And today I'd like to discuss with you some more about the meditation practices of bodhisattvas. And what you might say is the bodhisattva's cultivation of shamatha and vipassana, tranquility and higher vision. I'd like to start by, with the sutra for untying the mysteries, the Samdhinirmocana, and then go to the teachings of the Zen master, Dai Doshin, and then go back someday to the sutra. which I feel is, it's like, to some extent, it's like the difference between looking at a tree and looking at a forest.

[01:12]

Start with a tree. But at the beginning, I start with a chapter on yoga in the sutra, where the bodhisattva love, Maitreya, asks the the Buddha. Bhagavan, abiding in what and depending on what do bodhisattvas in the Mahayana cultivate samatha and vipassana? Abiding in what and depending on what? The Bhagavan replied, Maitreya, abiding in and depending upon unwavering resolution to expound the doctrinal teachings and to become unsurpassably perfectly enlightened. Bodhisattvas cultivate samatha vipassana.

[02:15]

Yes. What the Buddha said? abiding in and depending upon unwavering resolution to expound the doctrinal teachings and to become unsurpassably perfectly enlightened. So the bodhisattvas who practice these meditations, they abide in and depend upon unwavering intention, which is twofold.

[03:24]

One is the unwavering resolution to expound the doctrinal teachings, which some Zen students seem to not have an unwavering resolution about that. They seem to also not have an unwavering resolution about to become unsurpassably perfectly enlightened, but they're a little bit more comfortable with that. These two dimensions of the resolution, one is to teach, or in other words, one is to, of course, teach living beings, and the other is to realize this actual state of enlightenment. But it says here to teach, to give the teachings. So that's part of why this sutra is complicated. It's because in the Vipassana teaching, in the Vipassana meditation, the Buddha brings up all these doctrinal teachings and they're kind of a mess.

[04:33]

And you really have to have unwavering resolution in order to open up to all these teachings, all these kinds of teachings that the bodhisattvas need to fulfill this resolution to expound the teachings. But that's why I don't want to get into the sutra right now more because I think maybe we need to develop this unwavering resolution before maybe you can stomach all these doctrinal teachings that the bodhisattvas are supposed to expound. A little bit more might be helpful though, and that is that Maitreya then asks the Buddha, actually Maitreya tells the Buddha, he's heard the Buddha talk before, and he says, the Bhagavan has taught four things that are objects of observation in Samatha and Vipassana. Four types of objects for this meditation practice of the Bodhisattva.

[05:39]

Conceptual images, non-conceptual images, the limits of phenomena, and the accomplishment of purpose. Those are the four kinds of objects. Then Maitreya says, Bhagavan, how many of these objects are how many of these are objects of observation, prasamata? And the Buddha says, one. And which one is that? I already told you. Which one? What? The non-conceptual, right. So among the four types, one are for Samatha. And how many are for Vipassana? One. What's that? The conceptual. And how many are for both? Two. So Samatha... In terms of these four objects, Samatha alone looks at non-conceptual.

[06:48]

Vipassana alone looks at conceptual. And when they're joined, they look at the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of tasks. The limits of phenomena mean... They study the nature of all phenomena. And the accomplishment of the task means they look at all the tasks, all the teachings, and all the practices that bodhisattvas need to learn about. But those second two categories, those last two objects, are studied by Vipassana and Samatha together. Okay? Now, I think rather than going into now the practices of Samatha and Vipassana alone, individually, that are presented here, I would like to switch to the teachings of the Daidoshin.

[07:51]

Yeah. Non-conceptual beings, that don't, that are not athletic minds, A non-conceptual image would be like, make the mind like a wall. That sounds conceptual, but in other words, a non-conceptual image would be, make your mind like a wall. Pardon? That's like a shamatha practice. Well, he says, externally, externally, don't activate your mind around objects. Okay? That's a non-conceptual image. I mean, that's a non-conceptual object. That's a non-conceptual object of meditation. In other words, you have all these objects, all these things happening, okay? Those are objects. But he's not saying look at certain objects.

[08:53]

He's saying whatever objects arise, Bodhidharma, right? He's saying whatever objects arise, let the mind be still. So the object of meditation is let the mind be still. In other words, look at the mind, and let it be still around whatever objects are manifesting in awareness. That's a non-conceptual object of meditation. That's a shamatha practice in a sense. Does that make sense? And internally too, any kinds of phenomena arising internally, the instruction is no coughing or sighing. No, you know, no approval, disapproval. No acceptance or rejection. Or no grasping or rejection. Okay? That's non-conceptual. All right? So in that sense, it looks like, if you interpret the Bodhidharma's instruction that way, it sounds like his instruction is initially, anyway, a shamatha type.

[10:04]

Now let's look at Dayi Doshin. So he teaches this one practice samadhi. That's his main teaching. And he... And one practice samadhi means to be absorbed or fixated on ultimate reality. To be absorbed in ultimate truth. That's... And ultimate truth is that which is the same everywhere. The ultimate truth is the uniform nature of all things. The way all things are the same is ultimate truth. Namely, they're all empty. So to be absorbed in meditation on emptiness is the one fact of samadhi. And he says you can study the Prajnaparamita scriptures, the perfect wisdom scriptures, familiarize yourself with them, and then based on those teachings, enter into the samadhi.

[11:14]

Okay? So have you done that? Have you familiarized yourself with those scriptures? And if you have, then you could just right away enter into the samadhi. Enter into, now concentrating on ultimate reality. In other words, be absorbed in the way all life is one. Or be aware, be steadily aware of the one quality of all life. That's some simple instructions on the... One practice samadhi, which is the main teaching of daidoshin. Absorption in ultimate truth. Concentration on ultimate truth. And then he says, but good women and good men, if you're having trouble doing that practice, I have some kind of warm-up exercises for you.

[12:29]

And I might mention also, some of you may have heard that sometimes they talk about that later Zen in China degenerated into being mixed with pure land practices, reciting Buddha's name or recalling Buddha, recollecting Buddha, which is a practice of the common people. And So they actually think of or remember Buddha. And Daidoshin gives instructions about how to actually visualize a Buddha. And again, we don't usually think of Zen as visualizing Buddhas as part of our practice, but he taught people who were having trouble just directly entering into meditation on emptiness, based on the Prajnaparamita scriptures, he suggested you pick a Buddha and like look at it and think about what it looks like and think about what it, you know, actually visualize and remember to think about and meditate on the Buddha.

[13:48]

And then he goes into that. I myself am not going to go into that too much right now, but I just say that he did that. So this is an early Zen teacher who's teaching recollection of Buddha, which the Chinese, the way the Chinese say it is something like nian fuo, nian fuo. And sometimes, the nice thing about Chinese and Japanese is that sometimes the words are shorter. So you have nian fuo. Thinking of Buddha, remembering Buddha. The character there, this means also mindfulness.

[14:52]

It's this character for mindfulness, Nyan. It's a nice character because it's two characters. One is heart or mind, and the other is now. So mindfulness is now mind. So be mindful or remember Buddha. Okay? So, there's that practice, which he actually recommends as another way to approach the one practice samadhi. And again, although I said I'm not going to go into much detail, I'll give you a little detail in that. He says, as part of this, you actually think of a particular Buddha. And think of the merits and virtues of a particular Buddha. Be mindful of the merits of a particular Buddha, like Amitabha, Shakyamuni, Vajrachana, and so on.

[15:53]

Various kinds of Buddhas. And as you start to meditate on the virtues of one Buddha, you start to see the virtues of all the Buddhas. And if you start to do this, things start to open up into meditation on the way all the Buddhas are the same and the way all beings are the same. So it's another approach to meditation on emptiness. But later he talks about this teaching using meditation or mindfulness of Buddha a little differently. And the way he does that is he basically says that nian hua, mindfulness of Buddha, is really a mindfulness mindfulness of mind, nian shin. Mindfulness of mind.

[16:55]

And then he goes, takes it another step further, and he says that mindfulness of mind is really a Wu, a Nian, a Wu, swap, shift. which means that... Oh, excuse me. Wu suwa xin or Wu suwa nian. So, mindfulness of mind is really having no object of thought.

[18:00]

So mindfulness of Buddha leads to mindfulness of mind, leads to having no object of thought, or having no object of mindfulness. The first character, it makes something an object, right? Or it makes something passive. It's a passive marker. Yeah, that's passive. There is nothing which is thought of. So mindfulness of Buddha is mindfulness of mind, and mindfulness of mind is having no object of thought. And having no object of thought is entering into the one practice, samadhi. I'll go over this again in more detail in a minute.

[19:15]

But I just wanted to say that in the psychological, in the psychobiological material I was talking about last night, one of the statements I read was that joy enhances the sense of oneness with the object. So in the infant, in the infant-parent interaction the joy they feel in that mutuality of attuning their pupils, in that mutuality of attuning inner states by the facial interactions, this joy that arises enhances the sense of oneness with the object. But then I say that the sense of oneness with object enhances the sense of joy and ease. So in interpersonal relationship like that, the attunement of inner states becomes very joyful, and the joyfulness again supports the attunement.

[20:27]

And in that process, a sense of the oneness of the object starts to develop. In this approach, it's more like understanding the oneness of objects leads to a sense of ease and peace. Understanding oneness of object is a uncontrived method of tranquilizing the mind. When you have no objects of thought, your mind is spontaneously calm. When you have objects of thought, your mind is disturbed. Objects disturb the mind. Having no objects, the mind is spontaneously calm. So Bodhidharma also said, tranquilize or pacify the mind with no contrivance. In other words, have no object of thought, which is just the way things are anyway.

[21:30]

The mind is pacified. Now here, just do the same thing again. Okay, one more time or several more times. So Dao Shin quotes the Prajnaparamita, A Prajnaparamita Sutra, the great Prajnaparamita Sutra. And in the Sutra he says, he found a place where it says, having no objects of thought, this Wu Sua Shin or Wu Sua Nyen is called mindfulness of Buddha. Having no objects of thought is called mindfulness of Buddha. To be mindful of Buddha is to be mindful of mind.

[22:45]

There is no Buddha apart from mind. and no mind apart from Buddha. There is no Buddha apart from thought and no thought apart from Buddha. Therefore, Buddha is without form and mind is without form. Having no object of thought is called mindfulness of Buddha. Having no object of thought or having no object of mindfulness is mindfulness of mind.

[24:00]

Having no object of mindfulness is mindfulness of mind. So right now, if you have no object of your thought, or no object of your mind, this is mindfulness of mind. So, do you have mindfulness of mind right now? What? What? Um... I think your point's a little off for right now, okay?

[25:09]

I'm asking you, I asked you, do you have any object of thought right now? Do you have any object of your mindfulness? Are you mindful? Say yes. Is there any object of your mindfulness? There is? Okay, well, now don't have an object to your mindfulness. Okay. Okay? So, if you don't have an object, then what are you mindful of? Huh? That's all that's left is mindfulness of mind. You mindful one. If you have an object of mindfulness, then you're not mindful of mind. Then you're mindful of some external object, right? You think something's out there, you're mindful of something out there. So, anyway, if you want to be mindful of an object, go ahead, it's a free country.

[26:12]

If you want to be mindful of external objects, nobody's going to stop you, maybe. But if you do not have an object of mindfulness, then what you are mindful of is mind. And there's one other thing you could be mindful of if you have no objects of mindfulness, which is Buddha. To have no object of thought is mind, to have no object of thought, to have no object of mindfulness is mindfulness of Buddha. These three go together. Mindfulness of mind is mindfulness of Buddha. Mindfulness without object is mindfulness of Buddha and mindfulness of mind. When you're mindful but there's nothing out there, then you're just mindful of mind.

[27:16]

Mindfulness of mind is a non-conceptual object of concentration, object of observation. When you're mindfulness of mind, you don't mind mindfulness of the word mind. You're mindful of things, you're mindful of experience, you're mindful of life without making it an object. This is a non-conceptual object of awareness. Therefore, this is a concentration, this tranquilizes your mind. When you look out and don't see objects, your mind is calm. In other words, when you look out and realize you're seeing your mind, your mind is calm. This is a non-conceptual observation. This is an observation of a non-conceptual object. Yes? Yes? Yes.

[28:22]

Buddha is non-conceptual in the sense that what you're meditating on, you're mindful of, is having no objects of thought. That's the Buddha you're meditating on. That's why this is a little different from the earlier one where you, like, pick a picture of a Buddha and visualize it. Okay? This kind of meditation where you pick the Buddha, a certain Buddha, what looks a certain way and has certain qualities, and you think about that and visualize it, that kind of meditation is... more like has an object, so that's more like, you could say, more like an insight practice. Now eventually, if you follow that line, that Buddha will break down and stop being an object of thought too, hopefully. But I won't say there's no kind of Buddhism where Buddha's an object of thought. Maybe there is. But I'm emphasizing the kind of teaching where Buddha's not an object of thought, where Buddha's not out there or in here.

[29:23]

If it's in here, that's like coughing and sighing. If it's out there, that's like activating the mind. So Buddha is non-conceptual, not an object of thought. Not having an object of thought, not having an object of mindfulness, you are mindful of Buddha. And you are mindful of mind. So you're walking around all day being mindful of all these faces, all these eyes, all these pupils. You're interacting with all these people, regulating your inner states with each other, synchronizing your deepest minds, perfect harmony, and you're feeling joy in this. And in this joy of this synchronization of your inner states with all beings, in that joy you have a sense of the oneness of yourself and the object, in other words, you have a sense that these aren't out there, they aren't external.

[30:25]

This is mindfulness of Buddha. This is also that everywhere you look you see your mind. You're constantly mindful of mind. And mind presents itself to you in all these ways. You notice? All these faces making and changing their expression slightly But this is your mind changing. Now, I say this is your mind changing means this is mindfulness of Buddha. Now, not mindfulness of Buddha is that these faces are not, they're changing, are not your mind. To think that they're really out there and they really are jerks, you know, then really, I mean, they're actually jerks. This isn't just my mind, this is a rat. This is a creep. Or this is a dreamboat. This is an angel. This is really an angel. It's not just my thought.

[31:28]

This is really an angel. This is really a good Zen student. This is really a low-quality Zen student. Really. This is really a phony. This is really a true practitioner. Okay? I mean, really. This isn't just my mind. Okay? That's called mindfulness. I'm not Buddha. This is called mindfulness on objects of thought. This is called having upset mind. This is called being upset. This is called being un-pacified. Because you've got these objects out there that are external, that are coming at you in these positive and negative packages, which are your mind. This is called not-mindfulness of Buddha or mindfulness of not-Buddha. When you realize what you're aware of in your mindfulness practice is your mind, You have no objects of thought. You have no objects of mindfulness. And this is mindfulness of Buddha.

[32:29]

When you really are that way and you really feel that way, the mind is pacified. Okay? Then, things go a little further. Okay? Then the, what do you call it, the, any kind of any attempt you're making to remember that these aren't objects, to be mindful that these aren't objects, to be mindful that this isn't external. The world, in my experience, is not external. This effort to remember, in other words, mindfulness of Buddha, it becomes, it sort of drops away, becomes effortless, and there's no more... It is effortless. And then, guess what? Guess what? Everything, all this stuff these people are doing and all the things you think are no longer obstructions.

[33:32]

There's no obstructions. Nothing happens that obstructs you. All these, can you imagine these things that people do? They don't obstruct you. And a lot of people say, wait a minute, I want to be obstructed by that person doing that stupid thing. I want to be destructed by that cruelty. Okay, fine. That's called mindfulness of not Buddha. You're back, you got back home. Good, congratulations. But this is called meditation on Buddha, mindfulness of Buddha. And when this thing starts happening, there aren't any objects, and when there aren't any objects, your mind's calm, and then nothing obstructs you anymore. Nothing obstructs your mind. Your mind becomes impartial. Your mind becomes not-to Not two. Non-dual. There isn't two anymore. There's oneness. There is oneness. There is not separation between you and cruelty anymore.

[34:36]

Say, wait a minute, I don't want that. I'm going back to where I was separate from cruelty. Fine, that is called meditation on not-Buddha. That is called being upset and prejudiced, partial and self-righteous. You can go back there anytime you want, in case you've left. But this impartial, non-dual, pacified mind cannot be obstructed because everything that happens is the one body, is the R-B-O-T. the one body, the real body of the Tathāgata. Everything is the real body of the Tathāgata. Everything is the real body of the Tathāgata. Everything is the real body of the Tathāgata. Okay? Everything is the real body of the Tathāgata. Now, if you think I actually can't remember it, one time is sufficient.

[35:40]

You know, I never forget, except sometimes. So, everything is the R-B-O-T. That's the world you live in. And it doesn't mean that we don't have some problems here to respond to. It's just the problem we have is the problem of the real body of the Tathagata. And, you know, sometimes what you do with the real body of the Tathagata is you take the nose and twist it. Harder than that. Sometimes you want to cut off somebody's hair by sticking it real high. There's various kinds of, you know, real body tathagatas all over the place. You have all kinds of responses, but your response is to the real body of the tathagata. And this real body of the tathagata is not external.

[36:41]

If it's external, then it stops being the real body of the tathagata and becomes an affliction, an obstruction. Okay? So this is Dayi Darshan's, one of his teachings. Now, a few pages after this, in case you happen to read this text, a few pages after that he says, sounds like the opposite. After he's talking about, he doesn't actually tell you to be mindful of Buddha. He doesn't actually tell you to have no objects of thought. He just says that when you have no objects of thought, the mind is pacified. When you understand that, the mind is pacified. He just says that having no object of thought is mindfulness of Buddha. And that when you understand that, that there is nothing that's not mine and there is no Buddha that's not mine. When you understand that, your mind is pacified and you developed this mind, this impartial mind, which sees the true body of the Tagata everywhere.

[37:48]

He doesn't tell you to do that, he just tells you that's the way it is. But later he tells you something not to do, which is, he says, oh, somebody says, how do we understand the true characteristics, how do we understand the characteristics of Dharma? How do we illuminate and purify our minds? And he says, not by being mindful of Buddha's name, not by restricting the mind, not by observing the mind, not by calculating thought, not by contemplation, not by practice observation, not by scattering and confusion. He says, just let it roll along. Or another translation is, identify with the natural rhythms of things. Another translation would be, make your mind like a wall. So, in other words, you don't actually like try, in this meditation, you don't try to like, you know, make something happen here.

[38:51]

So, this is, in some sense, just an elaboration on make the mind like a wall. Don't make it go, don't make it stay. And in various other places, I don't know if I should mention them all, but in various other places where I've been looking at bodhisattva meditation practices, this same type of teaching of how to become free of the idea that objects are external, is a big theme for bodhisattva practices. Partly because what bodhisattvas are about are embracing and sustaining all beings. If these beings are external, we're going to get burnout. If these beings are external, we're going to fall into expectations.

[40:03]

That's why we have to purify our mind that all these beings are external. purify our mind of the making external, the whole world, so that we can interact joyfully in a sense of oneness with all beings. And with a sense of oneness of all beings, we are supported joyfully in the interaction. But if there isn't a feeling of oneness, every interaction is a drain. So when you meet somebody and you see them as separate, well, it's a drain or it's a flood. So sometimes you look at them and your energy puffs up. Sometimes it gets drained away. But both being puffed up and being drained, both of them will burn you out. You get burned out from being puffed up by some faces and drained by others. The joy is not the puffed upness. It is the willingness to continue to interact in oneness without any gain or expectation.

[41:04]

And in one particular place in this sutra, it points out that when the bodhisattvas abandon external objects, which means they abandon the externality of all beings, then they pacify the incorrect mind. When they pacify the incorrect mind, which sees beings as external, they realize the middle way OK, Yehuda. So you want to relate? You want to relate? not imputing things to what he's been talking about?

[42:15]

Okay. When you are able to enter into the mindfulness, which has no objects, okay, Mindfulness that has objects or the awareness of no objects of mindfulness. Okay? Alright? The mind is pacified. In that pacified mind you do not impute externality to objects. Okay? Which means you do not impute any conceptions onto objects. It means you don't impute. The ability to compute the concept external and all the other concepts are available to your human brain.

[43:26]

You don't lose them. It's just that you no longer impute. you no longer impute, you no longer... What's another word that I ran into? Huh? Attribute... What's another one? Anyway, you don't impute. So, one of the main imputations that we do is over there, out there, external. Not me, which is one, two. which is partiality, which is prejudice. So this is one of the places where you can realize that the dropping away of externality... ... I'm trying to think of how to answer that question.

[44:35]

Wait, Isanchi? which is called tree, the phenomenal arising which is called tree, then you're asking, is there a two-fold imputation, one of externality and the other of tree? Yeah, I think there is. So I saw Eleanor and Brooks and Jane.

[45:47]

Was there anybody earlier than this? I think there was, wasn't there? Oh, Marsha had her hand up earlier, didn't she? It didn't? Okay. Eleanor? Yeah. Give it a name that itself is making it external. Is it making it true? Yeah, just by giving it a name, by having the indication. Um... Usually... They're inseparable. But what we're talking about here is the possibility of having this phenomenon which we conventionally call tree and not having it be external. So you understand that the word tree is interchangeable with mind.

[46:50]

You understand that. What is an arbitrary name? Tree. That's right. That's part of what you understand, is that tree is an arbitrary name. That's part of the insubstantiality of conceptions, is that they're completely arbitrary. They're just set up by convention. They have no reality other than convention. But they still do arise, and their arising is the mind. And mind has no form other than the things that are arising with it, like tree. It's just that this tree now, this phenomena called tree, is now being understood

[47:57]

as not an object of awareness, not an object of mindfulness. And when you understand that, or when you understand a tree in that way, the mind is pacified. And also you understand at that time, in this calm state, you also understand, or you understood at the same time you were calm, you understood that what you're mindful of is the mind. And you also understand that this is actually what the sutra says is mindfulness of Buddha. This is the kind of mindfulness which we call mindfulness of Buddha. But not Buddha as an object. And also, since you're both mindful of Buddha and mind all the time, you see that Buddha doesn't have a form. And mind doesn't have a form.

[49:04]

And that's why it doesn't have a form, is that none of those forms are the mind. A tree isn't mind. There's no phenomena that is mind, like a tree or a dog. Those aren't mind, right? Isn't that right? But they're not separate from mind. There's no mind separate from these phenomena. And there's no phenomena separate from mind. So mind has no form. There's no like got a mind form and then these phenomena which have form. So mind has no form but also that's why mind is Buddha. And Buddha has no form that's why Buddha is mind. And both mind and form and Buddha are not external to anything. Because there's no Buddha without mind, no mind without Buddha, no dharmas, no phenomena outside mind, and no mind outside dharma. There's no mind outside dharma.

[50:06]

Outside the truth, outside phenomena, there's no phenomena outside mind. There's no Buddha outside mind, there's no mind outside Buddha. Buddha has no form, mind has no form. Forms have no form. They're empty of form. And so on. But this whole process should be calming. If it isn't calming yet, you haven't really let this in. You haven't really like, you don't really like understand. You haven't really allowed yourself to take this teaching of having no object of mindfulness, having no object of thought, and particularly having no object of thought, is mindfulness of Buddha. You haven't really taken that in. Now, you don't have to take it in. But if you're not yet tranquilized by this teaching, it's because you haven't taken it in.

[51:12]

When you've taken it all away, When you understand it thoroughly, with no contrivance, your mind is calmed. And this is the same as not activating your mind around objects. So a tree, see a tree? Whatever that is. If there's a word tree, the mind doesn't get activated around it. which means you don't attribute reality to it, unreality to it. You don't contribute externality to it or internality to it. There's just the phenomena arising. And if there's no externality attributed to it, there is tranquility. And in this tranquility, there is analysis. There is discrimination. There is insight. And the insight sees how the imputation works with the dependent core arising and the suchness, which deepens the tranquility and promotes the insight and the investigation.

[52:31]

So this is... And the study, which goes on quite a while, into all the different teachings and to the full extent of being, to the limits of being and to the accomplishment of tasks, this study, which is now going to handle lots of material, isn't that difficult because you are supported by the real body at the cittàgata through this process. So this kind of meditation is, it starts with this unwavering resolution to practice these meditations in order to teach the Dharma. And then as you start to understand the non-externality of your experience, this composure opens the door to seeing everything as the Buddha. And this sustains you in the hard work of working with beings and working with teachings which are, you know, so complex and take so much effort that you have to sort of be upbeat in a big way and not feel hindered by all these tremendous opportunities.

[53:59]

of these extremely, I hesitate to say difficult, but extremely profound and subtle teachings which are so great to understand and then to teach to people. But if you make them external, then they're not Buddha visiting you, then it's kind of like, oh my God, look at that mountain of study I got to do. Oh my God. Look at that mountain of work I have to do. Look at that mountain of saving and band-aid changing I have to do. Look at all those diapers I have to wash. And so on. Then you get burned out. Or even if you don't get burned out that way, you get burned out by, oh boy, I'm going to be able to do all this stuff. And then it doesn't happen that way. Get burned out that way. The prospect of the practice is the real body of the jatagata. And all the unexpected ways that this prospect of practice manifests differently than the prospect are the real bodies of the jatagata.

[55:07]

So they should continue to sustain you. That's why this is emphasizing the importance of not object of thought. What we call Brooks. Going back to the previous question, you said that you could have a two-fold truth there. You could have a... He was saying, could you have two imputations there? One imputing externality and the other imputing tree? And I said, yeah, maybe so. Because in order to have tree, you have to sort of have the concept tree, right?

[56:10]

Externality isn't enough to establish the phenomena of tree. Yeah. Pardon? I heard that. I heard your answer differently. So now it's, did I answer the question? Yeah, I remember the question about the two indentations. I heard you say there was an externality beyond indentation. Externality. Treatments beyond indentation. Those were the problems. You could have that, though. I did say something like that, that you could have the phenomena we call treat, which needs the concept treat, and then you could further say that this phenomena is external to me. You could do that. I guess I would have thought that would just be another idea.

[57:19]

That's right. It is just another idea. So in a sense, they're not simultaneous. Say it again? You can never... That would just be an act of imagination to posit an external tree. Any kind of externality is an act of imagination. Every kind of externality is an imaginative act. And the way it exists is as an imaginative act. It does not have an existence other than imagination. There is no externality except to imaginative beings. Deluded imaginative beings. And you said this externality has no absolute existence. And I think that's right. It only has relative conventional existence to a deluded person who imagines it.

[58:22]

Now, you could imagine it and not believe it. You could just see it as an imagination. But even to be able to imagine requires some ignorance. Because when you're not ignorant at all, you can't really get it up. to imagine anything because you're so overwhelmed by how much everything's not happening and how quiet everything is. It's like, it's so quiet here. I just really can't like, I just can't see anything coming up out of this. It's like being on heroin. Huh? Your imagination doesn't function anymore? Yes, the imagination doesn't function anymore. But I mean, nothing's functioning. Nothing's happening. Emptiness is not a function.

[59:24]

The bodhisattva's realization is that there isn't any function. Nothing's happening. Everything's quiet. Everything's cool. We don't need heroine. I mean, things are, like, cool. Except not even saying that, of course. It is the super cool. Super cool. Filled with love. Which is willing to let go of that cool and get into, like, you know, stuff again. Which hides the cool. Because stuff arises again. And so then there's a tree and imputation of externality and all that. See, who was next? Yes. Yes. Yes.

[60:27]

So in this state. State? What state? No, I didn't really say there was no imputation. He was asking about imputation, and I said, yeah, that's imputation. Having no thought, no, what do you call it, no object of thought, having no object of mindfulness, that would mean that you weren't imputing externality to something, to your experience. But if there's any experience, though, there's still some imputation, namely of the conceptual identity of the experience. Still perception. There's still five skandhas. However, there's no externality.

[61:28]

Okay? Now, these five skandhas, what are these five skandhas? They're empty, right? And what else are they? Huh? That's what they're called. Feelings, perceptions. So that's the five. And what are these five? They got empty now, okay? They are mind. Yeah, well, one of them is mind. But anyway, yeah. So they're empty. That's one of them. They're not external. Perception is on the list too. We got the list. These are the five. We got these five. One, two, three, four, five. They're empty. They're not external to each other. They come up together.

[62:33]

The consciousness, these other three are not external to consciousness. They're one package of life, these five skandhas. They're empty. Part of the reason why they're empty is because there's no externality. The mind can't arise without these. These can't arise without mind. There's no mind without these phenomena. There's no phenomena without mind. That's part of their emptiness. But what else are they? Huh? What? No doubt there. We got that several times. They're not objects. They're mind of Buddha. What else are they? Huh? They're suffering? They could be, yes. What? Pardon? Is that the gate to liberation? Yes. They're Buddha's mind? Yes. But they're also Buddha's body. They're the real body of the Jatagata.

[63:37]

Okay? They're that too. So, they are empty and they hide emptiness. They are empty but they hide emptiness. But they also reveal emptiness by hiding emptiness with nothing else. Okay? Are you using mind and consciousness alone? Yeah. Why do they hide emptiness? Because they happen. Their happening hides the non-happening. Form hides emptiness. Feelings hide emptiness. Forms are empty. Feelings are empty. But they also hide emptiness.

[64:42]

But also, this form, this very form is emptiness. It's identical with emptiness even though it's hiding emptiness. Now, if we're going to go around seeing things as external, however, our minds are going to be upset. If we hold, if we continue to hold to seeing these obnoxious faces as external, then we're going to be upset. When we see these faces as external, these gorgeous faces as external, we're going to be upset. When we see these lovely and repulsive faces as external, we're going to be upset. And if we're upset and seeing things external, then this talk about, you know, that these things that are hiding emptiness are also revealing emptiness, is not really going to register. So part of the bodhisattva practice here is the unshakable resolution to understand this, to actually understand this thing of these bodhisattvas.

[65:58]

lovely and jerky people are not external. And in that calm that comes with our understanding, we start to see in that unprejudiced mind which develops there, we start to understand that everything is unobstructed. And then everything starts to show us emptiness. It starts to show us the unarisen, nirvanic condition that's always there in all events. Now, you had your hand raised now, this time, right? Now, who else was before her over there? Adam and Vic? So it's Adam, I think Adam, Vicky, Marsha. Maybe we should stop there. Yes? I have a question about the use of the word mind in this conversation. Yeah?

[67:02]

I understand what you're teaching. Sometimes mind refers to the analytical and vibrational issues, as in drop-off body and mind. It seems like mind refers to thinking in that sense, and other times it seems to refer to awareness, or consciousness, rather than the ability to just travel. Is that accurate? Yeah. So there's this character, this character in Chinese, the Japanese, and in Sanskrit, means consciousness and often mind. So there's which means mindfulness. And then there's ,, which means discriminating awareness. So there's various words that often translate as mind or thought or mindfulness. Does that mean that mind and thought are different from mind? Yeah. Does that mean that awareness and consciousness are different?

[68:06]

Well, excuse me, say it again. You think of mind as different from mindfulness. And I think that's fine because, as you see, the character for mindfulness is different from the character for mind. It means within a living being, conscious being, there is awareness of what's going on there, isn't there? And sometimes the mindfulness seems to be not happening. To some minds, there doesn't seem to be any mindfulness. The mindfulness, in a sense, almost seems like optional for people. Not really, because when it's not there, we're miserable, but it is a different phenomenon, in a sense. It can be distinguished. Of course, all these distinctions are not external to each other, and don't really hold up, but still we can make that distinction. And it might be helpful to make that distinction between mind and mindfulness, and between consciousness and mindfulness.

[69:10]

So where I've been saying mind today... Pardon? Consciousness and analysis. Consciousness and analysis. Yeah, there could be that distinction too. Yes? Because sometimes when I'm sitting, it's like I'm aware of my mind analyzing or figuring things out for... thinking about things. And it's sort of like a body thing. Sometimes I'm watching, I'm doing a different thing in my body. I'm playing solo with it, not just watching. Maybe I get that through books, and that's why I think that's quite different. I didn't quite follow what you said. You said sometimes you're sitting, you said zazen, but anyway, sometimes you're sitting in a zendo, I guess, do you mean? And then what's your experience? Do you want to go into this? I'm aware of my mind work, or my analytical processes work, thinking about people, thinking about things, thinking about what to do, [...]

[70:24]

It's not the same part as H. Okay, stop there. So that's an example of thinking. That's an example of having an object of thought. That's what meant by having an object of thought, what you just said. That is mindfulness of not Buddha. That is not mindfulness of Buddha. When the mind construes that what it's aware of, namely its own thinking, is separate from the awareness, that's externality of your own thoughts. And if you would realize that in your own thinking, your thinking occurs in the realm of mind, The teaching is that thinking occurs in the realm of mind.

[71:28]

Thinking is actually a particular momentary pattern of the mind, of the consciousness. But even though it's a pattern of the consciousness, one can construe that that pattern of consciousness is external to the consciousness. One can do that. So then there's this sense that this consciousness has an object, even though the object is a pattern of the consciousness itself. That's called having an object of thought in terms of your own thoughts. It's the same as thinking that the tree is outside yourself. Dropping away means, for example, that the sense of externality drops away. When the sense of externality drops away, the grasping drops away. When you're constantly mindful of Buddha, that means you're constantly not having objects of thought, which means that you don't grasp the objects of thought anymore, the potential objects of thought.

[72:39]

You don't grasp them. Yes. If you see them as external, you can't stop grasping them. Grasping them is the same as seeing them as external. And when there is the awareness of your own thinking process, or the awareness of a rock or a person, and you understand this is not external, that this is actually consciousness, then that's called mindfulness of Buddha. And that's called Mari mind-dropping away. But, This is not something you make happen because body and mind is already dropped away, because mind is not external to itself. Of course. And there is never a mind without thinking. When thinking arises, it doesn't come by itself, it comes with mind. And there's never mind comes without thinking. They're inseparable.

[73:40]

That's the way the mind is. It comes with thinking, always. It always has a pattern, which is its thinking. And there can be the idea, the concept of externality. And the mind can grasp that concept and call part of itself external to another part of itself. And this is called being upset. And this is a source of greed, hate, and delusion. Correcting this is to not have objects of thought. To give that up, which is the current state of affairs anyway, because these things are not objects. They're the mind looking at itself. It's not really an object. It's the mind looking at the mind. But the mind can't look at consciousness per se, so it looks at the things which are inseparable from itself. So the mind can look at something which isn't external and imagine that it is.

[74:46]

When it imagines it is, the mind's upset. When the mind's upset, the mind can't see straight. So then it sees all kinds of other problems and creates all kinds of other turbulence. When the mind understands that what it's looking at is not external, it calms down and then the vision starts developing. Then the analysis which is analyzing reality starts to unfold. But One of the key points to start on is to have no objects of thought. Which is to look out at the world and see that you're looking at the mind. And to realize that's not a fixed thing because you're also looking at Buddha. Your mind is not even like Josh or Andy. It's Buddha. But Buddha is not a fixed thing either.

[75:46]

It's Josh and Andy. And Josh and Andy are an external to your mind. So mind and Buddha and all beings are non-dual. Everything is the real body of the target. And if I have externality, it's good if I can notice that I'm upset about it. And it is upsetting. Every time there's the slightest hair of externality to another being, it's upsetting. And when there isn't the slightest hair of externality, it is joyful and ease. And there's that sense of oneness with the object, which is not external. which means it really is an object. And it's not a subject either. So in this state, there's no subject contemplating object contemplated.

[76:49]

Victoria? . OK. Marcia? . OK. Oh, you want to just answer the second one? This is Marcia's second question, which she's going to answer. They're kind of the same, yeah. Pardon? You haven't heard about them yet, huh? You haven't. And the reason why you haven't is because you weren't ready. And the reason why you need to learn is to help people. More required. You have to learn all about affect regulation and the origins of the self.

[77:58]

You have to learn all about neurobiology and biological neurology. You have to learn all that stuff. You have to learn all kinds of parts. You have to learn painting and architecture. It's simply to be able to interact with all these. You know, the smart ones. And the ones who are really like super, you know, jazzed up on all kinds of intoxicants and addictions. You need all these other teachings to help all these people. And you need to understand the extent of the teaching to realize the extent of your work. That's why you need this stuff. A number of Zen masters have asked that same question when they graduated from their Zen training, which you said it seems so basic. They did this basic training, thoroughly. They actually were able to walk around and see everything non-stop all day long as the real body to target and act like that.

[79:10]

You know, everything they met they treated like it was the Buddha. And they had this great activity to treat things as Buddha and understand this is the real body of Tathagata in these dramatic and surprising ways, but they were always really clear on who they were talking to. And everyone trusted them, that they could slap somebody without seeing them as external. And it worked. So then they said, some of these people said, well, why do I have to study the scriptures and learn all these teachings? And the teacher said, so that you can help more people. So a lot of Zen masters went to school after they were masters. And their training did not involve learning these extensive teachings. So it's like it says, it says they learn the extent of phenomena, the full extent of phenomena, and all the teachings, all the tasks that bodhisattvas need to learn to learn those.

[80:14]

I see Martin's hand. Was there some other hand around? Liz? And did you have your hand up again? Yeah. But I said before, just those three, right? Because now it's almost 10.30. So we have Charlie and Martin and Liz and Brooks. And was there somebody else? And Mio? And a long one. And if I'm going to do those, I might as well just do Vicky. She could probably take care of, you know, that would probably equal all yours. So should I do Vicky's and go until 11.30? Or should we do this next class? Could you write down your questions? I'll stay on this topic. If everybody writes down your questions, there's five of them. And we can remember those five. What? So it's Martha and Melissa. So that's seven. We could have those seven questions be the first seven of our next class, if you write them down. Even if you could write them down and give them to me. Maybe you could write them down and give them to me, and I could have that be the source of the talk at the beginning.

[81:20]

Something like that. Otherwise, I think we're just going to keep going, right? So, you know, good luck to us all on the wonderful practice of having no objects of thought, which is mindfulness of Buddha. Brought to you by Daidoshin Daisho. Sponsored by the Samdhi Nirmocana Sutra and your local NPR station. National Public Reality. And here's a copy of... So, Doshin's teachings are in the Zen Dawn book, and here's an excerpt from early Chan in Tibet and China, if you want to look at that.

[82:24]

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