The next topic is kind speech. So this is an action. This is an integrative action or an embracing action, an action, a type of action which has the function of healing the illusion of separation between beings, realizing the intimacy of beings, kind speech. And it's a short little section. Dogen says, kind speech means that when you see sentient beings, you arouse a mind of compassion and offer words of loving care.

[01:06]

So when you look at a living being, you arouse this mind of kindness and love and utter caring, kind words. Kind of simple, huh? I mean, simple to understand. So again, first you, when you look at a being, a living being, human or non-human, You look for the possibility of the arousing of a mind of kindness and love. And then when the time's right to speak, you speak kind and caring words. On the negative side, this is the absence of harsh speech.

[02:34]

It is contrary to cruel or violent speech. Any comments or questions about that? Yeah, it seems straightforward, doesn't it? Anything unstraightforward about that that you want to bring up? Well, when I think of some of the stories of Zen masters, they don't always sound like they're speaking kindly to their students. They can sound conventionally harsh. Yeah. Yep. But I assume their intention is kind. Yeah, so one possibility is that these kind Zen masters are speaking harshly because they think it might be helpful.

[03:45]

That it actually is harsh speech, but they mean it kindly. The other possibility is that it is harsh speech, and they mean it kindly. It actually is harsh, it is violent, and they mean it kindly. The other possibility, and that it's not kind speech, that they use both kind speech and not kind speech. Or you could say it's really not kind if you mean it to be loving and caring. And when you say the word, the person you say it to And those who are watching, especially the person you say it to, but I don't know, everybody that's watching realizes intimacy from this speech. It isn't that people are watching and feel less integrated with each other when they hear this kind of harsh talk.

[04:53]

It wouldn't just be that you intended to be loving and kind and it sounds violent. The standard would be that it actually encourages this intimacy, this healing of the separation among beings. And these stories are stories often where the person who's spoken to in that way gets over their their ignorance, they awaken from the dream of being separate from beings because of this apparently harsh language. So that is possible. And I actually, I think I have experienced someone raging at me and the rage giving me a feeling of union with the person and with myself. But I did not feel the person was... I felt the person was loving as they were kind of like yelling at me.

[06:06]

It was kind of violent, but it wasn't cruel. I didn't feel they were trying to be cruel or were being cruel. I felt like they just woke me up. They just kind of like were saying, You know, don't be who you aren't. Don't be a, don't be ingenuine. Give me the real you very strongly and, you know, fiercely. But so it's in some ways easy to just look inside and see if you really love this person that you're yelling at right at that moment, not just in general. And if you really think that this yelling will, I mean, you really feel this yelling is developing union and intimacy.

[07:10]

And they wrote these stories down, I think, these Zen stories, because in China, too, or in Japan, too, it was rare that a person could yell at somebody, and it'd be very, very helpful right at the moment. There's a story in the that I put in Being Upright about a great Zen master who was this type of person who yelled at his students and usually it worked really well. He was very strict. But one time he yelled at a student and it really didn't work at all. It broke the person. Because a very powerful teacher yelling at a student, it was the wrong student to yell at. And the person actually, it precipitated a breakdown. And the person didn't recover, apparently.

[08:14]

And the teacher said, I was wrong. I shouldn't have been so harsh with that person. That was a mistake. But in some ways, although that question does arise in these stories, still, I don't think there's any debate about these teachers looking at people Every moment they look at somebody, that they're looking at people and that they have the intention, when looking at beings, to arouse a mind of kindness and love towards the being. And then, when it's time to speak, to speak in this kind and loving, caring and loving, or caring and kind way. And then if it came out as a shout, it could happen but not very often except some rare these rare cases and do happen have happened and they were put out there as enlightened action but people you know look at it and wonder how that could be how could that be this is kindness

[09:43]

Not too many Zen stories about the teacher saying just a kind word, but of course those things happen trillions of times. I don't know if trillions, but anyway, billions of times the teachers have said kind words that sound kind, like, you're a good boy, or you did a really good job, or thank you very much. Or, can I help you? They don't write those down because everybody is bored with those stories. But actually, they do sometimes write them down when somebody's being violent and then they come back with that. Those stories are written down when the Zen teacher is attacked. very violently or very dangerously, and then they come back with some kind word, those are written down.

[10:51]

Because those are so surprising that a person who is being attacked can be unafraid and still look at the attacker as though this was their only child. Yes. You mentioned timing, you know, when time is right to speak. Yeah. And I know for myself that's something that I struggle with occasionally because it seems like you need to examine your own intentions when deciding the timing. So... Yeah. Pardon? Timing? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, first of all, it's... The timing of arousing the thought of kindness and compassion towards beings when you see them, it's always the right time to do that.

[11:58]

I think it's always the right time to do that, as far as I know. Anybody have any exceptions to that one? The timing of that is like always now. Now is the time to do that. Now. Don't think about when you used to do it, which is nice that you did, but forget about that. And don't think about doing it in the future too much, although that's okay. That's a nice thought. Concentrate on doing it now. So that's one. So see if the intention to... Regard beings kindly is there, and if it's not, see if you can find it. If it is, then act on it right away, all the time. Well, it's always our interpretation as to what kindness is. It's just a kind feeling, kind regard. And sometimes that manifests as being silent. Usually it manifests as silence in an adult. My grandson is nonstop talking. Not to say he gets kind regard for beings.

[13:02]

Remember, our founder's name is Shakya Muni, which means the Muni of the Shakya clan. And Muni means silent one. So generally speaking, sages are called Munis. They're called silent ones. They don't actually talk that much. They're actually quiet most of the time. And yet, even though they're quiet most of the time, Shakyamuni Buddha talked a lot, gave lots of talks, thousands of talks that were recorded. But still, he was mostly quiet, mostly quiet. If we talked all the time, if we were mostly talking, it would be more than thousands of things if you lived 80 years. So he was mostly quiet, mostly walking around quietly, mostly sitting quietly, mostly sitting quietly, listening to people. But then he was also quite talkative, which was great, what he said. So mostly, I think we'll be quiet.

[14:03]

But still that leaves lots of room on the other side of mostly, on the not mostly part, there's still lots of opportunities to talk. So if you have this, if you look at someone and you feel kindly towards them, you know, you appreciate them. You respect them. You want them to be happy. You want them to be really happy. You want them not to get hurt. You don't want them to get hurt. You don't want them to get hurt at all. Not at all. You like them just the way they are. And you want them to be happy, even happier than they are, although you like them the way they are. And if they don't get happier, you still like them the way they are. You appreciate them. And you really want the best for them. You've had that attitude. But it doesn't mean you say anything. But sometimes... you have something to say. Sometimes something to say would be beneficial. So the Buddha said, don't say it unless it's true, beneficial, and the right time.

[15:09]

Even though it might be true and beneficial, it might not be the right time, even then, even if you really appreciate the person and have something to say which is true and beneficial, It might not be the right time, for example. They might not be paying attention or they might be not in a receptive situation, in a receptive mood, and it might be better not to say it at that time, even though it's beneficial. So you might wait until they're sort of like ready to receive it because it's not, generally speaking, not good to be feel kindly towards someone and say something that's true and beneficial which they reject it's not it's not good for them to do that so you want to time it you want to give it at a time when they'll be able to receive it it's actually harmful for someone to reject kindness true kindness so that's the timing part of when you talk

[16:15]

And so to watch for that, you may not see the chance for a while. Or another situation is, if you're meditating in a meditation hall, you might look at someone and feel kindly, think of something true and beneficial to say to them. But because it's the middle of a meditation period, although it would benefit that person, it might disturb the other people. both because it's a silent period, but also other people don't necessarily want to listen to that. So you might wait till the person was alone. So the timing is important. But the point is, the main thing is the seed, the original seed, that this kind speech comes from a kind mind, which comes from the seed of goodwill. You have goodwill towards the person. And then you have this kind mind And then you have this kind speech, but it's not nonstop kind speech. Okay?

[17:19]

So we have to watch for that. But every moment, watch for, do I regard this person kindly? Do I feel warmly, really warmly? Do I really appreciate this person? Is this person dear to me, really dear to me? And if not, I need to work on that. Before I, in some sense, before I get to that place of really appreciating the person and really getting in touch with how dear they are to me, in some sense, I probably shouldn't say anything, you know, unless it's an emergency, like, you know. But even if it's an emergency, it's like even then, like if they're going to get hurt or something or fall on the stairs, in a sense, suddenly they're dear to you. Suddenly you realize you don't want them to fall on you. So you say, watch out. But you might say watch out for somebody that you didn't even know you felt dear about. And the watch out might be coming from that kind mind which you didn't even know you had. So we can work on that all the time, I think, can't we?

[18:22]

Can't we like, I mean, I shouldn't say we can, but I mean, wouldn't it be all right if we did? If everybody we looked at, everybody we looked at, we looked at kindly, wouldn't that be okay? And then that would be the basis. That would be the basic meditation. If I could just convey an incident that happened. I wanted to engage with people that are used to speaking in a very combative way. Yes. Where it's nonstop chatting. Yes. And there's no break in between. Yeah, like my grandson. Yeah. So it's difficult to sort of be a part of when there's not much room there, or what it feels like for me that there's not much room there. But you still want to be a part. Pardon? But you still want to engage. You want to engage, right. Well, you're looking at this person who's like, either you could say being competitive or being, what do you call it, hogging the airspace, right?

[19:25]

And you feel loving towards them, you respect them, you feel kindly towards them, but the timing part, you don't see a time. So maybe you can't talk for a long time. But maybe you can go like this. Because although you can't talk, you can make a hand signal. And they might say, that's interesting that you should do that. That reminds me of a story. Then you go, again. I think kind speech includes hand signals, actually. This could be quite kind. This could be quite... You could mean this, you know, that could mean that I'd like you to stop for a second so I could say something to you. Or at least I'd like you to notice this. I want to engage with you. I want to enact our engagement. They might say, what is that that you're doing there?

[20:30]

Yeah. Is there more about that? No? No? Anything else? Yes, Marcia? I wanted to ask you about Buddhist practice in regards to something to communicate to political leaders. Yes. They are not very ready to hear what you have to say. Yes, right. Perhaps in light of what you just said to yourself, are not really ready to offer kind speech because you have preliminary work to do. But then in a situation where you might think, well, I'm going to need to meditate long and hard on the goodness in my president, for example. But time is passing and situations are occurring in which you feel other people are being harmed or put in harm's way. How do you, how do we do this practice?

[21:31]

Or, yes, maybe it's a different, practice and spend a kind of speech yet. Well, there are other... It has to do with perhaps trying to communicate but not being attached to the outcome. She said, perhaps it has to do with trying to communicate but not be attached to the outcome. Well, that's yes, definitely. And that relates to the previous practice of giving. So actually, the first practice to set this up is giving. So that's another thing, is that you make your speech a gift. So this is the second item, but that doesn't mean that the kind speech isn't also a gift.

[22:34]

It is. It would be best if it was. And giving again means that you give for the sake of giving. You don't try to get anything from it. You realize that that way of giving if if you give something to somebody a political leader or whatever or or a child if you give something with expectation rather than give something just to practice giving that doesn't really transform if the beings enlightened they're fine but if they're not enlightened this way of giving does not transform them what transforms beings is to interact with a generous person who is generous just to be generous rather than generous to get something from them. Because they're very familiar with people who are generous who are trying to get something from them. And that just sort of plays right into their non-enlightenment. So if we speak in an ungenerous way rather than speak

[23:40]

which is like we're talking about giving. Giving is to let things be what they are. Giving is to leave the way to the way. When you leave the way to the way, you attain the way. When you leave people to being themselves, you attain the way. So speech that goes with leading people to be themselves is kind speech. And letting people be themselves is the way you can be with people if you really respect them and they're really dear to you. Now, you can say some people are dear to me, and people sometimes treat people who are dear to them, but they still are messing with the people who are dear to them. They're still trying, they're still, even though the person's really dear to them, and if you ask them, who is the most dear person in the world, they say, this kid is the most dear person in the world to me. And they would give their life for this kid. But still they don't let the kid be the kid. They still, you know, won't let the kid be, they still won't leave the kid to be the kid. They won't be generous to the kid to that extent.

[24:44]

So the kid, whatever the kid is, doesn't get transformed by that. But leaving the kid to be the kid is an intentional act of joyful giving. This transforms the kid, and speaking to the kid that way comes from that kind heart. And so that's another quality of kind speech, is that it won't be trying to get something in return. It would just be a gift. And the text says that this kind of speech has the power to transform nations or turn nations. It literally says, turn the heavens. It has the power to reconcile opposing political parties and opposing political leaders. It has that power, according to Dogen. And I think it has happened. We had the history of the Cuban Missile Crisis was transformed by kind speech.

[25:55]

Kind speech saved, prevented a nuclear catastrophe. People were talking to each other kindly. People were kindly advising leaders to look at things in a more kindly way. And they did. And because of that, people back down. Of course, it's rare that such a wonderful thing happens, but there are examples of that, where people are kind speech and letting things be happens in the midst of extremely strong opposition. So that's also part of what these practices are about, not opposing, not opposing beings, appreciating them, appreciating them, respecting them, letting them be what they are, not just like, okay, okay, whatever, but more like letting them be as a joyful act of giving.

[27:05]

When you let somebody be, realize that that's a big deal that you did that. you consciously let them be and you look to see if you're really thoroughly doing that and you feel happy to do that and you need nothing more than just being that way with the person you're not trying to get something out of that and then you speak from that place your words come from that place when they come and sometimes they do need to come quite quickly because They're ready to press the button to send the missiles. So somebody has to talk now, soon. But if they talk ahead of the time when there's kindness, they'll just push the person to push the button. They'll scare people. They'll agitate. People will stay defensive and cut off from each other. Do you, at this point, actually want to get somebody to do something, whether it's wanting to be able to get their shoes on?

[28:15]

Yes, yes. Or do you want your political leader to change court of action? So you have a getting back. Do you need to really be able to let go of that getting desire and then just accept them as they are while putting their shoes on before you serve? let's take the three-year-old um so you do want them to put their shoes on or you do want them to let you help them with their shoes on you have a three-year-old can they put her shoes on by himself already they put your son can they tie him velcro yeah yeah okay yeah velcro so you want the kid to put the shoes on and then you if you want a kid to put the shoes on you can tell a kid i want you to put the shoes on you can you say put the shoes on, please put the shoes on, or you can say, I want you to put your shoes on. Okay? And express it, and it's possible to express, I want you to put the shoes on, period. And see what happens.

[29:16]

I want you to put the shoes on. And just stop, just do that. And you do want them to put the shoes on. But now the question is, are you telling them I want you to put the shoes on just to get them to put the shoes on? Is that the reason why you're saying that to them? Or are you saying I want you to put the shoes on as a gift? Are you saying I want... Am I saying I want you to put... I want you to put those shoes on. Am I saying that to get my grandson to put his shoes on? Or am I saying that to heal the world? And someone would say, I'm just trying to get the kid to put the shoes on. Here in the world, that's somebody else's business. But I'm in a nice position. I really don't care that much whether my grandson gets his shoes on. That's the nice thing about being a Buddhist priest grandfather.

[30:22]

You actually don't care that much about whether your grandson gets his shoes on. What you care about is practicing giving and transforming him and me and our relationship because somebody is practicing giving rather than trying to control somebody. Actually, I do want him to put his shoes on because we were thinking about taking a walk outside, and he actually has very tender little feet, you know, and he really doesn't like to walk on rough surfaces. He's very sensitive and does not like to be exposed to anything uncomfortable. So if he goes outside without those shoes on, he will have trouble walking very far. So I might say, I want you to put the shoes on, or I might say, we're going outside now, right?

[31:30]

I think you'll be uncomfortable if you don't wear those shoes. So, actually, probably a good idea for you to put the shoes on. Another way to say it. But he may not agree with me, and then I say, well, I want you to wear the shoes anyway. But I can say that, and you can say that, being a mother... at the moment who wants to transform her child rather than being a mother who wants to just get one more pair of shoes on one more on the kid again you're going to get those shoes on quite a few times or not get them on quite a few times question is are you going to practice the buddha way with your kid and also you may not be able to get the shoes on even if the kid wants to put them on. It may not work out that way that the shoes ever get on. But if you say, I want you to put the shoes on in this kind way, even though the shoes don't get on, you did a good thing.

[32:38]

You practice giving with your child and you realize together your true relationship and you practice kind speech And whatever happens between you or in either of your lives from then on, that was a good thing. Getting the shoes on doesn't really necessarily save the world because we have people putting shoes on and going off and doing unfortunate things because they weren't taught kind speech, they didn't see kind speech, they didn't hear kind speech, and they didn't see giving. So they just stay in their usual self-centered way, which children are really good at. My grandson is incredibly selfish. I bought him some bubble bath stuff. I brought it over to him. I said, you want to have a bubble bath? So we poured it in, and it's this huge bubble bath thing. And we get in the bath, and he wants to get all the bubbles over to his side.

[33:42]

He said, I want you to have any bubbles, granddaddy. Tries to get them all over to his side and me be sitting there like in clear water. Just incredibly greedy little guy. He's amazing. He's almost five. And anyway, that's him. And can I respect him and appreciate him even though I'm just amazed? And be amazed by him? Yes, I can. And can I tell him what I want so he knows what I want without trying to get him to do it? I can. Can I tell him what I want to try to get him to do what I want? Of course I can. Everybody can do that. We know it. Everybody knows how to do that. He knows how to do that. He does all day long. We already know how to do that. This new thing we're trying to learn is giving and kind speech. It's speech that goes with giving.

[34:44]

And that's the kind of speech which can transform. If world leaders are already wise, we don't have any work to do. They'll just do their best. Or we can help maybe find some that aren't wise to help them. But basically, if they need some help, this is how to help them. They like generosity. They like kind speech. It transforms them. So if there's any way you can contact anybody who has... position in the power grid such that they can do things which cause people to get hurt, or I'll put it another way, they do things which doesn't protect the welfare of beings, and you want to ask them to do something, and you want them to do something, well, tell them that, but not to get them to do it. Because then if you tell them in that way, then they hear what you want, they get the information, they hear what you want,

[35:47]

but then they also get transformed at the same time. So maybe in their transformed state, then they can see how to use the information about what you want, because they also hear other things, too. They hear what other people want, too. The important point is they get transformed into a wise person so that they can do the beneficial thing in the field of all these requests. You know, Okay. Yes? I don't know anything about the life of Jesus or Christ. And supposedly, to people in a loving way and tried whatever he tried for the best possible reasons.

[36:52]

And he ended up being killed. What is your... What is my... Do I want to make a comment about this at all? Do I want to make a comment about his death? About the reasons that He aroused all of this hatred. Oh, I see. If a person practices kind speech, it doesn't mean that everybody is going to like the person. The Buddha practiced kind speech, but some people didn't like Buddha. One of his cousins tried to kill him. And that guy was a monk. And also there was a serial killer who was circulating in the neighborhood of Buddha and that guy tried to kill Buddha. And Buddha like saw that guy and appreciated him and respected him and cared for him and was generous with him.

[38:01]

And the guy snapped out of it. Buddha ran into some people who were really like in bad shape. and [...] they might have killed him had he not been able to um respond skillfully but he could have he could have gotten killed it it might have gone that way that he got killed that that was his story but he did rub some people they're wrong I mean, not to, he did not exactly rub them the wrong way. They felt like he was rubbing them the wrong way. If you stand up straight, that can annoy some people. If you hunch over, it can annoy people. If you, you know, if you look confident, that can annoy people. If you look self-conscious, that can annoy people. If you look frightened, that can annoy people. People can be annoyed by anything because people come with their own

[39:03]

history and look at things and because of their past action they feel a certain way about what they see. And that's unavoidable even for the greatest, kindest person. Some people will look at them and see them as a monster. And great people sometimes get put out, you know, in front of large groups of people. So you have a large group of people, so the chances are somebody in a large group is going to see that very kind person as a monster and try to kill him. So some people will be transformed by this person's behavior or speech, but other people will want to kill him. Well, even the people who want to kill him will be transformed. Because when they kill him, he will relate to that in a generous way. And they'll be transformed as they kill him. He will strike them back with kindness as they kill him.

[40:07]

Like Gandhi blessed the guy who shot him, right? The guy shot him and he blessed him as he dropped. And he was transformed. that guy, I would say. And again, there's many Zen stories about Zen teachers being attacked and coming back with kindness instead of defensiveness. You know, openness and kindness and warmth at a time when you ordinarily would expect defensiveness and revenge or resentment. But that doesn't mean you live a long time after that interaction. Here's a principle I... Well, two principles. One is that if you're sure that you will not kill anybody, you won't be afraid of being killed. But it doesn't mean you won't be killed.

[41:14]

It just means you won't be afraid of being killed, and when you're being killed, you won't be afraid. I propose that to you. And a related thing is to be nonviolent requires fearlessness. Because if you're afraid and you can't face that fear and get over it, you can be pushed by that fear to do violence. But if you're not afraid, Doesn't mean that every time you're not afraid, you're non-violent, because some people are not afraid and violent. But to be non-violent, to be able to be non-violent, you need fearlessness. I mean, to be, you know, live that way. So when people attack you, you don't then switch to violence in return. So if you're not afraid, people can attack you, and you have to give a non-violent response. And again, these are the stories that turned me to Zen were stories of people who were attacked and weren't afraid and therefore had a nonviolent reaction to a violence.

[42:27]

That's what these practices are about, these four practices. And speaking this way is part of becoming fearless. Part of becoming fearless is to Remember, moment by moment, to look at people with loving regard. That promotes... And do that not to get something, but as a gift. And that promotes a joy which frees us from fear, which makes us nonviolent no matter what happens. Buddha's disciples, no matter what you do to them, They won't come back with violence because they've practiced this kindness, this patience, and this generosity. Could you say something about if you're sure you would kill someone, you would be afraid of being killed?

[43:39]

Yeah. I don't understand. approach the approach the well first of all approach the the mind which does not want to kill think about how you don't want to kill see if you feel sure about that and if you don't see if you can get a little bit more sure or if you don't feel sure see if you can feel some fear of being of being killed and then sort of imagine now think about think about being more sure that you won't kill and see if you feel a little bit less fear and if you do try again to even be more sure and more committed that you will not and nobody's going to make you kill see if you feel more sure and then see if you feel less afraid it's a it's a it's actually a mind

[44:43]

training it's actually kind of thinking you can do this and you can look in your mind and see if you become less and less or more and more fearless the more you're sure that you won't harm or kill anybody else i think the reason why we'd be afraid of dying is because is related to that we would kill some from us that we don't care about the person much at all. We don't appreciate the person. And if we feel that way about beings, and then we think about us being killed, then us being killed is a severe being cut off. But if you know you will not cut off anybody, and you will not kill anybody because you will not cut anybody else off, then you realize that no matter whether you're killed or die any other way, you're not going to be cut off because you're not cut off. And nobody can push you to cut anybody off including yourself.

[45:45]

You're certain of that, and you won't do that. And the reason why you can have that certainty is because you are not cut off. So then how you die is not such a big issue because dying doesn't mean cut off. Being killed doesn't mean cut off. It's just a kind of a way of dying. I mean, it's a condition preceding your death called being killed. But you're not afraid because you don't see death as being cut off. You see it as a change in your body, but you're not cut off. You're part of the causal process still, and the main thing about your life is that You're committed to not being cut off and separated. You're committed to embracing all beings. And that's really your life. And there's no way that that starts or ends. And so you're fearless and nonviolent.

[46:51]

They go together. Think about it. Please think about it. And if you have any problems, let me know. I think the problem will come that you're not really sure. But if you get a little bit more sure or a little bit more committed, you'll notice you'll feel a little bit less fear and a little less frightened. And I wouldn't exactly recommend it the other way, but just try it the other way of thinking about killing people and see how scared you get of them killing you. That's the usual thing. You have the warriors on this side. getting ready to fight the warriors on this side, these things, people are thinking of killing those people, these people are scared. Or, if you're scared, then of course you're willing to kill. But even if you're not so scared, feeling so scared, if you start thinking about killing somebody, you get really scared of them killing you. That's, you know, that's, from ancient times, warriors were really scared the night before the battle, and they used to do a lot of drinking.

[47:53]

Get really drunk so you can't feel how scared you are because when you get drunk, you still remember you're going to go kill these guys. And therefore, they might kill you. But you're less in touch with your fear. But if you're in the army and you're not going to kill anybody, you won't be so worried about them killing you. If you're not somewhere thinking what you're going to do to them, And that's what they can do to me. You can kill them, but they can kill you in a lot of different ways. It can be really bad, and you're going to be quite concerned. So these are things. I'm kind of of the mind that that's a useful statement. Meditating, try to get in touch with that mind which is strongly, firmly committed to not killing and confident that you won't, and see how you feel.

[48:59]

That's one. The other is just practice loving kindness towards everybody. Have kind regard towards everyone. Try to feel everyone dear. That's quite similar practice. Sounds different, but that will also give you fearlessness. That also goes with you're sure you're not going to kill somebody. I'm sure I'm not going to kill my grandson, at least not before he's a teenager. But I may, you know, I may be able to continue to be really sure I won't kill him, that I really am ready, I'd be ready to die in his place. It wouldn't be that hard, I don't think. It'd be hard, a little bit, depending on the way I... the way it happened. It might be painful, but I think I could do it. Now can I do it for each of you? I have to look at that. And if I can, then I'm not going to be afraid.

[50:00]

If I can't, that's similar to I know I would never kill you. Giving your life for people is similar to you know you won't kill them. However, you can't stop everybody else from killing them. We're not in control. But when your mind works a certain way, it works a certain way. And when your mind is certain that it won't kill anybody, your mind is fearless. And when your mind really cares for people, your mind is fearless. Yes? I was thinking of emotional attachment. Emotional attachment, yes. And I noticed my speech kind of gets a little unkind when I'm talking to somebody that I really feel close to. I mean, it's more apt to do that than with somebody that's a little less close.

[51:06]

So I was just thinking this fear, the fear and the emotional attachment, Somebody you're close to. Yeah. Somebody I respect or somebody that I care for. But right at the time you're respecting them? Well, yeah. Like yesterday I respected her, but am I respecting her right now at this moment? Earlier this morning I respected her, but am I respecting her right now? And in fact... the person who you respect almost as much as anybody and who is as dear to you as almost anybody if your mind slips from that or if they do something and you're not something challenging or surprising or unexpected or like not according to plan which they sometimes do because they're They're changing. If they do, and then you don't reiterate this respect and this appreciation and this warm feeling, well, then it's not there.

[52:14]

It can go... These feelings are impermanent. This warm regard is impermanent. The people, the beings are impermanent, and our warm regard is impermanent. Our respect is impermanent. So, you know, somebody that you respect like 90% of the time or 80% of the time or whatever... Somebody who you many, many times have respected and appreciated. Well, that's great. But now, that's all that's gone. And now here we are in a fresh moment. And the respect won't necessarily come up. And the feelings of dearness won't come up necessarily. They'll come up according to causes and conditions. And one of the main causes and conditions of them coming up is past ones. But there still can be a break. And when there's a break, we can be... harsh and disrespectful and unkind to people who we have had many moments of feeling them to be very dear and having great respect for them.

[53:20]

And then it really strikes us because we've had so many moments of respect and now there's a gap in this wonderful tradition of love and respect. There's a break in it. And then we say, that old song, you always hurt the ones you love. The ones you love the most, you hurt the most. Partly because they are very vulnerable to you. I shouldn't say, they're in touch with how vulnerable they are. And they also tell you lots of stuff you can use against them. So that's why we have to practice. That's why we have to be diligent. We have to find a way to be diligent about this. So again, this was a simple thing, straightforward. Now it's a question of practicing moment by moment, face by face, person by person, respect, kind regard.

[54:27]

loving care moment after moment with everybody you meet and then the people you meet lots of times then moment by moment with that person moment by [...] moment and missing a moment which often coincides with one of these big changes the unkind speech can pop out So it can happen, and it's really horrible. I mean, it's horrible. That horror is mentioned now in a kindly way, I hope, to stimulate us to kind of be diligent about this. Because it isn't like, you know, because the slipping can really be bad. Sorry. Sorry. It's a dangerous world, yes. Well, if I am going to give someone the gift of being myself and being honest, and not that I have to be cruel or unkind necessarily, but if I'm annoyed with somebody, then it would be very difficult for me to be kind to that person.

[55:51]

Maybe the kindest I could be is myself and... To be honest, I had an incident this afternoon that really upset myself and kind of surprised me. I got very territorial. I came home and saw some people behind our house, and they were surveying because the neighbor up above is going to build a fence. I wasn't very kind. I let them know that I was very annoyed. I felt very threatened. And I think when I feel threatened and scared, instead of showing my vulnerability nowadays, I try to act tough. And I didn't say anything. I didn't use any unkind speech, but there were all kinds of things that I implied. Like my brother is an attorney. LAUGHTER My uncle's in the mafia.

[56:51]

Do you get the drift? When I feel threatened, when I feel threatened, what do I do with that feeling of threat? When I feel afraid, what do I do? Try to get the fear out there. out in front of me. Okay, I'm afraid. Now if I'm afraid, I'm at risk now of becoming violent. Fear? I'm a time bomb. If I'm afraid, I can be violent now. So I gotta watch myself very carefully. So I gotta focus on the fear. And try to settle down with the fear. But once I'm afraid, it's very difficult to then come up with the loving, respectful thoughts towards the object of fear.

[57:54]

But in order to come up with these thoughts now, now that I'm afraid, in order to come up with the loving kindness, I have to sort of look at the fear and practice generosity with the fear. Forget about kind speech right now. It's hard to practice kind speech when you're afraid. Not impossible, but hard. Because it's hard to look at somebody that you're afraid of and really, well, you can respect them, but to appreciate them and have kindly thoughts towards somebody you're afraid of is very difficult. We need to face the fear and let the fear be fear. And start to feel the joy of practicing giving with the fear. then we can start to generate these positive feelings towards the surveyors. They were really nice guys and... They probably trained them to, you know, because people probably feel often threatened by them.

[59:04]

So, you know, I went into some... I was playing baseball with my grandson And he threw the ball, and I was the batter, and I had a really good hit. And it went into the neighbor's yard, you know, across the side of the block. But I felt like it might scare the neighbor if I came over their fence into their yard. And I told him that he wanted me to do that, but I said, I think it'll scare the neighbor. So we walked around the block. and knocked on doors and asked if we could come in their house, you know. I think having him with me made me a little less frightening. And people let me into their house to go into their backyards. And I had to go into several before I found which one I was in. That was, you know. But, you know, you realize if you go into somebody's house, they could feel threatened.

[60:05]

So you have to, like, I think these guys probably get trained how to do that. I hope they do. But still, it's kind of scary to have a stranger come into your space. And when you start feeling threatened, then, unless you address the threat and work on yourself with the threat and practice generosity with that, the threat and the fear can blow away the loving-kindness. So it's really good in his practice, well, he doesn't say so in the text, but I just did this workshop last weekend at Mount Madonna on fear and fearlessness. So one of the main principles is we've got to get our fear out in front. And usually there's some fear. And sometimes it spikes, but there's usually some. And it's good to be in touch with it so when it spikes, it's not like out of nowhere. It's more like a spike, like you're watching the fear. Oh, spike! Okay, you're right.

[61:08]

It's more like you're riding the waves and here comes a big one. Rather than you're standing on dry land and suddenly there's a wave in your face. It's like, you know, I don't have my surfboard, you know, or I don't have my bathing suit. You should have your bathing suit on all the time or your wetsuit on all the time and your surfboard and ready for the next dose of fear. Basically, it's there. And if we can face it, be generous with it we can become free of it and then we can have this loving-kindness and way of loving-kindness then the fear is not even gonna come up anymore when it's really when you really love all beings and you're tuned into that station and you're not gonna be afraid in the first place you're gonna go in your backyard surveyors Wow hi sweetie can I get you some cookies my baby's My babies have taken the form of surveyors. Oh, wonderful. Buddha looks out the back window and says, surveyors, disciples, cookies, gold, love, here.

[62:17]

But if you're not tuned in that station and you see the people, then you get frightened. And then your loving kindness like goes away, you know. get hard to find. So that's a good example, and I appreciate you telling us. Michael? There's one thing that I seem to be confused about, and that's a great producer who talks about non-duality. Yeah. And I think you started off just by saying sentient and non-sentient beings. And I I want to sound clear as to why that distinction is made. It seems that there's many examples of kindness, loving-kindness, thoughts and speech, how they can affect even crystal, water crystal, and plants, certainly, and animals. I'm not sure why that distinction is used.

[63:19]

It seems to carry on a dualistic type of thinking. But yet it seems that lots of the work is to... Well, nonduality doesn't mean that Buddhas and sentient beings... Buddhas are also sentient beings. Doesn't mean that Buddhas... I mean, they're not sentient beings, but they're alive. We don't say that Buddhas are exactly the same as sentient beings. It's just that they're not separate and they have the same nature. The nature of Buddhas is Buddha nature. The nature of sentient beings is Buddha nature. The nature of not-insentient beings is also Buddha nature. They all have the same nature. But sentient beings means those living beings who have not realized their Buddha nature. They don't understand their Buddha nature and they think they're separate from Buddhas or from other people. Non-living beings don't think Rocks don't think, as far as we know. They don't think that they're the same as people or separate from people.

[64:25]

So they don't suffer in the same way. However, there's no duality between non-sentient beings and sentient beings. They're not dual. They're not separate. We're a wonderful, magical concoction of non-sentient beings. Us sentient beings are built up from non-sentient beings. We're totally inseparable from non-sentient beings. You can't get us away from insentient beings, us sentient beings, or Buddhas. So it's not that everything's the same, it's just that all the different things are not really, are not separate at all. Boundaries are only set up by the mind of sentient beings. Rocks don't set up boundaries between themselves and other rocks or between themselves and sentient beings, but sentient beings have imagination and they imagine that they're separate from other sentient beings, and they imagine that they're separate from Buddhas, and they imagine they're separate from rocks, but rocks don't.

[65:30]

Rocks are not exactly right, it's just that they don't have an imagination. But they don't necessarily understand non-duality either, whereas Buddhas do. So we're just trying to recognize that there is this interplay between those who understand and those who don't, and they play together. Those who understand and understand that they're playing, those who don't understand have glimmers that they're playing. We have glimmers that we're playing with the Buddhas. We have some glimmering of that, but we don't understand it fully yet. And the Buddhas do understand it, plus they also understand that all beings, surveyors and other forms of surprising beings like our dearest people who have changed recently, selfish grandchildren. All these beings are inseparable from us. This is what this practice is to try to help us realize, really understand, and then act that way.

[66:35]

So we would continue that practice with non-sentient beings? We'll practice it with non-sentient beings, too. Yeah. I guess I hear you saying from person to person to person. I kind of think, when you were talking about I wouldn't kill someone, sometimes I think some of the challenges, can't kill the planet. Is that a real possibility of human beings? Well, I'm not sure if the planet is a living being or not. Some people say that, you know, the Gaia hypothesis is that the whole planet is a living being. So, I don't know about that, but it doesn't mean that because I kindly regard every living being, if I try to kindly regard every living being, it doesn't mean I don't kindly regard rocks. It's just that, because people can get angry at rocks too, right? And people can talk to rocks, too, right? But it doesn't seem to be a big problem that people get angry at rocks, but I guess maybe it is a big problem, because they might get angry at rocks and then decide to blow up a mountainside or something, which might kill a bunch of sentient beings, although the rocks might not mind.

[67:47]

So I don't think it makes much sense that you would that you'd hate rocks and be kind to living beings. I think living beings are, you know, we're really afraid of living beings. They're the ones that frighten us the most. Those are the ones we most feel afraid of being separated from. Those are the ones who actually it's easiest for us to feel dear about. I mean, you know, it's part of, I mean, parents do not love rocks as much as they love their kids, generally speaking. Non-parents might like rocks more than they like other kids, other people's kids. But I don't know too many parents that... When I see my children, I see rocks. You know, that's what the material they're made from, their bones, yeah. Their skin and the tail is all from planet. Right. Right, but I don't know if you like their bones as much as you like the children.

[68:54]

Like, if you're... I don't know if you like... Well, some people do, you know. If they trim their children's fingernails, you know, and they have these fingernail clippings. Some people like the fingernail clippings as much as the kid. But I don't think so. I just... That was a joke. But some people like their kids so much that they save their children's finger clippings. A lot of people save their children's teeth, right? Baby teeth. Or save a lock of their children's hair. Or save clippings of their children's sports events. But I think it's... We don't... I think maybe you're different, but... I think most people do have a little preference there. Well, I'm not saying that I don't love my children any less than I would say I love the planet.

[70:01]

You don't love your children less than the planet. I wouldn't necessarily say that I could say that I love my children more than I would love the planet for giving them life to be here. Yeah, I understand that when we say the planet, well, it gives them life, but still, do you have similar feelings for rocks that you do for your children? Well, not a specific rock, but perhaps the planet in its entirety to be able to rise, to have life come right up from it. Yeah, but when you say the planet, you're talking about all the people, too. Yeah. Also, right? Yeah. Yeah, but I'm just talking about... But the planet with all the people is... Then you're talking about all the sentient beings. Would you feel the same about an asteroid that has nothing living on it as you do about the Earth? Would you feel similar about a rock in space that, you know, billions of miles from the Earth? Would you feel as much adoration and warm feelings for that rock out there as you do for the Earth full of all the deer and redwoods and people?

[71:09]

Do you feel the same? If you do, that's fine. So, you know, I'm not faulting you if you do. I'm just surprised that you would. It's just kind of a surprising causation that would lead to that. But somebody could. Somebody, like, really, they're a professional asteroid scientist and they're really interested in asteroids and they actually like asteroids as much as people. Maybe. It's possible. But I would guess that that person didn't like people very much. Just guess it. But anyway, regardless, everything's inseparable. So whatever your feelings, your feelings are inseparable from the other people's feelings and all that. That's what I would say. That's the non-duality. It's inseparability. Nothing's independent of anything else. But I feel like you're making a case for feeling the same way about everything.

[72:13]

And that, I don't know if that's the same as non-duality. That's more like just a kind of amazing, amazing feelings that they would be the same for everything. And I would be open to that possibility. I've never heard of such a thing before, but maybe it's so in your case. I don't think so, but maybe it's so. So don't eat too much at Thanksgiving, otherwise you might get sick. Respect the food. Yes, Lynn? Well, you said last time that we might ask a question about the unusual time that we're living in at the end of class, you mentioned. Yes. I really am at a loss as to what to ask, but I was wondering what you would say about the unusual time that we're living in and on the leadership that we are living under.

[73:25]

I sort of referenced earlier Would you ask that question earlier in the class next time? Because we've gone, it looks like, seven minutes beyond the time. So I think people probably, some people probably would like to go. Can you remember the question and ask it a little earlier? Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[73:51]

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