We have been meditating on the intimate relationship between the flower adornment scripture and Zen practice in China, in Japan, and Korea, and now here in the Western Hemisphere. Recently, in this temple, we looked at chapter, book 16, which is called, in one translation, religious practice, in another translation, brahma practice. Anyway, bodhisattva practice. And we talked about that the last time we met here, that book.

[01:11]

And I really appreciate that book and the title I gave to the meeting we had on January 17th. The title I gave was What is practice? And then to say it's this misses the point. So I feel that that chapter is asking what practice is and it's also saying that to say it's this or this or this misses the point. pointing at it, misses the point. And that statement, to say this misses the point, is a statement that's made when the sixth ancestor said to a monk named Nanyue Huirong, a Chinese monk, the sixth ancestor said,

[02:28]

what is it that thus comes? For example, what is the practice that thus comes? What is the practice that comes thus? And the monk said, to say this misses the point. So I felt that that story is kind of a narrative version of that chapter, that book 16. And you can listen to that talk if you'd like to under the audio talks. And then a couple of weeks ago online, I also reviewed chapter 16 a little bit and started to introduce the next book of the great scripture, which is called

[03:29]

the merit of the first arising of the mind of awakening. The first arousing, the first coming of the thought. of realizing, of the aspiration of realizing true awakening. It's the chapter titled, The Merit of That First Arising, of the intention, the aspiration, the resolve to realize authentic awakening. And as I mentioned before, the name of the city center of the San Francisco Zen Center, some people say it's called beginner's mind.

[04:40]

But the Japanese name is Hoshinji, which means arising of the mind. It's the arising of the Bodhi mind. So the English name of the temple, together with the Chinese, is the first, the beginning, the beginning mind of aspiring true awakening. And that expression in the Chinese sutra, it says beginner's mind arousing the mind. It actually says beginning arousing of the mind. The beginning arousing of the first arousing of the mind. So this chapter starts off by talking about the merit and the title, the merit of this event, of this aspiration arising in a living being like you and me.

[05:48]

So at the beginning of the chapter, Indra, the supreme ruler of all the deities, addresses the bodhisattva. Dharma wisdom. Dharma wisdom bodhisattva, who is also the main speaker back in the previous chapters. 16 and 15. Now this bodhisattva is being asked by the supreme ruler of the deities, child of Buddha. The sovereign, the supreme ruler says to the bodhisattva, addresses the bodhisattva, child of Buddha.

[07:00]

What is the extent? What is the merit? What is the extent? What is the measure of the merit? What is the measure of the merit attained when the bodhisattva first resolves to become awakened? And again, another translation. Indra says, child of Buddha, how much merit is acquired by the Bodhisattva making his initial resolve to attain Bodhi. And I'd like to point out

[08:14]

the words attain, acquire, attain. In response to this question about how much or what the measure of the merit is, the Bodhisattva Dharma wisdom gives about a dozen examples to give a feeling, to give a sense, to give some understanding of the measure of the first appearance of this mind in a being.

[09:17]

And each one is basically each of these 12 kind of examples or 12 analogies is for the purpose of opening our minds to how great this aspiration is. When it first arises, So the pattern is, first the bodhisattva describes some really good deed, amazingly good, wholesome activity. And then, after describing it, the bodhisattva asks Indra, would the merit of that be much? And Indra said, only a Buddha would know how much.

[10:26]

Other people would not know how much it is. Over and over, describing these inconceivably wonderful deeds and then being asked, would the merit of that be much? saying only a Buddha would know how great it is. Other people would not. For now I'll just give you one of the examples. Maybe we have enough concentration to deal with one of the examples. which is, in each one, suppose that someone made offerings to Buddhas, to all Buddhas in ten directions for eons, and then taught various wonderful meditation practices to people.

[11:40]

Suppose someone made offerings to Buddhas in ten directions, for eons, and then taught their Dharma to people. Would the merit of that be great? And Indra says, only a Buddha would know. That wasn't too bad, was it? But I must say, when I read this a long time ago, as I got into these examples, I just, I was I wrote in the margin. I couldn't keep reading. It was too much for me to read these descriptions. However, after writing that, I did continue, but I was really having a hard time. That first one's pretty easy. The other ones get bigger and [...] bigger.

[12:43]

Oh, and I forgot to tell you one other example. That's repeated. It gives this very meritorious thing and it says, the merit of this compared to the merit of the first time this mind arises is not, doesn't make an infinitesimally, it's infinitesimal compared to the merit of the first arising. So it describes these extremely meritorious deeds and then saying, The merit of this thing, which is only a Buddha knows, is infinitesimal compared to when this thought arises in a living being. Now, I'm not saying this is the most meritorious thing in the universe. I would just say that inconceivably wonderful things are minuscule compared to it in terms of their merit.

[13:45]

That's the first section of the sutra. For me, I really had a hard time reading it. It was just like a shock, a real slap in the face or a slap in the mind. Anyway, That's the first part. And maybe we'll go through it someday into another of the examples. Maybe if we met 12, if we had another year, we could do one a month. And you might feel, this is too much for me. I can't stand to listen to this. But anyway, I'm just doing one of the 12. Now, after doing even just one of the 12, I come back to the first sentence, which is, what measure is attained?

[15:00]

What measure is acquired? Basically, we found out now that the measure of this first thought is kind of big. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of the extent of the universe, the merit of it. If the whole universe was merit, that gives you a feeling for the merit of this first thought. Because it's so big, it cannot be acquired. It cannot be attained. Because it's so big, that there's nothing to attain. This thought is so big and its merit is so big that nothing can be attained. And there is nothing to attain because this thought is the whole universe and the whole universe can appear in the mind of a living being in this form.

[16:11]

would also call to your attention the first verse of this enormous scripture. The first verse which appears in the first book. And the first verse is... The body of Buddha, the Buddha body, extends, pervades throughout the entire, excuse me, throughout all the great assemblies. The Buddha body extends throughout all the great assemblies. filling the Dharma realm without end silent and still with no nature ungraspable it appears in order to liberate beings that's the first verse now a little comment on that is

[18:13]

that this Buddha body extends into all the assemblies means that it extends throughout this assembly. The Buddha body extends throughout this assembly. It extends throughout each one of us. It extends throughout your whole body, including when your body has the thought, I don't like this sutra. The thought, this sutra is too much for me, is pervaded by the Buddha body. The first time I went to Tazahara in the summer of 1967, right after they finished their first practice period, I visited, I met various people who became very important in my life, who I practiced with for the next 58 years, unless they died, and quite a few did.

[19:23]

Anyway, it was a nice meeting, and I did not like the place. I did not like Tuftahara. I did not like the smell of the baths, which I didn't go to, and I did not like the flies biting me. And after I left, I thought, not right away, but a little while after I left, I thought, maybe I'll go live there. I don't like this sutra. I'm leaving. And then a little while later, I'm going to go live there. So now I'm living in this sutra, which I didn't like. However, the place where I wrote that note was on page 412.

[20:28]

So I did go a ways before I kind of like just kind of gave up. But now I'm back for a while. The Buddha body extends throughout the our body and mind, and in that meeting of the Buddha body and our body, this thought can arise and has arisen. And the first time it arises, it's wonderful beyond all powers of description. So, in chapter 16, we brought up Hway Nung, called the sixth ancestor, meeting his wonderful student, Huay Rang.

[21:50]

They met, and it was a great meeting, and they gave the teaching of the sutra. What is the practice that the Buddha brings? What is the practice that comes to us through the Tathagata? And the monk said, to say this misses the point. And Hui Nong said, well then is there no practice? If you can't say this is, if saying this is the practice misses the point, does that mean there's no practice? And the monk said... I don't say there's no practice. He just can't defile it. It can't be defiled brackets by saying this is it. You can say that, but it won't hurt the practice for you to say it's this. It is indestructibly present even though you say it's this.

[22:56]

But he didn't say it's this. He just said what he said, which is it cannot, some people translate it, it must not, but I would say it cannot be defiled by anything, fortunately, because it is extending itself everywhere. You can't stop it. I can't stop it. You can hate it. You can like it. But it's pervading you, according to the scripture, And then the six ancestors said, this undefiled way is what all Buddhas and ancestors have been protecting. Now you're like this, and I'm like this too. Like a mother looking at her baby and saying,

[23:56]

You're so wonderful and you're just like me. The student was so wonderful and he was just like the teacher in this undefiled practice. That was for chapter 16. Now, chapter 17, there's another story about the sixth ancestor. who apparently lived in China and had some experiences. So he was a laborer. He was a common laborer. And he made a living by gathering firewood, chopping it up and bringing it

[24:59]

the great assembly of the marketplace in Guangzhou, southern China. I went to Guangzhou one time and went to the six ancestors, one of his temples. Anyway, in this story, he wasn't the sixth ancestor yet. He was just called Workman Lu. His family name was Lu. So he's in there, in this great assembly, and the Buddha body is extending into everybody in the assembly, into all their thoughts, into all their bodies, into all their deeds. And he's walking through the marketplace and he hears somebody who has been pervaded by the Buddha body reciting the Diamond Sutra.

[26:11]

And he listens to the Diamond Sutra and when it gets to the place where it says bodhisattvas generate or bodhisattvas should generate or bodhisattvas are given a mind which doesn't abide in anything, which doesn't abide in colors, sounds, tastes, tangibles, or smells, or mind, mental phenomena. It doesn't rely on or abide in any of them. When he heard that, The usual way of telling the story is he awoke. Today I'd like to suggest that he awoke to the wish to realize true awakening.

[27:18]

And I'm not saying that thought arose in his mind in Chinese. not in English, not in Vietnamese. I'm saying it arose and I don't know what language it was or was not expressed in. This is my suggestion to look at this event that happened to that ancestor in that assembly. He awoke he woke up to that wish, that resolve. He awoke to the determination to live a life of realizing Buddhahood. Again, the way the story is usually told is,

[28:27]

he awoke. But the story goes on. So after he awoke to this wish to be a bodhisattva, which this first one, which is of immeasurable merit, what did he do? now that he has been blessed by this first arousing of the wish to realize Buddha. What did he do? Go ahead, you can tell me. He wished to find a teacher. That's true, yes. But the way he did it was he asked a question. Right after awakening, he wasn't done because he wants to enter a path of the bodhisattva.

[29:35]

He awoke to that he wanted to live that life. This interpretation I never heard before. I mean, I heard it before in my mind a few days ago. But it's the first time I've heard anybody say it out loud in a group or in private. So congratulations. You're also hearing it probably for the first time. You've heard this story before, but again, the story usually goes, he awoke and then he asked. But I say he awoke to the wish to ask. To ask, what sutras is this from? Where did this come from? Where did this gift come to me? The person said, it's in the Diamond Sutra. And then he said, well, who teaches this? Is there somebody alive that teaches this? And the person said, yeah, there is.

[30:38]

There's a person named, what's his name? What? Yeah, Daman Kunin. Hongren. who's also called the fifth ancestor. He teaches it up north in this country called China. Again, he woke up. Yippee! And what does he do? He starts practicing, asking questions about what he just heard. Then he asks questions about who teaches it. He's on the path. He woke up that he wanted to do it and he started practicing. Right away. Because that's what he discovered. That's what was revealed to him that he wanted to live a life of questioning. What sutra? Who teaches it? And one could say the merit of that event in that marketplace was really great.

[31:52]

It's sort of like it really was a a great blooming of the Zen tradition. Even though he hadn't yet become the successor, because he hadn't even met his teacher yet, the wish to meet his teacher arose, and he followed up on it. And what he awoke to, this wish to realize Buddhahood, is something where there's nothing to attain, where there's nothing to acquire. So this, the beginning of this sutra, of this chapter,

[32:54]

He's kind of ironic because Indra is saying to him, how much merit do you acquire? How much merit do you attain? It's so great that you can't get over it, you can't get under it, you can't get around it. There's nothing to attain. And then the sutra goes on to say stuff like having aroused for the first time the determination they are able to know the first attainment of true awakening as well as the final nirvana of all Buddhas of the past.

[33:55]

and there's nothing to attain. They're able to know. How do you first know true awakening? What's the first way we know true awakening? It's this wish. The first way we know awakening is this wish. That's what this is saying. People may think they know awakening other ways, That's not true awakening that they think they know. This is the way. Part of the history of Zen in the West that I witnessed was I met these wonderful people who were like the children of what's called what's it called? The beat generation.

[35:03]

Before the hippie generation, there was the beat generation. And those beat generation people, they had awakenings. They had awakenings. But their awakening was not, in a lot of cases, it was not I want to practice the bodhisattva way. It was, I'm awake. I'm enlightened. Let's get drunk. So a lot of these people who had these awakening experiences either were or became alcoholics. True awakening is not, I'm enlightened, I got something.

[36:09]

Especially the first time. You can say this is great, that's okay. But it is great to wish to walk the path of Buddhahood. It is great. But it's more like, I want to walk it, even if it's tiny. No matter what it is, this is what I want to do. And so I witnessed some of these wonderful people who had these awakenings, and they did have awakenings, but they were not the awakening of, I'm going to be a bodhisattva, I want to do the bodhisattva path, and I want to find a teacher. They did not find teachers, most of them. Some did, and that was happy, happy, happy. Allen Ginsberg did, that was good. I was happy he found a teacher. It's great. And a few of the other beats, Ananda Dahlenberg, he found a teacher. Gary Snyder found a teacher.

[37:11]

The ones who realized they needed a teacher, they didn't have to become alcoholics to cope with the light that they saw. They went and studied with teachers, but the ones who didn't, I mean, they were amazing people, wonderful people. They couldn't go and find... They didn't even try, as far as I know. I'm not sure. Maybe they tried. And actually, Alan Watts is one of them. He did refer people to Suzuki Roshi. And a few other ones, like Gregory Corso, did come to Zen Center, but then they went away. Yeah, so I lived through... a phase where people had these awakenings, but they weren't this one. They weren't the true awakening. First appears in the wish to live the life of a bodhisattva and realize Buddhahood for the welfare of this world.

[38:22]

And then the Sitrosa says, as soon as as one sets the mind on complete awakening, that's one translation, as soon as the mind, as soon as one sets the mind on true awakening, on complete perfect awakening, as soon as that happens, one is praised by all Buddhas. And one can thereupon expound the teachings and so on. How do you expound the teachings? Well, we just told a story. Here's the sixth ancestor. He's awakened. And how does he expound the teaching? By the teacher.

[39:34]

But before that... He asked a question. He woke up and he expounded the teaching by asking a question. Where did this come from? What sutra is this? And then he expounded the teaching again. Who teaches it? And he kept asking questions. He was expounding the teaching. He could expound the teaching now. And he was praised by all Buddhas and remembered by all Buddhas. And then the sutra says, This bodhisattva who has just woken up, this bodhisattva who has just had the mind where this aspiration occurs, does not apprehend anything. This bodhisattva who has just awakened and who has received

[40:36]

this aspiration to realize Buddhahood, they don't apprehend anything. For example, they ask a question. That's not to apprehend anything, just to live the path. And then it says, they don't apprehend, for example, they don't apprehend the teacher. They don't apprehend the Buddha. They don't apprehend the Buddha Dharma. They don't apprehend bodhisattva. They don't apprehend bodhisattva practices. They aspire to bodhisattva practices. And at that very moment, they're praised by all Buddhas. And they now can have found the Dharma and they don't apprehend anything. Now, if they do... If they have by any chance been looking for a teacher, if they apprehend something, they might continue to look for a teacher.

[41:45]

But the way that they're appropriately looking for a teacher is not to apprehend anything. And again, if they slip, from this proper way of practice, with the teacher, who they're trying not to apprehend, but they just tried to, then they can tell the teacher, I know the bodhisattva way is that we don't apprehend the teacher. But I just tried to apprehend you, and I'm sorry. And the teacher says, something like. This is the pure and simple color of true practice, to confess that you tried to apprehend the teacher. This is the pure body of practice, to confess that after aspiring to the bodhisattva way, you slipped into trying to get the bodhisattva way.

[43:04]

but when you first do it, you actually do not try to get anything. You just give yourself to the practice. And this bodhisattva, who does not try to get anything in past, present, or future, this bodhisattva does not try to get anything in the three times. Then this bodhisattva, who has made the initial resolve, does not have the slightest thing that they obtain. So this is just a little bit of chapter, a little bit of Book 17 with some comments. And we'll see if you can stand to do this again someday. Because we just did a little bit. There's so much more. But basically, you got the picture, right?

[44:06]

The merit is immeasurable. That's how much merit. It's immeasurable. And this mind comes to us not by our own power, but by the body of awakening. It pervades us. And when causes and conditions are right, the pervasion, the the extension blooms in us as this thought. And then when this thought arises, there's all kinds of wonderful things, like we can practice the Bodhisattva way, we can teach Dharma by practicing the Bodhisattva way, we can practice the Bodhisattva way, we can teach Dharma by practicing the Bodhisattva way. And there's nothing to attain, There's nothing to get, and that's what it's like to practice the Bodhisattva way and to continue to be devoted to a way where there's nothing to get, and yet all kinds of stuff's given to us.

[45:18]

The Buddhas remember us. The Buddhas praise us. The Buddhas give us teaching. The Bodhisattvas praise us. They give us teachings. We get all these gifts, and there's nothing to get. nothing, not the slightest thing, do we obtain. It just turns out that's the kind of path that is the path of Buddhahood. It's the path where there's nothing to attain. But there's also a path where everything in your life you have to give, everything about you is a gift to this path. And when the Buddha pervades us, We want to give our entire life to awakening and not to get anything back, but to benefit all beings. Well, that's an introduction to Book 17.

[46:19]

And I'm happy that I had this little thought, that this first thought of awakening is what happened for our great ancestor in the marketplace in Guangzhou 1,300 years ago. That arose in his mind because of the great compassion and wisdom of the Buddhists. They gave this gift to that young man, and then he gave back. And I could just parenthetically mention that he got a little distracted in the process of paying back. I told you this before, so after he heard about the teacher, of this teaching which was given to him, he started to head in the direction of the teacher, and on the way, he met a Buddhist nun who was studying the Nirvana Sutra,

[47:30]

And she told him about the Yamana Sutra and he helped her understand it. This young guy just recently awakened to the Bodhisattva path. He helped her understand the Great Sutra. And she was really awe-inspired by this young person. Just an ordinary lay worker. And so she asked him, So she told the people in her village that she met this bodhisattva and said, let's invite him to give talks. So they invited him to give talks, and they really appreciated these talks. He hadn't even read the Nirvana Sutra. He couldn't read. He couldn't read the Diamond Sutra either. So now he's giving lectures on the Buddhist scriptures that he can't read, and a lot of people are coming and really appreciating it. Amazing, huh?

[48:34]

But then he remembered, oh, wait a minute. I'm on the board of self-apath and I'm going to find a teacher. So he said bye-bye to his congregation. Sorry. I'm happy to meet you. Wish you well. I'm going to meet my teacher. Just like I went to China to go meet him. Unfortunately, I didn't get distracted on the way. So then he went and he did meet his teacher. And you heard about that story. And that story is, I think, in a previous audio recorded. I'm happy I got that off my chest. I feel much lighter now.

[49:35]

I carry this big thing to you here. So we started contemplating book 17. Yes, Linda? Did you meet him? Yeah. I did meet him. It wasn't the place in Guangzhou. I went to that place. But I somehow didn't get that I was meeting him there. But then when I went to the place up north where he has a big monastery it's called Sao Shi and lots of ancestors studied there when he was alive and afterwards. So I met him there because somebody tipped me off that that was going to happen. Somebody tipped me off that's what I was going to do I was leaving the hotel room fancy motel and Dr. Chu said are you going to meet your ancestor and I said yeah I hadn't thought of it that way before I was just going to go to the monastery and she said are you going to go and meet your ancestor and

[51:00]

and tears came, and I said, yeah, that's what I'm going to do now. And so we went to the monastery, and then we went up in this huge gate, and I went through the gate, and I felt like, I'm coming to meet my ancestor, our ancestor. I didn't know I was going to feel that way, and the tears started coming, that I was going to meet the ancestor. And then I went into the... the Buddha Hall and I just started bowing and it was a hot day and I bowed and I bowed and I bowed and I met the ancestor who was none other than the sweat drenching my robes. Yeah, it was a great meeting. You can go too. You meet

[52:02]

The ancestor. But you don't have to wait to go to China. You can meet the ancestor today. I think there's a picture of him right around the corner. Yes. and then let you just phrase that the Buddha can judge the merit. Could you talk a little louder, please, Monson? Yeah, I'm just wondering about these two different pieces of Buddha being able to judge a particular merit, one where they can't, which is one person saws it, and all the Buddha can't be done in Bukong.

[53:03]

And then this other one where they're actually able to Well, that's what Indra said. Indra said only the Buddhas would be able to. But several times before this, in this sutra, this sutra is not under control. Several times before this, in this sutra, it says, basically, Even if all the Buddhas in ten directions gathered their Buddha wisdom and tried to measure the merit of this, whatever it was in that chapter, it was zazen, but something, they would not be able to do it. At least three times before this it said that. But Indra, Indra is a wonderful bodhisattva, but Indra doesn't seem to understand that even the Buddhas can't measure the merit of that thing. Not to mention, And the question, how much is it?

[54:04]

And Indra's saying only Buddhists can measure it. That wasn't of the Zazen. That wasn't of the first thought of awakening. It was of making offerings to Buddhists in ten directions for eons. The merit of that, he said, only a Buddhist. Maybe Buddha is not that merit. But it doesn't say at the end, Do the Buddhas know the merit of this first thought? No. Even the Buddhas don't know the merit of this thought. It's... They are the merit of this thought. Yeah. So that phrase from the Furkanza Zenki, you could say, is lifted from this sutra. Because this sutra has it repeatedly that this bodhisattva practice... is immeasurable. I see Christine Marie, but Homa was before you.

[55:12]

Yes, Homa? Thank you, Reb. My quest is for some reason I feel this immeasurable, unmeasurable. They must see and meet each other. Well, they do. Of course, she says she sees the measurable and the immeasurable, and she says they must meet each other. And she said, absolutely. They meet absolutely. And in this sutra, of course, the immeasurable includes the measurable. But in this sutra, the measurable includes the immeasurable. They mutually include each other. They don't just meet, they interfuse each other. So the immeasurable thought of awakening infuses itself in all of us.

[56:16]

So the Buddha body is not just the first thought, but the first thought is the same as the Buddha body. It's also the final nirvana of the Buddhas. They both are pervading all beings. Christine Marie? I guess I can just use the word thought that it's not the first action or the first step toward or the volition for. I guess I just think that thoughts are so cheap. We spend so much time talking about Did you say thoughts are cheap? They can be cheap. They can be cheap, yeah. So in a cheap thought, this thought can arise. In a little deluded thought, in that little deluded thought, it can happen that the Buddha body

[57:32]

pervades it, but not just pervades it, but there is the arising of this aspiration in the middle of this diluted little cheap thought. Now if it's a big, not so diluted, or a very expansive thought, if it's a human thought, or a sentient being thought, it can arise there too. It doesn't have to be cheap, but cheap's fine. That's the sound of, what do you call it? Chicks. Cheep, cheep. It can arise, can it arise in a chicken? Can it arise in a chickadee? The answer is yes. Does the Buddha body pervade baby chickens? Yes. Does it pervade baby humans? Yes. Can this thought arise in a baby human?

[58:33]

Maybe. I don't have one off the top of my head to tell you about where I can show you that a baby human had an awakening, but maybe they can. It is possible. Can an illiterate worker in the marketplace have it happen? That's the story. Okay, it was a little silly, but... Go ahead. Can it arise in a silly thought? That thought was... was brought on by the Diamond Sutra. What if the thought comes when watching an anime or listening to an Alan Watts? We've heard a lot of way-seeking mind talks, right? There's all these different ways. Yeah. Was there any way that it kind of launched him into this life because it came from the Diamond Sutra? Well, the Diamond Sutra did it. The Diamond Sutra wasn't the Diamond Sutra. It was a person talking It was an ordinary person in the marketplace talking. And you say, well, they're talking to the diamond spirit.

[59:36]

Could they have been talking about a comic book? Do we have examples of somebody talking about a comic book and then somebody awakening? Yes, we do. It can be anything. Because the Buddha body pervades everything, so everything can be the occasion for where somebody opens to the Buddha body and lets this thought arise. The Buddha body would like this thought to arise in everybody at the appropriate time. But it may be that in some deluded consciousnesses, if it arises, it would, you know, either you could say, if it arises, they won't notice it. Or you can say, if it arises, they'll get scared and run away and start drinking.

[60:36]

A lot of possibilities. But it isn't just a diamond sutra. So he wasn't a traditional Buddhist monk or nun, but he did hear a traditional scripture. But that was also just singing in the marketplace. He could have gone to the next stall. So he was very unusual. If the monks in the monastery are chanting the diamond sutra and they wake up, it's not such a big deal. He's kind of unusual. They're just walking through the marketplace. So since he's unusual, but the example is traditional. When the untraditional hears the traditional, it can happen. When the traditional hears the untraditional, like I heard about, comes to my mind is, what's his name? St. John of the Cross? His meditation room was a closet.

[61:38]

So he lived in a closet meditating. But I guess there was a window maybe in the closet. Anyway, he could hear the noises in the street. And he heard some person singing as they're walking down the street. And that was what he heard when he woke up. And when he realized he wanted to be a bodhisattva, it was some street noise. Just a second, please. Just a second, please. I'm just putting aside a funny story. And if you want to hear about it later, I'll tell you. So I see. Angela and Rick. As you're sharing this morning, I just, my mind just keeps envisioning a massive ball of fire.

[62:39]

And not to touch and not to turn away. But just take care of this. Be compassionate with. Yeah. Very nice. So another way to say it is the sixth ancestor was walking through the marketplace and he heard the diamond citra and the He opened to the massive ball of fire. And he didn't touch it or turn away. He became the singer of the song. Yeah. So, just thought, Angela, I want you to know that when this thought arises, it might be like a massive ball of fire. Or it might be. Extremely, extremely cold. May I share one more thing?

[63:47]

Yeah. If it's as good as the last one. I'm just kidding. It doesn't have to be. Three years ago, I was sobbing to you about interactions I had with my nephew-in-law. and they'll be coming out again in May for my time's celebration of life. And so I felt that I was ready to have a compassionate conversation with him, and we did that. We had a lovely conversation, and we heard each other, and we supported each other, our thoughts, how we were feeling, and yeah, yeah. Not to give it a label, but the evangelical nephew-in-law.

[64:49]

I thought you were going to say, but the evangelical spirit sprouted in my mind. I don't know. Buddha pervasion? Evangelical? Yeah, exactly. It can be an evangelical nephew-in-law that you're talking to and you realize, oh my God, Buddha's here. My teacher has arrived. Wow. Thank you. It can be like that. So who Who was it? Oh, Rick. Yes, Rick. What do we mean by abiding? Well, we mean abiding. If we're talking about bodhisattva abiding, it's an abiding that doesn't attach to anything. So we abide in non-attachment, including we don't attach to non-attachment.

[65:55]

So it's a very subtle, it's in a form of abiding that's so subtle, that we name temples after not knowabiding. Does it also mean to be not caught by something? Yes. It means not grabbing and not being caught by. Both. Not being apprehended and not apprehending. Both sides. Not being caught by the sutras. Since it says, when this thought arises, they're no longer caught by, they don't apprehend, the Buddhist scriptures. However, they are devoted to the Buddhas, the bodhisattvas, the scriptures. Like we're being devoted to the scripture and we're watching out to not abide in it or attach to it, just be devoted to it. And that's the best way to take care of it. Linda and... Did you have a hand raised? Yes, Linda and Green.

[66:56]

The non-abiding, same thing as nothing to attain, right? Very similar, yeah. Can't abide, there's nothing but. Very similar. Different ways of saying it in English. There's wonderful Sanskrit words for it too. Kajakas told me this morning that when he first heard the name of this temple, he thought it was Noah's boat. Let's change it. Let's change it. Let's change it for a while to Noah's boat. Yeah. Except you don't have to come as a couple. I didn't ask my question yet. As usual, I'm slipping things in. Thank cause for that hearing. Thank cause for that hearing. Yeah, this morning I had an imaginary little conversation with you it went like this I was trying to get my act together get over here and You know and so I I thought I am just tired of trying I'm tired of trying and Then the conversation with you was good stop trying And then I said oh so they shouldn't come over here

[68:24]

And you said, stop trying and keep coming here. Was it an accurate representation of you? It was definitely, it was a good representation, but I don't know about accurate. I mean... Because I could also say something different. Yeah. With your help. You know, it's like my own dream, so I might as well interpret my dream, which is stop trying to obtain anything, to change things, and keep coming here to hear the teaching of nothing to obtain. When you were talking, I thought of quite a long time ago, I climbed up the hills at Green Gulch.

[69:28]

I climbed up. And I made quite an effort to get up to the top. And then I got to the top. And I was still walking, but it was effortless. But that wouldn't have impressed me if I hadn't climbed up. That effortlessness, the punchline of it is for a person who has just climbed. So the punchline of nothing to attain is for somebody who has been devoted to something and devoted and devoted and then realized, oh, this non-attainment is really great. And I had to really be devoted to realize how great non-attainment is. So you are devoted. And you're going to really enjoy non-attainment. It was too low for me to hear that last quote. You are devoted, and you will be rewarded with the joy of nothing to attain.

[70:31]

I got scared when you used that word, rewarded. You will be blessed. You will be blessed for your devotion. Yes? Thinking about this thought that you've been referring to. And I'm gonna try to express my question. I guess I'm wondering if that moment when it's articulated, like I think I heard you say, I don't know what language it was articulated in his mind. which made me think, oh, it's like a thought that's composed of words, like a conventional idea of a thought. Yeah, not necessarily. But I think, for me, I'm like, well, what about the arising that happens before that is articulated?

[71:40]

So there's like an arising in the body, an arising in the various doshas, right? Like there's layers of consciousness. Mm-hmm. And then it's like thought. Or is that... It could be that way, that the arising is... It's not a thought, but it's in thought. It arises in a consciousness. But what arises there doesn't have to be seen as anything other than everything that's there. So you're saying arising in thought... It arises in thought means it arises in a living being, in a sentient being. Sentient beings have thought. They have thought, feelings, emotions, concepts, and body. So in that field of that body and mind, this wish to become a Buddha can arise, but not necessarily saying, I want to be a Buddha.

[72:49]

And it can arise before anything's said. And then one might say, I wonder if that was the first thought of enlightenment. One might say that. Yeah. But you don't have to. The reason I'm asking is because my experience, I guess, is that it's arising more kind of like pre-thought, like pre-consciousness. You can say pre-thought, but it happens in the realm of thought because it's already surrounding the realm of thought all day long. It's always there. But sometimes it actually appears in delusion, in a deluded space where subject and object appear to be separate and where I appear to be in control of what's going on. or trying to control what's going on, or not in control of what's going on, and there's suffering and confusion, that's where it arises.

[73:57]

But the light of that thought is always shining on our deluded minds. But sometimes, causes and conditions, we realize it's right there. And it could be like, instead of I aspire, it could be like... Oh, thank you. And you don't even know what you're talking about. But you say thank you. And what do you say thank you to? You're saying thank you to this Buddha body appearing to you. This thought, this first thought of awakening appearing in your consciousness. But what you say is thank you. You feel There's nothing... You feel like, oh my God, there's nothing to attain. So you're sitting there and suddenly you feel like, oh, there's nothing to attain. Or you think, I want to be a bodhisattva.

[75:01]

Or you're thinking... Silence. Stillness. Can I share with you what I think, though? The thought is... I just want all beings to be free. Like, that's the thought. But for me, it's like a body experience. It's like an inclination. It's like a... It's just like a desire, but it's like a before thought. At least that's what I'm so far noticing. Yeah. So is there some problem with that? No. No, yeah. I'm just curious about... generation so you know I'm not sure what to say to that other than you're good with it I'm good with it and there's a this issue of this first time the wish to realize awakening arises in us and many people have not seen it yet but

[76:12]

it doesn't mean that it's going to, that they don't have seen it means all the ways that they've been able to think of it so far, they haven't seen that. But maybe it actually has arisen, they just didn't notice it. And if they had a witness, they might say, you know, I haven't seen that, I haven't witnessed that thought arising in this consciousness. And the witness might say, I remember yesterday when you did such and such. And they say, yes. Well, it arose then. And then they see it. But they didn't see it at the time. But their friend who witnessed them did see it arise in them. And then told them. And they say, oh, wow. So they didn't say it. Somebody else said it. So someone could say that to you in the experience you're talking about, someone could say to you, that's the first thought for you.

[77:19]

And in the story of the six ancestors, it just said he awoke. He didn't say what was going on in his mind. So they could say, oh, Green woke up without saying that they had this thought, I want everybody to be happy or free of suffering. So it's... It's completely unconfined how it appears. But the thing about it is that it sets the person in motion on the path. So like it's set the sixth ancestor in motion to ask a question. So the enlightenment is not necessarily what the person says is what's going on with them. what they think or physically feel. It's not that. What is it? It is... It is that they feel encouraged to follow this path.

[78:26]

So your experience, if that encourages you to follow this path, then maybe the first time that that happened to you, that was it for you. But it doesn't have to be those words. or felt in this part of your body. But it could be felt like in this sutra, these bodhisattvas feel with the hand on the head. It can be a lot of different things. But the thing about it is, the test of it is, are you now walking forward on the path? Okay? You're welcome. Justin While I was listening to his question, listening to your pastor, I tried to reframe for myself. You know, the word realization came to my mind and we use that word so much that sometimes it's, for myself, it becomes just very, feels very general but, you know, I reframe it for myself as a realization

[79:37]

within any thought or a new awareness or paradigm shift where whatever you're thinking about, whether my mind could be turning about work or a particular person, where all of a sudden that thought, again, whatever it is, becomes incredibly wonderful or gives a realization of fullness or total inclusivity in whatever that thought is. So it just, I was, I don't have any questions for you when she was saying that was a realization that occurred to me. Well, that sounds like a kind of awakening, a kind of realization. So what we're saying today is that the realization, when it first occurs, has a dimension of commitment. a dimension of resolve, a dimension of aspiration, a dimension of wish.

[80:45]

So in that particular situation you're describing, I didn't hear all the intentions and wishes to realize, for example, perhaps if that was Buddhahood that happened, the intention to realize that for all beings. Including a wonderful experience like that, a cheap thought. We wouldn't call what you just said a cheap thought. But the cheap thought can be where this resolve is born and this more... Did you say wonderful? What was your word? Yeah, incredibly wonderful. So there's an incredibly wonderful thought, and there's a cheap thought. It can arise in both of them. But an incredibly wonderful thought can be like, well, like, it can be like, okay, let's go see the teacher. Okay, let's, oh yeah, he was giving these talks, these wonderful talks, but he was actually heading to find out more about the teaching.

[81:58]

So it's not so much how wonderful it is, and it is wonderful sometimes, The question is, does it encourage you to practice? It's the spurring that makes it the first time you feel spurred. You could feel spurred for the first time in this incredibly wonderful thought or in a cheap thought. Even though I have cheap thoughts, I feel tremendously inspired. to not get rid of cheap thoughts but to liberate all cheap thoughts. I'm not going to get rid of any of them. I'm just going to set them all free. And all the beings who have cheap thoughts, they're my people. And the thought like you're having might encourage you to take on such a ridiculous path. Okay. Dina. Yeah, I found it tremendously actually valuable what you shared today because

[83:02]

I think probably a lot of us have had experiences of various realizations and for probably a lot of us it brought us onto the spiritual path. And I think one thing, I know you like to talk about the Bodhisattva path and I just have seen that the road is sort of paved with good intentions, and I've sort of seen people who think they're doing good things sort of for the world, but you know, what they think they are doing and what actually people experience in their life is different. And I would say that in some ways, when you completely know who you are, There is, of course, like, you know, because there is no difference. I mean, you know, I can see you, you can see me.

[84:04]

I mean, it's not like I'm sort of liberating other beings. Like, they are different, like, in the confidements. For me, you mentioned that I like to talk about bodhisattvas. It's true, I do. But I also feel called, I feel like I'm called to talk about them. So I'm doing it not just because I like, because I like to talk about other things too, but people don't necessarily want to hear what I have to say about other things. And I think it's because I haven't studied a lot of other things. I like to talk about mathematics too, but most people don't want to hear me talk about it. I'm not that interesting when it comes to something like that, even though I'm really interested and I like to talk about it.

[85:13]

So I do like to talk about bodhisattvas. However, in my process of talking about bodhisattvas, I'm also studying about bodhisattvas. I study all sentient beings. That's part of my job. And I studied the teachings about bodhisattvas. And so far, I just want to tell you, Dina, that so far what I found out about bodhisattva path is that they don't go around thinking that they're doing good. They don't. If they do, they confess that they're being self-righteous. They don't know what good is. They're devoted to a good that all the Buddhas can't measure. They're committed to this amazing good, even though they don't know what it is and they don't necessarily. They might think that thought, but then they say, sorry, I just had a thought that I did something good. Sorry.

[86:18]

I'm so glad you brought that up. This path is a path of vigilance for self-righteousness of those who are... committed to righteousness. I think for me, I also have to say what hits home for me is actually the path of Dogen. Dogen speaks to me because there is a tremendous honesty with yourself and basically looking at the self and what we believe we are, and being able to see kind of our self-image as a projection, and to be willing to be sort of radical, this instrument or this body, this form, being so radical, there with, if you want to call it the path or the inquiry into the true virtue of, I'm going to say it's self. For me, the radical is not about the true path.

[87:24]

It's like the radical is like being completely deluded. That's how the bodhisattva is. The radical gets down into the mud. And there he does this amazing practice. He aspires to this thing in the mud. He aspires to something that she doesn't even know what it is, but she still aspires to it. And I just had this thought, it's a new one, which is, do you have to be in the mud in order to aspire to such a good thing? And I think, yes, I think the Buddha is in the mud and inspiring people to have this thought. We are the mud. We are the mud. And the mud never was the mud. This Buddha body is not the mud, but it pervades the mud, which is not the mud.

[88:36]

Well, thank you so much. This is a wonderful start, inconceivably wonderful start to studying Book 17. Yeah. So thank you very much in case we never see each other again.

[88:54]

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