I seem to remember that I said that today I would go into this scripture called the Discourse on Elements. In Pali it's called Datu Vibhaga Sutta. And sure enough, it looks like that's going to happen. I have this feeling like I'm not going to talk about all the other things I want to talk about before I get into this discussion. I'm renouncing them. So here goes. This is the exposition on the elements. Thus I have heard. And thus I have heard is

[01:02]

we say anyway in this tradition, thus I have heard is Ananda talking. Ananda's Buddha's Jisha and his cousin. And Ananda had this very good memory. He remembered everything he heard the Buddha say. And he also could remember anything he heard that other people told him the Buddha said. And so as the story goes, they got together one time. They had a big conference of all the disciples of the Buddha. Well, not all the disciples of the Buddha, just the enlightened ones. Just the arhats. and they wanted to have a conference, a big assembly of all the arhats, and then they wanted Ananda to, and anybody else who could remember the Buddhist teachings, to say the Buddhist teachings.

[02:23]

Unfortunately, as you may have heard at this meeting, that they wanted to have Ananda come and do the main body of the work of reciting the Buddhist teaching. Ananda was not allowed to come unless he was an arhat, and he was not yet an arhat. They say that there was 500 enlightened disciples of the Buddha, 500 arhats. He was a very effective teacher. Can you imagine 500 enlightened disciples? So whether they rounded it off and really it was 496 or 514 or something, anyway, there was quite a few. And the great Ananda was not one of them. SO THEY HAD A PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO HAVE HIM COME TO THE MEETING. THEY WANTED HIM TO BE IN THE CLUB AND THEY NEEDED HIM IN THE CLUB BECAUSE HE KNEW MORE SCRIPTURES THAN ANYBODY BY HEART.

[03:27]

So they had this big intensive training program for Ananda prior to this meeting, putting a lot of pressure on him. And the greatest arhats converged upon Ananda to give him special training. And he was meditating really hard because they had set the date and he had to be enlightened by a certain date. because these disciples were walking from long distances on foot over the hot Indian ground to come to this meeting. So anyway, Nanda worked real hard, but the night before the conference he was still not enlightened, and he was just totally exhausted from the effort. I may be a little discouraged too. Ananda was, they say, kind of what they call a greed type.

[04:42]

He liked everything. Liked his lunch. Liked his breakfast. Liked his robes. He liked women. He liked his body. He liked Buddha. He liked everything Buddha said. And he was just generally careful. Usually when he got into his bed to rest, he did it very carefully. He arranged his blankets and stuff very nicely and got up and placed himself very nicely on the bed to have a nice rest. But this time he was kind of in a different mood and he was just totally exhausted. He didn't even, he just threw himself through the air. You know, flew through the air onto the bed. And mid-air, he woke up. And became an Arhat. And when he landed on the bed, he was an Arhat.

[05:48]

So he could go to the meeting and recite the scriptures. And before he recites the scriptures, he would always say, Thus I have heard. On one occasion, the Blessed One, that's the Buddha, was wandering in the Magadha country, Magadan country, Magadha. And eventually he arrived at Rajagriha or Rajagraha, There he went to the potter Bhagava and said to him, If it's not inconvenient for you, Bhagava, I will stay one night in your workshop. So I was somewhat impressed by that.

[07:03]

The Buddha asked to stay in the potter's workshop. Here's the great Buddha. Doesn't always go to the palaces to hang out. And didn't even ask to stay in the house. He asked to stay in the workshop. Kind of like the manger or the stables. Maybe the potter's house was crowded or something. And he knew that usually nobody was sleeping in the workshop, so he could sleep there. The great Buddha going to sleep in just a workshop of a potter. Kind of humble, huh? Anyway, he said, if it's not inconvenient, I'd like to stay one night in your workshop. And Bhagava said, it is not inconvenient for me, venerable sir, but there is a homeless one already staying there.

[08:12]

If he agrees, then stay as long as you like, venerable sir. Again, here's the Buddha who wants to stay at the guy's house. There's already somebody staying there. If it's okay with that guy, you can stay. Now, there was a Klansman named Phukasati who had gone forth from the home life into the homeless life out of faith in the Blessed One. And on that occasion, he was already staying in the potter's workshop. So there was this man who had left home and gone into the homeless life in faith in the Buddha.

[09:19]

he heard about the Buddha's teaching and the Buddha's being and he thought, I'm leaving home and I'm going to go and practice in faith in this Buddha. So he was practicing meditation and he considered himself a disciple of the Buddha and he was staying in that potter's workshop. Then the blessed one went to the venerable. He's venerable because he's left home and gone to devote his life to be a disciple of the Buddha. So he's considered a venerable bhukusati. The Buddha went to this venerable person who was his disciple and said to his disciple, if it is not inconvenient for you, Bhikkhu, I will stay one night in the workshop.

[10:47]

I remember one time I came over to Mill Valley with Suzuki Roshi and we sat Zazen over there, you know, near the Tam Junction, this little place we sat there. And afterwards, he made a telephone call to his sick disciple, Trudy Dixon. He called her and he said, hello, this is Reverend Suzuki. Would it be all right if I came and visit you? And then I guess she said, okay. And then he hung up. But I was impressed, you know, how humbly he requested, you know, may your teacher come to visit you? Not so much, you know, well, here I am, here I come.

[12:00]

You must want me to come visit you. I really, of course, she was sick, so. But anyway, he seemed to really be asking her, may I come to visit you? And I guess she said yes. And then... And then we went over to the place where she lived. She also lived in Mill Valley. We came up to her house and I walked up the stairs with her to her house. And her husband answered the door. And his name's Mike Dixon. And he was in a bathrobe and he had a cigarette hanging out of his mouth. and I don't know if he took it out of his mouth, but he kind of went, you know, you can come in. I thought, wow. Of course, you know, he's a very sweet guy, Mike Dixon, but at the time he seemed extremely, I don't know what,

[13:08]

somewhere between nonchalant and... I don't know what the word is. I don't want to say it. It's just that cigarette hanging out of his mouth that kind of stayed there, sort of, and then just sort of like, okay, you can go in. It just surprised me. So he went and visited his sick disciples. So the Buddha said to his disciple, may I, if it's not inconvenient for you Bhikkhu, I will stay one night in the workshop. And then Phukasati said, the potter's workshop is large enough, friend. And the term for friend is kind of like Not exactly like a cigarette hanging out of your mouth. Okay, man, you can come in. But a little bit informal. Kind of like, okay, come on in, pal.

[14:10]

Something like that. Somewhere between man, pal, and friend. Anyway, informal. Not impolite, but informal. So the disciple of Buddha thought he was meeting, I guess, maybe another homeless person. Sure, but still, you know, sure, you can stay here. There's enough room for you. And then he said, let the venerable one stay as long as he likes. So he recognized the venerable person as a peer. He didn't know who it was. He didn't know his teacher had come. He'd never met the Buddha. Now is this something or not? Isn't this a wonderful story? The Buddha asks if he can come and stay with you and you say, yes, you may stay here.

[15:18]

And you don't even know it's the Buddha. And the Buddha doesn't tell you. I'm your teacher, here I am. May I stay here? No, just, may I stay here, venerable one? Yes, you may. There's room enough for you to stay as long as you like. So although he didn't know who it was, he treated the person with respect. But informal. Hey man, sure, come on in. You can sit over there. Then the Blessed One entered the potter's workshop. prepared a spread of grass at one end and sat down. So the Buddha practiced, when he practiced meditation, he'd gather grass, if there was grass available, and make a little pad to sit on.

[16:20]

He recommended kusa grass, a kind of grass that grew around that part of India and made good meditation cushions. So you make a little spread of grass and you put your sitting cloth over it, this cloth like we bow on here. Put the sitting cloth over it and that's your meditation place. So he did that and he sat down and crossed his legs and then sat upright and established mindfulness in front of him. Made a little mindfulness area in front of him. Then the Blessed One spent most of the night seated in meditation. And the Venerable Pukasati also spent most of the night seated.

[17:28]

Actually, it doesn't say in meditation. It just said the Buddha spent most of the night seated upright. And the Venerable Pukasati also spent most of the night seated upright. Then the Blessed One thought, this Klansman conducts himself in a way that inspires confidence. Suppose I were to question him. So the Buddha asked the venerable Pukasati, Under whom have you gone forth, monk? Who is your teacher? In whose dharma do you profess? Friend, there is a recluse named Gautama, son of the Shakyas, who went forth from the Shakya clan.

[18:52]

Now a good report of that blessed Gautama has spread to this effect. That blessed one is accomplished, fully enlightened, perfect in true knowledge and conduct, sublime, knower of worlds, incomparable leader of persons to be tamed, teacher of gods and humans, enlightened, blessed, I have gone forth under that blessed one. That blessed one is my teacher. I profess the dharma of that blessed one. But monk, where is that blessed one?

[20:04]

accomplished and fully enlightened now living? That question could be asked a number of times for eons. Where is the Blessed One now living? Fully accomplished. Enlightened. Where is the Blessed One living now? Well in this story you know where he was. He was right nearby. Wow. So Pukasati says, the venerable Pukasati said, there is, friend, a city in the northern country named Sravasti.

[21:22]

The Blessed One, the accomplished and fully enlightened, is now living there. But monk, have you ever seen the Blessed One before? Would you recognize him if you saw him? No, friend, I have never seen the Blessed One before, nor would I recognize him if I saw him. Now, I guess you noticed that Pukasati told the truth, huh? He was a disciple of the Buddha. When I got to that question, I thought, is he going to tell the Buddha? Yeah, I spend quite a bit of time with him. He's a pal.

[22:23]

Do I know him? Of course I know him. I mean, like, am I his disciple or not, you know? No, I was scared he was going to lie to the Buddha and we're going to have rough sutra ahead of us. No, he didn't. He told the Buddha the truth. Very sweetly admitted that he'd never met the person and doesn't know what he looks like. Wouldn't recognize him. Then the Blessed One thought, this Klansman has gone forth from the home life into homelessness under me. Suppose I were to teach him Dharma. So the Blessed One addressed the Venerable Pukasati thus, Monk, I will teach you Dharma.

[23:33]

Listen and attend closely to what I say. Yes, friend, the Venerable Pukasati replied. The Blessed One said this, Monk, this person consists of six elements, six bases of contact. eighteen kinds of mental exploration and has four foundations. The tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations.

[24:39]

And when these tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him or her, he or she is called a sage of peace. One should not neglect wisdom, should preserve truth, cultivate renunciation, and train in peace. This is a summary of the exposition of the six elements. monk, this person consists of six elements, six sense bases, and eighteen elements of mental exploration.

[25:52]

He has four foundations the tides of conceiving do not sweep over one who stands upon these foundations. And when the tides of conceiving no longer sweep over him or her, he or she is called a sage at peace. One should not neglect wisdom. That's the first foundation. One should preserve truth. That's the second foundation. Cultivate renunciation. That's the third foundation. And train in peace. That's the fourth foundation. When one stands on these foundations, one is not swept over by the tides of

[27:06]

conceiving and one is a sage at peace. This is a summary of the exposition of the six elements. it looks like this session is not going to be long enough. Well, unless we have just straight, nothing but Dharma talks. This session is not going to be long enough, or these next two Dharma talks are not going to be long enough to finish this little scripture. Because what I just said was a summary. The expansion of it may take quite a while. So I want to tell you beforehand, be prepared for a major frustration. and a minor one, too.

[28:12]

And a medium-sized one. So, we might not be able to finish, but here we go. The Buddha sat in meditation with Bukkhasati the night before, and he understood that Pukasati was already pretty well concentrated. Matter of fact, Pukasati attained, I believe, either the third or fourth fine material plane trance, arupadhatu jnana, by concentrating by mindfulness of his breathing process. So Pukkosati was already concentrated.

[29:13]

So the Buddha immediately, when the Buddha started teaching Pukkosati, he immediately taught him about insight into ultimate voidness. He gave him the teaching which comes to fruit as arhatship. Now, arhats have an insight, a wisdom, which liberates them personally. They actually have, in a sense, the same wisdom as the Buddha. The Buddha was an arhat. Buddha was arahatto, but also sambuddhassa.

[30:20]

He was an arhat and a comprehensively and thoroughly awakened Buddha. Because not only was he someone who had the Buddha's wisdom, but he had the Buddha's compassion and the Buddha's teaching skill so he could help other people realize Arhatship. So this Buddha was now teaching this fine concentrated monk the Dharma which would help him realize Buddha's wisdom. and the ultimate point of this teaching I already have been giving you from the first day of Sashin." And then I wonder, you know, was I appropriate in doing so? Are you concentrated enough to receive that teaching?

[31:24]

I hope so. I think the nice thing about Zen Sashins is that people are usually fairly concentrated when they're in pain. We don't want you to be in pain, but when you are, you're usually right there. Or when you're in pain and you're not running away from your pain, then you can practice this teaching which the Buddha gave in the latter part of the scripture. Now I would like to say various things at this point. One is that the reason why I didn't come from the beginning of the scripture at the beginning was that I didn't know if there was enough concentration here to be able to cope with the teaching that's coming up here.

[32:30]

Now I feel maybe you can Stay still and listen to it. I thought the first day would be just... I was thinking some people might think, what has this got to do with me? So, now I think maybe you will see that it's not irrelevant. Another thing I'd like to say is that this is a teaching... about insight which comes to fruit as arhatship. Also comes to fruit as, of course, before that, stream entry, once-returner, and never-returner. These three fruits of this insight of Buddha's wisdom. And Zen is a school, and particularly Soto Zen is a school of Mahayana Buddhism.

[33:39]

And Soto Zen is very closely related to the Lotus scripture. And if you read the Lotus scripture, you will find that arhats are almost, you might say almost, disrespected, the way they're talked about in that scripture. They're put in comparison to the bodhisattvas, and the comparison is not a flattering one to the arhats. And yet here is the Buddha teaching somebody to be an arhat. And here is someone who supposedly is a Zen person who is devoted to the Lotus Sutra, also bringing our attention to a practice which comes to fruit as arhatship. But I don't think the Lotus Sutra is really saying that arhats are no good. It's just that in comparison to bodhisattvas... Wow.

[34:48]

They're small potatoes. But compared to... Compared to... Not even compared to, but just looked at by themselves, they are incredibly... They are wonderfully enlightened beings. They are sages of peace. They are saints. It's just that relative to someone who's only concerned for the welfare of others, which is a Buddha or a bodhisattva, compared to the concern for others, personal enlightenment is really small and not relatively speaking, not very important. However, bodhisattvas need to be arhats in order to work for the welfare of all beings.

[35:53]

And the work that they're doing actually the Buddha work is to help all beings open their eyes to the very wisdom which the Arhats have realized. But this thing happened, you can tell the story about the history of Buddhism that as the Arhats went on and got farther from Buddha, they lost track of the point of the Buddha. The point of the Buddha, the raison d'etre of the Buddha, the thing that manifests Buddha is the desire to help other people realize Buddha's wisdom. All other people. All beings. They kind of forgot that, it looks like. They were actually successful at achieving personal liberation.

[37:02]

But they started to distance themselves from the very world of confusion and self-concern, which a Buddha wants to enlighten. So the Mahayana... came along to remind people of what it is to be a Buddha and what it is to be a Bodhisattva. Namely, to take on this thing of this wonderful, joyous project of awakening all beings, of opening people's eyes to Buddha's wisdom. And have that be first and then that you take on the responsibility of realizing Buddha's wisdom so that you can help people wake up to it, so you can help open their eyes and demonstrate it to them.

[38:12]

But first is their welfare, and your welfare, or your self-improvement, you're elevating from delusion to enlightenment is an aspect of this great work of awakening beings. So Mahayana comes and makes that point and in the process sometimes gets a little harsh with people who are concerned with personal liberation. But the Buddha here is not worried about his own personal liberation. It's already happened. And now he's doing the work of liberating this guy, of opening this guy's eyes to wisdom, showing it to him, and waking him up to it. He's going to kind of try to make this guy into an arhat.

[39:16]

Now the Lotus Sutra says, if after the Buddha would succeed in making this guy an arhat, then he would say, okay, now time to be a bodhisattva. But later, the Mahayana said that first of all, you get the person to want to be a bodhisattva, and then you teach him to be an arhat. Because you've got to get the kind of like program straight from the beginning, but this is about... UNIVERSAL LOVE, AND THEN IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH UNIVERSAL LOVE, YOU NEED TO BE... YOU NEED TO HAVE WISDOM. The Buddha said, monk, this person consists of six elements, six sense bases, and 18 kinds of mental exploration.

[41:04]

He has four foundations. He says this person. Now, does he mean this person here talking to you? Could be. The one who's talking, the Buddha, being like other people, consists of six elements, six sense spaces, and eighteen kinds of mental exploration. Everybody, well, certainly everybody has the first two sixes. The third, fourth thing about the Buddha, that he stands or has these four foundations, not everybody has those. So I guess the Buddha was speaking of himself. Because not all people have these four foundations. What are the four foundations?

[42:08]

Do you remember them? What? Well, not ignoring or not being neglectful, not neglecting wisdom and what? Renunciation and truth and Those are the four foundations which this person, the speaker, consists of. He consists of these. This is part of what he is, these four foundations. And having these four foundations, the tides of conceiving no longer wash over him. Yes? Tides of conceiving. Well, tides of conceiving mean the floods, the onslaught of conceptions.

[43:14]

Most people are... overwhelmed by and pushed around by and pulled around by their conceptions. And the conceptions come flooding out. This is the normal thing for a person to be living in the middle of a conception of a burger. a conception of, you know, being insulted, a conception of being praised, a conception of being wronged, a conception of being paid or unpaid, a conception of being alive or dead or threatened or supported. These conceptions, most people most of the time are like living in the tides of these conceivings. One who stands in these is no longer swept over by these conceivings.

[44:21]

In Old English, concept and conceit are the same word. Mm-hmm. So it's like giving birth to some false. Mm-hmm. He said, in Old English? In Middle English, concept and conceit are related. Conceit being that you give too much reality to something or too much credit to something. I'm a little confused because the other day you said that one who realizes that the entire world is the body of the Buddha, which is the Buddha body which I think of as I guess think that's not enlightenment, but at least an aspect of enlightenment, would naturally want to help all beings. So I don't maybe help all beings realize that. Maybe you didn't say that, but that's how I understood it.

[45:35]

So I don't really understand the concept of an arhat, I guess. How can someone be enlightened but not want to then go about helping other beings become enlightened? So she's saying if one realizes that the entire universe is nothing but the true body of the self, everything in the universe is nothing but the true body of the self, then it seemed to follow for you that you would naturally devote your life to the welfare of all beings. Is that what you're saying? So you have trouble understanding how someone would be enlightened and not devote one's life to the welfare of all beings. You don't quite get that. I think a lot of people... What do you call it?

[46:40]

have trouble with this point. It's kind of a little hard to understand. How could you be personally liberated? How could you have enough enlightenment that you would be personally liberated? That you would be at peace? and liberated from suffering and know, understand and know what it means that suffering has ended and not be concerned for welfare of all beings. Now understanding that the entire universe is nothing but the true body of the self might not be the way that you would, you might not understand that even though you were enlightened to the extent that you were personally liberated and knew the end of suffering. it's possible to have a pretty great enlightenment, I would say, such that you know, you understand truth in such a way that you also know that that truth is in fact knowing the end of suffering, but maybe not come up with and not be coughing up expressions like, the entire universe is nothing but the true body of the self.

[47:59]

You might not be talking like that. And you might not see all beings as a true body of the self. It might not work that way for you. Isn't it just that emptiness has two sides on the coin? early schools of Buddhism stressed the anti-nature of the self, whereas Mahayana stresses the full nature of the self, how they say that the self is composed of nothing, and Mahayana would say the self is composed of everything. So it's kind of like looking at which side of the coin you're emphasizing in your vision, maybe. So, Rain's saying that he feels that early Buddhism emphasized one side of the of the emptiness of things, and Mahayana emphasized another aspect of it, something like that.

[49:04]

You could say that, but you could also just say that what Mahayana is, is what the Mahayana people say anyway, what Mahayana is, is that it's a very deep understanding of emptiness. Deeper than understanding emptiness to the extent that would liberate you personally. So it's possible to understand the emptiness of the self and be liberated from self-concern and be liberated from suffering yourself. But there's a deeper understanding of emptiness, a more thorough understanding of emptiness, which you might not yet have attained. Okay? You don't get that?

[50:06]

I get it, but it's hard to accept. It's hard to accept and it's kind of frightening too, I think. But I'll say it again, that it may be the case, and it has been said that this is the case, that you can understand phenomena and their lack of substantial existence. You can understand phenomena and understand that they lack inherent existence. And particularly you can understand the phenomena of your own identity, your own sense of self as insubstantial and be personally liberated from suffering. And that's a deep understanding that you understand it not just in part of your but thoroughly throughout your body, you know, so that you can come up and you can, like, you know, you can make an arhat, you know, what do you call it, Thanksgiving dinner. You can flay them, and they won't get angry at you.

[51:10]

They won't get angry at you. They won't be mean to you. They won't try to hurt you if you're mean to them. I mean real mean. They are, like, personally... liberated from any kind of torment. They're not scared. They won't kill anything, no matter what you say. You know, if you say, okay, I'm going to like peel your skin off unless you kill that fly, they won't do it. I mean, like they're really amazingly at peace. You cannot ruffle them. You cannot scare them. You cannot torment them. You cannot bribe them. They are like not concerned for themselves anymore because they're really... are free of that whole thing. So this is proposed as a level of sanctity, a profound level of sanctity, an amazing thing which the Buddha himself realized, and he wanted to help other people realize that same personal liberation. Now, you could say, didn't the Buddha also want them to realize the vow to be a Buddha?

[52:19]

And I think, yes, he did. He wanted them not just to be personally liberated, but he wanted them to be, start off on the path to be a Buddha. But in this story, you can see, he's primarily trying to make an Arhat, it looks like. At least this is the story which the Arhat tradition is telling about the Buddha. That he wanted to make this guy open to Buddha's wisdom. Now, it is also possible to have a deeper level of insight into emptiness, a more sophisticated level of insight into emptiness. And in order to have this deeper level of insight into emptiness, what you need in order to do this really hard work, you know, really hard work, and this is like hard work for somebody who's got no problems anymore, personally, You're like a... Later in the scripture, if we ever get there, this happiness, which the arhat has, is stable.

[53:34]

It is a real refuge. It does not get undermined, the Buddha says. I mean, he compares it to like some of the, you know, if you, maybe I'm getting off track here. Anyway, I'll get into it later maybe, but basically the arhat happiness is unshakable, stable, dependable, and a real refuge, but he does not have the same understanding as the Buddha. In order to have the understanding of the Buddha, you have to do this extra hard work to go deeper than the arhat's understanding. And in order to go deeper, you have to have a love which encompasses the entire universe. You have to actually love all beings in order to do the very subtle work of studying beyond arhatship.

[54:42]

So the bodhisattva vow is necessary in order to go deeper, to go to a deeper insight, a deeper enlightenment than the enlightenment which will set you personally free. There's various kinds of enlightenments and some of the highest ones are like personal enlightenment and then enlightenment going beyond that. So if another being is suffering and an arhat perceives that suffering, do they have the desire to relieve that suffering? I think that, you know, that they would. That they would feel compassion for every suffering being they met. Yeah, well, I wouldn't say just the ones they met. They might feel suffering for ones that they've heard about, too. They wouldn't not have compassion.

[55:50]

They would have compassion. They'd have to have some compassion even to start practicing in the first place. But would their compassion be the kind of compassion that the Buddha has? No. Why not? Because they don't have the Buddha's wisdom as deeply as the Buddha does. But they have the Buddha's wisdom, because the Buddha has this arhat type of wisdom. The Buddha is an arhat. The Buddha was an arhat. And that was the ideal of the early Buddhism. And I think, again, part of the reason why that was the ideal was the subtlety of the Mahayana path, I think, was too much for the Indian people, generally speaking, around the time of Buddha. They weren't ready for it. And the Mahayanas feel like Buddha actually had that teaching there already, but he didn't unfold it sufficiently, so they unfolded it later, which is the bodhisattva ideal above the arhat ideal.

[56:55]

But the bodhisattvas don't say, well, the arhat thing never really happened. There was that level of insight. Yes? I think it's possible maybe to have this great transcendent insight, or Arhatship, or whatever you call it. But I think if someone is still operating in a very dualistic world, then you can't go any further than that. Because then if you see nirvana over there, maybe you'll have to cheat it. Or whatever you want to call it, meaning God or Heaven. But then there's... Uh-huh. Right. Right. I think sometimes when I think about people who have become false fanatics or fundamentalists, I think some of these people have had some kind of real insight, but they've still got this dualism.

[58:09]

They can't stand anything that's going to keep them, you know, what they see as bizarre. Yeah, could you hear what she said? And this is kind of a horrible thing, actually, that someone would, like, realize nirvana and then say, you know, samsara, no thanks. You know? They have enough insight to realize nirvana, but there's still some dualistic thinking going on which they have not yet thoroughly penetrated. And therefore they kind of don't like samsara. And it looks like that's what happened in the history of Buddhism, that these enlightened beings started to not like the world.

[59:11]

And this is really hard for people to accept, especially people who are drawn to Mahayana Buddhism, that it would be possible for somebody to be more enlightened than they are by a long shot. Somebody who is not messing around with any of the pettiness that we are. I mean, somebody who would put us in the shade, to say the least, in terms of their patience and their detachment from self-concern. but who doesn't like us in some way. They have compassion for us, but also kind of disgusted with what we're up to. I mean, kind of disgusted that we're concerned with some of the things we're concerned about. Like, you know, some of the things we're concerned about. Have you heard about them, you know? Like what seat you get at the theater, you know, whether you got shortchanged, what's for lunch. what your neighbor thinks of you, this kind of stuff, this is like, they actually start slipping into being disgusted with us.

[60:21]

And not wanting to get near us. Now this is a kind of a consequence of that subtle duality. And the Mahayanas came back and said, that's not Buddha. Buddha is totally about, you know, plunging into samsara and loving the world. Loving the world of these people who don't get it. Loving these people, helping these people. So yeah, so the bodhisattva thing is to overcome that duality. But if you are all totally committed to the welfare of all beings, and that's like, no question about that, and that will never be shaken, then you can go visit the realm of Buddha's wisdom, which without that vow you might camp out in. It would be dangerous maybe for you to achieve Arhat's insight if you didn't have the Bodhisattva vow in the background.

[61:31]

So then you achieve the Buddha's wisdom and then there you are all kind of like relaxed and free and happy with unshakable bliss. And then this little vowel starts ringing in your ear. Okay, now time to go to work. What's that again? Time to go to work. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Go back into the sewer. Oh, yeah. [...] Oh, good. Yeah, right. That was the whole point, wasn't it? So, really... If you look at Shakyamuni Buddha really carefully, you might be able to see that really what he was about was loving and helping all beings. But he was also an arhat. Really what he's about is compassion.

[62:43]

It's not about liberation. It's not about personal liberation. It's about liberating others. That's what Buddhism is really about. But in order to liberate others, the Buddha got wisdom. And before he realized that wisdom, the arhat wisdom, he was not ready to give his dharma because, you know, he didn't know what was going on. He was deluded. He had been loving beings for countless eons. He had been devoting his life to the welfare of beings for countless eons. He had been playing loving games with his pals for countless eons. And then he was ready to finally wake up from delusion. And he did. And then he went to work, sharing his dharma.

[63:48]

This scripture is about waking up. But without the bodhisattva vow, without eons of working for the welfare of others, if you would manage to wake up, you might just sort of like rest in that nirvana for a long time and not want to come out and embrace samsara, which is the life of Buddha. You wouldn't be mean to people in the world. I don't think you'd go that far. You would actually feel compassion for them, but you might feel a little bit of disgust. rather than love. you people look like you're in samsara.

[65:22]

Yes? Yes? Yeah. The Bodhisattva vow is equivalent to Mahayana Buddhism. As soon as you take the Bodhisattva vow, you've joined the Mahayana club, the Mahayana movement. So, but it doesn't mean that Arhat couldn't He couldn't do that. He's no longer on the personal liberation track. He's on the big liberation track as soon as he takes these vows to benefit all beings. Do Buddha ever actually mention the way he got this? The word bodhisattva refers to the Buddha prior to being Buddha. That's where the word bodhisattva starts.

[66:25]

It starts as referring to Buddha during his entire lineage of lives leading up to the point of being Buddha. That's where the word bodhisattva starts. Is bodhisattva in life? Or bodhisattva is in life? A bodhisattva means, well in various etymologies the word bodhisattva, but bodhisattva means being, being which is bodhi, being which is enlightenment. It is not an enlightened being, but a being who is enlightening. enlightening herself, enlightening all beings. And sometimes they say it's being whose essence is bodhi. It's a sattva, a being whose essence is bodhi.

[67:27]

But the word essence is added in there. That word essence probably is not good to have there. Just being, being, what kind of being? Bodhi being. That's a bodhisattva. It's the being who's about bodhi. That's a bodhisattva. And the Buddha, all the eons which came to fruit as the Buddha, Shakyamuni, all those eons, the whole thing, the whole process, all that being which led up to this Buddha, the whole process was bodhi. It's the long, infinite story of bodhi. That's the story of Buddha. And then after the Buddha died, the word Bodhisattva wasn't used for all the disciples. It looked like the disciples weren't thinking that they also were on this long evolution to be Buddha. It was kind of like there was this long evolution of this Bodhisattva culminating in Buddha.

[68:28]

And then this Buddha Dharma showered over all the beings. And then the beings, when they received the Buddha Dharma, then they all just went pop, [...] pop into Arhatship. So the Buddha Dharma reigned over the ocean of beings and then everybody that absorbed the Buddha Dharma then became liberated. See that vision? Got this long progress to make a Buddha, then you have the Buddha, then the Buddha Dharma comes out, reigns on all beings, all beings then become individually liberated. And if it just keeps raining on beings, then the beings just keep getting liberated. But that's not the same story as the Buddha, who has this infinite life and infinite evolution. The Mahayana saw that this idea of the Dharma raining on the people and waking them up, it had this side effect of making the people who are waking up not want to be Buddhas or not take on the Buddha role. So Mahayana says, no, let's have them actually become Buddhas.

[69:30]

Let's have them take on the vow to be Buddhas. And in Zen, it's let's have them take on the vow to be Buddha right now. Right now. Today. Because, in fact, what this life is about is that the being which is about Bodhi is just waiting for the right time to pop into Buddha. But part of being ready to pop is being willing to cope with the conditions for popping. Which, for example, are to drop all craving for something other than this. When there's no craving for something other than this, there's wisdom. And then there's truth.

[70:34]

and then there's renunciation, and then there's peace. That's part of what the Bodhi Sattva thing's about, is, you know, it isn't that just because you're beyond personal liberation that you then sort of say, well, okay, I'm not, you know, I'll just be a jerk. I'll just, you know, I'll just be totally into craving because, you know, personal liberation is like not important. Yes? Is Zen happening now similar as Dzogchen? Uh-huh. Yeah, similar. Dzogchen. So some people say that the Zen and the Vajrayana are similar in the sense that they're about actually realizing Buddhahood now.

[71:44]

The Mahayana thing is like this long evolution like the Buddha went through. But the other side is that this long evolution of Buddha is also kind of just a dream, that the Buddha's not really evolving. Just like in the story, you know, the simple little story. There you are, Buddha's disciple, and Buddha's right in front of you, and you've never met him. So that's more like the Bodhisattva way, is that Buddha's right in front of you, right now. And you're meeting Buddha right now. because the entire universe is nothing but the true body of the self. But you can't really, like, accept that and realize that if you're still messing around with what's going on.

[72:46]

Say, well, yeah, but still I wish this person would leave now, or I wish this person would stay a little longer. or I wish this feeling would leave or this feeling would stay. If you're meddling with your experience, then of course you close your eyes, you close your cells to understanding that the entire universe is nothing but the true body of the self. And not meddling with beings is the same as being devoted to beings. So that's why being devoted to beings and helping beings is the same as insight. Well, at least we did a summary of the sutra.

[73:56]

Yes? What's the difference? I don't know. But anyway, I heard you say, what's the difference? Well, what comes to my mind is something like this, that if you were personally liberated, really, then you might say, well, then if other beings were still suffering, it really wouldn't bother you.

[75:27]

You might say, and now if other beings' suffering did bother you, then you wouldn't really be that liberated because you'd be bothered. Right? So personal liberation, in a way, you wouldn't be bothered by other people's suffering. And if you were, you wouldn't be personally liberated. So the beings who care about, who are bothered by other people's sufferings, In some sense, they're not liberated. They're still kind of like something's bothering them, namely other people suffering. So bodhisattvas, in a way, although they're personally liberated, they don't have a very good personal liberation because they're still bothered by other people suffering. So they attain personal liberation, but then they come back down again and get bothered. So in a way, to stop at personal liberation means you stop at, hey, I'm okay.

[76:42]

And you really are. And other people's suffering doesn't really bother you. Of course you care about them and like them to do well, but you're not really bothered by them. You're not upset. You really are at peace. Whereas bodhisattvas are actually bothered by other people's suffering. They come back down into the sewer. In a sense, they go beyond that personal liberation and come back into the world and suffer with beings. And that is their joy. Their joy is to be bothered. And the Buddha did that over and over, came back into the world. Now, not necessarily from nirvana. So in some sense, we've gone beyond Buddha. We're even better than Buddha if we're bodhisattvas. And Buddha will come back someday and be our student. So that's the difference between bodhisattva and personal liberation is they're not personally liberated.

[77:51]

They're not into that. But they need that understanding which those who have personal liberation have. They need that. They can't be unwise, they have to be wise. But there's something about them that the slightest bit of duality is something they have to keep working on. So I was talking to somebody yesterday, it's this expression, when the Dharma does not yet fill your body and mind, you think it's sufficient. But I think, you know, it's like, it's filled you a little bit. And you think it's sufficient. You're okay. You're fine. And you can like, let's say, prove it too and impress people.

[78:54]

But when the Dharma fills you, you realize something's missing. namely, somebody else isn't enlightened. Although they're, in essence, not in essence, but really they're about Buddha, really they're about enlightenment, and they won't be happy until they realize it. That's somehow bothering you. Something's missing, unless that person also. And not only is it just that something's missing in terms of that person, but what's missing is your working with them and your life with them of helping them realize it. So when you're really full of dharma, you need to work for this other thing. If something's, more work is to be done. So arhats are done, and it says in the arhat text, the Buddha said himself, I've done what needs to be done. I've done my job.

[79:56]

He can retire now. But as a bodhisattva, he had to go back to work. He'd been working all that time. He did his job. His heart was content. But then, knock, knock, hey, Shakyamuni, guess what? You're actually not in retirement. Come on out and teach. So he did. But the way he taught was to teach other people to be arhats. But actually, the Mahayana's people said, no, he taught other people how to be bodhisattvas too, but they suppressed the texts. Because people in India were not ready for this, for the Buddha thing. Then years later, they brought out the teaching of how to be a Buddha, which is after... you're personally liberated, then you really go to work.

[80:59]

So Buddhism is not about personal liberation, it's about what the personally liberated beings would do, how they would work. And the fact that personal liberation is just a stage before the bodhisattva ideal is taken on. Wendy? Is it that they're bothered or that they... Well, the bodhisattvas, if they've realized this wisdom, they're not going to manipulate it. but other people can manipulate them. They can be bothered into response, but they won't, like, you know, manipulate back.

[82:10]

But, you know, the word karuna means something like, what do you call it, like, gouged? Gouged or... or injured happiness. That's the word Karuna. There's Maitri, right? Love, loving kindness. Maitri, Maha Maitri, great loving kindness. And there's also Karuna. Maitri means like loving people, feeling love, wanting them to be happy. But Karuna has this thing about it kind of like hurts to see suffering beings. They kind of gouge at you a little bit. It bothers you. But you say, well, it's a different kind of bother, of course, if you're quite advanced. But it's a bother like, it's not necessarily a bad bother. It's just, you know, it's like, what is it? It's like a grain of sand in a oyster or something. So I don't want to lead too heavy on this bother, but anyway, something's missing.

[83:23]

Namely, you've got a relationship here that needs to be matured. Every relationship you meet where the being has not yet achieved maturity, something's missing. What's missing? Their maturity. That's missing. And you're not exactly okay until they realize that. You need them to become Buddha. You've got to work this out. On one sense, you're kind of relaxed and saying, okay, I'm not in a big hurry about this. If we can't work this out in the next few weeks, it's okay. All right? It's not like you're impatient, you know, and start beating people up to get enlightened. It's not that kind of bothered. It's more like bothered in the sense that you would be bothered if you didn't work on the relationship. That kind of bothered. If you said, okay, this is one person that I don't have to work it out with.

[84:24]

I'm okay, and if this person isn't enlightened, no problem. If you felt like that, you'd feel bothered. Something would say, no, no. It's not going to work. So if something around in that bothered, nagged, harassed, That's one extreme. Another one is you just need, the bodhisattvas need all other beings to be Buddha. There's kind of a need they have. It could be a mild need, you know, kind of pleasant need. But it's a need. Their nature is they need other beings to be Buddha. But they also need to not be in a rush for other people to being Buddha. They need people to mature and develop and realize that potential. They need it. Now, if the Dharma doesn't fully fill you, then you don't need other people to do that. You're just like, cool. And you got, you know, you're done.

[85:25]

If other people aren't enlightened, you wish them well. You know, geez, I wish you were. And if you do, terrific. But you don't personally need to work out your relationship with them that you're going to be devoted to them attaining Buddhahood. If you didn't do that with them and they don't realize that, it's okay. You're okay. You're a complete, perfect unit. Bodhisattva's got problems. They need... A bodhisattva needs each of us to realize supreme, perfect enlightenment. They need that. And if we haven't, something's missing for them. That's because the Dharma has... That's because they are totally pervaded by Dharma that they feel that way. And if you're not totally pervaded by that, you feel that for like maybe one or two, three people, or maybe for nobody, but anyway, you're...

[86:32]

Maybe you're fine. So some people are, you know, filled enough to be personally liberated. Some people are not filled enough even to be personally liberated. But when you're filled all the way, then you're a bodhisattva. When dharma completely pervades you, you're a bodhisattva or a Buddha. And you've got problems. Good problems. Buddha problems, but problems. Yeah? Yeah? No, you're not identified. Not identified. Not identified or disidentified. If you're identified with everything, Dharma doesn't fill your body and mind. You're cool. Bodhisattvas are not identified with other beings. Right. That's why we don't identify. Right. So I just dropped that identification thing, okay?

[87:35]

Huh? Good, thank you. I don't know if you feel the other being's pain, but you feel pain at the other... Other people's pain pains you. But you don't feel their pain, I don't think, unless you're a special bodhisattva. You know, just regular bodhisattvas do not feel other people's pain, they feel their own. which is plenty, and other people's pain is a problem for regular bodhisattvas. You don't have to be a clairvoyant or a clairsensial whatever to be a bodhisattva. But if that's the kind of species you are, that's fine. Now, we don't identify with the other people's suffering. We need them to become free of it. We need them to become free of suffering. We need it, bodhisattvas. When I say we, I mean those bodhisattvas.

[88:36]

I'm not one of them. But I like the idea of bodhisattvas. Now some people are raising their hands and other people are like going deeper and deeper into samsara. Yes? My question was, you know, there's a virus and that curia, and you're talking about sinking all beings, sinking beings, and how do you deal with that? But it also seems like they're all, they love their desire to attach. How do you approach, I mean, they really don't, myself included, sometimes, you know, I sit and I see all this stuff come up, and... That's a funny question you're posing. You're wondering what now? What about people who love their attachments? What about people who love their attachments? The difficulty of liberating all beings. Yeah. When I brush my teeth, there goes 10,000-something.

[89:37]

There's actually killing beings. And the difficulty of people, myself included, have lots of desires and attack and don't want to become free from that. So, that's something, I guess the difficulty I've seen liberating all beings. Well, this is really a funny question, but it's a good question. Okay? It's a good question. But, you know, I see the tantros leaving town. Going to the bathroom or something? Are you going to the bathroom? Okay. So anybody that needs to go to the bathroom, go to the bathroom or, you know, move your legs or whatever. Make yourself comfortable. Because this is a good question. Okay. Funny, but good. Okay, so thinking about this thing, then you've got a problem with brushing your teeth.

[90:29]

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