Some people mentioned to me that they had some trouble studying in terms of getting drowsy and also getting drowsy. Can you hear me okay? Can you hear me okay back there? Hmm? Getting drowsy and some resistance to the text, and I suggested that... when you feel like that, frustrations are good. So we set up an altar back here in the back room there, and with a statue of Guan Yin, Bodhisattva of Compassion there. And so if you're in study hall, and feeling drowsy or having difficulty understanding the text, go do prostrations for a while, probably will help.

[01:04]

And if there's several of you, you can make space there. It's okay with me if you're all doing it simultaneously. Let's see. I'm having trouble deciding which way to go, but I guess I'll start by saying that as I mentioned before, the truth of worldly convention. It's interesting that the original Sanskrit has these two different spellings.

[02:09]

Remember those two spellings? Yeah. So one is... S A M V R T T I and the other one is V R T I and the root of this one is V R T and the root here is V R and VR means the root VR means to be covered or clouded or hidden. But VRT means to arise or come to be.

[03:21]

There's these two etymologies. And in the end, it looks like... although it's not clear, completely clear, what this word means, this term of samvritti, samvritti satya, worldly truth, or worldly convention, it's not completely clear what it means. But it seems like probably the best interpretation is both of them. That worldly truth or conventional truth or worldly convention has a conveys the meaning of something that hides the truth the truth hidden the truth hidden or clouded over by ignorance and the manifestation of truth

[04:45]

within the world. So there is a truth which bodhisattvas are familiar with, which is an aspect of their wisdom. where they can see that the worldly convention cloud over ultimate truth and also manifest ultimate truth in the context of dependently co-arisen birth and death. In the context of dependently co-arisen language. And these two meanings, if you take the truth of worldly convention to be embracing both of these spellings and both of these meanings, it brings up a dimension of practice which a lot of people who have been attracted to Zen Buddhism

[06:13]

are either surprised by or uncomfortable with and that is it brings up the dimension of of us being that part of the truth is that we are in a clouded state that we are living as long as we're in the world we are subject to some clouding of the truth, that we can't, as long as we're in the world, we cannot see clearly. As long as we're dealing, as long as we're in a place where things seem to happen, and the reason why they happen is because the truth of their not happening is clouded over, we are somewhat blind. and fallible to say the least.

[07:17]

And the revelation of ultimate truth is based on us accepting this aspect of conventional reality. If we refuse to accept that to some extent, if we live in the world, we're blind, that the truth is hidden from us by the nature of the world. If we won't accept that, then our access to ultimate truth is blocked by that lack of acceptance of this aspect of conventional truth. But the other aspect of worldly convention is that it is revealing the truth. And that... And that a Buddha is using the world as a way to re-engage from ultimate reality.

[08:31]

So, re-engage, yeah. Ultimate reality, conventional reality is where The Buddhas re-engage with the world. Conventional truth is a clouding of truth, but it's also a manifestation of Buddha. It's where Buddha appears, comes to meet sentient beings. So, in the conventional world, there is, in the truth of the convention, there is naturally an ascendant, a drive to ascend or to transcend or become free of ignorance. And there is also simultaneously

[09:42]

a drive to descend into the world. The conventional truth is that the Buddhists want to descend into the world and sentient beings want to become free of the world, and these are happening simultaneously. As a matter of fact, the drive to ascend or to transcend suffering of the world of ignorance is exactly the Buddha engaging with the world. When we wish to be free of suffering, when we wish to be free of ignorance, when we wish to transcend the birth death trap. Buddha has just inhabited our life. As it says in the old translation of the Song of the Jewelmira Samadhi, inquiry and response come up together.

[10:59]

So when you inquire into Dharma, the response to your inquiry is at the same time. It isn't that you say, what's Dharma? And then you get an answer. When you say, what's Dharma? That's the Buddha, right there. What's the New Translation say? Did it stay the same? Drumming and singing at the same time. Drumming and singing at the same time? Pivotal moment. Find it? The meaning is not the word, but a pivotal moment brings it forth.

[12:10]

So that's that. What? What? The meaning does not reside in the words, but a pivotal moment brings it forward. Seems like a different thing. What's the pivotal moment? The pivotal moment... What? So the pivotal moment in this case is when you inquire into Dharma. That inquiry, that interest to practice, that's a pivotal moment. That's still there. What's the meaning is not in the word?

[13:13]

The meaning is not in the word. Oh, I see. That's not the same place. So where in the old one is inquiring response come up together? Anyway, don't worry about it. Another place which I couldn't find in Dogen, he says that the thought of enlightenment is not brought forth by yourself. The thought, you know, the thought, I would like to, I want to devote my life to attaining complete enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. That thought is not given rise to by me, sentient beings. Also, Buddha, it does not come from Buddha. Buddha doesn't send that message to me.

[14:19]

That thought arises in the communion with Buddha. In the actual communion of Buddha, we think. I would like to attain enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. At that time, Buddha has come into the world. It's not Buddha sending this to us and making it that way. It is, that is Buddha, that's what Buddha is in the world, is when we think like that. A sentient being is deluded. And when a sentient being admits that, a sentient being is admitting part of the conventional truth. When you actually accept that, you also accept a whole bunch of other stuff. You accept that you're suffering, which is not like it was not there, and then when you accepted that you were deluded, then you start to suffer.

[15:28]

It's just that when you admit one thing, you start to admit the other stuff, which is already there. Deluded people suffer, right? We're occluded, clouded over birth and death. We don't see how birth and death works. We suffer. When we see that and accept that truth, we naturally want to become free of it. Not free of the truth, but free of the misery which comes with our ignorance. As soon as we wish to be free and to free others, at that same moment, Buddha is there. The truth is revealed. This is not the deluded person who wants to be free. The deluded person is not capable of coming up with that. This is the manifestation of truth.

[16:33]

It's a different pivotal moment. This is the point that inquiry and response come up at the same time. wherever that is in the new translation. So, as soon as you inquire, as soon as you're interested, as soon as you aspire, immediately there is both an ascent and a descent in the world. So, this is like, you know, in this chant, I always feel uncomfortable about this, you know, because it says, you know, various things, like... Is it the beginning or the end? Four pages from the end? One, two, three, four. Yeah. It says, revering Buddhas and ancestors, we are one of the Buddhas and ancestors of old.

[17:35]

May Buddhas and ancestors who have maintained the Buddha way be compassionate to us and free us from karmic effects, allowing us the way, allowing us to practice the way. So we're asking these Buddhas to help us You know? It says also that, you know, we're going to be Buddhas and stuff, but it talks about these actual Buddhas, and I don't like this idea of those Buddhas out there, you know? Buddhas like beyond. But then what is evoking? You used to say evoking and invoking is So anyway, I don't like this idea. Buddha is separate. But it turns out they're not separate. They are together with us in the conventional world. When we are in the conventional world and when we wish to be free of it because it hurts and we're feeling it, then they're with us.

[18:48]

they actually can also live in a place somehow, it seems like, that's separate from us. Not really separate from us. It's just another version of reality where we don't exist. It's not like they're someplace else. It's just that where they often hang out is a place where we aren't. You know, we're alive. It's the same world, but we as independent agents are not there. So the Buddhas, those Buddhas, well, they're not there either. But that's where they live. They live in a place where they aren't either, where nothing's happening. They've realized that and they're totally in accord with that and we've got these kind of things. What they are is their emptiness. Their emptiness completely pervaded by love. That's the Buddha. There's no sentient beings in there. It's the same world that we have right here.

[19:53]

It's just that nothing's happening. And in that nothing happening, there's great love. And that's Buddha. That Buddha wants to come into this world when we call. Matter of fact, it can't get in until we call. And when we call, it's in. But before we call, If nobody was calling, Buddha would not be in the conventional world. But as soon as somebody calls, Buddha is in the world. Not in the world where nothing happens, which is their main hangout. Not in the world where nothing happens, where nothing is arising and ceasing, where everything is from the beginning quiet and nirvanic. but in the world where things are not quiet from the beginning, and not nirvanic, but samsara, birth and death, and suffering.

[21:05]

As soon as we accept that world of birth and death, that we don't understand, we accept that too, and want to understand, Buddha has entered. And it's like, at the same time, who's responsible, you know, for this? It's not on one side. It's the communion. And like I say, I think some people, me, one of them, had kind of some uneasy feelings about this, kind of like this kind of religious thing of these Buddhas coming to meet us in our practice. And So, you know, I think I might have said, you know, that when Wang Bo says, and when Wang Bo says that the Buddhas and all sentient beings are just one mind, I think I might have said that that's ultimate truth.

[22:09]

But it's not ultimate truth. It's conventional truth. It's conventional wisdom. It's wisdom. It's the Bodhisattva can see that in the conventional world there are Buddhas all around all sentient beings when the sentient beings cry for help. There's Buddhas right there. That's their ticket into the world. That is truth, but it's the truth of the world. It's not the truth of emptiness. In the truth of emptiness, there aren't any sentient beings or Buddhas, except Buddhas are that emptiness, full of love. When Dogen says that all the Buddhas are practicing together with each person, that's the conventional truth, that the ordinary world is manifesting that relationship.

[23:15]

I said at the beginning that we need to, in order to enter into contemplation of ultimate truth, we need to feel this support. In other words, in order to enter into contemplation of ultimate truth, we need to understand conventional truth. And conventional truth is that our interest in understanding ultimate truth is immediately supported by all the Buddhas. But in more intimate than that, our interest in understanding ultimate truth and thereby becoming liberated to help all beings, that is Buddha in the world. That is Buddha helping us. There's nothing in addition to us wishing to realize the way.

[24:28]

When a being is on the earth wishing to attain enlightenment, when that happens, that being is transformed by that wish, that transformation is Buddha in the world. In order for us to practice, we need to understand We need to have that part of enlightenment and we need to understand that it's through communion with Buddha that that happens. Then we can dive into study which will open us to ultimate reality. If I start having questions now, then that'll be that. And I'm happy to have it be that. And do this. That's okay with me. But that's probably what will happen.

[25:31]

Do you want me to start responding to questions? Okay. So... How does a sentient being leap into alternate reality? They don't do it by their own power. I cannot study dependent core arising of birth and death and see how it works and see how it's the same as emptiness and realize alternate truth and freedom. I cannot do that by myself. I cannot even try without feeling like I'm getting help. But in fact, not only do I need to feel like I'm getting help in order to do this, and not only do I have to feel like I want to help in order to do this, but I actually have to have the help to do this.

[26:33]

And if I think of doing this, I do have the help. And there are actually people in this valley who do not feel they're getting help yet. And they need to. They need to feel they're getting help. And we need to understand that when we want to attain the way, we are being... This is the Buddha in the world when we want to do that. This is the Buddha. We are being helped at that moment when we think that thought. We have not yet finished the course and penetrated into the truth of how the world works and how the world works. We haven't yet seen that, but we can start now to dive into the world and to do the kinds of training which will... which will...

[27:41]

which will be the understanding of, you know, the evolution of defiled consciousness and so on, which we need to understand. So now I could just briefly, not only briefly, but yeah, sort of briefly, again, look at the practices the practices which, again, I'm referring to, which I've already talked about. And... So, you know, the famous way of talking about it is upright sitting. But now I would say upright sitting... In the context of what?

[28:43]

What? Love. Love. In the context of the Bodhisattva vow. In the context of the thought of enlightenment. Which has been born because because I'm suffering. I know it. I want to be free. And right at that time Buddha has now adopted me and I've adopted Buddha. And now I sit upright. Or now there's upright sitting. And in this upright sitting, now the Buddha is giving me help, giving me dharma. In this upright sitting, I must renounce discovery of ultimate truth which I want to discover.

[29:47]

If I don't renounce discovery of the truth which I want to discover, I'm not sitting upright. Okay, if I want to understand ultimate truth, but I'm not willing to let go of it, I'm leaning into understanding ultimate truth. This is not upright sitting. If I sit upright without trying to get anything, Even though, of course, I just made a vow that I want to get complete enlightenment to help people. But I renounce trying to get anything for myself. And if I want to get things for everybody else, I don't know what direction to lean.

[30:57]

When I'm trying to help everybody, I lean in all directions at once. Namely, I'm just upright. I'm not going anywhere. I'm not trying to get anything because I'm trying to get everything for everybody. So I'm just upright and awake. I don't even know what this is. I've renounced discovering ultimate truth and I've renounced knowing what this is. This is also being upright, sitting upright. How come I do that? Because I heard from the Buddhas that that's the practice to realize This love that I want. This enlightenment that I want. I heard that's the practice. They all said that, you know, in various ways they're all saying the same thing. That's the practice. But they start feeding me these instructions after I say I want it and after they're already here realized by my saying that.

[32:06]

I'm feeling the support. So it also makes it possible for me to sit here without trying to get anything. And it not only makes it possible for me to sit here without trying to get anything and renouncing the great discovery, but it makes it possible for me to pay attention. I'm not just sitting here spaced out, not trying to get anything. I'm not trying to get anything and I'm also watching everything in minute detail. I'm watching every single thing very carefully as though, almost as though I was trying to get something. Almost as though my life depended on this face in front of me. Like this is the big one right now. Total attention, total devotion to each thing without trying to get anything. How is this possible? Not by some crummy, little, deluded, selfish person who's not going to be able to pull this off.

[33:14]

This is because Buddha has now taken over my body. How come? Because I said, help. Or I said, I want to realize such a practice. So, that's all they need. So then things start happening. When you give this kind of devoted attention to each moment without trying to get anything, then things start happening. Gradually start happening. Things start moving around. Things start misbehaving. They were before, but you always were busy, you know, trying to do something about it, and you didn't see how pervasive this was. You gradually get used to the way things actually are. And the way they are is that no thing, no person, no feeling, no thought, no social event is what it appears to be.

[34:27]

Nothing is what it appears to be. Nothing is simply what you think it is. What you think it is is what it appears to be. There's no way out of that. This is the world. Welcome to the world where everything appears to be what you think, and what you think is what it appears. That's the way it is here. But if you practice this upright sitting, which the Buddhas are sponsoring and have no other life in this world but to do that with us, you start to realize that nothing is as it appears. Nothing is what you think. Nothing. Now, you kind of knew that at the beginning when you realized how deluded you were. But you also know, well, I'm deluded, but part of my delusion is I still think that what I think is sort of what's happening or actually flat out what's happening.

[35:31]

My opinions about what's good for this world just happen to be, what a coincidence, right? Right? And so I'm going to shove these down other people's mouth. It's good for them because I know. Well, of course, this is called misery, especially for the others. But for you, too, when they cough it up or close your teeth or run away and won't take the good medicine that you knows what they should take. Anyway, you know. at some point, you recognize the first aspect of conventional reality, you know that that is the truth clouded over. My truth in this world is actually the truth with a cloud in front of it. And I think the cloudiness over the truth is the truth. As I sit there and look at these clouds for a long time, I start to see

[36:33]

actually I start to see the truth. And the truth is that what I thought was the truth is not. It's just my thinking. And since I realize that everything is not what it appears, I start to see that everything is the same. Everything has the quality of being not what I think it is. The world starts to look the same. And as the world looks more and more the same, it starts to sound more and more what, for example, the Samadhi Nirmocana Sutra says is ultimate reality. Ultimate reality is everywhere the same. And that which is everywhere the same is ultimate reality. When you start to see that everything is X, you start to open up to ultimate truth.

[37:39]

Now, this X is not a very nice X, because this X is not what you think. But again, you get used to that. You get comfortable, almost, with not that. So, like, I. What is that? Not I. Justin, what is that? Not Justin. Brooks, what is that? Not Brooks. Man, what is that? Not man. In other words, not what you think. You get used to that. You understand, gradually, that everywhere you look you see the same thing. Well, what is that? Alternate truth. What is that that you see everywhere? Well, it's myself. Every face I meet is myself. Now, of course, usually I think every face I meet is not myself. But, right? So then you understand that since what you think is every face is not yourself, then every face is yourself.

[38:45]

Every face is yourself. Now you know about that self you used to have. That was the self that you had in the world. where the truth was covered over. Now the truth's getting uncovered and all those faces which weren't yourself now are yourself because that's the way it is. Is that every face is actually what you think it's not. Now you could say, well, couldn't I just think that Galen is Kendra and Kendra is Melissa? That's not exactly what we mean by not what we think. Because really, really what we think other people are is not us. I mean, the fact, you know, that Kathy's not Justin is not that big a deal to me. It's that Kathy's not me.

[39:50]

That's really what she's not. And also, it gets complicated because if Kendra's not not Galen, and Lee is not Charlie, then it's not the same everywhere. There's all these little adjustments all over the universe to this space which to that, and it's still all different. So really Kendra is Galen, Galen is really Sarah. No. But if it's not self, then it's the same everywhere. That's what it is now, right? Now it's the same everywhere. It's not self. Okay, so let's get switched to, it is self. This is called the self-fulfilling samadhi. Everybody you meet is yourself. Everybody you meet is fulfilling yourself, is filling out the picture of yourself. All the sleeping people here are myself.

[40:51]

Is it, is it, you know, I have the door open, is it hot over on that side? No, it's okay. Okay, so we have, I want to be a Buddha to help everybody. That's Buddha coming into my life in the conventional world. That's the truth being revealed in the conventional world to this person who's still in the conventional world blind. I blindly want to be Buddha. Now, what's the practice? Well, many versions of it. Renunciation of gain, upright sitting. Renunciation of personal gain, upright sitting. Okay, got the picture? And that leads to realization that everything's the same. In other words, everybody's me. It means everything's not what it appears, which means everybody's me.

[41:57]

which means things are not what they appear, which means everybody's life is my life. In other words, it means I see things like Buddha. And so that shows that is the criterion or the standard of upright sitting. When you practice upright sitting, the standard of its realization is this self-fulfilling awareness. When you actually are into the upright sitting, its standard is that everybody fulfills you. In other words, everybody tells you who you are. Namely, everybody's you. Okay? So, you don't... What sometimes people do is they say, okay, go around, everybody's me, everybody's me, everybody's me. No, it's not quite like that. First of all, Everybody's not what you think. Then everybody's me.

[43:03]

Think it's that way first. Don't try to talk yourself into this. Just be upright until this is revealed to you. Don't try to get in there, get a little sense of being in there, to engineer this thing. That's not upright sitting. Then you're trying to get yourself this vision. Let the Buddha do this for you. This thing is not engineered. This thing is a miracle. It's unexpected. It's not going to be like the way you would have worked it out for yourself to see these people as yourself. It's not going to look like that. First of all, it's going to look not like the way you thought you would get closer to that. It's not going to be like, well, now, you know, Shari's looking a little bit more like me now. It's nice, you know. No, it's more like Shari's going to look a little less like the way I kind of want Shari to be. People are going to start being, you know, not what I make them to be.

[44:09]

You have to go through this phase first, which is not so pleasant. The way of trying to engineer everybody's face into your face is more of the conventional world of delusion. That's not upright sitting. Upright sitting, you do not try to engineer this. By sitting upright, things are going to start to change, but not according to your plan. So this takes you to ultimate reality. Just that simple. To a place where everything's the same. Everything's the same means everything's yourself. All the things which are usually not you are now you. Everything has one taste. And so on. Okay.

[45:13]

That's... That's one kind of way to talk about the practice which can happen through this communion between you and the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas when you wish to practice. If you lose track of this, you probably won't be able to do the practice because you can't do it. Let her go. There she goes. There she goes. The raccoons are out early today. Well, there's this stranger under the stairs. Basically, only adult humans are really acceptable. So strange people don't... strange children.

[46:15]

Okay, so let's see, there was Luminous Owl, and then there was Brooks, and Helen, and then there was Kathy, and I think Rosie, I'm not sure, and Susan, and Bruce. How's that? Somebody else? And Sonia? Is that order okay? Do you accept that order? Okay, now I'm going to reverse it. So, this wish to be free, seems like there's so many ways that that can be impure that, you know, some gaining idea in that. The wish to really be Buddha without thinking that Buddha is something other than... Well, let's just take a simple thing. The wish to be free of suffering, can that be impure? Maybe it could be if it's just for me to be free. Just for me to be free. That's sort of impure. Yeah. But even that, I think Buddha will adopt you on that one.

[47:25]

Now, if you would wish to realize perfect understanding for the welfare of others, I think pretty much Buddha says, hey, that's just like me. You're my baby. I mean, that's basically it. And then, now we got that going, stand by for more Dharma. Maybe the first wish, naturally, the limited one, eventually, that would mean for anybody to... That's what the Mahayana says, is that the wish to be liberated myself, will naturally evolve into the wish to realize enlightenment for the welfare of all. It will naturally evolve. So you're convinced by the Mahayana. Okay, let's see. Next, maybe Brooks was next to him. Yes?

[48:27]

There's like that sameness. What occurred to me is that one of the things that was so, uh, was so, uh, striking about Charging Masters and Dinos is their, uh, difference. Their, uh, their, uh, mess. And that's the striking thing about Charging Masters is their uniqueness. their, what do you call it, their, what's the word, their idiosyncratic wave. Yeah, they were positively shameless. They're shameless? No, they're not shameless. Definitely not, not shameless. Well, they're not, uh, yanked around by the same kind of, uh, um, uh, education and, um, uh, views that, uh, simply take most people's lives. No, they're not yanked around. So, I mean, they're quite different, right?

[49:31]

They're quite different? Yes, but other people are quite different, too. It's just that when you look at the Chan Masters, for some reason or another, you see it, but you don't see that the other people, everybody is unique. But one characteristic I think that you can maybe find is that as people evolve in practice, they're willing to show their uniqueness more. A lot of people are unique, but they're unique about the way they're hiding their uniqueness. But everybody hides their uniqueness in their own style. Like some people, some people go, oh, well, I'm just like this little, or some people go, well, I'm just like this big, you know, all of that is just a front for hiding their uniqueness, but they hide it in their unique way. And the Zen teachers are like, you could say, they're the same in that they don't hide their uniqueness. And they're the same in that they all see the same thing.

[50:36]

And what they see is sameness. When you see sameness, you let yourself be different. You can then be your free to be, of all things, this weirdo. but before you see sameness you're scared to be you're scared to be fully who you are you're scared because you think them guys out there ain't you you don't see that they're all the same namely you now if we actually walked around thinking everybody was us and that was the conventional world then we'd switch into thinking everybody was not us and we were separate from them but that isn't the way the world is The world is that we think other people are... We think that other living beings are other, not us. When you see that they're all the same and that they're you, then you get to really be unique, idiosyncratic, eccentric thing that you always have been.

[51:43]

And you're not afraid anymore. And you're not hiding. So then your uniqueness and your idiosyncrasies seems so vivid, you know. People say, God, he really is that way. I mean, that like, that seems like what he is, you know. And they say, like, what he says and how he looks and what he thinks, it actually, that is actually, he's like that. It's wonderful, you know. We thank God. He gets by with it, too. And I mean, he's totally... And what's unusual is not so much what he does, but that what he does is so and not necessarily that cool you know he doesn't have very good taste you know or whatever you know his wife picks his clothes for him or you know he has or he's really into it and he's like super you know he's he's a real passion plate you know he's totally into his clothes you know he's like totally into it it's amazing you know

[52:51]

Like this, I think it was the Karmapa, somebody who was going to come to the West, and people said, he was wearing a big gold watch, and he said, you know, you better not wear that when you go to America. They don't like holy men to be wearing expensive Rolexes or whatever. And he said, oh, really? I said, well, I think I'll wear gold shoes, too. And I don't know if he really said that, but I heard that. Helen of Troy. Mumble, mumble. Thanks for the mumbles. You can't hear, right? Come on, Helen, get it out there. They want to hear you over here. Stand up and speak. Yeah? That is ultimate truth.

[54:00]

Ultimate truth is everything's the same. No. No. Yeah. There's no phenomena called everything the same. That's not something that happens. So what's the difference in the thoroughly established? The thoroughly established is, this is another topic, okay? We're acting this along with the one about the face, okay? There's different kinds of suchness, okay? There's worldly suchness, and, you know, suchness in the, called the conventional truth, and there is, What do you call it? There's suchness in the world and fears, and there's suchness in the universe.

[55:06]

The sameness is not a phenomenon. There's no phenomenon by which you all are meek. Is it assuming? Yes, what is it saying? No, but there's a discernment of sameness and there's a discernment of ultimate reality. Ultimate reality is quiet. It doesn't say same. But it is the same. And all the different phenomena are the same. It's not a phenomenon. The sameness of us is not something that happens. We happen. And we all happen the same way. And we're all not happening the same way. Um... It sounds like when you're talking about opening, it's like a substance of opening.

[56:12]

That you can't... Um... It's... That phenomena are not occurring. So you cannot function. Cannot function? In that world. cannot function in what world? Right. That's right. Got that? When you're looking at ultimate reality, you're not functioning in conventional reality. But as soon as conventional reality, as soon as there's a dependent core arising of conventional reality, Then you got beings. And you got beings who are deluded. And beings who are suffering. And beings who are crying out, I want to practice. So then immediately, the Buddha comes out of non-functional, non-functioning, into functioning in the world. No.

[57:15]

The appearance of the Buddha in the world is the process, is the whole process, is the whole drama of communion between sentient being and Buddha, such a sentient being understands suchness of the conventional world and suchness of the ultimate world. I shouldn't say alternate world. Simultaneously. Okay, let's see. Next is Kathy. Maybe it's Kathy. Do you want it to be Kathy? Okay. Are these Buddhist sponsors? Yeah. They need communion. Or they're communion. We're Buddhist sponsors. We're Buddhist sponsors. Is that our true nature?

[58:29]

Is that our true nature? Is that our true nature? Well, there's two true natures. One true nature is a conventional true nature, which is Ignorant, suffering, but also the truth is right there. Okay? Another true nature is that nothing happens. Another true nature. That's the ultimate true nature. The first true nature, which is a funny thing, again, I mentioned this, it's a true nature that can be refuted. You know, can be refuted because it can refute that anything's happening in it. That's it. No, no, you haven't even started to admit the truth if you deny your suffering. But even if you admit your truth and realize the process by which the conventional world works and see how that's an illusion and see how actually the truth is right there in the midst of the delusion, even in that case, this truth, how this all works, is refutable.

[59:35]

In other words, it's not ultimately true, because this whole thing doesn't really happen. It just happens by this miraculous process of dependent core rising, such that a world seems to be created. It's the constant production of things that don't actually exist. And that's called Abhuta Parikalpita, Parikalpita, imagination. And Abhuta means, you know, like, it's like wonderful, you know, rare, amazing, you know, it's amazing that we can imagine something that doesn't exist. Like some people say, you know, I think, I think you said something about, it really struck you that anything existed at all, or something like that, you know, it's like just, you know, it's just amazing that anything exists, and yet there is this constant sense that something seems to be happening. Okay? And, uh, There's truth in that, and also that both the truth is there of how that happens, how it's true that that seems to happen and how it happens, and what needs to happen for that to happen, and how delusion is part of how that happens, but it does happen according to that thing, and also how that's all, that that's covered up, and then also ultimate truth is covered up, all that's part of the world.

[60:59]

Bodhisattvas and Buddhas have the wisdom of understanding how that works, and they also understand how it never happens. But when we, ordinary people in the world, cry out that we want to practice, and we give rise to this thought, we are in communion with Buddha. Buddha is in the world then, and in the world of the Pentacle Arising, There can be dependently co-arisen enlightenment and dependently co-arisen delusion. And we have this dependently co-arisen conventional world, which gives Buddha a way to relate to sentient beings. If sentient beings are suffering and cry out, Buddhas have an opportunity. Let's see, who's next? I think Rosie. No, Elk is new. Rosie, Sonia, Susan, once. and Bruce, and then Elka, and Gordon, and Max, and Yehuda, and Sarah.

[62:07]

And that sticks us beyond the class, probably. Anyway, let's have the grocery. OK. So when you talk about the quality of conventional trips? Yeah, of the conventional, well, the convention of conventional trips, yes? Mm-hmm. Is the cloud of openness, what do you mean by delusion? Delusion or ignorance clouds over truth. It clouds over the way conventional truth. It clouds over the way things happen. And it clouds over the way things don't happen. But in the conventional world, you could take away the clouding. There's also the unclouded version of how the conventional world happens is also there. It's also being manifested.

[63:10]

But what's not manifested there in that world, what's not manifesting in that world, is that that world isn't happening. Okay? And without being manifested, we have to bridge that. In order for what to happen? Let me say that last part again. In the world, there can be the clouding over of how the world happens. But also in the world is actually how the world happens. It's actually there in the world. Happening in the world includes how it happens. The pentachorizing of the world is there. That's the other dependent quality of phenomena. It is there. That can be realized. But that is the suchness of the world. But you can't realize in the world how the world doesn't happen. This is the suchness of how the world happens.

[64:13]

This is the truth of how the world happens. And that is ultimate reality in a sense. It's really the suchness of the world. There's suchness in the context of the world. If you'd realize the ultimate truth that doesn't happen, there wouldn't be a world. So you can't realize that ultimate truth that doesn't happen. That can't be realized. No, you can't. You can't realize that suchness within worldly convention. Because then worldly convention wouldn't be there anymore. In the same world, in the same world, you can realize that the conventional world doesn't happen. It's the same world. But now you see that it's an illusion that it actually happens. But this Buddha Parikarpita, you see that it's actually so, that these things are not actually happening. You see the not happening part rather than the amazing that they are happening part. And then everything's quiet. Nothing's coming, nothing's going. Same world. You're standing here, you're sitting there.

[65:15]

Same life, same world. But for you, nothing's happening. You've realized ultimate truth. It is realized. You have realized it. It has been realized. This is complete perfect enlightenment. And if the conventional world is arising miraculously and beings are there and call out, you have a chance right at that time you're there. You're there when they call out. Back in the world. Next, maybe Susan? Susan or Bruce, I think, one or the other. How's it going? Are people calling this at all? I want to know about practicing this.

[66:21]

the thought of awakening arises. We're with Buddha. Yeah. And Buddha's with us. Matter of fact, that thought is Buddha. That's why it's called Buddha thought. Or Bodhi thought. And we sit down and we then look in minute detail at what's presented. Uh-huh. We sit down and we look at what's presented. And when we're upright, And we're upright. And one of the things that we're presented with is attachment, which pulls us off of uprightness and intimate music. You could actually observe, I think you can observe attachment in an upright way and not be pulled off uprightness. But in that, what is, how do we access the sense of support in that

[67:23]

being pulled off and not being pulled off and observing attachment. How do you access the support to continue to be upright when attachment arises? How did you access it in the first place? You said, I want... to be free of suffering. I want to realize, I feel this, you know, really strong desire to gain complete understanding so I can help people. You think of that, and sure enough, you don't, that you accessed it. There it is. I mean, if you actually feel it, rather than just sort of like grabbing for something to save yourself. If you feel that, then you sit there, watch the attachment, but you don't fall into it. You study it instead. The possibility of reaching out and grabbing it is there, but you don't. It's like, there it is, there it is, and the little grabber doesn't get out there.

[68:29]

Maybe it starts to go, but it doesn't get there. It doesn't reach it, and it doesn't reach here. It's just like happening, and then it's gone. So things arise, objects arise, but you don't get minded quiet around them. You have renounced trying to understand, trying to get anything. And when your renunciation starts getting weak, well, what was it again that everyone made the renunciation in the first place? Oh yeah, it was the examples of the Buddhas, the Bodhisattvas. So I think I'll do like what they did. When they were offered a temptation, what did they do? They said, hello. Hello. Is that so? Is that so? I think I'll do that. Bruce?

[69:30]

Yeah. I asked Vicky this same question a while ago. She didn't? Not anymore. I asked her, how can I Bob save all beings and eat it? It's kind of fuzzy. It's attached to it. I question my commitment. She said, I can't remember exactly the state, but she said it's best done in the second or third. It's best done in the second genre? Well, it can be done, yeah. Uh-huh. Unfortunately, she's not here. I was kind of hoping to engage her on this. Yeah, well, maybe when she comes back, you can get her to talk about it. I'd rather not discuss some hearsay. Yeah. Let's see if it was next. Maybe... Oh, God. Oh, Sonia. I didn't say invoking.

[70:35]

Somebody else did, but anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. [...] Practicing to be in the present is still time, right? But being present isn't. Being present is upright. You're not upright here. Being upright here, being upright in the present is leaning. But being present, being present and upright,

[71:38]

Somebody else can dial in the time. I'm not, like, choosing what time to be present. Now, if past and future come up, hey, hi. If present comes up, okay. Oh, it's present. Oh, okay. You still got that going, huh? Yeah? What was it? Oh. Yeah. I just said it. I just said it. You're present, and somebody tells you, somebody says past, you say hi. You know, you just say home. And you say present, you say home. Future, home. In other words, you don't activate the mind around past, present, or future. you renounce the path, present, and future.

[72:41]

Being present doesn't mean you hold on to the present. The present is something also that dependently coerizes with the ideas of the past and future. In the world of birth and death, in the world of birth and death, there's also the creation of time. Time is a What do you call it? A woman-made thing. So when these times are produced, you practice uprightness with them, you treat them the same as you treat every other phenomenon. Namely, if it's outside, you don't activate the mind. If it's inside, you don't call for side. And they gradually start saying, well, you know, You thought this was past, but actually, guess what past is? The past is really present. Get back in the past.

[73:45]

No, no, that's not upright. We're going to keep telling you. We're not what you think. We think this past is present. But actually, I don't mean ha-ha. I mean, congratulations. You have now been delivered the truth. Okay? Nice going. Thank you. Get an Academy Award. for being free of time and space. I think you were next. I'm not sure. Well, I wanted to ask or put into a way of speaking and see what you think of this sort of life thinking of. If I looked at it from, first of all, what you were saying about the voter simultaneously coming up with the desire. I find that interesting in the sense that a lot of times questions that are really deep and serious questions, I often feel you can't really ask that question without somewhere inside already knowing an answer, otherwise a question from the floor.

[74:49]

Going from there into, if you look at this from the standpoint of saying that I'm having a dream, and this is a dream I'm having, at some point in that dream, if possible, I might become aware that everything in that dream really is what makes me. And that nothing I do can be except through all these things. Therefore, I can't, there is no I. I is an impossibility for me to have. It is something my mind uses as a way of controlling or... I don't agree with that part. What? The last thing about I is impossible. I don't agree with that. Okay. Okay. I was with you for that point. I was saying, uh-huh, uh-huh. No, I say no. Because I can't, I, I is not impossible. Okay. As you know. All right. It's just that in the scenario you're saying, I is all those things. Okay. It's still I. It's just that you now have a fulfilled sense of your I now.

[75:53]

Okay. I thought of the I in the sense of being the fact that this is me. And that is that. And in that sense, that eye does not exist. That is only an illusion that I have. Right. But that illusion does exist. Okay. That illusion does arise. Yeah, yeah. So that exists. Okay. It is an illusion. It is an illusion. So are the things out there. Okay. It's just that now you understand that those illusions are actually who you are. Right. But at the same time now in this dream, if I now see that everything is me and that at the same time there is an emptiness in all this, so that this bell I realize then or I see or I'm aware then that this phenomenon and everything that is happening that is me is also empty yet at the same time me.

[76:55]

at the same time happen. So then maybe stage three happens, where suddenly I realize that actually what I'm having here is a dream, that none of this is really happening. And at that point, then you switch back to stage two, whereby, yes, this is happening as a dream, but nonetheless I am here in this, so therefore that is what I do. Yeah, this is a great opera, right? I know, I can see that's what you're doing. Helga? How do you accept Buddhas? How do you accept Buddhas? And me? How do I accept Buddhas? I say... Buddhas. Buddhas? Oh, Buddhas. How do I accept them? Like this? Like this? It's a belief. What? It's a kind of... It's my life. This is my life.

[77:56]

My life is how I... It's my accepting of Buddhas. Usually you have two children, like a statue, like icons... Yeah, sometimes I see those Buddha statues, like right over there. But sometimes I see you. That's... And looking at you is how... Right now, I'm looking at you. Looking at you is how I accept Buddha. Okay, but how will you explain this by work? How do I explain by words? I am now explaining by words. So, in the conventional world, they have form. In conventional world, you say that they have form. Yes. That's you saying that. That's you saying that.

[79:01]

I say in conventional world, they have the form, but not the form you think they have. Namely, they have the form, for example, of you talking to me right now. That's not the form you think that they have. I know there's Buddhist statues, but Buddhist statues are only one A very small percentage of the manifestations of Buddha, Buddhist statues, mostly Buddhas, are manifesting as sentient beings into practice. That's mostly others. That's most of their work. Of course they're working with the wooden statues too, but mostly they're working with you trying to understand Buddhism. That's the form, but that's not a form. That's not the form you think of in the conventional world. It doesn't look like a Buddha. It looks like Elka trying to practice. I just did.

[80:10]

I just suggested the form that they take is the form of your practice. That's the main way they engage in the world. Because Buddhas have no characteristics. Buddhas have no characteristics. Are they some kind of energy? Some kind of energy? If I say they're not a kind of energy, then I gave them a characteristic. Okay? Buddhas, ultimately Buddhas have no characteristics. But... Because of that, they also can enter the conventional world and they can be whatever form our practice is taking. They can also appear as a person who seems to be enlightened. They can be transformed into that. But the form of that person is not the Buddha. It's just the Buddha being transformed into that form.

[81:13]

The Buddha is also in each of us Man is coming into the world in each of us when we aspire to Buddha. But that's not, you know... There's no Buddhas. But in a place where there's no Buddhas, that is Buddha. That's what we mean by Buddha is no Buddhas. Right? Dhyana Sutra. If you recognize me by my marks, that's not me. You can recognize me by not having any marks. That's me. That's me to put it. Let's see it now. 10.30, even. What did you say? What did you say, man? I didn't skip over you. I didn't call on you. You're next. You're next and then Yehuda. And then there's some second timers. Any difference?

[82:16]

Not really. Unrelated. Unrelated. Bodhisattva is, you get to be a Bodhisattva even before you completely can enlighten you. You still be a Bodhisattva. You have to be pretty true. Oh yeah, that's not reality though, that's just complete delusion. They think it's reality.

[83:18]

But conventional truth is that you see that what you're seeing... Conventional truth is you see that what you see is not ultimately true. There are quite a few people who think that what they think is true. That's not conventional truth. That's not the truth of worldly... The truth of worldly convention is that what you think is not true, ultimately. You understand that. You still go ahead and think it. But you, you know, you're... You see the truth of it. You see the truth is that you're not really completely wise. You think this is good, but you're not completely sure it's good. Matter of fact, you're pretty sure you don't know absolutely infallibly if this is the correct thing to do. This is conventional truth. Some people, you may have heard of them, they think that what they think is actually ultimate truth. So if it's ultimate truth, they do these amazingly cruel things because they're sure that it's true.

[84:22]

You know what I mean? Like bombing abortion clinics. They know that it's wrong. They don't think, oh, I think it's wrong, but I could be wrong, so I better be careful. Maybe I should talk to them a little bit and tell them, you know, I don't think you're doing the right thing here. I think you're doing... Conventional truth is that when we see conventional truth in the world and when we understand that, we understand that what we think is clouded over because the very fact that we think things are happening, we're already suspect. But we still think they're happening. And we honestly admit, you know, I think Yehuda is in the room. I got to admit it. I think it's so. But I don't think that's, you know, if somebody says, you know, that's just some guy with a Yehuda mask on. I say, oh, really? Okay, let's see. I know that I can be wrong. Then I have a little wisdom. I have a little wisdom. Now, I can also say that even in my wrongness,

[85:26]

There's a truth here, a real truth, that I can be liberated with this truth. And it's right here in the same world. And my practice is in this world. The things I do, the practices I want to have are in this world. So it's in this world that I approach the ultimate truth. So this world is very important. To think that I can see the actual truth and that I'm not deluded, that's not conventional truth. And there are many people who do not yet understand conventional truth. For example, they think things are permanent and so on. That's not conventional truth. That's perverted nonsense. You say that, as we move on the loop of reality, that your graph of reality becomes less tenuous? Less tenuous?

[86:28]

Less tenuous. The graph of reality becomes less tenuous. Have you become familiar with conventional truth? As we move on the loop, Your grasp becomes less tenuous. Your grasp of what becomes less tenuous? Your grasp of reality. I would say maybe your grasp becomes less tenuous, but your understanding becomes stronger. Less tenuous would be strong. Your understanding becomes firmer as your grasp becomes more tenuous, becomes richer, shall I say? In the beginning, you think you have a grasp of reality. But as you understand it, you don't have a grasp of reality. Your grasp of conventional truth becomes better. Yes, that's right.

[87:29]

Buddhas are those who are enlightened in the midst of delusion. Okay, that's what it says, right? But they're also enlightened in the midst of non-delusion, too. You put a Buddha in delusion, they're enlightened there. They see it's delusion. But they also can hang out in non-delusion. So he also says there are Buddhas who are enlightened within enlightenment, too. So they're enlightened in emptiness, but they're also enlightened in form. They're enlightened in the world of illusion. They're greatly enlightened there. They study delusion. They know how delusion works. They're invited to come and give a course on delusion. So they do. But they also live and are enlightened in non-delusion, namely where there isn't any delusion. So they're enlightened in both realms. So we, if we want to have bodhisattvas, we need to be enlightened to both worlds. And in particular, we need to do the conventional one first before we jump to the ultimate, because going to the ultimate first is nonsense.

[88:36]

Dangerous and inappropriate. So we work on conventional first, and in conventional, Buddhas are very helping us. Okay, so we're all set. So I think, did I get all the first timers? Oh, oh, oh. Oh, it's a neat first time. You're a second time. Put that hand up. Sarah and Kendra. It was a simple question, but then you said this thing in that. But there's Bodhisattvas, you know, apparently... Well, some Bodhisattvas are completely in light. Right. But they just, you know, put on the ship for a little while because they have some work to do that they can't do with Buddhas. But there's some other bodhisattvas that aren't completely enlightened, but they're, you know, they're amazingly enlightened, but not completely. Do they suffer?

[89:41]

Yeah. Both of them? Buddhas even suffer. But they're free of it while they're doing it. They come into the world and they bite their tick, come into the world and they start suffering. They cry and stuff like that. They have problems. Buddha had spondylolisthesis, a sacral lumbar joint. So they get a body in order to help people sometimes. Or they come into our lives and our practice and they suffer with us. They don't need any separation, but they're free. Even though they're intimate with us in our efforts to practice, they're completely there in the middle of our suffering. So they're suffering, but they're free of it. So it's different, right? Is it different? Or are they really, they're being really intimate? Yeah, they're really suffering. And it's really different.

[90:44]

Oh, they can have cessation of suffering, but they don't do it in the world, dummy. Yes? They do it in nirvana. Nirvana's not the world. Yes, Kendra? Yes, Kendra? Pardon? Is sameness permanent? The sameness of the impermanent phenomena is permanent. You don't understand that? Well, guess what? Very few people do. And that's ultimate reality. You expect to understand that before you understand thoroughly conventional reality?

[91:53]

I mean, you won't be able to... Don't worry about that, Pindra. That's like, you know, ultimate truth. That's like big-time Buddha enlightenment, you know. You've only been practicing for a few years. You know, this is like the goal of eons of effort, you know. Maybe you've already done a couple, so maybe only one more to go. But anyway, you've got a lot of work to do here in the conventional world before you can understand ultimate reality. You've got to really be able to sit wholeheartedly upright and study until you really see that everything is the same. When you can see that, then you're going to start opening to that nothing happens. You don't yet see everything the same, do you? No. So when you start seeing that kind of thing, which follows quite a long time of studying with things not...

[92:44]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_81.43