Causation and Non-Self 

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before i forget want to thank charlie wilson
for making time and his war two
to record and
put these talks on
the cyberspace make you charlie
tracy and allen for
take care of the class
hand congratulations to down and the yoga room
community for finding a new place
which downside is quite good
and quieter than the old place
which is nothing
the surprising
we'll miss the noise but the
and the new place will be is on san pablo
moving in an august mary
and i found this note
and some in some notes and the note says it's hard it's difficult to practice alone
and it's the same
for practicing with others

the difference is that practicing together with others is the way
of the buddha's
the way of the to targeted
so thank you for practicing together and there were some
no things it came up at the end of class had like just kind of start with
one was the lowest said what about
the first two
elements in the standard
twelve element or twelve link presentation of dependent or arising the text that we've been using ah
starts out as you know working back from
i'm old age and death
to consciousness
and and then it because and then it resonates there between consciousness and name and form or between consciousness and materiality and and mentality
it resonates there for awhile and goes back around but it doesn't actually deal with the first two links that are often discussed
asked about those i just thought maybe a little bit about those
ignorance and formations literally it or ignorance informations
media and some scar
i'm so ignorance
is in kind of passive way
ignorance of are not knowing
the panic or arising
so the pentagon arising is based on not knowing the desist is teaching of the pinnacle arising
is based on
one of the main elements in the process of the pentagon or arising of suffering is ignorance independent or arising up suffering
you can make that more active and say ignoring the gonna grow rising of suffering
there's another way to talk about at which is that is ignorance is is believing
various kinds of false beliefs are wrong beliefs
a sampler with the believing that this very person was very self will be reborn
in various states due to particular actions
so being born in accord with actions doesn't sound too bad but the ideas that i hear this belief is to believe at this self this one here
will be reborn
according to our actions
so i just can't stop i have to say something more about that since she look so happy
and that is
a birth
a life
the way it is does depend on past karma
but the birth is not the birth of some past person
who was born
in a in a corridor depending on past karma
but some people believe that they then they know by karma but they still that but they don't know enough about the story of panic or arising because if you understand the or arising you or not he will no longer believe that this person has just been reborn
as this person
this person that's here before you has just been born
it is a fresh person who you could call robert
can you stand norbert
ah robert is etymologically related to norbert
can stand
if robert false but if rabbit follows charlie then it's he's ready
a readily
but he's not charlie and is not norbert and he's not any of those old ribs that have been given away have been donated to the buddha dharma
sixty five years have not been lost
they've been given away
have you read the cell phone
so a ignorance one point one of the renditions of ignorance is that this very person will be reborn in various states due to particular actions
the self the word itself
this very self didn't i said ten he said person sorry
this very self will be reborn in various states due to particular actions that lives can ask you what he meant myself
he said people and you must meet people
i personally approve up a person he added since same thing like a like i'm a person
and then to to think that this person who now
he's gonna be like reborn that make them a person into herself
but the person doesn't get reborn
it's not the same person that a person gets born he caught rebirth to
because this person depends on past births are the self depends on past birth but it's not the same self
it's not the same person to think that it's the same person is not understanding to think those the same self if not understand the pinnacle rising
so categorizing is not the ignorance is not understanding or not the anonymous don't to panic or arising when you're donate to better understand panic or arising you think that your the same person the same self that there was in the past you think that way
that's a manifestation of ignorance
can you say the past can be one second
or even faster than one second can actually have several selves appearing and disappearing within a second
usually they're usually they're faster than one second as you may have noticed
are you may remember
but i let me just finish to list here are you want to me you want to talk no gym before i finished my little list
later later
i'll talk to the future timo
mighty up
next one is that after death there's nothing that for some people who don't who have ignorance they have their belief is quite common here in united states these days
after death is nothing that's ignorance that of the ignorant view at the wrong view he previous regime
the previous regime emphasize that right
ah in another one is that life is a random process in which good and evil actions bear no fruit
it's another
form of ignorance based on understand independent co rising
another one is
that another belief is that another belief which is equal to ignorance is that by simply adhering to a certain religion or to a set precepts
even like bodhisattva precepts by simply adhering to them
one will automatically be saved
another one is another form of ignorance is the belief that material wealth will provide hat true happiness
so based on those kinds of beliefs were all set for the next languages
mental construction formations karmic formations
and acting
and in you know intending in accord with the views we just said are in accord with
ignoring the pinnacle horizon follows the first two links
briefly put
does it took to to the first two links are just too
yeah consciousness
but it's consciousness based on ignorance and reinforced a ignorance ignorance which reinforced by mental constructions in accord with ignorance in accord with wrong beliefs and you a consciousness with arises depending on that kind of ignorant and com information
so this consciousness is arms
you know
the file know you want to talk now chemo about something you can go ahead
every moment

yeah your am on my forehead juts into the spider and then i just jumped on where to go
oh hi

john kerry
there's an appearance and and you can believe in it and a predawn hours to panic or arising we are risk of believing that
like a new team are now
you can say strong connection that's fine too are just connection
actually there
the day
so it's not the same self still
this is a strong one racing going on one line
specific question yeah i i don't know if it's a strong because even within life not every moment is a strongly influences the next one as some other ones
for my been doing this night so it seems like a very strong delusion that have always appear at cheapest tomorrow so does that mean the connection
what you don't know the paris timo sometimes you don't even recognize yourself
and sometimes you're shocked to see what is brought to your intention as chemo
and you may be don't think your ram very often but he's often think you're not tmo and then suddenly realize you're not this new timo and other people also sometimes don't recognize the new timo if they knew the old timo so it isn't really the case that we we all know we somehow
as we can we do through some looseness their the belief is actually stronger than the empirical ah
the various team was actually look
you know probably more like ramps then than we usually than we usually think
you know
yeah i mean
like if you look at what we're actually dealing with in terms of sensory experience
what we think is that the team was read look more different than what what's on them on the map
but because of our ignorance and
comic formations we send this is really different from that
you know that we say we think fun is really really really different from not one
we think that way often but actually when you actually when the phone comes and this fun and when they're not fun comes in it is not fun actually you don't really feel it there that different sometimes sometimes they're like well i really wasn't they weren't that different even though they were kind of life one was fun and one wasn't
and after some period of time
it's like they're almost indistinguishable
in terms of your life
but we think you know we think well this is where this team was religious like the last one and i never mix them up with rob
we think that way this is a
this you know that there is a team owners reb andor and a unique a but they're not so different in their interrelated and you can't really get one without the other and that kind of thing so it's really kind of like not that clear as with sometimes say like that example i gave you other day where i went to see that i'd
doctor and he put on these you know this equipment which is kind of like losses and that he says to me that the world's actually clearer than it appeared than out there than it is to us
that's what weather where we think we think that the people are really more different from us than we can see
and so on so it's more nor is mine our ignorance that these things are strongly separated and and there's a strong connection
but and connect but there is a connection
but i hire
and there's and there's a unique connection between the various persons that are called timo
which is a different type of connection from the various persons and different type of perfection but it's just it's a different causal pattern the than the various rabs connection and influence on each other
just wanted

it the uniqueness goes through nor the uniqueness doesn't the person doesn't go through and the uniqueness doesn't go through but all phenomena are unique
you know within a universe
but does not a transmission of the uniqueness in the sense that the uniqueness goes from here to there the transmission of the uniqueness it's like the transmission of timo this timor arises and caesars and another one comes but there's no transmission of one team or to the next year

would be able to see
he might change moment
does not turn into something else or into force

where you said you wouldn't see it a rub turn into a horse right
but that i think we can mean as you usually don't
usually you don't want but sometimes you wouldn't be might sometimes she isn't it he probably won't but usually you won't but that doesn't mean that sometimes you want sometimes you might see me change into a horse
orange timo you might see that
it's not true that i changed into a horse or in the timo
probably probably i didn't
i changed into another person who is who who's not
timo unless team was gone and then i could beat him up if you make space for me
but i well just couple other things before we get into this kind of talk which we just got into the other one the other issue was a
lakshya to why i wanted to do a little bit was craving before i deal with them to the neil questioned by what's becoming this wanted to mention that craving
in this text they point out that craving arises depending on feeling right
and feeling arises depending on
ah sense contact and so on and we talk last week that although craving arises depending on feeling
it does not mean that feeling causes craving
because sometimes just feeling and there's not dreaming
but craving needs feeling
usually to arise and feeling needs sense contact to arise but since contact
does not cause
and feeling does not cause craving right that's kind of clear now right
in other words
feelings not a necessary and sufficient condition for craving if that was we should just crave can claim and suffer but there's a possibility of dealing with feeling in such a way that craving will not arise
and there's also a possibility a way of dealing with sense contact in such a way that when feeling arises will be even more likely to deal with feeling in such a way that craving will not arise so some
teachers really emphasize being mindful of sense contact
and being very kind with sense contact because if you don't dwell on sense contact you have a better chance of being kind to feeling
i'm not dwelling on it and then you don't second it into a craving
that makes sense right you said was it even though you may not know how to do it yet
other words don't wait he possible don't wait for failing to come
try to try to be quicker get be ready for feeling by dealing with sense contact
and then when feeling comes you have a better chance of practicing kindness and wisdom with the feeling and then
that will be the end of the you will understand the pinnacle rising them
when you learn how to deal with your feeling properly when you're kind to it and don't dwell on it you understand the pinnacle rising
when in ignorance is uprooted and so on
but i'm also i'm point this text if you look this text is nice because it only shows the usual thing have craving depends on feeling and cleaned the clinging depends on craving right
you don't have clinging without craving usually
what want you have craving you this is how you can have a strong influence on giving rise to clinging and so on
but it also points out in the text not only that relationship between
a craving and clinging
i'm feeling and craving but it also points out the relationship between craving and some other things that are dependent on craving it isn't the text dependent on craving there arises seeking
craving also
and depending on seeking acquisition arises and depending on acquisition ascertainment arising in depending i ascertainment desire and passion arises and depending on desire and passion
attachment and depending on attachment possessiveness and depending on possessiveness stinginess and depending on stinginess various evils and unskillful phenomena come into play
for example taking up sticks and knives
conflicts quarrel disputes accusations
divisive speech and wise
so that part of tax goes into the social effect of craving
the usual focus of this teaching is on the personal
suffering because by personal the with personally think that what we personally believe meaning to our personal suffering and our personal misery
but at that at the creating part this text also splits often goes in a direction of how it affects our relationships with others
she might meditate on that part of the text to
i'd like to just move on to becoming and yeah so i did some research on becoming and and yielded to what did you find out a neil

the agglomeration
characteristics that make up individual
coming together
an agglomeration of characteristics about around a person
okay but that's related to what i found i went to you know the the the the sanskrit term of the pali word is bava which can mean
but in the context of of this
process of colonization is usually translated not as being well sometimes is translated as being or existence but as translators becoming because if the process it's not it's not so much met meaning state but a process
and the western were one of the look studying a western word are using western philosophy one of the way to used at is as qualitative change
the coming as qualitative change of qualitative transformation
now in this context this this particular becoming his qualitative change based on clean
we have craving clinging becoming so this this is a project this is referring to a process of change of going from one phase two another changing qualities are changing based on clean
again in the research and western philosophy becoming as it used by heraclitus
he is very close to to the becoming in buddhism because heraclitus didn't see enough substantial things moving but insubstantial things and a process of change his
he's the one who said everything changes except change and other things like that he's a pre socratic philosopher
one way to see this phase is that it it sets the stage for rebirth it sets the stage for the kind of consciousness which ah which we call birth consciousness or
in conscious of received a link related lives
so like now it just think of it for now
there's a way in which if i'm ignorant and i have craving and clinging there's a way that that my consciousness sets up a connection between this person and an an an a person is gonna be born
but also gets gets ready for the person to be born for a birth to happen so that it was it sees this person not just as a new person
not just as a different person but the birth of a person and this person is seen as related to the last one even in a gross way the same person the same self so the becoming
the clinging
it's not it's not quite now setting up the next birth but the becoming is making arrangements
based on cleaning and based on craving and clinging based on feeling craving and clinging to try to control the situation so that
maybe this person will be a born again
in accordance with
the craving and clinging
it's not quite is not birthday though it's it's the kind of attempt to produce and control
so there's a kind of producing and controlling which sets up birth
mumbai moment but also across so-called across for different bodies
britain after bodies they get burned up in them a little baby there's the same process of the continuation of craving clinging and now setting up now the possibility of a berth in another room or even another animal but the same person
in a sense pit of this causal connection
but if not the same person instance of you know a carry over of that person
the same person in terms of a causal process being a person
so without maybe that's enough for starters i'm becoming
want to say goes back to team
strange connection
he said the same process
break out there cause a process for the rest of the pinnacle rising
for so why would you break i didn't mean to break it off
no i didn't i didn't want to break it off
is temporary work for us to describe
the provisional description
ah the differences
there's different persons one person is as a personage moment that's one person that's one kind of person another kind of person could be the cause of process
maybe that's maybe good because of process yeah
that kind of person wouldn't be a wouldn't be a self
but it but i understand that that might be different that might be difficult to say that as a person
the causal processes a person
put yourself in the process because by the nature of the cause of process you can't find the person
can find this person he can't find the cause of process since the person this person is a causal process
you won't be able to find the person because you can't find council process
he started with a person's of cause process
was a person is a causal process yes everything's a causal process
what is once you make an identification person cause of process
seems to me something to do that
then you have to start finding things know because the identification just the words and that there's nothing more to it than just saying that
get the person's a causal processes it doesn't there's the identity of the person is the cause of process the identity of the cause of process could be a person's name
you can do that but if that's too hard just forget about saying it's a person and i'm just saying that persons are causal processes and i won't call the cause of process of person
it makes it easier for you at this time
but i am saying that
if you've got a person and you understand that their cause of process in you you can't find a person because you can't find the cause of process and they can find the cause of process partly because you can't find a person if your talk if you're talking about to cause of process of a person he can't find us anything here when you when you look at on
the process you you won't be able to ascertain claim
or craver control organized however craving and controlling and all that can arise all those things can arise
as as a technical arises you can't find those either
yes loss

the what sense the whole sense would you say

we call it death because of birth

a she
it can have a shape
not know you can have a shape it just that he doesn't have a substantial shape
you can't you can't actually see you can you can see it but you just can't find it won't you see it
the other
coming in hair
a good thing because
continually motion so you don't stop when i feel this description of
just a second use cancer cases of the other he said it seems like an heraclitus to becoming a good thing but i think instead of thing is a good thing you could say that in heraclitus is pointing out that the becoming process is the pinnacle rising to
so becoming if you understand becoming which is which is setting up the possibility of a birth which sets up the possibility of a death if you see that becoming as as the calls of process in the becoming is another opportunity for becoming free from dependent
or rising
so so heraclitus his picture of becoming is is a kind of pointing to the dependent core rising of the becoming so becoming part of the dependent core rising of suffering but if you study the dependent core rising of becoming
then then the dependent arising of suffering also is


i was feeling as he was talking
he wasn't

it's okay with me if you say that
birth and death is not a good thing it's okay with me if you say that misery is not a good thing can you that's fine you can say that but i'm not saying that i'm just saying that this is a story of how birth and death or rises
and if you understand this story then you'll be relieved of this story
and you can call relief a good thing if you want to
but i'm saying that this this proposal this is how it works and if you understand how it works you you will be free of this process
and certain places arse recommended by different people who usually have those who have used those places themselves as ways to become free so then they like those things and you can say my most people get free at this point you know
and i don't hear too many people talking about becoming free at the becoming because you already got the craving in the clinging maybe a harder place to sort of study
but so without getting into like good or bad it you said
heraclitus his picture of becoming because that we're looking at him at this point of this change is qualitative change process where there's no substances it's very close to the buddha dharma and if we understand that
we become free of the process
which is sort of the point of this teaching is to become three of the process was the teaching is describing
and really to help the buddha's gave this teaching to help others become free of this process which is describing
fred and then crusher the article say that
there are various descriptions of this process as you pointed out and in the one
give them by
presumably the border in the rice seedlings cetera
link number ten is becoming and becoming various footnotes tell you in the american tradition
is the same as karma or comic action
and that step
inc in like algebra he said
comic action exactly action which can be avoided or the wise man he says refrains from action
presumably he doesn't mean all action he means
destructive action yeah he made action which is based on ignoring the pinnacle garages
a wise man acts but in such a way that no clinging is
is is is a is a engender
but it seems that have this point at which he says
free oneself yeah
right so if you look at the first two links the second link is karma so you can do it they're right yes however a you just pointed out if you're in if you're in the becoming phase appeared the phase where there's heart where were you have not been freed yourself from kind of formations
early on so when you come into your not freed yourself in not even to practice properly with feeling so you come into feeling under the auspices of your karmic constructions and and you deal with feeling such a way that you're craving and you deal with the craving and such a way that you're clinging and you do with the clinging
and such a way that you have becoming and now becoming is also karmic formations but it's karma formations not so much at the place where you're setting up a birth
but the same way that you could become free of comic formations not too much words setting up a birth but we're setting up consciousness yes
if you could practice the same way with becoming
the same you had the same releasing potential by that study because all these factors are at each link
the aren't like one after the other in the previous ones aren't there they're all they're the same time they're all there in one moment
so if you look at the buddhas in some text the buddha comes in at number ten at some bullet some places buddha comes in at number two sometimes buddha resonates between one and two sometimes between
you know during certain phases because of where the buddha's added the students is with he's talking about two and three all time exotic the places he sing ours is five and six but it depends on the people and their problems what part of the process would be most appropriate to get them to focus
and not dwell
but all of them are there all the time because the is there with all of them available as teachings to help people at different places so they're all they're all the time creating suffering people and releasing people from the suffering
a brought back to you christian
yeah a lot of people think peelings really good place partly one of the advantages of feeling is that it's a growth
mental factors easy to spot so it's easy to work on it
while like you know there's a story
so here's a here's a story to boot is not saying about pinnacle arising but this guy comes to see him who is quite an advanced meditator he's actually a teacher of many people
and but he's such a good teacher that he realizes he doesn't understand very well
i mean he realizes he needs received some help so he a long distance to meet shakyamuni buddha and he made some and they had this wonderful meeting which will tell you the short version of
is that it's a short meeting
ah and so finally the the buddha agrees to teach this person even though is busy begging for morning begging rounds so he teaches his person wise begging and he says okay by yeah train yourself like this in the scene that will be just a seen in her door used to heard
in the smack in and i'm gonna break this down for you because it is he summarized the next three in the smelled it will be just smelled in the touch they'll be just a touch and it tasted it will be just tasted and in the mental objects objects of mental sense they would just be the mental objects
this is training at the sense contact level
that's the way he taught that person
this person was very advanced so he's he sense there any given this this teaching the practice that way not to say yeah be very best practices but this is a teaching i gave this advanced person and then he said after he finished that's your thing he said when for you by this training
it gets to be for you that in the scene or just a seen in the heard that just heard and so on then there will be no
ah would you say first there will be no
you will be no identification with it with these things are and i would say brackets know this identification with them they will be no here for their regarding these things and they will be no in between and this would mean this will mean the end of suffering so the bullet he could say took that link for this person
i taught him out of focus on it in a way that he's really kind
and so kind that he wasn't dwelling in these things that all there was was these things it wasn't like him and things just completely totally engaging in this sense contact phase in this person was able to do that right while the buddha was talking to him by the time would have finished
he was free
and buddha named him you know the most rapid most rapidly awakened student there's his nickname he died in the afternoon of that day by the way
so that's an example of giving that stage first but i think a lot of other people giving the feeling one first is better or for some people
who are into becoming the third turns like that they somehow they're into it and they're aware of it then the buddha might say okay now you're you're setting up this you're actually like somehow able to open up this becoming phase with your in know
dude practice their other people are contemplating will actually
both at the stage to and that the stage of becoming there is some kind of planning for how you're going to you know like the example i've heard is someone wants someone has this idea of going to heaven
based on feeling craving and clinging they think they want they did they want to go to heaven they're clinging to the idea of going to heaven and then to arrange their to make a plan for their behavior such that they can act in such a ways to be reborn in heaven is becoming

to arrange your behavior to make a plan of your behaviors such to to get yourself born in a certain state
he had that kind of rebirth that's becoming
kind of blown up sense it can be quicker than
somebody might be into that the buddha might be able to see that and give them a lender instructing them into becoming state other people are making plans and other ways in their life
they're they're into karma too but they're not trying to give a rebirth that does not quite that
set up so then if they're thursday's a boot on my pass on that or you might say okay give them instruction of how to meditate on their karma the karma is going on in all these stages he just started some phase phases of your karma
somehow you're ready to look at sense contact or you're ready to look at feeling or you're ready to look at craving are you ready to look at clean
somebody comes to me just recently said how can i deal with painful clean that's where she was at that she's feeling she is feeling clinging and pain that was her situation so i said love the clinging
love this law and love the pain
love the pain and loved the cause of the pain that's where she was at so i didn't talk about can go rising but i was actually going to that lincoln into clinical rising because that's where she brought one right there except where she was at her situation was that was where she was at the for she was talking from i think that was a literal speech
i think that's where she was at so i spoke to at that point has seemed to be apropos it was kinda nice
and sometimes people
that's practitioners say on the occasion of birth how should i practice
it's a rather advanced people
but as you know it's quite more common people say now on the occasion of old age i should i practice now on the occasion of death how should i practice
so since the death phase but it's basically the same practice but it's at the death thing they're like death as a bigger deal to them than feeling they got feelings too you know pain
but they're more interested in the death rate now than the pain so they're craving actually it's more about the death and about the feeling
see i get a picture how this they're all there at once it's question how to skillfully work with his teachings all of them are there all the time and they applied at this moment and this moment in this moment and they also apply to future lives in past lives
but some people think it's really it's really most profound to deal with it in the present
and the past and to think about the and and there is a teaching or says those first tour from past lives and
birth and and death our future life
so what do you think that take care of you for now
elena i mean elena

loving your feelings

well first of all act without creating attachment because you you said act without creating kind of but you just said karma without creating karma
karma's action
but you can you you can act if you if you love for your at enough you can act without attaching

that opened the door to enlighten us
and you can end in this picture of this causal process you can imply that practice to any link and as you apply it foot any linking it than you don't dwell at any link than you realize that all the links are there and how they're all related when you when you see how they're all there and all related you're not stuck in the pro
process anymore

where'd you say

she hot see i see how they run see how they run

oh this this this this one we've been studying in his class
the wonder this class is called
yes this will we didn't talk about the right away if this is on the reading list it's it served it's one of i think one of the most highly praised
sermons on causation is called mohan madonna ceuta mahony down a suitor is called
i like to say is the great causes cetera
it's a great the great discourse on causation it's history it's very nice and as but there's many other ones
it's good to know the other ones so you don't think this is the only way to do it because it's not his infinite ways
to teach the pentacle arising because it's infinite beings and the border will teach this teaching
in in according to who
who she's interacting with
so sometimes you use twelve and some people call twelve eleven
sometimes you skip some in the middle sometimes you start it's cut the whole thing down you can just pick one link like this person has talking to
they just told me one link i dealt with one link
and she didn't think she was in bringing link but she was
people are basically
bringing the pretty much it's you can make more links than this but pretty much whatever number and she makes everybody will be included in the links you make because everybody is is presenting the pinnacle rising because everybody is a dependent or arising because it's all there is is dependent arising that's all we are
and deep faith in this teaching or
well deep faith in his teaching his deep faith and ignorance being that you don't have deep craziness ignorance is that you ignore the teaching of the pinnacle rising
so is pay attention to this teaching i remember that everything
this is a pinnacle rising so whatever you're looking at remembers his teaching that's what the buddha's
notre dame they remember this they're mindful this they learned to be mindful of the pinnacle rising
that's what i'm working on this year
this causation thing and
this is a little love start for us here
and charlie yes
i asked a question of the class last week yes and i'm and i think i
thought about for weekend
the question was on is there any relationship this of necessary or sorry have sufficient conditions we we found many relationships of this is a necessary condition to add
and i after thinking about it seems like i can't find any any condition like that but i'm wondering what you think
gothic that is any sufficient condition
i i choose not to think that way
i'm betting that there isn't
and my understanding is
and i'm betting on this understanding what i'm telling you is that only if there isn't sufficient conditions is their freedom
at their thumbs if there's some deterministic thread running through the universe i think that's going to pull the whole universe along with it i don't know thought i don't think there's anything like that in the whole universe there therefore freedoms possible and also misery possible the universe allows us to be totally miserable allows us to have
really difficult time and the universe allows us to be basically almost anything with various with varying probabilities
i don't think this i don't believe i don't choose to believe in the idea that things are strictly determined
i believe in the middle way in other words so not even if you describe the entire detailed the state of affairs right now that even wouldn't be a sufficient condition for the next day
boasting about that croatia we
don't we sometimes say that say what
last don't we also say that he cannot possibly describe the sufficient conditions for an event
we cannot yeah that's one of the things i thought about but i thought let's think more about it but that's right that's one of the things i was thinking about that who couldn't do that anyway
but he said if we could
then wouldn't that be
i wouldn't i think it wouldn't do but let's think a blast let's like this little by market for listening about for a week
when i'm what will lead and a meeting here next week they won't let us in your nursery
where we meet next week and see
let's meet let's meet in st paul minnesota
okay congress st paul ah
i'll try but a i'll be i'll be in minnesota next next thursday welcome to come and join me there i'll be in st paul
it's really nice this time of year
stein to get you a bit warm and trees are during camp buds
and that
the lilacs in minnesota are more powerful because of the cold
so the levy told be just starting to come out
i'm going to put the idea that weekend out to you to see if you're interested
yeah but i'd like to see you know actually people still writing back the i am interested that's like account know lois and you know who else
yeah so let's count to see it is actually a and also tell you how much she would cost and what day it is say i'm interested but i'll be i'll be in minnesota he said enough so just when you see the date in the time
ah i can only put a little kind of would i'm been a poll you to see if you're interested and also to see
well if you have any suggestions so do you want here first before we hear from you
before and after so before you can tell me you're interested and then after i hear from you
ah and then after that since i was before the alternative query and see what else i get and you can tell me again after you already told me what you to do i'm dumb and explore whether it seems reasonable to offer it
i was thinking of offering it in october
and then the room due to different room it's it's a room over there which is quieter and bigger
but it probably be it'll probably be something to do with buddha dharma
i'm kind of if i'm into that this year
ah continue
discussion will continue yes but not in a sense of that of it's gonna go and carry over you will continue in his sense said it will be a condition he will be a condition for the later discussion
but i will continue i vowed to continue to discuss the pentacle arising for this year
and this in if you have suggestions for the summer session here in the yoga room
i also welcome your suggestions i don't hear from you our product kind of keep going more into this dependent arising kind of stuff but if you have any suggestions the summer sessions in july and august straight
and it will be unaware where will be
it'll be it'll be a korea is currently undisclosed but later it will be disclosed just in in the nick of time you will be told where we will meet and it probably will be in berkeley right let's say that scores they will be at berkeley
thank you very much for you
open hearts
an open minds