I think I was talking with Sarah yesterday, and I mentioned that it seems to me that the process of cause and effect is clear and selfless, impersonal. and yet it's based on the law, the Dharma, of cause and effect. The selfless, clear Dharma is based on personal, subjective experience of deep faith. And the fact that freedom, the freedom which is realized, and the freedom which is realized by the selflessness of cause and effect, freedom is realized through the selflessness of cause and effect.

[01:30]

And that realization occurs in the process of moral development within cause and effect. Causality functions continuously and relentlessly in a selfless, impartial, irrevocable manner, regardless of whether it is accepted or rejected by the person in the midst of causality.

[02:36]

It functions just as fully and clearly and perfectly whether we observe it or not, whether we accept it or not, whether we understand it or not. I propose that enlightenment must be based on a wholehearted faith in cause and effect. This is in order to realize the selflessness of karmic causation and the freedom of karmic causation in the midst of karmic causation. It seems to me that in Buddhadharma we have to find a little way between, on one side, an analysis of karmic cause and effect, which becomes overly reified and therefore degenerates

[04:07]

into determinism, which just further entraps us rather than liberates us. We have to find a way to avoid that, avoid an analysis which reifies the causal process and degenerates into determinism. That's one extreme. One way you might think of avoiding an extreme by overly reifying the process through an analyzing cause and effect would just be don't analyze cause and effect. That's the other extreme. To reject analyzing cause and effect even for the purpose of avoiding its replication and degeneration into determinism.

[05:20]

If we do it right away, in the moment, before we even look to see what causal effect is, and if we reject it totally, we lose are foothold on the power, which is, to analyze, to some extent, cause and effect. Rear fire means power has a natural root. The root is res, R-E-S, which means a thing. Reify means you make a thing. Make a thing of causing it to happen. Reify means to make an idea or an abstract doctrine into a concrete thing.

[06:34]

to make cause and effect into a thing or things that generates into determinism. Determinism is the teaching that every event and every act and decision is inevitably a consequence of past conditions, physical, psychological, and environmental conditions, that are independent of human intention. Terminism is that every act is a consequence of past actions and is independent of human intention. So Buddhadharma doesn't teach that every act is independent of human intention.

[07:54]

It says actions depend on human intention and therefore are not independent of human intention. In itself, if we overly analyze, we then degenerate. Buddhism degenerates into determinism. And again, in order to avoid that, some people reject the analysis. And sometimes, without rejecting it straight up, they reject it by saying things like, cause and effect obscured and not falling into cause and effect, cause and effect not obscured and not falling into cause and effect are the same. These are ways to avoid determinism. Intended as output, but as I pointed out at the end of his life,

[09:07]

rejects the rejecting of cause and effect to protect against reification. Now I offer you a karmic analysis. In the context of what I just said. Here's an analysis. Basically, I think these are two types of effects, two types of fruit of karma. And there might be more than but it might be three or four.

[10:18]

But anyway, I'm just mentioning two, and maybe I'll change my analysis later, but the two I mentioned are what are called different maturing fruit and even falling fruit. And different maturing fruit is... to a person, an experience, a feeling, a sensation. And on the other side, the even flowing truth, one that could be subdivided or analyzed further into two types. One type is further karma.

[11:22]

So karma has the fruit of more karma. This flows eagerly into more karma. It's the condition for more karma. And skillful karma is a condition for skillful karma. And unskillful karma is a condition for unskillful karma. However, unskillful karma can also be a condition for skillful karma, and skillful karma can also be a condition for unskillful karma. Meditating on skillful and unskillful karma is a type of karma which can even convert unskillful karma to not convert, but it can lead from unskillful to skillful.

[12:30]

Not meditating on skillful karma can lead to unskillful karma. In other words, you can change tracks through meditation. So again, on the side of even flowing through from karma is that karma evolves based on past karma. And based on past karma being meditated on or not. Karma evolves Karma evolves depending on whether we meditate on present karma or not. Meditating on present karma is a condition for positive evolution, skillful becoming more skillful, unskillful jumping to skillful.

[13:35]

In this way, karma can evolve more and more positively. actually become more and more virtues. But another consequence of karma, which is not exactly just more karma, but which I recall a kind of ripeness, a readiness. It's not an action. It's a readiness. And that is also the result of karma. and meditation on karma. Skillful karma being meditated on, skillful karma being meditated on, skillful karma being meditated on leads to more and more skillful karma, but also leads to occasions of readiness. And in the occasions of readiness, enlightenment can occur.

[14:41]

Enlightenment is not another karmic act. But karma sets up the opportunity for awakening, or karma sets up the not ready for awakening. There are many stories of where a student, male or female, comes to a male or female teacher, and the teacher says, This is not a good time. This is not your day. The karmic affinity is not yet ripe. See you later. There's no point today. You're not ready. And there are other stories where the student comes, and because of their past karma, they are ready.

[15:49]

and the interaction is one of awakening. In the old translation of the precious mirror samadhi, it said, the meaning is not in the words, but the response to the inquiring impulse. That is to say, no. It still says that? What? Oh, yeah. The meaning is not in the word, but a pivotal moment. This pivotal moment is set by karma. And a lot of our stories are stories about these pivotal moments.

[16:53]

And some of our stories are about moments when the person has been practicing for a long time, perhaps, and is very skillful, doing wholesome prana for a long time, but they're still. It's not the right time. They're not right. So it isn't just that you practice kindness and get more and more skillful, more and more skillful, all of that. It isn't just that you meditate on kindness, and meditate on kindness, and you get more and more skillful, although that does happen. And that's great, to get more and more skillful is wonderful. It isn't just that, though. Because that is actually, in a sense, not a spiritual not a spiritual process. It's set up the spiritual process. It's actually a psychological process, which arises in relationship to the non-psychological universe.

[18:02]

It's the psychology which arises in dependence on the whole universe, which, when observed, evolves into more and more skillful psychological states. But at some point, the psychological condition is ripe for the spiritual event, which is to realize the selflessness of the entire team. The entire team is selfless. And there's a person there who can enjoy it with all beings. And I'll just tell two stories about two lepers. One leper lived at the time of Buddha, and another leper lived at the time of the second ancestor in China.

[19:06]

The first one's kind of interesting to me because he has kind of an interesting name. His name is Super Buddha. Super Buddha. Super Buddha was a leper. And he was moving around on the Indian subcontinent looking for food. And he saw a large assembly. And he thought that there was a food distribution event. So he went over to see if he could get some food. But what he found when he got there was, shockingly, Buddha was giving a Dharma talk. So although no food was being offered to him, he decided to stay for the talk. The Buddha, looking into the hearts of the assembly to see if anybody was ripe,

[20:14]

saw Supabuddha, the leper, and saw that he looked ripe. And then he gave a talk, which he gave to the whole assembly. And it was for Supabuddha, the leper. And he talked and he talked and he talked until Supabuddha got real relaxed. and soft, and open, and even more ripe. And then this thing happened, which Buddha didn't make happen, and Super-Buddha didn't make happen. All of the Buddhas come, and all the Super-Buddhas come, and the interaction between them and everything else in the universe, it happened as Super-Buddha woke up. and stood up and danced for Joe.

[21:21]

He was a leper who was ripe. Causes and conditions brought him to be a leper. It doesn't say whether he was experiencing pain and plenty. He had been trying to get on the talk or before. But he was experiencing off and on the fruits of his past karma. One of the fruits was whatever his feelings were. Another fruit was that he was in a wholesome state, in a state of readiness. Further analysis I would suggest to you is that the physical condition of me and you, me as a physical phenomena, and you as a physical phenomena, and Lorraine as a physical phenomena, are also, the physical phenomena that we're dealing with, are also the result of karma.

[22:45]

but they're not the result of individual karma. They're the result of the karma of all beings. So the physical world is the result of the karma of all beings, and then the living beings who live in the physical world, and their bodies are part of the physical world, Our bodies are part of the physical world. Those bodies are also, as physical bodies, are the result of the karma of all beings. But the feeling of the particular person is the result of past karma, past intention of that person. which that person experienced in the past without there being a self that made those actions, that made those intentions.

[23:56]

And also, each moment we have an intention, and that intention depends on past actions. And those intentions arise in a body that interacts with the world, which is the result of the karma of all beings. So my body interacts with the world, that's the result of the karma of all beings, and my body is part of the world. That's the result of the karma of all beings. So part of the world which is the result of the karma of all beings, responds to the rest of the world, which is the result of the karma of all beings, and consciousness arises, and it carries an intention. And that intention has consequences which mature, which come to turn as feelings, and which come to fruit, but not maturing fruit, but just ongoing fruiting,

[25:12]

as more states of consciousness. So that's an analysis to start you off with. It's an analysis of karma. For the sake, not of making that into a thing, but for the sake of realizing this process is selfless. There's not an actor in the action, there's not a decider in the decision, There's not a feeler in the feeling, and so on. But one actually appears, it has consequence. And this is a story of an analysis. The second letter. Pardon? The second letter. The second letter. OK. Second letter. He was a leopard, but he didn't have a family name. He went to see the second ancestor, Hoika.

[26:20]

He was attracted to go and study with him. And he went to see him and didn't tell the second ancestor what his name was. And he said, I'm a leopard. Because of my wrongdoing, he said. Please save me from my wrongdoing. And the second Ancestor says, Bring me your wrongdoing. And the leper said, I can't find it. The second Ancestor said, I saved you from your wrongdoing. And I'll give you a name. And your name is Jewel of the Sun. Sun Tzu.

[27:22]

Jewel of the Sun. And now please go hide, Jewel of the Sun. There's some rough stuff coming down the road to the police. So you might have been here for a long time. And his teacher didn't, and experienced some intense revilement leading to his death. But he had this little jewel. And he said, you are my jewel. Go hide, because I'm going to stay out in the Oakland, and they're going to get me. But you go hide. And he went and hid. And after the persecution of Buddhism lifted, he found a person named Daoxin, the fourth ancestor. And Daoxin could live in an open and have a big community.

[28:27]

And then, in a sense, at that point, our lineage becomes actually what I call historical. We can't find out much about the leper who was hiding out. We don't even know his name. But the leper's disciple, the Buddha leper disciple, he emerges in history. And we have his stupa. We visited his stupa in China. We have his tempest. His temple's been built now. It's a bridge between... So, these people are experiencing the consequence of individual karma and group karma. Having a body is the result of group karma and individual karma. Of course your body comes from your parents.

[29:28]

but not just from them, also comes from your past karma. And not just from your parents, your body comes from the karma of all beings. And the condition of it comes from ongoing karma, and the feelings you have come from ongoing karma. But even if you're a leper and you're in pain, you could be at that moment right, But as far as I know, you will not be right if you do not have deep faith in project-causing faith. We will not be ready and right without faith. But even if you have that, you might be a leper in pain looking for lunch, a hungry leper. the right thing to live.

[30:30]

You could be a hungry, suffering, challenged living being who has been studying cause and effect wholeheartedly without reifying it, who has now realized the You are now ready for this thing to happen which, of course, no self can make happen. which persons can realize without the person hurting the enlightenment or the enlightened hurting the person.

[31:38]

After he was awake, by the way, he didn't immediately, neither one of them immediately stopped being lepers after they awoke. But Song San, during his 30 years of hiding out, could get actually recovered from leprosy. But not right at the time of enlightenment. He was a right leper, and then he was an enlightened successor of the Dharma tradition as a leper. We have a leper in our tradition, in our own lineage. If you like, please come up. Just a little comment.

[32:43]

I read that Swigert did not want to accept him at first. He said, you're a leper and you can't be a monk. But then he convinced him by his strong wish to learn Dharma. Yeah, lepers are not allowed to become monks, according to the usual rules. Of course, now that we have litigious analysis, we can't bomb lepers, fortunately. I think there's two different ways that I receive these teachings about cause and effect. Can you hear him? I think there's two different ways that I sort of experience these teachings about cause and effect, and one of them is really joyful.

[33:50]

One of them is that what I do and what I say and what I think matters. and that that process is ongoing and mysterious, and sort of goes out through time and space, it actually just makes me want to run around being kind all day, right? Because it's just heading out, and that I'm not going to see necessarily ever what that does, but there's some sort of, maybe this is the faith side. Well, that's right view, you know, so the right view, That's untainted. The untainted right view doesn't say that it's meritorious and that the merit comes back to the point of attachment. So if there's no attachment to self, the good effects just go all over the place. There's no point in them getting healed up. So that's kind of a selfless way to see the process.

[34:51]

So there's the feeling I've had that just one walking on a path that a thought, I think at the very beginning of the practice period when we were talking about the gathas from the Avatamsaka Sutra, right? So there's some idea that just a good intention in a moment will ripple out throughout space and time in some way that I'll never see. Not until you're a completely realized Buddhist monk. Which might be a while, so in no rush and just have them just go. So that's one way I received the teaching. But there's another way, and I wondered if this was maybe when I reify it in a different way. There's another way in which this teaching is actually really terrifying, in exchange with Melinda the other day about fear. So if I say one phrase wrong, I'm going to be a fox for 500 lifetimes. And I don't know necessarily that being a fox is bad, but that idea that, you know, if you mess up even a tiny bit, it's that, what was the line the other day?

[35:57]

A foot of water and a phantom of wave. Yeah. Horrifying things are going to happen to me and to everyone around me. Four horrifying things can happen. Uh-huh. Yeah. So as someone who... who misspeaks, who gets things wrong, who makes mistakes, who's clumsy, who's thoughtless, right? These things happen. There's a way in which this teaching about how that's going to ripple out throughout space and time is horrifying, right? It actually isn't joyful. Do you see what I mean? I have these two different feelings. So that's how you're starting to reaffirm it. Is that what it is? Yeah, you're reaffirming it. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's terrifying. But also, that's also re-affirming the side of ignorance and the point of attachment. So we don't take that back and say, no, no, we don't really mean that a small action can return to a huge truth.

[36:58]

We're not taking that back. But we're not also re-affirming it. The teaching is still there. The Buddha said this kind of thing over and over. But he saw this. It's not just prediction, you can see it. But you've got to be careful not to realize it. Otherwise you get knocked off meditation by becoming a forest fire. You've frightened. But part of that, listening to those teachings, and not getting too freaked out when you hear them, is then that you will be careful about every little act, And there's another factor of this is that even if you don't make any more mistakes in the past, there's things which at any point a karmic bond might drop on this thing. So when is it going to hit? I don't know. Probably something will land, at least soon.

[38:02]

So rather than getting frightened, you would just send out further projectiles I want to get ready. And one of the main ways to get ready is to watch what I'm doing now. So if you receive it and get freaked out, then that's OK. You're reaffirming too much. And you're receiving it in such a way that it's maturing on the side of attaching, and you're frightening or setting away. Now you've got to get back on the horse. and calmly meditate on the situation. And also hear the teaching that if you're ready, even if things do manifest in a really heavy way, you can do well with them. You can be a leper. You can have really tough cancer. You could even have Alzheimer's. and respond to the skillfully and express selflessness for the welfare of the world, no matter what hits you.

[39:12]

However, it's also the case that if you hit because of practice. But it's also the case that practice affects the way things hit you. But it's not that we're doing this to hit us lighter. Because in a way, when they hit heavy, that is a greater challenge to the practice. So either way, if they become less severe because we're practicing, the unskillful mature earlier, the skillful mature later, the unskillful get bigger, the unwholesome get smaller than they would if we weren't practicing. That's okay, right? But the other side which is fun is that bring on the big one when I'm skillful enough. And that could even demonstrate a greater realization of selflessness. The stories that attracted me to Zen were not stories of people having nice karmic things happen to them, or nice events coming to them, and doing well.

[40:18]

It was when people were doing things which we usually react to unskillfully, ungratefully. And then they came back with this skillful, joyful response. Or anyway, even-handed response, no matter what. You know, just a present, calm, disgust, no matter what comes. Would you say that the more joyful way of receiving the teaching, when we re-applies it less, is closer to what you've been calling deep faith? And that Yeah. But also, another thing I would say is when you're horrified, the good side of that is you actually have heard something. There is something about the teaching, which is pretty serious, that we don't want you to get freaked out with your meditation, but we also want you to realize this is serious business. Suffering is not a small thing.

[41:21]

So we want you to know that a small thing can cause big suffering, and we want you to hear that and be like... I want you to hear that every little thing you do, slightly off, can have a big, bad consequence. And then you kind of feel like, whoa, that's a big statement there. Wow. Glad I heard that. That's true news, actually. That makes me feel really sincere. That's what we hope for when we hear that. And if somebody says, I'm dealing with Buddhism, we say, wait, come back. We didn't really mean that. It's not that bad. So, you know, but the fact that the person was pretty solid is that they actually didn't hear something. There's a kernel of truth in what they heard, but they made it too solid. So I told Red about an idea I had yesterday.

[42:46]

And he said the idea, first he said it wasn't correct. And then he said that it didn't match his understanding. And he said that he'd like me to say the idea here this morning. And then maybe you'll say something. Is that not loud enough? So my idea that I expressed, is that loud enough? So the idea I had was that Say I'm going to the samovar and I have an idea and my intention at the time is that I'm constricted in the world. I'm an individual and I want to get to the samovar first and I kind of elbow my way through and get the water and go away.

[43:54]

You're kind of disrespectful of the other people who want to use the samovar? Yeah. And no one calls me on it. No one calls you on it. And I don't see it myself. Then maybe... sometime later I go into the kitchen and there's no one around and I have an idea that I want some cookies and I go and take some cookies and no one calls me on it and it feels pretty good and they tasted pretty good and that's kind of increased my sense of isolation and separation And then maybe sometime later, I wake up in the night and feel heckish and go into the walk-in and take a pumpkin cheesecake. This is all hypothetical, by the way. And then maybe sometime later... This isn't a confession. It isn't a confession.

[44:55]

Sometime later, I... Maybe just before the end of the practice period, I go into Everett's office and take some cash. And maybe that's the one where people call me on it. And my question to you was, is that the fruit of those previous karmas? And you said, that wasn't correct, from what I understand. Yeah, so it's a nice story when he told them about the isolation and so on. So you go to the samovar and you're kind of disrespectful to the people around the samovar and they don't say anything to you about it because you haven't expressed publicly, vowed to be respectful to people at the samovar. So they think, well, he probably doesn't . You haven't committed contentedly to ever going to the treasury .

[45:55]

So that's good. The part I was picking on, which you said, the last one was the fruit. Getting caught is, I would say, not really the maturing fruit of those actions. It's the pain. It's the pain, yeah. And would it be the pain of feeling the isolation? Actually, all along, if you were feeling pain of feeling isolated, then I probably wouldn't... I'm saying if you did feel the pain along the way... And be aware of it. Yeah. I don't know if all those pains are due to past action or if they're due to the fundamental pain.

[46:58]

So this is a big diversion from what you're bringing up, but I'll just mention it and elaborate later. Pain of isolation is not pain of pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral sensation. It's not the same pain. It's spiritual pain. The pain of fear and anxiety is not the pain of pleasure, pain, and neutral. That's worldly pain. That's the pain which comes from karma. But karma also leads to a sense of isolation. But the sense of isolation is spiritual pain, it's religious pain, which you feel, which I feel, even when I'm in a state of extremely intense pleasure. Even in the highest states,

[47:59]

of concentration and pleasure, or even in a state of equanimity about the highest pleasure. If one has a karmic past, which leads one to feel isolated from the universe, there is pain. However, it's pain which is totally overwhelmed, probably, by this intense pleasure. So one doesn't care, which is why it's hard to practice in those states. That's a big point. The pain of the noble truth of suffering is not the noble truth of unpleasant sensation. The Buddha had unpleasant sensation throughout his life. Even towards the end of his time he had unpleasant sensations. he could go into a trance, into a concentration state where there would be no unpleasant sensation.

[49:01]

But in ordinary daily life, without being in a samadhi like that, he would experience painful sensations, which would indicate to him that he should sit down and drink some water because he was sick. But he was free of the suffering that comes from feeling isolated. Sometimes when we feel a painful sensation, a worldly painful sensation, we want to have a cookie. Sometimes. But it's more likely, a more powerful drive to have a cookie is to assuage that spiritual pain. And that pain, infinite cookies cannot satisfy, cannot dissuade, cannot move. The painful sensation of the worldly type, which is the material, karma, and other things, not just karma, those painful sensations can be manipulated by ingesting sugar.

[50:07]

Because sure enough, you get pleasant sensation when you eat sugar. See, that did it. That counterbalances the worldly pleasure. This is an analysis. Don't reify this. But the pain of isolation, which drives us all over the place, that much more profound. And that requires realizing selflessness to become clear. And that's not to do with karma? That's not to do with karma? It has to do... Well, karma is part of what sets us up to, you know, to be... Yes, to be ripened, but also it sets us up to continue to see the world in such a way that we feel isolated. So we see ourselves as isolated, then we act with intentions coming from a sense of isolation. And one of the consequences is another state of consciousness where we see ourself as separate.

[51:12]

So karma reinforces and reifies this illusion of separation. But also karma can make us right to see the selflessness in the process that we're studying. Or rather, studying karma can make us right to see the selflessness in the process that we're in the midst of and studying. In your story, I think it is the case that a person does something and doesn't get feedback because they're not practicing enough to draw the feedback quickly. then they do something else which might be more severe. But because they're not practicing, the result doesn't come. And they do something more severe. And finally maybe they get caught. And then they say, hmm, what am I doing? Like there still isn't the maturing of the karma. So what would be the maturing?

[52:14]

I mean... In some sense, getting caught is not the maturing of the karma, it would be pain. But when you steal something, usually if you steal something, I mean, often if you steal something, you get caught and you feel pain. The pain is often not because of that particular moment, but from, again, past karma, which you feel the pain. But also it can be... But getting caught, you can feel the pain not from maturing of past karma, but because the person's hitting you. The person's attacking you. That's why you feel the pain. It's not the past karma. It's not the maturing past karma. So maturing could be five years later. It's a consequence in the sense that you steal something and somebody hits you. But it's not the maturing of the karma. Then later, and hopefully soon, but maybe not soon, later you experience the maturing of the karma.

[53:22]

So, karmic consequence is not the same as karmic maturing. So you walk into a situation and you get in trouble because you're unskillful the way you did it. That's not the maturing at that time. And in your case, the story could be, and when the person got caught, the person suddenly realized, enlightened. They suddenly realized the selflessness in the process which they couldn't see before. And that would be due, I would say, to this person having for a long time studied karma and become right. It doesn't very often happen that way. Usually, if a person's stealing something and they're right at that time, there will probably be somebody else there with them to help them in most of the stories.

[54:32]

And that study wouldn't have been self-powered? The study wouldn't have been self-powered in the past. That would have been due to previous karma. Yeah. The study is due to previous karma. And previous karma arises interdependently with the world we live in. . Would I say, not by spiritual pain? Yeah. I will. So, in that story, I wouldn't necessarily say that there was maturing of any kind throughout the story. Not necessarily any maturing of any kind throughout that story. But all those actions were dependent on past karma.

[55:39]

So past karma was a condition for all those actions, and those previous actions were a condition for the final action. So karma causation was going on, but I didn't necessarily see any maturing in that story, the way you told it. But you introduced this other interesting element, was the awareness that there was a sense of isolation throughout the process. And then I would say, along with that sense of isolation was pain. And that pain is what often drives us. I'm talking about that spiritual thing is what drives us to try to do something to cope with it in terms of action. And sometimes what we do to cope with it is really unskilled, like thinking that getting to the sound of life quickly perhaps will reduce the suffering. We sometimes think so.

[56:42]

I just get there ahead of everyone else, the suffering will go away. And it doesn't, but we don't notice that because we're not paying attention, because we're so much trying to do something to get rid of it. But we can't get rid of it by trying to get rid of it. We can only get rid of it by paying attention to what we're doing. And by paying attention to what we're doing, we will notice that there's selflessness in this process, that what we're doing is actually demonstrating selflessness nonstop. And then we see the selflessness, and that relations with this isolation and the pain and fear, the anxiety that comes from feeling unsupported by all our friends. And when you feel unsupported by all your friends, you feel anxious and isolated, and you want to get to the stand lower fast.

[57:45]

Hopefully that will cure us of this pain. But it doesn't cure it in the separation, of course. It doesn't even necessarily intensify it. But it just, you know, puts another layer, a coat of shellac on. It just makes it a little bit more substantial. It's the best we can do at the moment to keep the show of delusion going. Does that make quite a bit of sense? Did you want me to say more about the spiritual pain? What do you want me to say? Well, I need a talk. Do you want to talk with me? I'm kind of talking about it all the time, actually. Yes? Oh, everyone didn't go away.

[58:51]

He's just going to be in the altar. It almost feels like your talk was prescribed because of what I wanted to say. Thank you. I've been kind of walking up here since yesterday. Finally made it. Can I say something? Yes. So if you can't hear, just raise your hand, and then I'll tell her to talk louder. Just throughout these conversations, if you can't hear, raise your hand, and I'll tell the person speaking to speak up. Okay. In my life, I feel that I experience extraordinary amount of hatred and disregard. In the world, they don't hand me my change. No one sits next to me on the bus, even when it's crowded.

[59:56]

Disregard. Disregard. I have people cuss me out for no reason. Derogatory statements for no reason. just the sight of me brings on disregard. And it feels like hatred to me. Disregard or disrespect or hatred. It feels like hatred to me. Yeah. So I feel like now I'm at the place in my life I've been just moving along with it, and now I feel like if I can't really move to that place of the selfless path in effect or removing any hindrances, I will die. And I mean that literally. It's affecting my body.

[60:57]

I was in hospital three times this year, emergency room. So I feel like I practice to stay alive. And So even here at Tassajara, I feel like I've experienced it also, city center as well, where I practice disregard. And there's been an ongoing kind of act that's been going happening since I've been here and it's feeding into this disregard. I don't know if it's disregard and, um, about, uh, from maybe about six to maybe I stopped counting after six times, somewhere between six and 10 times. Um, I haven't been served, Mr. Bo, Mr. This, I missed that.

[61:59]

And, um, I don't know the reasons for that, but it feeds into the disregard. That's why I mentioned it. It feeds into the sense of feeling disregarded. Disregarded. So I used to go around saying that that was my karma, felt that that was my karma. And from understanding what you're saying, throughout the practice period, it's not my karma in the way I've been thinking of it. And I used to claim it as my suffering as well. And I don't claim it as my suffering as much either. But I don't know how to save my life. I don't know how to practice with this. OK. Well, I don't need to respond.

[63:06]

I also sometimes feel hated and disregarded. And definitely, people are very intelligent. particularly at Zen Center. When I travel to places where people come voluntarily and they want to see me, they see me, then at the beginning of the retreat usually they don't hate me. But anyway, people also, I feel that towards me. And I kind of like to stay around Zen Center because of that, because it's a challenge to me. And And I would say that I am responsible for people hating me, disregarding me, discounting me, disparaging me.

[64:10]

I'm responsible for it. But so is everybody else. We're all responsible for the world, and we're all responsible for the way everybody acts. That's what I understand at this point. But we don't use this. And the way we feel about... Sometimes we feel disregarded and we're happy because they're not going to ask us to wash the dishes or whatever. Other times we feel disregarded and we feel pain at that time. So, and sometimes, sometimes the pain we feel when we're hated and disregarded, sometimes that pain's from past karma. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't. If somebody disregards you and then finally slaps you in the face, the pain you feel is not from past karma. is from having functioning nerve nerves. It's good that it's latching now, if it's hard or soft.

[65:13]

That's not from past karma. That's not the maturity of past karma. However, that having a functioning sheik nerve is the results, not the maturing, but the results of the action of everyone. Everyone's responsible for being alive. The difference between your story and mine is they disregard you after they get to know you. No. Did you say that like in the workshop you walk in and then later? No, that's at the workshop. Other places I go, they disregard me and hate me before they get to know me. Now, I'm not saying it's the same. They know something else. It's a story. Yeah, their story. Now, I'm not African-American. But I am a bald guy that looks like a martial artist to some people. So I go into grocery stores, and some people are afraid of me and hate me.

[66:16]

My wife doesn't like me or my priest clothes when we travel around because she doesn't like everybody looking at us. So people, they disregard me to my face, and when I go past them, they look at me. So I'm used to that. I'm used to that people looking at me when I'm not looking at them. Do they treat you bad? Do they treat me badly? Yeah, sometimes they do. But not so much because they're afraid of me. But they hate me because they're afraid of me. Some big African-American people do not get treated badly because everybody's afraid of them. They put people back away because they look very strong. All kinds of patterns anyway. I'm not trying to say that it's the same. I'm just saying I have also a feeling people are afraid of me where I go. And people are essentially afraid of me. And because people are afraid of me, they get angry at me. And I think probably people are afraid of you too.

[67:18]

Probably they're afraid that you or somebody will think that they're prejudiced against you. So then if they're afraid of that, They may get angry at you because they're afraid of you thinking that they're prejudiced or whatever. Or they're angry at you because they're afraid that you think that they're disregarding you. So we're all responsible for this. So to me, the only, not the only, the way to go is for me to look at my intentions all the time when people are regarding me, disregarding me. When they love me, when they hate me. When they're afraid of me, whatever they're doing, the path of happiness for me and everybody around me, I think, is to be aware of my intention. And then have analysis of how things happen, like pain, sometimes being disregarded and all that. I have to keep looking at my own intention. It doesn't mean that from that intention I don't say to somebody,

[68:22]

something to assuage the situation or soften the sense of isolation or disregard or fear. It doesn't mean I don't do something. I just wanted to clarify, too, for me, it's not race all the time because I get the same thing from African Americans. Exactly the same. Exactly the same. And so it could be anything because I feel like I'm everything that is supposedly disliked. Race, class, gender, sexual orientation, now disability. So everybody can project that, their hatred in those areas. And some people hate people that are healthy. that look strong, that look like male authority figures. People hate them, too. And they shoot them just like they shoot, you know.

[69:26]

So it's a situation where we... Not the same, but I feel these things. And part of me wants to go someplace where everybody loves me, because I actually do know some places like that. For a few minutes, people like me... And actually, I travel, as I told you, I travel and I tell people, you know, when I can tell the whole group loves me, I say, you all love me, but, you know, if I stayed here longer, a lot of you would start hating me and laugh. They'd say, it's a joke. But by the end of the day, they know it's true. I start to, you know, I start to see what, you know, there's something there to be afraid of and something to hate. If we feel suffered, So we have to keep looking at our own mind of separation and our own mind of karma. And that has made me less afraid of people being afraid of me, more patient with people being afraid and angry at me because they're afraid with me.

[70:32]

I'm not saying I've completely gotten over it, but it is kind of painful to see people afraid of you. It is kind of painful to see people angry at you when you're afraid of them. and try to avoid you. But like I said, some people here have admitted to me that they're trying to avoid me in this valley, this tiny little valley. They're trying to avoid me. And I think we all sometimes, not necessarily because we're afraid, we're afraid of having a long conversation with somebody. So that person's going to be like, if I see them, they're going to want to talk to me for 20 minutes. So I just go around the end of the kitchen. You know, so we do this stuff right here in this valley. So at that time, unrepentantly for me to look in my mind and what's my intention now? What is my intention? How do I see myself in relationship to this person? A million times a day. And that doesn't mean that if you do this and become happy and relaxed and fearless and patient,

[71:40]

that there won't be some opportunities for patience, that there won't be some people who are still trying to avoid you. Even the Buddha had people who were trying to bop him off. But he related to them compassionately. But it wasn't like it was pleasant for him to have them try to kill him. So it doesn't mean that as you become enlightened and happen in compassion that people won't keep testing you with disregard, disrespect, They still may. And there may be periods when it doesn't happen for a while, which is fine. It's nice. But during those periods we still have to keep practicing what's my intention. Otherwise, when the big wave comes, we're not ready for it. And so you've had a lot of big waves coming at you, so we've got to get ready for these. We've got to get ready for the next wave. And the way to be ready is to look inside and see what your intention is. When that becomes clearer and clearer, and when the wave comes, you go, OK, here we go.

[72:45]

Here comes the next one. I want this practice to continue through this wave. Try to stay with it all the way through. I don't know where this wave's going to toss me, but I want to stay with the awareness of my intention through this. I know you're already doing this, but that's what I'm saying. That's my deep faith. That's the way to show us that there's no self in this process, and there's freedom in this process. There's nobody running the show. Everybody's subject to causation. Courageous people are made into courageous people. Some people are made into nocturnes. Some people aren't courageous. They're just made that way. Like this guy, somebody gave me this book about 35 white men who challenged racism. And the first guy says, being human means we're all made by our environment. He said, I wasn't made prejudiced, but other people are.

[73:51]

I just made them. And we have to not look down on them. We have to help them. We have to awaken them. There's no self in this whole process. But we have to study to see that. And when we see that, we will be free. But the free people keep getting tested. You're free, huh? Okay, how about this? Go being a fox for a little while, okay? If that's coming... I'm valid in practicing cause and effect study because this is completely necessary now. I'm not regressed that I've been meditating even though this terrible big challenge is coming. And then, wow, made it through. Survived this new next big challenge, this next big challenge. Do you want me to paint the framing for you?

[74:56]

It was a tough act to follow. I've been thinking about karma a lot and reincarnation, rebirth. I have some difficulty with the idea of rebirth. Can I tell you a story that sort of illustrates what I mean? How long is it? Relatively short. Okay. Before my wife died, she told me on numerous occasions that she believed in rebirth and reincarnation. And at those times, it seemed to make sense, and it was something that I went along with. I didn't really think about it too much. Then after she died, I was sitting on the couch listening to some music on the stereo, and the cat came up and tapped me on the wrist, just like that, with one pat of her paw.

[76:29]

And the cat did this every time she wanted to be petted. Marcia caught her to do this. It took her about a year working with the cat. teach the cat to come up and go, poop, poop, poop, and then she'd get pet. When this happened, Marsha had been dead for some time. But the cat still did this. The cat probably had no recollection of Marsha. But there was this sort of like remainder of this behavior. And then I started thinking about, well, if the cat can respond to this kind of interaction between two people, how have I been shaped and trained by all those years that Marcia and I spent together?

[77:35]

And ways that I can't even begin to imagine. And louder. So how have I been trained by all of our years together? All the subtle things that happen between two people that often go unnoticed at the time, and patterning, shaping. And how does that happen with every interaction that I do with other people? So that it just keeps going and going and going in this incredibly intricate web. You can't begin to pull out any separate threads. But every now and again, something pops up, like a cat tapping your wrist. The cat gets petted and seems to be very happy.

[78:43]

Probably doesn't even understand what's going on for me or is discouraged for tears almost. And when I think about this, for me that is karma. That is the way karma works in this world. Why do we need to have rebirth? around to explain it. It's something as subtle as a little kindness with a cat can be passed around everywhere. Why do we need to explain that heinous crimes go unpunished by proposing rebirth? Heinous crimes are in themselves the punishment. the separation, the idea that I can do something to someone else, and that is actually somebody else that I'm doing it to.

[79:50]

That's the problem. And that when the rippling out from that action finally ends somewhere, whether the person who first did it is dead or alive, That final result is the results. So what's your intention? My intention? Mm-hmm. Carefully study everything I do. Hallelujah. That's so important to do. Don't worry about this other stuff. Just carefully study everything you do. That's what's important. The conversation between and yourself, supported by everybody else, sort of made my interest in asking one question go away.

[81:41]

Louder. I don't want to ask a question anymore. I'm just telling you because of the conversation. And since that point, I sort of lost my interest in asking a question. But I still wanted to come forward and let you know that. OK. And unless you have a question for me, I'll happily sit down. How do you feel? I feel inspired. She feels inspired. Did you hear that? Say it loudly. I feel inspired. Inspired in what way? Inspired to be careful about everything I do. Great. We'll enjoy that. Max, quick! Quick!

[82:43]

Help! Ah, thank you. Morning. You asked me to make a vow yesterday and I wasn't right. It wasn't heartfelt and I really took introspection in the moment and also sense looking what is it. what is really my vow. And I'm finding myself really terrified to a point of wanting to vomit all the time, from knowing that there's big waves coming.

[83:47]

And I'm also confused. So I beg for your help to clarify. In the dictionary bounds, I read in the dictionary before Sushin that after the definition of Sushin it explained that the Zen is encouraged by the Roshi in the Tensho every day. to clarify, to clarify. So on that point, I beg for your help. There's two teachings that we've been talking about, and those two teachings have been, I've heard before, and they've been really pivotal in my practice in my life. The teachings of the Bodhisattva vow and the teaching of

[84:49]

this very mind is Buddha, that even the small mind is an expression of big mind, and that there is no need of fixing anything. And you've been talking about that. In the midst of delusion, in any posture, in any condition of the mind, realization is possible. And I asked about this yesterday, how in the midst of fear, and somebody else brought it up today, of being frightened... I want to say something. Today I would not say that in any situation realization is possible. That's right. I don't understand.

[85:54]

All of these teachings, when they've been expressed, have had deep resonance. The teaching that you just expressed, yes, there is readiness. And so there's just relapse and there's no need to go seeking it. Correct. So almost any situation, if there's brightness, there can be realization. And it's not always that there's brightness. That's right. We could be in a really difficult situation, but if we're right, we can open to the truth. And we get right, right, constant attention to our intention, to our vows. We're right in that way. And when we don't attend to them, it slows the process down or even sends it off track. It seems to. So what's your vow? Let me see what comes.

[86:56]

I might not be ready. Well, maybe if you're not ready, come back later. The closest is I vow to come back to the heart. I come, I vow to come back to, to that, that... How are you now? Wonderful. I felt that I needed to come up here because I felt some pain in some parts of your interaction with Earthling.

[88:05]

Yes. And I felt that I'd like to express that. In the beginning, when Earthling was expressing what her experience is in this world, I was uncomfortable that your first response was telling her that sometimes it's hard for you too. And I know that that was probably a way for you to try to connect with her experience, and also probably I felt it was a way that you were trying to let her know that you've actually practiced with this and you wanted to share what was helpful for you in practicing with that. Okay. Maybe that's wrong. But I felt uncomfortable because I've felt and I've experienced in my own life that when I'm expressing something that's painful for me and someone comes to me or expresses that it's hard for them too,

[89:09]

and I feel that they're in a really different situation, I sometimes don't feel really seen or really understood. And I do feel that you and Ursuline have come up through the world experiencing different, very large, systematic ways of people relating to you, and I think there's a lot of experience that's thought to be different. And so, I felt uncomfortable with that. Okay. And then I also, the second thing I felt really uncomfortable with this was when you were saying that, maybe you need to clarify this, but it sounded like you were saying that Ursula is responsible for the racism and the classism and the homophobia and everything that she's experiencing. I am saying that. You are saying that. But I'm also saying that you are, too. I am, too. We're all responsible for this world, not just some of us, all of us.

[90:17]

I'm totally saying that. There's no irresponsible creatures in the universe. And I mean that in two words. One is we all contribute to anything good and anything harmful. We're all contributing to it. And also, we all have the ability, responsibility. We all respond to whatever happens. So we are responsible in the sense that we respond to whatever's going on. We're all responding to Iraq right now. We're all responding to racism. The question is, what is our response? And our response is our ability to respond, being demonstrated. And also, our response contributes to the ongoing situation. Global warming, racism, war, or peace, and ecological awareness, we're contributing to all that.

[91:26]

The good things at Casa High, we're all contributing to. We're all responsible. We're all responding to it. The problems at times are how we're all contributing to it, all responsible for it. That I am saying. But I'm also saying thank you for expressing it with Jesus Christ. And I'm responsible for that too. I contributed to you coming up here and saying this. And you're also responsible for coming up and saying this. And I appreciate it. Are you glad you came? Would you like to know how it was about what you said? Do you want to say anything here, Tony, about what you said? Yeah. I felt some of that in the beginning, but I was kind of vague. I worked it out. You can hear you. I did feel some of what she said in the beginning as well, and I thought within the beginning of the conversation felt that I was going to stay there until I worked that through for myself, and I felt that it worked itself through the conversation.

[92:40]

And I felt heard, and I felt seen. And I want to thank you for hanging in there with me and talking to us today. Thank you. I actually just wanted to take the opportunity to come while we're speaking with each other to address the point of earthling not being served or being missed being served. We've talked about it on multiple occasions in the Doe on Rio. We've all noticed. I don't know if other people, I think other people have also noticed. um and we came to the we came to the conclusion that it wasn't anyone's intention to miss her i said this to you yesterday that when this time is full there's an odd number of people so earthling is served by herself on the end when this time is full there's an even number of people so jeffrey is always in a pit um so

[94:01]

But that does not really explain, actually, an entire human being that's sitting there, hungry, waiting to be served, being continually missed. I just want us to take the opportunity to encourage everyone to be really aware of your intention to serve Earthling, particularly when you're approaching this time, before you zig-zag, but also to be aware of everybody. Thank you. And I would encourage you as you approach the word save to say liberate. I know it's difficult, but... Some books say save. I think most of them say save. I think they all say save. We didn't change... I'm the only one that has it written as liberate. What?

[95:03]

A red thing. You're encouraging us to... Just for this practice period. At the end of the practice period, I'll go to the adverse field and ask them if they could change that piece of paper, change it from saved to liberated from the paper. Of course, some of you won't read it, so anyway. I'm really okay with you saying saved. I don't mind. I feel a little embarrassed with this question. It's been such beautiful things happening here. I'm still stuck back at the Fox story. And Courtney's question about how these stories apply to today.

[96:13]

And I was very helped by Kathy's bringing up her experience of the story. Yes. But I do not understand Wang Bo slapping the teacher in this response. And I know there's no wasted images in these stories. and um i feel like there's something in there about liberation but i i can't see what's happening and what anyway um i feel kind of like unable to move on beyond that point for some reason you're uh you find yourself concerned with just slapping Yeah, I mean, not the slapping, it's, I mean, yes. I know that this is... Not the slapping, the what? Well, I know... What are you concerned about?

[97:14]

Well, I don't understand what that expression was. He said, come closer and I'll tell you. The teacher said that. No. It long ago went forward again, hit the teacher. I don't understand what's happening there. You don't understand what's happening there? No. And you kind of want to? Yeah. You do? Or, yeah. Come closer and I'll tell you. I won't dare to hit you. How are you going to know that? Come closer and I'll tell you. What did you find out? I don't know. You're gonna have to hit him. I won't, I won't. Interesting, you know. Somebody up there is looking at it, but I guess I'm not.

[98:34]

Now, yeah. What? Come back tomorrow, then. Yeah? Come back tomorrow. You'll be all right. Okay. Cats. Cats. So I've been a witness to Earthling being passed over in the serving, and I've talked with you about it and with Earthling about it and others. And I've been holding it as a kind of a mystery, as a question of what's going on. Knowing from just reading and what I've experienced is sometimes we do things unconsciously with respect

[99:39]

our places of fear or just our condition. Sometimes we do things unconsciously. And so I've been holding that maybe it was the length of the tongue, how people were situated, or maybe it was something else. And so when I just heard Sarah say that the Bedouins conversed about it and they determined that there was no intention to escape over Earthland, I wanted to say that, I guess I wanted to bring up that sometimes it can be unconscious intention, and that maybe it's not so important to say, this isn't happening because there's no intention. but that can be told that these things could be happening anyway, even if our intention is to be awake. And so I want to offer that and hear anything you have to say.

[100:42]

I agree with you. And as I said earlier, I don't think there's a self in the process, but I think we do get made into being a certain way, and we can't see the full extent of it. So we think we're just trying to serve everybody, but there's something about us that disregards somebody, and we're made to somebody who disregards them, who doesn't notice them. For various reasons, like fear, shame, all kinds of emotional places that cause us to not notice somebody. And we can also not notice that we're not noticing them. We can forget to invite somebody to the party and not notice that we actually were aware of the person when we considered who to invite, and we thought in our mind sort of crossed them off the list, but we didn't see our mind cross them off the list.

[101:47]

But there was no self in there saying, OK, let's invite these people and let's cross that person off. We were made into a person who has these intentions. and we're not fully aware of our intentions. However, the good news is, for me, that by being aware of our intentions, even if we are never aware of the full unconscious level, the unconscious level gets transformed by being aware of the conscious level. And not only to be aware of the conscious level, but to be aware of it quietly and nonviolently, So I kind of feel like the way people have dealt with this issue of Earthling not being served, and the way Earthling has come up and expressed her feelings of being disregarded, disrespected, hated, that this conversation, I feel, has been quite non-violent, even though I think there's fear throughout and pain throughout.

[102:49]

If we can keep developing our skills of preserving these things at the conscious level, of being willing to go and look at our conscious intention. Being willing to look at conscious intention transforms unconscious intention. which is the basis for new conscious intention, which, if we study those, continues to feed back into transforming the unconscious. The subliminal is transformed by attention to the liminal, or is the superliminal, I should say. The superliminal we are aware of, it's a small part of what our minds and bodies are doing, but by giving attention to that, and also to the teaching that attention to that transforms things beyond what we can ever see, and gives us new things to work with and study. So I feel good about this conversation. It's just an ongoing thing that we could bring this up, that we could become aware of this, that everybody in the pipe street now knows that this occurred, and saw how we handled it, and saw how we will continue to handle it,

[104:00]

I feel encouraged as an understudent. About this, as a general practice, I feel that there's been very courageous and calm attention to difficult topics among us during these three months. I'm very happy about it. And I know this is painful for you, so I feel like you've been sincere and serious about this, but you have not become violent. Which is nice, because you could have gotten really angry about it. It would have caused a lot of trouble. But you didn't. You just stayed with it and appreciated it. And it was you, too. And the Dawans, too. worked pretty hard, but we have not yet exhausted our study. And if we need to continue, I hope. As one of the people who did not serve Erkland, I thought that perhaps I should

[105:22]

come up and confess it and say that it certainly was not intentional, although there has, I'm sure there was some disregard there. If Rev had been sitting on that end seat, I would have seen him and I would have served him. Or a person was sitting in this seat. You would have thought, hey, what's she doing there? That's right. Actually, you might have been so shocked that you forget to serve her. At lunch, I'll sit down there. You sit over here today. See what happens. To put that issue to rest, I do want to say that I have failed to serve the cenotron more times than I forgot to serve you.

[106:27]

The other thing I wanted to... How many times did you fail to serve the cenotron? Oh, two or three. That's a good point. Thank you. Yes. The other thing I wanted to bring up was this lamp. Yes, I was hoping you would. The point that I was thinking about yesterday was something about perhaps, and I had to sit over there for a long time, was that even though it's not lit, it's still shining. and to have some sort of zen dialogue with the teacher about I've read a lot of stories in the past.

[107:53]

This is a very traditional way of getting instruction. and testing one's abilities. And so my question today is, is that sort of coming up and questioning the teacher, do you think that that is still a good way of having a good time? How about you? It's not bad. Yeah, not bad. Yeah, I think this is like love at first sight. I agree. I agree. And I thought that was wonderful yesterday that I came away with the lamp as the prize, and today I've got a lit lamp. Yeah, and it was wonderful that you came up to get your prize. If you don't come, it's hard for me to give you the prize. Yes. So it was wonderful.

[108:54]

I will come again. You're a real Zen man. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Just take care of the land. I will. Can you stand this? Thank you. Thank you.

[109:22]

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