I could discuss with you this plaque for quite a while. At the top it says, License or Permission or Approval. And then it says, Sanzen Dojo. And sanzen, as I told you before, means practicing Zen. And dojo literally means a place for the way. So the character dou or dao in Chinese, it means like the Buddha way or the middle way, but dao also means enlightenment. So this character, this compound dojo, which is used for this building or this monastery, but also for Aikido, places of practice, and Judo places of practice, and so on. Actually, it's a compound that's used to translate Bodhimanda, or Bodhimandala.

[01:07]

The mandala, the sacred place for practicing and realizing enlightenment. The place where Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree is Bodhimanda. So this is a bodhimanda, a licensed bodhimanda for practicing Zen, which means a licensed bodhimanda for dropping off body and mind. And then the seal of the Soto, the orders of Soto Zen in Japan is on the bottom. So in one sense it seems a little funny that he needed a license to drop off body and mind. or that you need the approval of the headquarters. I don't think they mean it that way. I think what this is for is that if someone is traveling around and they want to know, is this a place that has anybody else's approval for offering Zen practice other than just the people saying that they're offering it, like at a doctor's office,

[02:15]

They have those diplomas saying . So that's part of the meaning of this is that we're approved by some organization in Japan. We're not just, I don't know what, they trust us somewhat. And so other people maybe can trust the practice here somewhat. I could go into more detail about that, but I feel like to go back to the sutra and begin with an apology that, you know, yesterday when I was reading Buddha's introduction of the lack of own being in terms of character and lack of own being in terms of production, I said, well, it would be reasonable that he would go then, and then after that, introduce a lack of own being, ultimate lack of own being, of thoroughly established character.

[03:26]

And actually, he did. I just somehow, when I put these papers in the folder, I mixed up two pages, and I kept looking at it, but it just seemed to make sense the way it was, except for that point. But actually, introducing the uh... lack of own being in terms of production and then also pointing out that the other dependent character is not the ultimate lack of production in terms of production is not the ultimate and just to make that point that it's not the ultimate, it's called an ultimate lack of own being, in the sense that it lacks being the ultimate lack of own being. Then he goes on to talk about the ultimate lack of own being. And then those examples of the sky flower and so on.

[04:37]

And then he says that thinking of a lack of own being or thinking about how the marks of things have no essence, I taught. all phenomena are unproduced, unceasing, and so on. And then, thinking of suchness, thinking of an ultimate lack of own being, the selflessness of phenomena, I taught all phenomena are unproduced, unceasing, coerced upon this dark natural state of nirvana. Now, usually we would think that when Buddha, what we thought before this siddha was introduced, we thought if somebody was saying, well, what were you thinking of when you taught all dharmas are unproduced, unceasing, creusted from the start in natural state of nirvana, what were you thinking about?

[06:07]

We would expect Buddha to say, well, I was thinking of the ultimate. I was thinking of the lack of own being and an ultimate lack of one being, the selflessness of phenomena. That's what we would have experienced, right? Does that make sense? No? That didn't register, Charlie? It did? No, it doesn't. Does that make sense? That's what I would have thought before reading this sutra, right? Or hearing about it. And in fact, he was thinking about it. when he taught that. Right? Does that make sense? He was thinking about the ultimate when he taught all phenomena without own being and so on. But sometimes he was thinking about these other kinds of lack of own being when he taught that too.

[07:09]

And sometimes he was thinking of all three simultaneously. And I keep thinking in the text, but I just wanted to say again that I would expect him then to say, thinking of a lack of own being in terms of production, thinking of how there's no essence to dependent core arising, I taught all dhammas. But he doesn't say that. He didn't say, thinking of a production lack of own being, I taught all phenomena are unproduced, unceasing, quiescent from the start, and so on and so forth. Did you notice that before, some of you? So it just, he left it out. No. Again, just like thinking about this license, we could go into great detail about how come the Buddha didn't say, thinking about a production lack of home bank, thinking about the other dependent I taught, all phenomena are unceasing and so on.

[08:21]

But he didn't say that. So one reason why I think you didn't say it is because maybe when you're thinking about the pentacle arising and how phenomena are being in terms of self-production, you don't think, oh, all phenomena are unproduced. Try it sometime. Enter Buddha's mind, think that way, and see if you think All phenomena are unproduced. When you're thinking about dependent co-arising, do you want to tell people all phenomena are unproduced? Do you, Buddha? No, you don't want to then. It never occurs to you, just like you're into like production but no self-production. Yes, right on, yeah. But at this point, when I'm into how things are arising depending on things other than themselves, I'm not going to say things are unproduced, not me.

[09:28]

maybe later, when I'm thinking about a lack of own being in terms of character, then I'm going to think, hey, that's unproduced. That doesn't exist by way of its own character, so I'm going to tell people that's unproduced. And now I'm thinking about selflessness. Now, that does exist by way of its own character, but it's not produced. So that's why he left it out. And you heard it here at the licensed dojo. So that doesn't mean you can blindly trust what you hear here just because there's a license behind me. Believe, believe. Yes, Soto Shu. And see this big thing here? Somebody thought I was going to hit people with this. This is a big one.

[10:30]

It's a big one. But I think it paid about, well, several hundred million tons of sweat, uncountable mosquito bites, and deer fly gouges, many, many damaged toes and fingers due to the chill in the winter before we had heating. If they came here now with the heating, they might take this thing away. You can't have it. Our ancestors earned this. Okay, and then I also read yesterday the part of the sutra where they're talking about Buddhists in a strange, convoluted way.

[11:50]

I don't teach these three kinds of lack of own being to people who actually understand something about, you know, these characters. I teach it to people who get this stuff all confused. That's why I teach it. I don't teach it to people who don't confuse... the imputational with the other dependent and the thoroughly established character. And then he talks about what happens to these people that he teaches to before they get taught. Remember that horror story about how they start to believe they strongly adhere to the imputational as being, they strongly adhere to their fantasies, ...applying to dependent existence and then they get involved in conventional designations which proliferate conventional designations which makes us prone again to seeing things that way and pretty soon we're pretty much stuck in a cycle of affliction.

[12:55]

Remember that part? We don't need to go over that. Well, if you want to, that's in there. You can read about how it all works. So he teaches people that do not understand and that get kind of all bound up in conventional designations. And they're like tied into them, they can't get out of them. They believe the appearance of things which is false and they get all tied up in continuing to believe that. So then he teaches these different kinds of lack of own being. And the Buddha starts with a lack of own being in terms of production. And I've gone over this with you before, right?

[14:04]

So basically this is the basic practice, is to meditate on the teaching that things are dependent, core risings. To be mindful of that teaching all day long, as much as possible. Understand that teaching, listen to that teaching, understand that teaching about everything you meet. And then you start to become disenchanted and disillusioned about that impermanent co-arisen things will be the things which will make you happy. When you don't remember that things are dependent co-arising, you think things will make you happy. Or things will make you unhappy. But things don't make you happy anymore. don't make you unhappy. They're just unstable, impermanent, things that aren't worthy of confidence.

[15:11]

Happy is to understand that and then relate to them in the appropriate way. Relating to impermanent phenomena appropriately is what brings happiness. And so by listening to the teaching, people start to understand the nature starts to sink in. The teaching of causation, of dependent core arising, starts to sink into the meditator. And their attitude towards everything they see starts to be transformed And in that transformation, they stop treating impermanent things inappropriately. They stop being greedy about impermanent things, for example. So they give up wrongdoing and they give up virtue.

[16:21]

and and then it says all this great stuff happens in addition to that and basically they they uh you know they they accumulate they complete it it says they complete the human merit that's complete but then later as you know it says they don't complete it but anyway they make a huge progress in developing merit and wisdom by relating to things quite appropriately in the context of them being impermanent. Whereas you see various things and you see them as and you understand them as impermanent and therefore you do not get excessively involved and you relate to them skillfully. This person who is really you remember that this is an impermanent niceness, and you say, thank you very much, but you don't try to grasp them and keep them there being nice to you and try to kill anybody who takes this nice person away from you, including wants to get away and go spend time with somebody else and give their niceness to somebody else.

[17:46]

You know that that's going to happen pretty soon with these nice people. You know they're going to go away and be with somebody else pretty soon because they're dependent co-risings. They're not under your control. So when they say, bye-bye, no more nice person around you, see you later, you say, hey, great, thanks for visiting. And if they're monsters and they come, you also don't try to push them away so hard because you know that monsters don't make you unhappy. it's relating to monsters inappropriately that makes you unhappy. And inappropriate ways to relate to monsters are try to control monsters, try to get away from monsters, try to hide from monsters, try to kill monsters. These are inappropriate things to do with unstable things. So you start relating to monsters skillfully and maestros and majesties and everything you relate to

[18:50]

appropriately, and then you're happy, virtuous, merit-generating, wise person. But not completely. You get free of afflictions, but not completely. The reason is you have not yet understood the more profound aspects of these dependently co-arisen phenomena. Therefore, the Buddha teaches further the other two. Yes? Can you talk about how that functions for you when you look at your wife or your grandson? My grandson? Or your wife? Or my wife? Well, my grandson. So I look at him, and there he is. This is kind of like, generally speaking, Mr. Happy Camper, you know. Hi, Granddaddy, blah, blah, you know, just full of energy and life, just like a very cheerful creature, you know. But he's often that way.

[19:53]

So I practice remembering this is a dependent core rising. When the dependent core rising raises his chubby little hand up, I often take a hold of it and walk with him. But when he doesn't want to hold my hand and hates me for some reason, like interfering with his waterworks, He was washing some trucks in the sink over here recently. You know, somebody, I guess it was Bev, found some nice little trucks and cars in the Goodwill and gave me to him, and I gave them to him, and I didn't seem to want to wash them in the sink. So I was like, I didn't want to use too much water, and he turned at me and looked at me with such hate. You know, like, this is like totally inappropriate, mister. Get away from this water, you know. So anyway, I'm ready for that because of this teaching.

[20:55]

So I don't like, generally speaking, I don't like to get pushed out of shape when he turns into a monster temporarily. Now, the more he's Mr. Cheerful, chubby-handed, energy ball, happy kid, you know, the more that happens, the more you can get lulled into, you know. You know, you get lulled. Happy boy, beautiful boy, lovely boy, happy boy, beautiful boy, cheerful boy, lovely boy. These words, they lull you. They lull you into a trance. I was with a Zen teacher, or former Zen teacher, and I said to him, And I was talking to him, and I was noticing the way he was talking, I was feeling kind of lulled into a trance. And I said, you know, I have to be really careful because as I listen to you sometimes, I feel myself being lulled into a trance, like you're enchanting me with your speech.

[22:02]

And he said, what's the matter with that? Enchantment's good. There are uses of it, but anyway... Then, if he switches from, you know, blah, blah, blah to da, da, da, sometimes you act inappropriately. You've already acted inappropriately because you allow yourself to be enchanted by the lull of these splendid conventional designations. Matter of fact, this particular guy you asked me about, we used to call him Splendy. Splendy is short for Splendiferous. We're referring to his splendiferous bod. Huh? Splendiferous? What does splendiferous mean? Splendid. It means like if you saw the way the king of the Holy Roman Empire would dress, probably wear splendid clothing.

[23:08]

Splendor. very, very, what do you say, pleasant, gorgeous, often appearance. Or something you could say, a splendid meal, very good meal. So there's splendid, there's splendor, like we speak of kings or even the Buddha appearing in splendor. A royal... holy things. We often say it's appearing in splendor. Okay? And then there's splendiferous. So when you see something splendor, that word splendor, you can entrench yourself with it. And then when it changes, you can totally freak out. And again, even before it changes, you can try to maintain it and do inappropriate things to protect it from any kind of change.

[24:17]

Does that make sense? The work on it is you notice that you're being lulled into a certain state, and then you listen to the teaching to balance your way of being with it so you don't go to sleep. and get rudely awakened. And then in your rude awakening, be rude yourself. And harm people and yourself because you're so irritated that somebody has disturbed your conventional world. Which is like, become all... So listening to this teaching starts to loosen the grip of conventionality upon your mind and your behavior. But not entirely. So then the Buddha teaches the next two aspects.

[25:18]

And then when you... next two aspects. Okay? hearing about the profound, the more profound aspects of dependent core arising. So part of what makes the story of dependent core arising more profound, which is the part that's not usually taught. And that reminds me, Jackie asked me to talk about something which I think if you remind me I can work it in at some point, about how A monk said to a monk, mind itself is Buddha. And then a monk said something like, how come you teach people mind itself is Buddha? And he said, I teach to people to help mind.

[26:21]

And the monk said, what do you teach? What do you teach them after they stop crying? He says, no mind, no Buddha. So Jackie asked me to make a comment on that. So if you remind me, I think I can work it into the situation. But not right now. Right now I'd like to see... You have, and maybe you can see why it came up in my mind just now, you have dependent co-arising, which has a lack of own being in terms of self-production. which you can understand, right? You can see that something that exists by its... There's something that exists depending on other things. Of course, it doesn't produce itself. By its own nature, it doesn't produce itself. So it lacks the essence. It has no essence of self-production. It's arising. You know, the way it arises has no essence. Does that make sense? Essence in the process by which you arise, for example.

[27:24]

Because you arise from things not from an essence, but you arise from things other than anywhere around the essence. Does that make sense? There isn't... You happen because of things that are other than your happening. Your happening... doesn't have an essence. So that makes sense, I think, pretty easily. But the more profound aspect of this way that we happen is there is a superimposition upon it. A superimposition. Different kinds of superimpositions, and in particular there's a superimposition of an essence upon a process that we just said doesn't have an essence. Process which doesn't have an essence in terms of self-production now looks like it has an essence.

[28:25]

It appears as though it has an essence even though it doesn't. And that in a sense is a more profound, that's more information about this essenceless process. This process which doesn't have own being because of mental fabrication. process that doesn't have own being in terms of the way it happens has a superimposition so it looks like it does have own being in terms of the way it happens it looks like it makes itself and that's in a sense more profound because you're more about things so we teach children you know no the milk does not grow in the refrigerator at the grocery store and the milk does not the milk also doesn't grow in your refrigerator our house it isn't that you just open the door of the refrigerator and the milk pops up there. We don't say that. We say, no, the milk comes not from the grocery store. Before the grocery store, it comes from the dairy. Before the dairy, it comes from the cow. Before the cow, it comes from the cow's body and the grass and the sun and previous cows and the calves had something to do with it and the farmer and the dairyman and the earth and all that stuff.

[29:43]

That's where the milk comes from. So we think, oh, now we understand dependent core rising, except that we usually don't mention to the kid, but even though we just told you this, your mind is projecting an essence on that process. You actually still think that the milk produces itself, don't you? And then they look at you like, I hate you. You better start meditating on dependent core rising yourself, otherwise you're going to hit me for looking at you like this. So it's an education to hear about this. Now we also hear that whatever phenomena we're talking about, whatever dependent core rising we're talking about has another characteristic. This other characteristic is that it actually has an absence of that superimposition.

[30:45]

That superimposition doesn't really apply. it's not established by this essence that's been projected onto it. And that's its most profound aspect in the sense that that's its final purifying aspect. So it's another purifying aspect is dependent core arising. So that's where Buddha starts by teaching dependent core arising. And that starts to purify our understanding of things that exist in our conventional world. So we're caught in convention We're mired in conventional existence, grasping and clinging and so on, full of affliction. We hear these teachings about these conventionalities which we're totally caught up in, and things start to loosen up a little bit and allow virtue to emerge and understanding to emerge and virtue to emerge and understanding to emerge. And then we hear this more... We hear, yeah, but you still haven't really stopped... and understood this superimposition, and you still haven't understood the lack of the imposition.

[31:53]

So now study those. So then when they hear those teachings, which we've gone over again and again and again in many ways, when they or you hear these teachings, then basically the rest, the complete story of liberation sets in. So now they tell this, first they tell the horror story of what happened, confused about these natures, then they tell the good things that develop from meditating on dependent core rising and the lack of own being in terms of production. And then if you hear the next two teachings, then hearing those teachings, they do not strongly adhere to their own being of the other dependent as being of the character of the own being of the imputational. So in this sutra we're being told that listening to these teachings are a way that beings can stop adhering to the own being of the other dependent as being the own being of the imputational.

[33:10]

So this is an example of a scripture saying if you meditate on the teachings in this scripture, part of the teachings of this scripture is saying that if you meditate on these teachings and listen to these teachings and meditate on these teachings and as they impact you, your mind will stop adhering as being the imputational. By using scriptures and meditating on them as described in the next chapter, this will happen. In other words, you will come to know ultimate purifying characteristic of phenomena by not strongly adhering to what's happening as being imputational. So this is familiar to you, right? It says by hearing these doctrines.

[34:27]

And so I also said that I proposed to you that the Zen teachers interact with the Zen students in such a way that students will hear these teachings without sutra. They'll hear these teachings. The teacher may not say, you are superimposing the imputational upon the other dependent, and I'm going to help you not so strongly adhere to that confusion so that you will be suchness. They don't say that, but they do something, sometimes something nonverbal, which seems to help the person, in fact, not adhere to their idea of what's going on. as being what's going on. And in that not adhering of what's going on, as being what's going on, they open to a vision of emptiness.

[35:32]

And when that happens, They become confident, when they don't adhere anymore, they become confident of the lack of own being in terms of production. They become confident that the lack of own being in terms of production does not exist as the does not exist as an ultimate lack of own being in the sense that it is the absence of own being in terms of character with respect to those phenomena. they will become confident that it's not the ultimate, in the sense that it is the absence of the imputational in those phenomena.

[37:06]

They fully realize this, they realize it as it is, and in this way their understanding not infused with conventional designations. They will ponder, think, and really understand, for in their other dependent pattern of consciousness they will not cling to imagined essences or marks. Once they have heard these teachings, they are able to truly believe the essencelessness of characteristics.

[38:12]

and ultimate essencelessness in the essencelessness of birth. When they hear these teachings, they are able to truly believe and understand in terms of characteristic in the lack of own being in terms of production. And the lack of own, the ultimate lack of own being in the other dependent, the... And then they're able to investigate these phenomena and realize them in truth. as so as not to cling to conceptualized nature in the dependent existence.

[39:26]

Therefore, because they are not bound by conventional designations, and because their understanding is free from predispositions towards convention, in this lifetime they produce the ability to understand the other. Because of a wisdom that is not permeated by language, because of an insightful wisdom not formed by language, because of a from inclinations towards language, they are able, they will be able to destroy the pattern that arises dependent upon others.

[40:44]

Because of knowledge that is not conditioned by words, not thinking in conformity with words, free from the lull of words, they are able to extinguish dependency. For a couple of days I've been trying to move from the sutra again to look at stories of how Zen teachers teach, but by the time I look at the sutra a little bit it's already time to stop and that's happened again.

[41:58]

So what I think I would do is I think I'm going to introduce, get ready for stories. The last two days I was thinking of telling stories about Dung Shan's Great Enlightenment. I told a story about other people's Great Enlightenment. The last Great Enlightenment I told a story about was Lin Jing. So I was going to now tell the story of sort of like his parallel, his contemporary. These are the two founders of the two big schools, and the two schools which are represented on our blood lineage chart, Linzhi School and Dongshan School. So I was going to talk about Dongshan, but yesterday and today, When I was bowing at the place of talking about Dungsan, both days I got tangled up in my robes and was late and wasn't able to get down in time for Dungsan.

[43:16]

So I thought, well, that's probably it for Dungsan. And sure enough, I don't think I'm going to be able to get to Dungsan except to tell you that I've been trying to get to Dungsan for three days and haven't been able to get there yet. I'm telling you ahead of time. I'd like to not tell you the story of Dung Shan's enlightenment, but I also want to get you ready for it. And one of the ways I want to get you ready for it is to say that a number of people, like, for example, two is a number, two people have said something like, you know, I wish I was ready to be hit. Somebody else said, the people around Wang Bo must have been really relaxed because he could hit them and they didn't break into 50 pieces.

[44:17]

And I think some of the success stories are when the student is relaxed and the teacher hits the student. If the student is not relaxed and you hit the student, they just break. It doesn't do any good. So, like, Wang Bo tried to, like, you know, get the students to let go. The big guy swinging the stick at them, they didn't move. They were not relaxed that day. And he called them drag slurpers. He didn't say, we're drag slurpers. He said, you're drag slurpers. Remember that part? They weren't relaxed that day. He couldn't hit anybody. He tried to scare them. He tried to get them to move. He didn't try to scare them. They were already scared. He tried to get them to stop strongly adhering to the way he appeared as the way he was. He appeared probably as this other person who was big, famous Zen master with that way, had an external giant monster.

[45:25]

He tried to get them by being that monster, but they couldn't go with it. So he gave up and just told them, maybe tomorrow you won't be drag slurpers. But with Lin Ji, he could see, I can hit him. It's a wacko. And they say, I wish I was ready to be hit. But then one person says something like, do you think it's ever by kindness that the Zen prompt the students into the enlightenment? Is it ever by kindness by which the student stops adhering and sees emptiness? And I thought, I don't know what I said to the person, but I thought later, how interesting it is that the story of Lin Ji is exactly about that. It's exactly about how Lin Ji comes to Wang Bo.

[46:30]

Wang Bo sees he's relaxed and swats him to help him. And Lin Ji doesn't see this as kindness. He thinks, this is a swat. Probably I did something wrong. Probably I'm not a very good student. Rather than, I must be a really good student because not only did he swat me, which shows he probably thinks I'm really relaxed, but I am really relaxed. Yeah. He didn't do that way. He thought he was relaxed enough to get hit, but he wasn't relaxed enough to get over his imputations on being hit. There was a dependent co-arising. There was the other dependent phenomenon. But Linji's mind put an essence on it, and he strongly adhered to it, three times. So then he went to see Dayu, and Dayu explained, Wang Bo was so kind to you, and to see that the swat was kind,

[47:43]

That's actually what he turned on, is that issue. That's what he woke up to, is that this was kindness. So then it makes sense that someone would come to me and say, well, it's always by kindness, never by anything else. It's always kindness that wakes you up, never not kindness. But it often looks like not your idea of kindness because if kindness looks like your idea of kindness, you just stay asleep. because you got everything under control. These are the kind things. I like the unkind, I like the kind, and I don't like the unkind. It is kindness that knocks you out of that. The teaching which tells you about this is a kindness which, if you meditate on it, you move out of it. It is a kindness when It is attempting to do that.

[48:47]

But even the kindness of Wang Bo three times was not sufficient. Wang Bo could not do it by himself. Linji could not take any more lessons. He had to go to somebody else. This guy is like extremely kind to you. And then Linji got it. It didn't look kind. It was kind. He got it. And someone also said to me, do you think it, I don't know, by that hitting and shouting that, how did you put it? Do I believe, what, how did you put it? Do I believe the stories? Do I believe the stories? Yeah, so I don't believe the stories. But I do believe that something has to stimulate the person to see how absurd their view is for them to allow the arrival which sees emptiness.

[50:02]

There's a school, one of the basic schools, one of the big schools of the Mahayanas called the Prasangika, Prasangika Majjamika, the middle way school of those who use consequence. How do they use consequence? They use consequence. They take somebody's position and they use the consequences of their position, the absurd, ridiculous consequences of their position, they use it to stimulate the birth in their mind of a consciousness emptiness. Like, so what is it? Huayka came to Bodhidharma and said, my mind's anxious. That's his position. Please pacify it, teacher. Bring me your mind, I'll pacify it.

[51:03]

Huayka at some point comes back and says, I looked for it and I couldn't find it. Bodhidharma says, it's pacified. The position is, I've got an anxious mind. That's the position. There's the imposition upon the dependently co-arisen anxious mind, the absurd position that the mind, okay? Well, if you've got one, bring it here and I'll pacify it for you. Look at that and you see the absurdity of it. Another mind arises. A mind which sees the absurdity of it. If this works, this is what we mean by compassion. If it doesn't, it's trying to be compassionate. Byjohn's walking with Matsu.

[52:12]

Some ducks fly over. Matsu says, what's that? In other words, what's your position? What's that? Bai Zhang says, wild ducks. Okay. Where'd they go? They flew away. That's your position? Here. You think they went away? What's the consequence of your position that the ducks flew away? What's the consequence? The ridiculous consequence. Your nose gets twisted. And then... in this twisted nose, is in the consequence of your position, a new mind has arisen. A mind which understands emptiness. Emptiness of what? Emptiness of the position that ducks flew away. Emptiness of the belief in the actual inherent existence

[53:20]

Which you superimposed on the flying ducks. So on and on. These stories don't necessarily sound so kind. They're recorded. They didn't record the ones where the nose twistings didn't work. I don't know how many. Probably quite a few people after Matsu tried it. But apparently, and I say probably they did. But it only worked like one time. The rest of them were not... They were trying to be kind, but it wasn't... It wasn't that simple. Another thing I'd like to mention, this is somewhat related, I suppose. Someone said to me, does Zen Master... I don't know what I said, but anyway, that person said to me, I said, she said something like, well, I don't really see them crying or hear about them crying.

[54:35]

I don't hear about so-and-so, I asked the Zen master, blah, blah, and he started crying. Well, anyway, Dogen was really into crying. He cried a lot. When he went to China, you know, he would see pieces of paper, you know. He would see documents of inheritance that people received and he burst into tears. He would see Ru Jing hitting people and he would start crying because he was so kind. He thought Ru Jing was so kind. He heard the rogue chant. You know, daizai gate up, he heard the rogue chant and started crying. And remember when Tetsugikai came to see him?

[55:38]

He cried. Dogen cried a lot. So, according to stories, Zen masters cry quite a bit, some of them. In the description of the type of Mahajanaka who is called a prasangika, in the type of middle way practitioner in the Mahayana who uses consequences, they use consequences to help people see emptiness. They use consequences to cause the arising of a consciousness They use the consequences of somebody's attitude, somebody's position, the consequences of what people believe to give rise to a mind which sees emptiness.

[56:47]

And actually, in the book, it actually says they use the consequences of the opponent's position. They're actually arguing. who have these views that things inherently exist. They're arguing with these people who will not switch from believing in inherent existence just by being invited to do so. What seems to this particular style of teaching is the absurdity Not of the position that the person has. The person's position isn't really absurd. To use the absurdity of the consequences of their position to shock them into realization. Or not necessarily shock them. Lull them into realization. Not by their position, but by the consequences of their position.

[57:50]

But that's just one school. So now I think you're ready, or we're ready, to look at the story of Dungsan's enlightenment. But that's a big story. The kitchen's got to leave very soon, right? So I'm not going to tell that story. I'm going to do that tomorrow, maybe, if I don't get tangled up in my robes. But I'll tell you beforehand, if you look at this, there's no hitting. There is some, something happens, but it doesn't look harsh. But it also doesn't look necessarily harsh. sweet or gentle necessarily either.

[58:56]

It is the way he awoke. It's the story of the way he awoke, of the type of interaction that helped his mind stop adhering to the other dependent as the imputational, how he awoke. So this story we can look at in detail to see how that maybe works. I'm not necessarily in this particular flow of events. I'm more like registering that as something I'd like to deal with because I thought she wanted to hear about it.

[59:58]

So I feel a... What do I say? I guess this is even kind of an inflated thought that I would have, this thought. But to some extent I have this inflated thought that I want to apologize to any of you who have not yet had this which understands emptiness in your interactions with me, that I have not been able to be with you in such a way that you have not yet realized emptiness. I'm kind of apologizing that I'm that I'm in such a way that our interactions have not engendered that mind in you, if that in fact is the case, that you have not yet understood the thoroughly established character of phenomena.

[61:43]

But I would say to you that I'm spending some effort trying to encourage getting ready for interacting to arise, to do what might be conducive to a way of interacting to arise that becomes a condition for this mind to arise, this mind which understands the absence of the imputational in the other dependent. But the uninflated way to put it is that you should be apologizing to me for not interacting with me in such a way as to give rise to that mind. That would be uninflated for me to think that, and it would be inflated for you to think that.

[62:52]

You should have interacted with me in such a way that my mind would be transformed into a vision of emptiness. But I bet none of you are ashamed of that. Because you're not inflated enough to think that you could teach me that, right? You're so humble. So tomorrow we can look at a different kind of a story, a different story about how Dung Shan's teacher, Dung Shan's teachers worked with this wonderful person to help him wake up to suchness. And again, with your help, maybe I can work in Matsu and so on to the story.

[64:03]

And I want to say one more time, when I said yesterday, Gambhira Artha Sandhinirmocana Sutra, Gambhira means deep, and Artha means meaning or object. It's a very deep is a very deep meaning in this sutra and so it is a very difficult sutra and I've always enjoyed the idea that we right now are living on the front edge of history we're like, we are like the latest version of, we are, for happening right now, you know. And that we're making, that we are, we are, we are the unfolding of the history of Buddhist studies in the West.

[65:11]

At this practice period, we have studied the sutra. For the first time that's ever happened in the history, at least of the Western hemisphere, I bet. This has never happened before, something like this. So we're really together being very creative in the unfoldment of Dharma. And so it's just unspeakably wonderful that we study this deep teaching and have the life that arises from this study together. And again, I'm deeply moved by the fact that you're letting this experience into your body and mind, letting it sink down into your marrow, even though there's some relation

[66:21]

because it's cold, it is sinking down. I can see it's sinking down into the bodies here. So in that sense, too, we're making history, we're creating a basis for the Mahayana on this continent, in this hemisphere. So I congratulate the practice period to play this role in the unfolding history of the Dharma on this. I congratulate each of you individually for the great effort you're making to be present in this process. So I'll try to start with Dungsan tomorrow, the sutra. May our intention equally penetrate.

[67:31]

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