I don't know what to say about the relationship between them living in the room. Either the way it's best for the fish. .

[01:43]

. Yep. If you are aware of your life, you may experience something like grief very often. You may experience some walks very often.

[02:45]

So in terms of some reference point that we discussed here, if you're aware, you carry yourself in such a way that you're going to manifest the permanent quality of all existence. If you experience yourself personally losing yourself and recreating yourself, If you can, actually, with your own, the way you carry yourself, your body's becoming, then what you're doing is you're restoring your philosophy about greed. You want that to just be part of it. But grief is spontaneously good. And the joy of new life.

[03:53]

That you don't have one without the other. An emotional reaction called grief, because it's some loss or death. And that comes from the exhilaration of new life. Life is not the same as death, and greed is not the same as joy. But, you know, it keeps not winning back together. So we don't think you shouldn't have greed, or you shouldn't have joy. We don't say if you have a baby, you shouldn't be very happy about the baby. There's no way to stop that feeling when you sleep and have a baby. And also, if someone died or you died, there's no way it feels boring. Ah, perhaps some human resource today. But what we suggest is that you always remember

[04:59]

If I read you last week, write in darkness there if you want. But don't try to establish you like any darkness. So write in that very book. But death is death in Berkha's book. Don't try to blend it together. They don't blend. Blending it just gets you. But in the recognition of the allowing of grief, emotional reaction to death, to be grief, and death to be death. And the recollection of it is just that. God's trying to bring the inhabitants into the grief. Just didn't breathe without death. That's what they call this joy. If you blend things, you want to see it's called this.

[06:11]

Let me see it as it is. Let me see the outline of it very clearly. You'll see that Greek is nothing other than children. As a matter of fact, Greek is always Because if you're defined by all the things it isn't, the grief is defined by joy, and the joy is defined by pain. And you like to be defined by death, and you like to be defined by life. But they're not the same. So then, it's all when you're in grief at a good moment, and you enjoy the moment. You also are not shocked by the joy. You're not shocked by the joy. You teach emancipation from the correct situation.

[07:11]

So there could be a voice inducing the mix of pre-prohedral. But still, there will be some reaction to loss. If there isn't, if there isn't, well, that may be the case for the moon, the sun days, shouldn't it? Otherwise, you deny the world. If you deny the world, then you will master what arises. So you might as well just be, you might just say, oh, happy. You better be forced on it. You better be forced on it. You better be forced on it.

[08:11]

You better be forced on it. [...] Famous story, the famous Chinese philosopher John [...] Frank thought it was very disrespectful. He didn't know that, but Dwight Dillon. So it looks like kind of laughing it off. But still, he didn't go up behind the house and bang on the box because of it before. He just didn't. But even the great philosopher had this some emotional reaction.

[09:12]

But that singing and giving the pot doesn't mean it wasn't affected by its worst death. But it means that it had some emotional reaction, but it was that kind rather than perhaps the usual. But it could have had you, but it didn't. If you're free, you could be 49. You could also be 100. But you can't read the unusual and freeway unless you could, by coincidence, do the ordinary thing. Most of the time, with ordinary. Most of the time, just reading. That's one level of grief. The other level of grief, I remember a story of A friend of Zen Master was giving a lecture, and a woman was down in front of him, and she was crying during the whole lecture.

[10:18]

She was sobbing away. And after the lecture was over, he said, what's the matter? She said, there's a friend that was told her to come to lecture because she had been briefed for months. Her son died. And as you know, as you may know, Apparently, this child is thinking about the biggest, most crushing thing that would happen to you in this life. When my daughter was born, one of the first things that dawned on me was that you never know how much your parents love you until you are a parent. Before that, they said they loved me or anything. Yeah. I should. I know the truth. When you have your own child, then you know what they're talking about. You couldn't have thought about what would be right.

[11:21]

You don't know what they need. Then you know what that simple of afraid is. They unite and move to your child. You can see that they're top of the line in Greek. At all ages, they're a lot young and they're losing one of their most wonderful and precious wonders of joy, they say. But if you lose them when they're old, when they know all their bundles of joy, but they're bundles of suffering, you've become friends with them over all the years. And any time you lose it, it's a crushing event. So this woman, she lost her son. And the funny thing is, she told this guy, she said she was grieving because he was so hungry. He was so wonderful. I lost him," she said.

[12:23]

So he turned it around, and he said, well, he's so wonderful. If he was such a fine son, why did he do this to his mother? If he really was that good, He would have left in such a way he knew he carried on his life very well, and he was full of joy and composure and dignity. But he was very ungrateful and unkind son because he died and put you in a shape like this. So he must be a bad son, very bad. And then he turns again and says, Because, you know, because you are suffering so much, your son, you must be helpful for what he's doing to you. Now, if he was really a good son, you would be happy. You wouldn't be creepy.

[13:30]

You'd be full of joy. So, you can pull your son out of hell and put him in a very excellent state by not only saying that he was good during his life, an inspirational person during your life, but even during his death, even during his death, thinking of him, lives you and encourages you and makes you happy. Only good makes you want to help other people and so on and so forth. So if you really have a fine son, that's in English to drop your thing and relieve the burden on him. Then he went on. She dropped a leaf, she stopped crying, she cleared up. And then she said something like, I can't remember exactly what she said, but it was something to the effect of, well, I learned my lesson, and I'll keep this in mind for the rest of my life. And he said, wait a minute, that wasn't enough. That's just the first step.

[14:35]

Drop this unnecessary emotion. And then the next step is, to realize that she's totally free. She's actually good at it. Next step. The first step, if you're crying, you should just clear that up. Then, the next step is to realize that we're even better than that. Not just for your emotion, but for everything. But the first stage is to calm down a bit. So this teacher, all he ever taught people was, I don't think I told him this, but he practiced extremely hard himself. He almost showed himself when he was a young monk. And he often didn't say, hi, he might be a teacher.

[15:39]

thousands and thousands of disciples. But he said, because I was unfortunate, I did not meet a clear-eyed teacher. I engaged mistakenly in extreme austerities and broke my health. But I did come to realize the unborn Buddha man, but my austerities actually were a dead end. And then one of the monks said, well, he said, all you need to do is just simply realize that all the things that you impose between yourself and your white man are your own creations, and you don't need to hold onto Why do you do it?

[16:41]

Just simply realize that you are inseparable. Only one. Just don't take seriously all the disbeliefs you have that you're enlightened. You simply realize you're beautiful right now. That's it. How can we do that? Because you've worked so hard, you know. It's easy to be used to it or not. It couldn't be that easy. It's impossible to be so easy, isn't it? It must be hard. Then you give the story of some people traveling through a rough land and running out of water and food. And most of them staying together, one of them going off ahead in search of food and water. And he travels to great vast waste and has a very difficult time. and finds water or whatever they need, and comes back to them, somewhat worse for wear.

[17:43]

And he gets them the water, and they drink it, and they're nourished. They didn't have to do the same trip he did. One of them, in fact, had to do their trip, whatever distance was necessary. But not all of them have. This particular teacher, Blanche, he had to make that trip. That's the way it worked out for him. But once he pounded the water, he just saved people and told them to drink it. They didn't have to go to the same trip they did. They took the drink and drank it, but they still had some resistance to it. And this woman who had the grief, that kitchen was not suitable for her and her state. But after she dropped her grief, then she could receive that parent teaching. But she wouldn't listen to such talk when she first came.

[18:46]

She was too much preoccupied with staying there soon. So they're very responsive to these kinds of situations. Think of what level of the problem that she So in some cases, some people are not, you asked me, Debra asked about what's our response to mental illness, psychosis, whatever. It turns out that Buddhist practice is not necessarily suitable for certain people, or for certain people, or even for us in certain states that we get into.

[19:52]

However, Buddhism does not forsake or disregard people for whom the teaching is not appropriate. Our usual policy with people for whom the teaching is not appropriate is to do something to encourage them to get themselves in a place where the teaching will be acceptable. Have you heard of these six realms of six worlds? Human world, divine world, the world of deity, the god. world of what we call titan, world of hungry goats, world of animals, and world of gut. These are sort of short-hand or summary of all the different varieties of states that beings come through. And we human beings can all six. If you're in hell and you hear about Buddhist teachings,

[21:03]

For example, the first truth of Buddhism is life is suffering. Well, you're suffering, but you're so debilitated by your suffering that you're not better fine, but clearly life is suffering. If you're in an animal realm and you're life is suffering, you're too pregnant to accept it. If you're in a state of what we call hungry ghosts, which is basically a state of insatiability. If you hear life is suffering, once again, you can't make use of it because you're in this thing of pushing your pleasure so hard that you make the standard of pleasure so high, you make the standard of satisfaction so high that you can't be satisfied. And therefore, you turn this at first. But you're insatiable, because you made yourself unquenchable, because you only left certain things satisfied.

[22:14]

So if you get a Buddhist teaching to it, it's irrelevant. Human beings are best suited for Buddhism. By human beings, I mean human beings who are in a state you call human, which is typified by a mild, constant state of navigation. At that state, you're not characterized by fear. You can be satisfied to some extent, but always a little bit off. And you're not really in great torment. And when you hear the Buddhist teaching in that state, it's pretty much what you can hear. And you're not afraid to hear it. You say, yeah, I can see that. For example, I used to go to prison. And people there, I generally, especially the ones in the classes that I did, they're in pretty good shape.

[23:26]

and various other things. There was people dying. And the ones who were in the car city were able to be more positively looking and responsible members of the person. And they're kind of in the human realm. And if you say to them, life is such a great thing, they say, but I don't know. But if I said that to them in the state they were in before they went to prison, they had about 80% of my drugs when they said that. I would start to talk to you about getting out of my way. So we don't give the Buddhist teaching people in these states of woe. What we do for people like that is we act in such a way as to knowing how people kind of respond.

[24:31]

We present them something that they'll respond well to. So if they're in hell, we put salva on their burns. That's not exactly Buddhist teaching, but if you put salva on their wounds, on their burns, The chances of them looking at you with some sense of gratitude is somewhat increased, perhaps. The chances of them thinking, gee, that was kind of nice. I'd like to do that myself someday or somebody. They might think like that in hell. And if they think like that in hell, that's exactly the kind of thing that lets hell fulfill itself and go away. But you can't do it in teaching, but you can help them. You can be kind to them in various ways so that they'll get themselves out of that situation.

[25:35]

With a person who's insatiable, you can point out to them the structure of their insatiability. And by doing that, they may be able to get themselves out of that, too. And then finally, the current state of the shooting state. So we don't abandon people. We don't give them teaching. We just try to get them back to your center, the center of gravity of their existence, wherein basic suffering is very obvious. Could you explain a little bit what you mean by the structure of their insatiability? Well, for example, I didn't see this movie, but I heard about it. There's a movie called There were only the five senses that was called in Japanese. It was about these people that had sex together, and they just kept helping what they did for fun.

[26:41]

So that's very common now. First of all, you kiss somebody, and then you have sexual intercourse, and you start back all kinds of accoutrement, as they say. Right? You start wearing little hats or something. You think to make it a little bit more fun, right? I got that impression from that middle. She said, I don't dig that, what is it, you know, it's too much a kitchen water. Anyway, people get into that, and after a while, I suppose, you know, without the various paraphernalia, you know, they just can't get it on. And then pretty soon, even that works. So in this movie, what finally winds up is that the only way she can get excited is that I get this, I don't know who does it to who, but they practically strangle each other in the process.

[27:45]

And that's almost killing each other just to be quite a .. I guess she kills him, chokes him to death or something. And after extra troops, since that's not too interesting anymore either, since you did that, she cuts off the genitals and wears them in a fetish or something. Anyway, that's the next step. But then she's sort of, that's about it. She's put herself sort of in the ultimate box. And now nothing's much fun. So the structure of insatiability is just that you take some human situation, food, sex, sleep, and you push it. You push it and push it until finally nothing ordinary will be satisfying. And you're constantly searching for these unordinary events in order to satisfy yourself. But even if you're completely free to do nothing but that, you still can't get it.

[28:48]

So by your own manipulation, you get yourself in a situation where simple things, which still aren't completely satisfying, because even in a human situation, they're always a little off. The ice cream will never taste like you expected. It's never what you imagine. The desired thing is never achieved. But the frustration is most people are willing to work with that. Most people stay there and keep working with that. But some people get another SP call. They change to try another thing. And that's the process that leads to insatiability. Point this out to someone in the United States, skillfully, usually by finding some way The way to stop pointing it out is you can find some way to... The easy way to point it out is to find some way to give them something satisfying. So it's a famous story of the, you know, the fat proofs.

[29:55]

Had the best foods in the country. Finally, he couldn't eat anything. He wanted all of the world to try to find something good to eat. He'd find this guy and said, I had the best food in the world to eat. And he made it worth all day. And you finally gave them dry breath. So if you could take somebody in that state and put them through some kind of activity such that they could experience satiation again, then that would probably imply the structure by which they became insatiable. But you can also sometimes point it out to them because there's some rhythm in their hunger. But you can't point out, actually, in some sense, an inconsistency. But you can't point out too much, because otherwise it becomes a teaching. So actually, maybe I was wrong in saying that you would show them the structure. The structure of insatiability is something off of their human. And for someone who's insatiable, you should insatiate them to some extent. And that would always be something less than what they're used to, because they've rendered themselves insatiable.

[31:05]

find some other means, probably to the ones that they chose off, to make them so satisfied. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it makes much more sense. Equating it with dissatisfaction helped. What if the dissatisfaction was a kind of spiritual hunger and the person was someone who went to this teacher and went to that teacher trying to find the satisfaction for the spiritual needs? Yeah, it's possible to become a ghost for spiritual teachings. Well, I think the nature of the Well, the first thing that occurs to me is you should probably think what would help them would be to play right into their thing to an extent.

[32:30]

in other words give them something that they were looking for but what you want to do is give it in such a way that they give rise to some kind of thoughts which would free them from the kind of thoughts that got them in there not free them entirely but free them in a relative sense in order to bring them back to the basic human situation of suffering and How would you do that in that case? If you use that folk tail, you might be able to get them to do something

[33:39]

not directly related to it, with the promise of what they were looking for. Because in some ways you can't give them what they're looking for because of the way that they're thinking. They set up criteria which by definition can't be met by any ordinary teacher. So, but they might, but they still might believe that it was possible to arrive at this thing that they set up which they can't get. So they might be willing to do something in order to get this thing. But you shouldn't give them, you shouldn't show them what you've got because they won't be satisfied. But promise something. And then make them do something in order to get that. And this thing that you would make them do would be something that would clear up their mind enough so that they would see the foolishness of what they were expecting, how probably by the nature of what they were expecting, they put themselves in a state of woe.

[34:48]

They'd get them to do some kind of clarifying activity for this impossible goal. And then they would see how that goal that they're going for is actually that structure of wanting something that pushed way out of shape. In fact, can never happen, and then you just never go at that level of concern, and move back with the more subtle discrepancies of what we call human existence. And so then you would have to have, I guess, the skill to to sincerely offer them something which they wanted, even though you know that they could never get it because of the way they set it up. And then also have clarifying practices, which they would do willingly, which would require a concentration on something.

[35:55]

All these states are basically different varieties of comparison. They're all built on comparative thinking. In hell, the comparison is a very big discrepancy, huge, awesome astronomical discrepancies between what you want and what you have. And the human realm that irritates me closely, but irritates me far. There's always a possibility of success. So never quite give up trying, but it's also a little bit too far to be comfortable and blissful. There's a state called the divine state, however. The discrepancy is so small that it's ecstatic. But it's ecstasy glitz.

[37:04]

And if you're attached to that state, and it ends, then you feel like you're in hell. Because being separated from that very close, tiny gap seems a huge just by the way you think about it, by the way you calibrate the . So people go from bliss to health. We use common roots to health. Drug states are like heroin or something to the other side. Heroin state. I don't know. I never had that one. I think . There's a small irritation factor. Pretty much what you want to get. They realize that they think that they should do it. They think they get what they want.

[38:05]

But then, when it ends, of all people that don't have what they want, they're the most deprived. Wherever they're not in session. Because they don't keep trying to get better and better heroin. Usually it's an uncommon route to go from bliss to the hungry ghost step. That's an uncommon route. It's usually from bliss to human or bliss to hell. It's usually from human to the hungry ghost step. It's not becoming for a cat. The best way is to stay in humans, pretty much in humans. That's the optimal learning situation. Of course, this human situation gets the name of being called human situation.

[39:09]

So for humans, of course, we recognize that state. But still, even for other beings, even the dogs and cats, the trees, they'd often experience a human situation. where you're actually not too upset. And if you lose the human situation, you don't want to color it. You're not particularly attached. And you have some basic motivation to, in that state of mind, you have some basic motivation Almost all human wisdom is geared for that sake. And as I mentioned, it's auxiliary activities to bring people back from where they can receive the high teachings. So the human realm is

[40:14]

It's the best one to start with. But if you do go to the other ones, which we often do, then there's a change. You should make it much longer possible. Because we should be able to enter those realms eventually without being intimidated by it. Otherwise, we'd be afraid to go and help both beings or eating each other. But a perfectly good scenario for the path would be the same human being would tell you to thoroughly understand that. And then with that kind of insight, just go into the other ones with insight. You could just dial mute them. You can create them. And if you're clear, you can see how you create them. And when you visit that, let's say, a bee, And again, each one of these states is nothing itself.

[41:24]

Each one of these states is just characterized by not being all the other five. The titans are characterized if you see these willy life sometimes. The titans are also called fighting beings, they're fighting spirits. They're often trying to fight their way into the day of a realm. And their beings, in some sense, there's two ways to look at them. One way is that they're They're trying to attain meditational bliss, like good words, and they can't do it. They're actually higher than humans in a way, that they have a more enjoyable form of existence than human beings do. It's less irritating. But because they get in that state by diligent application of the diligent orders, rather than by yogic engagement, they can't go as high as they look around.

[42:41]

But they kind of get in. It's just merit. Well, the other one's merit, too. But it's more so than that. Examples of this kind of people and common examples would be very successful business people, people who had very great worldly traitors and worldly power. This is talking about these people as they achieve, not after they are holding on to it. They start to hold on to it, they go to hell. or a human, or . The titans go to all of their levels. They never go to heaven. And anyway, extreme power situation.

[43:43]

They're titans. They're very powerful. But they can't have the sea of bullets of the book called . And there are people who don't. Okay, you know, you probably, you know, most of you have an accident that any day without. What are they doing? Realms of bliss. Realms of mundane bliss. Realms of, how, really permanent, transient bliss. If you have insight, you can visit such realms without attaching. And, uh, Or you can visit the trials attached and then go to hell. Just pick that route. Also, if you kind of anger, anger is a prototype, a structural prototype for hell.

[44:44]

The anger goes, says, this and this are far apart. If you murder someone, that's an anger that you put the person way away from. You say, this isn't a family member. You make tremendous distance between yourself and the other person so it's okay to murder them. That's the prototype for hell, that kind of distance. So when you experience that distance that you put between yourself and someone you've murdered, that's both hell. The experience of that kind of thing to yourself. So these states are just the ramifications of the retribution of certain forms of plot. They're what certain forms do I like when you feel them, rather than you think them. So in sitting, for example, next week we're having a Zen Center who says she will sit all day, 40 minutes per 8 o'clock.

[45:51]

16 to 24, 40-minute periods, and we're all going to sit during meals. So we'd have breaks, but basically we're sitting 20 hours a day. 20 hours a day, 16 to 20 hours we're sitting. It varies with different individuals, according to certain other duties they have. And during that time, it's possible people getting help during this time. They experience hell. They say so. They say to themselves, this is hell. Afterwards they say that was hell. And this comes from, you're sitting there, and you decide to get very angry at your situation. And then they can feel it, and they feel it, so they can actually, sitting right in the cushion there, they've been... They can go to hell and they can also go to all the other realms just sitting in it totally.

[46:59]

And you can also go there, did I say you can also go there as a, with, you said it would be attached. Yes. In sitting Zen, is there anything equivalent of the Kundalini experience or Kundalini energy? And if someone experiences that in meditation, how do you advise them to complete it? Are you familiar with Kundalini experience or Kundalini energy? Why don't you explain what you mean by it? Well, the Kundalini is, according to the yogic philosophy, is the energy which moves from the base of the spinal cord up through the spinal cord.

[48:03]

And what people refer to as Kundalini energies is... When the body starts vibrating, you feel a burst of energy at the base of the spinal cord, and it rises up. And people who are blocked in certain areas of the body tend to experience this fairly violent thing. And often it's accompanied by sensations of great heat as though your skin is burning. People can cry or become hysterical or laugh or A whole different set of manifestations can happen, but it's basically this, the energy is spoken of as the Kundalini energy. Well, another thing is, what should I bring at this point?

[49:08]

Yes, we do have experiences like this, but in a given meditation hall, let's say 70 people sitting there, maybe one or two of them would be shaking in a Zen meditation hall. And there's a variety of different kinds of shaking. Some of it's Kundalini, some of it's not. But one of the main If you don't watch what you're doing, you spoke of that the energy sort of rises, and then meditation would put a lot of emphasis on sitting up straight so that you feel as much as possible a good communication between the top of your head and the bottom of your spine. So as you're saying, if you're blocked, there can be some problems.

[50:22]

For us, getting a hot dead is a real problem, which means thinking a lot of just actually heat it, too. In that case, we try to help the student, bringing energy down from the head into the lower part of the body. And one of the main ways to do this is to mix pray. and just sort of let it feel like it's flowing down the back of your neck, down your back. The other way to do it is just to put your attention very much here. And so our sitting and our sitting will try to keep hot down here and cool up here. So in some sense, where our emphasis is down, and some put in these systems, the emphasis comes up But I think you could justify it by saying that when it comes down, it keeps any energy that is in the upper parts of the body, it keeps them balanced.

[51:40]

The Kundalini way of talking about it is that the energy rises and is integrated as it goes up. So it never causes much trouble. In other words, it doesn't cause a lot of heat. It's integrated as it goes up. If it's integrated all the way up, then that's proper yoga. And that's integrated at each point, at each chakra as it goes up. This is the opening of each well. The other way of putting it is that If all these levels are cool, then they're integrated, too. So the energy is there. We're from the point of view, the energy is there. And if you just don't let it get overheated, you actually are opening up. This is made a difference in Chinese and Japanese. I mean, Chinese and Indian way of expressing the same thing. One's more articulated, one's more background. And if you go to Udanpo, let's say if you went to a Muktananda ashram, I think you'd find a high percentage of the people are shaking.

[52:55]

And this woman who's not here tonight, somebody saw her shake. At the end of Mollapirajit, look at that, did you see it? Well, she studied Kundalini Yoga. So how much of that is just sort of they get into it, and how much of it is that they unleash that, I'm trying to say. Anyway, at Zen Center, it's like not quite frowned upon, but something like that, to be shaken. However, if they do shake, they're not psychedelic, but they've been shaken for years. And often, they're pretty good students. It shows all that's going through you, but just And even in the Krinolini school, their ashrams, they have a turn toward people who don't care, called the solid ones or stable ones. And the other ones are sort of regular ones. And you get the impression that the ones who sit still are less common than the ones who move.

[54:02]

And it's vice versa. It's a dense. I don't know exactly what to say, except that I, for example, went to a guest teacher for a couple of months, a year or so, teaching Zen meditation. And I went to a Pranayama workshop. But it was what this Pranayama workshop could also call a regular workshop. wherein they recommend you do this heavy breathing lying in the back, hyperventilation. And so anyway, people do this hyperventilation, and whatever it does anyway, if they do have blocks, they experience a block very strongly in this hyperventilation activity.

[55:07]

Sometimes they try to get bands, steal a band around their chakras. And they recommend that if you run into any of these blocks, you just keep breathing. And they say, it never hurts. It either will break or it won't break. If it breaks, it's fine if it doesn't get it back for you. And I guess if it's in the throat, they sometimes do something to help you, because you can choke. But otherwise, they just let you push. Anyway, so I did it with the other people. And I laid down, and I started breathing. And the breathing went on. They also had music, but the breathing went on. I heard people start to cry and moan, and they start screaming, screaming, wailing, screaming. And I heard people crying like, they ain't anything.

[56:12]

But I was breathing. Also, they asked you beforehand, do you want to just try this out, or do you want to really do it? Some people just want to try it out. And so they just breathe at their own rate. And if they breathe slowly, the partner just lets them breathe slowly. But if you say, you really want to do it, then if you don't breathe hard, the partner says, you know, point to some part where you're not breathing as much and says, breathe harder, breathe harder. Anyway, I breathe very hard. They're proud of me. What are you doing when? You didn't know. I didn't want to. You didn't experience me. I didn't experience me. But I just... Some of them have me. Also you have experiences of past life and things too.

[57:14]

And strange visions of Egypt and... Anyway, I'm pretty sure I breathe harder and longer than anybody should. Because I just kept breathing until they would do more noise. When everybody was quiet and soft, then I stopped. And, you know, it all worked. And then I... One of the things that happened to me, which I thought was very interesting with my hands and my sides naturally went like this. They're just like lobster hands, crab hands. It's very powerful. And then they wanted to do that. They didn't want, it was like, without doing that, it's like my fingers were shooting out energy like that. And that seemed not good. So I went like this, and that came back in. But that was about it.

[58:15]

That was about it. Couldn't do it like Toad. So then when everybody was pretty quiet, I just sat up and I crossed my legs and sat up like this and I felt very good, a very pleasant kind of feeling. And then that night they had a session and talked about what happened to it. Everybody had fantastic visions and break through it. All this wonderful stuff happens to do this kind of test because she isn't so much. And I felt a little embarrassed in it. So I went to what happened to me. They can also, particularly the leaders of the core of the thing were sort of wondering what happened to me because I was just breathing. Nothing happened. And it wasn't that I wasn't trying.

[59:17]

Some people breathe. a little bit and then nothing happens. But I was breathing. And the person with me is a Reiki person with my bodyguard or whatever, a Reiki therapist. And she said, after she saw me breathe, she said, I completely changed my whole idea of Reiki therapy. I said, I didn't know anybody could do that. And I was her bodyguard that afternoon. And she breathed about three times and she was just flying all over the room. And then just immediately, immediately into all kinds of... So my theory is that if you sit day after day, hour after hour, year after year, and you sit there and just sit there and breathe, and breathe, and breathe, and watch it breathe, and watch it posture. The same thing happens, but you don't even notice it.

[60:21]

You do it, but you don't make anything out of it. It's just ordinary to you. And if you turn up the throughput after many years, it just goes right through. There's nothing. It's all sort of The water has run over the rocks enough so that there's no rapids that just goes through. And there seems to be a face. A lot of people program themselves to have an experience. I think they feel that part of doing some kind of spiritual practice or attaining enlightenment has to be something accompanied by a lot of fantastic visions and a lot of weird experiences. But even I felt a little embarrassed to have nothing to say.

[61:28]

Did you tell them very quickly? I told them, like, that's pretty fire. Nobody else mentioned that. They were very impressed. They thought it was interesting to have someone who had a different type of experience. For me, it was just, to me, it was just low experience. When I sat up after sitting, after doing that, after breathing like that, um, I felt, you know, I felt very open. I felt my torso all open. And when I was breathing, I really felt, you know, tremendous. You know, if I close my eyes, which you're supposed to close your eyes, if I close my eyes, which I did, according to the instructions, I felt, you know, very, very tall. I felt like a huge silo, or, you know, baffled, bettering up and down. So that was a nice feeling. But to me, it was just all this yoga, just body, mind, big together, which was a different way than usual, but not so unfamiliar, but just sort of intensified.

[62:35]

And most of the people in the classes were not yogis. They hadn't been practicing yoga for many years. So for them, to hyperventilate like that for 10, half an hour, 40 minutes, for them was a big change in throughput. So I think most of them had a big effect. Some of them resisted and didn't have much. As a matter of fact, I drew a little drawing, which, again, it wasn't very fantastic. But it turns out it was what's called Sri Yantra. Because when I exhaled, I felt like what I felt like exhaling was I felt in the cylinder, I felt like the air was not air, but triangles. I felt like the air was like triangles going down and receding. And then at the end, And then the triangles came back. So I drew a circle and drew a picture.

[63:39]

They gave you a circle to draw, but I just drew these seven triangles. And then I did seven times the other way. And that's how many triangles there are in Sri Yantra. But I turned the colors around. from what the way they usually do in Sri Yantra is. Because when I was XM, I felt like XM was dying, so I made it blue. So I had the ones going down being blue, and the ones coming up right there felt like this new air, new blood, light, and made them red. But in Sri Yantra, they turned around the other way. Otherwise, it was exactly the same thing. But it's not fantastic. It just simply is the way I felt. No reaper. So I think that all these experiences are included, but we try not to make too much of a deal out of it and try to handle it and also try not to minimize it.

[64:41]

You can tell a person it's not happy either, but as much as possible just to not get too excited about it and try to contain it within the posture if possible. Also, in Zen medication, I don't know if I'm mentioning this, but when you breathe through your nose, it should not be audible. It should be soft breath. And that's probably because we sit together, but also we want the breath not to be too rough. But with that soft breathing, I think it also keeps the sun under control. The awareness, emphasizing the body a lot, I think also tends to help not get too shaky. Because again, as I mentioned, if you really are aware of the posture, you realize your posture is very shaky. It's a constantly changing thing.

[65:43]

So if energy starts flowing through you at a big rate, it's not like you have this monolith, and now something's coming through it. It's that you have a momentary thing that's constantly changing. And if you feel that way, it's less likely that a tremendous pulse of energy is going to do it, because pulses of energy also come moment at time. It's not like you have a pulse of energy that's constant either. It's going flash. Your body's going flash. If you see them at the same time, you can sit still. You can actually feel that way. But if you feel like one or the other or both of them are something that gets carried over, then you get shitting around. So if everything's impermanent, then everything's stable. And people who emphasize their posture and very much into that one posture that's the balanced one. That one. That one can only be that one at that time.

[66:46]

There's no room for it to be anything else. Then that one, you can't disturb it because you have to make it again. It's disturbed by its nature. Its nature is that it's just like the way everything else is in, and it's constantly changing. So in that way, also, I think you minimize disturbance in terms of actually bodily shaking. Or another way to put it, because you maximize the realization of disturbance, because you realize how disturbed everything is, you become quite stable. That makes sense. Can you get my bucket? Well, I have a student who, the first yoga class she went to, had a Kundalini experience, which frightened her very much.

[67:53]

And it's continued through the years. And as soon as she sits in cross-legged pose, she immediately starts vibrating. But we found that working with a lot of firmness in the legs really minimizes that. So the firmer she can press the thighs towards each other and the firmer she gets the skin pressing around the hips and gives herself a firm base, the vibrating almost stops. In fact, now she can sit, I forget, there's one way she can sit with one leg over the opposite, and that's fine. It's still a little bit unstable on the other side because she hasn't got this kind of pace. But it's... I think what Mr. Yanga's yoga is doing is trying to provide the firmness outside to help stabilize inside.

[68:56]

And it seemed to me that a lot of people who are susceptible to the Kundalini-type experience are people who are... more like more their chemistry is more vulnerable than other people. It seems to me a lot of changes happen with sitting. And Mr. Yango works from the outer body. The muscular system monitors what the physiological changes are. And if you have a weak muscular system, then those changes, those internal changes, the chemical changes, get pretty much out of hand. Another thing which is somewhat related to this, but on a more cognitive level, is my experience is that people who have a proclivity to abstraction, they can sort of start thinking in such a way that they can sort of lift themselves out of their body, in a sense, or divorce themselves of taking care of their body.

[70:12]

And they can conceptually create a kind of formless freedom. However, when I see these kind of people sitting, they often sometimes shake. And it looks like their body's jerking them back. It looks like their body's saying, you're not taking care of them. Come back. That's another sometimes way it looks to me. Now, that would, you know, you could maybe translate into what you're saying in that the body of a person who's not taking care of it chemically gets quite upset. It senses, I often use the example of, you know, if you leave your children at home without a babysitter, or if you don't take care of your children well, they get very upset. You know, if your child comes to you and says, Daddy, and you say, just a minute,

[71:15]

they can say, Daddy, but if you wait quite a while before you say it, then the voice gets raised and raised and raised until finally they're screaming at you to get your attention. So another possible way to talk about it is that people that are susceptible there are people who are imaginative types, or are abstracted, imaginative, and don't like the hundral, I'll take care of the body. The ordinary kind of Day in, day out, bodily awarenesses. But the body has to be taken care of. It's a healthy body that won't put up for that. It says, come back by shaking, or jerking, whatever. So I think that... I think we work with a somewhat same way of trying to emphasize more postural energy, more postural attention to try to contain it with that kind of energy, that kind of attention.

[72:28]

I remember you said earlier that we didn't try to control our states. you know, try to exert our motivation. So it seems like really like if you're prone to sort of lots of emotional upheavings and stuff like that, you know, it's hard to figure out how you can handle that. I mean, the opposite of acting out usually looks like repression. And that doesn't seem to be particularly eliminating choice either. So that's what I'm curious about. It's hard to figure out what are you doing when dealing with it. If you're not acting it out and you're not repressing it. Sometimes we say repression, self-pression, and expression. There's another problem. Repression is probably the most unhealthy of this.

[73:31]

It depends on how much you act out. There are a lot more men in prison than women. Because when men act out, they cause more physical damage than women because they're bigger. I don't know which is worse. I think in some ways people in prison are healthier because they know what they're in there for. I don't know, I think repression is pretty high. Suppression is not particularly high. Because you know, suppression, what I mean by repression, is that you're stopping something you don't know you're stopping. Or you're putting energy into blocking something, but you're not aware that you're putting energy into blocking it. You're holding your door shut, you know, but you don't have your hands there. Suppression, it's okay if you put your hand there. You know it's there. Say, I'm not going to scream. It's not particularly unhelpful if you know that it's there. Expression is okay, you know, for example, if you're angry or lustful to express it.

[74:38]

I think it's all right, but the problem with expression is that you have to be careful that by expressing you don't deny that which is already expressed. So if you feel angry, a lot of people feel angry when they feel like it's dishonest with something not to yell or to attack somebody. And I think that that's expression, but I would suggest that you've already expressed it before that. And by thinking that you have to say something over and above that denies the fullness of the expression already existed. As a matter of fact, the meditator will often experience, if they really are watching, that the anger before you talk or put it into postures is rather unlimited. And you always actually restrict it or confine it or limit it some way when you put it into words or gestures.

[75:45]

It's always cut back in some way. It has certain other advantages of being restricted, but you can see it's affecting some localized area, which is . But if you do that, it's good to notice before you do that that before that, it actually was Anger before you speak and before you take a posture moves stars around. It's much more powerful. And when you realize that, then if you want to get angry, then you realize how powerful your anger is. Then you realize this is no small matter, because before I even say anything, I'll put it into physical postures. I've got tremendous force that's already expressed. So it's possible. Another thing that you learn is a lot of people that go there are people who are not impressed enough with their emotions to see when they're angry before they yell.

[76:52]

A lot of the people who go there think that they're never angry. So if they yell, if you get them to yell loud enough, at a certain point, they can say, A lot of single people. A lot of single people. A lot of single people. Well, I don't know, but I remember last week he said, a lot of single people really think they have it. You don't find too many mothers of 10. More than 10. There's not a lot of Spanish and Italians down there. But there's a lot of other middle class, you know, educated, to have an experience.

[77:54]

The first day I was there, this is not exactly the edifying thing. The first day I was there, and I was sitting in my room, studying, looking at my window, and this woman just walked by in front of my window, and sort of looked inside of it, caught sight of me, a pointer of the eye, and stopped dead, and turned and faced me, and looked straight at me. And then she started wailing. And in prison, she just went on the way crying and screaming and waved, you know. And I just sort of sat there because I felt like if I moved, I didn't know what she would do, you know. But if I just sat still, she might calm down. And then she did. And then she came up again and then she did. She went to several cycles, towards the cycle, but getting very agitated and was kind of screaming wet and then calmed down and coming back up. And then finally, I mean, I don't know how long it was.

[79:02]

It might have been a half an hour. in my other 15 minutes. I think it was 15. It was a very long time to be sitting there. But I really felt she was also standing at the edge of a cliff, and I didn't mind as... So, anyway, she walked away, and then I went back. And a few a while later I heard the knock on door, knock on it. And I heard across the house, I heard her say, where is he? No, no, no. Knock on door, knock on door. Knock [...] on door. She's a dear lady, but anyway, people at Esalen want to have experiences like that. They have. They have to have it.

[80:03]

She was a nurse, and she only had a weekend, so she... She had to... But anyway, the main emphasis is then is whatever spiritual attainment you have, it should be portable. It should be able to be brought into your daily life. Anything that isn't brought into your daily life, no matter how lofty it is, is not exactly what we're interested in. There's no enlightenment that other people can't share. There are great states, wonderful profundities. We don't deny that. And we're not talking about that kind of stuff. We're talking about stuff that maybe not so hot, but everybody can share it. It's suitable for daily use. You can take it with you wherever you go.

[81:04]

That's the kind of stuff we are. And if it's profound, you can take it with you. Most profound things are a little harder to take along with you wherever you go. So the liberation we're talking about is something that should be able to be brought into any circumstance rather than something which is great in a remote. place, but it doesn't extend itself. There are some things that are well-developed in the remote deep mountains, but then that should be gradually brought into wider use. And we do have mountains there. We're never against those. You can do things there that you can't do otherwise, but you can also do things in the city that you can't do in the mountains there, to get balanced between the two. I find that one thing that's happening at the core is that it's like there are two strands.

[82:16]

One hand, there's diversity and go through all these different motion states. And on the other hand, there's this person sitting, watching, you know, . And in a way, that's the most profound change in my daily life. I'm just watching it proceed. And I know quite what to make. Well, I think that does happen. When I don't wait to see, I don't wait to typify, but it's funny. After a while, there's one who's watching, but you're going to be there as somebody who's watching, but just, you know, it's like there's this cushion, you know, and just a cushion.

[83:23]

And then there's somebody who's aware of the cushion. And the question is just the same, but somehow it's somebody or something that's aware of the question. And after a while, they're just the question again. But somehow, just the question, but somehow there's a difference. So at first, when you first start becoming aware of your motion, your activities, you may feel like you're sitting up above them or over the side watching or something. But after a while, you realize that that awareness is just really what this is. And somehow before you're denying or hiding the fact that you are aware, so you first become aware, it seems like something in addition to what you're doing before. But after a while you realize that awareness of what's going on in community is what is going on. So it's kind of, there's this kind of, so we sometimes say in Zen, first mountains are mountains, then mountains aren't mountains.

[84:26]

Then they know who they know. First you see them the way they are. Later you step back and watch them and sort of see through them. And then finally you're just back to things again. And you see, you might say, I said there's a difference. And there is a difference. But it's not a difference exactly. Because if you say what the difference is, then the difference is stuck in that. The difference is that you're free. So you can't really say what the difference is. could, then it'd be something that you could take away. But it's not that worth it. So one of the first things that happens is you have the sense of somebody now added into the situation this new little helper that sort of watches your old habits.

[85:33]

But gradually that helper is, you realize that's just sort of, it's extra. We don't need it. But there is an awareness. And awareness doesn't have to be this other thing. And then through your back, somehow there's a difference. You can't get a hold of it, but it exists. But the way it exists is that it's free. If it's not in your category, you can get a whole depth of the leading piece of life. And then also the mountain or you is also that way too. It's also pretty up behind the category. So it's out there, but it's not out there like this exactly, but you can really sit. It's beyond our ability to say it's going on, but you can merge it and be it.

[86:40]

You can't get over here and talk about it accurately. Yeah, I find it difficult to share. What to share. This is Connie. It's been bad. And it's particularly common for women. In America, you know, men get jealous of women if you start to realize their problem. It's part of the world.

[87:47]

And they get worried, actually. And they sometimes tell women not to sit full lotus. They don't want to face all that. Women shouldn't be facing all that. You shouldn't have lotus. You shouldn't really do. They don't want to scare them. They actually sit full lotus. But whether you're a woman with a man where the woman's practicing the man and the man's practicing the woman now, that the women are somewhat more sympathetic to the man when he has something thoughtful. He's going to do this thing. He's leaving me in bed, getting up with medicine now. Men feel a little bit, there's no solace for the rejection. It's not really rejection, but from that point of view, it's rejection. I mean, it could be with me, and you're going to go talking about what? I think the first thing to do is, as much as possible, try not to confront.

[89:00]

I mean, try not to bring it up. Well, I'm not at home. I'm here. Well, unfortunately for me, I'm proud of you. Well, next week, you have to be with me. In other words, the first thing is better, whenever you do spiritual practices, it's generally best not to let your spouse know any more than they have to. Because you can get jealous at first. When you first start doing it, from that point of view, they feel, often they just feel lost. So they don't say anything. And when you first start practicing something, you're also having, as beginners, problems. So oftentimes I feel like, well, what are you doing now?

[90:02]

Are you just getting nervous? Once again, you never know. A lot of people say that when they first start seeing me, they say, I seem to be worse than you put it. They come to sit in order to be calm. But again, you can't be sure. You know? That's the case. There's a lot of people bopping up down the street. You can hear them coming a block away. They're just all over the place. And you go up to them, and you ask them if they're calm. And you say, what do you mean? Of course they're calm.

[91:02]

And they sit down. They think the reason why they're making, they think the reason, well, they think that if they weren't yelling and screaming and jumping down, that they'd become. They think the reason why they're nervous is because they're running down the street. They don't know that if they sat down, it would be just the same. For example, I often say that when I first say it or think about it, it shows you something about our mind. Most people think that the reason why the cars are moving, why you think the cars are going by is because the cars are going by. You think the reason why you see the cars moving is because they have wheels and engines and therefore they drive by. That's why you see them moving. It's not because you think they're moving. It's the car's fault. But if you look at a wall long enough, and the wall starts moving, you don't think it's because the wall's been push-ish. You think it's because you're moving.

[92:07]

You start to see that it's not because the wall has the motor in it. And the reason why cars move is not because the car is moving. It's because you think. You're the one who creates the movement, not the car. You're the one who said, it used to be over there. You can't see it over there. And you only see it here. And there and there. You see it one place at a time. And you say, I saw all these places. You make them. The car is there. It cooperates with you. But you're the one who conjures up the idea that it's been all these places. And you can remember where it used to be. It's in my hand. See the trail next? It's only one place at a time. You make the street. So again, when you start to practice, you make varied judgments. And people sometimes say, you know, it's going to be worse. But we don't know. So people coming off the street, and they sit down, and they just are confronted with this monkey.

[93:12]

Monkey. They can't believe it. They're just told, often they're really surprised. Now, if a person is upset and, you know, they can't explain anything how upset they are, they answer a surprise when they sit down and say that they experience that. But the ordinary person or the kid, you know, sit a kid down, try to sit a kid down. They can't do it in one of the few seconds. They're really agitated and excited. And they're reconfiring with that. They don't realize it, though. That's just the way they're all doing it. They're reconfiring with it. It's quite a shock. So we don't know if your mood swings are warm or they need to notice too much. But it doesn't matter too much. Because even if your mood swings go the same, by sitting you begin to let your mood swings get bigger. Eventually they should be able to be wise with the sky.

[94:14]

That's what you want to do, and you want to be able to sit through everything. So it's hard for your spouse to put up with this kind of thing for various reasons.

[94:33]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_62.76