Some time ago, I was talking to you about the middle way, wasn't I? Remember that, the middle way? The middle way. The middle way. Kacchiyana approaching neither of these views Neither of these views, the views of everything exists and everything does not exist. Relinquishing these views, I teach you a middle way. So the middle way is relinquishing views. So you see the middle way is emptiness. And to practice the middle way is to practice emptiness.

[01:02]

It's to practice relinquishing it is and it isn't. To relinquish those views is to live without holding those views. That's the practice of emptiness. That's the practice of middle way. Does that sound familiar? Does that sound new? I hope it sounds new and not just familiar. Because it is new. Oh, and today I brought my nitroglycerin. This bottle of nitroglycerin. Do you know nitroglycerin is for alcohol? Do you know what it's for?

[02:04]

What it's used for? What's it used for? For my lips? Wait a second. Just a second. I've got to get my glasses on. What did you say? Oh, nitroglycerin's for a bruise? You know what else it's for? It's for heart attacks. Did you know that? You take this if you're having a heart attack. So I have this bottle in case I have a heart attack. Okay? You sorry for me? Well, I didn't use it yet. I didn't use it yet, Elka. This bottle has not been opened. And I have some other ones. None of them have been opened yet. I just thought I'd mention to you that I brought it with me because I did. That's why I'm mentioning it.

[03:04]

The reason why I brought it is because I've been having some little funny pains in my chest. And also, I don't know if some of you noticed, but I was wobbling a little bit last night. Did you just notice me wobbling? A little bit swaying. I was a little dizzy. So I'm a little bit more on the edge today than usual. What? Yes, you did. But so did everyone else did too. I'm only asking you because I thought maybe you didn't know what nitroglycerin was because your English is, you know, you're not a native speaker. So I want you to know what nitroglycerin is when I bring it up so you understand. That's all. Does anybody else, everybody else knew about nitroglycerin? Pretty much? You didn't know. So this young lady here didn't know. Anyway. But you have been contributing to my heart condition. Thank you. Views.

[04:15]

Views. Views derive from a commitment... to opposite thinking, to thinking in terms of opposites. That's where views come from. A commitment, not just thinking in terms of opposites, it's a commitment to thinking in terms of opposites, like is and is not, self and other. Then you get a view from that commitment to thinking in these dichotomous ways. It's a tendency to see things, you know, in these basic dualistic terms and a commitment to continue that way of seeing things. And is and is not is the most poisonous version of dichotomous views. Sounds kind of abstract and it is. But although it's abstract, it's powerful. And this is and is not, this everything exists and everything does not exist, I brought it up at the beginning of the practice period and I asked you to look and see if you could find these views in yourself.

[05:28]

And so you've been looking to see if you can find the view it is or it isn't. Like this person is. And so you've been looking and finding some view that this person is. Not just this person, but this person is. Practice of emptiness is to relinquish that view that you is. Or that you isn't. Or that you is here and you isn't over there. It's to relinquish those views. It's a real good practice. It's called the middle way. If we have these views arising from these views, arising from these views, in other words, commitment to this way of dualistic thinking arising from this ignorance, well, this is how ignorance arises.

[06:29]

And then the fallout of this ignorance is what? What's the fallout of this ignorance? Well, that's, yeah. Dispositions. Dispositions. That's the immediate fallout. Dispositions. Dispositions. Dispositions in terms of activity. In other words, karmic dispositions. Habitual karmic impulses is the immediate fallout of these views, upholding these views. Okay? That's the teaching of dependent core rising. Dependent on this kind of holding to these views, depending on not practicing emptiness, holding those views, dispositions arise. karmic formations arise.

[07:38]

Now, when ignorance ceases, when you don't hold these views, when you relinquish these views of is and is not, self and other and so on, when you relinquish these views and ignorance ceases, then there is no occurrence, there's no arising of these dispositions. With the ceasing of ignorance, there's ceasing of the dispositions. And with the ceasing of dispositions, there is a ceasing of suffering. Okay, with the ceasing of ignorance is a ceasing of dispositions. But also you can see, and we mentioned before, that there is a ceasing of ignorance as a result of the ceasing of dispositions. So, and the ceasing of the dispositions is practice.

[08:41]

It's the actual activity of body, speech and mind which enacts not karmic formations. It's the actual way of behaving that practices relinquishing these views. It's the relinquishment of views in practice, in activity. So when these views arise and we attach to them, then attaching to these views sets up boundaries into what's important to us, boundaries in terms of what we regard. We know about interdependence, but we set limits on how much we're going to pay attention to interdependence because of these views.

[09:52]

We set limits on what we can do and what might be appropriate because of these views. Setting these limits is the dispositions. Letting go of these limits lets go of these dispositions. So when these boundaries that get set up on the basis of holding the views, we also let go of these boundaries. This is the practice of emptiness. This is the practice of emptiness applied to dispositions, which brings the practice of emptiness applied to views. Practice of emptiness applied to dispositions means that we relinquish not just our views, but we relinquish all of our discriminations. We relinquish discriminating thought, we relinquish discrimination Relinquishing discrimination is practicing wisdom, is practicing non-discriminating wisdom.

[11:04]

But Suzuki Roshi very nicely mentioned something like this. Non-discrimination does not mean you don't discriminate. Or non-discrimination does not mean not discriminating. It means you try to understand everything. Non-discrimination means you try to understand everything. I think he said something like that. Or he said, non-discrimination is to study everything. Or... No, that's enough on him. I would say non-discrimination is to love everything. As though... You were interdependent with it. So, in other words, there's nothing you don't study. Like, you know, this happens. Oh, well, I'll study this, but I'm not going to study that.

[12:10]

I'll try to understand this person, but I'm not going to try to understand that person. Or, I studied enough. It's enough study for me. Because I studied all these years and now I know quite a bit and I've studied enough. So, give me a break. So, anyway. Non-discrimination is to relinquish, you know, to relinquish your limits about what you do discriminate. So you do discriminate. But you let go of your limits. You relinquish your limits about how much attention you'll give to what you discriminate. So you have no limits.

[13:13]

You have limitless interest in your discriminations. And this way of being with your discriminations is non-discrimination. Now, I didn't bring this nitroglycerin so that you'd be easy on me. I just happened to bring it for other... You know, just in case I have some problems. But... It's okay. You can be gentle with me. It's all right. So... Yesterday I told you about this person giving up privacy, or talking to me about giving up privacy and giving up limits to our intimacy.

[14:20]

The practice of emptiness, the practice of relinquishing views is related also to, in terms of dispositions, to give up the boundaries between us, to relinquish That which is interfering with our responsiveness to each other. Like this big heavy thing here. It might get in the way. And you don't take water with the nitroglycerin. You just put them under your tongue. So if anybody needs any, I've got them here. I did not bring smelling salts. So, in the spirit of the Buddha Dharma, do you want to practice emptiness?

[15:33]

Do you want to practice giving up privacy? OK. So some people signed up for Dokesan, I noticed. And maybe those people who signed up for Dokesan could come up and ask their question in public. And then we can have a public case, a koan. So anybody that wanted to come for Dokesan can come up and ask their question now if they want to. This is a somewhat formal person. Dharma flag teacher.

[16:57]

You have a heart problem. I do? You do. What is it? But I have chest pain. Want to trade? How can we trade skims? put your skin on my skin and rub. Rub. I think there's some skin transmission there. It's not working. Hey, wait a minute. I didn't say it was going to work. Thanks for dropping by. Zen does become somewhat disheveled I have to talk to the tanto about this.

[18:00]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. You don't have to follow this example. Buddha, how should I put this devotion to you? Can you predict what I'm going to say? Give up your views of what devotion to me is.

[19:05]

What are the causes and conditions to do that? These are the causes and conditions to do that. And this. And this. And of course, patience for how long it'll take. to let go of your idea of what devotion to me is. And if you ever find out what my idea is, let go of that too. But start with your own. And it doesn't mean you shouldn't have an idea or a view of what devotion is. It just means you should not be attached to it. So as soon as your view of devotion arises, say hi, and then let it go.

[20:12]

Another one will come, which might be identical. And be grateful that you are at least considering Have the chance to consider that the word devotion arises in your life and that you consider it. That's great. And all you've got to do is not attach to it. How do I get up from here? How do you get up? You can crawl over closer. Crawl. Crawl this way. Crawl, crawl, crawl. Bye-bye. She's a buying machine.

[21:18]

No. But the people on DocuSound let's get better answers. Yeah, to wait for the laughter to subside. Home where? How much early? Today? I just did. What do I think? I wonder if you're holding anything. Definitely. Want to let go? No? Ah, geez.

[22:47]

Thanks a lot. Well, even if I let go, I'm still concerned. Definitely. I needed to say it. You sure did. You sure did need to say it. And now you let go? Great. Thank you. Pardon?

[23:53]

I think I'm on the list. You're on the list. Can I see your wrist? My wrist? Yeah. I actually thought of this before you talked about your heart condition. Okay, good. Is your heart beating? She says, is your heart beating? I am heart beating. It doesn't bleed very often. Way, way less than mine. It probably is. That's nice. If karmic dispositions cease, what is there left to study?

[25:06]

If karmic dispositions cease, what is there left to study? Let's see. You could study all sentient beings. Would you be able to see them without karmic dispositions? Can you see them without karmic dispositions? It isn't... that there aren't any karmic dispositions, it's just that they cease. Then they arise again? Then they arise again. It depends on whether there's ignorance or not. If there's ignorance, they arise. But ceasing doesn't mean there aren't any. Remember that? Thinking that there aren't any when they cease, that's another one of those views. There isn't anything. It isn't. So ceasing doesn't equal it isn't. It isn't is another view. I think I think that the people are in the kind of dispositions.

[26:17]

I think I think that's where the inherent view is. It's in the kind of dispositions. Uh-huh. Yeah. That's very interesting. Yeah. That was. I know. Yeah, that was, but the other ones weren't. Yeah. I knew I could get away with it in public. You didn't. We're going now. Okay, see you later. Jane asked you about going home. But where is your true home? With you. Are we here? I'm not, but you probably are. Well, if you're not, how could I be? You think you are.

[27:18]

Until proven otherwise. But you're welcome to prove that you don't think you're here. If you'd like to. Even if I think I'm here, it's really just home. Yep. And even if you think you're here, it's just a projection. So it's not going to kill you unless you grab it. I'd rather not grab it. I think that would be fun. you hear him okay no almost you couldn't hear him I'm sorry tell him what you said would you two years ago about a month my whole father

[28:26]

had a heart attack and died unexpectedly. Yes, I'm sorry. Come up and use the mic. So, two years ago, one month and about ten days, my own father died unexpectedly of a heart attack. He wasn't on nitroglycerin. And Since then I've been doing this little program here of studying the self. And I'm sort of amazed at just the amount of just obsession and aggression and you know, sort of constant neurotic thinking, just constant, it's just all the time, you know, just constantly steeped in it. So, which, I mean, isn't that bad, you know, things could be worse.

[29:34]

It's just, I could be, you know, like really acting out on all of these, and each one, maybe now I'm only acting out like 95%. but I could be acting out 100%. I would say it'd be worse if you didn't notice. Yeah. I feel like I'm an Oprah Winfrey. So I'm deeply touched that you notice this stuff now and that you have the patience that you have the gall to face how galling that is. That you have the guts to face what it's like to have that. And I hope you take care of yourself and can somehow continue to get used to facing this. What is taking care of myself? Well, practicing patience with the pain of what you see.

[30:37]

Being enthusiastic about this kind of confrontation with your views, being enthusiastic, thinking about how good it is to face this stuff, and feeling joy about facing this material, because it is really good to face it. Being concentrated on this, being generous with all beings, being careful about the precepts, all these kinds of practices are taking care of you so that you can study. Eating lunch you know, is taking care of you so you can study. Giving, letting yourself have lunch is taking care of you so you can study. All these kinds of things, kindnesses and support you give yourself so you can do this hard work together with all beings. Is there a practice for the fear of sort of overtaking me again or... fear of, like, the session being over, the practice period being over, or just, you know, what happens when you can't practice, or you become not willing to practice, or you find yourself really not taking care of yourself?

[31:46]

Well, if you find yourself not taking care of yourself, like someone was talking about boredom, you know. I said, what can you do when you're bored? And I said, sit back at it. You know? When you're sleepy, when you can't take care of yourself, face it. Just face it. Then that's taking care of yourself when you're not taking care of yourself. And that's exactly what Buddha is doing with you when you're not taking care of yourself. Buddha is with you, facing you, while you're not taking care of yourself. Buddha is not changing you into a person who is taking care of yourself. Buddha is with you. That's all Buddha is at that time. And that's Buddha's response to you. If you're like that, then you're taking care of yourself when you are not taking care of yourself. Is that helpful? Is someone not taking care of me when I'm not taking care of myself?

[32:48]

Someone is taking care of you when you're not taking care of yourself. Someone is. Is it helpful? Yeah, I mean, is there a real manifestation of that? Because I'm not doing it, so some mythical person in some other place is... Do you feel it's helpful? that Buddha is with you when you're not taking care of yourself. In theory, it seems nice, but... Yeah, well... Yeah, I think so. In theory, it's nice. So I'm starting to notice that I cause other people pain and other people cause me pain. I'm starting to notice that these are related, but there's still an idea of me causing them pain and them causing me pain.

[33:56]

So I can see the interdependence, but there's still people there. And so as a result, there's sort of this reaction of, still wanting to fix it. Uh-huh. Wanting to get away from these people or wanting to help these people somehow. Right. So, that's an example of wanting to fix it is the, you know, the disposition, the karmic formation in response to this sense of separation and then it's really there so that's you're starting to you're seeing the dispositions there you're seeing the karmic dispositions so can you start practicing when those arise can you start practicing letting go of that wanting the actual activity of trying to fix can you let go of that as it arises.

[34:58]

There's the impulse to fix it. You can start there. Without having that be another fixing, I can fix this by letting go. If you think that's going to fix it, then let go of that too. Until finally, you know, there's relinquishment, pure and simple, without adding again The idea that you did that relinquishment to fix it. That you relinquish trying to fix in order to fix. It seems like sometimes I have to just exhaust this. You know, it's like I just have to do it. No, it's just like... That's what it has to be. That's what it has to be. And letting what has to be be is relinquishment. That's like studying this process and paying attention to how it works, rather than think, you know, I don't have to pay attention to this, this isn't that important, or, you know, I've watched this long enough, now it's time to stop studying and start, you know, manipulating.

[36:13]

So, to watch the process until it exhausts itself, that's study. To get into theories about that it has to be this way or has to be that way, that's not really study. But that theory that it has to be this way or has to be that way, that should be studied. You're welcome. Do you listen to me, everyone? Do you listen to her? No. I can use my voice. She can use her voice louder. Is that loud enough? I love you. But... I love your Dharma and I love your spirit.

[37:14]

And I'm so thankful to you, but... But... I like your challenge. You are an old boxer, that's right? I'm an old boxer, yes. And I like your kids, and they're just in place at that point. But when you make something and to mock people, then there is a tear in my eyes. My question is, you know, where this rudeness comes from? Where does the rudeness come from? Yes. It's in the middle of existence, not existence. You're wondering, is it in the middle? I don't know. That's why I ask you how it comes from.

[38:16]

Well, could you give me an example? Yesterday. Yes. You were speaking about poison. Poison, yes. And the people that can spread the poison. The people spreading the poison? Yes, some people can do this. And several other times during your class, you make... Excuse me. With my mouth, okay. Yeah, it's like that. You mock people. Oh, I mock people. Just now, did I do it? So, I'm seriously speaking, and I suppose that you are seriously speaking, too. So... If I don't speak seriously, am I mocking you? Well... Depends. There are so many forms. You can express one in the same feeling in many ways.

[39:20]

In one way it can be aggressive, in another way the same you can be very friendly. Depends how you do this. That's right? Yes. So. And when this tear appears in my eyes, for me this is something like a reaction that my mind doesn't accept. It means that it resists to something. I can't combine this, so to say, gesture all of the things that I know and accept for you. Do you understand what I mean? Yes, yes. And want to know. Usually you are saying, I have heard. Yes. In this moment you have heard something or it comes from some another area, from another realm of your existence.

[40:30]

Do you understand me? I think so. But what I'd like to say is that, to me, the important thing is that if you see something and a tear comes, and then if that's good, if that's enough, then that's enough. But if you feel that some additional, another activity would be helpful, like coming and talk to me now, But that really, that's what we need. We need to respond to what we see as, for example, rudeness or mocking. If you can respond like this, you know, you're coming and asking me about it? Okay, this is not a special problem for me because I can deal with it. No, but I... Again, my question. Why you are doing this? I'm not doing this. No one person is doing this.

[41:34]

This is the whole world here. So in this moment all the world is mocking with some person in this zendo? If you don't see how it's all the world is mocking, if you see mocking and you think only one person is doing the mocking, You think the maka is coming from one place only in the world. It's all coming from this place. Then if you would interact with that, maybe you could find out that's just your view. And you and that other person can become liberated from this person seeing that person as the source of the activity. So now you're interacting with me about this, but I do not say that I am the creator of my activity. I do not... So it means that it's not the person, Tenshin Roshi or Rep Anderson that make this, that's right? It means that I don't see it that way.

[42:36]

But if all of the people see it in another way, where is the problem then? Where is the problem? The problem is if somebody thinks that what they see is true. It's kind of ignorance? I think ignorance is the problem, yes. But anyway, if you see activity which you think is me, whether you think I did it or not, you still have a response to it. No matter whether you think... he did it or not, you still have a response. And if you bring me the response, that interactiveness will liberate us. Maybe I have one other question, but thank you very much. You're welcome. And I'm sure that your pulse is not a rise now. She says, I'm sure that your pulse is not a rise now.

[43:39]

I'm going to be a formalist, so in your answer you can talk about things that are in this room. Which kind of student are you? A lot of both. A lot of both? I think so. Which one are you now? Are you one who understands and is practicing? Are you one or the other, or are you both of those? If you're both of them, then... Are you both of them now? I don't know. Oh. It's not really... It doesn't seem applicable right now. I mean, I'm sort of like... Like, listen to what you're saying, so I'm not... Right. So this is an informal question about something that doesn't apply now. Oh. I think it kind of applies for everyone in the room right now and at all times. It's just, I don't know how to answer it.

[44:48]

I would suggest that we talk about something that applies now. I'm curious about my question. I think it's starting to apply. And what is it about the question that you find draws your curiosity? What are you trying to find out? What's the crux here? The crux of the question. I think that often if I don't understand something, I want more of an answer. And I think that's good. And I want you to say, that's good. That's good. Do you like that?

[45:53]

I'd more like to hear what you think. You'd more like to hear what I really think than just having me say what you tell me to say? Okay. I don't really think. No, I don't ever really think. But thinking does appear, but not really. Okay. It's just, you know, something that appears. It's not really me thinking or really thinking or really me. But that's not what I really think. That's just my response. Honestly, that's my response. That's what came from my response.

[46:59]

And so it did. I usually come to Doksan with no question. I usually come to Doksan with no question. I just come in there and sit down. Yeah, he's walking with us.

[48:19]

It's deep gratitude. Deep gratitude arose? Yes. In the sense that we'll be walking, hand in hand, working hard, mind in mind, lifetime after lifetime. Please, don't postpone anything for the next lifetimes. What have you done this afternoon? I will... I'm overjoyed at the prospect of a life of not postponing anything.

[50:10]

This is much too much, too much. Can I come closer? When you provided this opportunity for us to come up and speak, my mind went blank in not an empty way. And I noticed that there's both a great desire to express and genuinely interact with you, and there's also a great fear which seems to block that expression.

[51:20]

How do we practice with that in a way that I can learn to genuinely express and genuinely be intimate with you? How do you practice with the fear? Yes. Do you feel it now? Yes. Come closer. Do you feel it now? Do you feel it now? I feel it. You do? Yes. Do you feel it now? It's there, but I don't feel it. You don't feel it? Have you gone numb? Do you feel it now? Yes. You do? Yeah. It was stronger? Yes. Really? It's like this.

[52:24]

This is how you go through it. Thanks for telling me. I didn't know. So every time you come, we can talk about fear. Until you're so intimate with it that there's no you in it. And then there's no fear. There's paying attention sometimes.

[53:30]

And there's paying attention and actually accepting what's there and what's left. Could you wait a second because there's this movement and I think people, it's hard for them to concentrate. Can you wait just a minute? And also I'd like to say that the people who are waiting, let's have them be the last people because I would like the kitchen to be involved. So after you two, then we'll stop, and then tomorrow we can do it again. If anybody wants to. Yes. Will you start over? There's paying attention sometimes. Sometimes, even less, there's paying attention and accepting what's observed as happening. Can you hear her okay? Okay. She said there's paying attention and sometimes, but less often, there's paying attention and accepting what you're tending to. But very, very often, there's paying attention and accepting when that's happening, but not an appropriate response.

[54:45]

So sometimes there's paying attention, accepting, but not an appropriate response. Right? Or perhaps the response is, perhaps there's a response but it's not expressed or it's not expressed appropriately. So perhaps there's a response and it's not expressed or it's not expressed appropriately. Okay? So, and this is the dangerous part, is that we're staying with what's happening. We're not saying, okay, this doesn't deserve my attention. And then we accept it. We don't say, this can't be happening. This is the practice of emptiness. But then there's a response and we say, it didn't happen or it wasn't okay. Okay? So we say, this was not appropriate response. We say, this was not an acceptable response. Okay? That is, again, the end of the practice of emptiness.

[55:48]

It's not... It isn't that you, when you let go of your views, then you say this is an appropriate response either. To say it is an appropriate response is also not the practice of emptiness. So at that point, you brought in your views and you said this was not okay. Now, if somebody else, if you didn't do that and somebody else said, dear, this wasn't okay, this wasn't helpful, you can hear that and you can respond to that and you can evolve. But when you say, this isn't a response, or this isn't an acceptable response, you've then kicked back into your dispositions again. This is part of learning how, is that you're moving forward into letting go of the dispositions, of relinquishing these habits, and then you come back in and hold on to them again. After you've made the first two steps, then you slip back. But that point of where you say, this was not an appropriate response, then the process of this practice was stopped, stalled at that point.

[56:51]

And I'm not saying it was appropriate response, and I'm not saying that there isn't inappropriate responses. I'm just saying that to say there is an appropriate response and to say there isn't an appropriate response, to say there is and there isn't are the views that block appropriate responding. There can be appropriate responding, but to say that there is or there isn't, that blocks... the actuality of appropriate responding. Okay? Can I say one more thing? Sure. If it's appropriate. Yes. You do? Oh, that's not. It's okay, go ahead. I just wanted to express yesterday... You want to express yesterday? I want to express that yesterday when I served you lasso and sour cream, I'm today very grateful you didn't take the sour cream. And at the moment that you didn't take it, I felt in my heart this tenderness for your heart.

[58:02]

And as I... went down the row with the lasho and the sour cream, I felt your tenderness of your heart for each person. And I felt it in my heart. See, it's really good that we eat together. Is there any problem? Is there any problem?

[59:07]

Is there any problem? You said that once already. Are you going to keep saying it over and over? I thought I was saying we had a great tradition of repetitive statements. Let go of that. It's like dog. Great. Thank you for going. You're welcome. Thank you for sending me off so nicely. Look at you. Hey. Well, maybe another time.

[60:18]

So, if you want to, the next two mornings we can continue this conversation. interactive form of Dharma Talk, a new show on station K-O-A-N.

[60:39]

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