I had a conversation with one of you wherein she said something like, I want to break free of karmic bondage. I want to break free of my karmic habits or my habits of mind and action built up through karma." And that would be nice, but actually we can't break free. of karmic hindrances by trying to break free of karmic hindrances, because actually the idea of breaking free of karmic hindrance is the kind of thinking that creates karmic hindrance.

[01:08]

So fighting against karmic hindrance or working with karmic hindrance with the motivation to become free of it will simply bury you deeper in karmic hindrance. My sweater. You like it? It's a t-shirt. Oh, it's a t-shirt. Oh, it's a t-shirt over another t-shirt. Yeah, it says present moment. But I said to this person, although breaking from karmic bondage is really not possible, not actually possible. It's not actually possible. It is possible to settle with karmic hindrance, settle in the midst of karmic hindrance, that is possible.

[02:13]

Again, just to say it again, one other way of saying why it's not possible to break free of karmic hindrance is because if karmic hindrance is real, you can't break reality. And if it's not real, you can't break unreality either. If karmic hindrance really isn't what's really going on, then you don't have to break it. If it is really what's going on, you can't break it. Karmic hindrance is a superficial appearance, which hurts a lot. And fighting it and trying to eliminate it causes more misery. But you can't get rid of something that's not really there, and you can't get rid of something that really is there. You can't get rid of anything, real or unreal. I say that anyway, don't take that seriously. But I do also say that you can settle down with what's, you can relax with what's unreal and you can relax with what's real.

[03:29]

You can settle down with karmic hindrance. If you settle down with karmic hindrance, then one becomes free of karmic hindrance indirectly. You can become free of it, but you can't break free of it. you can become free of it because it's not ultimately actually existing. It's not also ultimately actually not existing either. But we can become free of karmic hindrance if we settle with it, if we settle the mind and give up our usual self-concern about karmic hindrance. So just... and in that conversation I also talked about breaking out of prison. You can't really break out of this karma prison. Trying to break out of karmic prison is how you get into karma prison.

[04:34]

The karma police send people who are trying to escape from karma to karma jail. And once you get there, if you keep trying to get out, you get extended sentences. But if you relax in jail, the walls are no longer walls. They are beings which you are devoted to. You become devoted to the walls of the prison. And you have no preference over these walls to windows, or windows over these walls or being inside or outside of your cage. Therefore, you are no longer in prison. Congratulations. That's the end of my first talk tonight.

[05:40]

My second talk has to do with what is sometimes called formal meditation. Some people call formal meditation in Zen centers, Zazen. They write it on the bulletin board, as a matter of fact, sometimes. Zazen means sitting meditation or sitting Zen, or Zen sitting, or seated Zen. Those are possible translations of Zazen. And Zazen, in some Zen centers, what that means is not Zazen, any old Zazen, sometimes what it means is we're actually alluding to the Zazen which is the Zazen of the Buddhas. In other words, the seated meditation of Buddhas, there's such a practice. And there's a formal version of it, and then you could say a non-formal version of it.

[06:47]

So the formal or a ceremonial version of it and a non-ceremonial version of it. The ceremonial version of it is quite similar among the different Buddhist traditions. It involves traditionally sitting with your legs crossed like mine. called in this lotus position, and with your back straight, and sitting still, hands in this cosmic concentration mudra, and sometimes seated for formal periods, periods that have a form, like a beginning and an end, and a middle, and sort of like a halfway between middle and beginning. It's all organized quite formally. This is a formal sitting, and a lot of the Buddhas have done some formal sitting, but they also do this non-formal sitting, or this non-formal zazen, which doesn't have some particular form.

[07:52]

In other words, they can be sitting cross-legged, they can be bending their toes backwards, they can be looking at their mommy, they can be wiggling, they can be looking out the window, they can be pulling their ear, they can be smiling, they can be telling their wife the truth. they can be doing absolutely, they can be in any posture. So it's not a ceremony, it's the actuality of the Buddhas. So the non-formal or formless meditation of the Buddha, sometimes called sitting meditation of the Buddha, has nothing to do with sitting. and it's going on all the time because it has no form, so whatever form's appearing, it can penetrate. That's the actual meditation of the Buddha. It's all pervasive, pervades the entire universe.

[08:53]

And this is the zazen of the Buddhas who are sitting with us all the time. So we've talked about in previous meetings recently about the Buddhas practice together with each person So, we also talked about many Buddhas, but each Buddha practices together with each person. Kind of like Santa Claus in visiting each kid on Christmas, except that Buddha visits the Jewish kids too, and the Muslim kids. Buddha visits all the kids on Christmas. And also, on every night, Buddha visits all kids. And you're all Buddha's kids, so Buddha visits you every night. And then there's more than one Buddha, so you've got lots of Buddhas visiting you all the time. That's because they do this zazen, which is all-pervasive.

[09:55]

But also, we do this zazen, which is formal, which has a beginning and an end, has a certain posture. We do that too. and there's a relationship between these two. And I have used often the example, it's like the relationship between your birthday and a birthday party. So, on your birthday, whether you have a birthday party or not, it's still your birthday. And when it's not your birthday, whether you have a birthday party or not, it's not your birthday. And you can have a birthday party on your birthday. You can also have birthday parties not on your birthday. So every day, every moment is actual Buddha meditation moments.

[11:09]

And if you have the Buddha meditation party, that's nice, but it's still Buddha's meditation whether you have the party or not. But some people think, as you may know, I mean, I'm not saying you feel this way, but some people feel that if they don't have a birthday party on their birthday, it's not a very good birthday. Unless you make special arrangements with them and say, okay, we know it's your birthday today, we're not going to have a party, but we'll have one tomorrow. So, are you okay? Yeah. And some people are that way about Buddhist meditation, too. They don't feel good unless they occasionally have a party. Well, that's okay. Have a party. But don't be confused and think that if you don't have the party it's not your birthday or it's not... that the Buddha meditation is not going on.

[12:14]

Because it is. And the party has... it doesn't really like push the meditation around much. I almost want to say it has nothing to do with it, but I don't want to go that far. because it does have something to do with it, because Buddha, I think Buddha's meditation is, if you want to have a party, if you want to sit down and cross your legs, fine, it's okay, go right ahead, have a good time. Buddha's not going to say, you can't cross your legs and sit like that, because you're going to get confused and think that that's zazen, so don't do it. No, go ahead and do it. So we have actually a sitting at the beginning of this meeting, right? That was a little party we did. Did you have a nice time? Some of you didn't come. Well, even though you didn't come, Zazen was with you too, you non-party goers.

[13:19]

And the ones who went, Zazen was with you too. So those who went may have enjoyed it, those who didn't go may have enjoyed not going, but it's still your Buddha day or your birthday anyway. Does that make sense to everybody? Maybe that's enough. That's two. I have one more, but I'm going to not do it right now. the relationship between? Oh, the relationship is that they're not completely the same and they're not completely different and that you certainly can't have the formal meditation practice without the real.

[14:44]

But you can't have the real without the formal. That's the kind of relationship they have. However, the real is in relationship, although not necessarily the formal or the ceremonial meditation practice, but it is in relationship to all forms. So even if the formal practice isn't there, still the real meditation is intimately related to all things, even if among the list of things that's happening, one of them is not the formal meditation practice at a given time in history. No, it's not.

[15:59]

Also, many Buddhas have done some other things too, like flossed their teeth and cleaned their ears, but Buddhas do not have to floss. Some Buddhas, by the way, have no teeth. Oh, you're lobbying? Really? Wow. Right here in the halls of... Yes? So, you said that sediment was a good thing for being with karma and isn't seated meditation a very helpful activity for encouraging settlement? More than flossing. Oh no. Flossing's better. A lot better. I have easy time sitting cross-legged, but flossing, that's really hard.

[17:04]

What? He said what? He said, he said to sit? What? Why did he say just to sit? I don't know. had to say something. He said, our practice is just to sit, but he didn't say to practice, just said that was our practice. But just to sit doesn't mean to sit cross-legged. He doesn't mean like if you're scratching your nose you're supposed to be like not scratching your nose, you should be like, take your hand away from your nose and put it into the cosmic concentration. It doesn't mean that, I don't think. Do you think he meant that? Huh? You do think he meant that? No, I don't think so. I disagree. Just to sit means that when you're raising your hand, you're just raising your hand.

[18:12]

That's what just to sit means. He says, actually he says, he said, our practice is just to sit. And then he says, just to sit. It's not so easy to understand what just to sit means. And he didn't say this, but he might have said, for example, you might think that just to sit means that you just sit. That's not what it means. Just to sit means just do what you're doing. And that's all. Why did he encourage people to wake up at 4 a.m. and sit? What is it? I don't think he encouraged them to get up at 4 a.m. to sit by saying, please get up at 4 a.m. to sit. He didn't do it like that. The way he encouraged people to get up at 4 a.m. to sit was to get up at 4 a.m.

[19:12]

and sit. He didn't say, Vivi, I'd like to encourage you to get up and sit. He didn't do it like that. He just got up and sit and says, if you want to come and sit with me, fine. But he didn't say, you should go and sit. He said, I go and sit. If you want to come, too. See the difference? And then you could say, but why was that encouraging that he went to sit? You could say, well, it's because he was cute. Then you could say, well, why was he cute? And you could say, well, because he sat. Everybody that sits is cute. Especially people sit early. It makes you cute to sit early. So you sit early a lot, you get really cute and then people want to sit with you. So then you sit early and then they think you're trying to encourage them to come and sit with you but really you're just encouraging them to come and be with you and just sit. But really if you were standing they would come and stand with you.

[20:16]

I get the feeling like somebody's trying to say that sitting cross-legged is a little bit better than sitting uncross-legged or something, or sitting full lotus is better than half lotus. I'm sitting at full lotus. Are you? Huh? Who's sitting at full lotus besides me? Huh? I'm already sitting at full lotus. What? Why are you sitting at full lotus? I've had enough of this why business. But you people are more interested in why than how, aren't you? Anyway, this is how I'm sitting. See the little toes? This is how. Yeah.

[21:34]

That was a different story. The one where he left me sitting in the room for a couple of hours, I didn't tell him I was in pain. I was in pain, but I didn't tell him. There was another story where I said I'm in pain if I sit in full lotus. But if I sit in half lotus, it's not so bad, and I can concentrate on my breath better. And he said, oh, why don't you sit in full lotus? But this other story where I sat there, we weren't talking about my pain, because he left. He had other things to do. I didn't have a chance to say much. That is a good story, isn't it? It's a great story. Yeah. It's in a book someplace. Anyway, I'm not putting down birthday parties. They're swell, really. But if you get attached to birthday parties and think that birthday parties are better than not birthday parties and birthday parties that are catered are better than not catered ones or birthday parties that are like in accord with the formal tradition of the true way of Buddhism are better than sort of, I don't know what.

[22:52]

inauthentic birthday parties, then you're getting hung up on the birthday party, and you're kind of losing the point of the birthday party. So we have really good birthday parties all over the world, and we have nice meditation ceremonies all over the world. They're really great, but there's a lot of other great things too, and not doing those practices, those ceremonies is also sometimes great. Got to be careful now that you don't make a great thing into something you grasp, because if you do, then you're back in karma prison. Then you make wonderful sitting meditation like just sit, you make it into prison. But it is a nice ceremony, but that's all it is, it's just a little human thing. So when he said just sit, you can interpret it as a birthday party, but that's not really what he wants you to do. Because that's not really going to help you to like do this thing. That's the karmic point of view. I'm going to do this sitting. Just sitting is not something you do.

[23:58]

But if you're going to do something, well you can do that too. But that's not really what zazen is. Zazen is not the sitting that I do or that you do. Does that make sense? That's the actual sitting and the ceremony celebrates that sitting. the sitting which is just sitting. Just sitting means not you just sit. It's just sitting. It's not you doing the just sitting. Just sitting is the just sitting. It's not you doing it. You doing it. He didn't say, please, you, he actually probably did say, you do just sitting. That's a mistake to say you do just sitting. Just sitting means you, is the sitting that isn't the sitting that you do. It's the sitting that the whole universe does. That's Buddhist sitting. And we do these ceremonies to celebrate the sitting that the whole universe does. And yeah, why not celebrate the sitting that the whole universe does?

[25:06]

Go ahead. You would agree? Great. Convert. Let's hear it for the convert. An opportunity. It is a vantage point to look at karma, that is true.

[26:18]

But you said just a minute ago, everything has the opportunity to be a vantage point to look at karma. Right? Yes. I did. I said this other thing. You said this other thing? I did say it. And so what was the reason for saying this other thing? If you realize that everything is an opportunity, are you saying something different from that now? Or are you just giving us an example? of one of the things that offers an opportunity for whatever you said. Did you say awakening? Well, I didn't go that far. What did you say? Opportunity for… No, no, first you said everything's an opportunity for… Awakening. Yeah. Having a way to look at karma, hey, that's fine, but if that's all you're going to be looking at is karma, I would say, well, you have better things to do. How about looking at something that's going to be an opportunity for awakening?

[27:35]

And it turns out that looking at karma is one of the great opportunities for awakening. But also, trying to deny karma is another opportunity for awakening. Because according to Berndt, everything's an opportunity for awakening, right? And Bernd is right. But he's got this little problem about this special thing, about this special Zazen thing, which he's… What did you say? Did you say you had an attachment to it? Did you? Okay. And that's a problem. having attachment to this special vantage point. You see, that's the point. I'm telling you about this thing which is so highly recommended by certain people and therefore, because they recommend it, they attach to it. Then, although it's still a wonderful vantage point, basically they're just now hurting their dear little selves by attaching to this wonderful vantage point. I got these new perfect binoculars.

[28:39]

I can like see truth through them. Okay. Isn't this nice? Yes, it is. Now give me the binoculars. No way. No way. I'm keeping these binoculars. This is fantastic. Look at that. Give me the binoculars. No. Hand them over. I'm not going to hand them over. Those binoculars. Let go of them. No. give me the binoculars." The binoculars are called off, no more binoculars. And then we have a religious war. The true school which says, let go of the binoculars and the ones who say, forget that, we've got the binoculars. So anyway, you're not attached enough to those binoculars, that's the problem. Did you go to Zazen this morning? At the Zendo? Yeah, conversation and karma, that's much better than cross-legged sitting in the Zen, though, in the dark.

[30:00]

But anyway, they're all opportunities So anyway, let's promote the special practice of sitting cross-legged in the zendo together early in the morning. Let's promote that. And let's also promote it later in the morning, later in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening. Let's promote it all the time with no attachment to it, okay? And let's also promote practicing zazen outside the zendo all the time with no attachment to it. Pardon? Did you say it's hard to attach? Hard to be attached? Although it seems to be hard to attach, I know some people who are able to do it. Did you say really practicing? Or what do you mean really practicing? Because really practicing, you could say, or really practicing means without attachment, so. Yeah, of course. But if you're already attached and you do it all the time, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't continue to be attached.

[31:14]

Most people you know like you? You mean the you you know? Right, so you could just have the practice be attaching to those parts that you're attached to. Have that be the practice. Then you're already successful. The only problem is you're attached to your success. It's the one flaw in that particular practice. And there are some people who are actually quite good at certain type of practice and they're attached to it so they're able to do it quite consistently. The problem is they're attached to it. And if I would happen to say to them, excuse me, miss, guess what? And she says, what? I say, it's time to stop doing the practice. This wonderful practice is time to stop doing this practice. And she says, well, no thanks, because this practice has to be done, because it's the right practice, and I'm going to continue.

[32:26]

And that's that, mister. And then I say, yes, but the problem is you're attached to it, and this is antithetical to the Buddha way. And you say, you are crazy, or whatever. And you just go right ahead doing it fairly consistently, attached, attached, attached. So I think actually people do have a practice. which they don't all call it Buddhism, but some of them hear the word Buddhism and then they say the practice that they're doing, which is actually their way, their habit, they sometimes then try to find a way to say, well, that's Buddhism. So then, great, so now you've got your habits, plus they've been promoted to Buddhism, or you change your habits slightly so they look enough like Buddhism so you can call them that, and a lot of people say, yeah, well, right. You get a little badge, it's a little Dharma wheel thing and a little Buddha figure and some jewels and stuff to wear. you know, get a haircut and get some nice robes and sign up, become a member of a Zen center or something. And then just lock into whatever your habit is and make that the practice and then boom!

[33:30]

That's the reason to have, you know what, to challenge you, to say, hand over your jewels, hand over your glasses, hand over your children, hand over your idea of practice. And it's not like these people are just trying to cause trouble, it's just that they naturally want to have whatever you're attached to and then sell it, put it in goodwill. Now some people are not so successful, they can't quite say, what I'm doing is the practice. So those people actually are not in quite as much trouble. even though they're attached to what they're doing, they don't call it practice. But some people call what they're doing practice and are attached to it, and they do it fairly consistently, and it doesn't necessarily work that that's enough for them to get over their habits of attachments, which means they're missing the opportunity of their life the way it already is as being an opportunity for enlightenment.

[34:38]

All they've got to do is, whatever they're doing, stop being attached to it, and then the door opens. Do I think it helps? Yeah. I think it's like a, what do you call it, a hothouse for wimpy tomatoes, tomato plants that just simply will just say, okay, I'm just going to wilt and die out here in the field. This is just, you know, if you expose me to reality, I'm just going to like, either die or become a pumpkin instead of a tomato. So the formal practice is the comfortable way to get used to non-attachment.

[35:39]

So it's a nice kind of introduction to the actual practice of the Buddha, so kind of a warm-up exercise. some people who don't need it anymore keep practicing it to encourage people to do the warm-up exercise. So Buddhists don't need to sit cross-legged anymore, but they sometimes keep doing it because it's fun to do the warm-up exercise, plus you get to then... nice thing about it is you get to do... you can practice with beginners, but you can't usually go into a bar with a beginner. So usually they don't bring bars into beginners, I mean beginners into bars, or have bars in the zendo. Although in France I guess they do have bars right next to the zendo. I heard that. They drink, instead of doing walking meditation, they drink between periods of meditation. Very good wine, you know. It's kind of their cultural pride that they integrate with Buddhism.

[36:44]

Whereas here, you know, we don't have a Well, maybe California will become that way. There's a bar in Paris called Buddha Bar. Buddha Bar? It's full of Buddhas. It's full of Buddhas? Fantastic! Wow! Full of Buddhas, I like that. We have a bar like that here, right in this room. This is also a Buddha Bar. It's full of Buddhas. Unfortunately, there's no alcohol. There's alcohol in that bar? What did you say? Pardon? You do? Am I in any way responsible for that? I feel somewhat relieved although I shouldn't. Okay, well, anything else you want to bring up this evening?

[37:56]

Catherine? Or is it Cathy? Cathy? Trying to understand how to live without preference? This acknowledges that idea, right. I think this implies that idea that you You might get up in the morning and go early in the morning to sit cross-legged in the zendo, but it would be nice if you did that without preference. Just go. And I would suggest to you that that's possible, to get up early in the morning and just go without preferring to go. It's possible. It's also possible to stay in bed without preferring to stay in bed, although it's more advanced. It's more difficult to stay in, I think for most people, it's more difficult to stay in bed without preferring to stay in bed than to get up and go to the Zendo without preferring to go to the Zendo.

[39:01]

You know what I mean? I think a lot of people, somehow it's easier to get into non-preference by going to do this weird thing than to avoid non-preference by doing this normal, healthy, intelligent thing called staying in bed and avoiding those weirdos in the zendo. So you might say, well, it's easy to avoid, yeah, easy to avoid preference to go sit with those people. I certainly don't prefer them. So then you kind of get in the hang of, like, I get up every morning and do this thing which I don't prefer. It's possible, and I'm totally devoted to this thing which I don't prefer. Then gradually you can become devoted to people that you don't prefer. And then you can get, be totally devoted to people which you really don't prefer. And then you're all set to be a bodhisattva. So the sitting is a nice warm-up to that. So it's a great practice, unless you attach to it.

[40:05]

then it's too bad, then you miss the opportunity because you're attached to it. Just like if you have a birthday party and you're attached to it, it ruins your birthday. You have a nice birthday, you know, And then you get attached to the birthday party and you ruin your birthday. Or you get attached to the cake or attached to the presents and this precious beautiful birthday is shot by your attachment. Yeah? Right. And it's my party and I'll cry if I want to and it's my party and I'll cry if it doesn't go the way I want it to. Because it's my party. So, you're welcome to make the rest of the evening go not the way I want it.

[41:12]

What do you want to do? Yes? Someone asked me this past week, after coming back from the Sahara, they said, well, they don't know that much about Zen, but they know it's full of all these things you have to do. Yeah, well that person said they didn't know much about Zen, right? Well, so they're asking me. So it's not true. Zen is full of all those things which you do not have to do. But, I like doing some of those things because I'm relating this to the push

[42:20]

to you about what's the connection between a formal party and then the birthday. And for me, pretty much it's just so, I don't expect other people to do it, too. It helps me. And like getting the jump now. No, no. So, putting your shoes a certain way, you like to, and you said, as long as you don't get into other people have to do it. And so, when I do it, I'm thinking things like, I don't want people to trip on my shoes. No, I'm doing it in a mindful way. I'm doing that in a mindful way. It helps me to be mindful when important things come. That's something that's really hard to deal with.

[43:25]

Not my shoes. That's what I said. Okay. Good. So, taking care of your shoes has all these wonderful opportunities. But the most important thing about taking care of your shoes, more important than the things you said so far, is what? You just mentioned some good things about taking care of your shoes, reasons why you like to take care of your shoes. But what's the most important reason for taking care of your shoes? I'm thinking of all sorts of things. Well, that's fine. And then tell me what they are, and I'll tell you whether you got the right answer or not. But we only have about five minutes, so hurry up. The most important thing about taking care of the shoes is not so that you won't be attached to the shoes, it's so that you won't be attached to taking care of the shoes.

[44:39]

The most important thing about these practices is so that you won't be attached to them. So the most important thing about mindfulness is so you won't be attached to mindfulness. The most important thing about enlightenment is so you won't be attached to enlightenment. The most important thing about the best thing in the universe is not that it's the best thing in the universe, it's that finally you've got the best thing, and then if you don't attach to that, then maybe you won't attach to things that are less attractive. So, taking care of your shoes is one of the little special Zen practices which are very, it's very nice practice. Taking care of your shoes is an excellent and fun thing to do. And, you know, for people who have shoes, it's like very convenient. All you gotta do to be a Zen master is take care of your shoes. And then one more thing, forget about taking care of your shoes. Don't worry about it. Let go of this fantastic practice.

[45:41]

Get over it. Snap out of it. Get a life. which means be a Buddha, but not just be a Buddha, but give up being a Buddha, forget about being a Buddha. So, taking care of your shoes, when you realize how good it is, then you've got to the place where you're ready for the practice, which is give it up. But, if you don't have anything neat, then you can't really test whether you're ready to let go. So that's why we try to make everybody real happy and then say, okay, now give me your jewels. So you go sit in the zendo and they say, okay, guess what? No zazen today. No meditation for you. Go work in the kitchen. Or come and talk to me. Take a walk with me. I don't want to. I want to go sit in the zendo. Sit with me. You know, it is now three minutes to nine and I will tell you a story.

[46:43]

Are you ready? In this building here, twenty-eight and a half years ago, the great teacher Suzuki Roshi was about to enter, actually entered Parinirvana. At Tassajara we have this chant, twenty-four hundred eighty-three years ago the great Tathagata entered Nirvana. Twenty-eight and a half years ago, our great compassionate founder entered nirvana, and I was the jesha to the new abbot, Richard Baker, so I was involved with him taking care of our master, who had just died. And he died at the beginning of a five-day Sesshin, it wasn't a seven-day Sesshin in this particular, it was Rohatsu, but it was a five-day. And we're starting the Sesshin, he died during the first period of that Sesshin. So then that day we took care of him, everyone, hundreds of his students came and bowed to him and so on.

[47:50]

And then it was time to like take his body over to the mortuary and pick a casket and so on. And so I'm riding over there down Goff Street, okay? And I'm riding down Goff Street to go to the mortuary to take care of my teacher's body. And I'm thinking, guess what I'm thinking? Huh? I want to go sit zazen? Good guess, Pam. I'm thinking, this is sashim, what am I doing driving down Goff Street going to going to mortuaries and picking out expensive, you know, here I am picking out these expensive caskets. But then I thought, wow, you know, I got this idea that I'm supposed to be like sitting in, I'm a Zen priest, so I'm supposed to be sitting in the Zendo rather than like taking care of the body of my teacher. So, you know, I kind of got it, but there is that tendency to think, you know,

[48:55]

Sit zazen! You know, sit still! It has all these good qualities. And then your Buddha dies, but you don't have time to go to the mortuary with him because, you know, it doesn't... somehow... you got to get in a car that has California license plates and drive down the street. It's like so unholy out there. But it's kind of silly because, you know, what could you more want to do than to take care of your teacher, right? But you're kind of like, doesn't fit with, because you're kind of stuck back in the Zen-do, being a Zen priest, being a great yogi. So I've got to be careful of that. Buddha doesn't have these problems. Buddha like mortuary, Zen-do, kitchen, toilet, birth, death, it's all just one happy flow. Buddha, give up Buddha, you know. But we provide these nice opportunities that are so cool that you might hold on to them and so your attachment becomes out there, you know, where you can see it.

[50:08]

And people can say, well, give up the zazen, but you can't really say to people, it's harder to say, give up your body or give up your teeth, give up your mother. People say, why didn't you ask me to give him my mother? But we can say, give up Zazen, Bernd. Do not go to Zazen for one week. Okay? Do not go in that zendo for one week. You can say that to him, and he has to sort of think about, well, is he kidding? Blah, blah, blah. You know, but he might think about it, and actually think I'm serious, and actually consider, you know, not going. But if I told him, you know, don't eat any sugar for a week, he'd say, well, you can't tell me that kind of thing. But when it comes to zazen, he thinks I have some authority, so he considers what I have to say. So we dispense this nice practice, and then we can take it away. But since we're not in charge of the sugar, people say, you don't own my seized candy.

[51:09]

Get your hands out of there. So we have these special gifts we give, and then we can take them back. We can give enlightenment, we say, give me the enlightenment back, come on, hand it over, do not attach to that, that's not yours, give it back, we just loaned that to you. And the person, no, that's true, you did give me this, so here, take it back, put it in, I don't want to give it back. So you can catch him. Whereas you can't catch him at some other stuff, because they think you've got no rights. Does that make sense? So that's another nice thing about the formal practice, is the formal practice, you know you have to give up if your teacher asks you to. Because it was just a setup between the two of you, you know? So you've got to give it up. So that's good. That's the most important thing. And if your teacher says, you know, after many years, if your teacher finally gets you to put your shoes in the right place, the teacher says, OK, now, just leave your shoes that way.

[52:09]

Don't straighten them. Do not straighten those shoes. Matter of fact, you know, keep your shoes on. Walk on the tatami mats with your shoes. Marioka, keep your shoes on and walk on that tatami mat. I can't, I can't, I can't defile the mat. There's another story about me. I was at Tassajara in 1970. Suzuki Roshi was still alive. And the Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche came to visit. And so it wasn't so long after he had this accident where he became, you know, pretty crippled, and he came into the Tathagata Zen Do wearing these huge black boots, or black shoes, big thick heavy shoes with braces on his legs, clomp, clomp, clomp, down this pristine floor that we always walked barefoot on. In those days we didn't even wear socks in the Zen Do. and went clomp, clomp, clomp, and then clomp, clomp, clomp, up under the Tami mat on the altar, you know, and I was... I was shocked.

[53:21]

I was shocked. I mean, I knew it was crippled and that's why I had these shoes on, but still, I was shocked. Would I have, you know, how about if Buddha had come in with boots on, you know, what is it? You're not even crippled. You're not crippled. You can't get out of here. Take those boots off. Those golden Buddha boots. Well, anyway, I didn't say anything, but I was shocked and I thought it was... I did not think it was cool. But anyway, he gave this talk and I forgave him. It was a nice talk. Please forgive me if I'm a little obnoxious, but eventually, me and my friends are going to take away all your attachments, and you're going to be Buddhas, and then we're going to take that away, and then you're really going to be Buddhas, and then we're going to take that away, and then you're going to really be Buddhas, and so on.

[54:30]

Get the picture? Very nice picture. It's a little scary, I know, but it's really the best for one and all. So, see you around. I'll be here next week. Yes?

[54:44]

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