Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away. Yesterday, we had a retreat here at Green Gulch. Can you hear me okay, Gary? Can you hear me in the back all right, huh? Can you hear me okay in the back over there? Okay. We had a retreat here, and we studied a Zen story, which has baffled people, many people, for centuries. And the name of the story is Nanquan Kills the Cat. Nanchuan kills the cat.

[01:01]

How many years ago was the Gulf War? Seven? Eight? Seven years ago? seven and a half years ago. So, we have an ongoing class here at Green Gullet. It's been going on for about seven years. More than seven years, actually. Eight. And we're studying a book called The Book of Serenity. And that book has 100 Zen stories in it. Well, it has thousands, actually, but It has 100 main stories, and at the time of the Gulf War, just at the verge of the Gulf War, we were studying this case of Nanchuan kills the cat, which seemed very apropos, because the story goes like this.

[02:25]

The monks in the West Hall and the monks in the Middle East Hall were arguing. There was unrest in the community. And Anquan became aware of this. the monks were disputing and arguing about something, and the focus of the argument was a cat. Now Nanjuan somehow got a hold of the cat and got a hold of a knife and went in front of the monks who were arguing, held the cat up and said, if someone has a good word, the cat's life will be spared. Otherwise, the cat will be cut in two.

[03:31]

And none of the monks could come forth with a good response. And the cat was cut in two. That's historic. So at that time, That case was brought forth. I brought that case forth to the community to say, can someone here, can we come forth with a good response now so that peace will be restored in the community? And we did our best and we had a war. Somehow no one could come up with anything to avert that horrible event. Then earlier this year, as you know, we came to the same place, same verge of a war, asking the same question, and somehow we averted it.

[04:54]

So there's an ongoing question in our life together, in our community of humans, is when there's unrest among us, when there's disharmony, who can come forth and say something to take us back to our common ground of interdependence? Who can help us turn around and look at and see how intimately we depend on each other and how we can't live without each other? And with that vision, restore harmony. How can you say something in the midst of turbulence and strife to remind people of our fundamental connection and restore peace? This opportunity arises again and again on a big scale, international scale, and community scale, and in terms of our own heart when we feel unrest.

[06:11]

How can we say something to bring us back to realize how everything is working together? If we don't say something, this unrest may erupt into more than just unrest. That was Nan Chuan's point. He asked the monks to do something they couldn't. Later, he told one of his students, who wasn't there at that time, what happened. And that student took off his sandal, put it on his head, and walked out. And Nantran said, if he had been here, the cat's life would have been saved. We don't know what it will be that will restore peace.

[07:25]

We don't know what it will be. It's not something we can think up. It has to be coming from some place. It has to be coming from the place where we're working together. If we're outside of that place and we think of what to do, it won't necessarily help. I don't think Nan Chuan killed the cat. I think he held up the cat and said the cat would be cut in two if the monks didn't do something. And they didn't do something. And I think he put the cat down and said, you know, the cat is killed. You people, by not realizing your relationship in its true sense, have killed the cat. And when they retold the story they said he killed the cat so that the story would spread better.

[08:29]

And it has spread all over Asia and now it's all over the West. For more than a thousand years we've been considering this story. So I carry this story in my heart today and I share it with you, and I carry it with my heart, in my heart, whenever I feel strife in my heart, whenever I feel disharmony because of my own actions or because of my sense of the way people are behaving towards me and towards each other, whenever I feel strife, I can use this story to remind me to go back to the place where the strife starts. So for me, Nan Chuan held up the sword and what he was trying to do is say, please cut through the source of your disagreement.

[09:50]

Cut through the source. of the disharmony. What is the source? I say it over and over. The source is that we feel separated from each other and we believe it. We have a sense, you know, actually in ourselves of self and other. Even in our cells there's kind of like a sense of who belongs in this club. And anybody who tries to get in without the proper credentials is held out. This information, this material is not part of this cell, can't come in. The cell can do that. The cell can do that with that idea of self.

[10:51]

But it's not true that the cell is cut off from the rest of the body. But it's almost like it thinks so. And there's some usefulness in this idea of what belongs in the cell and what doesn't. But if we believe it as a reality rather than just as a practical thing to figure out where to put your breakfast, then we have strife. So what I feel is necessary for each of us to do, for our own peace of mind, for our own contented heart, and so that we don't participate in creating disharmony among each other, leading to major harm, is to go to that place in our heart, in our mind, where we feel separation from others and look to see if we believe it and become intimate with that situation until we understand, until we understand the origin

[12:16]

of disharmony the origin of war and the origin of war is inseparable from the origin of life you can't take away the sense of difference from the cells from our heart If we take that away, we're just simply damaging our normal living endowment. Someone said, if you're looking out into outer space and you wanted to see if a planet had life on it, what you'd look for is whether there's difference. Life and difference are intimately related.

[13:20]

But if we understand the difference, and if we see how believing in the difference causes misery, then without removing the sense of difference, we can be at peace with each other. We can be individuals without feeling cut off from each other. But if we are individuals can feel cut off, then we feel uneasy. And if we ignore that uneasiness, we become driven by it. We become vehicles of disharmony, slaves of disharmony. If we can face the disharmony, we still make it feel pushed around by it. But as we become more and more intimate with it, we become less and less... dominated by it. And finally, we become completely free of it.

[14:23]

And we can be like Zhao Zhou, Nanquan student, who in the face of conflict, we can take off our shoe, put it on our head and walk out. Or some other miraculous beat. that we can do. I mean, not that we can do, but that can happen through us. Not necessarily flying or raising the dead, but something simple like opening your hand or closing your hand. Letting your body and mind be used by the place where we understand our connection. which is the same place as where we see our separation being born from our mind. This sense of separation comes up pretty much every moment.

[15:38]

I think that what's required is for somebody to be there every moment, to keep track of this constant production of illusion. The constant production of sensing that there's something outside that's really outside. We need, individually and as a group, we need somebody, somebodies to be present with this production of illusions. Somebody has to be watching the magician in her shop. Then she won't cause trouble. Then she won't fool us. And during the workshop, more than one person, but one person in particular, expressed with real passion something like, I don't know, maybe I got it wrong, somebody can correct me, but I think a terror, a sense of terror or a sense of impotence because she felt so afraid of being able to face this place

[17:05]

of separation and all the anxiety that's there. Because at this place of separation, when we believe that separation, we feel anxiety. And she admitted that just thinking about it or whatever experience she's had with it, she knows how difficult it is for her to stay present when she starts to see the anxiety that comes up when we believe that we're separate, that the other really is out there and not us, that other people really are cut off aliens, or that we're alien from the body of humanity. And I said to her, well, That's what we have to train for. We don't have to train to be different from what we are.

[18:06]

We have to train so that we can become intimate with what we are. It's very difficult to be intimate with what we are, because what we are is a being who, until we completely understand this process, feels a deep anxiety at the source of our delusion. We need to practice in such a way that we can stand to face the place where the problems start. We need to train ourselves so that we can tolerate and be patient with this very delicate and uncomfortable work. It's uncomfortable work because we're getting close to discomfort and the source of discomfort. It's uncomfortable to get close to unrest and the source of unrest.

[19:08]

But there's a joy in it, too. There can be a joy in it if we understand, and there is plenty of... encouragement for this if we understand that the ancestors, all the Buddhas, did this work. Shakyamuni Buddha and all the disciples coming down from Shakyamuni Buddha did this work of becoming intimate with suffering, intimate with this anxiety, and that they didn't do it all at once. They did it by training for quite a bit of time until they could completely settle into it with no flinching and no indulgence. So intimacy with this anxiety does not mean to wallow in it and it does not mean to be the slightest bit away from it.

[20:14]

It means for the anxiety to be congruent with the anxiety It means for the person who feels it to be just the person who feels it. And to be perfectly settled in the moment with what that's like. Which includes feeling support and permission to do this work. Some people tell me that they feel indulgent to take the opportunity to feel their pain because they think their pain is not bad enough to be felt. They think other people are suffering so much, how do I even dare take the time to be aware of my pain? But everybody, whether they suffer more than...

[21:20]

intensely right now than you, or less, needs you to become intimate with your pain so that you can help them do the same with theirs. Gross pain is sometimes easier to settle with than subtle pain. Subtle pain is sometimes easier to settle with than gross pain. Anyway, we have our own personal gift at this time, and we will be given a variety of suffering. So right now, if your suffering seems to be subtle, that's what you work with. Don't worry, later you may have some more gross and intense forms. But if you pass over the subtle ones because you think they're not worthy of your attention, when you get to the more intense and gross ones, you might not be ready. And vice versa. skipping over the gross ones now, will not help us be ready for the subtle ones.

[22:23]

They're all opportunities to be intimate with what's happening. And not everything that we're aware of is anxiety. We're not always, although we may always be anxious, we're not always aware of our anxiety. Sometimes we cannot be aware of our anxiety because this doesn't happen to be what we're aware of. Sometimes we're aware of blue, the color blue. We're anxious, but we can't be aware that we're anxious because we're aware of blue. Or sometimes we're aware of our body in some form or other, like having arms and legs and standing and walking and sitting. That's what we're aware of. We're anxious at that time. A wise person looking at us could see that we were anxious while we're picking up a glass of water.

[23:30]

They could see that we're anxious. And if they asked us and we were able to look, If they asked us, are you anxious, and we were able to look, we might say, oh, yes, I am. But at the time of picking the glass of water up, we're actually paying attention to our hand in the glass of water. And the way we do that is influenced by the fact that we're anxious. And it's influenced by the level of intimacy we have with the experience of picking up the glass of water and the level of intimacy we have when we are aware of our anxiety. So in daily life we go back and forth between being aware of anxiety, being aware of butterflies and turbulence in our gut, in our heart, in our head, in our arms and legs, and also being aware of the operation of our arms and legs and mouth and thoughts.

[24:33]

So the process of becoming intimate with our anxiety and thereby becoming intimate with the source of the anxiety and the source of our disharmony, also means that we pay attention to everything else, too. So again, it isn't that you just pay attention to this anxiety and skip over other anxiety. You also don't just pay attention to anxiety. You also pay attention to every word you say and every posture you're involved in and every thought you have. So that when it's time to pay attention to anxiety, which is so difficult, you're ready. You don't just wait until the anxiety comes and then pay attention to that because it's so much to the core of the problem. You also deal with every single action throughout the day as a training for facing the essential problem. And in the process of trying to pay attention to every little gesture of your hand and voice, that also shows you the anxiety because it's often revealed right in that attempt to pay attention to what you're doing.

[25:53]

What I'm saying is that we have within us the place to... We have within us the place to pay attention, the thing to watch, the crucial matter. We can actually observe where all problems start, but we have to train in order to actually be able to sit upright and stand upright and calmly, fluidly, pay attention to this origin of suffering so we can see the suffering born and understand it and become free of it. And that we won't be able to do that consistently without training. Sometimes people are lucky and in the midst of the swirl of their life, they have a moment where they're balanced and they just happen to see right to the source, see the problem, and have a moment of release.

[27:12]

It does sometimes happen. Well, that's great. But to do it again and again, consistently, requires training. requires discipline. And discipline, you know, the origin of the word discipline, I think, is dosere. It means to learn. We have to learn. We have to study. What do we study? Every single moment. Everything we do. Everything we feel. That's how we train ourselves. Until with the goal that we would actually be able to be consistent in this. And some people, like the Buddha, have actually got to the place where an honest person says, I have now been able to be consistent in this mindfulness

[28:27]

of what's happening in my life, moment after moment, throughout the day, without a break. One great Zen master said that when he was 65, he finally got to that point after practicing for 41 years. Some of you may think, 41 years? But I'm already 55. And even if you're already into the practice, pretty soon maybe you'll start losing some of your mental abilities. I'm banking on being able to do this practice without a brain.

[29:29]

Or with a brain that's very, what do you call, scaled down. I remember one time, not too long after I became a priest, I was in a state of torment or a state of turbulence or a state of confusion, which was, for me, you know, so strong I could barely walk. I didn't know what to do. But it was time to go to meditation. And somehow I started to go. And as I started to go, I started to put my robes on. And I was amazed that my hands had learned how to put the robe on. The hands did it because they had done it so many times that they knew how to do it even though I couldn't understand how to do anything.

[30:36]

I think I need to train myself so that I can continue to meditate and pay attention even when I don't know how to talk. Or even when I maybe have thoughts and can't say them anymore because I've had a stroke or something. Like my father had a stroke and I went to see him and he wanted to talk to me and I knew he wanted to say something, but every time he said something it wasn't what he meant. We get to that point sometimes, or the reverse. that we can talk, but what we have to say is completely incoherent because our brain's all mixed up. But it's possible to develop a practice which isn't dependent on our body being in such and such a condition, that the intimacy between us and all beings is undisturbed no matter what condition we're in.

[31:41]

And if our practice is to appreciate that intimacy, then it doesn't matter whether we're smart or dull, whether we have a stroke or not. We're in a dimension of meditation on our interdependence, not on being a man or a woman, older, young, smart or clear or dull or stroked. Which means we have to give up in the process of getting to this place, we have to give up, you know, holding on to our own particular whatever we're up to. And emphasize studying what's happening rather than, you know, what will promote my activity for myself. Because then a lot of times you may think, it's better if I don't look at this. I could carry on my day better if I somehow take a pill or something so I don't feel this anxiety. It's okay to go jogging or swimming and have the endorphins flowing and feel good.

[32:55]

That's fine. But not as a distraction from facing the basic issue of our life. but maybe as an opportunity to even become closer to it, to take a walk, to go for a jog, to go swimming as a way to settle into, to help you be patient, to make yourself bigger so that you can not run away from what's happening. So oftentimes we feel this anxiety, we feel this upset, and if we pay attention to it, we may think, now what can I do?

[33:55]

How can I adjust things to make myself more comfortable? And that kind of attitude is not completely off. But it's slightly different to try to fix things so that what you're afraid of will go away. It's slightly different to do that rather than to try to become intimate with the way you feel about that thing that you might wanna get rid of because it's threatening you. What I might do to remove that thing out there that I think is not me, which I feel threatened by, what I do to sort of mollify that or appease that or eliminate that may not really, may be quite destructive.

[34:56]

But how I take care of myself in the face of that to feel more settled may produce a similar kind of peacefulness or ease but not be destructive to myself or the other. But they're not totally different. The way I adjust to the situation, to be settled with it, is also to look for the place, in some sense, the place of peace. But without removing the threat, It's more like finding the best way to be with it. And then an action may come from that place which may relate to the threat. You may go talk to the person, but if you talk to them to get rid of them before you settle with how you feel with them, it just leads to another moment of anxiety.

[36:01]

Whereas if you settle and then talk to them, it's an expression of your settledness and your intimacy with the anxiety and your intimacy with them. But it's hard to see the difference between these two sometimes, which is another reason why we have to train ourselves in... being very careful of everything that we're involved in, because we can learn this skill of making this discrimination in many, many other areas of our life. And again, if we skip over paying attention to everything and taking care of everything and learning from everything, then when we come to this very difficult discrimination, we won't necessarily be ready for it. And similarly, this kind of awareness will help us do everything else and relate to everything else we do with skill. So they work together. So being careful of all the things we do is part of the training.

[37:12]

And being careful to relate to all of our feelings, not just our anxiety, is part of the training. It's exactly, when I looked at the watch, on my watch, it was exactly 11 o'clock. 1-1-0-0-0-0. Does anyone have a song apropos of this talk? I mean, I do, but it's one I do over and over, so I thought maybe somebody has a better one. I have kind of a bittersweet feeling about all this.

[38:26]

It's kind of sad to have to do this work. Because maybe I wish that I didn't have to do it. And I haven't quite let go of the fact that I do have to do it. And it's not true. And... Anyway, it's kind of... It's kind of tough. Kind of hard work. But so far I've never regretted being devoted to such work. Like, you know, when I was preparing for this talk, this particular talk, which often happens, my dear wife comes and talks to me while I'm thinking about the talk. And then I have to, I have to, I have to.

[39:29]

I have to practice what I'm going to preach before I preach it. I can't really like, you know, say, oh, get away, I'm, you know. Get away, I'm preparing for my job. Sometimes I can do that without saying get away, you know. But sometimes I just have to like not say get away and let what she brings to me be brought and relate to it even though I'm kind of like getting ready for this talk. Because that's consistent with usually what I'm going to talk about. But here I am maybe getting ready for the talk and maybe I think I'm going to talk to somebody other than myself. Maybe I think that. But maybe I don't. Maybe I'm not anxious. Maybe I'm feeling like, hey, I'm going to go talk to myself.

[40:31]

And I'm not anxious. And I'm going to talk about how I'm not anxious because I'm talking to myself. And then my wife comes while I'm trying to think of how to say that. And then maybe I think she's not me. This is not me coming to talk to me. So I feel anxious. Wait a minute. I've got to do this. So then I've got to welcome that. Welcome, wife. This morning, she wanted medical advice on how to deal with blisters. I accepted. I gave a consultation about what I think is the way to take care of blisters. I won't go in. I'll tell you during question and answer if you want to know. It's fairly detailed. And yesterday, when I was preparing for the workshop that I was doing on Nanchuan Kills the Cat, I was reading some of the comments of the ancient masters on this story.

[41:37]

And she came up to me again while I was studying. And she came up and stood close to me by my left shoulder and looked over my shoulder, which I hate for her to look over my shoulder when I'm reading. Because she reads much faster than me. I was afraid that she'd understand the koan before me. So I just kept studying with her looking over my shoulder. I didn't say, get away. Get away. It makes me nervous when you're looking over my shoulder while I'm studying these koans. I didn't. I just calmly felt the anxiety. of trying to understand the words of the ancient masters about this grave matter of killing the cat with my wife looking over my shoulder.

[42:39]

And in that gentle acceptance, she spoke to me. And she said, I'm just here and I'm really appreciating my husband who loves what he does." And she said, but you know, you are doing something. I didn't argue. I'm trying to be intimate with this criticism. I guess some of you don't know that my practice is not to do something. But she thinks I'm doing something and that I love it. But really, she doesn't understand that what I love is to have a job of not doing anything.

[43:51]

And then she would say, but you're still doing something. And I thought, it's interesting what people do shortly before they die. This is not ordinarily considered exciting as an exciting life, but it really is. It's appropriate activity for someone who's about to die, which is my case. And some of you are like that, too. This is a good way to spend our life. A little bit left we have. being intimate with each other, trying to accept people bringing us stuff on their schedule. And really often very lovingly, but on their schedule. So can we open our arms and hearts to what's happening and feel the anxiety and become intimate? Can we? Yes. But we have to train at it. Train, train, train.

[44:55]

And we can get better and better at this very skillful work and find the end of suffering and find peace among all beings. Okay? So there it is. And now here's my song. I did this last time I gave a talk, but I started too high. I'm going to sing it lower today. I don't know if that'll work either, but anyway. Getting to know you. Getting to know all about you. Getting to know you, putting it my way but nicely, you are precisely my cup of tea.

[46:01]

Getting to know you Getting to feel free and easy When I am with you Getting to know what to say Haven't you noticed Suddenly I'm bright and breezy Because of all the beautiful and new things I'm learning about you day by day. If we give and create every place, it's true and all of us this way.

[47:08]

Let me just watch one. He said, dogs and children, WCPOs wouldn't approve. I said, why? He said, because they upstairs you. What's his name? Sequoia? Is there anything you'd like to discuss? Can you hear me okay in the back?

[48:14]

No? You can? You can't hear me in the back or you can't hear me in the back? You can't? Why are you sitting in the back? You want to leave soon? So who's in charge of the speaker system? Well, yeah, I'm not shouting. I don't want to disturb Sequoia. OK, how's that? Can you get me OK now? Is that better? OK. So do you have any things you'd like to discuss about life on this planet?

[49:22]

Death on this planet? Pat, did you want to say something? He just woke up. He didn't like what he saw. I used to be your mother. In a few years, when he starts studying, then you can start studying again, too.

[50:44]

Have a nice evening. Pat, did you say something about how do you have a relationship with somebody who... How do you start a dialogue? How do you start a dialogue when there's been some damage in a relationship?

[51:49]

You don't know how to get into a relationship with this person? No, you don't know how to get into a relationship with this person? Is that what you're saying? You have a relationship with this person but you don't know how to get intimate with it? Is that what you're saying? What's the problem? That's keeping you away. No. In this relationship, you feel anxiety.

[52:57]

Because when you see her, you feel anxiety. Well, what do you want to do? So you said you don't want to see it. You just want to let go at that. How do you get the courage?

[54:39]

Well, like right now, do you feel like you're present? And does it take courage to be present right now? Pardon? So it does take some courage to be present with me? Does it? Okay. So just continue this. Just continue practicing being present starting right now. And then the first time you notice that you slipped off being present, recognize it as such, and you're present again.

[55:39]

And then keep going, being mindful of being present, moment by moment, and every time you slip, as soon as you notice it, recognize it as a slip, and then you're back on the track of Dharma again. You just keep doing that. And when she appears in your mind, be present with that thought of her. And if she comes to you or calls you, try to continue that practice. That's why I say you have to train yourself so when this person comes, you're already practicing. You're not going to be able to start when they arrive if you haven't been doing it. Because it's even harder once they start talking to you or looking over your shoulder. So now, start now with me and with us and just continue. See if you can do it through the rest of the question and answer. See if you can do it to your car. See if you can do it while you're driving. And if you can't, you catch yourself, come back to be at the wheel of your car. Driving down the road, things changing, you keep adjusting, you keep practicing being present, trusting the present moment of the place where the practice comes from here and now.

[56:55]

Trust that. And then when your trust weakens and you veer off, if you notice it, recognize it, come back to presence. Just keep doing that. And then when these challenging people come, maybe you can continue for a little while when they arrive. Maybe you can continue this kind of presence for a little while after they arrive. And then maybe you lose it and say, well, I stayed with it for a while and then I lost it and I started trying to get away. But there was a few seconds there when I was there, when we were there together. And that's what I want. Maybe that's what you want. Maybe that's what you trust. You? Uh-huh.

[57:56]

Can you be present with your discomfort right now? Can you speak? You don't know how to be? Right, but do you know how to be present in the midst of not knowing how to be? Can you be present with that, not knowing how to be? That thought, I don't know how to be, can you be present with that? Many people I've heard say that they don't know how to be. They don't know what to do.

[58:59]

They have that thought. Some other people think, I do know how to be it. I do know how to talk. I do know what to do. But the point is to be present with that thought. That thought is just a thought. Your opinion of yourself is just your opinion. And my opinion of you is just an opinion too. The question is, are we present and seeing what's happening and learning? Are we here to learn? Are we here to believe what we think? Or are we here to believe what we think? Okay? So, see if you can continue to the rest of the question and present with what you're thinking. and concentrate on just staying present and recognizing what's happening, including discomfort or even comfort might happen.

[60:05]

Yes. you know . . . It's still a conflict from that.

[61:30]

And I understand that I think it's hard to live in my life. But how can we get up there and get up there? How can we hold back our sorrows throughout our community? Yes. Many people feel like you. So it's good that you notice how busy you are.

[62:36]

You notice that. The question is, can we live out there and learn to be quiet, or do we have to live in a monastery to be quiet? Maybe for some people, if they cannot really trust that it's possible to be quiet in the world maybe if they go to the monastery they can find quiet but if you can't trust the possibility of being quiet outside the monastery if you don't know if that's possible and you can't practice that a little bit out there then going to the monastery might not help but if you can practice and find some peace in the middle of

[63:46]

chaos if you can find some peace there and also if you can find some peace in the middle of what isn't chaos which is busy in some lawful way if you can find presence in that then maybe you can see in that place whether or not going to a monastery would help you and if it would help you then maybe you should go for a while because it does help some people but most people who go to the monastery actually all people who go to the monastery will eventually leave the monastery but it may be that some people or that many people need to go to the monastery for part of their life but there's no sense in waiting until you go to the monastery before you start trying Because trying to be present and trying to find the center of the storm, there's no need to wait to try.

[65:00]

It won't help to wait to try. And if you try wholeheartedly and you're unsuccessful, then you may be able to see more clearly that you need a retreat. And that you may see it more clearly that it will help you. But if you don't start now, working in your present situation, it will be hard to see whether going to a monastery would help you anyway. So you're here right now, and I'm talking to you, and you're listening to me. You seem fairly present. It's quiet here, yeah. But just like I said to Pat, see if you can continue through this conversation, through this discussion. See if you can continue as you walk to your car. See if you can continue as you start to drive. See when you lose it. And the more you can understand when you lose it, the better you can see whether or not really you should stop driving cars.

[66:05]

But if you don't have some criterion or some standard to judge of knowing that you actually can be peaceful, then it's hard for you to see what would actually help you and promote your development of peace. So work as much as you can now and maybe that will lead you to a monastery. But if a person comes to me and they won't work with what they are doing now, I wouldn't suggest they go to a monastery, because they'd go to a monastery and cause trouble there, because they're not doing their work now. But some people who don't do their work in the city, when they go to a monastery, they do okay. But people who are working somewhat in the city, and somewhat being mindful in the city, they're usually quite successful when they do a retreat. But some people who refuse to do the work in a busy situation, when they get into a situation set up for mindfulness, they just waste their time and waste the time of the other people.

[67:09]

They don't do the work there either. So in either case, whether you're going to stay in the city longer or whether you're going to go to the monastery someday soon, you should start working right now where you are. That will help you whether you leave or not. If you leave the city for a while, it will help you if you work in the city before you leave. If you don't find some peace before you leave, then that will interfere with you being successful in the mountains. So by all means, as soon as possible, start practicing. And it seems like you've started already right now. Just try to continue out of this valley. Use this occasion as an opportunity to try to see how you can continue this practice for the rest of the afternoon. See how long you can continue this feeling of being in touch with peace in the middle of what's going on. So there's a famous story, you know, about a monk who's sweeping the ground, sweeping the ground.

[68:17]

You know that story? And his brother comes up to him and says, you're too busy. They're in the monastery, right? You're sweeping the ground. They're monks. But his brother says, you're too busy, in other words. You're not really that mindful right now. The tube keeps too busy. And the one who's sleeping says, you should know there's one who's not busy. And the one with the broom, and then the one who's questioning says, then are there two moons? Two truths? Is there a busy world and a not busy world? And the one with the broom holds the broom up and says, which moon is this? What's in my hand now? Is this busy or unbusy? And the other monk just walked off. I don't say this is busy, I don't say this is not busy. I just say there's always one who's not busy. But there's always one who's busy too.

[69:19]

But the one who's busy seems to be thriving. We need to remember the one who isn't busy. That's the one that we have to work at usually. Now some people get up in the mountains and they get sunk in the one who's not busy. Sometimes that happens and we have to get them to remember the one who's busy. This is called psychosis. Okay, how are you doing? Okay. Please continue if you can. Continuity. Yes? Yeah. Right. Well, So she said, if you're angry, how can you sit with the anger?

[70:25]

Because it seems to be hard for the body to be settled with anger. Yeah. Well, you know, we say sitting meditation, right? You know, Zazen means sitting meditation. But we don't mean that it's actually only practiced in the sitting posture. The spirit of sitting meditation is that whatever posture you're in, you're just in that posture. and you're not in another posture. And the nature of anger is that because of the fiery quality of it, it may be hard to sit in anger, to get sort of synchronized or to synchronize your body with the anger in sitting posture. That may be difficult. To feel the resonance between your body and the anger may be difficult in the sitting posture or maybe even in standing posture. So sometimes it might help if you would walk, do walking meditation. The walking meditation, or the movement of the walking, the body in walking, might be more harmonious with the anger.

[71:31]

The point is to become intimate with it, so it isn't pushing you around. And so walking might be better, and if through the walking you can become more in rapport with the anger, then the anger is not doing any harm anymore. And then you gradually calm down and then you can sit. Anger might still be there, but you can sit with it. So the point is to try to ride the wave of the anger, ride the wave of the confusion, ride the wave of the pain, ride the wave of the anxiety. Try to find some way to be with it as it's tossing and turning and changing. So I don't know how to ride a stand-up on a surfboard when a surfboard's on waves. I've never learned how to do that. But I think if you look at some of the really good surfers, they're actually quite stable on the board sometimes through this tremendously rapidly changing situation.

[72:48]

So it is possible to be at peace in the middle of a rapidly changing situation, but you have to train in order to find that, so that you can speak calmly from the middle of the waves. But at first you have to train and you fall off many times before you can balance in the changing situation. In the midst of the various insults and irritating events that happen throughout the day, it's very easy for us to fall off balance and to act from that imbalance. It's very easy. So to constantly try to find a way to be balanced. And a lot of times when you try to balance, when you first start balancing, it's very tiring because you're tense. So some people like walking on a thin, walking on a tightrope or walking on a thin pole or something.

[73:50]

Maybe do it for a while, but then you start to get tired because you're not used to paying attention that closely to your balance. And you fall, not because you can't balance, but because you You're getting tired paying attention at that level of intensity. But you're getting tired because you're not relaxed. You're not comfortable. You want to stop paying attention and do something easy, like stand on the ground. But if you can practice it more and more, you can get so that it's not so hard to pay attention. And you're not using so much energy to pay attention. and it's more, what do you call it, well, finally effortless, then you can continue it throughout the day. And then also you get yourself able to cope with the trauma or the disturbance prior to the anger, which is practicing patience.

[74:54]

But if you've already slipped into anger, then you have to find your balance in the anger maybe. Does that make sense? Yes. Life is different? Yeah, right, yeah. We believe in the difference, right. No, I didn't say life is difference.

[75:56]

I said there's no life without difference. With believing the difference? Yeah. So the separation is part of life. Difference is part of life. But you don't have to believe it as a reality. But we do believe it as a reality. Right. It's an illusion. In other words, part of life is illusion. It's an illusion that we're separate. It's an illusion. And if I believe it as a reality, then I'm anxious. And I can even be cruel to people if I believe we're separate. But I won't be cruel to people if I know that that sense of separation is just an illusion, a byproduct of my perception equipment.

[77:00]

If he killed the cat, he was killing himself. If he was killing the cat, if we kill something, that means we believe that we're separate and that we can kill something separate from ourselves. But Nan Chuan didn't understand the world that way. So he would never kill the cat. No enlightened Buddhist will ever kill anything. They will never do that. They don't see the world as offering that possibility. But they might say, if you people don't realize non-separation, you'll be caught in the world of killing, and then we're going to have a big problem. So please, now you have this argument among yourselves, you people are supposed to be resolving this, cutting through this sense of separation, and you're wallowing in it. Somebody addressed this situation and wake the group up, and nobody could do anything. So they said, this kills the cat. You've got this thing, this kills life, this inattention to the source of this problem, of this conflict.

[78:08]

So they call the story, Nanquan Kills the Cat, because Nanquan's threatening them. If they don't get it together, there's going to be killing. The world of killing is going to be perpetuated by their inattention to the essential matter, which is that we're interdependent. But interdependence also allows the dependent core arising of a sense of separation. And even the belief in that would lead to the belief of an independent existence. So feeling like we're separate is one thing and that leads to me actually feeling like I'm independent of you and I can live without you and you don't need me and I don't need you. And if that's the case, then I'm going to be very unhappy and out of my unhappiness I can do many weird things, unkind things. is possible in this world to manifest. So what's the medicine for that world of suffering? It's to go to the place where the belief operates, where there's anxiety about that, and see that that's really something that depends on various things, and seeing how it depends on various things, we stop falling for it as a reality.

[79:19]

It's just for fun. That's what it's for. Thank you. And later we'll change places. When we're ready. Yes. Continuate on the story of this discussion. The thing that I was getting is one of the poison disorders through Warwick Gardens. Somehow they should be able to reconcile. The only ways to do that is why the other will say something that could have an incorrect attitude. What is it the case that .

[80:29]

Why is there a resolution ? What would the role of the real life terms transact that ? Right. That's possible. That would have been fine for somebody to show them how they could be two separate halls, but not be in conflict about it. You don't have to eliminate separation in order to have harmony. You just have to understand that the separation is a setup. It's not real. But if you fight the separation, that causes, if you try to deny the separation, that basically produces the same result. In other words, try to force things together and pretend like they're not separate, that will cause the same turbulence as believing that the separation is real.

[81:35]

As a matter of fact, trying to force things together and eliminate suffering is based on believing, eliminate separation, is based on believing in separation. When you don't believe in separation anymore, when you're not caught by it as a reality, when you see how it's conjured up, you don't have to eliminate it anymore. Then it's beautiful. Then it's an opportunity to challenge your current meditation practice. And then you get all these various differences come to you to see if you keep not being fooled. That's your gift to you of getting peaceful, is a new challenge. to something different to see if you fall for this difference. A new and tempting difference. How about this one? Do you believe in this one? How about this one? Oh yeah, I believe in that one. And then you have to say to yourself, pray to your enlightened nature to save you from believing your perceptions.

[82:38]

Because if you believe your perceptions, you can see sometimes you'll do a bad thing. Like I often tell the story of one time I was talking to a woman in the mountains, in a monastery. And I was kind of jumping up and down. I don't know if I was physically jumping up and down. I think actually I was sitting down, but I was more or less jumping up and down, pounding my feet on the ground saying, I don't believe what I think you are. I don't believe what I think you are. I will not believe what I think you are. I just kept saying that and saying that. And I managed kind of not to believe what I thought she was, and everything worked out fine. Also, she got to look at me and say, what is he doing that for? But I didn't believe what she was, so it was okay. But I did think of something. I did think she was something. I had a thought about her. But it was not something to believe, this thought I had of her. But I was kind of on the verge of believing it and being swept away

[83:42]

Not by the thought, but believing that it was true. For me to think that you're a jerk is one thing, but to think it's true, then I'm in big trouble. For me to think that you're a terrible person is just a thought. It's okay. You can think that, people. But if you believe it, then you get in trouble. If you don't grab it, it can't grab you. But if you grab it, it can throw you for a loop. Whatever you think it is. It's called believing your thinking. Don't believe your thinking, study your thinking. Study it and then you'll become free of it while you're doing it. And not only that, but it will change. It will evolve in freedom. But before you're completely leaving it alone, don't worry about it evolving too much.

[84:43]

However, since you're not leaving it alone, I say don't worry about it too much, but since you're not leaving it alone, you are worried about it, so if you are worried about it, well then try to make it evolve in a positive way. But that's still not really the point, because there's no end to trying to be worried about it evolving in a positive way, and being anxious about it evolving in a positive way, and being afraid it's going to evolve in a negative way. But in that system of messing around, you do your best. And if you get rewarded, the main reward is that you have a chance to see that this is not true, your thinking is not true. Mine isn't either. And yet there's these words, please study your thinking. Please study your thinking. Look at your thinking. See how you're thinking. Study your thinking. Study your thinking. That will be the way for you to be intimate with your thinking. When you're intimate with your thinking, you won't be fooled by your thinking. When you're not fooled by your thinking, then everything will be in harmony.

[85:47]

And you'll be able to help other people study their thinking. And this will be the way to spread awakening to the nature of, I think, rather than just grabbing it and being pushed around by it. Well, the first way, one way to start is just don't move, for starters. Don't even nod. Just don't move. When you're not moving, see if you feel any impulse to do anything. Look at your mind and see if you can see an impulse to do something, like an impulse to move or an impulse to speak. Is there some tendency in your mind to do something, physically or verbally? Do you have some imagination of doing something that you actually would like to do?

[86:48]

In other words, look inside and see what your intentions, what your motivation is. If you're not yet able to see your motivation, then there's other mindfulness practices that are a little bit coarser that can help you start to tune in to what's happening with you so you can see your motivation. But your motivation and thinking are basically, for me, synonymous. If you're already in activity and you can't sit still, then in the middle of activity try to see your motivation. But if you can sit still, it's easier to catch your motivation because you're not doing anything. A lot of people don't really feel their passions and their desires until they sit still. Then eventually they feel a strong impulse to move. But most people act on their impulse to move without noticing the impulse to move before they move. I think most people do, from what I've found out.

[87:52]

Most people do not really feel the motivation to move before they move. I sometimes ask, did you notice, did you feel the impulse to move your hands before you moved it? People usually say no. And I said, when you said no, did you notice your impulse to say no before you said no? And they say no. I said, did you notice that one? They say no. Did you notice that one? They say no. Did you notice that one? They say no. Did you notice that one? They say yes. Did you notice the impulse before you said yes? They say no. I said, did you notice that? No, they said no. Did you notice that? No, they said no. Did you notice that soon? They say yes. Now, did you notice that yes? They say yes. So you can learn on the job, so to speak, but it's harder. It's better, it's easier to, that's why sitting still is, that's why sitting meditation or concentrating on your posture is a good way to start, because when you tune into your body, like if you do walking meditation, you're moving, but you're watching, you're walking, And sometimes, like, particularly if you walk in one direction and then stop and turn around and walk the other direction, at the point of turning, you can often feel the impulse to turn.

[88:54]

Say, now I'm at the place of turning. I feel that I actually want to turn now. Every time you go to the bathroom, you can be still for a little while before you go and feel, oh, there actually is the impulse, there is the intention to go to the toilet. You feel it. There it is. I actually feel the impulse. That's thinking. I think I want to go to the toilet. And so if you drink a lot of fluids, you can work on that one a lot. Which I guess is good for your health anyway, right? So basically, tune into your motivation is how you study your thinking. And then you start to notice, well, here's a motivation, and some of these motivations are kind of wholesome or harmless, and other motivations are kind of harmful and cruel. So you start to notice those things, and some of those things you act on, and you notice how they work. So you start to see the dependent core arising of your activity and how it all works. And as you watch this, your thinking evolves.

[89:58]

From watching your thinking, your thinking will evolve. No matter how bad your intentions are, If you're able to watch them, your intentions will evolve in a positive way, just because you learn how bad intentions work. And similarly, to see how good intentions work, also your intentions evolve. And as your intentions evolve, you get more skillful at watching your intentions. And as you get more skillful at watching your intentions, the more they evolve positively. And as they evolve positively, you get better at watching it until you can see exactly how they work. And then you finally see that your intentions don't arise by your own power. You see the interdependence of your intentions. And then you start to see these things still happen, but you see it's all for fun. This whole thing's for fun. We came here for fun. We came here to play with all living beings. Part of the deal is it's a test to see if you can remember that. So I came here, you came here, we came here to love each other, and part of the way we deepen our understanding that we came here to love each other was to be rude to each other.

[91:12]

Do you remember that you came here to love me? Yes. You still remember? No, I can't remember now. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I didn't come here to love you. Now you forgot. You forgot. You forgot. Oh, no, I didn't forget. I never wanted to love you. You forgot. That's right. I did forget. You're right. Finally, we stopped pouting. Yes. Yes.

[91:46]

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