The thought arose that since this is the last of the series of meetings that I'd like to offer lots of opportunity for you to offer feedback, ask questions, make comments. And I also wanted to offer something which is a little different at the beginning, which you can also comment on and ask questions about. Several people in the group here did a retreat at Green Gulch last week. Nine of the people here were in a retreat last week

[01:31]

at Green Gulch. And one of the things that we talked about was a story about an ancient teacher who was about to die. And as he was about to die, he said, if I don't die tomorrow, it will be soon afterwards. And then he said, I just have one question for you. And then he put this question out to the group. And then two people in the group, the head monk and one of the senior people, actually interacted with him. And then later that night, he had a further interaction with this elder member of the community. And then he made it through

[02:33]

the night. And then the next day at the noon service, one of the monks asked him about the previous day's conversations, interactions. And he said that the boat of compassion is not rowed over pure waters, that it's wasted effort for the students to put out a wooden goose in precipitous straits. Or in precipitous straits, it's vain effort to put out a wooden goose. And then he died. And the wooden goose idea is that in China, when boats were going

[03:40]

through real rough water and narrow straits, where they might hit rocks or bump into each other, sometimes they would put out a wooden goose ahead of them and watch how the goose went through the rapids, and then steer their boat according to the way the goose went. So there are two points. One is that the boat of compassion that the bodhisattvas ride on, they don't ride it on smooth water. They ride it on mostly rough water of turbulent change and challenging situations. That's where they actually ride the boat of compassion. And in that situation, it's said that to put something out there to figure out how to

[04:43]

go is a waste of time. And then there's a verse celebrating the story written a couple hundred years later by another master. And the verse starts out with, using the moon as a hook and clouds as bait. And part of what I want to talk to you about tonight is using clouds as bait. Maybe later we can go into detail about this story, but tonight I just wanted to bring

[06:03]

up the clouds as bait. Also last week, the moon that we had during the retreat, as you may have noticed, was a full moon. So in a way, crescent moons seem like better hooks than full moons. But we had a full moon last week, and in a way, that's actually in some ways a better hook. We also talked about a story about a fisherman that fished with a straight hook. And people noticed that, and they asked him why he did that. I don't know if he caught any fish with a straight hook, but anyway, they asked him why he fished with a straight hook. And he said, I think he might have said, a curved hook is for beings

[07:05]

or for fish that are turning away from life. I use a straight hook for fish who are turning towards life. I don't know if he caught any fish, because most fish, I think, are turning away from life. Those are the ones you catch with a curved hook. Anyway, he became well known for this, and the emperor heard about him. One thing led to another, and the emperor actually came to see him and asked him why he was using this straight hook. And the fisherman said, to catch you. The emperor never went to visit any other fisherman but this one. So he did catch the emperor. And it's with the straight

[08:10]

hook that the bodhisattva catches an enlightened, creative, liberated successor, playmate. And one more image, similar, is that there's a piece of calligraphy which is still over the door of where Suzuki Roshi used to live at Zen Center. And I asked him one time, what does it say? And he said, it says, cloud farmer. It both means cloud driver and cloud farmer. And I don't know if he told me that, but there's a little sort of inscription or sort of subtitle which says, non-thinking, which in the tradition

[09:10]

of Dogen, non-thinking is the essential art of bodhisattva meditation. So the image is farming or tilling, or driving through clouds. And that is an image for the essential art of bodhisattva meditation. And again, this is kind of dualistic for me to say this, but I've said it before, I'll say it again, that it's possible to practice compassion and to practice compassion in such a way as to bring benefit to suffering beings, to bring benefit to others and self in our suffering. And those practices of compassion are generosity, ethical discipline, and patience. This is compassion which brings benefit.

[10:17]

And some people who practice that way and bring benefit, they're willing to do that, but they aren't yet ready to be creative in what they're doing. Other beings, bodhisattvas, not only practice these compassion practices, but they're open to being creative. They're open to help others and self. They're ethical, they're patient, and they're also willing to be creative. And in the creative process I'm suggesting, not only is benefit brought or realized in relationship to self and others, but liberation is realized. And so what I'm leading to as a summary is that these compassion practices are not

[11:40]

practiced in pure water. They aren't practiced in situations where there's no affliction. They're practiced in turbulent, dangerous life situations. But in order for there to be not just benefit, but liberation, we sort of have to give up the wooden duck, the wooden goose, the curved hook, and open to the creative possibilities in this turbulence. In other words, use clouds as our hooks. And the etymology of the word nuance, the word nuance means,

[12:45]

subtle difference or shades, subtle shades or differences. And the etymology of the word nuance is cloud. Clouds are subtle and they also can shade. So what I'm proposing is that in the liberating creative relationship with ourselves and others, that we actually are working with a subtle cloud-like aspect of the relationship. We don't hook each other with a nice metal hook or a plastic hook. We actually can't get a hold of each other, but we have something to work with, something

[13:52]

kind of cloud-like, something subtle. We have nuance. There's a subtle cloud-like field that we can negotiate or till in our relationships. And the story, which I didn't bring up too much of, except that this guy was about to die and he gave the students a teaching and they tried to interact with him, the story is the story of the teacher and the student trying to negotiate the subtlety of their relationship. And I would also say it's understandable that some people who want to do good and do do good, who want to practice compassion and do practice compassion, hesitate, feel

[14:53]

uncomfortable with some of the dimensions of cloud farming. They're willing to go into the precipitous straits, but they would like to use a wooden duck or a wooden goose, something to get a hold of. But you can't get a hold of clouds, really. It seems like you can, but you can't, really. You can influence them and they influence you, but you can't really get a hold of them. And being open to that is part of being open to the process of creativity and liberation in the precipitous straits where the boat of compassion is plunging along. The practices that follow the generosity and ethics and patience, the next practice is

[16:05]

this heroic effort that you're actually willing to, like, not just go into the rough waters for the welfare of others, but even consider and be enthusiastic about giving up the wooden goose, because you really see it's necessary. You're willing to accept the ironies that initiate us into this space, that if you want to get enlightenment, you have to use cloud bait. Did I talk here last time about the fox and the bear? I don't know if it's clear why I brought that story up, but I think the reason I brought

[17:06]

it up was because there's a story about a Zen master who was the first teacher of the teacher in the story that I was talking about. The story is called Lu Pu's About to Die. That's the story we're studying, where Lu Pu says, if I don't die tomorrow, I'll die soon after. Lu Pu's first teacher was the great Zen master Lin Ji, or Rinzai. When Lin Ji was about to die, Lu Pu wasn't there at that time. Lu Pu had already kind of finished his studies with Lin Ji and moved on and had another teacher. When Lin Ji was about to die, he did a kind of Brer Rabbit thing. He's about to die and he says to his

[18:12]

students, basically, I don't care what you do to me, do anything, but just don't, whatever you do, don't throw me in the briar patch, except the way he said it was. Please, no matter what you do, do not destroy my treasury of true Dharma eyes. One of the great works of the founder of the Soto Zen in Japan is called Treasury of True Dharma Eyes. Treasury of True Dharma Eyes was a term in Chinese Buddhism. This Zen teacher said to his group, whatever you do, do not destroy my treasury of true Dharma eyes, don't destroy my teaching. I propose to you that he was like Brer Rabbit. Brer

[19:27]

Fox and Brer Bear to throw him into the briar patch. He was being ironic. He didn't think they were very smart and he thought they would take him literally and they did. He was happy. Linji wanted somebody to destroy his Dharma because that's what's necessary in order for the teacher to find a successor. So one of his students comes up to him and shouts at him and then he says, who would have thought that my treasury of true Dharma eyes would be destroyed by a blind donkey. As I pass away now from this class, I make a gesture of letting you know that one of

[20:39]

the reasons why people hesitate to enter the creative realm is because irony is somewhat difficult to deal with. But when we are offered and offer irony, when the situation, when there's enough concentration and kindness, irony is kind of like a key by which you enter the space in which the cloud feels negotiated by us together. When neither one of us is really in charge and we're all engulfed in the radiance of the clouds. Again, that's part of the reason why people hesitate, I think, to enter creativity. It's

[21:45]

not only turbulent, but it takes away your taking things literally or not literally. Because part of the power of irony, for example, is that you have to know what the literal meaning is to understand the intended meaning is not that. The literal meaning tells you what the intended meaning is and vice versa. And that's kind of difficult. So people say, okay, later on the liberation I'm just going to stick with my compassion that I can hold on to. Which is still good, it's just that this class is about the Bodhisattva's creativity and freedom. Which doesn't mean their freedom, it means their creativity with their partners for the sake of realizing freedom together. So I think maybe that's enough. And I will continue to work on this cloud bait with you.

[22:59]

And I ask you if you have any cloud bait you'd like to toss out for the golden fish. And if you have any moon hooks. There is still a moon up there, by the way. And I think it's been exposed. And there's cloud bait all around it. Yes? One of the students is Yan Song, and the other student is the head monk. And then there's also a monk, an unidentified monk, who asked the question the next day. So there's three monks interacting with Lu Pu. Is there something ironic in their exchange? Well, one ironic thing is perhaps the end of the story.

[24:08]

I'm open to the last statement that the teacher makes in the nighttime conversation he has with the student when they get together in the night to have a follow-up on the public interaction. At the end of it, the teacher says, How miserable, or the way we translated it for the class was, Tough, isn't it? Tough, isn't it? And someone listened to that and heard it, Tough, isn't it? So that could be ironic that the teacher says it's tough when he really means miraculous, isn't it? Isn't this like awesome what we're doing here? People in Berkeley are going to be talking about this. This is like, I'm dying, but I can still plow clouds with you.

[25:16]

Right up to the end, I can put out the kind of bait that catches bodhisattvas. And how wonderful that is, and how difficult it is because it's so subtle. How difficult it is to realize something that you can't get a hold of. And how wonderful that is that that's what we're doing here. What just popped in my mind was T.S. Eliot saying something like, How can there be an end to a drifting wreckage? Is the journey with clouds like riding through precipitous straits? Yes, it is. And I think the clouds are emphasizing that when going through the straits,

[26:19]

don't try to get a hold of anything that will not promote what? The continuous practice of moving through the straits. In this case, there's rhythm in the straits, and there's rhythm in clouds. Clouds, you know, vibrate like people, and there's rhythm in it. But it's like, again, this path, these straits are endless. So it isn't like we get through them and then, whew! It's like we get through them and, oh great, another one. And another one. As a matter of fact, we wish to never get out of these straits. The bodhisattva's freedom is very closely related to they do not want these straits to end, and they do not want them to continue.

[27:21]

But they actually understand that they probably will continue because there's beings in straits like this, and they wish to continue through these straits and never, never stop until everybody's in, I guess, everybody's in pure waters. And then we don't need compassion anymore. Was the teacher affirming that Yansang was demonstrating not being able to send a monk within the streets? Well, in the first part of the story, Yansang puts out this teaching, and the head monk comes forward and says something, and then apparently, again, this could be ironic, but what the head monk does is he actually comes forward and recites one of the teacher's teachings, and Lu Pu seems to criticize the head monk for that.

[28:26]

And then Yansang comes forward and says something, and the teacher and Yansang talk back and forth for a while, and basically the teacher says, pretty good, say more. And not everything, what do you call it, irony actually has to have a rhythm to it, too. And so you don't just say ironic thing, ironic thing, ironic thing. So I think, and I'm not being ironic, that when the teacher says, pretty good, say more, he wasn't being ironic. And then the elder Yansang says, I can't say it all, and the teacher says, I don't care if you can say it all or not. So I think he did actually feel, he was actually saying, Yansang, you're doing well. And then he invited him to come later

[29:31]

to continue the dialogue, and they did. And to me, more and more, it's just a wonderful example of freedom, and of freedom and creativity, the way they played in the final night of the teacher's life. I'm sorry, there's a typo. There's a typo in the published version. I fortunately have a manuscript of this story before it was published, which has correct, and I'm going to write to Shambhala and tell him that there's a typo. Which makes the story, makes that conversation, the first part's okay, but that final conversation in the night doesn't make sense the way they have it. They're saying that Yansang said something

[30:36]

that the teacher said, and they also left out one of the lines that Yansang said. So you did well to realize it didn't make sense. Yes? It seems like it's pretty hard to get rid of the wooden goose. How do you know when you've done that? It seems like everybody has a very distilled about the wooden goose. To try to know that you've gotten rid of the wooden goose is another wooden goose. Another part of the fun of this case is that Lu Pu's great-grandfather was a guy named the Boatman. He was a guy who, after he finished his training, he didn't want to be a formal abbot of a monastery, so what he did is he just went and made his living

[31:39]

ferrying people across one of the famous lakes of China. He didn't tell people, by the way, your ferryman today is a noted Zen master named the Boatman. So my feeling is that as he was doing this, he was a master at focusing on his job and not trying to figure out how to do it. Somebody said, how about the wooden goose? I say, it's probably okay if somebody got on the boat and started selling wooden geese to some of the riders. Some of the people on the boat might say, the captain doesn't want to use the wooden goose, but I'm going to use it, and then I'll tell him where to go. So I think when you're really focused, when you're really concentrated, it helps you not use something else

[32:43]

to figure out that you're concentrated. If you're concentrated, you aren't thinking about whether you're concentrated. When you're not concentrated, you might be thinking about whether you're concentrated or not. A lot of people think they're not concentrated, and they get involved in that so they don't realize that they're concentrated. When you're concentrated, if the thought that you're not concentrated arises, you just let it go, unless you're focusing on distraction as your concentration object. But when you're concentrated, you're not actually evaluating your concentration. When you're concentrated, the only thing you're doing with your concentration is giving it away. You're not trying to hold on to it, and you're not trying to figure out what to do next. So you're ready to maneuver in the clouds

[33:48]

without trying to get anywhere or avoid anything. Not trying to avoid things, but trying to have a subtle, appropriate relationship. You're welcome. Any other feedback, comments, questions? Yes? I'm not sure if I've learned anything in this class, because it's called a class, but I summed up today because it's the last day of school for my semester. And I see that being reminded of this kind of a life where we have, most of us, committed ourselves to a life of vow, and putting it in the focus of creativity is very...

[34:49]

It's applicable. It's very applicable. I was greeting students today, and I thought, just in the past month, I have been different, seeing each student, how they see the world differently, and how they learn their own, and how they learn in their own unique way. And it's very rewarding. It's also been very useful for me, because I'm dealing with almost hostile, not a manager, but a director. You're dealing with what? Almost hostile director. That's a precipitous trait? Yes. The job sucks, but the work is great, and it makes my life worth living. The straights suck.

[35:51]

And what makes them worth living is to be creative with them. If you've got a nice job, that's a precipitous trait, too, because at any moment, it can turn into suck city. But if you're creative with it, beings are liberated. And being a teacher, in a lot of situations, there's a lot of pressure on you not to be creative. Avoid paradox and irony. And that often is appropriate if people aren't ready to play with you. Maybe it's not appropriate yet. So the irony is waiting for the right moment. It's not always appropriate. Although it's not always appropriate,

[36:57]

it may be necessary at a certain point. If people aren't ready to play, then you don't necessarily bring out the materials of play. However, if they want to play, then you may need these materials in order to initiate the space where we play together. Bodhisattvas do not play alone. They do know how to play, but their vow is to play with others. And paradox and irony initiated into the space between. Any other offerings? Yes? How dependent is it on the other person? Yes.

[38:02]

It doesn't so much matter whether you're being ironic or not. My curiosity about that kind of enlivens my life. In which case, everything can be ironic. Or your curiosity about everything can be ironic. It's possible. Or even if everything can't be ironic, if things were not ironic, then they would be paradoxical. If you are offering irony to me, that's basically unless you think I'm not going to get it. If you're offering it to me and you think I'm not going to get it, then it's an insult to my intelligence that you think I won't get it. And then you shouldn't give it to me if you think I'm stupid. So when you offer irony thinking the person has a chance to get it,

[39:13]

it's a compliment to them because it takes curiosity and flexibility for them to hold the literal and the intended. Or to wonder every time anybody says anything to you, could they be ironic? Like one time Suzuki Roshi said to me, he said, I know you won't become arrogant because of this thing. And I thought, could he be saying that? I mean, could he be saying that I won't get arrogant? First of all, could he be saying that I wouldn't get arrogant? Or is he saying that I couldn't get arrogant because I might get arrogant? Why would he say it? Another time I moved a zabutan,

[40:16]

which means a cushion for sitting. I moved it with my foot and he turned to the person standing next to me and he said, we do not move zabutans with our feet. And that person had an interesting response. And I thought, oh, look at the way he teaches. Me. So now whenever I see a zabutan and I'm standing and I have feet, there it is. So I think it is good to sort of be ready that everything anybody is saying is actually not what they mean. And they may or may not know it. Right?

[41:23]

You're welcome. Now, what did he mean by that? Yeah? Well, I think it's important to remember, yes, that actually always what people are saying is not what they mean. That the words point at the meaning, but the meaning is, well, I don't know, it's a philosophy of language question. You're talking about meaning, and I would say more intention also. We use words to try to communicate our intention, but I think the intention is not the linguistic. But sometimes we use a word that's the opposite of what we think is the intention. Okay, so that's what you mean. Yeah. We actually have an intention, and then we choose a word which is the opposite. And we do that because we would, we wish, we might do that because we wish, our wish could be that we want

[42:27]

to take another step deeper into compassion. We want to invite this person into a deeper relationship than just saying the literal meaning. We want to invite the person into the space between us. And then now that we're in that space, now we can start using cloud bait to talk to each other. Do you have any? Well, I think that I've noticed that, personally, I often use a little bit of irony, a dash of irony in my communication, that I'm prepared for the other person to not get... Have you been doing that with me? Yeah. I've missed quite a few. But it's okay. I appreciate you telling me, finally. I'll be more careful. Is it happening now?

[43:27]

It's not sarcasm, though. No, I don't... Sarcasm is... Well, sarcasm might be that you use irony and don't think the person will get it. So, for example, one of my favorite movies is The Big Lebowski, and I often use lines from that movie in my conversation. Do you do it with me? Yeah, I do. Not very often with you. Have you seen the movie? I'm going to. You'll understand me better. Is that made by the Coen brothers? A lot of people use lines from that movie or other cult classic movies in their conversations. And there's the people who get it and the people who don't get it, but everybody still gets the meaning. There's just more layers to it. There's more depth. So maybe it's a form of irony, but it's not like an opposite kind of irony to the meaning.

[44:28]

I don't know what the point is. You don't know what the point is? No, that's fine. Yeah, well, clouds don't have points. I welcome you to say things that do not have points or hooks. Yes? He didn't say that they shouldn't. He just said... What did he say? Oh, yeah, you're right. He did say, just do anything, but just don't do that. He did say that to some group. And then... And his successor, the one who... And this is the time when one of his main students came forth and became his successor at that moment. At that moment he became his...

[45:34]

That was his dharma transmission moment where he came forward and yelled at his teacher. And again, part of the situation was he used the... Linji's treasury is actually yelling. That's his treasury. So a student came and yelled at him. He used the teacher's treasury of yelling to destroy the teacher's treasury of yelling. And after that, there was really no more good yelling in the tradition. So he said, do not destroy my teaching, which is often yelling and hitting. And the student came and yelled at him and then he acknowledged, he has destroyed my teaching, and in parentheses, he's the dharma successor. It's been successfully transmitted now because he's destroyed it, and he used it to destroy it. So Lu Pu tells his disciple not to put out a wooden goose.

[46:45]

He guides the wooden goose to put it on his head. A lot of people thought that Lu Pu is the wooden goose. Kimo thought so too, that Lu Pu is just one big wooden goose. He's a goose that's saying, don't use me. But, talk to me about how you're not using me. Show me by the way you talk to me that you're not using me. Let's have a conversation that demonstrates that you're not using me. I only have a little bit of time left. I've got to find out who won't use me. But don't just say you're not going to use me. Talk to me in a way that demonstrates that you're not using me. Yeah, tough, isn't it? Tough, isn't it?

[47:48]

But still, try. Try to do the tough thing, please. Yes? Your current understanding, would you speak up? You thought the wooden goose is the Dharma? Your current understanding is the Dharma? Your current understanding is the Dharma, or in your current understanding, it? Yeah. No. The wooden goose is not the Dharma. Yeah, it is. It's not the Dharma, so you should not use it. Do not use the Dharma to figure out.

[48:55]

Do not use the truth to figure out what to do. Yes? So you told him not to toss it away. Not to what? You told him not to toss this thing away. Not to toss what thing away? These items. Oh, yeah. Well, he said, don't destroy it. Don't destroy it. And by so doing, he discovered that they would be tossed away. No, he didn't. At the same time, they were tossed away. No, they were tossed away. He didn't guarantee that they would be tossed away, that they'd be destroyed, because it required somebody to be there. In some groups of people, if he'd said, please don't destroy my treasured two Dharma eyes, people would say, well, of course not, Master. We won't mess with your teaching. We won't destroy your great teaching. So saying that does not guarantee

[49:58]

that somebody will do what you're ironically telling them not to do. But this guy did do it. And he did throw it away, and that's how it gets transmitted, by being thrown away. Yeah, by throwing it away. Well, he did throw it away, but by throwing it away, it's reborn again. Fresh. Huh? Yeah, and now we should throw it away, so that it lives. And I think we did it, right? We threw it away, didn't we? I'm still holding it. You have more to say? Yes, I do. Well, you're welcome to just do it. Read this book, it's wonderful.

[51:22]

And I kind of was, you know, I was listening to it, and I was so enthusiastic. And then a year passed, I didn't see him. But then I looked at this book that I should read, and I even looked at the author on YouTube, and I'm kind of really interested in it. And I started reading it, and it's like 1,000 pages long. And I thought about 400 pages. Was it David Foster Wallace? Yes. And even in the prologue of the book, it says, how many people read this book? I said, but they don't read it. So you should read it. So I kind of even put it on YouTube. And they called it. And so then I saw him like a week ago at his party. And he kind of said, I thought, well, I've never read that. And it was funny, because in the past, I probably looked like clenched or something.

[52:25]

But I got so immersed in just kind of the ideas and just playing with this thing that I said, well, I'll give you a book report next year. Anyway, it's funny, because I'm wondering what happened to me while I was listening to him talk that first time, where I maybe didn't kind of, I was kind of probably holding back from him. I wasn't kind of like challenging him. Or I think if I had kind of been more engaged with him at that point, I would have maybe seen the iron can take over like he was doing. But instead, I was like kind of dealing with the pre-literal. Dealing with who literally? What? Who are you dealing with literally? I was dealing with a gentleman who was telling me to read the book kind of literally. In some sense, I think I wasn't quite expecting it. You know, it was like he was so enthused. I was like, OK, great. And I wasn't like really kind of meeting him there. I don't know.

[53:26]

That occurs to me. Are you meeting me now? No, I kind of left you behind a little bit. I think it's just kind of that new agenda that we have right now. Well, I invite you to meet me. And what will the date be? Pardon? What's a Majuli date? Majuli? What? It's kind of a date. It's called a date. A date. A date. You're being played with. Should I tell him? Yeah, tell him.

[54:27]

Go ahead. I'll tell him in jest. I'm sorry. Any other feedback? Yes. Do you think the Buddha is taught in the Ayurvedic fashion? I mean, we don't have a lot of direct information. There's doubt. When he taught, things were written down. Well, when you say that now, I'm just sort of opening my mind just to see if I can see any examples of him being ironic. Yeah, I'm just thinking about was he ironic. Talking about the Chinese tradition, Japanese tradition,

[55:30]

that was not his tradition. I'm thinking of one example, and I don't know if this is, this doesn't sound like irony as I start to tell it, but one story I've told often is a story about this person who was quite developed, I believe, as a spiritual teacher. And he was reflecting on himself and his understanding

[56:37]

and wondering if his understanding was authentic. And he was a person who was already teaching many people, but he still sort of wondered how he was doing. And a deity came to visit him and told him that his understanding was not too good, but that there was someone available who could actually help him and bring his understanding to fulfillment. And this person's name was Shakyamuni Buddha, and he was in such and such a place. So he set out to meet the Buddha. And, yeah, this is, I'm starting to see the irony, here it comes. And so he starts going towards where he heard the Buddha was,

[57:43]

and the Buddha tells, and around that same time, the Buddha has these abilities, I guess it's clairvoyance, he's aware that this person's coming to see him, and he says to his students, he says, I'm going to take a walk, and I'm not going to take an entourage with me. So if Shakyamuni Buddha was walking around with a lot of monks, he'd sort of say, oh, God, here comes a big teacher, right? He didn't do that. So he was walking, not exactly incognito, but without his glamour, so to speak. So he's traveling, and he's traveling to meet this person en route, and they meet at a city sort of halfway between where the two of them were. And when the Buddha comes to the town, he knows where this person is, and he goes to the place where this person is,

[58:44]

and this person's staying in a shed of a potter. So he goes to the potter, and he says, sir, do you have a place I can stay for the night? And the potter says, venerable sir, I do, but there's someone staying there already. You can go ask him, and if it's all right with him, it's fine with me. So the Buddha goes to see this person who's coming to see the Buddha, and the Buddha says, hello, excuse me, may I stay with you? And the man says, kind of like, sure, man, you can stay with me. There's room. So they're staying together, and they're both sitting in meditation through the night, and the Buddha's looking at this person and thinking, this is quite a good meditator. And then, I think, in the morning, the Buddha says to him,

[59:47]

under whom are you studying? And the man says, I'm studying under Shakyamuni Buddha. And then the Buddha says, have you ever met him? And the man says, no. And the Buddha says, if you met him, would you recognize him? And the guy says, no, I wouldn't. Is this ironic? And then the Buddha says, perhaps you'd like to hear some discourse on the Dharma. And the man says, yeah, I would. And then the Buddha gives this lovely discourse, which goes on for a while, and is really quite lovely. But now, tonight, I'm thinking this whole thing was really ironic. He's giving this teaching, which is a good teaching, but what he's really saying is, it looks like he's saying this, this, this, and this,

[60:54]

but actually what he's saying is, the Buddha's talking to you. The whole Lotus Sutra's ironic, then, right? The Lotus Sutra's quite... I don't know if the whole Lotus Sutra's ironic, but anyway, he's giving this teaching, which stands up, which has meaning in itself, and you can study it, but in context, this is... in context, the whole thing's ironic. Because he's giving this... it's not that it's false. It's like somebody... Here's another one. Somebody comes to learn arithmetic from a mathematician, and the mathematician teaches us some arithmetic. That's not a good example. So anyway, the Buddha gives this talk to the guy, he's talking away, and as he's talking,

[61:55]

the guy wakes up in the middle of the talk. He wakes up, and what does he wake up to? He wakes up to who's talking to him. That's what he wakes up to. But the Buddha's not teaching, I am the Buddha, talking to you, this is what you came to meet, here I am, hello. He gives a teaching, which is a perfectly good teaching, and which is true, in the sense of, according to his... he's analyzing the mind, actually. And that's what the literal meaning is, he's analyzing the mind. But the intended meaning is to show the Buddha. The Buddha's teaching you how to analyze your mind, in many teachings, he's showing how to look at your mind, but actually, that's not the literal meaning. The implied meaning is, guess who's talking to you? Guess who's delivering this to you? It's not just that you understand your mind,

[62:57]

which would be good, but understanding your mind is actually meeting Buddha. But Buddha doesn't, in this case, he didn't say, you came to meet the Buddha? Well, I'm the Buddha that you came to meet, hello. Are you happy now? No, he didn't do that, he did what the Buddha does, give talk. And as the guy understood, the guy understood who it was, however, he didn't say, hold it, Bob. I mean, hold it, master, I get it. He let him finish the talk, because he wasn't done. You don't have to finish it, I got the import. He finished it, and at the end he said, my teacher has come. I've come to meet my teacher, and my teacher has come. And then he apologized for not seeing who it was, and for talking to his teacher in a kind of disrespectful way. And I can see how you maybe not see that,

[64:03]

but again, this is something to try to put yourself in his shoes. He didn't know who it was, I didn't know who you were, I didn't know who you were, and I treated you, well, actually, like I told you before, he was treating him as though he wasn't the Buddha. He was treating the Buddha as though the Buddha wasn't the Buddha. And he was sorry, and the Buddha didn't say, no, no, no problem. He said, that was not good that you did that. However, the fact that you notice it and admit it, that is the turning of the dharma wheel. So, I thank you very much for your question, because I didn't get it until now. In fact, the Buddha is usually being ironic, because the Buddha is giving these teachings, but the Buddha, in the early teachings of the Buddha, he doesn't say, actually I'm giving the teachings,

[65:04]

but really what I'm doing is I'm here talking to you so you can meet me. And me is not the person you see. In this case, he saw this person, but that wasn't the Buddha. The Buddha is who he met when he woke up, and he actually saw the Buddha. And the Buddha is not this guy over there. And he didn't come to meet that guy over there, he came to meet the Buddha. And where do you meet the Buddha? Where do you meet him in the space, this creative space that you enter, when you open to irony and paradox and creativity, you enter that space and there you meet the Buddha. So, thanks for your question. That's a story which I didn't realize that he was being ironic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's another story where the Buddha is being ironic.

[66:07]

Where a mass murderer is chasing him, and he seems to be walking away. The literal meaning is he's walking away. The implied meaning is, I'm not moving. I'm with you, I'm your friend. Raises the daisy, that's good. That's an improvement actually. Buddha raised a daisy. It's like that too, yeah. It's like that too. It's like, here's a flower, right? Here's a flower. That's the literal meaning, he raised a flower. The intended meaning is, I'm here to meet you. And one person got it, got the joke. Just one. So sometimes the irony is fine because it doesn't disturb the other people.

[67:11]

Yes. Didn't I tell that story previously in this class? I said that a couple of weeks ago, right? Yeah, I think I said it. The Buddha is talking to his students, and the Buddha says, only the Buddha can see who the bodhisattvas are. And then this senior student comes up and says, well then probably shouldn't we treat everybody as though they might be a bodhisattva? And the Buddha said, yeah. So if we don't treat everybody as though they're a bodhisattva or a Buddha, we're setting ourselves up for a mistake. So it's no skin off your nose to treat everybody like a Buddha,

[68:20]

as though they were a Buddha. Not going to hurt you. Just like I was talking to somebody recently who said that her co-workers, she felt like her co-workers weren't being respectful of her, and I said, well you could just say that you request that they be respectful. And I said, it's not actually that much more difficult to talk to people in a respectful way than a disrespectful way. It doesn't take a lot of extra work. Like if you say to somebody, could I have some water? It's not that much more difficult to say that in a respectful way. Like, may I please have some water? It's not, you know... So actually, it would be a good idea if we treated everybody as though they're a Buddha, and then if we don't treat somebody like they're a Buddha, and they turn out to be, then we would apologize. And if we don't treat them respectfully, and they turn out to tell us, no, I'm really not the Buddha,

[69:22]

but you should have treated me that way, we should agree with them. Okay? Yeah, so let's try to do that. Yes? I got a different point from your story, because I was thinking of the setup we had in a previous class about sort of navigating the strengths of caring too much, or not caring at all. And I thought the story was a good example to me of somebody who cared too much about the image of a Buddha, instead of really caring at all about the person in front of them. Well, that's a little bit much. Not care at all, just care too much or too little. Too little. Yeah. And it was in that, he entered a space in between that. Exactly. He was meditating with the Buddha, and the Buddha talking to him, I think supported him to enter this space between

[70:25]

caring too much about meeting the Buddha, and caring too little about this person. So the Buddha helped him. They meditated together, and spending that time together. The guy got concentrated in the Buddha, then the Buddha's words helped him get ready to not care too much about meeting the Buddha, or too little about listening to this person. And again, a lot of people are very kind, but they do not wish to open to not caring too much. A lot of people are kind, and they're not into caring too little. A lot of people are caring too little, but those people are not usually the people who are practicing compassion. The people who are practicing compassion would, generally speaking, be on the side of caring too much. That's usually their problem.

[71:26]

People going to see the Buddha are generally too much into taking seeing the Buddha too seriously. That's the wooden duck, right? And the other people sometimes think, it's not the wooden duck. So, not the wooden duck also is not going to be helpful. To say this isn't a wooden duck. That this isn't an example that you could use. This isn't the way to go. Because the wooden duck actually does go through nicely. It does. It gets through. You just shouldn't use it. That's taking it too seriously. But also you shouldn't say, well, the wooden duck is no good, because it does actually go quite, if you could do that, that would be good. Another example, bodhisattvas are like wooden ducks. They're often compared, the wooden duck or the wooden goose isn't the common one. The two common ones are scarecrow. They're like a scarecrow. Another example is they're like a scared deer.

[72:28]

They don't think about how to be bodhisattvas. They just are bodhisattvas because of what people need. Then they're that. So, you know what a scared deer is? It's the bamboo tubes that fill up with water. And then when they fill up enough, they tilt over and pour the water out. And then they fall back and go... Bodhisattvas are like that. And you may think, well, that isn't a scarecrow, so that's not a bodhisattva. Yes? A leap. Is this a leaping scarecrow? This could be a leaping... What do you call it? Scared deer's leap. Okay, ready? Back to Linji. Anybody, you know, in any of the seminar,

[73:52]

daughter-in-law, it's like she couldn't... I guess what I'm saying is you have to throw your family away to have your family go on in a certain way. It's like she had to blend with these other... You have to blend with these other families, right? To have your family go on. It's like you have to give it away. And... Yeah, yep. So she was struggling with the same koan that Linji was. You can't... You don't know where your family's going to go. If you get this son-in-law, you have no idea what is going to happen. I told you a story about my dog, right? One of my earlier dogs. The one who was pregnant.

[74:53]

You know that one? So my dog... No, she wasn't pregnant. She was in heat. She was in heat. And she wanted to go outside. And there were some male dogs outside that wanted her to go outside, too. But I didn't want her to go outside because I did not want to have a lot of puppies. But she wanted to go outside. And I didn't let her go outside. I was trying to control... I didn't want grandchildren. Anyway, somehow she escaped. But shortly after she escaped, I got her. So she was running down the stairs. I saw her running down the stairs. And there were a bunch of males right at the bottom of the stairs waiting for her. They could smell her through the walls. And as she was running down there, I said, OK.

[75:55]

I accepted. I said, OK. I'll be a grandparent. Let her have puppies. I accepted. I was trying to control her. But then somehow when I saw her running down there, I gave up. But then, when it came time to select a son-in-law, I started to control again. There was a beautiful big white husky. And then another person who... Ew. And... I wanted her to be with the husky. But the other one, this one who I won't describe, was quicker than the husky. So then again, I tried to control who the son-in-law would be. And I tried to...

[76:59]

Again, I tried to assert my control. And I told her to come in the house. And she was very obedient. So she did come in the house, but she brought him with her. And then again, I realized how stupid I was. So I said, OK. That dog repeatedly taught me how stupid I was to try to control her. Over and over, I'd give up, and then I'd try to control her again. So again... The situation teaches us we should play. And we start playing. And then again, we tighten up and try to control. And then we see how stupid that is, and we start playing. And again, we tighten. There's a rhythm in it. It's not permanent. You don't enter there. You have to keep entering this place where we're not trying to control our playmates.

[78:04]

Where we give up using wooden geese and curved hooks in our relationships. We want to realize something, but without trying to control. And then we say, that's where it's at. And then we try to control. Oh, no, stupid. Okay, let go. Back and forth. How many times do we have to be taught? Quite a few. Thank you for coming to play with me and each other. May we meet again in the Bodhisattva playground.

[78:53]

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