The topic I suggested for this retreat is Grandmother Mind or Grandmother Heart and embodying or performing, did I say embodying the Buddha way? Performing the Buddha way? Enacting the Buddha way? All those things. So Grandmotherly Mind or Grandfatherly Mind I already talked a little bit about last night. On one level it's pretty simple. It's just this feeling of warmth and appreciation for somebody or something. A feeling of wanting to cooperate with something.

[01:01]

not to dominate it or crush it or get it under control, but a feeling of appreciation and wanting to nurture and benefit. All that's there pretty straightforwardly in what we think of as our grandmother mind or grandfather mind. And I heard this term, grandmother mind or grandmotherly kindness, I heard it from early on in Zen practice. Like one time I heard, I read, you know, that the sixth ancestor of Zen in China, Hui Nung, He wasn't even a priest. He wasn't a monk. He was a layperson, unordained, uninitiated.

[02:04]

But he became the successor of the fifth ancestor, sort of in a secret ceremony at midnight. And then the fifth ancestor said, you should leave here and go hide. because you will be hurt if people find out that you're my successor. And one way of understanding the fifth ancestor's warning was that the other monks would actually physically try to hurt him or emotionally try to hurt him because they'd be jealous that this newcomer, junior to many of them, had become the successor of the great teacher. And there's other ways that they might have harmed him, wanted, been jealous of him.

[03:10]

But another way to understand it is that he wasn't ready to teach. He was the successor, but that if he came out as a teacher, he was not yet, he was the successor, but he wasn't mature. He was only 24 years old. when he became the successor of the Fifth Ancestor. He became the Sixth Ancestor when he was 24 years old. So he ran away and after he left, I think the Fifth Ancestor said that he wasn't going to teach anymore because he had a successor. And people were wondering, well, who could his successor be? And they concluded that maybe it was this layman who had come into the temple and had been pounding rice for eight months. So they went off in pursuit of him.

[04:14]

The fifth ancestor gave him a robe and a bowl as a symbol and verification of his transmission. And the leader of the group was a former general, a former Chinese general. And he was chasing him and caught up on him because he was a big, strong guy. And the new sixth ancestor, I guess, wasn't in very good shape, aerobically. So he caught up, caught up, and when the sixth ancestry saw him, he put the robe and the bowl on a rock and kind of like hid in the bushes. And then the head monk, not the head monk, but the leader of this group of monks who were chasing him, came up and saw the robe and bowl and tried to pick it up and take it, but couldn't lift it. And then the new ancestor came out of his camouflage and said, don't think good, don't think bad.

[05:31]

What was your face before your parents were born? And the pursuing general understood deeply. experienced great joy and gratitude to the teaching of his young friend and successor to his teacher. And he said, you are my master. And he said, no, sixth ancestor is our master. The fifth ancestor is our master. And then he hid for I think 16 years. He went into hiding for 16 years. And then he came out at 40 and started teaching. In one collection where they're celebrating this interaction between this young successor and this other monk, the person says, he treated him

[06:44]

with utmost kindness and grandmotherly compassion to do whatever he could to help him, like a grandmother peeling lychee nuts for her grandchildren to make it easy for them to eat the fruit. I just felt that he could feel his just coming up with this beautiful statement to help the person who was trying to hurt him. So that's grandmother mind, of course. And I can, again, hear this term in various Zen stories, so-and-so had grandmother, showed grandmotherly kindness. Like when, also when Wang Bo, you know, hit Linji three times. And then she didn't see the kindness, and then he went to see another teacher, and the other teacher said, oh, my God, he was so kind to you.

[07:48]

He showed you such grandmotherly kindness. So this kind of grandmotherly kindness is very wonderful and easy to understand. And then I heard a story... Quite a while later I read a story, heard a story about one of the ancestors in the Soto Zen lineage that comes through Japan. So we have the founder in Soto Zen in Japan, Eihei Dogen Daisho. By the way, this verse we just chanted, this is Eihei Kosho's verse. So Dogen Zenji wrote, this is his own personal vow. or his own personal verses for arousing the vow. So he's, we call him the founder of the tradition of our lineage, our Soto Zen lineage in Japan.

[08:50]

And his first disciple and his main disciple, who he became a successor, is Kon Eijo. And then the next person in the lineage is Tetsu Kikai, And Tetsugikai also studied with Dogen. And he was a very devoted student of Dharma and student of Dogen's. And Dogen really loved him. And he was really a wholehearted monk, serving his teacher and serving the community. But then I read this story about Tetsugikai and the great master Dogen. And it really, it set me wondering, well, what kind of grandmotherly mind is Dogen concerned about?

[09:57]

It's not different from the one I was just talking about, but it's a kind of like... Well, you'll see, it's a kind of, maybe a special meaning within the meaning that Dogen was concerned about. So in 1253, in the springtime, Tetsugikai went to, well, Tetsugikai wrote this about what happened then. And Tetsugikai says, on the eighth day of the seventh month of the fifth year of the Kensho era, Master Dogen's disease recurred. I was very alarmed and went to see him. He said, come close to me.

[11:02]

I approached his right side and he said, I believe my current life is coming to an end with this sickness. In spite of everyone's care, I am not recovering. Don't be alarmed by this. Human life is limited. and we should not be overwhelmed by illness. Even though there are ten million things that I have not clarified concerning the Buddha Dharma, I still have correct faith. Excuse me, I still have the joy of not forming mistaken views, and the joy of having genuinely maintained correct faith in the true Dharma.

[12:09]

Although I am dying, I am filled with joy in correct faith in the true Dharma. The essentials of all this are not any different from what I have spoken of every day. This monastery is an excellent place. We may be attached to it, but we should live in accord with temporal and worldly conditions. The Buddhadharma, or in the Buddhadharma, any place is an excellent place for practice. Every place is an excellent place for practice in Buddhadharma. When the nation is peaceful, the monastery supporters live in peace. When the supporters are peaceful, the monastery will certainly be at ease. You have lived here for many years, and you have become a monastery leader.

[13:17]

After I die, stay in the monastery, cooperate with the monks and laity, and protect the Buddha Dharma I have taught. If you go traveling, always return to this monastery. If you wish, you may stay in the hermitage. Shedding tears, I wept and said in gratitude, I will not neglect in any way your instructions for both the monastery and myself. I will never disobey your wishes." Then Dogen, shedding tears and holding his palms together, said, I am deeply satisfied. You are a wonderful disciple.

[14:22]

For many years I have noticed that you are familiar with worldly matters and that within the Buddha Dharma you have a strong bodhi mind. Everyone knows your deep intention. But you have not yet fully cultivated a grandmotherly heart. As you grow older, I'm sure you will develop it. I just want to stop here and say, when I read that, I thought, what? This guy seems like he has developed grandmotherly mind. Such a wonderful student, so kind to this teacher and the other monks. Why does he say he hasn't developed grandmotherly mind? What's wrong? What's he missing? It didn't make sense to me.

[15:28]

And also I thought, if he hasn't, then I must not have. Going on with the story, Tetsugikai says, restraining my tears, I thanked him. At that time, the head monk Ejo was also present and heard this conversation. This is kind of like a historical document we want people to know that Ajo, Dogen's first successor, actually witnessed this conversation. I have not forgotten the admonitions that I did not have a grandmotherly heart. However, I don't know why Dogen said this. Some years earlier, when I returned to Eheji Monastery and gone to see my teacher, he had given me the same admonishment during a private discussion.

[16:43]

So this was the second time I was told this. On the 23rd day of the seventh month of that year, before I went to visit my hometown, Dogen told me, you should return quickly from this trip. There are many things I have to tell you. On the 28th day of the same month, I returned to the monastery. Five days later, and paid my respects to my teacher. He said, While you were gone, I thought I was going to die, but I am still alive. I have received several requests from the Lord at the governor's office in Rokuhara-mitsu in Kyoto to come to the capital for medical treatment.

[17:52]

At this point, I have many last instructions, but I am planning to leave for Kyoto on the fifth day of the eighth month. Although you would be very well suited to accompany me on this trip, there is no one else who can attend to all the affairs of the monastery as well as you. I want you to stay, therefore, and take care of the administration." Sincerely, Care for the Monastery Affairs This time I am certain my life will be over. Even if my death is slow in coming, I will stay in Kyoto this year. You should consult with others, even though you're the leader, in all matters, and do not make decisions on your own.

[19:02]

Cooperative power. Since I am very busy now, I cannot tell you the details. perhaps there may be many things I will tell you later from Kyoto. If I live and return from Kyoto, next time I meet, I will certainly teach you the secret procedures for Dharma transmission. However, when someone starts these procedures, small-minded people become jealous sometimes, so you should not tell other people about this. I know that you have an outstanding spirit for both mundane and super-mundane worlds. However, you still lack grandmotherly heart." Third time he told him. Dogen had wanted to return quickly from his trip so that he could tell me many things.

[20:14]

I am not recording further details here. Separated by a sliding door, the senior nun, Egi, witnessed this conversation. On the third day of the eighth month, Dogen gave me a woodblock print of the eight prohibitory precepts for the bodhisattvas. On the sixth day of the month, Bidding farewell to Dogen at an inn in Wapimoto, I respectfully asked, I deeply wish I could accompany you on this trip, but I will return to the monastery according to your instructions. If your return is delayed, I would like to go to Kyoto to see you, do I have your permission?"

[21:19]

He said, of course you do. So you don't need to ask any further about it. I am having you stay behind only in consideration of the monastery. I want you to attentively manage the affairs of the monastery. Because you are a native of this area and because you are a disciple of the late Master Acon, many people in this province know your trustworthiness. I am asking you to stay because you are familiar with the matters both inside and outside of the monastery." I accepted this respectfully. It was the last time I saw Dogen, and it was his final instruction to me. Taking it to heart, I have never forgotten it."

[22:22]

So when I read this, and even now when I read it again and again, I'm always deeply moved by the intimacy of their relationship. I feel joy in hearing about their relationship. And when I first read this story, I really was, like I said, I couldn't understand what the problem was in this wonderful intimate relationship. What was the teacher pointing to I had a similar experience in 1971.

[23:41]

I was the director of the city center of San Francisco's Ed Center. And I was in charge of the rooms, so I could assign myself a room right next to Suzuki Roshi. So whenever he went to his room, he had to walk by my room. So I was right near him if he wanted me to perform any service. And so that was very nice for me to be so close to him. And in the summer of 1970, I started doing that. And then in the summer of 1971, he was going to go to Tassajara for most of the summer. And I told him I would like to accompany him. I did not know that he had cancer.

[24:42]

He didn't tell us. I did not know this would be the last summer that he would spend at Tassajara or in this world. But still, I said, I would like to go with you. And he said, hmm, okay. But then I said... but maybe I shouldn't because none of the other students here in the city center can go and they might be jealous if I got to go and give up my administrative responsibilities." And he said, oh yeah, well maybe something will be possible. But he did go to Tassajara and he practiced very wholeheartedly and gave himself completely to the students And then at the end of the summer when he came back from Tassajara, he was very sick and yellow. And we thought maybe he had hepatitis, but it was liver cancer.

[25:47]

So I missed his last summer of teaching. However, when he came back to San Francisco, I got to be with him. all the way. And so I'm glad I didn't kind of selfishly go to Tassajara to be with him. I just gave him up and then he came back. And I got to die with him. But he didn't tell me I lacked grandmotherly heart. But I did. So what is this grandmotherly heart that this wonderful disciple was lacking? He wasn't lacking kindness.

[26:51]

Then after Dogen died, during the 18 months after Dogen died, he studied with Dogen's successor, Eijo. And during that study, he came to understand what it was that Dogen was telling him. And I think what Dogen was telling him was that The Buddha way is the ritual of Buddha way. The Buddha way is making everything you do a ritual of the Buddha way. Making everything you do a ritual of the Buddha way is the Buddha way, and there's no other Buddha way. And Tetsu Kikai heard Dogen say that and didn't believe it.

[28:06]

And because he didn't believe it, he didn't have grandmotherly heart. The grandmotherly heart isn't just caring for people, although it totally includes that. It's not just that. It's making every action of body, speech, and mind an expression of the Buddha. And understanding that there's no other way to know Buddha than to give yourself in every action of body, speech, and mind to Buddha. To make everything you do a gift to Buddha. To make everything you do worshiping Buddha. To make everything you do praising Buddha.

[29:22]

And not only that, but to know that there's no other way to know Buddha other than your actions being actions given to the Buddha Dharma. And Tetsugikai, this great ancestor, didn't believe it. He thought that there could be something other that would be the Buddha way other than these enactments. There's some sense of, I could know Buddha, or I could be enlightened, aside from the enactment of the enlightenment in practice. Practice is the only way, according to this grandmother mind, it's the only way to know Buddha is as practice.

[30:34]

It isn't through practice. It isn't like you do practice and then you know Buddha. Like you break through and know Buddha. It's that you break through, it's that you do practice and you break through thinking that Buddha is something other than what you're doing. But we do, we think, Buddha must be something other than what I'm doing. That doesn't sound terribly arrogant, even though your teacher, Dogen, would tell you that and you arrogantly don't believe it. It seems even humble that the Buddha way must be something more than what I'm doing. Well, it might be more than what you're doing, but when you do it as practice, then it's nothing more than what you're doing. It's nothing more than practice. The Buddha way is nothing more than knowing the Buddha way.

[31:35]

It's not like you know the Buddha way and then there's another Buddha way. The Buddha way is knowing the Buddha way. It's not like there's embodying the Buddha way and then another Buddha way, or enacting the Buddha way and another Buddha way, the Buddha way is nothing other than enacting it. And enacting it is nothing other than it. But if your actions aren't the enactment of the Buddha way, then there is another Buddha way. It's not another Buddha way. What you're doing is not the Buddha way if you're not giving your life to enacting it, to practicing it. then you're doing what's called worldly affairs. Even if you're in a zendo, sitting zazen, and you think that your zazen is your zazen, that you're doing by yourself, and you're not giving your zazen to the buddhas, you're distracting yourself from the buddha way. And again, we have trouble understanding this in 21st century United States of America.

[32:51]

We have trouble understanding this in any place on the planet. People have trouble understanding it. It's very subtle. It's very subtle. And this great teacher, this great ancestor, he had trouble understanding it. So you're not like retarded that you don't get this. I'm not retarded that this is hard for me to get. Very subtle. Part of our culture, not just American, but Western culture, and also part of some modern Japanese scholarship, is a distinction between practice and ritual, a distinction between practical things and ritual. But in Dolvian, there's no distinction between practice and ritual. If you make every action of mind, speech, and body a ritual enactment of the Buddha way, then the practice of the Buddha way is the same.

[34:10]

And Tetsugikai did not get this, but then in the In 18 months after Dogen's death, his mind really turned and he understood. And as a result, He became Mr. Practice in Action after that. Just taught acting the practice. Almost no study. Just everything was about in acting, in acting, acting. And this enactment, which is the practice, is how we realize that we're living in the truth.

[35:39]

And without this practice, although we are living in the truth, we don't realize it. And not realizing it is the same as not practicing it. and therefore it doesn't seem to manifest in our life. But when we do practice it, it is realized, and it does manifest, and the way it manifests is as our actions. Which is already the way it's manifesting, but unless we make and give our actions to the realization we miss it. And I think there's some other points to raise, but that probably was enough to get started, I would guess.

[36:53]

Is that right? And you might have some some response, which I invite you to express. Feedback. And, you know, feedback, I looked up in the dictionary a while ago. Probably not all of you have looked it up in the dictionary recently. Feedback has two meanings. The first meaning in the dictionary I looked in was that part of the output of a process that becomes an input to the process. So we're in a process here together, and this process has an output, and the feedback is the part of the output that is fed back into the process. And the second meaning of feedback, which I think is more commonly understood, is a critical or evaluative comment

[38:00]

on some work of art or some behavior. So both of those meetings of feedback I invite. Is that good? Yes. So as you were leading into this part of the afternoon, I'm sitting there going, I'm sitting there going, should I put the cushion out now or not? And so I just said, okay, I'll do it. You know, it seems right. I'll trust that. That's okay, what you went through there.

[39:08]

Want some feedback? Sure. And along with that would be, it seems like it might be good to do that, you thought, but whether it is or not, I'm going to offer it to the Buddha Dharma. I'm going to make this offering right now. I'm going to move this cushion and make it a gift. This action is going to be a gift to Buddha. Yes, that was there too. Thank you for showing me that. And would you move it about a foot closer, please? Sure. Thank you. So he is, you know, you can see he's a wholehearted student of Dharma, wanting to help me here with you. And the grandmotherly mind part is not just his kindness to us, but that he understands that he must make what he does the Buddha way.

[40:25]

And there's no other Buddha way than making what we do. There's not another Buddha way. When you were talking about Dogen's teaching of no separation between ritual and practice, I remembered that I had read that Dogen wrote very detailed instructions to his monks on how to behave, how to make their everyday actions ritual, everything from how to go to the bathroom to how to chop vegetables. And in that way, everything they would do became ritualized and a practice.

[41:34]

And sometimes it's hard to see. the grandmotherly kindness of the teacher. And I was reminded of a story that Dido Roshi would tell about when his son was very little and he got a brain tumor, and the doctors said that there was a 90% possibility that his son would die during surgery. And Daido Roshi, of course, was very upset. And he went for Dokusan with his teacher, Maezumi Roshi, and he was crying and upset. You know, I'm so scared that my son is going to die. What can I do? What can I do? And he was crying. And Maezumi Roshi turned on him and yelled at him and threw him out of the Dokusan room. And Dido said, well, at the time, I was just destroyed that my teacher had forsaken me, but that it was his grandmotherly kindness that made me, that empowered me

[42:55]

and made me stop feeling sorry for myself. And I said, I'm not going to let my son die. I'm going to be with him. I'm going to be here for this. And indeed, his son lived and is now an adult. But at the time, he thought that grandmotherly kindness would be for Maezumi Roshi to say, oh, poor Daito, poor baby. But that was not it. He said that what he did, that was the grandmotherly kindness. Not always easy to see. Not always easy to see. And if we want to see it, we have to practice it. It's there all the time. Grandmotherly kindness is always coming to us in both the form of kindness, which helps us wake up, but also kindness in the form of pointing up to us how to practice to wake up.

[44:10]

Both. If we accept the practice and give ourselves to the practice, we will see it. And if we practice when we're going to the bathroom or chopping vegetables... Yes. ...that's the embodiment of the Buddha Dharma. Yes. And Dogen gave detailed instructions about how to go to the bathroom. However, if you look at the instructions, they don't apply to our present-day bathrooms. So a modern Zen teacher could make a new set of instructions for how to do that. But I would think now, is it that we're supposed to follow the instructions that Dogen gave? That would seem probably not quite right.

[45:11]

I was supposed to make new instructions. That would be okay. But without making any instructions, What would be the point? The point would be that how you use the toilet, as you do it and watch yourself do it, you watch this action as expressing the Buddha mudra, the Buddha seal. You don't arrogantly say, what I'm doing is the Buddha action. That's not the way to do it. It's rather, what I'm doing I give to Buddha's action. I offer to Buddha's action. And that may cause you to evolve some repetitive ritual about the way you use the bathroom. Like you may repeatedly close the door carefully or open it carefully.

[46:16]

You may repeatedly do certain things, but they don't have to be repetitive. They have to be giving an homage to Buddha. They must be, if you wish to realize it. And also that you notice any sense of dualism between what you're doing and the Buddha way. And if you see some dualism, then that's a worldly affair. which you confess and repent before the Buddhas. But we can actually have some way of doing these daily tasks and some forms of doing them. We can use those, and we can agree together what ones we're going to use. We do that to some extent. when to join our palms, when to bow, when to open the door, how long to sit.

[47:17]

We can make some agreement together about these things and use these things. But then when using them, we should remember these forms, these ceremonies, these actions are made as the enactment of the Buddha way. In a way, Dogen was tricking his monks into being mindful during their everyday activities. But what you're suggesting goes even beyond that to not only being mindful but recognizing it as a giving. So Tetsugikai, I'm sure, was very mindful. Dogen wasn't criticizing his mindfulness. He was the leader of the monastery.

[48:18]

Eijo was a wonderful teacher already, but Gikkai was the one who really was mindful of everything in the monastery. He was mindful. He was taking care of things. He was attentive wholeheartedly. There was some dualism in his mind. What he was doing at least some of the time, and the Buddha way were separate. So Dogen tricks his monks, or you could say gives them a place where they can be tested, shows them a form, and he watches them do the form, and then he sees, oh, you think there's something other than what you're doing as the Buddha way. Of course, some of the other monks also lack the grandmother mind, but this is his supremely mindful student who's missing the essential point, but he has to offer him a lot so he can put his energy into it, and then Dogen can see, oh, there's a little bit of... there's a little bit of discrepancy there.

[49:20]

Like Dogen says, the way, the Buddha way is perfect, it's complete, and it's all-pervading. But if there's a slightest discrepancy, it's as big as if there's a huge discrepancy. So he gives these forms and these practices of sitting and so on, and you sit wholeheartedly, you give yourself completely to sitting really well, and when you're sitting really well, then the teacher can see, oh, you're trying to get something out of this. You're trying to get enlightened out of this sitting. You think there's going to be some other thing besides this sitting. I can tell there's a little bit of reaching for something here. You don't really believe that the sitting you're doing is... You're not making the sitting you're doing to put away. I can see that. But it's hard to see it unless somebody wholeheartedly gives themselves to some form that you know.

[50:23]

Like Sri Yukteswararishi said, when I see you at a party, You're all doing different things. I don't know what you're doing, but when you sit zazen, you all look different. When you all do the same thing, and the same thing that I know, then I see each one of you does it differently. So he puts out a form there. It could be some other form, but put out a form that he's familiar with, and then she watches you, and then she can see, oh, you think there's some other Buddha way other than what you're doing right now. And some of the other students are not wholehearted enough to reveal that discrepancy. But he was wholehearted enough, so it came right to that point. And he could see, yeah, I'm totally devoted to this teaching, and I don't really believe this fundamental point. It's amazing. But you have to be wholehearted to the teacher to find out that you don't agree. A little bit of tips. I do everything the teacher says to me to do.

[51:29]

I do it wholeheartedly. I'm the best at doing it, and I don't agree with him. So that's what's so wonderful about Tetsugikai. We don't know. Eijo maybe didn't have any problems, just immediately just understood. I don't know. But anyway, he's older than Dō did. I would like to say that I was thinking of what sort of question I might have for you. And one of my questions... Can you hear her? Just speak up a little bit, please. So my question, as I was sitting before Zanzen started, was, tell me what I need to hear.

[52:34]

And I thank you very much for that. And specifically... Thank you for your orders. So some of my other questions were how best to be a benefit to sentient beings, which you also addressed in your teaching this morning. And this is my first Zen retreat, so I've had other concerns about the rituals and, you know, wanting to do the right thing and all these other things. And your teaching helped me significantly this morning. So thank you. You're welcome. I enjoyed assisting you. Thanks for assisting me. Do you feel like you're assisting me? Yes. Do you want to assist me? Yes. Well, it's a pleasure to be in a room with you again.

[54:03]

Same here. Thank you. When I walk into a zendo... I would guess that people cannot hear you. When I walk into a zendo on a given morning... Joe, wait one second, please. Of course. If someone's talking to me and you can't hear them, if you raise your hand, I'll ask them to speak up. Hmm. Thank you. Want to try again? Sure. When I walk into a zendo on a given morning, I feel I'm practicing a ritual. And I feel that way as I get to my pillow and as I sit on it. And then during the course of a period of zazen, You know, mind wanders to various things, you know, including perhaps lunch.

[55:10]

I feel like, hmm, I don't think I'm practicing a ritual. I don't think I'm practicing the Buddha way here. You know, I bring myself back to more concentrated sitting. I think, well, maybe so. drifts off again. So I guess my question is... Could I just relate to what you said so far? Sure, please. I wanted to because... Well, maybe you could add your question to what you said so far and I won't lose what you already said. I think the problem probably comes back to how to be more wholehearted. in practice, or how to be more consistent in practicing the Buddha way? How to be more wholehearted. So he said something like, he sits and he feels like, I'm practicing a ritual, and then sometimes his mind, he's aware that his mind's wandering, and then he thinks, oh, I don't know if wandering mind is a ritual for an act in the Buddha way.

[56:27]

And then he says how to be more wholehearted. I'll go back over that. When we think that what we're doing is a ritual, that's fine. But what I'm trying to emphasize here is not just that you think what you're doing is a ritual, but that you give what you're doing as a ritual. You can also think that what you're doing is a ritual. But then I would say, give that thinking to the Buddha way. If you're giving that thinking of that being a ritual, you're giving that to the Buddha way is a ritual. You're making it a ritual. And you can think, this isn't a ritual, also, and give that thought to the Buddhists. And then thinking that's not a ritual, becomes what you give to make your thinking a ritual. If you have a wandering thought, even before you judge it as not a ritual, that wandering thought is what you're thinking.

[57:38]

Okay? Yes. When you have a wandering thought, you have a wandering thought. That's your thought at that time. That's your thinking at that time, a wandering thinking. What I'm suggesting to you, and I'm telling you, I think this is what Dogen is suggesting to you, and I think what all the bodhisattvas are suggesting to you, is that whatever thought you have, make it a gift to the Buddha. So if you have a wandering thought, don't wait till some later time when you have a non-wandering thought and miss this moment of enacting the Buddha way by giving your thought to the Buddha right at that time. Don't wait till later to be wholehearted, in other words. Be wholehearted now with this substandard thinking. this wandering, lazy, low-quality thinking.

[58:44]

Okay, yes, but I give it to the Buddha, not to get rid of it, but just because that's all I've got right now is a kind of like, I guess if I was grading myself, it would be low concentration level. I give it to the Buddhas. Now I have another one of those low concentration things. I give them to the Buddha. Now I have another slightly lower concentration, I give that to the Buddha. Now I have a slightly higher one, I give that to the Buddha. Every single thinking, every moment of mental action, I give to the Buddha, I give to the Buddha, I give to the Buddha, I give to the Buddhists, I give to the Buddhists, I give to the Buddhists. So even though I go through these changes, I'm always in relationship to the Buddhas, I'm always generous with them, and I'm always developing a wholehearted practice, and then I'm also starting to open to that.

[59:47]

They don't give to me only when I'm concentrated. They're giving to me all the time, so why don't I give to them? When I'm lazy and whatever, when I have an unskillful thought, Buddhas are giving to me. They don't wait till later to give to me, Why should I wait till later to give to them? Some of the things I might be giving them might not be very nice. They're not thinking that you're not very nice. They love you. They're practicing with you. They know that what you have is not very nice for you, but still they support you if you have a not nice thought, they're still supporting you. And you're supporting them. But if you don't make your not-very-nice thought a gift to them, then you miss that you're giving to them and that they're giving to you. You miss it because you don't make your not-very-nice thought practice.

[60:48]

And you think there's some other Buddha way where everybody has nice stuff and is concentrated and kind, that there's some other Buddha way beside your not-very-nice thinking. Right? then that grandmotherly mind's not operating. Grandmotherly mind is whatever you're thinking, you make that a ritual celebration of your intimate relationship with the Buddhas, of your giving to the Buddhas and the Buddhas giving to you. You make it a celebration of the fact that you and all beings are engaged in Buddha's work. Now, if you ever happen to be concentrated, that's nice. But you don't just sit there and be concentrated. You give it away. If you're concentrated and you don't make that a gift to the Buddhas, and you don't make that a gift to the Buddha way, again, you're involved in a concentrated worldly affair. It might be better if you're not going to be giving your thinking to Buddha to have an unconcentrated mind, because then you're not so concentrated on not being on the Buddha way.

[62:03]

So whether your mind is concentrated, tranquil, blissful, skillful, or something other than that, whatever you're doing in body, speech, and mind, moment after moment, make that an offering to Buddha. This is the vow of the bodhisattva. Not later. It's okay if you used to do it, that's okay. Not later though, now. In the future, yes, but now. Don't skip now. Now. Now. Whatever you are. You can also apologize to Buddha if you want to, or to the Buddha way. Sorry I don't have a concentrated mind to give to you, but this is my gift. And if you're consistent in giving your unconcentrated mind as offerings to the Buddhas, you'll notice that you've just become concentrated on giving. And although I think I'm not concentrated, that's just a delusion.

[63:11]

Generally speaking, the practices that we recommend for people generally, especially bodhisattva practices, are practices to realize what you're already doing. So we practice giving to realize what's already happening. We're already giving and receiving. So we practice it so we understand it. We're already living in the Dharma, so we practice it to realize it. We're already practicing the Bodhisattva precepts, so we practice them to realize it. We're already being patient, so we practice it to realize it, and so on. We are diligent beings, so we practice diligence to realize it. We are concentrated beings, but we don't get it. And when we practice concentration, we do get it. But we're already concentrated, and we're already wise. We fully possess the wisdom of the Buddhas already, but we are distracted from it. But when we give everything, everything, every state of mind to the Buddhas, the Buddha way is realized by that and by nothing else.

[64:20]

Thank you. We have to give what we are. You can also give what you aren't, but don't skip over giving what you are. Like I can give, I'm not you people, but I can give you, the Buddhas, with or without your permission. I donate you to the Buddhas. Hey Buddha, Here's these wonderful people. I give them to you. I give them to you. I give them to you. That's fine. I give you the palm trees. I give you the ocean. I give you the planets. I'm just totally giving you everything. But don't skip over me. In some ways, I'm the most important thing to give, because if I don't give you me, if I don't give you my thinking, then my thinking is going to run around thinking something like,

[65:29]

Buddha, Dharma, and me are something separate. Unless you make it a gift, it's going to cause trouble. But you're going to keep thinking, and you're going to keep acting. So you've got to do it yourself, otherwise you're going to slip off the road. Anyway, we do slip off the road, but then when we do, we can notice it. It isn't that other people are slipping off the road. I'm slipping off the road. So I can give you, but if you don't give you, you slipped off the road. And if you slipped off the road, I can give you when you're slipping off the road. But if I slip off the road and don't give me, then I won't notice that I slipped off the road. So I have to keep giving me. In other words, Me is body, speech and mind, actions. My three kinds of actions. To express the Buddha's seal in the three actions, moment after moment.

[66:36]

So Dogi says, when even for a moment you express the Buddha's seal, the Buddha mudra, the Buddha shape, the Buddha body, express the Buddha body with your thinking, your speaking and your physical action, your physical posture. When you do it even for a moment, the entire world becomes the Buddha's body. And the entire sky turns into enlightenment. And then at one moment, now another moment, and another. In addition to that, grandmother mind is to understand that there's no other Buddha way than this way. of you doing this, which is another way to say this is how to realize that you're living in the truth of everyone supporting you and you supporting everyone.

[67:37]

So, Roshi, you could say to give me to the Buddha way is to forget small self and remember big self. Mm-hmm. You could say that. And you can make that a gift while you say it. Yeah. Did you, by the way? Good. Is it what? as to if he gave what he just said to them. I got out of the way of it happening. Thank you for your teaching. You're welcome. With all due respect, I'm a little confused about the metaphor, grandmother. Yes. Because it seems to me an ideal that is already a separation. So I'm wondering if you could comment on that.

[68:44]

The grandmother. Yeah, so what is the separation that you sense? Well, these are all elder men, I take it. Dogen is elder. He's male. He's perhaps a grandfather. You know, he wasn't a grandfather, as far as we know. But he is not a grandmother, but he uses that metaphor as an ideal of giving that shows what has to be done. Actually, sometimes he said grandmother, but other times he just said elder. So one term is robashin, which means old woman or old lady mind. But he also uses roshin, which just means elder mind. And he was an elder. As a matter of fact, he's just about dead. But, yeah, so what should we do now? Thank you for clarifying.

[69:48]

I was stuck on perhaps a word. And it's not so much that it's the mind of the grandmother, but rather if we look at the actions of a grandmother, or the actions of a parent, they indicate, they show us kind of how we could learn to be in regard to the Buddhist teaching. A lot of Zen students are trying to remember the Buddhist teaching. They're trying to remember to be present. They're trying to remember to pay attention to the teachings. trying to be mindful of it, and they have a hard time. So we're talking about when you're a grandparent, you don't have to try to remember your grandchildren. It's just like naturally you just think of them. You don't have to try to remember to be generous. You don't have to try to remember to give your life for them.

[70:50]

It's kind of nice that it comes naturally. So we want to be students of the truth like that, too. Like we don't have to keep, oh yeah, what's the point? Oh yeah, the truth. What's the point? No, we get to the point where we train so that we're just always yearning to be close to Buddha. We're always, you know, it's just where we're at, that we're always thinking about the wonderful Dharma, and to train ourselves so that we think that, and also we don't think there's something else to do. There's nothing else that we want to do. Like when grandparents take care of a grandchild, there's nothing else to do. That's all you have to do. You're not worried about your job, you're not worried about your house, you're not worried about your life. You know all that's going to be gone soon. Right now you can love somebody. But some people who really do love Buddhadharma, they a little bit kind of get distracted from it.

[71:55]

And that kind of like reminds them, oh yeah, that's really what's important, not my money and my house and my career and my fame. Buddha Dharma is what's important. The truth's important. That's what really helps the world, not my stuff. Whereas the grandparent don't, they have stuff and they sometimes get into it, but when it comes time to look at the grandchild, there's no distraction. So we can be that way. like that with the teaching. When Dogen was speaking to the monk, is there not a separation? If he himself is not an elder, a parent, one who is giving, isn't that already a separation? That he has to observe an ideal of giving, whether it's in the Buddha? Isn't it separate from himself and what he is at that moment I think that's what Dogen was saying to the guy. Dogen loved him.

[72:57]

He loved Dogen. They really loved each other. They were so close. They really were so close. But this monk had a little bit of separation in his mind. There was something that his teacher was teaching him that he just didn't agree with. And he couldn't understand why Dogen was saying he didn't have grandmother mind. He said, he said this to me three times, but I didn't know what he was talking about. So in the mind of the monk there was still a little separation. And Dogen saw that separation. Dogen didn't believe the separation was really there. Dogen didn't think there was a separation between the activity of this wonderful disciple in the Buddha way. But the disciple thought he knew he was wholehearted, or he knew he was very, quite wholehearted, but he wasn't really wholehearted because he thought there was still a little bit of separation. So the teacher was trying to show him the separation. There really isn't any separation.

[73:59]

But he saw it, he thought he saw it, and the teacher was pointing, and you still think there's some separation. But right now you're talking to me and we're very close, and you still think there's some other Buddha way than your devotion to me and the monastery and your fellow monks. You still think there's some other Buddha way. That's your grandmother mind that hasn't been realized. You can just come up. Go ahead. So I too am working on the grandmother as a useful tool and trying to figure out what that means, the grandmother, also.

[75:07]

As a value, I think I understand a little bit more now after Debra's question. To me, it just sounded sentimental. Yeah. And it became sort of a story rather than a fresh... And somehow that related also to another thing I'm working on, which is the ritual that Zen seems heavy with to me. And I don't want to overthink it, but I find myself working it out, trying to figure it out. And I think there's a dead end there. With that there's definitely trying to figure anything out. All right, so So what I'm seeing though is I'm seeing ritual everywhere in my I can't see a ritual isn't in my life there's been so much ritual and I'm company I'm here and I'm asked to take on different rituals Apply rituals

[76:12]

And it's inviting me to ask what value they have. And the only thing I can come up with is that these rituals I'm conscious of. And with that conscious adoption of the ritual as the action, I'm getting a glimpse of myself as the doer. And it's sort of a mirror. So these right angles are reflective of where I sit. And that has an immediate value in it. So for once, the consciousness can, almost like a measuring post, wear on that. So it's... You know, I just keep getting, I get so tired of ritual going, it's just so tired. But then it's like sentimental grandmother. It just becomes a story.

[77:17]

It's an idea. But actually the ritual is sort of begging me to be fresh. Because there's actually a looseness in it if I just stop not wanting it to be rigid. Yeah, not wanting to be some other way than it is. That's right. Yeah, not wanting whatever to be other than it is. Yeah, so the ritual gives you a place to focus your graciousness, to see if you can be gracious with it. Yeah, and it's sort of, it's kind of an invitation to be really intimate with the doingness. Right. So it's like a real gentle apprehension of, like a nice tension. Yeah. Can I say something to Chad? Yeah. In the times we've had quiet interactions relative to the ritual, it's been nothing but the Buddha asking me to give to you, and in that, here's Buddha there giving back to me.

[78:20]

There's never been anything but that. Yeah. That's the sense I'm getting. Good. Thank you. Thank you. I guess I feel a little bit like a blind man right now, but, um... Like, my trouble with applying that to my everyday life, I guess, is that when I'm... I know when I'm physically giving something, I can hand it to whoever.

[79:23]

And that's easy. I can easily remind myself to do that motion with my arm, for example. But I... having trouble, I guess, grasping what it is to give something that isn't able to be put in my hand. And it's like, I guess it's kind of like people say, I'm not good at dancing, I can't dance. And people are like, just listen to the music, just dance. But I just don't know what to do. And I don't know, I hear the music of giving, but I don't know. what I'm supposed to be doing? Well, in the realm of giving, there isn't much supposed to. But there's a lot of allowing and appreciation. So if you hand me an apple and I receive it, maybe you can see then that giving was happening.

[80:32]

But also, if you allow me to be who I am, and you kind of give me to me, that's quite gracious of you. Even if I'm not very skillful, even if I'm kind of distracted and confused and frightened and so on, if you really are gracious with me, you really let me be who I am. And I might be able to see how gracious you are towards me. You're actually giving me a gift by really wholeheartedly letting me be who I am. And actually you do support me. Anyway, everybody supports me, but you do too. Whatever way I am, you support, actually. And when you feel gracious towards me, you start to open how you're supporting me. And as you start to open to how you're supporting me and being gracious with me, you start to see how I'm letting you be who you are, too.

[81:38]

And you start to see that graciousness is always in two directions, that we are always gracious with each other. So thinking along these lines trains our mind into, trains our mental action into the practice of giving, the ritual of giving, the ritual of giving to realize the actual giving, like the ritual of our meditation practice to realize the actual meditation practice. And you can give, for example, you can give your sitting, when you're sitting, you can give your sitting to the Buddhas. It's traditional in this tradition. that the best gift to give to Buddhas is your practice. If you're helping someone, if someone's suffering and you open your heart to them, that opening of your heart to them is a Dharma practice, is a practice of truth.

[82:43]

In truth, your heart is open to suffering beings. And when your heart opens to it and you see that, you're enacting the Buddha's teachings. And then, now that you're doing this practice called opening to the suffering of others, which is a Dharma practice, then give that Dharma practice to the Buddha. You can also give candles, flowers, incense, that's fine too. You can give prostrations. Prostrations is another practice you can give to Buddhas. But when you're sitting in meditation or being kind to someone, Those are also wonderful gifts. They're incalculably better than giving material gifts, actually. Giving Buddha an apple or a candle is wonderful, but giving your practice, giving your kindness, being kind and then giving the kindness to the Buddhas is a greater gift. You don't have to move to give a gift. You don't have to move anything to give a gift.

[83:47]

You just, whatever you're doing, you just feel it's a gift. You think it's a gift, you want it to be a gift. So right now I'm talking to you simultaneously. I feel like I'm giving you gifts. I feel like you're giving me gifts. And I'm also giving Buddha's gifts, the gift of our conversation. I'm making our conversation a gift to the Buddha's. and I've heard that me trying to help you, and me seeing how you're helping me, this is the kind of practice that Buddhists love to receive as gifts." That's the word from them. I see. Does that give you some feeling for it? Yeah. And then you spend the next 40 years or so going over this. And it sinks in more and more, and you feel more and more of the flow of it. But it's an unusual way of thinking of giving. I'm talking about a giving that you can do every single moment no matter what's happening. Like if somebody throws me a ball, I'm practicing giving in the form of receiving the ball, but receiving and giving are part of the same process.

[84:56]

Thank you. I received a teaching from you last night and I'd like to share it. My partner came home last night from a business trip, very, very sick with a flu and a cold, ministered to her. That's what I do. I got the Kleenex and the Yin Xiao and the vitamin C and all that was fine. And four o'clock in the morning, the coughing started. And I woke up and my mind went to I can't believe this is happening on the first night of the retreat.

[86:01]

And I remembered your words, you know, opened the heart and I went into my body. to anchor the mind, the busy mind and felt where the pain for me was in my body and I breathed into that place and all of those busy feelings melted away. They fell away. And what I came to see is that if I can just be in the body as well as mind spirit, and when they come together, there's no separation between my needs, her needs.

[87:04]

By giving over, I received peace. And what a wonderful teaching. So I want to thank you. Thank you for hearing the Dharma. I'd like to thank you for being available. I hear ritual and I'd like to thank our ancestors and the earth to allow us to have rituals, to give back and show our appreciation.

[88:13]

I hear practice, ritual and action I also hear intent. I thank you. You thank me? Yes. You're welcome. Thank you again for coming and thank you again for bringing grandmother back to us.

[89:20]

What keeps coming up for me are the words spontaneous and natural. uh... when we observe children they do things spontaneously and naturally because perhaps they don't know any better they just act and grandmothers and grandfathers in my observation do the same thing not because they don't know any better but because they've realized that it really doesn't matter that it's important to be spontaneous and natural As a grandmother, I can understand that way of being, but I'm also wondering if the same thing is not true for, or that feeling of spontaneity and naturalness is also not present for people who are seasoned athletes and craftsmen and chefs and other people who have really practiced their ritual or their craft to the point that they are totally mindful, but they're not caught up in thinking about it.

[90:33]

It's very spontaneous and natural. For me, until I became a grandmother, I was better able to relate to that kind of non-thinking that one needs in sports, where there's the body memory that's... built up because of attention to the ritual and practice so that in the midst of a game you're aware but if you overthink what you're doing sometimes it usually for me it doesn't work as well as just totally throwing myself into the excuse me into the game or even in cooking there's a similar experience I'm not a dancer, but I suspect that it's a similar experience. Am I... Is that an analogy that sits? Yes, it's fine.

[91:35]

And I just want to mention that sometimes when people... I just want to mention that spontaneous doesn't mean without cause. Well, right. It's what's appropriate, not just impulsive. Given the circumstances. So, for example, children have the causes of the children, and then the causes of the children are what make them be a child. And there's no additional causes that make them be a child. Spontaneity means something arises with no external cause. So you're saying that... You said it already, that at a certain point in training, like in the sport, the conditions of training and the conditions of the sporting event are there.

[92:37]

And when that's all that's there, we call that spontaneity. But if there's some external cause, like somebody thinking about what to do, then we see Deleuze's spontaneity. Because the sport is not somebody thinking about the sport. It's the body and mind reacting to the circumstances. And given a certain level of training, when that happens, it looks spontaneous. But when the beginner is playing and they aren't thinking about what to do, they look spontaneous too. It's when we get into worldly affairs, we get distracted from making what we're doing a gift. that we think there's something, you know, something has to be brought into the situation to get control of, then we don't see the spontaneity anymore. So your example I agree with completely. I'm just adding that the words, when people hear the word spontaneity or spontaneous, I just think actually the meaning of the word is not that something happens without cause, but that there's no external cause.

[93:45]

But a lot of times when we're doing things, we think there needs to be an external cause to what we're doing, namely somebody needs to be doing this. But there isn't anybody who's doing our action. There's just our action. And when we add somebody to it, we get distracted from spontaneity. Spontaneity is how we're breathing, how we're thinking, how we're talking, that spontaneously arises when all the causes and conditions create us. I don't make myself talk. When I think I make myself talk, I don't look spontaneous, I don't feel spontaneous. But when I speak out of the conditions that make it possible for me to speak, I look and feel spontaneous. And children often do not yet think that they're running down the street when they're running down the street. But adults sometimes think, okay, now I'm going to run down the street and then They run like adults. Almost no adults know how to run anymore because most adults think, I have to go running now.

[94:49]

But children very seldom think, I'm going to go running, especially the little ones. As they get older, they start thinking, OK, now I'm going to run. And they get taught to think about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And parents think that they have to control the children, but the grandparents less likely think that. So it's nice.

[95:17]

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