Sometimes people speak of the goal of Buddhism as liberation. But I would say that the goal is a liberation whose essence is compassion or emptiness and emptiness whose essence is compassion or the relinquishment of all views and in that relinquishment is compassion. So there's relinquishment of views and then there's appropriate responding. There isn't just freedom.

[01:01]

There isn't just nirvana. There is enlightenment and then there's responding. So the enlightened one's life is the life of responding. And the enlightened one has relinquished all views. And then In responding to beings, the enlightened one may cough up a few views. But this is just to be helpful. So, may we relinquish all views and enter into the activity of appropriate response. Now, we may not have completely let go of all views, and to that extent we're a little bit afraid still.

[02:12]

We have a little bit of fear if we're holding on to anything. And yet, I think, I hope that we can safely experiment with trying to come and meet and interact intimately. And if fear comes up, to be intimate with that too. Perhaps we're still holding on to some belief in our independent existence. Perhaps we still, consciously or unconsciously, are holding on to our separate existence from others. And that may show up in some stiffness or some unskillfulness or some fear.

[03:19]

But this is part of the process, I think, to become even more familiar with these dispositions, these dispositions, these awkwardnesses that arise based on this, this ignorance. Wang Bo says that Manjushri is the principle of emptiness, the principle of unhindered relinquishment of all views. Samantabhadra is a practice

[04:29]

is unlimited responding. So these two bodhisattvas are in our body and mind, are our attendants to our enlightened nature. And I thought that it was interesting the way the Chinese people transliterated Manjushri's name, they finally wound up with a transliteration of it, which means they used Chinese characters to make a sound like Manjushri. With Samantabhadra, they didn't translate Samantabhadra, they translated it. They didn't transliterate it, they translated it. So, the way they say Manjushri is Wonsho. And in Japanese, it sounds even more like Manjushri, Monju.

[05:37]

And Wonsho, the characters they use to make that sound sort of like Manjushri, the first character, one, means literature or the Chinese classics. And Chinese are big on respecting precedent, respecting the classics. So the first part of Manjushri's name is the classics. All the smart things that ever happened before. All the good responses that people have made before. the classical good responses, the classical ways of being helpful maybe. The second part, the word show means to kill or exterminate.

[06:41]

And so a new meaning of that sword in her hands. Manjushri doesn't kill beings. Manjushri kills precedent, kills all the good practices you ever did before, kills all the good responses, clears all the good teachings, relinquishes all the good stuff, and leaves you with no good views and no bad views. So now you're ready for samantabhadra. But the way they translate samantabhadra is a translation. And the way they translate it is pu-shen. Pu means universal or unlimited. And shen means good or virtue or virtuoso or...

[07:47]

Anyway, talent, being talented. Universal skill, universal talent, universal correct, appropriate responding. So these two together. One is forget about everything you know about Zen. Forget about what you learned about Buddhism. If there are any teachings that happened in this practice period that you liked, forget them. And if there's any teachings you didn't like, forget them. If there's any practices you found helpful, forget them. Let them go. And enter the merciful ocean of Buddha's appropriate response. If anybody wants me to explain how it all, everything works together and makes sense, I'll do that someday.

[09:07]

It'll be a long class. But, you know, it all hangs together in perfect harmony and inner penetration. But it's a big book. It's called the Avatamsaka Sutra. In the meantime, let's do this together, okay? Now people are coming to Dzogchen and they have questions, but they're saving them. I don't know what they're saving them for. One other thing I wanted to mention was Yesterday, someone asked me about being rude and mocking people.

[10:12]

And then today, someone asked me if I was insulted. And remember that the word challenge, the root meaning of the word challenge is to insult. So it isn't that I want to be insulted. or I want to be challenged, but that what attracted me to Zen was the skillful response to being insulted and the skillful response to being praised. So, let's see if we can respond skillfully if there is ever any insult happening. Let's see if we can respond skillfully. If there is a challenge, let's see if we can respond appropriately to the challenge. How are you feeling?

[11:55]

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You have a heart? Yeah. What's your name? Reb. Short for rebel? Short for rebel. What's your name? Eleanor. Eleanor. Do you know what that means? Little Einar. That's right. Who told you that? You did. What else have you told me? Do you want me to tell you the other things I told you?

[12:58]

Oh, dear. Yes, dear. I think I remember. You think you remember? The other things. Wonderful. What's happening now? Not much. Not much? No. Okay. See you later. Okay. The defining feature needs a lack of definition.

[14:17]

Timothy Ferris said that about black holes. emptiness in students and teachers. And the last line of chapter 18 that we were reading, it says, if the fully enlightened ones do not appear, if there are any disciples, the self-enlightened ones are The wisdom proceeds without annihilation. Duggan says, when he came back from... Too long.

[15:31]

Too long. It's in the body. Why do you need to teach it? I don't answer why questions. Do you need to teach it? Is it just as good? Is what? Is it just as freeing and enabling and compassionate? Is what? For a student to sit on their own? Not if I'm around. You came with Donna? No. Partner. Make me a partner. How do you do that? No, how do you do that? You say. You're corrected. What? You say, and then you're corrected, and then you try again. Is that the way to do it? Is that the way a student does it? Yeah.

[16:35]

Right. Yeah. You don't want to? I don't mind coming closer. You don't mind closer? Well, say it louder then. Speak loud. Could you speak loudly? That's what they want. They want to hear you. How's your heart doing? My heart is kind of quiet. It's working on. But it's not like giving me any unusual signals.

[17:37]

I've been thinking about what I would say to you if I thought this was the last time I would talk to you. Could you hear that? What? They could hear you. No? What would he say to me if it was the last time he was going to talk to me? Are you going to tell us? Are you going to tell me? You could save us if he could hear you. Doesn't care. If you can't hear me, I'll repeat it. What? They don't go up to concentrate with this group of people. I don't know. At any rate, I've told you this before, but I'd just like you to remember it.

[19:07]

And part of that is that you are my true teacher and that I am a true student. And no matter what happens, that's it. I'm not agreeing to remember the first part. Okay? You don't have to. But I will agree to remember the second part. You think there's another true teacher coming? Do I? No. I just don't want to remember that part. I want to remember the other part. I want to remember that you're the true student. I want to remember that you're all students in the universe. That's what I want to remember. I don't need to remember that I'm your true teacher. I don't need to remember that. You do, not me.

[20:17]

So you remember that part, I'll remember the other part, okay? And we'll put the two together. If we can remember to put them together. I don't know who's going to remember that part. Okay. So let's remember to meet and put those two parts together on a regular basis. Does that sound like a partnership? Huh? Yeah. Could you hear what happened? No. He'll repeat it. All right. It's a great haircut.

[21:24]

It's just the beginning. So, studying dependent colorizing, there's seeing that something comes into existence because of a certain condition. If the condition is not present, it doesn't come into existence. From that, is it correct to say that if something comes into existence, is born, then it's already gone? By virtue of its existing because of conditions, then it's already non-existent? I don't think so. You don't think so? Can you explain this? The word non-existent, To me, it doesn't make sense to say if something comes into existence, it's already non-existent.

[22:31]

So if something comes into existence, what is it? It's conditioned? If something is conditioned, it depends on something. And therefore... It has no independent existence. So its independent existence is non-existent. Its independent existence is actually non-existent. There is no independent existence. But there is a dependent existence. So when that arises, there is a dependent existence which has no independence. So its independence is non-existent. So it's going too much to the extreme of nihilism to say that it's non-existent.

[23:38]

I'm working with when thoughts arise. When they arise, there's all this noise. Seems like there's some difficulty finding the right adjustment. Is the noise different from the thoughts? Or is it just more thoughts? More thoughts. Okay. It's difficult to find the right adjustment in the midst of all these thoughts? Yeah. Right adjustment. Yeah. So that's why we want to relinquish them as soon as they arise. That's the right adjustment. And if it's not relinquished, it goes on? If it's not relinquished, then something holds, something gets tense, starts to get frozen. Mm-hmm. And then there's ill, then there's suffering.

[24:46]

Thank you. You're welcome. Can I stand? Can I use the microphone? I formed a view yesterday that I wanted to check out with you. because I think it's a pretty screwy view. The view was, if you understand dependent core arising, then your conduct is beyond reproach. So, yeah, you had that idea.

[26:07]

Do you want me to say something about it? Here's an idea. If one understands, in the midst of the understanding of dependent colorizing, the thorough understanding of that, which means that you understand emptiness, and the thorough understanding of that is that emptiness also is a conventional designation. If you understand that, that's the middle way. In the middle way, your conduct will no longer be your conduct, but will be your dependently co-arisen conduct. And that conduct will be beyond reproach. Was that kind of like your idea? Kind of like my idea, just in the conventional world, it just doesn't seem like it holds.

[27:11]

Well, people still can reproach you. People can still say, you know, whatever. They can say you're a reproachable person. But your behavior actually, your conduct will actually be beyond reproach and it won't even be yours. It will be helpful. 100% helpful 100% of the time that it's like that. But people may reproach it. I mean, people even reproach the Buddha, Shakyamuni. People may insult you. But the insult will just be fuel for your helping them. Because the insult will go into the furnace of dependent core arising and produce more realization of emptiness and more conduct based on that understanding. So you're... You know, you will actually... behave appropriately when you understand dependent core rising. Or I should say, there will be correct responding.

[28:15]

There will be, you know, unassailable virtue coming out of that dependent on that understanding. But part of the way that beings test Buddhas is by insulting them. Just to see, how will they handle this? This insult. So the reproaches that you may receive don't mean that your behavior is reproachable. It just is another opportunity for you to see if non-reproachable behavior can arise in the middle of an ocean of reproaches. So I don't think your idea was screwy, but I also don't think either one of us should hold on to it. So I agree with your idea, but I think we should both forget it now. I have another question. You do? You want the microphone back? I do. Okay, my second question is, what did you mean when you said, I don't want to take care of your kids, or I don't want to babysit your kids?

[29:25]

I was pretty lost on that one. I mean, if you have some kids, right, and you say to me, would you come and babysit? I'm saying basically I don't want to babysit. That's honestly what you mean. That's honestly what I meant. I do not want to spend my time taking care of little babies, changing diapers and stuff. I'll do it a little. I mean, once in a while, you know, like on your birthday or something. But I'm not... Like, for example, my daughter has a baby now. But I'm not, like, moving in and changing the diapers of the little baby. It's her baby. I'm not going to, you know... I'll babysit once in a while, you know. But basically, I'm not going to babysit. I'm not going to be her babysitter. That's what I mean. Why would you tell us that? Because some of you are thinking of having babies.

[30:28]

And... Because I'm not going to be your babysitter. If you have babies, you're going to be doing the babysitting and I'm going to be like talking to people, you know, in the Zendo and stuff. So we're not going to see each other much. That's what I mean. So if you make the decision to have babies, I'm saying, you know, that may cause us to not have much time together because I'm not actually going to spend my life doing that. I already did quite a few diapers. That was fine. That's the way it worked out for me to do. I have no problem with shit or diapers. I just don't plan, unless everybody says that's what they want me to do. I don't plan to be spending hundreds of hours changing diapers. with this, you know, short-term body here. I meant it literally. And the reason is because some people here are thinking of having babies, and they might want me to come over, you know, and be around all the time, and I'm saying I'm not going to do it. Okay?

[31:33]

Thanks for the question. When he says my second question, it'll sound like a quiz show, right? The magic of the microphone, it just... Do we have to? No. Well, we've been talking about relationship. It's this one. Relationship? Yeah, we have now. Can you hear him? Talk louder, you can talk louder. We've been talking about the relationship, for example, the one we have now. Yes. You pointed out not to look at it as two individuals exchanging something, but by looking at it as something being created in the middle, sort of spontaneous. Yeah. And that made me think about the gift in the Milschendt.

[32:36]

I was wondering if it was a little bit of the same thing. Exactly. It was like a gift. Right. Exactly like a gift. And my experience with relationships, since I've been thinking about this pretty intensely in the last few days, is that my relationship with other people in the world have been mostly very painful, actually. And they... They don't feel like much of a gift. I can see why they would be a gift, and they actually are, but the pain is what I think is characterizing them. And I was going to ask you how I changed that, how I can enjoy the gift instead of... Well, one way to... One way is that the relationship's a gift, but also in the process of a relationship, if we give to someone else, that can be joyful. But if there's really a self and an other and a gift, there's some pain in it.

[33:43]

So that's why it says, may all beings realize the purity of the three wheels, the emptiness of giver, receiver, and gift. The relationship's a gift, but it can be painful. It will be painful. It's a painful gift until we understand that there's no independent giver, no independent receiver, and no independent gift. That the process of giving involves these different conditions. But they're all empty of any kind of independence of each other. I understand that, but that's not the way I hear it. You say you understand it, but you don't understand it thoroughly, because if you understand it thoroughly, then there would not be pain in that relationship. So how do I get to understand it thoroughly? Even emptiness, how can we see that something is empty?

[34:45]

I don't even understand that. Because if it's empty, how can we see it? There is nothing, so we can't see. We have to see it by... Well, like, for example, if you give me something, as you give it, let go of the idea that you're the giver. Let go of that view that you're giving me something. Just let go of it while you give it. Notice that you think that way. Notice that you think that the gift is separate from you, and I'm separate from you. Notice those things and let go of them. That's how to practice emptiness as you practice giving. Is that compassion? To mean to be able to to be like in a relationship even with the suffering, to be with that suffering and accept that And by accepting the suffering of the relationship, settle into the place where you can let go of the view which is at the core of the suffering.

[35:48]

And every time you give in their suffering, in the giving, have the compassion to be there and not try to be someplace else. And feel the pain in the giving. Even while there's joy in the giving, feel that there's pain because there's still maybe some... Grasping there. Yeah, a lot. Yeah. So then we work at letting go of that grasping in our relationship. When we give something, notice the grasping and try to relinquish the view that I'm giving you something. Try to relinquish the view that you're talking to somebody, and that you're somebody who independent of me. So again, that takes you... Can you feel that view? Can you feel the view that you think you're independent of me? That's all I see. Yeah. So by becoming intimate with that view, you can let go of it.

[36:53]

Intimacy with that view that you're separate from me releases it. But it's painful to be close to that view. And the compassion involves the patience of being with that view. But also the joy of being with that view because we understand that being close to that view is the process of releasing it, of relinquishing that view. Hi. Hi. So, I didn't come with a question. I came with a request. A request?

[37:55]

Yes. My request is, please live out the full span of your life and don't die an untimely death. Request granted. Thank you. I don't think I need it. Am I loud enough? No. Rev, I wish you a long, healthy, and happy life and continue your teaching. And I want to say that my father, after his heart attack, had a reading of the will. And we discovered what a generous fellow he was.

[38:55]

We all got to say what a great guy he was. And 15 years later, when he died of cancer, he changed the will. So I just want to say it's not over until it's over. And I also want to express, I think, you know, my feeling, and I can't speak for Elka, but when I heard her speak yesterday, I didn't feel for myself that it was coming from an insult. It seemed coming from an expression of hurt. So I'm sure Elka can better express for herself, but I think she was genuinely trying to come from her heart. Do you think I suggested that she was insulting me? It sounded that way to me today. Do other people think I said that? Someone asked me if I was insulted yesterday. Well, I'm very happy then. Thank you. This may be the first and last and only time I am going to speak to you in this way.

[40:19]

And I want to tell you how your teachings have affected me. I don't have a question specifically. This is my second practice period with you. The first practice period was at Green Gulch in January, about three, four years ago. And at the very first dokusan I had with you, I felt a very deep connection and resonance with what you were saying. And ever since that time, I have thought of you as my informal teacher. And I have felt that I have a partnership with you. And during this practice period,

[41:24]

I have felt exactly the same way, that there is something in me that is very deep, probably the deepest part of me that resonates with the way you are teaching. And whereas I'm very happy to go back to my teacher and my community, I also like to continue to practice with you. And I hope to see you at Green Gulch next fall. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm going to try without the microphone. Can people hear me? Yes. I want to ask, I'm not thinking about having any babies right now, but I keep wondering if there's some difference that don't mothers and fathers need these home-leaving practices too?

[42:42]

When you decide to stay home and practice the way, is it somehow different? Everybody, all bodhisattvas, need to, you know, leave home in their hearts. All bodhisattvas need to, you know, let go of attachments to their own views. That's really what leaving home's about. All bodhisattvas need to enter into relationships that will promote and give them opportunities to respond appropriately. The reason I heard when you spoke at the beginning of the session, something that made me think that you were saying that I... somehow if you decide to leave home and shave your head and do that process, that it's somehow... that's what you're interested in teaching about, like not the lies for staying home and having babies?

[44:00]

Is that... or is it just that one thing you'll be devoting all your time to raising children and one thing... No, I'm just saying that if a person wants to relate to me, I'm not saying I'm going to meet them, you know, I'm not agreeing to meet them, you know, in their house. I'm not agreeing to go to their house and meet them. So, if they want a relationship with me, then I'm saying, I'm going to meet you in certain places and if you don't want to go there, then I'm not agreeing to go to these other places. And the question is, do you feel that the place you are you're getting enough support to do your practice of leaving home, of relinquishing your views. And if you don't, then that's a question mark in your life. It's possible that some people would shave their heads and still not leave home, but if they're in the same place I am, then I can

[45:07]

Ask them what's going on, because they're there. I'm in the same place. But if they're up, you know, in some other place where I don't see them, then what can I say? I don't see them. And the question is, who does? Do they have a support there to stimulate and... the emptiness and letting go. It seems like staying home is somehow not conducive to that, or that being a layperson is somehow less than becoming reduced. What's really important is that you relinquish your views. that you give up your privacy. And if you can stay, if you can go enter a monastery and give up your views and give up your attachments, good.

[46:18]

If you can do it at home, good. If you can't do it at home, not good. If you can't do it in a monastery, not good. That's what I'm saying. That sounds... Thank you. I'll try without. If I hear complaints, I'll change my mind. Okay. So I'd like to Very nervous. That's interesting to me. I'd like to express some views. I've been carrying this machine. And what I... The gifts they've brought.

[47:19]

And then here you see what you think. Because I kind of don't want to put them down. Okay. Could you hear her? So... One is a formula that I worked out on behalf of Eleanor, maybe not our Eleanor, but some Eleanor, a shorter version of the Kacchiana, ceasing, arising, the whole chain. One is ignorance. From one comes two, self-cherishing. And from two comes many karma. And so I've been remembering this sasin and rather frequently noting self-cherishing, self-cherishing.

[48:25]

And many times things just drop away because I note that. Good. It doesn't seem like it quite goes the whole way, but it's dead. So I seem unwilling to kind of release that at the moment. You're unwilling to release what? That theory, thought, practice. You're unwilling to release that formula? Yeah. Well, that's okay. But it'll work better if you release it. I think, eventually. Eventually. If you're not... Maybe not today. Yeah, but I'm just saying that it'll be more useful if you don't have to consciously carry it around. So as it becomes more and more part of you, you can let go of it and it'll just be spontaneously come up that you'll think, ignorance, self-cherishing, many. You won't have to think that anymore to see that.

[49:30]

So the Buddha doesn't necessarily have to keep remembering the formula of dependent co-arising. And Buddha had many different formulas, but he wasn't carrying any of them around. They were just, every moment, ignorance and so on would present itself. So at first you may find it useful to kind of hold onto this, but it'll be eventually more effective to let go of that too. and then see if it's true. So now it seems to help you see the truth, but you won't necessarily have to use it to see the truth anymore. The truth will show itself to you in that form. So maybe this answer is going to fit with the other. Okay. So I've been contemplating Nanchuan's instruction, which was, it's in Nanchuan's painting, people these days see this flower as though in a dream.

[50:50]

So I've been working and dream, waking, dream, waking, to find the middle of what's real. As a way, as an instruction to find the middle? You need to stay awake. That's quite a leap, staying awake. And how is that going? Remembering, remembering, forgetting, forgetting, remembering, forgetting, remembering. When remembering, how is it? No elaboration. When there's no elaboration, how is it? No mirror. No mirror? No mirror.

[51:56]

When there's no mirror, how is it? A laugh. You'll laugh? I'll laugh. Okay, go ahead. Wow. I don't think I'll need that. Without my glasses, I have to get closer so I can see you well. Can you see me well? Very well, with your sparkling eyes. Have you lost weight? I've lost weight. I was hoping that I would have a chance to publicly thank you.

[52:59]

And lo and behold, yesterday you provided the opportunity. And that's very much the way things have gone with us for the two years that I've worked with you. It's like there's this magical quality of synchronicity that frequently happens. Ten years ago when I left the monastery, a process began. And since I've been working with you, it's accelerated and really come to a culminating point. And I want to thank you for all that you've given me and all that you've been for me and just you being you. So I want to give you something. Where is it? I have it. It's here somewhere. There it is. No. This is very precious to me, and I can feel the grasping of not wanting to give it away. But you've been so wonderful to me.

[54:03]

I want to give you something that is precious that I don't want to give away. This was given to me by a very dear friend eight years ago for Christmas, and... As you can see, it's a rock from the monkey temple in India. And on one side is carved in Tibetan, Om Mani Padme Hum. And on the other side is carved a representation of Buddha's eyes. And it's precious also because seven years ago it was blessed by Mother Mira. And she's the woman... I don't know if you remembered, but I suffered from ulcerative colitis for 22 years. And in one instant, she appeared to me out of thin air, and the colitis at that very moment stopped. I could feel I was no longer bleeding, and I haven't had any trouble since. So my hope and prayer is that I give that to you out of love, just that it was given to me out of love. And I'm also hoping that and praying that some of her energy that healed me can surround your heart and heal it.

[55:04]

Um... You're very wonderful. Thank you so much. Do you have any attachment to this? No, it's yours. No clinging left on it? Don't think so. Full of joy? Oh, very full. Okay. May I take this opportunity to be intimate with my fear? May you take this opportunity to be intimate with your fear. I think I just relinquished a view or two. Great. When you were talking about theater sport, I thought, oh, maybe, oh, when he was talking about theater sport, I got kind of upset because I thought, wow, I'm not a theater sport kind of person.

[56:19]

Can you hear her? So maybe Zen's not good practice for me because even in private dokasan, I feel like I might not be good at theater sport, but I think I'll keep trying. And I had another view, which was that I didn't like to do things that I wasn't good at, but I keep coming back to Dokusa. Thank you. Let's see. Kitchen's leaving now, so maybe just... How many people are back there? Just one? Three? Oh, well. Just one more, and then we'll do it again tomorrow, okay? Oh, maybe, maybe... You guys can stay. It's okay. No, I changed my mangle. I'm in control here, aren't I?

[57:44]

That's right. I didn't expect you to say that. I'm in control. You're the one who's in control. And others are... Under your control. No, they're not. Not? No. They're trying to be in control, too, and that's why they irritate me. Whatever is under my control is mine. And whatever isn't under my control isn't mine. And it's threatening and bugs me. When you say we should become more familiar with the view

[59:06]

of our inherently existing self, do you mean we're supposed to become more familiar with the characteristics of the view or the characteristics we impute to this self? More in a second. Try to, like, you're just telling me... You told me about the view just now, but you told me about what you saw, namely this eye that's in control or this eye that would like to be in control. You told me about something you're aware of or you think about. Okay. You did tell me about your view, but you more told me about what the view is about. But that's the right course. Do I mean to ask myself, what do I really believe? There's a view of the self, but we want to actually look, what is the self that you're talking about? That's usually more effective to look at that and see what that looks like or what that should look like.

[60:07]

If something was in control of something, what would it look like? What would something in control look like? Let's see if you can see that. But I think I get stuck when you say look, because it's not manifesting as something visual to me. Can you describe it another way, what we're trying to do here in becoming more familiar with this non-existent self, but the self I believe in? Don't let it control you. I think... Excuse me. I feel too much like we're on a talk show.

[61:21]

I don't think I thoroughly understand anything. Will I ever be able to? No, you will not be able to. Will anyone? No one will be able to. Will it happen? Yes, it will. When does the next Nirvana tour leave? What about this one? It's pretty great. What's great about it? Please take care of it. Venerable Rebel,

[62:49]

Are you afraid to die? I do not have access to fear of dying. If I'm afraid of dying, I'm not aware of it. I'm a little bit susceptible. to being afraid of dying, in the sense that I can feel the possibility of slipping into thinking of the next moment. But I usually don't, and then I'm not afraid. But if I did think of the next moment, I could become afraid just like anybody else who thinks of the next moment.

[64:01]

And thinks that they'll be around the next moment. Or thinks that they might not be around the next moment. What is the medicine you had for yesterday? You had medicine. Medicine? Yesterday, yeah. The medicine is a beta blocker, which the cardiologist asked me to take, so I do it for the cardiologist.

[64:35]

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