I see most of you have your hands on the traditional meditation mudra. Is the place where your thumb tips are coming together right under your navel? I... I haven't been... I didn't do Dzogchen yesterday and I saw one person today my intention is basically not to do it for a while because I want us to get settled, all of us, first. Sometimes when we have sesshins in San Francisco or Green Village, people come to the sesshins I don't know what they're intending to do during Zazen, and also a lot of them don't necessarily know what to work on.

[01:16]

So, sometimes people need to have Doksan right away. But that's why I saw one person, I saw Shunsen, because I want, she was coming down from San Francisco, from Green Gulch, I wanted to know what she was going to work on with Sashin. That's why I asked you before Sashin to think about what you were going to work on and tell me so I'd know beforehand, so I wouldn't, so when Sashin started I wouldn't have to interrupt your sitting. And you would also know right at the beginning what you were going to do. So please trust me because maybe it takes several days for us to get settled.

[02:22]

And I think you all know what to do. I think you all know how to settle. And I think you basically know what to do after you get settled. And my talks are mostly about what to do after getting settled. I'm not putting so much emphasis on doing anything to get settled. to get concentrated. I leave that to you. I think you know lots of techniques of how to do that. But basically, you just do it. You know? You just settle down, that's it. Really there's no technique necessary. Just do it. and there's no need to wait any longer. Bodhidharma recommends that you pacify your mind, calm your mind, stabilize yourself, your body and mind,

[03:44]

without any contrivance, without any device or technique. Just simply do it. Once you've settled into a steady, mobile sitting position, then we go to work on insight. So again, most of what I'm bringing up for your consideration is about insight, is about wisdom. And these practices occur in a state of stabilized body and mind. these things I'm bringing up, these teachings I'm bringing up, in some sense just let them sink in, just remember them until the time comes when you can use them.

[05:13]

There are some of them, just the idea of like a surgical technique, a very subtle and tender surgical technique, which you may not be able to apply until your hand becomes very steady. You may not even understand what it means to do it until your hand becomes very steady. And when your hand becomes steady, you can just do it. The basic subtle surgical technique is, of course, drop-cell clinging, to identify the place and just put your finger on it and poof, put the finger of your awareness on it and that's it, the drops of the cell.

[06:17]

Muga asked about, you know, some examples of leaking. And seamless meditation is a non-leaking type of meditation. If you have a theme, and most Buddhist meditations that have themes, of course, are wholesome themes, still, if there's a theme, or if there's a seam in your concentration practice, there can be leaking across that seam. So if you use any technique to get yourself concentrated, if you're doing anything to yourself to make yourself into a concentrated person, there's a seam there. And such meditation practices have outflows. And in Buddhism, there are a vast array

[07:24]

of meditation practices, of concentration practices, which have outflows, which leak, or you might say that suck, because there's still some idea of improving or doing something to make yourself a certain way. These are recommended to people, but they do have outflows. Then after you have insight, After you see that there's no seam between things, that they're just one thing, then when you do meditation practice, it doesn't have an outflow. That's why Bodhidharma said, and his disciples say, that if you just don't have an object before you, your mind is spontaneously at peace. If there's just not a seam in the awareness between subject and object, the mind is immediately at peace.

[08:29]

And as soon as there is a scene, the mind is agitated. As I have said a number of times, Bodhidharma recommendation is, outside, stop all involvements.

[09:33]

inside, no coughing or sighing in the mind. With your mind like a wall, thus you enter the way. This is his instruction to his disciple, And then, one day, Bhoika came to Bodhidharma and said, I already have no involvements or

[10:39]

I've already ended all involvements." And the ancestor said, "...straighten your neck." No, he didn't say that, I'm saying that. The ancestor said, fall into nihilism?" And Bhaika said, no. Bodhidharma said, how can you prove it? Bhaika said, I'm always clearly observing. No words can reach it.

[11:42]

Therefore, no words can reach it." Buddha Dharma said, this is the essence of mind which all Buddhas have realized. Doubt no more. I have already ended all involvements." Now, when you say that, Bodhidharma may say to you, isn't this nihilism? So do you know what nihilism is? Now, first of all, I was a little surprised to hear Bodhidharma say this, because I didn't know he was such a philosopher. But I guess he had to use it under these circumstances to test, to see.

[12:46]

how his disciple understood this. And I'd like to point out that I'm talking to you now, I'm using words, and that they were using words with each other. In some of the stories I read to you yesterday, throughout the history, it says again and again, at these words, he woke up. At these words he had a great enlightenment. The great miracle of the Buddha is his speech. Speech is how the teaching comes, basically. And it's how we also test to see. what's going on with our friend.

[13:51]

So he's checking to see if this is nihilism he's talking about, when he says, I have no involvements. Nihilism is a number of things. One of the things it is, is it's actually the doctrine that nothing exists. So when you say, I have no involvements, one thing you might mean is that I don't have any involvements, like nothing's happening. There isn't anything. Another meaning of nihilism is that all the moral systems, all the ethical systems which have previously been established, are refuted. and therefore violent overthrow of the establishment is okay, and so on.

[14:56]

Any kind of self-indulgence would be okay then. This is the kind of nihilism you find in the Brothers Karamazov. It was a fad in 19th century Russia. Because nothing exists, you can do whatever you want. Karmic results don't really exist, actions don't really exist, so go ahead. It's like, in some sense, the photographic negative of materialism. So Bodhidharma says, is that possible that you've slipped into nihilism? And Bhaika says, no. Well, prove it.

[16:05]

I am always clearly aware. So he has no involvements but he is always clearly aware. There's no involvements but there is a radiant awareness. And there is no involvements with radiant awareness. Therefore, he says, words cannot reach it. when the mind terminates in mere concept. And there is just clear, clear awareness.

[17:16]

There is a word there. But no word can reach that word. For example, the word outside. Outside, stop all involvements. This is outside. Stop all involvements means no words can reach the outside. There's just the outside. There's just the object. No words can reach it. There's just what's happening. Clear, radiant awareness of what's happening. And nothing can touch it. Nothing can come from it or go to it. Nothing can approach it. It can't approach anything. There's just that. So something is happening.

[18:24]

There is awareness. Nothing can reach it. Nothing can touch it. There's no involvements. There's no activities of mind around it. In the herd, there will be just the herd. That's stopping involvements, and that is clear awareness. And no word can reach that herd. Yes? In the rain? If you say rain, that's the concept of that sound. What you're saying is you allow the concept, you allow the word rain, nothing after that. Right. You don't have to necessarily get to it. Simply just rain drop. I'm saying, Vasubandhu's saying that when you hear the rain,

[19:30]

you hear a concept of the RAIN. You don't, you don't, when you hear RAIN, you don't know, when you just hear the RAIN as a perception, you don't know you hear it. Okay? When you know you hear the RAIN, you're dealing with a concept. And there's a word. At the level of knowledge, you're dealing with a word. The word may not be RAIN. Even for this, it may not be RAIN, but there's some word you're aware of when you hear this stuff we call RAIN. When you know you hear it, there's a word there. There is a word. There is experience at a level below words, but we don't know about that experience, okay? And that experience below the level of words fuels the experience at the level of words, which is a level we know about. So when we're sitting here, the rain is so wonderful, because not only are we sort of gurgling around in the actual experience of listening to the rain, the direct, immediate, juicy experience of this rain falling and coming into our ears, we have that experience that's part of our life, but we don't know about it.

[20:42]

Then we also have the wonderful level of experience of concepts of what this rain is. That level we know about. That comes in word by word. Each word is just that. And if you're clearly aware And that's it. There's no involvements with that word, just the word. Then there's no self-clinging. There's just radiant awareness, clear awareness, and no involvements. This is the essence of mind, which all the Buddhists have realized. Yes? How can it be juicy if we don't ever cling? It's juicy. It's impossible to have a juicy perception. You mean, why do I say it's juicy? Yeah. It's intuition. I don't know that. It's intuition. Yeah. I don't really know that. I just said it. I mean, it rings a bell.

[21:45]

Yeah, it rings a bell, but not in the realm of knowing. You can't know this. What? I remember having the same discussion with Norman Fisher while watching the sunset, and he insisted that No matter how much you're into a sunset or into a flower or whatever, you're still going, your experience is still going through words, you know, you're still worried with these words. And I tried to say that you can have a juicy sunset, you know, without words. That's right. And what does Vatsyabhandu say about that? Well, what he just said, I guess. He said, well, what did he say? About the juicy one where there's no words, what do you say about that? The juicy one without any words? Yeah. Well, either that's just perception, or being ... It is just perception, and what does he say about that? Well, it's the serene body of release, or being ... No, no, [...] no.

[22:46]

I don't know. The serene body of release happens at the level of conception. Well, it's being grounded in your conception. Yeah, but that's not what you're talking about. You talked about where there's no language. That's perception, okay? That does happen. When does it happen? He told you when it happens. It happens before. Before? Well, it happens before. It's when there's a sense field and the sense organ of the triad in your actions. Yes, and? No, that's the point. It's before that. He says, the third transformation of consciousness always happens except in a state of stupor or epilepsy or in these special states, right?

[23:47]

Remember that? It's in those states when the so-called sixth consciousness, the mind consciousness, isn't functioning, which happens sometimes. Like if you're watching a sunset and you're having an epileptic fit at that time, okay, you actually can feel the sunset, you're experiencing the sunset, you don't know the sunset in an ordinary way, but it's happening to you, or in certain trances. Yeah, but they're not juicy. Oh, they're plenty juicy. You ever see anybody have an epileptic fit? Yeah, but that's not what you ... That's what I'm talking about. Really? I'm intuiting myself. When I see you do it, I can see obviously it is. You know? Obviously. If you watch a being who's operating below language, you can see they're very juicy, still. It's a very juicy level of experience. I agree with that too.

[24:49]

Yeah, the mouth does not be aware at the same time. Right. You don't know that level of experience. It's not a level which you know about. Anyway, I'm just trying to refer you back to the text. The text says that this level of reflection and then awareness of objects, okay, that happens all the time to a human being, except in special states. Okay? So I would say you might be right. that there are experiences like sunset or something that you could have and you wouldn't have language, okay? There could be such experiences, but those would only happen to you if you were in some kind of a coma, stupor, epileptic fit, something like that. That's when it would happen to you. Otherwise, the other part of your mind which converts things into concepts is always operating. That's what he says. Most moments your conceptual activity is going on.

[25:51]

Therefore, most moments you have knowledge of something. Right. Inspiration for words is what we call the level of just perception, sense perception. Those are the inspirations for words. Those are the percepts that you use to make concepts. Right, and you think you feel that way and the level at which you know that and feel that is the level that you say is not the only one that's always happening, or is not the only one you can know about. So at the level that you can know things, in the realm that you can know things, you can have a concept that there is another state which is different, which isn't like this, where you do know things. So you can make up a language story about a place where you can know things where there isn't language, okay, which is what you're doing.

[26:59]

Can you follow that? I follow it, but I… But you're also saying that there is such a thing. Yes, I… And what I'm saying to you is that… It's still a theory though, see, I feel like that's… It's a theory. Yeah, it's a theory. where I can perceive things without words. Right. That that itself is a concept. That's right. It matches, seems to match experience in a way or not. Okay. I can't quite … There is a realm, okay, I just want to tell you what the Buddhist theory is, okay. The Buddhist theory is, the theory of Shakyamuni Buddha, Vasubandhu and so on is, There is a level, there is an order of life called level of perception. Okay? That realm is part of our life, a very important part of our life.

[28:03]

Without that, we wouldn't have a life. That wouldn't be what life is. And if you forget about that level, you won't understand reality. Okay? There is such an order. All right? That's the Buddhist theory. And also, there's another order called the conceptual level. If you don't have that level, you also don't want to understand what's happening. Those are two levels. They interpenetrate each other, okay? And the other part of theory is the top level, the level of conception, that's the level of words. All those concepts are words, and that's the level where knowledge happens. The level below, there's not really knowledge. There's consciousness, there's awareness, but it's not real clear. Yeah, that's what you said. There's organ, field, and consciousness at that level. There is consciousness, but the consciousness in this case is not clear, does not produce knowledge.

[29:03]

At the next level, the percepts that were dealt with in the previous level, at the lower level, at the more basic and immediate level, which I call juicy. From up here I look down and I say it's juicy. You can see it's juicy if you watch organisms at that level. It's very juicy. The other level is juicy too. It's an important level. But down there they don't know what's going on. It's dark. That's what we call psyche when she was in love before she turned the lights on. There's even bliss down there. Is there a memory of it? Well, the pre-verbal consciousness is part of what is, again, the fuel for the verbal consciousness. So the stuff that happens there, those seeds there, there are seeds down there. All the seeds of past action which you could use to put together a concept, they're all there.

[30:06]

But they're in the dark. It's dark down there. That's all. There's plenty happening, you know. There's a lot of touchy-feely stuff happening down there. But it's in the dark. Nobody knows what's happening. So, Psyche wants to turn the lights on. So she turns the lights on, and Zappo, she gets words. And then she knows things. Okay? But then you have to reunite. You have to reunite. So we at the conceptual level want to reunite with the perceptual level. But when you're reunited, you don't go down there and not see this stuff. It's just that the separation between the level of conception and the level of perception is removed. They're united into one life. But you still don't get to see in the dark because as soon as you turn the lights on in the dark, it isn't the dark anymore. Okay? So sitting here anyway, enjoying the rain, it's wonderful that it's raining, isn't it? Aren't you happy? For various reasons, probably many people here are happy.

[31:11]

It's good for the farmers. It's good for the summer. It cleans the stream. And it's lovely to listen to at the level of concepts. But also we like it. It also makes us happy because at another level of our body that we don't know about, we're going, ooh, this is fun. We can listen to the rain. Of course, there's not that talk, but there is an enjoyment at another level. So we get this double enjoyment. That's where they got the idea of double mint gum, okay? You double your pleasure. The only problem is when these two levels of pleasure are separated. That's why you want to reunite them, and they are reunited when you, at the level of words, the work is done at the level of words. You can't do any work down there below, okay? Down in the sewer, everything's happening on its own. You know, it's taken care of, don't worry about it.

[32:12]

As long as you don't have brain damage, it's happening. The work happens at the level of words, because it's at the level of words that we start clinging, and interfering with the process, and separating things, and believing in the existence of things. So that's why we say, outside, no involvements. Clearly aware, no words can reach the word. Just word, after word, after word, after word, concept after concept after concept. Just that. Outside, outside, outside, outside. Outside with no involvements. Object with no activities around it. There's just the object. There's not the object and activities around it. There's the object and then there's activities, which are now another object. And not activities around that object, another object. There's just object after object after object. and we're very fast and we can handle them one after another. It's only the idea of clinging that groups them in together into these little mobs and makes it look like there's activity around things.

[33:18]

Everything that you're ever aware of shines pristine and completely brilliantly clear right before you. There's always only one thing and nothing can touch it. And that's no leaking. seamless, seamless meditation. And if you attribute, if you say, when something like that's happening and you say I have no involvements, if you say nothing's happening, that's something happening with an additional word reaching over to it saying nothing's happening. Okay? So, when a person gets close to this state, of just being able to leave things alone and have no involvement. This is very closely associated with what we call the realization of emptiness. It is the realization of emptiness. And at that point, things get a little very delicate and very sensitive and

[34:34]

tender and subtle. You have to be very still at that point. Because when you get to the point where you can just stop all involvements and let things happen, there is a reflex that can happen to that stop all involvements in the next moment, kind of reflex, which says something about that. Like, hey, wait a minute, who took everything away? the rug's being pulled out, or I have nowhere to get a hold. This is more language. It's not language about the actual situation where you have no involvements. It's just language that happened right after that. It's language which then says, well, I know how to respond to this, I'll think up something.

[35:35]

Maybe I'll think up there isn't anything. In other words, I'll fall into nihilism. That'll fix it. You think I can't get a hold of something? Well, I can certainly get a hold of nihilism. Even if you show me something like no involvements, I can make that into something. But that's not no involvements, that's involvements in a certain philosophical game called nihilism. If you say, I can't get a hold of anything, it's true that you can't get a hold of anything, but when you say that, you have gotten a hold of something. So that's not true that you can't get a hold of anything. You think you can get a hold of anything, that's why you're saying that. So there's a contradiction there. And again, I've just seen Simone Weil say something about this again. She says, when you can confront the void, When you confront the void finally, you're either going to get fed a wonderful nutrition or you're going to fall.

[36:47]

So if you can just meet your life without any involvements, at that point, this is the greatest food. You'll get really well fed. Unless you then get involved again, and then you will fall. And it's kind of like worst than usual then. It's one of the little hazards around in spiritual practice. Just like I said at the end of the talk yesterday, you don't need anything other than your body and mind. You can drop, you can put aside all your addictions. You don't need any of them. The basic addiction is this involvement around objects. You can drop it. It's scary, in a way, if you think about it, because you think you're going to fall into this pit, if you think about it. But if you don't do that and you just drop them, this thing, whatever it is, will be very good food.

[37:56]

And wasn't the rice good this morning? Wasn't that good? You didn't think so? I thought it was really good. Really good rice. Even without gomasho. Now you can put gomasho in if you want to, it's okay. But it was good without it. Just got to watch out for the addiction to gomasho. Gomasho is okay by itself. And it's okay with rice, too. But it's not too good when it gets stuck onto the rice. And the rice can't be separated from the gomasio. And you think if you take the gomasio away, you're going to be a goner. Really, it was good without it. Ahoyka said, if false thoughts are not born and you sit in purity, you sit in silent purity, the great sun of nirvana is spontaneously bright and clear.

[39:48]

If false thoughts are The great sun of nirvana is spontaneously bright and clear. So sitting in silent purity, it doesn't mean you don't hear the rain. It means in hearing there is just the heard. In the heard even. In the heard there is just the heard. That's what silent purity means. The false thoughts are the involvements around the hearing. False thoughts are something more than the heard and the heard. When there's something more than the heard and the heard, that's a false thought. When those aren't born and you sit there,

[40:55]

with the herd being just the herd. Sit silently in the purity of the herd being just the herd. Nirvana appears there. And one definition of nirvana which I like is unshakable faith in the efficacy of beauty. Unshakable faith in the efficacy of the herd being just the herd. Knowing that you don't have to do one thing more than that. Unshakable faith in white rice being white rice. That taste being just that taste and nothing more. If you have no, if your faith in that cannot be shaken,

[41:58]

You really, really don't worry about anything more than that. That's Nirvana. Empty, yet radiantly bright. Conditioned thought ended. Acutely discerning, aware, always open and clear. Nobody knows how to do that, it's just something that you just simply do it before you know how. It's right under our nose right now, this way.

[43:01]

Do you wish to speak? I do. Please speak. This sounds like it has a lot to do with we're a sweet audience and always being close. He said, it sounds like always being close to Buddha's three bodies. And I said, what have you been discussing? Sounds like it has to do with Buddha's three bodies and always being close. Sounds like what I've been discussing has to do with Buddha's three bodies and always being close? Yeah, well, that's right. He's in that lineage, that guy. Dungsha is in this lineage, right? We're talking about number 28 and 29, okay? and he's 38.

[44:05]

So, when we get to 38, I'll bring him up. Okay? That's my plan. I'm going down the list. Bodhidharma, Hoika, Tsong-San, Dao-Shin, Hung-Ren, Hoi-Nam, Yao Shan, Yuan Yuan, Dong Shan. So, when I get to Dong Shan, I'll bring up the three bodies. Now, I thought I was going to go a little further today than I did, but I got a feeling any minute it's going to be kind of like, shoot way ahead there. But yes, it definitely, all these people are teaching the same thing. It's the same thing. That case is exactly this. There's only one thing that they teach.

[45:07]

They say that over and over. There is only one thing. And all the Buddhas practice that one thing. That's it. There's only one. It's called mere consciousness. It's called the herd in the herd. It's called no involvement around the object. It's called no coughing or sighing in the mind. It's called making your mind like a wall. It's called being close to that among the three bodies of Buddha which doesn't fall into any category. All the same exact teaching. It's called thinking of that which doesn't think. What? If there's an object of thought, then you'll approach it, or it'll approach you. OK? OK? What?

[46:09]

Well, you said that just find the place of self-clinic. Just find that little spot in self-clinic. Yeah. Does that happen, that little spot, does that happen before consciousness of the object? No. Does it happen afterwards or how? Simultaneous. And the spot, I'll tell you the spot right away, I'll tell you, the spot where the self thing happens is right at the object. And at that very moment, simultaneous, that's what happens. Object, involvement, yeah we got involvement, that's self. It's right there with that involvement. I'm not going to let things just happen, I'm going to own them. I'm not soliciting profit. I'm gonna be there and cash in on this, and it's gonna be, I'm gonna judge it, and it's gonna be, you know, good or bad, and I'm gonna want it or not want it, I'm gonna hate it or love it.

[47:11]

It's right there. The spot where self-cleaning happens is right on that object. Right there with that blue jade. It's on that blue jade. There was a self-cleaning right there. That's where it will be. It'll be right with each drop of rain you hear. That's where the self-cleaning will be. Okay? That's the place you should be. Okay? Alright? That's where you should be. And when you're there, then just let that sound, just let the sound, the herd be the herd. If you can work on that and train yourself at that, the better you get at that, the worse you'll get at self-cleaning. Now you're training. You're training at hearing the herd in the herd. You're training for the scene, in the scene, for there just to be the scene. You're training at that now. Right? You're training at that.

[48:12]

You're relatively good, or not good at that exercise, at that training. When you're really good at it, there will be no self-clinging. The self-clinging is that there's more than the herd in the herd. What? Well, there's self. And there's a lot of other stuff then, too. Then when there's self, there's greed, hate and delusion and that long list of stuff, right? So that's where it happens and that's where it is cut off. The place it happens is the place it drops. Not everything happens at this place. There's more things happening than this. For example, there's this perceptual order. But that's not a problem. We're talking of just, we're just concentrating on what the problem is.

[49:13]

The problem is this clinging. Is this, you know, jumping around, mental activity around these objects. That's the problem. Once that's taken care of, this whole other realm of life which is totally working just fine, will just flood right back in there and you'll be united with it and you'll feel, well, who cares? Yeah, juicy among other things, right? Juicy! And you can go on, how wonderful it is, radiant, wonderful, nirvana shining away there, that's what you'll feel, right? You'll feel totally steadfast. You'll see beauty everywhere and you not only will see beauty, but you will know that that's enough. It's enough that everything is beautiful. That's good enough. Still, it's also nice then to work for the benefit of all beings, which you'll be much better suited to do after you stop leaking and realize

[50:21]

that the beauty you see everywhere and all the beautiful people you see who are in terrible pain, that's enough just to hang out with them and see the beauty, and you'll be solid just like a Buddha, and you'll be looking at exactly the same thing, you'll be working with exactly the same one thing that all the Buddhas work with, suchness. You'll be riding on the same surfboard as all the Buddhas. helping sentient beings. And be real close to that which doesn't fall into any category. You've got your three part Buddha body and you're not falling into any category. You're real close to that. Excuse me, you don't even have it. You don't even fall into having it. You're just close to it. Real close. Now this poem by George Herbert that Simone Weil memorized, you know, the word love could be replaced by breath, it could be replaced by suchness.

[51:41]

Suchness bade me welcome. Breath bade me welcome. Truth bade me welcome. But my soul drew back, guilty of dust and sin. But quick-eyed love, observing me grow slack from my first entrance in, drew nearer to me, sweetly questioning if I lacked anything. A guest, I said, worthy to be here. Love said, you shall be she.

[52:51]

I, the unkind, the ungrateful? Ah, my dear, I cannot look on thee." Love took my hand, and smiling did reply, Who gave these eyes but I? Truth, Lord, but I have marred them. Let my shame go where it doth deserve. And know you not, says love, who bore the blame? Ah, my dear, then I will serve. You must sit down, says Love, and taste my meat.

[54:07]

So I did sit and eat. In trying this tenderness, Let it guide you in learning the way of having no objects of thought. Let it guide you in the miraculous art of letting there be just the heard and the heard. In this journey we entreat that every knee can be placed.

[55:18]

With the true merit of Heaven's grace, to the Lord all things are safe and good. Om Namah Shukriya [...] Illusions are inexhaustible. I allow to invent them. Dharma is our compass.

[56:19]

I allow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I allow to become it.

[56:31]

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