I still want to look one more time at the previous case. And just... The previous case is... Rūlāśan says to Niyanto, When arising and vanishing go on unceasingly, what then? Or, what about when arising and vanishing go on unceasingly? So, he's meditating on... impermanence. So when meditating on permanence, when you're tuning into unceasing, rising and falling, how is that? How does that happen? And Yanto says, whose arising and vanishing is it? So, I thought one way to typify what this is, this case is about a meditation on impermanence, and then it's a selfless, then it teaches a selfless meditation on impermanence.

[01:15]

Okay? Or you might say it's meditation on impermanence, And then it's an upright meditation on impermanence, a balanced meditation on impermanence, characterized by whose arising and falling is it. And in conjunction with this case, This case is cited in a fascicle by Dogen called the Ocean Seal Samadhi. Ocean seal in the sense of the seal, the imprint, or the circle, or the mudra. Seal in the sense of mudra. Sagara mudra samadhi. And there too he talks about how various elements of existence arise and vanish and tries to teach this selfless way of watching the arising and ceasing of events.

[02:34]

And Dogen Zenji sort of like spins around this event of the appearance and disappearance of phenomena from all different angles and in such a way that he kind of shows them the turning, constantly turning, pivoting way of meditating on the arising and falling of things. So this case is a good kind of like... This case presents the way now to enter into the next case, or all cases, kind of an attitude of, you know, watching these words come up and go away. But, you know, when you say, who's arising? Who's arising is it?

[03:38]

Or who's arising and vanishing is it? to try to develop this selfless meditation, selfless attitude towards the arising and vanishing. And then we go to the next case, which is in a way very different. So here we'll have things arising and vanishing, lots of complexities. arising and vanishing, not just a simple, in some sense, the previous case is rather abstract, arising and vanishing of concrete things, right? Feelings, emotions, perceptions, colors, sounds, smells, tastes, touches, touchables. So this is kind of like an abstract presentation of experience. Now, this case is a little bit more colorful. A monk asked Master Qingyang, Bo.

[04:54]

A dragon king comes out of the sea. Sky and earth are tranquil. How is direct presentation? Master said, the Garuda, king of birds, takes command of the universe. Who can stick his head out here? The monk said, suppose one suddenly appears, then what? Xingyang said, it's like a falcon catching a pigeon. If you don't realize, check in front of the tower. Then for the first time, you'll know the real. The monk said, if so, then I'll fold my hands on my chest and retreat three paces.

[06:03]

Xingyang said, you blind turtle under the seat of Mount Sumeru. Don't wait for another scarring from a wrap on the head. In this case, right away, I think we need to read the commentaries because there's illusions here which you don't know about. You have to understand that That they're bringing up, both of them start off by bringing up allusions to past stories. Okay? So the first allusion is the dragon king comes out of the sea and he's, well actually that's not an allusion, I don't think.

[07:10]

Let's read the commentary. Chang Master Ching Po of Xiangyang, this is the guy in this case, of Xingyang Mountain in Ying Province, succeeded to Dayang Mingan. Mingan had 15 successors, but all of them died before he did. Later, Later through Fushan, Yunzhen, he got Master Xing of Tozu. Tozu. This is an interesting story in the history of Soto Zen, by the way. this succession. I'll tell you the story of the succession later.

[08:12]

It's a very unusual one. Qingyang was one of the 15. Thus he was the elder brother of Qing. The monk's question is like the contest of Lao Cha Cha and Sariputra at the time of the establishment of the Jetavana Grove. Lathaca made a dragon appear in order to harm Sariputra. Sariputra produced a Garuda which caught the dragon and rent it open and ate it. A dragon is the greatest of scaled creatures. But nonetheless, the Garuda eats nothing but dragons. So, Garudas are therefore guardian spirits of Buddhism, because they can even eat dragons.

[09:28]

Than the mythical creature, the Garuda? What? The mythical creature? Is it a mythical creature? Yeah, I mean, is there a bird, Garuda, and... As Tetris, I don't really know exactly how that worked out, at what level this contest with Shariputra. There are... So dragons and Garudas, exactly how they existed in the olden times and how they exist today, I don't have much, I don't really have much direct experience of them, but any time, any day, I may. People give me dragons quite frequently, little pictures of dragons and statues of dragons, and I have some pictures and pennants of Garudas, so, you know, a real Garuda, a real dragon may visit me any day, and then Perhaps he'll visit at the same time and we can see what happens.

[10:33]

But so far I've never really had direct experience of a living Garuda or a living dragon in the form of, you know, a scaled creature. So it's a mythical Chinese bird, is what you're saying? They're not Indian, actually. Indians have... The Garudas are first from India. They migrated to China along with the Buddhist monks. That's useful. so the when the master brings up this Garuda thing he's the first part the first interchange relates to this mythological I don't know what to call it this myth that dragons are great but Garudas can eat them Doesn't mean Gurudas are better than dragons, but they just, they eat them anyway.

[11:41]

The thing that eats everything else is sometimes called the king. The dragons were kings, but then the Gurudas ate them. And since the Gurudas were on the side of the Buddhists, the Gurudas became Buddhist protectors. The next story is a little bit more complicated. Lord Ping Yuan, the Lord of Ping Yuan, Zhao Sheng, served as minister for the kings of Hui Wan, for kings Hui Wan and Xiao Chen of the kingdom of Zhao. When you people who don't necessarily know that much about Romanized Chinese. See that? Z-H-A-O. How do you pronounce it? Huh? Does that make sense? Would you say Zhao? What did you say?

[12:46]

I say Zhao, but I wondered if you didn't hear me say it, how you would say it. If you just saw Z-H-A-O. You'd say Zhao? Huh? Huh? How would you say it? Zhao. Zhao. That's pretty good. Because if you see, if you see C, if you see C-H-A-O, how would you say that? Zhao. Yeah. See, they used to, the ones in the Romanization system is C-H-A-O, and this one's Z-H-A-O, or Zhao. The Z is closer, isn't it? ZH is closer than CH a little bit. What about J? Well, there's problems with J in this case. I don't know if I can explain it, but sometimes they do do J. I don't think they ever found J-A-O.

[13:47]

I don't think they never do J-A-O. They do J-I-A-O or J-I-A-N. It's not quite, maybe I do it lazily, maybe jiao is closer than jiao. Anyway, it sounds to me like j-h-a-o comes closer than c, because people, most Western people, Americans, when they say c, it's called ch, right? It's too much. Q here is actually more like ch. But anyway, so here we are back in Zhao province. At his home, he built a multi-story tower which faced the homes of the populace. Among the people was a lame man. A handsome man laughed at him. And the lame man asked for the head of the handsome one.

[14:47]

The Lord agreed, but didn't act. Half his house guests left. The Lord beheaded a convict, but the guest adamantly refused to come. So finally, he cut off the head of the handsome man who had laughed at the lame man and hung it in front of the tower to prove it was real. After a year, the guests gathered. So the way I would understand this story is something like this. you have a royal or imperial minister who has his own court scene. And I guess the etiquette of the land is... I would think probably that the...

[15:49]

that this lame person wasn't a commoner, that this lame person was someone of some stature, for whom losing face was a matter of life and death. So the handsome or elegant man who teased him violated a code of honor And at that time in China, it was normal to behead somebody who violated the honor system. So the man had right to, he was not of order for him to go to the minister and ask for the head of the person who went against the ethics of the society, at least at that high level of the society. However, the minister didn't act.

[16:56]

And so his houseguests left in protest for him not being upright about this situation. So in an attempt to regain his scene, he beheads a criminal but that's not what the lame man asked for. So still his scene couldn't be reassembled. So then he actually beheaded the properly accused person and put his head out in front so people could see that this time he was in earnest and not playing any games. Still, it took a while for people to forgive him for his laziness and deception, but finally they reassemble.

[18:02]

Now, for this part of the story, I think we have enough. Okay? Now, your job is to see our job is to be upright in this discussion. And from this upright position, what comes to you about a monk coming up to a teacher and saying that a dragon king comes out of the water, out of the sea, and the earth and the sky, the dragon king comes out of the sea and the sky and the earth are tranquil. Okay? He's presenting the situation. You get the image? Got the ocean, the beach, the sky.

[19:09]

Here comes the dragon king up on the beach. The sky and the earth are tranquil. Okay? Now, what about at that time, in such a situation, What about, it literally says, what about face-to-face confrontation or meeting? What about meeting face-to-face? Can you tune into this image, this situation? Okay, so, first of all, now we have a little quiz. What is it when the dragon king or queen emerges from the sea and the earth and the sky are tranquil?

[20:10]

What is that? Where is it? It's dramatic. What? It's dramatic. All right, to me, it was like thoughts are coming up and the being, just noting them. You don't get caught up in it, but that's what this is, the air on the line and trying to go up. I miss, like, being there. The dragon is having no effect. Really? The dragon is having no effect. Well, it seems like...

[21:12]

You know, this case is describing the relation between the student and the teacher. There seem to be these parallels between the guest and the host, or the, again, the layman and the guest and the man, or the, you know, the root of it, the geranium. And so, it seems to me that the Bunker's talking about itself as the student in relation to the teachers. In the first line he's talking about that? Talking about the first line? Uh-huh. Huh? That's what I thought, yeah. Or is the student teacher a relationship from the first line? Well, he's, you know, in the presence of the teacher. Oh. I love it. You find a place of peace and you think that you... It's like a hive, got it?

[22:31]

And as soon as you grasp some conclusion of it, some greater good, some greater truth, you feel it aligned. Well, I think what you said is true, but does it apply to the first line? Yes. He's making it very clear by saying that. Hopefully. Well, here's what I think. I think that this first line is coming up out of the previous case. Okay? So, observing things happening, rising and falling, And being upright and selfless, upright and selfless, upright and selfless means upright equals selfless, right?

[23:34]

Being upright, now, you come out of that. You don't stay in, you don't stay there in that uprightness like it's a state. You just find uprightness in the midst of the waves of the sea. Constantly, the waves are coming up and down, right? And you're not attached to that situation, you're upright. Now, come out of that. Coming out of this is a dragon. This is a dragon. All right? Coming out of that, the presence of the uprightness calms the land and the sky. Then you meet something.

[24:37]

Then coming up out of this, coming up out of this calm in the middle of activity, not just calm in some calm place, but calm in the unceasing turbulence of the ocean, coming up out of that, Not attached to it. Selfless in the midst. Not attached to the waves. Not attached to a state of peace in the waves. And this calms the land and sky. The dragon. Now how about meeting this dragon? Or how about this dragon meeting another dragon? Okay? Now that's what I see. Can you dig that? He says the dragon king. This seems like a slightly different twist than just another dragon. Yeah, this is, well, dragon king, yeah, dragon king. Like, this isn't just an ordinary dragon. This is a dragon that's... A lot of dragons are playing around in the water, but some dragons are really present.

[25:39]

The king, you know, the king is the dragon that sits still. All the other dragons start jumping around the king dragon, the queen dragon, okay? This is the... World honored dragon. This is the motionless dragon. This is the high status dragon. Now, this world-honored one doesn't mean this is the only world-honored one. There's only one king dragon. But this is a royal, this is a king dragon. This is a sovereign. This is a sovereign dragon. This is a sovereign being in the ocean. When a sovereign being comes out of the ocean, you know what happens? Have you ever seen him come out of the ocean? When they come out of the ocean, the lion goes, this guy. Big green carpet comes out.

[26:41]

You know? And they go, but it's very calm and present. It's not hysterical that everybody's falling all over each other and the buglers sticking their bugles in people's ears and stuff. It's like they're present. Here comes the dragon. Now, what about this dragon meeting somebody? Is this dragon gonna meet an inferior? Direct presentation. Face to face. Meeting face to face. Kind of like, you know, eye to eye dragon meeting dragon. Maybe two dragons come out at the same time. Maybe there's a dragon waiting already in a little grass hut. Here comes the dragon. What's it like when this dragon meets somebody face to face? What's that? And Master says, the Garuda, king of the birds, takes command of the universe.

[28:14]

Who can stick their head out here? So this is his comment on what it's like when they meet. Sticking your head out. You know, sticking your head out where? In this meeting, you know. You come in to meet, you know, face to face. But, you know, you're going to stick your head out. You're going to come to a meeting and go, be careful. There's a guru somewhere around here. They can gobble up these dragons that are coming to meet. Got these dragons coming to meet, right? There's a Garuda there. These dragons, they come to meet, but they better not stick their heads out. They better not expose themselves in this meeting. Otherwise, the dragon's boss is going to eat them up.

[29:21]

Waiting for a dragon to eat. So there's a lot to work with right here in these first two lines. And I kind of feel like we're going on to the next. So to me it seems like you've got to master these first two lines before you can, not before you can't, but before we see the test. We're kind of setting the stage here. The monk is talking about this situation where, in some sense, an enlightened being is coming to meet another one. And then the teacher describes what it's like. He wants to know what it's like, and the teacher describes what it's like. So now, tell me what you think.

[30:23]

What's the teacher talking about? I gave you my idea of what it's like for the enlightened being to emerge and come to meet. Now, what's the teacher say it's like? Yes. This going from the previous case with the rising and vanishing, it seemed a bit more, if you say, abstract. This is like the rising and then it describes like a flame around. Oh, this seems kind of like combative. Combative? Combative. Like war, like in, I get more sense that there's a flame before the vanishing again. There's going to be what? Playing. You're going to play before they vanish? Yeah. And how do they play? That's what this is about. Right. And so how, when the dragon comes out of the water, and this dragon has enough presence to calm the land and the sky,

[31:26]

This dragon is coming from the sea, coming from turbulence, and is calm in the turbulence. Matter of fact, it's a full-scale, autonomous calm in the turbulence. Now coming into the land to meet, coming out of the sea to meet another dragon. And Jennifer says she feels that they're going to play now. I say, yeah, they are going to play. How do they play? Somehow I'm thinking of the verse, the slightest distinction between heaven and earth. They play as one. As long as they come up and meet and there's no one sticking their head out, then it's one. Right, nobody sticks their head out, right. You better come to meet. You come selfless. And you better stay selfless. But you might be selfless by yourself. But when you come to meet another, your self might stick out.

[32:31]

But if you stick out, the dragon sticks out his head, the Garuda's going to get it. What is the Garuda? The Garuda eats any dragon that sticks her head out. What does the Garuda do for the world? Punishes the wicked. Who are the wicked? Who are the evil ones? People who laugh at the lame? Yeah, people who laugh at the lame person. Or people who stick their head out. When he's selflessness, the guru will get you. Even if you're a dragon king. Stick your head out, the guru... You don't mean selflessness. You don't mean selflessness. Yeah. Selflessness. No. If you're selfish, self-clinging, the Guru will get you.

[33:35]

You're selfish. You're selfish, the Guru will get you. That's sticking your head out. I don't understand how these... I don't know where you got the other dragon they're going to meet in these sentences. Pardon? I don't understand where you got the other dragon. Oh, because... Because... Clearly translated... Do you have direct... Direct presentation? Do you have that? That's his translation of face-to-face meeting. You know... Oh, another dragon. That's a direct... Okay. Another translation would be face-to-face meeting. Okay, so that leads me to think, we're talking about, you're presenting yourself, you're coming out of the water, right? Here you come, out of the water, tranquil, present. You're going to present yourself. Well, to who? To some other face. You're going to present your face to another face. Okay? You're going to meet an equal, basically. So if you're a dragon, you're going to meet a dragon.

[34:37]

Or a dragoness. Or a dragini. Why isn't the other... Or a dragster. Why isn't it in the face of the Garuda? Pardon? Why isn't the dragon presenting directly to the Garuda? I don't think dragons and Garudas, you know, have a, you know, peaceful concourse. Well, but isn't that just because the Master said the Garuda takes command of the Earth? I mean, maybe the dragon... This is directly presenting, and it's fine to present to the Garuda. Okay, present to the Garuda, that's fine too. And the Garuda can take the form of whatever, all right? In other words, you come out of the water, all spiffy and awake, all right? Calming heaven and earth with your presence, okay? And then you're going to meet somebody. But isn't the Master just saying us to sort of

[35:41]

Like, um, catch them up in this, just sort of, well, to kind of disarm them, or catch them apart or something, to surprise them. Maybe, but I think he's also giving them instruction. He's also telling them, well, if you come to meet, well, come to meet me, But if you're coming to meet, there's a dragon somewhere. Either I'm the... There's a Garuda. Either I'm the Garuda, or in meeting me, there's a Garuda up above us. And if you make one false move and stick your head out, the Garuda's going to get somebody. Okay, so... And maybe get both of us. Because once he sees you, he might realize there's somebody else in there with a gull in both of them. Anyway, I think you've given him a warning. The monk says, I want to meet. How do I meet? Teacher says, okay, there's some big boss around here. It's the boss that catches its reality, that scoops up and punishes, and he solves klingon. Okay. Okay? Now, you could be meeting that boss, or just meeting an ordinary person.

[36:44]

The boss could be, you know, watching you meet the master. So it isn't exactly the master punishes you, the master is kind of a you and the master meeting as equals, reality is going to test you, really. And if you don't meet the master right, reality will punish you. So even if the master beats you up, it's not the master beating you up, it's the Garuda making the master into his puppet. But anyway, if you're coming to meet, you're making yourself vulnerable, and you better be careful. You're making yourself vulnerable to feedback on any kind of leaning or any kind of self-centeredness. Garudas take care of that. Garudas are protecting the Dharma. They're Dharma protectors. Is Garuda like the law of karma? The law of karma? That's part of what protects the Buddha Dharma, but more than the law of karma, I think it's also the efficacy of Dharma.

[37:46]

That it's not just law of karma, but it's that teaching will go on here. You'll get taught through the Garuda that will teach you if you stick your head out. Yes? The Garuda's teaching you from getting stuck right there, performing an act of kindness when they do that. Would you say that again? They perform an act of kindness and not actually punishment. Dharma punishment is kindness. When the Dharma punishes you, that's compassion. It's Dharma, it's educational. Definitely kindness. Yes? Always kindness. I think it's about when the Buddha comes up inside of you. Yes. Right. So, when the Buddha comes up inside you, they're not about meeting face to face. When the Buddha comes up in you and your face turns into a Buddha face or a dragon face, how do you take this face to meet someone? By staying still. No. Don't stay still. You're already still.

[38:49]

You've got to move now. You've got to come out of the water and meet somebody. If you stay still, you stick your head out. You're going to get shot. You can't hold on to stillness. Sorry. Oh, you're holding good. You're going to get it. Here comes the Garuda. Oh, I got you. Feel it? The fangs. I disagree with you. Huh? I disagree with you. Huh? It's okay. You can disagree with me, but you're done for. Going down to the counter. You still disagreeing? Yeah. Go ahead. What do you think? I think in this situation that if the Buddha comes up inside of you, that you have to be still and you have to be vulnerable. And then it's the vulnerability and the openness that allows it to occur.

[39:53]

Yes. Okay. So now, what, you want to start this case now? Mm-hmm. Okay. So, shall we? That's before this case starts, is what you're talking about. Just talking about the dragon coming out of the water. Come out of the water. Come out of there. Don't stay there. Come on. And now let's meet. And so how is it when you meet? Like this. There's more stuff coming here. This is just a warm-up. This is just kind of like setting the stage as first two lines. Do you understand? I don't know. I think so. So what do you think? Tell me what you think is going on. Well, I think what you mean is that then when the person leans...

[40:56]

When leaning occurs. Oh, when leaning occurs, what? When leaning occurs. Yeah, when leaning occurs, then what? Well, then the Garuda grabs you. Right. So, and leaning is not meeting face to face. Leaning is sticking your face in the other person's mouth. It's not meeting. It's leaning into them. It's like pushing them back or trying to get a hold of them. This is meeting where you're autonomous, she's autonomous, you recognize each other, you don't lean into each other or lean away from each other, you assert yourself and meet the other person. Okay, that's meeting. Okay? Without sticking your head out. You stick your head out, the kind of like Dharma tester that Garuda is going to like throw you for a loop. And at that time you got to go back before this case starts, go back into the water, you know, and find your place in the water, settle down.

[41:59]

When you're settled and you come back out again as a Buddha, whatever, not to meet. And then if you stick your head out again, kind of go back in the water and settle down again. And then come out, and you come out, and if you did your homework, you come out on the sky and the earth are calm, and then you meet. Now, if you're not careful and you stick your head out, the sky and the earth are going to start not to calm anymore. They're going to turn into big raptors. What do you call it? Velociraptors. Come swooping in, and see what happens in the next moment. Yes? When I first read it, I thought that... Already the presentation means sticking your head out. Like, already the appearance of the triadum would be sticking the head out. Because the master says it right afterwards, like, who can stick his head out there?

[43:01]

Like, who could do such a thing? And then also the next line says, suppose one suddenly appears. So I thought that the appearance of the triadum also would be sticking the head out. I think that the next line is what you say. Then he says, then the monk says, well, what if you do stick your head out? The teacher's not saying that necessarily, not necessarily you have to stick your head out, but if you do stick your head out, the guru is going to get you. And the monk says, well, what if you do stick your head out? What if someone suddenly does stick her head out? And then he tells what happens. Well, the question that came up to me is, can you appear without sticking your head out in a situation like this? Maybe you can't. Maybe you can't appear. But still there is this issue of meeting. Maybe you can meet without appearing. Maybe you can come out of the water without appearing.

[44:03]

And come out of the water and meet without necessarily sticking your head out. Anyway, you can stick your head out in this dangerous situation, right? So then the monk says, well, what if you do stick your head out? What if you do up here? And the teacher says, well, if you do that, you know, it's going to be like a falcon coming in and grabbing a dove or a pigeon. Then you're saying appearance itself is leaning. I mean, if appearance is sticking your head out. No, I'm not saying necessarily it is, but I'm saying I could go along with, if you're saying that, almost. If you do say that appearance is leaning, then I would say it was possible to come out without leaning. It's possible to come forward without leaning. It's possible to come forward and move, continue to be upright, the way you were before you had to come to meet somebody.

[45:14]

But some people can be quite upright and present by themselves. But when they enter into interpersonal situations, they start leaning. So the interpersonal tests the intrapersonal, the intrapsychic. Intrapsychically, you may be able to be upright. In working with your own, you know, self. With another dragon, you might not have, like, some people can stand on their head, right? If you're standing on your head, you're maintaining, you're achieving balance in the middle of lots of dynamics, lots of forces, right? Also standing up on your feet, same thing, but we're used to that. But anyway, standing on your feet or standing on your head you're balancing in the middle of various forces. Or juggling, you know.

[46:17]

You keep the ball going with lots of different things going on. But some people are juggling three balls, you can throw them a fourth ball and they can handle it. Because they have, they're just juggling three balls, but they have deep skill in that three ball, that three ball juggling. Another person is juggling three balls and that's all they can do. If you throw them a fourth, they'll drop them. So you may be able to be present in your situation, but if someone comes up to you and says, boo, you lose it because you just, you know, you can just handle this. So if you just handle this, can you go before there's deep in it? Can you have a reservoir to have more than that? Then if you come forward, you'll probably blow it. Well, then you go back and deepen, you know, it wasn't deep enough, I wasn't stable enough, I wasn't present enough. The slightest test and I blew it. All of that was pretty good.

[47:21]

And so the student comes with some stability to meet and then get some energy and that heat of the energy is met in a balanced way, or the energy shows that you have to deepen. And you go back and deepen, then come back again. Go back and deepen and, you know... Work on yourself, by yourself more. So, in fact, does that make sense to you? Can you imagine that? You're doing pretty well by yourself and then you get up and even standing up sometimes from sitting. Sometimes you can get up from sitting and you don't lose it. You can walk a little bit and you do. Sometimes you get up and you stand and you don't lose it. You walk a little bit and you don't lose it. Then as soon as somebody says, who are you, you lose it. Or as soon as you say to somebody, who are you, you lose it. A lot of people are calm in their body, but as soon as they speak, they lose it.

[48:30]

or balanced physically, but when they speak, they lose it. Then also to listen to somebody else is a further thing, and then to listen and speak at the same time. To do all that and stay present and balanced is a deeper realization of balance. Are you saying, I guess, what's happening in those two literal sentences? The teacher's response is like a falcon catching a pigeon. I'm saying they're talking about this and they're doing it too. So the monk's saying, what about when you stick your head out? And he sticks his head out. And the teacher says, it's like a falcon swooping in and getting a dub. And he also says, if you don't realize, check in front of the tower, then for the first time, you'll know the real.

[49:42]

What's that about? Yeah, the head is, you know, on a post in front of the tower, right? So what does it mean to check in front of the tower, do you think? So he could be, the teacher could be talking to him up and saying, if you don't realize, check in front of the tower. He's saying, what happens if I stick my head out? What if someone sticks their head out? Huh? Right. So how do you check in front of the tower to see if it's your head? How do you check in front of the tower to see if it's true that you've been decapitated? How do you check? If you do stick your head out, how do you check to see if it got cut off? Where's the front of the tower? Where's the head? The head is not where you are.

[50:54]

That's one of the powers. You need to join it again. As soon as you step out to look at your identity, your head's going back. In. In. You're not sticking your head out. If you're checking... to see if that's your head. I don't mean to suggest that this image or that image is correct or incorrect. I don't want to get that impression. I'm more like trying to gesture towards use your imagination to use your imagination. to enter this story, okay?

[52:00]

And everybody's, you're doing that, but I don't want to, I don't want to give the impression like somebody's going to get the right answer or something, the right image, okay? The meaning is not in the words, okay? But it responds to you bringing your imagination to this, to this, to this picture of Dragon coming in. I mean, falcon coming in, taking his head off. Like, falcon. The head's off. And now, go check in front of the tower, like in that story. To see if the correct, you know, person has been decapitated. I hear a tower right here, up where I sit. Mm-hmm. and also the place that meets where the people can come and see.

[53:02]

So, your upright sitting is also your presentation, without sticking your head out. But it's also the place where any kind of biases will be demonstrated, will be shown. Is that a sign that you've become selfish, that your head has been decapitated, if that arises? Not necessarily. If you have been decapitated, so to speak, then checking itself, you could check whether you've been decapitated or not. If you hadn't been decapitated, why would you mind checking? If you have been decapitated, you might mind checking, but you probably should check just to see what's going on.

[54:06]

So in either case, checking is okay. I think checking is just investigating to see what's going on, to check to see what happened, what's happening. Has your head been cut off recently? Well, if you think so, check. And if you don't, if you're not sure, check. And if you're sure you haven't, check too. In any case, check in front of the tower to see if you find your head on a stick. I keep getting the images in the mirror. And if your head's been cut off, then everything that you see would feel separate. If your head's cut off, everything you see would feel separate? You mean like your head's like over here, and then even if you look back at your own body, it feels separate, like that to me?

[55:23]

I wasn't developing the image. The image in the mirror kept coming up, and it kept getting cut off, and it's separate from you. So it seemed to me everything would act as a mirror, and it would feel separate. Is there any caffeine in this tea? Say it again. It doesn't have to be logical. I didn't say it would be logical. I'd like to see where this mirror thing is coming from and going to. The head's taken off. And now there's something... And now this thing about a mirror is coming up. Yeah, the tower.

[56:28]

Pardon? The tower. Here is this mirror. Oh, the tower is a mirror. Yeah. So the head's in front of the mirror tower, the tower mirror. And we're looking at the head, which is separate from you. Right? Looking at your own head, so to speak. Well, but everything, the thing that came to my mind was that in that case, if such a hat was cut off, to check to see whether or not your hat was cut off or whatever, it would look like things were separate. But if it looks like they were separate, would you understand that they were a mirror? Yeah. You would? Well, I would think that if you're looking at this... Well, I don't know if it's anything... I don't know if it's anything to do with this girl.

[57:28]

It does. It does. That's how you tell. You have everything from here. And from here it looked like things were separate. That's how you tell. You tell what? That your head didn't come out? Mm-hmm. Well, let's let that sink in on some of the slower brains here. One thing I want to mention before it's too late, and that is that when the head's put out in front and people can come and see the head, that the guests come back. If the head should be taken off and it's not taken off, the guests leave. Once the head's been removed and put out in front where people can see it, all is, you know, rectified. So even though you have your head taken off, if it's put out in the front and it's really the right head, the head that should have been cut off, then everybody's happy and people come back.

[58:32]

So having your head cut off is not that bad, in a way, if it should be cut off. It should be cut off and it should be shown. And then everybody's happy and you start over again. It's like repentance. Huh? It's like repentance, right. They want repentance. Is the handsome man happy, though? Is the handsome man happy? He's a dead happy guy. Because the code was not broken, the honor code was kept. Yeah, and he is the vehicle for everybody to get back together. He didn't actually split things up. It wasn't his fault that everybody, that all this, what do you call it, all this problem occurred. I mean, he was part of it. But so was the lame man part of it, and so was the Lord part of it. The problem was the Lord didn't cut his head off. That would cause a big disturbance. But once his head was cut off, harmony was reestablished. So this cutting the head off is not so bad. It actually rectifies the situation.

[59:34]

The head must be cut off. Once this thing has happened, you can't not cut the head off. He didn't want to cut the head off for whatever reasons. Maybe it was his boyfriend. I don't know. Anyway, he didn't want to cut the head off, but that doesn't work. It causes a big strike, right? It had to be cut off. And he cut somebody else's head off. That didn't help either. You can't avoid the Dharma. But once the Dharma happens, even though your head cuts off, things are rectified. The story's not over yet, though. Yes? Well, it's like not resisting. And sometimes you talk about just acting directly. And that's what it seems like it's talking to. Yeah. Yes? What you were talking about, it sounded like three different people. The king and the handsome man and the... the correct head. And it sounded to me at the same time, it's the same person. And then, so, I put it out there, and it's chopped off. I'm embarrassed, so I take Petrus' head and present it as the problem.

[60:39]

But it's still me, I'm still the king deciding to do that. And then when I put my head out there, then it's natural again. So all three heads have kind of became... Yeah, and in direct meeting, it's really just one thing. It's not too great two things meeting. And I think this thing about Tia, I somehow feel that there's something important about the mirror that Tia brought up. I just don't know where to put the mirror or what it is. It's a three-way mirror. It's a three-way mirror. I've got an instrument that's based on self-advocacy, the egotism of self-advocacy. And the mirror, I would imagine the mirror is the photography that's so connected to the other. With Blackton Gett, James Blakely. And that brings you back together.

[61:43]

That's sort of another way of chopping off the head and so on. What's another way to chop your head off? The mirror served in a way, at least that's what I've heard, that it served the same. The mirror is what gets your head chopped off or the mirror is chopping it? The mirror served the same role as chopping the head off. It was just chopping the head off as a way of saying, you know, come back to uprightness. The mirror kind of chops the head off, because you said it the other way, when the head's chopped off, there's a mirror. She's saying when there's a mirror, it's kind of like chopping the head off. Because it's kind of like when you put a mirror out there, your head's chopped off, kind of, it's over in the mirror. Right? You were saying more when the head gets chopped off, the head's a mirror. Like... Hmm? How are you saying it?

[62:44]

The head is chopped off and then you see everything as separate like a mirror. Is that what you said? Yes. In a sense, a mirror chops our head off, doesn't it? It puts our head outside of our head. In a sense, a mirror gives us a head. And it gives us a head, gives us another head. Stuart? And also we can see if you've got a head on top of her. Yeah, you can understand if you see it that way. Now I'm not necessarily ready for the next line, but I just have to jump to it now, okay? So now the monk says this strange thing. He says, well, then I'll put my hands in shastra, right, like this. If so, then I'll do this and take three steps back, which is like a, you know, Chinese way of departing.

[63:48]

You know, you go like this, you open and you take three steps backwards and leave. Okay? And then the teacher says, calls him a blind turtle or whatever. Please, don't wait around for another scarring or a rap on your head. This story is... It's okay, we've got the story, okay? We're not done with the story, but basically, what this story is giving us a chance for, I feel... There's a chance to, first of all, practice what the previous story taught us, namely, in the midst of, like this class, have you noticed that things have been rising and falling constantly? Have you kept track of that? Has there been constant appearing and vanishing unceasingly in this class?

[64:51]

Have you been there with that? Have you been, you know, who's arising and vanishing while all this stuff has been happening? Maybe sometimes you were, maybe sometimes you forgot. Now, this arising and vanishing is, you know, in terms of what we know is primarily images, you know, arising and vanishing. Images of sounds, images of smells, images of taste, images of your body, images of emotions, images of judgments, all this stuff's coming up so you can know it. We have to open to the energy of this imagery coming up. And there's some dynamic and uncertain and unpleasant and painful aspect here of this imagery.

[65:55]

There's some ambivalence in it. Maybe not for all of you, but for me, there's some ambivalence. I don't want to encourage you to try to get a hold of this stuff. I don't want to have you not participate. So you have been participating, but I don't want you to get over to use these images as some way to grasp. So how can you enter into this imaginative process here? which is going on, and hear kind of the anxiety and the suffering in the process of this imagination. How can I hear the suffering and anxiety when trying to understand Tia's thing with the mirror? or Barbara's thing with the mirror, or Kirk's thing with the heads coming around, all the different images, which I hear you're saying these things, and I'm getting these images, and there's an anxiety or an easiness.

[67:09]

How can I really listen to you and take this in and continue to be upright and yet not reject what you're saying? And yet not lose track of myself. How can I stay balanced in the midst of this magic process that we're feeding each other This story provides an opportunity for this to happen, but this is like taking the practice of the previous case and bringing it into an actual dynamic imaginative process that we're in all the time, but that we're in using the images of this case. And each of us is using the images of this case in different ways. And yet, even if we speak, our different ways of imagining are affecting each other and being reinterpreted and back and forth like this. And then again, how do you meet under such circumstances? And what is the guiding principle in this process of imagination, in studying the process of imagination?

[68:15]

The guiding principle has various names, you know, but what really is it? Who's to say? Who's to say? I don't think anybody's to say. But I ask these questions, and then I invite you into the realm where the questions are being asked. And then you can say whatever you want, but that's not like you're the one who gets to say it. It's like it has been said that no one gets to say, that no one knows what Zazen is. That no one gets to say, this is it. I mean, people can say that. You all still can say it right now, this is it. But it isn't that you then establish some kind of something that holds And this realm is the realm where we meet.

[69:33]

This realm of chaotic imagery and expressing ourselves in the midst of this imagery which then stimulates other people's imagery and they back to us and back and forth. How do we find our place in the middle of all that? So I'm presenting this case, I'm bringing this case up to you in a very different way from the last case. And I myself have a much different feeling about what's going on now than in the first four meetings of this class and for this previous case. So I think now we're entering into how we, how do you call it, how we mutually co-create each other. And that's where we meet.

[70:36]

And that's where the anxiety is highest. And soon this class will be over and we all can get back in our cages and we'll know, well, there's one wall, another wall, another wall, another wall. Or we can not get back in our cages and walk out of here not knowing too much. Maybe the people who drive back to San Francisco should get back in their cages so you don't drive off the road. But everybody else conceivably could just like you know, not get back in your nest. Maybe you already have gotten back in your nest. Maybe I have too. But I think I feel like maybe we got out of our nest for a little while tonight So the dragon, so we find our place in the sea, we come out calmly, and when we meet, we lose our nest.

[71:47]

We meet nestless, not knowing what's going on. And yet, plenty is going on. Lots of images are flying up all the time and going away. Finding our home there without grabbing it. Finding our place in the middle of this dynamic imaginative process. Does that home have characteristics that you could name? It has limitless characteristics, but they're like flying by, you know. You wouldn't, you would not be able, if you told people your address, then a second later it wouldn't apply.

[72:52]

You know, if you told people your address was, you know, it's something too biased. My address is om mune mune maha munaye svaha. So I said, oh yeah, that's the mantra from Shakyamuni Buddha. That must be your address. What? I mean, what are you talking about? Now my address is Kirk's face. Now my address is Fu's face. So, you know, those really are my address. But that's currently my home. But it's not really a nest. It doesn't have any, like, sides on it. It's more like a conveyor belt. You know? So it's not like there's nothing there, there's no characteristics, but they're flying by. And you might say, well, that's a pretty good one.

[73:53]

This one's not so good. That's more like it. But, you know, they're just zipping by. And you may like your current address, but it's not your address, because you'll soon find out. So when you think it's your nest, it's chocolate? See, definitely. But you don't even have to think it's your nest. You can just sort of like cuddle in there a little bit. You can sort of think it with your body being kind of like, feeling like, this is it. That'll cut you off too. Now, I don't really know, you know, how many people in this room are like, in kind of like open anxiety now. And can hear you know, the cry from every, you know, every characteristic comes by and he kind of goes, and he's saying, I don't know what's going on. I have no, you know, I'm not going to be here for long. When you said can be your belt, I pictured Lucy with the chocolates going by.

[74:59]

These things are coming by, but they're not exactly saying what they are. of who they are. They're not really giving you any kind of like definitive information, but information is flowing by and up and around and all over the place. And listening to and feeling this information is the way we then also become information back to the information, you know. If we're willing to let the information come through us without like grabbing it and holding it and saying, this is it. If we do that, then the information does that back to us and everything starts to get very stiff. And everything's got addresses. We got an address, then it's got an address. It puts an address on us, we put an address on it. But if we leave it alone, it leaves us alone.

[76:01]

And we, us leaving it alone, leaves it alone. And everything starts saving us, saving each other. So that's the appropriate response? That's the appropriate response. But isn't it, isn't it unusual? Isn't it unfamiliar? Don't you not know how to do it? Right. It's open. It's vulnerable. It's alive. Nobody owns it. Nobody knows where it's going to go. Do you trust this? Can you trust this? And also, if you trust it, but somehow you slip, then what happens? Go out in front. Look in front of the tower. You'll see your head there. Start over. Go back to the beginning of the story and come down through it again. Cutting off the head and that sounds really safe to me.

[77:07]

Cutting off the head and that sounds really safe to you. Yes, it saves you, right? So we keep getting saved from sticking our head out. We keep getting saved from taking a nest. Every time we take a nest, we lose our life. And then, if you recognize that you lost your life, you know reality and go back to the beginning. So the monk, I would say, the monk tried to do this thing, you know, didn't work. In both ways, I mean, the fear of losing the head is actually making you wish to fill the mess. They are intentionally...

[77:57]

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