So we just said that we vow from this life on through our countless lives to hear the true Dharma. And upon hearing it, no doubt will arise in us, nor will we lack in faith. And upon meeting it, we will renounce worldly affairs and maintain the Buddha. Renouncing worldly affairs, in other words, Let go of anything, renounce anything that takes us away from what's happening right now.

[01:09]

And in that state of renunciation, we maintain the Buddhadharma, or the renunciation. maintains the Buddhadharma. I mentioned before that there's a kind of renunciation where one practices many excellent virtues in hope of some reward.

[02:38]

You could even say that there's a practice of virtues for yourself. You work on attaining concentration, of becoming a concentrated monk, of becoming a pure yogi. You do wonderful things to attain these things for yourself. Excellent things are practiced in hope of some reward. Then hearing the Dharma, understanding selflessness, there's no attachment. One realizes... For you or for me, personally.

[03:44]

so we're unattached. This is the first kind of renunciation. Second kind, one practices the same virtues, renounces all the merit, gives it away, dedicates it to others, and seeks no gain. Practices the virtues, gives away the merit with no expectation. This is another step in renunciation. And then the final or ultimate renunciation is that

[04:49]

One doesn't grasp anything. The process by which things are made is seen through. So there's not even practicing the virtues. You don't even see the virtues. There's no such things. there's no actor in action, no subject and object. All this has been forgotten and renounced. And yet, there is responding

[05:57]

perfectly and completely beneficially in each situation. The virtues are practiced and realized, but this level, the bodhisattva, doesn't see any or practice any. So in this way, Sometimes Zen teaching comes without even mentioning the virtues, because at this level, we don't go around thinking, I'm gonna practice this virtue, which I seek no reward for, and I'll give away the merit. There's not me practicing anymore. And the virtues come forward, but not because I'm practicing them, but because they're the response to the situation.

[07:05]

The response to the situation is always virtue. And this virtue emerges from a situation where mind and object have been the distinction between mind and object. The duality between mind and object is forgotten. And in that forgetting of self and other, every response is virtue, beyond any idea of virtue. But of course, this kind of pronunciation has to be based on the previous two types.

[08:09]

Or at least, I think on both the other types, you need both the other types for this type. And not because secretly you kind of remember that there's such a thing as virtues. You really have forgotten and don't see any things But this vision is based on seeing other things and wanting to help them and giving away the merit of helping them and seeking no reward for anybody. So we need all three dimensions mentioned here. Renunciation. And the final renunciation also, perhaps now you can see, is in its not grasping anything and not being able to grasp anything because no things are seen.

[09:20]

It is immediately tranquility. The mind cannot be disturbed. The mind, the undisturbed quality, of the mind is realized because there's no objects to disturb it separate from the mind. So it is immediately tranquility and this tranquility is united with insight because there's no separation really between subject and object. And in this mental one-pointedness there is samadhi. So this final renunciation is both stabilization, insight, and non-dual samadhi. So finally, I can see that renunciation, which is the beginning of our ordination process, which is the first thing in ordination,

[10:32]

And is the entry into practicing the precepts, one form of virtue called the precepts, is also the way of entry into all the practices of virtue. It actually is stabilization, insight, samadhi. So with samadhi, in this process and enter into the practice of virtuous compassion and wisdom. We start with renunciation and non-grasping and non-seeking. We start with giving up anything that distracts us from what's happening right now, and then enter the way.

[11:37]

So in sum, this basic teaching of the Zen school, the mind like a wall, functions like this in relationship to the entire process of the Buddha's samadhi, where skill and means and wisdom are mutually ...and purifying each other. Would you say something about the footsteps and all this? When I first called you, what mind was that? There is a teaching relationship to the bodhisattva precepts of ishin kai, which means ishin means one mind, and kai is precepts.

[12:49]

One mind precepts are sometimes called ichijo kai, one vehicle precepts. um one way to approach these precepts at talking about these precepts is that the the one mind or the one vehicle precept what you call it the in chinese in this is a something that developed mostly in china and it was it was a way that the buddhist practitioners could relate a practice in particular to Chinese philosophy which often deals with principle and phenomena. So the principle of the precepts is the one mind precept.

[13:56]

And the phenomena of the precepts is, for example, 16 bodhisattva precepts or 250 bodhisattva Vinaya precepts or 58 Bodhisattva precepts. These are various things you can see in the world about the precepts, but they are based on the one mind precept. What's the one mind precept? It's Buddha's mind. But you can't see this precept, it's everywhere. Renouncing everything, we receive the one mind precept, the one vehicle precept.

[14:58]

One vehicle precept, it looks like many people practicing different ways, or even three vehicles, or even three kinds of renunciation. But the one vehicle precept is that everybody is practicing the same practice, the same practice in the universe. Now is there some other aspect of that you'd like me to bring up? I could not understand what you said.

[16:17]

that actually everybody's practicing the same. So I try to keep in mind hiding the idea of as I say, special, as I'm practicing that, and not seeing that there are so many people, special people, who they forget as they're practicing all the time. Did you say that there's many precious people sitting together in the zendo, practicing the same? Is that what you said? Huh? Yeah. Jamie? Did you? Pardon? I thought she said something about I might be sitting thinking that I'm practicing.

[17:27]

Is that what she said? Is that what you meant, Jamie? Pardon? Oh, she wondered what hinders you from seeing that everybody, all the precious people are practicing the same? You wonder? Do you have some idea of what hinders you from seeing this? Hmm? No idea? Any ideas? Us from seeing that everybody's practicing the same practice? Grasping and seeking? Yeah. That sounds like a good possibility. If you grasp a self, for example, it will be hard to see the same as everybody. renouncing grasping and seeking, we open.

[18:30]

Okay? Grasping and seeking, we're already here. When there's grasping and seeking, first there's seeking, then there's things. So grasping and seeking makes a world, a certain type of world. Okay? Grasping and seeking. First there's grasping and seeking. Then there's things. First there's this thing that's grasped. First there's the self. Then there's the world. Then there's the zendo. Then there's zazen. Then there's practice. Okay? That's delusion. And so that's pretty familiar. The self is first. The self is before anything. the a priori self, the grasping of the self, and then practice all the wonderful things. And at that level, that's where we practice first usually. Got the self, and practice the virtues, and practice the virtues with some expectation for the self, which was there before.

[19:40]

After all, the self was first, so why shouldn't we be concerned with it? Practice is secondary. So that's the usual way. So then we practice, first there's we, then there's practice, first there's me, then there's practice that I do. Maybe I hear that this is empty and I let go. But when I let go first, or when there's release and renunciation first, we don't yet have a self. There's just renunciation. Then there's the people practicing. And when there's the people practicing, then there's me. So by renunciation first, everybody else comes first.

[20:42]

The world comes, and then there's me. There's me which is nothing but the coming of the world. So when I open to not grasping at or anything, then I also open to the revelation of the world coming forth and realizing itself and me. But if I grasp first, that hinders me from seeing this of all things giving me life or creating my life. So the translation of the Genjo koan where it says, for the second part, when all things come forth and realize it's enlightenment. When all things come forth and realize themselves, that's enlightenment.

[21:46]

That's nice in a way, but when you say themselves, it misses the fact of realizing the self. So it's hard to say which is the best way to translate that. Is the self and the self and the things coming forth? Well, yes. When the self of the things comes forth and realizes itself, or when the things come forth and realize themselves, that's me. But also, when the things come forth, I am realized. So it's both. Yes? I don't know, but it's me that... It doesn't sound like emancipation.

[22:46]

It sounds like sort of letting everything in and accepting it as... as yourself, as who you are. That's renunciation. So you let go of accepting everything as who you are. You don't want to grasp I shouldn't say you don't want to, but renunciation is you don't grasp that everything's you. You don't grasp the vision that the whole universe is really who you are. You let go of the vision that this person is not you. You let go of the idea that the object is separate from the subject. You let go of that, but then you don't grasp . So, what you said is renunciation also. When offering incense, I don't always say it, but sometimes, like this morning, I said, precept incense, samadhi incense, nirvana incense.

[24:11]

This offering pervades the dharmadhatu, realm of dharma, like bright light, like cloud forms, or like radiant clouds. Now I offer to inexhaustible Buddhas, bodhisattvas and arhats to increase, to augment their dharma joy. Know that incense offering realizes nirvana. Putting the stick of incense in realizes nirvana. It's freedom. And there the precepts and samadhi The precepts and renunciation and samadhi and nirvana are united.

[25:22]

Yes? You don't do it. How do you accept heaven? So you have to, before you get into hell, before you get into heaven, There needs to be renunciation of letting go. You have to let go of everything. You have to forget about that you're going to do the practice. First of all, you forget about, first of all, you let go of before anything happens.

[26:35]

That's your mode. Then, if you're allowing yourself to be released, if you're allowing the practice of relaxation, complete letting go, then when hell arrives, you have a chance. There's a chance for you that the renunciation will continue even when hell comes to test it. People, seems to me, have about as much trouble, even maybe more trouble not grasping heaven as they do not grasping hell. Because when you grasp hell, you get a shock, which actually helps you. Although you still maybe hold on tighter, you do get a shock. Whereas when you grasp heaven, you don't get the shock right away. You don't feel the shock so much. There is actually a disturbance, but it's so subtle, and also you're so happy.

[27:40]

So before you arrive in hell, it's good to be practicing renunciation. Now you may not be able to get in the pre-hell state, but if you can't learn how to let go in hell, then maybe you can learn how. But anyway, you don't do the letting go. Hell is simply an extreme version of you being in charge. Not even stay there. Not even stay there. See, I think he said, so I just stay there. Yeah. So I just stay there is still grasping. Now, changing the language doesn't necessarily do it, but anyway.

[28:51]

Just be there. Just let go. Release, non-grasping. And there can be a prayer, you know, may all beings realize non-grasping, may all beings realize non-grasping, rather than may I realize non-grasping. You can also say, may I realize non-grasping, but how about may all beings realize non-grasping. May there be no grasping, may there be no seeking, may there be no grasping, may there be no seeking. To remember this is to have achieved or to have realized the dharani of remembering the letting go. But again, letting go ultimately, and why not start there, ultimately it's not you letting go.

[30:02]

And actually the first renunciation too, it doesn't say, and then you detach yourself. It's just that hearing the Dharma, when the sentient being hears the Dharma, they become non-attached. But they don't do the non-attachment. It's the interaction between the Dharma and the person that realizes the release, the letting go, and the realization of freedom in that letting go. So if in hell, if in heaven, if in normal human suffering, whatever realm we're in, vow. We vow to hear the truth. Here in the true Dharma, there is renunciation of worldly affairs.

[31:08]

So even if in hell, even if in hell, there is renunciation of worldly affairs. Even in hell, I renounce discursive thinking. I renounce wandering around in hell. Or rather, there is renunciation of wandering around in hell. There's just hell. And there's no distraction from the actuality of hell. This is hell. That's it. We vow to hear the true dharma in hell. Hearing the true dharma in hell, there is no grasping or seeking. There's no grasping of hell or seeking for some other state. also means we hope, we pray that the, I don't know what, we sometimes say Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, but also we could say that the function of will be realized, which is to say we renounce worldly affairs.

[32:30]

But I don't do the renunciation. It just is allowed. And the more I pray for it and vow for it, perhaps some opening for it develops. But some part of us just says, if I can't be in charge of this renunciation, forget it. I don't care if I'm in hell. If I have to do what I have to do, I'll just stay here. Don't let them take away your agency. Again, I may be in hell, but I'm in charge, and I'm a good person here in hell. I made a few mistakes. Basically, I'm still good, and I'm in charge. Actually, kind of in control, too. I know how to get back here again. means this teaching of renunciation it actually accomplishes these regular Buddhist virtues of calm and insight and samadhi but it delivers the teaching on how to realize samadhi in a way that purifies us in the process so that we don't turn

[34:27]

tranquility inside in samadhi into more grasping practices. But we empty them early on in the process, which is exactly what they're ultimately about. So through what samadhi is about, we realize samadhi. What samadhi is about is nirvana and the precepts and all the virtues. That's what the samadhi is about. That's what's in the Buddhist samadhi. is all these virtues being worked on without being grasped body through non-grasping through renunciation In a sense, that's pretty much it.

[36:29]

However, yesterday I was talking with you about this scripture where it was said, thus the true Dharma was presented at the beginning of the scripture. Thus, or at least some words alluding to the true Dharma was at the beginning of the scripture. Thus, the true Dharma, it's like this. I've heard it's like this. And then the scripture goes on from the true Dharma is like this. And then the true Dharma says, I mean, the true Dharma is like this, namely the Buddha. There was a Buddha dwelling at some place. Okay, so what you do is you tune into the true Dharma.

[37:34]

What is the true Dharma? It's what is happening for you. It's right there. Now what's happening is you're hearing about the Buddha being on Vulture Peak. When I hear about the Buddha on Vulture Peak, Thus, when I hear that there's a vast assembly sitting around the Buddha, the true Dharma is like this. When I hear about these qualities of the bodhisattvas, the true Dharma is like this. That the thought arises, when I hear about the qualities of these bodhisattvas, the thought arises, are there really any people, any beings that have qualities like that?

[38:35]

And some people heard about these qualities of the bodhisattvas, and they thought, yeah, there are people like that. I'm one of those people. Some other people thought, is this like a dream, a fantasy, that there's a Buddha, that there was a Buddha, and that there were 72,000 bodhisattvas around the Buddha? These qualities, is that real or a dream that there's such a thing as 72,000 bodhisattvas and 32,000 arhats around the Buddha? Is there such a thing that there's about 60 monks in a mountain monastery? Is there such a thing? Is that more real than these 72,000 bodhisattvas around the Buddha on Vulture Peak?

[39:52]

I think many people would say, yes, it is more real. It's more real to me that there's about 60 people in this room than it is that there's 72,000 around the Buddha on Vulture Peak, or that there was. And this text that says so was written hundreds of years after the Buddha. We know that. We know that's true. In the world where there's 60 people in this room, there's ways of proving, just like there's ways of proving that there's 60 people in this room, there's ways of proving that the text which says that there were 72,000 bodhisattvas around the Buddha, that text was written a long time after the Buddha. And the way we prove that there's 60 people in this room is the same way we prove that the Buddha lived such and such a date.

[41:13]

The funny thing is, not the funny thing is, to me the funny thing is that the qualities of those bodhisattvas are realized, how? By opening to the reality of the 72,000 bodhisattvas and the 60 people. In the renunciation of the reality of the 60 people, we open to the... To the what? To the true Dharma. Grasping to this reality, it distracts us from the true Dharma. And in the true Dharma,

[42:27]

or rather the true Dharma can appear when we hear about 72,000 bodhisattvas. So, in one sense, reading about 72,000 bodhisattvas tests my renunciation. Namely, is it more interesting to read about 60 people in this valley In this valley, is that more interesting than to relate to 72,000 bodhisattvas around the Buddha? Is there a preference? Is there a grasping for the reality of this or the reality of that? In renunciation, the true Dharma appears in the 60 people and the true Dharma appears in the 72,000 bodhisattvas.

[43:45]

It appears in both situations, in hearing about the 72,000 bodhisattvas and in seeing the 60 people. For both those events, the true Dharma is like this. I don't see if there's no eyes. But there is seeing no eyes.

[44:47]

No ears. No nose, no tongue, no body, no mind. That's what is seen. When there is no eyes, that's what's seen. But I don't see it. That's right. Who see? Who see and whose assistance? Avalokiteshvara. Yes? You have a little guilt about? You don't believe what you're doing?

[45:52]

Like right now, do you believe what you're doing? You kind of believe what you're doing? And you feel guilty that you only kind of believe it? Like, not so much that I feel guilty, but I kind of have a feeling that I... ...believe that I'm guilty. You have an idea that you should believe what you're doing all the time. You believe in what you're doing. Like if you're washing dishes, you should believe in washing dishes. And if you're sitting in meditation, you should believe in sitting meditation. Kind of, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She kind of feels like if she's doing the practice, she should believe... in the practice that she's doing, right?

[46:57]

But sometimes she doesn't believe in the practice she's doing. Well, to some extent, I think that's good, because the practice you're doing is not the practice. So it's kind of good that you don't believe in the practice you're doing, because that's not the practice. That's just, you know, human grasping. So I actually wouldn't believe in human... I wouldn't believe in human grasping. I believe that human grasping is human grasping. And that's what I'm into when I'm doing this and I'm doing that. When I am talking to you, I understand that that is human grasping. And I don't trust that or believe that. So if you don't, I think that's fine, that you don't believe in what you're doing. What you're doing... is not the practice. What you're doing, in other words, what you think you're doing, or from the perspective of delusion, that's the definition of delusion.

[48:02]

So first there's Alisha, Alissa, and then there's, see? And then... So I said there was Alisha first, but now she says Alissa's first. So... Before I say what's going on, you're there, and then you do things. That's not practice, that's delusion. Practice is, there's things, and then there's you. And there's an activity of you. The activity of you is given to you. The you, which is active, is given. And then it acts. That's enlightenment. That's the practice. The practice which happens when all things come forth, and then there is an alisa, and then the alisa from that place is the practice. So I trust that.

[49:04]

However, do I really trust it? Well, in a sense I don't. I'd rather do what I don't trust, namely me doing things, because that's more familiar. To open up to the actual practice which I trust, let go of what I habitually trust, which is me practicing. Which is me practicing and confirming all things. To let go of delusion, to renounce delusion, to renounce what distracts me from the true dharma. What's the true dharma? The true dharma is not what I'm doing. It's that... While I'm being deluded thinking that I'm doing this, while I'm deluded thinking I'm doing that, the true Dharma is right there. Where is it? It's right there. It's just like this. How do I see it? Renounce this perspective, this deluded perspective which is grasping me and what I'm doing. Let go. Me practicing. Me doing this. Me sitting zazen. me studying, me being kind, me being helpful.

[50:09]

Let go of that perspective. Renounce those worldly affairs. They're called practice, but it's worldly affairs if I'm doing it. It comes from all things coming forth at the moment. It comes from the body, the bodies of others, the stream, the zendo, the lights, the air, the earth, the sky, everything comes forward in the morning is activity. The activity in renunciation is totally determined by the arising of the conditions, by the coming forth of all things. That is enlightenment. So there's no longer me doing things, but there's a great activity. So I trust the true dharma means I trust that if I let go of my perspective of delusion, the true dharma will become realized and the activity of the true dharma will come.

[51:24]

Wherever I am, there seems to be this world of me doing things. And if I'm in a monastery, there still seems to be me doing things. That seems to be the case. But that's worldly affairs, that perspective of me doing the practice. I renounce that. I let go of that. I don't grasp that. I don't apprehend that appearance. And in the non-grasping of that perspective, the other perspective, it is allowed into the life, and the great activity comes forward. It's inconceivable helpfulness. Because I have just let go of my... So it's inconceivable process, the process which is not... bounded by my conceptual thought, the actual process of all things is allowed to be realized.

[52:33]

Whatever it is, whatever is happening, whatever it is, whatever is happening, whatever is happening, whatever is happening, don't be distracted from the true Dharma. And The thing that distracts us from true Dharma is grasping. Whatever is happening, not grasping it and not seeking anything else, the true Dharma is shown to us. Does that make any sense to you? Alyssa? It does? It doesn't make sense to a listener, but it makes sense. Great. If practicing

[53:42]

the monastic forms. If living in the perspective of me practicing the monastic forms is not practice, you have a question? Yes. It helps because at the first level of renunciation is when practicing monastic forms, which are virtues, when practicing the virtues of the monastic precepts. Okay? from the perspective of i'm going to do these and i hope it does some good and also i hope it does some good for me i hope some reward and i had some expectation that now i don't just hope i sort of expect that it will be helpful okay that's the way you start is that beneficial because this is an opportunity now while doing this selfish practice it's an opportunity to hear the Dharma, because they channel Dharma into these precept places. And then hearing the Dharma, then there's no attachment.

[54:59]

Then you give up, then there's a release from you doing it. Then the renunciate, then the actual practice starts. Before that, it is very similar to all other worldly affairs. It's just that in practicing virtues, one of the virtues of virtues is that piped in there. And so it keeps pounding on the practitioner. Practitioners in a monastic situation, the monastic situation keeps saying, you worthless, selfish, stupid person. You think you're doing this practice? The forms are set up to keep saying, you think this is about you? It keeps pounding on you. You know, because, you know, you're, I'm doing these practices, but how come the schedule doesn't correspond to me? How come they're ringing the bell now?

[56:02]

So, the situation, it's not like, you know, what do you call it, club med. You where they have all the bells and stuff set up to not remind you of how selfish you are. The virtue of the monastic forms is how stupid it is to approach them from the selfish point of view. So that dharma is pounding on you, that's the virtue of them. While you're doing them from the point of view of I'm doing them, you're the same as a person who's on the most selfish vacation possible. You're basically the same. You're going the same places. But you're in a situation which you have voluntarily entered, which keeps saying to you, it's time to do this. And you say, you know, you say, no, no. No. That interaction keeps giving you, that's giving you the dharma, you know, and then finally you say, you get it, you say, oh, now I see why I've been doing, I've been voluntarily putting myself in a situation where I, a good share of the time, don't get to do what I want.

[57:14]

Now I see, now I see. And then the perspective of the practice changes and it becomes actual, which is a shift from you doing it to all things coming forth, and then you get to, then you're there doing it. But under the auspices of all dharmas, the practice happens. The practice called, you know, you practicing. So it is virtuous to do practices. The virtue of them is the virtue that you might shift the perspective. But until the perspective shifts, we're no better in some ways. I shouldn't say we're no better. We are better. We are better. Because we're... We're subjecting ourselves to this message. We're subjecting ourselves to greed, hate, and delusion. I mean, we're subjecting ourselves to the idea that we're involved in greed, hate, and delusion. We say that, you know. We have wedding ceremonies, right?

[58:15]

Where these people get together to get married. And in our wedding ceremony, we give the precepts. Right? Because they want to have the precepts be part of their life, right? To live happily ever after. Not killing each other, not stealing, you know? Not lying to each other. Not misusing sexuality. They say, ah, these are good. This will help us to have a nice marriage. We usually don't say, from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion. We don't mention that usually in a ceremony because, you know, the guest's kind of like, oh, yuck. Right? These two cute little people, they're like, they have beginningless greed, hate, and delusion. Oh, how obnoxious. Oh, these morbid. Oh, how nasty. Are you accusing these people of endless greed, hate, and delusion? Are you forcing them to confess? I'm caught up in endless, beginningless, endless, not endless, beginningless greed, hate, and delusion.

[59:18]

It has an end. So we don't mention it because it's a happy time, right? Happy wedding. Happy, happy. No greed, hate. No greed, hate. These people aren't greedy. They're not greedy for each other. They don't hate each other. They're not confused about each other. No. No. No, but in the monastery... In the monastery, on a daily basis, we say, I say, the abbot says, the leaders say, I've been involved in beginningless greed, hate, and delusion. It's a virtuous situation in the sense of you're exposing yourself to this. Why would you expose yourself to this? So this perspective can shift. But prior to that, although you're exposing yourself to this virtuous practice, it's not really virtuous except in the sense that it's forcing you to let go.

[60:25]

So I think you can feel the pressure to let go, can't you? You seem to be feeling it. The difficulty of the practice is just in the clinging and seeking. Aside from that, it's very, very easy and comfortable. I think you all have a little taste of that. A few moments of not clinging and seeking, and really it's easy. It's not, it's just not even easy. It's just happening. So that's the virtue of the practices of monastic exercise program. Even though it's virtuous, if it continues to be practiced on a dualistic basis, you're heading in the same direction as the most selfish person And even a person who's not even, like, admitting that they've been involved in beginningless karma of greed, hate, and delusion. Until renunciation happens, you're on the same page as people who, like, don't even want to practice virtue.

[61:30]

In some senses, they're honest. I do not want to practice virtue. I'm really angry at the world. I want to just promote virtue. I'll lay waste to anybody who gets in my way. And if people want to help me, okay. But anybody who's not, I'd be happy to just evaporate them. This person's heading for trouble, of course. Or this attitude's heading for big trouble. But clinging to what we're doing is heading the same way. It's not as bad, but it's heading the same way. Because fundamentally, it's what the other person is doing, too. That's the fundamental thing. Yes? The source of relaxation.

[62:37]

And I think that there's a way that maybe we fundamentally are relaxed, but in the moment we're asking that the group of faith relax. It seems like relaxation has to be in something really gentle. I agree. So it seems like renunciation needs to be something real. Relaxation needs to be something gentle, but something powerful over something.

[63:41]

It needs to be able to jump over the ravine of impossibility. Well, when we're in hell, gentleness in hell, the renunciation just has leaped over the gap of impossibility. To be gentle with being in hell, basically, I mean, to be really gentle with being in hell, basically renunciation. To not fight being in hell when you're in hell, That's basically renunciation, because generally speaking, we fight being in hell. We get in hell by fighting, and we generally, oftentimes, fight the consequences. So being gentle with the consequences... You know, gentle with hell.

[64:51]

Okay, I'm in hell. You be gentle now. And you say a leap of faith, but gentle, the faith has already leaped. I mean, in fact, it's working. Now you could say, which is not exactly faith, it's more like kind of faith, but it's also like the realization of faith. I'm in hell now. Yeah, I'm in hell. This is a time to say, to practice Dharma. So if you think that, then faith has just leaped. If you fight back, faith has not leaped. But to try to get in charge of the faith leaping, that's not faith. That's faith in seeking. That's faith in, well, let's just get control of Buddhism. I mean, you know, it sounds good, and let's just like get in control of it. Let's make it happen here.

[65:53]

It's kind of rough. I mean, it's nice, it's okay. I mean, doesn't that sound fine? Practice, shall we? But it's a little bit more like, oh, we know what the practice is, and wouldn't that really be good? And wouldn't it be nice to remember that? And aren't we remembering it now? Renunciation, again, is another word for it is surrender. And surrender isn't, you know, I think surrender's gentle. The Buddhists are gentle. The Buddhists have surrendered to this world. They've surrendered. And because they've surrendered, they get to be the leaders. Because they're working for everybody. So they surrender in hell. And surrendering, in one sense, means to bow down and be humble. And in that humility, you're sitting up straight.

[66:59]

You're balanced. But there's something about this leap of faith in hell. It sounds like you also want to leap out of hell. So when you don't want to, when you're in hell and you're giving place, faith has just leaped into hell. when you're in hell and you're wondering or you haven't gone to hell yet but you're planning you're making reservations ahead of time to make sure that you have your you know survival kit with you well that's okay what's the survival kit the survival kit is you're having right now don't grasp that planning for being safe when you get to hell if you give up grasping That renunciation of grasping right now is the kind of condition which promotes the renunciation of grasping when hell arrives. Not worrying about protecting yourself, or rather worrying about protecting yourself and letting go of that, prepares you for the possibility

[68:16]

or sets the conditions, plants the good roots. So now practicing, now giving into, now surrendering, now letting go, now renouncing anything that distracts you from what's happening now. Plants good roots. So that when hell arrives, the roots can blossom into not grasping in hell. So when people come in, we have something delivered to you, miss. Sarah, we have help for you. Will you accept this delivery? You have some wise thing to say. I don't know what it will be. It might be, I neither accept nor do not accept. You may have something wise to say. You may say, you know, I think... it would be good to just set hell down right over there. And I'll open it later.

[69:19]

You have a lot of flexibility because you're not attached. You're not grasping at hell. You're not trying to get away from hell. And this is the maturing of the good roots that you planted at Zen Mountain Center. When you weren't in hell, maybe. It's hard to practice in hell. It's hard to lay down good roots in hell. So now, plant good roots of non-grasping. And when they bring the big bad hell, you may have a chance, there may be a chance for renunciation to continue in the worst hell. That's how bodhisattvas can go into the... because the good roots that they planted when they were practicing virtue together with renunciation mature in making it possible for them to continue to relax in the worst, or the most challenging situations, the deepest, most challenging hells, their renunciation blossoms there.

[70:24]

Because in the monastery, the pleasant monastery, with its moderate temperatures, was a place where they planted the roots of renunciation, the roots of non-grasping. And those practices mature in these challenging situations. And these challenging situations actually bring the practice to its fuller and fuller realization so that bodhisattvas can demonstrate that they actually can love the most despicable beings. that there's no being that's so terrible that they can't love. There's no being who's so miserable and cruel that they can't devote their life to them. These are the great miracles that these bodhisattvas and sutras are able to perform of renunciation. Well, we've been sitting here for more than an hour, so perhaps we can do some toilet breaks.

[71:49]

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