying to practice these precepts. But then they say, but don't forget, sweetheart, there's someone who's not busy. And they say that with great authority. They're very intimate with the one who never does anything, never violates these precepts ever, but is nothing but the precepts.

[18:31]

And then you say, well, is there two then? Like one busy here and one not busy? And then you say, which one is this? Is this the busy one or not busy? Now, if you say, or I say, you should know there's one who's not busy, the implication is that you know one that's not busy. You're not just saying you should know. Otherwise you say you should know and I should know. I do know I'm intimate with one who's not busy and therefore I am busy also. But we have to keep in touch with the one who's not busy. This is our Buddha nature. If we lose touch with that, we're just going to get pooped out being careful of what we do. You can't keep doing this. It's too much work. And not to mention that sometimes things are too fast to stop and think. You don't have time. You've got to come from your big heart sometimes. And if you're not in touch with that, when things come upon you, you may not have time to find it.

[19:39]

You've got to be working with that all the time. You've got to be in touch with that all the time. There's really no room. There's no room to be out of touch with that. You've got to be in touch with it. And also, not skip over dealing with the details. Like, you know, is this tea? I didn't ask. Is this tea for me? Did you make this? Can I drink it? No? That's not too much trouble, is it? But what if it was? What if it was too much trouble? What if I couldn't talk? How am I going to find out? I have to figure it out. But at the same time, I have to Remember the one who's not busy, too. So we need to have both of these when we practice right action. So I can stop now if you want to talk about anything.

[20:51]

Or even if you don't want to talk about anything, I can stop. Yes, Jeremy? So, right action is not killing, and it's not giving them sexual misconduct. They're not stealing. And there's other things that seem cruel that they're not right action, like eating a child. Eating a child? Sure, eating a child. I said beating a child. Oh, beating a child. Well, yeah, baby bok choy. That's true. Baby lettuce, right? Beating a child? Yeah, so is that... Which category of reaction is the fault? Um... Well, it isn't exactly killing, is it?

[22:05]

It isn't exactly stealing, and it isn't exactly a lawful sexual intercourse. So, it isn't one of those. But this precept is not just about abstaining from those three. This precept is about also any physical action that's harmful Lazy posture, not sitting up straight when it would be good for your health and encouraging others, is missing an opportunity to practice this precept. So hitting somebody, hurting somebody with your hands or feet or whatever, or throwing things at people and hurting them violates this precept. These three are just like, you know, big... big categories, but what you bring up also is not in accordance with the right physical action, unless it was in some ways beneficial.

[23:13]

So, actually, when my daughter was little, Before she went to sleep at night, she would cry and squirm in her bed and get very tense and whine and snarl and hiss for a long time. And at some point my wife said, would you give her a swat? So I gave her a swat on the fanny, one swat. And then she'd go, you know, and then boop. go to sleep right away. So it seemed in a way to be beneficial, at least for my wife. I have, you know, kind of like, what do you call it, my nerves have more coating of maybe dairy products around it or something from growing up in Minnesota. So, you know, children's screaming doesn't bother me as much as it bothers particularly a nursing mother.

[24:17]

But anyway, so I gave her a swat, and then she goes to sleep right away. And it seemed to be beneficial to swat her in that case, because since she'd go to sleep, she wouldn't have spent half an hour or an hour, like, uncomfortably squirming in her bed. But then after I did that for, you know, I don't know what, a year or two, finally... Not every night, you know. Those nights when she was having trouble going to sleep. I... Roosa said, I think you should stop hitting her now. Stop swatting her. She's getting too old. So when she was, I don't know, four or five, I stopped doing it. And I'm proud to say I've never hit her since. It actually wasn't that difficult to not hit her, to tell you the truth.

[25:18]

There were a couple times, though, when the hand sort of felt like it would land on the cheek of the face. But I didn't ever hit her. And I'm glad I didn't. Doesn't seem like anything was missed by that. So she can grow up saying, my father never hit me. And she can know that she was never hit. And now if anybody tried to hit her, it would be kind of a very unusual thing for her. So not only wasn't she hit, but she doesn't really think that that's part of the deal. So it was nice. And those little swats in the butt, she doesn't count, I guess. When she was three and a half, her mother went to France for a while and she and I went to Esalen Institute for two months together. It was the first time of any significant amount of time that she and I were alone without her mother.

[26:26]

And the first time she was really away from her mother for more than a few hours, I guess, or maybe... day or something. And her mother, my dear wife, suggested that it would be a good time for her to become liberated from her pacifier, which she called an ee-ee. my i'i so I said okay and so I told her when we got to us and I said so the i'i was used at that age the i'i was used primarily at bedtime I no longer swatted her and but as she went to sleep as she was going to go to sleep she popped the i'i and it helped her go to sleep

[27:30]

But I told her, I said, your mom wants you to stop using the pacifier. And she said, she said, well, you know, I'd rather use it. She said, it helps me go to sleep. And I thought, yeah, I know, I'm And I somehow, across my mind, I thought, you know, what do adults do to go to sleep? What do they do? All the things, you know, that they do to go to sleep. Actually, you know, it's relatively harmless compared to some of the things that adults do, which they're allowed to do, and nobody tries to wean them from those things. So I thought, okay. But still, you know, I still think it would be good if you actually could go to sleep without it. And she said, yes, I agree with you. So I didn't exactly try to trick her, but sort of I tried to trick her by what she'd do is I'd read to her.

[28:36]

And then while I was reading to her, I'm a very bad reader, while I was reading to her she'd go to sleep. Just like some people do during my lectures. Very kind of monotone voice. I don't read very well so that there's not much drama in it. I don't I can barely read it, so I can't get into saying all the different parts with different voices and stuff. So she goes to sleep, halfway through the story, right? So, no, ee-ee. So several nights, you know, she just went to sleep without it. And sometimes, just before she went to sleep, she'd grab it and pop it in. Anyway, I didn't try to stop her. I just tried to promote her not needing it. And one night I was teaching a class and she went to some other event, some other class, and in the middle of the class she was sucking on her EE and she broke it.

[29:46]

The rubber broke, it lost its compression. It was kind of limp. The plastic was there, but the rubber thing kind of popped. And I came back, and she was really beside herself. There was her, and she was over here. She was really upset. She had calmed down somewhat, but she was really upset. Anyway, she said, Would you go buy me another one? And I said, Well, Taya, I'm not going to go buy another one because we're at Esalen and the nearest store is 50 miles away. So you're asking me to drive 100 miles in the middle of the night to get you this EE. I'm not going to do it. So she said, okay. She could understand. Three and a half year olds are pretty smart. They have some dependencies, but they're pretty smart. But again, some other people do too, right? Some older people? So I said, if you remind me tomorrow during the daytime, you know, and I'll drive 50 miles and get you the EE.

[30:58]

So the next day came, and we went through our usual thing, which was I took her to daycare, which is called the gazebo, and every morning she said, I don't want to go, I want to stay with you, I don't want to go, I don't want to go. Drag her to daycare, she gets to daycare, and as soon as she gets there, you know, she forgets me and I actually had trouble getting her out of there but anyway so then she goes to daycare and then night time comes I come and pick her up from daycare and she doesn't want to come with me but anyway she does we have dinner blah blah blah I read her this story and she says I want my eat eat I told you you have to remind me it's night again I'm not going to drive 50 miles in the night to get this thing remind me tomorrow and I'll go so next day comes same thing She forgets to remind me. I don't really remember myself to tell you the truth. She forgets to remind me. The night comes again. She says, give me my Yi. I said, Tay, you forgot. I'm not going to drive in the middle of the night. Tell me during the daytime. I'll go to the store. Or get somebody else to go to the store.

[32:06]

I was going to the store anyway. Next day comes. She doesn't tell me again. But that night she doesn't ask for it. And that's the end of the Yi. She got over it. and she's been sleeping well ever since. And I still have the EE, if anybody wants to see it. It looks like a kind of a, something from a, it was found in a pyramid, you know. It's kind of a mummified EE. But anyway, you know, this is about right action, right? This is not actually, it doesn't have what they call it, you know, no killing, no stealing, no sexual misconduct, and also, you know, don't take your kid's EE away too early. when he gets into the subtleties of it, you have to consult your Buddha nature. There's no rule about pacifiers. We don't have a law of that yet. You have to figure that out from your heart. And people help you.

[33:06]

You say, well, how about this? And they say, no. There's some place where you find this interdependence and you find your way and it's actually quite You have your thing to say. So we find out that's really where these come from. They come from our inner dependence. There's no rules down there. But it doesn't mean you skip over the rules. There are rules in society. We have to deal with them. But all these things come from their attempts to protect that inner dependent heart. And we shouldn't spend all our time depending on and thinking about the rules, without simultaneously getting in touch with the source of all the rules, or at least the good source of all the rules. To some extent the rules are partly coming from not the source, but from human weakness.

[34:07]

When Buddhas are together, you know, they're just coming from the source and they have no rules with each other, no rules. They get along without any rules, without any policies, without anything like that. This eightfold path is for us up when we're up in our head. But since we are up here sometimes, we've got to manage this section of our being, this talking part. We have to have those rules up there to guide us and shape our verbal and physical conduct. But we also need to stay close to the place where we don't need rules and where there are no rules. And they're not separate, these two realms. Yes? Here's a kind of a complex one that's very close to what I've been doing for the last couple of years. It's like, the work I've been doing the last couple of years is kind of, flatly stated, figuring out that somebody else is breaking the precepts and trying to stop them from doing it.

[35:14]

And that sounds maybe really crazy, but... You know, it's the concept of maybe beings that don't seem to be able to defend themselves that are being, in my mind, sort of senselessly killed. And then me trying to stop other human beings from doing that sort of stuff. And I just wonder, I don't know, I mean... You know, like, I'm not necessarily engaged in the killing, but I'm seeing somebody else that, in my mind, is engaged in killing in a way that seems a senseless violation of precepts. Okay. You know, I mean, I don't know what the question is, it's just like... Well, anyway, you have a perception, okay? You have a perception. We have perceptions. We have to deal with, we have perceptions. You have a perception. This being is being harmed... and I don't, and the perception is that this harm is not, I don't see a sufficient redeeming, or I see zero redeeming, my perception shows zero redeeming qualities, or not sufficient redeeming qualities for the harm of this being.

[36:20]

I don't see it. You don't see it, that's your perception. Right. Okay? So, now what do you, how do you, how do you take care of yourself when you have your perceptions like this? One tip which doesn't separate you from your perception, but also grounds you in your Buddha nature, is to notice, which I think a lot of us feel, is that we either want to stop that, but if we can't stop it right away, we don't want to be involved in it. So, like you see car people driving down the road, sending out the stuff out of the back of their car, right? You don't really feel that maybe you can stop the cars. But at least you notice in your mind, you might notice in your mind, well, I think I'll ride a bicycle.

[37:20]

Then I won't be doing that. That's fine. But then you may also notice, not only am I riding a bicycle... but I also don't want to be associated or involved with these other people who are driving those cars and polluting the air. When you notice that feeling of you don't want to have anything to do with it and you want to be separate from it, that's a sign to watch out for. That guides you, that shows you that you're, I think, off the track. Somehow, we have to deal with the perception of harm without dissociating ourselves from it. And also when we notice that we want to dissociate ourselves from it, notice that's something funny. It's because you care about, in a sense, the person who's doing the harm and the person who's being harmed, you care about both of them. You really are connected to them. We're not separate from these people who are harming others or harming each other or harming themselves. We're not separate from them. So if you can get in touch with the person who's not trying to get himself out of the situation and be pure over this, which is partly by finding the person who does want to be not associated with it.

[38:34]

I don't want to be associated with these criminals, right? Okay, fine. This is off the track. That not wanting to be associated. And wanting to... Excuse me. I shouldn't say not wanting to be associated. I should say wanting to have nothing to do with them. Because associated has the meaning of you're kind of like in on it. You don't want to be in on the harm. You don't want to be. But also you don't want to be like separate yourself from the beings who are doing the harm. But we do often when we don't want to be associated... and involved in the harm, we often also want to be dissociated from the beings. We want to be pure, innocent, while we work to protect beings from the harm. I think it's better to not be pure and innocent or guilty, but be intimate with the situation, not associated with it, not promoting it, not promoting it, not going along with it,

[39:44]

and not opposing it either, but intimate with it, and in intimacy, I think the harm can be eliminated. That's what I think. So, if you have perception, number one, harm, number two, I don't like it, those two, then also if you can be intimate with the situation, with the perception and the thinking that it's harmful and you want to stop it, you want it to end, you want it to end, you want it to end, but you're willing to be intimate with it. And get in there, and then as you get in there, I think you find out this sense of you want to be pure. And, of course, millions of other selfish things could come up there, too. You want to be pure, you want to get the Nobel Peace Prize, you know, a few other little details like that. You want to, you know, you want to let people think he is the best activist, you know, in Northern California or Southern Oregon or whatever. Yeah. That stuff may come up too. That's maybe easier to spot.

[40:47]

We don't need that. Drop that stuff. But when you start noticing that stuff, that's also probably the sentiments of some of the people who are doing these things which you think are harmful. They want to be the best logger or the best construction boss or the best owner of such and such or the best... Everybody wants, in some sense, in some realm... They want to be it. And we've got that problem. That's where all these problems are coming from, is each of us in some realm want to be like it. You know, be the best Buddha, the best, you know, this, the best that. We want to be, you know, we're really proud of this little thing here. If you're not like that, then I think we've got, you know, some denial going on. And if you try to do good, one of the good things about being good is it surfaces this special critter that's right here.

[41:58]

If you're doing something bad and somebody says you're doing something bad, if you're doing something bad and you know it's bad and somebody says you're doing it bad, you say, yeah, who asked you to say anything about it? Get out of here. But if you're doing something you think is good and you're being good and somebody criticizes you, that's what gets you. When you're good, your self is out there. So you should try to do good because that brings yourself out of hiding. In some sense, when you're doing bad, you don't even have to be there In other words, in Buddhism, doing bad goes with not being aware of yourself. Your selfishness is driving it, but you're not aware of it. It's all the better to do bad then. In other words, all the worse. When you do good, good exposes yourself. Because when you're doing good, you think you're good. So when you're criticized when you're doing something good, that illuminates yourself.

[43:05]

So trying to be beneficial and trying to work this way, get yourself out there. When you can get yourself out there and see it and become free of it, then you really will be beneficial. Your actions may be very similar to what you'd do if you didn't understand. You still might be working in the area of trying to protect beings from such and such. However, you would not be self-righteous anymore. you would still have a perception of what was wrong and still want to work to benefit it, maybe, but you wouldn't think you're right. You'd be free of that. Or if you thought that, you'd be free of that thought. If you don't think that you're right, what is it that makes you continue to choose one way versus the other way? What is that replaced by? Right. Well, for example, you know, like, let's say you see somebody about to kill somebody, or even, you know, And let's say you don't think it's good, you think it's wrong, you think it's no good that they're going to do that.

[44:14]

So you want to stop that. And you say, I don't know what, you say, would you please stop that? Or whatever, you know. Let's say that you're successful, even. You say, would you please stop that? And they say, okay. It does sometimes happen, you know, that somebody's about to kill somebody and somebody else says, don't do it, and they don't. Like in actually our koan class, there's a story about some general comes in and says, well, should I kill him or not? And the guy says, hmm. Anyway, when you think something is bad, if you really think it's bad, I mean, and you're convinced, and that's just the way it is for you, you don't need to know you're right. But if you're not sure, you might need to know you're right. It's better to just be sure without knowing you're right.

[45:19]

It's better, because then you don't have to be self-righteous. Then you can just say, hey, I don't think it's good to do that. That's where I'm at. And you may be that way forever. You may never change your mind and always think it's good to not harm beings. And you're so convinced of it. It's so much what you are that you don't need to lay I'm right on top of it. But if you're not sure, you may need to put I'm right on top of it, which means... You're somebody who really can't work for this thing, work for this good, very well, because you don't believe it. So you pump it up with self-righteousness because you think it'll make you stronger. And it does make you stronger. But it also is antithetical and makes people fight you. But if you're completely sure... You just keep going time to time to time to time. You just keep working and working and working and working. You're willing to go forever because that's just the way you are and there's no alternative.

[46:25]

That's who you are. You don't have to say, I don't like the taste of it and it's wrong. There are certain people... in this community, who love vegetables, love the taste of vegetables, and they love the taste, they do not think the taste is improved by dairy products. They're not vegans, but they don't want dairy products on the food. They don't have to be right. about, you know, no dairy products in the food. They just don't like the taste of it. Some other people like dairy products in the food, but don't think there should be dairy products in the food. And they're in a different situation. I love butter on it, but I don't think there should be butter on it. But the person who just doesn't like the taste of it, they don't necessarily have to say, and it's wrong to put butter on there.

[47:31]

I don't like butter on it, but they don't have to say, you know, morally wrong or whatever. They just never If they had their choice, they would never put butter on it. And if they could stop the cooks, they wouldn't do it. But only because they don't like the taste. And they don't have to be right. It's just the way they are and they can't do anything about it. In fact, they kind of say, I'm sorry, I have a problem with this food because you're putting this stuff on, it doesn't meet. would have been perfectly good just, you know, served without being put the butter in it. So it isn't necessary to be... It is not Buddha... I don't think Buddha needs to be right. I don't see that in Buddha. I see Buddha just not killing and being completely settled in that and not needing to be right about it. And therefore, having tremendous moral authority. Suzuki Roshi...

[48:33]

was, you know, he wasn't completely free of all self-righteousness that I could see. I'm not saying, I won't say he wasn't completely free, it's just that I'm not saying he was completely free, okay? I'm not saying he wasn't, but I won't say he was. But I would say that he did not come on like, you know, this is the right way. He did not come on like that very much. he came on like, I like this way. Kind of like, please excuse me, I like Zazen. I really do. This is my thing, I like it. It wasn't like, you should do this and I know it's good for you. But just liking it and being sure that he liked it was, you know, very encouraging. People who like nonviolence and they're completely convinced by it, it's very encouraging. It's very influential. It makes it look really good.

[49:34]

But if they like nonviolent violence a little bit, but not too much, so then they add, it's right on top of it, then people say, me think style does protest too much. You know, what do you have to make such a big case out of it if you really think it's good? Why don't you just do it? Now, sometimes you may feel like, there isn't time for me to demonstrate how good it is to be non-violent, so I have to do something to actually stop that person's hand. Okay, fine. But it would be nice if you could do it from the same place, that you could practice non-violence in such a way that if people had time to watch you, they would be attracted to it, because it looks so beautiful. it looks so enjoyable, it looks so lovely, and you're so un-self-righteous. If they had time to see that you were un-self-righteous, they would be converted. Because when you're un-self-righteous, you also can see that they're good people. I mean, essentially they're Buddhas. But if you add self-righteousness on top of what you naturally as a Buddha wouldn't like, if you put self-righteousness on top, that obscures your vision of the other person's Buddha nature.

[50:43]

And therefore you can't convert them as well as if you look at them like, hey, you're in my family, not just my blood family, but my Buddha family. I'm here to dedicate my life to you. I care as much about you as I do about these other things which you're harming. You're off the track of what you can be. You're not, this is not your potential. You can do better than this. This is easy. Like I, that story I tell so often. This guy said to me, you know, it's easy to be bad. What's hard is to be good. You know, hey kid, you can do better than this. You know, it's easy to do this stuff. Come on, try the, let's play the real game. Come on. Let's be good. Come on. Okay. I'll try it. It was hard, you know. But I wanted to try the big game, the game of being good. It's much harder, much harder. Because being bad, you know how easy it is to be bad? Now, to be really super bad, not so easy. But basically, to be bad, all you've got to do is just don't pay attention.

[51:44]

Just don't pay attention. You'll be bad. Just walk around without paying attention. You'll break windows. You'll hurt yourself. You'll hurt other people. You'll drive off roads. It isn't that hard to be bad. And then if you put a little effort into it, you know, you can be a lot worse without much effort. But to be good, that's what we're talking about. It's very hard to be good. Very complex. Right? To convey that in a situation where you have the perception of harm, that does more than just stop this case. Because again, if you just stop this case, then when you're gone, they come back and do it again. You can't really stop people from doing what they want to do But you can change what they want to do if you show them something groovier, something more beautiful, something more happy. And if they see you as somebody who is happy and cares about them, there's a chance that they'll notice you. But you also know the story of the Buddha?

[52:46]

his people, the Shakya clan, were being attacked by an army. And his people said, would you please go out and stop them, Lord Buddha? He said, okay. And he went out and sat in front of the army. And the army stopped when they saw the Buddha and went back home. But when they got home, they said, you know, really, it's not going to work. We've got to go back and wipe those people out. And so if the Buddha, what did the Buddha say in there again? Just go around them. We're not going to, you know, It's not going to stop us. We've got to do it. So they came back again. People said, Buddha, please go and stop them. He said, not this time. They won't stop. So they actually came in and attacked his people and hurt his people. And he couldn't stop them. He couldn't. He didn't have the opportunity to show his benevolence and turn them around. He couldn't do it. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can. If you can, do it.

[53:48]

But the time that you can do it, not just stop them, but convert them. Now, he couldn't even convert them in that case. You can't always do it. But the point is, that is the highest goal. Not just to stop this time, but to change the minds so that when you go away, they just don't come back and do it again. You know, so, like, when they see your face, they see something, they see love, you know? Love converts them. And if you can't show them love, and you feel love, then you, if they can't see it, then you have it anyway, just in case. And maybe you have to stop them physically with that love, and maybe later they can see the love. But if you don't have the love It's just a short-term measure. If you have the love, it could be a long-term change. That's why you need the love and the action.

[54:52]

And also, if you keep doing the action without love, you're going to get burned out. You're going to feel terrible. You're going to dry up and be a nasty old man. He worked all these years trying to help people, but in the end he was just a crabby old guy because he never really liked those people he was working with. And he was all the time working with these people to try to stop them from harm, but didn't love them. But if you work against some evil for your whole life and love the beings who are creating it, you won't get burned out. Because you'll enjoy, you'll enjoy helping these beings, even if they never stop. You still have been teaching them Dharma the whole time. Now, of course, they might stop too, which would be nice. But if they don't get converted, it's not good enough. They have to not only stop evil number X, Y, and Z, but they have to start doing good A, B, C. So you have to show them the ultimate good, which is love and compassion, along with stopping the temporary gross evil. So you have to combine these two realms, the unbusy one with the busy one, the perception with the heart of interdependence.

[56:02]

You have to do them both at the same time. That's the ultimate thing, to integrate those two. Okay? Is that enough for tonight? I was just wondering where sharing information comes in. How do you mean, sharing information? Well, if someone's doing something and they don't know the consequences of that action, and you have some information about it, how can you show it without it being self-righteous? Because you've been talking more about action and just doing it what you do. Well, again, that could be very helpful. The question is, you look in your heart and see if you're self-righteous. If you're self-righteous, I think that would undermine the effectiveness of the information. It happens right in this community a lot that somebody's doing something and somebody else has some information which would be helpful to that person. Actually, I think if they had the information, if it could be delivered to them, they would appreciate it.

[57:06]

Like, you know, when I was a young monk, when I was your age sometimes Suzuki Roshi would come and give me some information he would say well we usually we usually we do he would say usually we do it this way this is usually this is our way you know he wouldn't say you know how come you're doing it that way this is the way he'd say kind of like and I always felt like Suzuki Roshi is going to give me some instruction great you know Because it was not like, I didn't feel like I was in the wrong, I felt like I was getting a gift. But he was looking at me like, oh, here's my little disciple, you know, who's dedicating his life to learn Zen from me. So now, I'm going to give him some training, you know. So he was looking at me like that. So if you see someone at Zen Center or some other place who's off, and you feel like this is somebody who you see their goodness, and now you want to help them with their goodness, and they sense that in you, then it's going to be like, oh, thank you.

[58:16]

For example, with me too. If you teach me about something with a sense of, he really does want to learn, and so I'm going to help him do what I think he wants to do, then I feel like that. But, again, if we come on from above, you know, and talk to the person from a moral superiority, like, I know I'm right, and guess who is wrong, and now I want to tell you what's right, then all they may see, it may be that all they'll see is, you know, this big thing coming down on them, or anyway, this intense thing coming down on them, that all they'll sense is the intensity, and they won't even hear what you're saying, perhaps. Whereas if they see, oh, here comes, well, whatever, you know, Here comes Suzuki Roshi. Well, what are we going to get? What is it? Thank you. Or here comes Erin, who looks like she's got some good news for me. And you feel like that. You feel like, oh, I bet they would really like to hear about this.

[59:20]

This would be good news to them. They would love to hear this. Or if you're not sure, you say, would you love to hear this? I have some news for you. And if they say yes, then you tell them. But if they say, no thanks, I'm in a hurry or whatever, And you say, then maybe later they'll come back. I think the important thing is, do you really feel like you're talking to somebody you care about? Or do you feel like you're talking to an idiot? Or, you know, idiot or lazy person or slackered or liar. If you feel like you're talking to them, you're crazy. You're crazy. I mean, I feel like you're talking to them that way, and that's your opinion of them. You're crazy. I mean, I'm crazy. If I think you're an idiot, I'm sick with that thought. Well, to have that thought and believe it, I'm sick. Now, just to sort of like think that you're an idiot, that's not sick. But to believe it, then I've got problems.

[60:24]

And then if I talk from my belief that you're an idiot... I'm not only sick, but I'm spreading the sickness and I'm hurting you. But if I just say it without belief, maybe it's helpful. Maybe it's not. But I can check beforehand. Now, sometimes some people come to me and they tell me, you know, I'd really like to hear from you about, you know, if there's anything you can tell me about practice or if you see me off in some way, please let me know. And then, so then I do sometimes. But sometimes I check beforehand and say, you said before you wanted, you know, you want me to train you and such and such. Do you really want me to today? And then sometimes they say, well, what do you mean? Or, what do you have in mind? And I say, well, never mind. But they say, yeah, I do. then I say it, and usually it works pretty well.

[61:25]

But if I don't check sometimes, even the people who ask me, you know, to train them in that way of giving them feedback, even the people who ask me sometimes say, yeah, I asked you, but I didn't ask you to tell me that. I mean, that's not appropriate. I meant these things over here. So I should check a lot of times. I have something to say about blah, blah, blah. Do you want to hear about it? Sometimes they would say no. Not today. Maybe tomorrow. Check back. So that's the key thing. Do you respect them? And then information is wonderful. And we have a lot of information in this community which people are dying to get. I don't know, dying, but anyway. People want to come here and be educated about this community and learn about Zen. They do. They want to. They come here for that. You came here for that. But you don't want it given to you by people who don't respect you. You don't want it then. Well, some people actually want it so bad they'll even take it from people who don't respect them. actually. If it's really good.

[62:28]

Some real, you know, some real Dharma treasure they'll take even if the person's looking down at them when they tell them. And later they can use it against them. But usually people, the main thing is that you feel, if the people at Green Ghost respect each other, then we can, then the information we give each other is really helpful. And in the conduit of mutual respect, then the information passes very nicely. So, if you know certain things, it would be helpful if you could tell people if they wanted to. Does that make sense? So it's a little extra trouble to constantly be mindful of your Buddha nature. That's the main thing If you can do that, you'll be able to take on all these difficulties of these information kind of things and check with people about various things.

[63:30]

And also sometimes not tell people things because you kind of feel like they don't want you to talk to them today. That's your sense. But you can also check to say, you look like you don't want me to talk to you today. Is that right? But even that's kind of frightening to people sometimes. I sometimes feel like that. I see people and they look like they're kind of saying to me, don't, what is it? Don't even ask. Don't even ask today. That's too much. I say, okay. Do you know what I mean? Do some of you look at me like that sometimes? is that what you mean sometimes when you look away when you see me yeah thanks everyone for admitting it's just too much sometimes right you're just not up for it right i'm not up for you sometimes again i remember when my daughter i was away in japan one time and i came back and my daughter was came to see me at the airport

[64:42]

And when I came out of immigration, at first she was kind of like, you know, and then she went... You know what I mean? It's hard sometimes to meet certain people in your life. So I understand that. So then I don't say, I didn't go up to her and say, hey, hey, hey. I let her look away for a while. When I come back from vacation, here too, you know, I go in the dining room sometimes and everybody looks away from me. I understand. Nobody wants to be the first one in front of everybody else to make a fool of themselves, right? You know what I mean? They're cool. I'm cool. Yeah, I haven't seen him for three weeks, but I'm not going to make a display of this. It's hard. I understand. I understand. Sometimes I don't like to go to the dining room when I first get back for a few days because it's painful, you know, to have all these people look away from me when I go in the room.

[65:47]

You know, I walk by and I say, they're not going to look up from their plate. You know, they can see me out of the corner of their eye. They know who I am, but they're not going to say hi. Ordinarily they would say hi, but not this time. You know what I mean? You don't know what I mean? I come back from a trip, right? I'm walking by, you're talking to somebody, right? You haven't seen me for whatever, right? I'd say hi. Yeah, you might, but somebody else might really want to say hi to me, right? They might want to jump up from their dinner and say hello to me, right? But they don't. Do you know why they don't? Pizza night. Pizza night? Right, that's it. Anything else tonight?

[66:48]

We are in tension, we believe and trade everything and place with the true narrative of the love of this way. Be in self-love, not with this. I give up, I wish to stay at home. It is beneficial, it is strong, it is sustainable. I have no idea what I want to bring to them. [...] Okay, I've got to say this. If you haven't seen somebody for one day and they come in the dining room, you just say hi.

[68:21]

If you haven't seen him for six months, you don't just say hi. You give him a hug. Yeah, right. So you do that. But the person across the way doesn't want to wait in line, right? So they pretend like... When you see somebody you haven't seen for a while, sometimes you realize you've got to do a big thing. You can't just do a little thing. but you don't feel ready to do a big thing. So that's why I say I stay away from the dining room for a couple of days, because after I'm around for a couple of days, it's no big deal. Then people say hi again. When my daughter would usually see me, she'd say hi, but when she hasn't seen me for three months, she can't stand to see me because she doesn't want to go through what it would be like to see her dad after not seeing him for three months. It's too intense, you know? It's embarrassing. It could be. So... One person may be able to stand up and just do it, but other people feel like, I'm not going to do that too, and be, you know, whatever. So you see, it's that kind of thing. So after a couple of days, the person's been around, you've been around for three days, I don't have to say hi to you anymore.

[69:23]

See? And it's okay. Make sense now? Good night.

[69:30]

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