So today, my birthday is, I'm 52 years old, and I just wanted to tell you that I feel very grateful to have lived these 52 years, and I'm not threatening or anything, but I've had enough. It's not like I'm sick of it or anything like that exactly, but I just feel like I've been very fortunate. It's been worthwhile. If nothing more happens, it's okay with me. Happy birthday to you. [...] Even I took care of me to do sing that song several times I Hope it's been worthwhile for you so far, too.

[01:13]

I When I was first came to Zen Center, I was swimming in the off ocean beach and I Couldn't get back in. I guess I was in undertow. I Didn't know what undertow was And so I looked back and saw across the big cement wall there, it says, dangerous undertow. I said, this must be undertow. And so anyway, I kind of died. I don't know if I went unconscious or anything, but I sort of went unconscious. But as you see, I got into shore somehow. I didn't swim into shore. I couldn't. But just before I kind of conked out, I thought that, and I thought about, I'd just seen my first Buddhist funeral, and I thought, what kind of funeral would they do for me, being such a new student?

[02:19]

And... I guess I decided it wouldn't be a very good funeral. So I'd probably have had a chance to live a little longer. I felt like I had more to accomplish, but now I feel kind of like, not exactly I've accomplished everything, but I don't so much feel like my life would be cut short now. Seems like it's already full. Even though more could happen, that might be really good. present, but we could understand Dharma better. Which would be great. Please stay in the world. I'm willing, but it's not out of greed anymore. On Sunday I gave a real difficult talk to the Sunday group, and I thought today I should have asked them beforehand if they were up for a really difficult talk, because what I intended to do on Sunday was basically lay out all of Buddhism, you know, in a short form, in a simple form, but still it would... I wanted to get a sense of the overall practice and actually how to do it, learn how to do it actually during that time.

[03:54]

But people couldn't stand it. Some people couldn't stand it. But if I'd asked them and they were up for it, then they probably would have been different. But I didn't ask them if they were up for it. They wanted a challenging lecture, a challenging presentation. So do you want a challenging presentation today? Yeah. Okay, so basically what I said, I'll say even faster to you, that the one great cause and condition for the appearance of awakening or Buddha in the world is the wish to open and disclose the Buddhist wisdom so that beings can awaken to it and enter it. Open and demonstrate so that beings can understand and enter.

[05:01]

And open means to open the teaching, but also means to somehow cause beings' ears and eyes and heart to open to the teaching. and then demonstrate it. The wish that beings will... Not so much the wish that I or... I will open and demonstrate, but that beings will be opened and it will be demonstrated. The wish that that would happen. And then the wish that after it's demonstrated that they will understand it. And then, of course, enter it and live it. And when this... when this becomes kind of a living thing in us, then that's when we personally want that. For all beings, particularly. In the Lotus Sutra it doesn't say that the wish that this would happen, you wish that it would happen before yourself. But when it happens to us individuals, it has to be that wish with wanting others to have it first.

[06:13]

Because we're The wish itself, pure and simple, is the cause. But since we have self-clinging, we have to hope that others have it first when it happens to us. Then that will be just like an enlightened one who would have the wish. Except an enlightened person wouldn't even have to say others before herself. That would be understood. That they would want that. because that's what enlightenment is. But actually others don't get enlightened before enlightened ones. That doesn't happen. They get enlightened at the same time. What if you say that enlightenment was that what? Pardon? I just missed that last part. You said enlightenment was that what? Well, bodhisattvas wish that others will be enlightened before themselves. But actually... people are not enlightened before bodhisattvas.

[07:16]

They're enlightened at the same time. Just before that, was it the wish that you said? The wish. For a normal person, you have the wish that all beings will attain liberation, and you have the wish to attain liberation for the benefit of others, and that the benefit will be for them before you. Is that what you said enlightenment was? Yeah. Enlightenment is... is... is that you want others to be enlightened before yourself, if you happen to have a self on hand. If you don't have a self on hand, then you just want them to be enlightened. So that's the main, that's called the wish, or the seed. And then the way to protect that seed, I've been talking about in this class too, is by uprightness, or renunciation including finally renunciation of that wish and understanding that you have that wish but that wish is not you know when you wish you have some imagination of that wish like you wish some person will be happy and you have some idea of what happiness would be but that's not what it will be

[08:43]

So you have to renounce, finally, your ideas of what happiness would be for people, what enlightenment would be for people. In other words, you have to have this thought, you have to have this mind which has no abode, a mind which has no address, a mind which doesn't grasp demons or reject demons. or grasp Buddhas or reject Buddhas. Rejecting a demon is called demonic possession. If you fight demons, you're possessed by a demon. Of course, if you embrace demons and hold on to demons, you're possessed by a demon. If you grab it, it grabs you. But if you reject it, it gets you. Also, if you grab Buddha, you're demonically possessed.

[09:45]

It's not the same with Buddhas. If you grab Buddha, Buddha doesn't grab you. If you grab Buddha, a demon grabs you. If you reject Buddha, a demon grabs you. It's probably slightly better to grab Buddha than to reject Buddha, but not much. Maybe it's slightly better to reject Buddha. Maybe that's better. I don't know. They're both bad. So renunciation or being upright means you don't reject Buddha or identify or grab Buddha. You don't reject demons. You don't identify or grab demons. That's called being upright. That's called renunciation. You don't grab or reject good. You don't grab or reject evil. You can pick evil up and set it down, and that's called good.

[10:50]

Being able to hang out in evil situations, see how they work, and the evil doesn't take any effect. If you have to stay away from evil, again, you're a slave of evil. So renunciation, right? And that's the way you have to approach these cases, these stories, too. You have to renounce, you have to read these stories, and you have to accept that you're going to have some idea, like you're going to think, well, I do understand this story, or I don't understand this story, or finally I understand one of these stories. I think I really get it. And that's fine. If that ever happens, no problem. And then just let go of that, or give it up. And give it up means give up, you know. Give it, you know, dedicate it, you know, don't throw it on the ground, step on it, kick it.

[11:53]

Respectfully give it up. So if you think you understand these stories, think you don't understand these stories, fine, give it up. When you come to the story, you bring all your imagination with you, give it up. But giving up your imagination about these stories is not also give up your idea of what giving up means. In other words, really renounce everything. And then you'll be happy. However, there's more to be done. Once you do, this is called, what is it, Dogen says, we vow with all sentient beings from this life on throughout countless lives to hear the true Dharma, that upon hearing it no doubt will arise in us, nor will we lack in faith.

[12:56]

That upon meeting it we will renounce worldly affairs, we will renounce worldly affairs and maintain the Buddha Dharma. So renouncing the worldly affairs means renunciation. Renouncing worldly affairs means renouncing attachment. Worldly affairs are attachments. It doesn't mean you renounce breakfast. It means you renounce your attachments to breakfast. It means you renounce your certainty that actually this is breakfast. Like most of you at breakfast time, don't you think it is breakfast? Aren't you pretty darn sure that it's breakfast? And if somebody tells you it's not, don't you think, uh-huh, sure, it's not breakfast, okay, fine. But you really do think it's breakfast, don't you? But to be deeply suspicious at breakfast time that what's happening is what you think is breakfast.

[14:00]

And notice that you do think it's breakfast, but you're suspicious of yourself. And to give that up, to give it up. In other words, let breakfast be breakfast. If you let breakfast be breakfast, OK, just let breakfast be breakfast. That doesn't mean you say, this is breakfast. To say this is breakfast isn't letting breakfast just be breakfast. It's doing something a little bit more than breakfast. It's saying, this is breakfast. And this is really breakfast. Or this is not breakfast. This is brunch. Or it's breakfast time, but this doesn't constitute... I don't call this a breakfast. You know, you call this breakfast? Brown rice. This is not a breakfast. What I call a breakfast is... Anyway, this is not a breakfast.

[15:05]

Breakfast is eggs and toast and coffee. It's not this Japanese breakfast. That's not a breakfast. So this is not a breakfast is also not letting breakfast be breakfast. Rejecting or affirming breakfast is a worldly affair. Okay? Renouncing worldly affairs means while you're eating your breakfast you just let it be. You don't mess with it. you have thoughts like, there you are thinking, oh, looks like, looks like, I don't know, looks like a table and there's a bowl, looks like that. And then you notice, and I think that's true, and you renounce it. This is very difficult and very necessary in order to protect. If you want to cause trouble, you don't have to do this. If you want to cause trouble in the world, go right ahead and don't let breakfast be breakfast. You know, Mess with breakfast. Walk in, sit down, and attribute reality to breakfast.

[16:10]

Or take away reality. Give and take reality like a great demon does. This exists. This does not exist. Do that kind of thing. Be a big-time philosopher at breakfast time. Capitalize on breakfast. You might get famous. Do you understand? If you want to cause trouble, please do that. you'll be successful. If you want to have peace in the world, then renounce breakfast. Renounce your ideas of breakfast and let breakfast be breakfast. Okay? And also, that's how to protect this great bodhisattva vow. Renounce all your ideas of what it is. Renounce your sense of whether you're doing it or not doing it, whether you're successful or not successful. Renounce all your ideas of how things are going for you. You will, however, have ideas of how things are going to you. And even if you don't, and you're just cruising along real cool, somebody will walk up to you and say, you think you're a bodhisattva?

[17:11]

Well, take another guess. You are one selfish bugger. You don't know the first thing about bodhisattva. Matter of fact, you do not have a mind that has no abode. Your mind totally has an abode. And you think, gee, like, I thought I had pretty well gone beyond having a mind within a boat, and this person is telling me I do. And actually, this person is wrong. This person is a jerk. I'm going to kill this person. I think aside from this person, no one else knows. Now, some of you think, actually, I don't have a mind that has a mind. my mind definitely has an abode and so nobody has to criticize you but anyway the slightest deviation from leaving things alone and you got problems and then if you can renounce worldly affairs then you can maintain the Buddha Dharma

[18:25]

And maintaining the Buddha Dharma is what... Well, that's the point. Renunciation isn't for the sake of renunciation. Giving up the world and giving up attachment is not... The point of that is not to give up attachment. Giving up attachment is not a great thing in itself. It's just that that will protect this thing that is a great thing, namely, enlightenment. Enlightenment is the point. But in order to have enlightenment, the price of admission is renunciation. Now, I kind of, as a joke, say sorry. Because I'm not really sorry anymore, because it's just the way it is. And I don't know if that was the hard part on Sunday, but that's what you have to do if you want to really be happy.

[19:33]

Or like I said on Sunday also, actually Jack said, he says, I don't care, but in a nice way. The way to take care of what you care about most is to not care about it. Now, how do you maintain the Buddha Dharma once you've renounced everything? And that's what maybe we can work on tonight. If you've renounced everything. Then we can, like, we know we can maintain the Buddha Dharma if you're ready. But if you're not, It's okay. We'll just wait for a couple more years. Uh, Derek? Um, I'd like to ask something. Um, I think I'm having deep, really deep problems with, um, the attack of, my own attack of renunciation.

[20:47]

You have a problem with renunciation? Oh, yes. Yes, it's hard. I know I have problems, too. And I don't know right now if I can explain that, but I try to tap that. Like maybe using your example of the breakfast, like having breakfast and maybe deeply questioning the idea that what is actually happening is breakfast. Is that right? That's what you call renunciation? Well, you know, it's a kind of warm-up to it, but not really. Like, questioning it... Questioning is good. It's better than just sort of like cruising along thinking that it is what you think it is. I think my problem is that very often I don't know what I can give up because sometimes I just see in myself, but I must admit sometimes at least I think I also see it in other people.

[22:06]

that I use this word at breakfast, or like Buddhist practice, and I use it exactly to conceal the fact that basically I have no idea what this is, and I don't know how to act. So, if I see this, I don't know why I can give up. Or... Could you please stop? Just for a second. Okay, so he said he has a word or something about breakfast to conceal the fact that he doesn't know what breakfast is. He said, actually, that he has no idea what breakfast is. Okay? The fact... I would change it slightly. The fact of... Not the fact that. The fact of... not having an idea of breakfast, okay? There's a situation of not having an idea of breakfast.

[23:11]

There's a situation where there's breakfast and there's like breakfast. And there's no idea of breakfast in the neighborhood. Where there's breakfast and it's completely free of any conception of breakfast. Now there's a situation like that. There's like this breakfast, like nothing, there's a breakfast sitting there that no words are reaching. No words, no ideas reaching that breakfast. Then, that's called emptiness. When breakfast is just sitting there and all the words in the universe are like, kind of just don't make it. You know, there's kind of all, it'll fall off the table and bump into the door and bumps off the walls. But the breakfast is just sitting there, completely, you know the word innocent? Completely innocent of any word. A completely innocent breakfast.

[24:14]

That's called an empty breakfast. But it's not like the breakfast isn't there. It's completely there. As a matter of fact, it's like burning breakfast. radiant, innocent breakfast. Innocent means unhurt. An undamaged breakfast is sitting there. Undamaged by conception, okay? Then we overlay that situation of the emptiness of the breakfast by letting a word grab it. That's right. That's what we do. We overlay emptiness with a form, with a word, an idea, or something. And then the breakfast is hurt, in a sense, by that emptiness, by that word. Okay? Yes? What is very appealing to me right now is, I think I heard you say, I don't know what it was,

[25:22]

And that kind of really moved me that... No, I don't want to paraphrase it, but to say what I experienced. I think I would like to try to fill every kind of situation. And I think I heard you say that... non-attachment is, first of all, coming completely attached, or in other words, I would really like to experience what breakfast is, or I would really like to be present in the actuality of that situation. Right. I don't know if this is what you meant, but also another way of, I think Jacqueline at the end of the last class said, well, is renunciation total engagement? Yes. So, even total engagement and attachment is renunciation, but not total engagement and attachment thinking that's not attachment. Catching yourself at attachment and like really being attached, then you'll renounce the attachment.

[26:31]

But it's attachment that you know you're getting into the attachments. That isn't even quite what you said. Is that what you meant? Huh? Don't try to not be attached. I mean, you can do it if you want to, but it's just, you know, don't try to not be attached until you've been... until you have... Don't try to not be attached until you have actually... understood what attachment is, and become free of it. Once you're free of attachment, then you can do this very difficult thing called trying to be free of attachment. But trying to be free of attachment is really tough if you haven't already been able to do it. If you haven't been able to become free of attachment, then what have you been able to do? You've been able to be attached. So why don't you do what you already can do? Don't try to be unattached before you're unattached, in other words.

[27:41]

Don't try to not be a human before you're not a human. Now, while you're human and you're good at that, be a human. Once you're a human thoroughly, you'll not be a human anymore. When a human's completely a human, a human's not a human. When a human's half-heartedly a human, a human's a human. And That's fine, but it's miserable to be half-heartedly a human and trapped in that. So if you're wholeheartedly a human, that's called renunciation of worldly affairs. Worldly affairs are basically to be half-hearted. That's a basic worldly affair. Worldly affairs are holding out a little bit. Keeping a little bit back, just in case. this particular thing is not going to work out for you. To take everything and put it in on something makes you totally vulnerable.

[28:54]

And you're completely who you are. And that's called Buddha. And then you can maintain the Buddhadharma. And then you can use this stuff that's happening as turning the Dharma wheel. So first of all, you have to like, you got it? You got the Dharma wheel? Okay. Renounce it. Once you renounce it, you can pick it up and use it. Yes, miss? Sir, would you say that It's totally renounced. Is it very receptive? Yes. Totally vulnerable. You're vulnerable. Is it characterized by receptivity? Is it characterized by receptivity? No, it's not characterized by anything.

[29:59]

If something's characterized by receptivity, it's not as receptive. It's not even characterized by receptivity. Is a black hole characterized by receptivity? No. But it is. It sucks everything in and sends everything out. So this is a state of receptivity. You are very receptive, but it's not characterized by that. You can't characterize it by anything. It's very vulnerable. It's vulnerable to all beings. Because you're totally engaged, you've renounced all defense. Therefore, the anxiety of all beings comes, you know, not exactly inundates you, but it's totally available to you and you're totally available to it. And you don't grab the anxiety of beings. If you grab the anxiety of beings, the anxiety of beings will grab you.

[31:01]

And also, if you grab the anxiety of beings, you can only grab the anxiety of a limited number of beings with your grabbers. If you're vulnerable, you can be vulnerable to the suffering and anxiety of all things. Because you're not like saying, okay, I'd like not to have the anxiety of the women today, or the children, or the frogs. You don't set the agenda of what you're vulnerable to in that case. So vulnerability, yes. Receptivity. And also, in that vulnerability, this vow of helping all other people comes pouring out of you. So now we have this case. And this case is about this touch. This touch that transforms meanings.

[32:03]

So usually we we are touched or we touch people and if there isn't renunciation this is not the touch we're talking about we're talking about the touch that happens in a state of renunciation and this story is demonstrating this touch So in this story I propose that these people in this story have practiced renunciation and then in the state of renunciation the Buddha Dharma is maintained. There's a touch. There's an interaction between them. Something happens. Something flows out and in between them. They're both vulnerable to each other. And in that vulnerability, one talks, and then the other one listens, and then the other one talks, and the other one listens, and then they wake up together.

[33:14]

But they mention that Luosan woke up because Yantou, I guess, was pre-enlightened. He had awakened in another case. So this is Luopo's wake-up time, but actually, Yanto was awakened at the same time. And Yanto's vow that Luopu would wake up before him was manifested, was realized in this story. Yanto very sincerely wanted Luopu and all beings to wake up. And he had renounced everything. So he was ready to, you know, have the Dharma happen. And and Luapu had vowed to renounce worldly affairs upon hearing the Dharma and so they could do this together.

[34:16]

Yes, Mahinda. When you talk about your birthday, I think it was the very depressing birthday party I've ever been. It was what? Your birthday was very depressing for me. Just now? No, when you talk about your birthday. Earlier in the class? Yes. It was a depressing birthday party for you? Yeah. I feel my question is very selfish to ask something like that. I feel embarrassed and that's selfish to talk about it, but I ask you anyway. When you said you had enough, it just told me it's... I'm embarrassed because the question is selfish because I think Your life is not just yours.

[35:36]

I can't call it goal or purpose, but I don't know another word. If the thing is happening is awakening all beings and everybody, if you're just talking about your life, yours so what about us what about your student what about the other people around you i just i feel if i i feel selfish because using your teaching and saying that also you just you just you take it so individual to your legs i understand what you're saying What I meant to say was, here's another way to say what I'm saying is, I'm very happy what's happened so far. I feel like I've been very fortunate to have the life I've had, and I'm not living more because I haven't got enough yet, so I want to get some more.

[36:42]

Okay? What about that what you say, are you having enough? I've had enough. Good stuff happened to me. I don't need more good stuff to happen to me. I've had enough to justify my life. I'm willing to live longer if you want me to. But it's not any longer that I want to get some more stuff before I go. It's actually, I don't particularly need to see any more sunrises or sunsets. I don't particularly need to see the laundry hanging on the line again. I've seen it enough. I feel full. I've had enough to eat. And I feel very fortunate that I got to see a white sheet hanging on the line in the sun, waving in the breeze, and smell the sun. How about awakening all the beings and just... That's what I want. But... Isn't it because of you it just is happening?

[37:45]

Because of the teaching and because of you it's happening? Yeah, but if it's the case, okay, that I should leave, Tonight, I personally have been around long enough. If you would want me to go, if you would like me to leave tonight, I would be happy to leave. But if you want me to stay, I'll stay too. If I'm not used to you. And I'm willing to have no more fun If you want me to stay and have no more fun for many, many years, many, many eons, I'm willing to do it because I've had so much fun so far. So, do you understand? Isn't it that much giving and giving of the teaching, you give it to the other people, it's not fun. It doesn't count. It's not fun anymore. I didn't understand your question this time. What is it? If what? If... The teaching and all of that you're giving to the other people?

[38:48]

Yes. What about it? It's not... It's nothing. It's not fun anymore. You're asking me if it's fun for me? Yeah. It's the most fun thing of all time. It's much more fun than everything that's happened before. I love it. It's wonderful. That's why I'm so happy. But I've had enough. I don't need any more. However, if I have to do more... it'll be more fun for me. But if it isn't, I won't stop just because it isn't, but it will be fun. That's the thing. I have to keep teaching. I have to give up the fun of teaching. However, I won't not have the fun of teaching after I give it up. I'm not talking about the fun, actually. I'm talking about what's happening. Isn't it there? Isn't it kind of the purpose of life is happening for the other people, they can use you?

[39:54]

Yeah, that's right. Yes, I agree. So what's the problem? I don't quite get the problem. Do you have a problem still? I just, I felt there is no, no purpose really, nothing. That's it. I want to ask you, is that it? I want to ask you, what is it? You want to ask me what? From your talk, I just saw there's no purpose. There's no purpose? You have a view, just you smell it and you saw the sunrise and all of that for a while and that's it. That's enough, right? If you feel that way, then there is no purpose of living. What is that? Well, I kind of want to say, yeah, that's right.

[40:59]

There's no purpose in living. I have no purpose. I don't care about anything. Nothing matters. But, That wasn't very nice, the way I said it. Jack said it, but nicely. But he said it nicely, and that's nice that he said it nicely, but I don't want to say it nicely. Because for me, it's more important not to say it nicely, but it's more important that I really get across that I don't care. The reason why I want to say that so strongly, that I don't care, is because I want to tell you that I don't care. And you know why I want to tell you that? Because that's what I'm saying. And you know what I want to show you? You know what I want to show you?

[42:02]

Take a guess. Take a guess what I want to show you. Come on, guess. You have sunglasses? You're getting close. I'll put them down now. Now what do you think I want to show you? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. How many guesses? You get many guesses. I think you're going to get it pretty soon. You remember the original, how we got into this? I said, I don't care. And I said, what do you think, what's the reason for me telling you that I don't care? Why would I be telling you that I don't care? What am I trying to show you? No. No.

[43:04]

I'm telling you I don't care. What am I trying to show you by telling you I don't care? Do you? Do you care? Do I care? Yeah, I'm showing that I care, but also, what do I care about? What do I care about? What about my question? And what is it about your question that I care about? What's the reason why I care about your question? What do I want? You want me to give it. Right. I don't care. I'm not here for sunrises or sunsets. Although there's going to be plenty more and I'm going to love them. That's not what I'm here for. I'm here for you to get it. So in order for you to get it, what do I have to show you? Hmm?

[44:10]

What do I have to show you? What has to be shown to you? Are you kind of like, what's the matter? You were closer for a while, now you're kind of like going to give around. Not that far. Parking lot? I'm a little bit slow to get there, I think. Well, it's not so much slow. It's more like it's hard to settle into it. I'm being myself. I want to show you me being me. That's what I'm trying to show you. And me is somebody that said he didn't care. But of course, but I don't, is what I'm saying.

[45:16]

I can't be confined by my idea of what caring looks like. I wish you stay around until I come back from Kripa and I please you. To like, let me be myself. I vowed to do that because I think that will help everyone. I vowed to do that, but I'm not going to stay around. Because nobody can. Bodhisattvas don't stay around. They keep coming back moment after moment, but they don't stay around. They try again and again and again and again because they love you. And even if they slip, they always come back after they slip because you're their joy and they want you to be free. And they do that by being themselves. Because being yourself is nothing at all.

[46:20]

Mahin is something, Susan is something, but Susan being Susan is nothing at all. Susan being Susan is a mind that has no abode. Greg being Greg is a mind that has no abode. Do you understand? But isn't it... And Eileen being Eileen is called renouncing worldly affairs. Eileen being Eileen is the same as leaving breakfast alone. Do you understand? Yes. Thank you for your... whatever you just did. What was that? Bruce? Could a bodhisattva renounce the vow to save all suffering beings? Renounce it? Yeah.

[47:25]

You renounce that too, yeah. In order to purify it. That's your only care. A bodhisattva's only care is to save all beings. And finally you have to renounce that too, in order to really bring it to perfection. Because, you know, there's no beings to save. And so on. And also, any idea you have, if you have a desire to help all beings, you're going to have some idea of that, and you have to renounce that idea. That's not renounce, that's not like, that doesn't stop the vow. That makes it into this pure, you know, light ray. Before you renounce the idea, every aspect around that vow, it's a little bit wobbly. That's why this vow goes beyond your life. That's why the vow is not stuck in your own... When you die, the vow doesn't end. The pure vow doesn't end when your life ends.

[48:32]

That's what this case is about. Arising and ceasing. Arising and vanishing unceasingly. What is that? That's what's happening, right? Arising and vanishing without cease. How about that? What's happening there? What's that like? That's where the bodhisattvas are. They're all sort of hanging there and they've got their minds on a heavenly boat so they can go with this flow. And they were all beings to like join this this light parade. They want everybody... Everybody's coming up and going down, coming up and going down. But most people are, like, there with it, rather than just having it coming up and going down. Bodhisattva's minds are just like that. I mean, not even like that. They're nothing in addition to that. They're just breakfast and lunch. Breakfast and lunch. How would the clothing install it?

[49:49]

How about the problem in the stomach? Yes. How about it? Yeah, I practiced a lot of what you talked about, renunciation, throughout the past two weeks. I mean, I didn't really do it. It just happened to be that way that I reminded. I was reminded more often of that space where Petra is Petra. And I always thought I was more attached to my thoughts, but it's actually not so. I found it was really difficult for me to be with is when my senses are affected, that something seems to be on an even deeper level than my thinking is, that seems to be instinctual, that is very difficult to deal with, like when my stomach's gone, when I'm hungry. And I really, I don't think so much the thinking that I'm hungry, but the hungriness is grasping to the poop, or it can even be the smell of flowers, something.

[50:56]

So how about that? So we have some grumbling, some pain in the stomach. Do we have like a depressed blood sugar level? Okay. That in itself is not a problem. Right? What's the problem? To me, you laugh. What are you thinking? Okay. There's something about me that seems to be a problem. Oh, really? Well, tell me about it. Tell me what the problem with being hungry is. I don't know.

[51:59]

You don't know? Well, just let me tell you, for me, being hungry is not a problem. When I'm hungry, I either eat or don't. If I eat, then I'm not hungry anymore, and if I don't, I stay hungry. But anyway, some people I understand, you know, have starved to death in this world. But anyway, I haven't. However, when my blood sugar level drops, and I've observed other people's blood sugar level drop, and when there's a pain in my stomach, that is not the problem. The problem is the kind of and then what mind. Well, now what? Should I eat or not eat? What should I eat? Should I go on with this or not? This concern for me, vis-a-vis this information. If I hear somebody else's blood sugar level has dropped, I can also have the same problem.

[53:00]

Especially if this person is going to get on my case about this blood sugar level and make me go to a restaurant. Or even if they're not, anyway. Basically... you can have a problem with blood sugar level being too low. But the blood sugar level low itself is not a problem by itself. It is similar to the blood sugar level being any place else that it might be. It itself is not the problem of Buddhism. If the blood sugar level gets too low... I don't know what happens. Do people die? They can't. No, not from what you're talking about. For other reasons. If it gets too low, they can die. But it's not going to happen. Anyway, I don't know. Low blood sugar level does not seem to be... It has not been a problem. It's the thoughts about and the attachments around low blood sugar level. That has been a big problem.

[54:01]

The things people do around that. And that's where the renunciation comes in, around that. Renunciation is to let the blood sugar level be the way it is, and then you will eat if there's food, and you won't if there's not. Like you might do even if you didn't practice renunciation. It's just that if you... practice renunciation around that low blood sugar level, you could wake up in the process of eating. You could wake up. In other words, the eating, when the food touches you, you could wake up. Because it would be Buddha Dharma coming to you then. Just like now, in some sense, maybe when I'm talking, you may have a kind of psychic low blood sugar level right now. In terms of like, you know, what I'm saying to you may be like starving you.

[55:05]

Psychically. But if you can just let it be that and renounce messing around with this blood sugar, this psychic blood sugar level, you could wake up. This touch, you know, this touch that this kid is talking about, it can be a tactile touch, auditory touch, olfactory, taste, gustatory, visual, or mental touch. We talked also about having no companion, not being a companion of your mind.

[56:12]

When you're hungry, no companion to that hunger. Just lonesome hunger. Not you and hunger. It's just being wide open hunger. That's it. That's the world of renunciation. That's renouncing worldly affairs. That's called losing something. Do you understand? Also, if you eat and then your blood sugar goes up, then blood sugar level being raised to normal levels or, I don't know, this thing is high blood sugar level.

[57:25]

Is there a high blood sugar level? Anyway, then leaving that alone is called losing something. What do you lose then? What did you lose? What? What? Oh yeah, you lost that too, right? And what else did you lose? Huh? You lose attachment. Yeah, you lose attachment. You lost hunger. But usually we don't mind losing hunger. What we mind losing is the accompaniment of hunger. And the accompaniment of hunger is the same thing that accompanies not hunger. Satiation is accompanied by pretty much the same thing that hunger is accompanied by, which is what?

[58:27]

Yourself. Yeah, yourself. There's your hunger and there's yourself. In Zen, there's just eating. There's not yourself eating. It's not like when you're hungry, then you eat. It's nola. It's sleepy, sleep. Hungry, eat. There's renunciation there. Something, you lost something. If you're hungry, you've lost something. If you're eating, you've lost something. When you're done eating, you've lost something. You always have lost something. If you wake up to it. If you wake up to it. If you wake up to it. Wake up to it.

[59:29]

Wake up to it. What's it? Then when you lose it, you always lose something. But you only do it when you wake up. You only lose something when you wake up? No, you only wake up when you lose something. It's not the other way around, I don't think. although I really don't want to get attached to this, but it isn't that you lose it when you wake up. It's that when you lose it, you wake up. It's not that when you wake up, you lose it. When you lose it, you wake up, and when you wake up, then something happens. And then the awakening uses something happening, not the losing. The losing causes us to enter the awakening.

[60:32]

You lose it, then you wake up. And when you wake up, then you, you know, serve breakfast, or whatever. You maintain the Buddha Dharma. But before that, you have to lose something. Yes? Is it that you lose something, or is it that it is lost? Either way you want to put it. Lose something, something's lost, renunciation, something's renounced, abandonment, something's abandoned, you abandoned. It's hard to say what happens once it's gone. Whenever you say, put you before the sentence, there's always an unspoken, you do it, something, versus didn't. You say it is unspoken. You mean I didn't say it. I hear it. Right. I didn't say it, but you hear it. So it is spoken. I didn't say it, so then you say it. It is spoken. However, if I... But again, you want kind of like, this is one of your main questions.

[61:42]

You ask this question over and over again. Buddha says, Buddha said, I, when he was born, he said, I am the world's honored one. And when he woke up later, 29 years later, he said, I and all beings in the great earth attain the way. But he wasn't talking about himself when he said, I. But when you're awake, you get to say, I. And when other people hear you say, I, they think you mean yourself. But you don't. And the one who's talking, that I that's talking, is the I that's not you. When I say, I, and I'm speaking as a Buddha, then that I is not me. However, it is you. But when you say it's not you and it's me.

[62:48]

But I have to keep saying I. And if I don't, you'll hear it. And if I do, you'll hear it. You'll hear it all the time. until you renounce everything and then you'll forget or then you'll forget or you'll be forgotten and this forgotten self you know the forgotten self this is what you call a bodhisattva that has a mind which has no abode. Bodhisattva who has a mind that has no abode means bodhisattvas are walking around, you know, touching people, saying good morning, and their mind has no address, no abode, and yet they can conduct their life.

[63:58]

They're walking around, and this is a forgotten self walking around. And because it's a forgotten self, this person who's got a forgotten self, who's carrying around a self that they can't remember, therefore they can't carry it, who's walking around and the self's getting delivered to them step by step, you know? That's why, you know, these people who, like my wife is one of these people that gets all these catalogs, you know? These people who use these, who order stuff. It's very enlightened because it's just like, that's the way bodhisattva is. You keep getting yourself in the mail all the time. You like, you like get these catalogs, you know, and you look stuff and you find yourself and you look, oh yeah, wow. And you order it and then you go and you get, they deliver yourself to you.

[65:02]

So you like go down to the office and there's a self. But of course, before you get there, there isn't one. You walk in the door, no self's coming in the door, and then suddenly, my package, me, a package for me. Then there's you. You become, you manifest, you know, because there's a package for you. Or you're walking along, you know, you don't even remember who you are, and somebody runs up to you and says, there's a package in the office for you. Me? For me? There's a you. And the person who tells you, they're potentially awakened by meeting somebody who they just have given a self to. Do you have some catalogs? Yeah, I'm not enlightened. I don't like those catalogs. With all that Unabomber stuff going on, I don't think I want a package.

[66:16]

If you forgot yourself, you wouldn't be there to say you don't want a package. And then when you found out that a package was there for you, you would wake up. However, you might, as soon as you woke up, you might say, I don't want the package. But you'd be very happy to find yourself. It's not the package that's important. It's not the package, it's the self that you get when the package is delivered. Are you saying it's the acknowledgement? The acknowledgement? Am I saying what's the acknowledgement? The self. I mean, when the package is being delivered, someone says to you, there's a package for you, there's a sense of acknowledgement that you exist because there's a package for you. No, it's not really acknowledgement. It would be acknowledgement if you came into the office and then somebody said, Jacqueline, you're alive, we love you. Then it would be acknowledgement of the self which you brought into the office. I'm talking about you come into the office, you forgot about Jacqueline, and then you see grace, and seeing grace is like this package which makes you remember Jacqueline.

[67:25]

It isn't affirmation of Jacqueline. It is like the birth of Jacqueline. You are born in meeting Grace. You aren't there. You forgot yourself. When you meet Grace, you're there. She's before you. That's why you see Grace and you want her to be enlightened before you. Because you forgot yourself. When you're enlightened, you don't even see yourself. You just... And you want everybody else to be awake. But that's yourself. That's who you really are. Packages give a self and a both. Packages could give a self and a both. Well, they can, but then immediately after that you can get into the abode of the self which you're given. and shift back the other way of, oh, I got this self, and then hold it, and then walk out of the office holding yourself, rather than forgetting it again as soon as you found it, walking out the door and forgetting again, and then having the trees outside, oh my God, there's me. It's not the trees or me, it's like, oh, there's a tree, oh, there's me.

[68:27]

The trees wake you up. The trees confirm you. They don't acknowledge you, they confirm you. You're born in the coming of the trees. Is that like being touched by what's around you? No. When you're talking about your senses or your mind, the touch... It's not being touched, no, it's not... Being touched by what's around you is, I'm touched. Then I'm here getting touched. What I'm talking about is the forgotten person is there, something happens and you're realized, you become realized by what's around you, not touched. That's the difference.

[69:31]

That's the difference. So we have to like forget ourselves in this process. And then everything that happens will confirm us. Or it's intended to say everything that happens will wake us up. Or everything that happens will verify us. When the self's forgotten, then everything that happens verifies the forgotten self. So like Andy just raised his hand, did that verify you? Did it verify Andy?

[70:37]

I have a question, which is, to my understanding that in order to carry out this practice, it's useful to practice giving. And I'd like to ask, what's the difference between this fundamental practice of giving and the fundamental practice of bodhisattva? What's the difference between the practice of giving and the practice of bodhisattva? What's the difference? What's the difference between? Listen. The practice of giving. Did you hear that? Now listen. The practice of bodhisattva. Did you hear the difference? Did you hear the difference? Listen. The practice of giving. The practice of a bodhisattva.

[71:48]

Hear the difference? That's the difference. Philosophically, of course, they're identical. Bodhisattva practice is giving. Giving is bodhisattva practice. That's it. But the difference is That's the only difference. There's no other difference otherwise. Is there? Oh. Case 53 of the Book of Serenity. Not there yet. Ten cases away. Don't you know that in all of China, not to mention America, there are no teachers of Zen Well, what about all these monasteries where there's these gangs of monks and there's these people getting educated and guided on the way?

[72:54]

I didn't say there's no Zen. I said there's no teachers of Zen. See the difference between no teachers of Zen and Zen? What's the difference between teachers of Zen and Zen? When you have Zen, do you have Zen teachers? No. Do you have all the students getting educated and guided and massaged and scared? Do you have the students going in and going, whoa, whoa, whoa? Do you have the teachers going, do you have that happening? Yeah. Are there any teachers? No. Is there Zen? I don't know. We didn't say there was Zen either. We just didn't say there wasn't Zen. But there aren't any teachers. How about bodhisattva practice and giving and all that? Is there any difference? Well, yeah. What's the difference?

[73:56]

Can you pull the teachers out of the Zen situation? No. Can you put them in? No. Can you have the Zen situation and the teachers? No. Is there bodhisattva practice? Well, I didn't say there wasn't. So, but if you say, is there, you know, is there like bodhisattva practice and giving? Is there a difference? Well, I'm not saying there isn't, but did you hear the difference? In this situation, there's something lost, if he follows what I'm saying. If you follow what I'm saying, something's lost. Okay? What's lost? Self. Yeah, what kind of inner self in what way? Self that gives or doesn't give. Self that gives or doesn't give. What else? What else? Well, self that can tell the difference between giving and bodhisattva practice.

[74:59]

Or the self of giving and the self of bodhisattva practice in the two different selves. Or you could have the self that says that the body self, the practice and the giving are the same and they're not any different. That's the self that, you know, that takes them both and puts them in the same package. And there's a self that makes them one and the other and separates them. There's a self which can tell the difference between the two. Well, there's also like forgetting all that and not knowing what you're talking about. And yet at the same time, I can talk to you and say, well, did you hear the difference? Now, if you really want to save all beings, my friend Andy, you're going to have to give up all this stuff. You're going to have to stop and I'm going to have to stop worrying about remembering how to tell who is doing the practice around here and who is not. I'm going to have to give up being able to tell the good guys from the bad guys, the bodhisattvas from the not bodhisattvas.

[76:03]

It's not that There aren't good guys and bad guys. I'm not saying that. It isn't that there aren't girls and boys. You have to give up knowing which are which. Yes? Is inquiry possible without a self? Is inquiry possible without a self? Is inquiry possible with a self? Yes. Yes. Now, when there's not a self, is there inquiry? Yes. No. If there's not a self, there isn't anything. The self is what makes inquiry. Is inquiry different from non-inquiry? If inquiry is different from not-inquiry, then you can't have it if there's no self.

[77:11]

Because self is the only way you can make inquiry different from not-inquiry. Because you have to have this little package called inquiry, which is not the same as the package called not-inquiry. But if you have a self, then you can have inquiry. So then most beings are in a state of self and not-self? Yes. All beings are in a state of self and not-self. Fluctuating. Simultaneous. Simultaneous. Simultaneous. In one case, the self, you got the self and then you live your life. The other case is there's living your life and then there's the self. Those two worlds I'd love to. If you only have the world where there's the world and then there's you, what about the world where there's you and then there's the world?

[78:22]

Are you separated from those beings? You can't, because all those beings are what's coming forth and then there's you. So all the beings that are going around being themselves, doing things, are what make you. So you're inseparable. from all these diluted beings. However, the forgotten self can practice inquiry, can inquire. The forgotten self can do anything. That's the great advantage of having forgotten yourself, is you have much more flexibility. It's a big relief. If you have forgotten self, you can be a macho dude.

[79:31]

I can be a Judas I can be you know I can be very flexible and receptive and down to earth not so abstract Not so intellectual. And those of you who are not usually so intellectual can be really intellectual. Suddenly, there you are. Because you forgot who you were. And some great intellectual event emerges and then you are born of that. I mean, you are nothing other than that. This is called, in some neighborhoods, love. And it's, you know, it's pretty hot stuff.

[80:46]

But what will happen to us, if you think about it, you'd be in trouble. That's why you don't want to open to this. But if you forget yourself, You can deal with it. I mean, you can... You can be confirmed by it as a mirror question. So... You know... Have we... Have we practiced renunciation? Are we learning how to practice renunciation? Are we learning how to practice uprightness? Do you want to learn how to practice uprightness?

[81:57]

Do you want to learn how to practice renunciation? Is there anybody who doesn't want to? Is there anybody who would be afraid, not to say you don't want to, but is there anybody who, if they didn't want to, would be afraid to say they did not want to? Nobody would be afraid to say that if they didn't want to? Yeah, I'd be afraid to say that. You'd be afraid to say it because you'd feel like you'd get demoted in this class? Something like that. Not that I necessarily would, but I would be afraid that I would. Well, how about, would you be... Could you admit that you're not sure if you want to? Yes? You're not sure if you want to? Well, I know there's a lot of things I can't renounce yet.

[82:58]

Renounce? Like what? Like studying English. No, just kidding. You can't renounce thinking? What do you mean you can't renounce thinking? Do you mean you can't stop thinking? I can't stop thinking. But renouncing thinking does not mean to stop thinking. Renouncing thinking means... What does renouncing thinking mean, ladies and gentlemen? Yes, it means giving up your attachment to thinking. What's another way of saying that? What? It's sitting upright. It means thoroughly, wholeheartedly thinking. It means all you people are thinking all day long. as far as i know as far as i can tell you're like me you're thinking all day long renunciation is to think wholeheartedly that's renunciation i agree you have to go are you getting ready to go no okay my back's getting so hurting okay and and that's hard too to think wholeheartedly that means you have to like be totally present

[84:26]

and give yourself to each thought completely. Be totally engaged in your thinking. That's renunciation, because if you do that, you're going to lose something. What are you going to lose if you totally engage yourself in your thinking? What are you going to lose? You're going to lose yourself. And right when you're just about ready to completely plunge into your thinking, you're going to notice, wait a minute, if I do that, something's going to get lost here, and I think it's going to be me. And then what? and then what? Okay? And then you're going to take yourself and then what? And throw them into it. And when you get there, it's very likely that a little voice will say, and now what? In other words, and now what's going to happen to me now that I've done this? When you enter this emptiness that happens when you give yourself completely to your thinking, that's called not thinking. And then you say, well, now what?

[85:29]

And again, that's okay if you're completely engaged in, and now what? But if you don't, you're going to fly back out of that and be just in terror. Half-hearted terror. Terror means you're here and it's over there rather than you completely throw yourself into it. Practicing renunciation, if I ask you if you're willing to practice renunciation, I ask you, are you willing to think the thoughts that you're thinking and to feel the feelings you're feeling all day long completely? Are you willing to try to learn to do that? And you may say, I don't know. You may say, I'm not sure. You certainly might say, that would be difficult. It would be difficult because you'd have to give up. In the process, you wouldn't give up yourself and do it. You'd throw yourself into it. And as you actually approach wholehearted engagement in what you're doing, you'll notice that you're going to lose yourself. And actually, it might be good to not do this when you're operating heavy equipment.

[86:35]

Not until you're driving home. Wait until you get home before you try to practice this. Once you get the hang of it, you can actually come back and drive cars and stuff again, but don't try to make your first leap into total wholehearted thinking maybe when you're driving, you know. When you're operating large mechanical equipment. It's okay, actually, I think, to do it when you're cutting with a very sharp knife. That's okay. Because the only person you'll hurt probably will be yourself. And you'll probably be awakened if you cut your finger off. So if you see that you're going to lose yourself... And we're going to lose the whole heart, isn't it? You're going to forget yourself, actually, but it feels like you're going to lose it. It feels like you're going to lose it, and you don't know when you're going to get it back, either. Because you also, the way you, the little device you'd have by which you could figure out when you're going to get it back, or remind yourself, he said I'd get it back.

[87:45]

All that's thrown in there, too. So you're going to lose it, and maybe never get it back. In other words, you're going to die. But if I see that I'm losing it, I'm still on track. Right. If you see that you're going to lose it, what? I'm getting scared, but I can see that I'm scared. Yeah, it's kind of a good sign that you start getting scared. I confess I'm scared. Yeah, exactly. Getting a little scared shows you're getting kind of in the neighborhood. You're getting warm when you start getting scared. When you start to notice, if I would take that next step, I think I would be not here anymore. And then just, at that time, just kind of be still. And then, if you can, just jump. And you'll be okay. But don't do it the first time when you're driving a car. So wait till you get home before you try this. Or do it between here and the parking lot. And then when you get back in the car, forget it for a while. And just go back being, you know, test yourself again, take it home.

[88:48]

Okay, so this is, you know, this is this case. If you, all week long, just be totally engaged in what you're thinking, okay? Thinking, right? Rising and vanishing all the time. You're thinking all the time, rising and vanishing. Be totally engaged in that. That's it. How is that? How is that? What is that? How is that? Check it out. This is very hard. And notice how that's like practicing. And you'll find that we can talk about this touch. We can talk about how to turn the Dharma wheel. You're so lucky you're still alive and you can do this practice. And this will be very helpful to everybody else if you do it.

[90:07]

So I beg you to do this. And I vow to join you in that practice. Sorry to keep you late. Do you understand now?

[90:44]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_82.64