I want to acknowledge that I am looking at a screen, and on the screen are many images of living beings. I'm looking at appearances of each of you, and although I'm looking at an appearance of you, I'm also expressing my great appreciation and gratitude for the person, for the being that you are beyond this appearance. But I'm related to this appearance. I will look at these appearances, understanding that they're just appearances of you. They're not really you. So I honor the appearance of you, and I honor equally, not really more,

[01:00]

along with my honoring your appearance, I honor your actual real being. And I see Christiane has joined us. Welcome, Christiane. Did you hear that, Christiane? Christiane, can you hear me? Well, I see you. Can you hear me? Okay. So we have been exploring the ocean of the great Mahayana Sutra, the flower adornment scripture. We've been doing that for more than a year, and if you wish to continue, I will continue with you. And we were in the process of discussing the ninth book

[02:08]

in our last Know About session. We've discussed the ninth book, and the ninth book is titled, Radiant Awakening. Another translation is Awakening by Light, or Awakening by Radiance. So these are two different translations of the title, which combine the reality of the Dharma, which is that great true awakening is radiant. It's sending out light. Awakening sends out light to all beings. Buddha's awakening, true awakening, sends out a light which reaches all beings. And when it reaches them, there's awakening. But also, so we are awakened by light, but also the awakening that arises,

[03:10]

that not even arises, comes alive when we're touched by the light of wisdom. That awakening also then in turns, after receiving the light, it emanates the light. And emanating the light, others receive, and they also, in response, emanate the light back to us. So this sutra's teaching, it's a sutra of the infinite illumination Buddha, Vairocana Buddha, which means infinite illumination Buddha. But it's not the Buddha just sending out light waves, it's the Buddha receiving our light. So we send the Buddha of infinite radiance, the light of our own true nature, and the Buddha does the same with us. So we discussed that in the last session. And I think you can find a recording of that session

[04:13]

if you want to listen to the discussion of Radiant Awakening that we had last month. No, earlier this month. Is that document available, Amanda? Is that record available? Yes, it's available on the website and YouTube. It's available on the website and YouTube if you want to watch some discussion about Book Nine, Radiant Awakening. And I'm not in any hurry, I hope you aren't, but I thought still we might move on to the next book of the sutra. There's 39, and now I'm going to bring up, I'm going to open up Book Ten. And Book Ten has a wonderful title also,

[05:14]

which is, A Bodhisattva Asks for Clarification. A Bodhisattva Asks for Clarification. Did you hear that? And the bodhisattva in this Book Ten who is asking for clarification is Manjushri Bodhisattva, the bodhisattva of great perfect wisdom. So in this chapter, that's the bodhisattva Manjushri is asking, I believe, 10 sets or nine sets of several questions. In the previous chapter, the previous book,

[06:17]

Manjushri received this Radiant Awakening and then Manjushri taught us throughout the previous book, Manjushri was expressing, was speaking on behalf of the Buddha. Empowered by the Buddha's awakening, Manjushri offered wonderful teachings. And I imagine we'll go back to that book again later. So again, the previous book, Manjushri was doing the teaching. Now this great bodhisattva is asking questions. So I'd like to emphasize that this great bodhisattva asks questions. Sometimes people who practice for quite a while think that they're beyond asking questions. In other words, they're beyond Manjushri Bodhisattva. But no, we're not.

[07:19]

There's no end to our questions. And after Manjushri asks, and then Manjushri asks 10 great bodhisattvas, goes through 10 great bodhisattvas who he asks questions of. And the first bodhisattva he questions is called foremost in awakening. So the bodhisattva says, you know, what did he say? He said, yeah, he says, he asked lots of questions. And then the bodhisattva chief in awakening says to him, you beneficent one, benevolent one, you ask these questions for the sake of the ignorant. In other words, he's not asking questions to get something just for himself.

[08:21]

He's asking clarification for beings who are unclear. He's asking questions for all of us. And he asks wonderful questions. And each of the 10 sections has many questions embedded as one question. But today, if it's all right with you, I'd like to go to the third bodhisattva that he questions. So he questions two bodhisattvas. He asks, and he offers many questions. And then the bodhisattvas respond by giving 10 verses in response to the question. In this case, Manjushri's excellent question is, and now he's addressing chief or foremost of the precious. Foremost of precious, great bodhisattva.

[09:25]

And he says, sentient beings, yeah, sentient beings all equally have the four great elements, the four great physical elements which make our body. And they also, all sentient beings equally have and equally are without self or anything that pertains to the self. In this way, we are created equal. And what is our equality? We are made of the same stuff. We're all made of these various physical elements. But also, we are not in possession of a self or anything that pertains to it. We don't really have, we do not have

[10:29]

an I or a mine, a me or a mine. So that's what Manjushri starts out by saying. And then, so then he says, how is it that there are those who experience pain and those who experience bliss? We all are without a self or that which pertains to the self. And we all are without a self or anything pertaining to the self. We are also all, there are also those who experience bliss. There are those who have fine appearance, fine appearance like you people. And there's also those who are ugly. So no ugly people came to this particular assembly but it would be great if they did. Please tell, if you know anybody's ugly,

[11:32]

please invite them to come. But it also says, it doesn't really say beautiful, it says appearance of beauty and appearance of ugliness. There are those who appear that way. And not only do they appear that way, but our minds conjure up an appearance of them appearances of them which are beautiful and not. How can that be? If we're all made of the same thing, the same elements and also without a self, even though we do not have a self or anything pertaining to it, our mind and body together with all other minds and bodies conjures up a sense of self, a belief in self as existing on its own. We have minds that conjure that up. How is that?

[12:33]

How does that happen? Manjushri asks. He says, there's those who are internally good, those who are externally good. There are those who have little sensation and those who have much sensation. Those who experience little and those who experience thus. There are some that are very sensitive and some that are not very sensitive. There are some that receive a little and some that receive a much. Some experience retribution consequences in this life, in the present, and some receive consequences in the future. And all this is going on, all these differences are appearing to us who are basically very similar in that we all don't have a self and we all don't have any ownership of anything. And yet it appears that we do have a self

[13:36]

and do have ownership. How does that happen? And then the Bodhisattva answers Manjushri by saying, according to the deeds that are done, according with the deeds that are done, do the resulting consequences come forth. Yet the doer has no existence. This is the Buddha's teaching. How do all these differences among us appear before us? Well, part of how it happens, part of it, not all of it, is that according to karma, these results, these consequences appear, the consequences of much and little, good and bad.

[14:39]

And retribution. Now, the consequences come to be resulting from deeds that are done and there's no doer that's doing the deeds. There are deeds, but there's nobody in addition to the deeds doing them. So we, living beings, have minds which can take the shape of appearing as though there was a self and there was an action separate from the self. This is one of the illusions that we are given. We're all given this illusion of a self that speaks, a self that gestures, a self that thinks. And yet there is no self that thinks,

[15:41]

self that gestures. There is gesturing. There is speaking. And how come does this appearance of self and other, of actor and action, how does that come to be? Well, it comes to be in accordance with karma. So I would comment on that saying it's not that karma produces karma, it produces all the things that are appearing in the world, all these differences. However, the way the differences appear is in some intimate relationship with karma, with karma, with action. And action, the basic definition of action is the shape of our consciousness right now.

[16:43]

And also in the past, our consciousness had shapes too. And those shapes were past actions of our body and mind that appeared in our consciousness. And all those past actions, which appeared as a shape of a mind, had consequences. And now what we're experiencing is in accord with, or intimate with all those past patterns. And then also what's happening is in accord with our present action of our mind, body, and speech. So the bodhisattva goes on and says, it's like a marionette, a marionette that moves, that speaks.

[17:46]

And yet the marionette does not have the ability to speak. It does not do it itself. The speaking happens from other beings. It moves, but it doesn't move itself. Other beings move it. But it may look like the marionette itself is moving, but it's not moving itself. It's moved by others. It's other-powered. It's other-dependent. And what came to my mind now is a poem written by Dogen Zenji's teacher. And the poem is called, The Wind Bell. So the wind bell, and the poem is a mouth. The wind bell is a mouth hanging in emptiness.

[18:48]

And we are also like a mouth hanging in emptiness. And the wind bell, maybe not like us, the wind bell doesn't think it has a self. It doesn't think that it is something in addition to the wind. It doesn't care whether the wind's coming from the north, the south, the east, or the west. No matter what direction it comes from, it responds to the wind. And when it responds, no matter what wind is blowing, it equally sings perfect wisdom. Ding!

[20:01]

In reality, we are like the wind bell. And we sing pain, pleasure, now, future, ugly, beautiful, self, other. This teaching is to help us be more like the wind bell. It's not that we don't respond differently to the different winds. It's not that. It is that we have no partiality towards the east wind over the south wind. And when I say we, I mean we living beings who do not have a self or anything pertaining to it. Our experience is like our activity, the shape of our consciousness,

[21:10]

the shape of our consciousness, the shape of our consciousness is not operated by the self which appears there. However, the consciousness often has within it the delusion that the self is shaping the consciousness. And if we cling to this appearance of a self that's shaping its environment, this is suffering. And when there's pain, there may be a self appearing, an appearance of a self right nearby the pain,

[22:14]

but the self does not operate the pain. And the pain doesn't operate the self. The self and the pain together make a pattern, and that pattern is not created by either one of them alone, but the patterns do arise and come to be. This is how we have good and bad, pain and pleasure, and so on. And this is not how we have an independent self. This is about how we don't have an independent self. However, our consciousness does have appearances of an idea that the self is independent of everything it lives with. Our consciousness often has the delusion that the self owns all this going on,

[23:18]

that the self owns the present action. Like now, there's speaking and hand gestures appearing, but Manjushri's... but not Manjushri, the Bodhisattva foremost in preciousness is telling us that there is no such thing as a self who has the pleasure, who makes the pleasure. However, if we think the self is making it, and if we think the self does receive it on its own, then it's as though the self is suffering. There are many other, what do you call it, ramifications of this teaching, which might take the form of questions in your consciousness.

[24:19]

So you don't make the questions in your consciousness. I mean, the self that lives with you in consciousness, you are not a self, and yet the self is given to you. But it's not given to you by your own power, it's given to you by all the actions which you have done from beginningless time. And it's also given to you by all the people in the Great Assembly who are sharing with you the karma of language. The karma of language is also part of what makes the self appear, but my consciousness does not make language on its own. But it does receive language even before I knew how to use it. The something was appearing when people spoke English to me. So I feel like maybe now I have offered you enough for you to perhaps question this teaching,

[25:21]

question this teaching which was given to Manjushri and to all of us. And I see Hayley. Hi, good morning, Reb and Green, Oscar, Yuki, Christiane, Barbara, Luca, Amanda, and the Great Assembly. Good morning. I have three questions for you. How do you... This is... I just want to know, how do you like where you live now? How do I like it? Yes. I like it. I love Greenville. It's a beautiful place. Love means I'm so grateful for the ocean and the mountains of this place called the Valley of the Giant Green Dragon. I heard you moved north to a place...

[26:24]

I didn't. No, I didn't move. Oh, you didn't. Okay, now that's cleared up. That's a fallacy. Thank you. Number two, question number two. Which you didn't make up, you yourself did not make that fallacy. But your body and mind did conjure that fallacy. No, I heard it from somebody else that you had moved to a place up north. Right, so you heard that from somebody and then your mind made up that idea that I moved. Somebody told you I moved and then your mind conjured up the idea that I moved and it seemed like you believed it. I was mistaken. Okay, number two. I want to benefit living beings per my commitment to Sangha and to my Bodhisattva vow. I do lead a walking meditation in Berkeley and I wrote a book on walking meditations. But I really want to make sure I'm following through on my commitment.

[27:27]

What can I do? I guess my response, the response that I'm going to offer you or the response that comes up is it's really good to be careful to not be sure that you're doing the right thing. To know for sure that you're acting in accord with great compassion. It's good to be very careful not to fall into the trap of thinking that you are doing the right thing. However, the teaching is to be compassionate towards all beings and be compassionate towards your thought that you're really compassionate. I haven't had that thought but okay, I'll do that. Take it back. Be compassionate to the thought. How do I know to the question? How do I know that I'm acting in accord with the Bodhisattva vow?

[28:29]

How do I know that? That thought, that question, it's a good question. However, be very careful of it and do not fall into it and do not then go from that question to the statement, I know for sure that I'm doing the right thing. I definitely don't know I'm doing the right thing. That's a good given. So if you don't know it, then be kind to not knowing it. And being kind to not knowing it is the Bodhisattva way. Thank you. Now, if all of you do know it, being kind to knowing that you are being helpful, that also is the Bodhisattva way. Okay, third question is, what's the purpose of the orange hair who's in the election? What's the purpose? Yeah. It's a gift to you to practice compassion towards. Or as you say, it's a gift to all of our minds and bodies as an opportunity to practice compassion.

[29:32]

And one of the main ways to practice compassion is demonstrated by Manjushri in this book, which is to ask questions. What are you intending to do here? What is your wish? What are you saying? I don't understand you. Would you please explain what you meant by that? This is possible forms of karma, which is in accord with compassion. Okay, I'm having the compassionate act, I hope, of having postcard drive on Monday, if anybody wants to. Okay, thank you so much for your kind teaching. You're welcome. So good to see you. Good to see you. Enrique. Good morning.

[30:38]

Good morning, Enrique. Great assembly. I was wondering, how is it possible to know right and wrong if there's no self? Feel compassion for the actions of others. When there's no self, and it seems like we're just talking about appearances, and if they're just appearances, how do you make a judgment that this is something or someone who needs compassion, or that this action I have done is right or wrong? Mm-hmm. So, we do have a mind every moment, and in that mind, there is the appearance of good

[31:42]

and bad. And there is the appearance, in many people, of the wish to benefit all beings. And where do those appearances come from? They come from our past hearing about good and bad, thinking about good and bad, being involved in the actions, in good actions, and being involved in bad actions. All those give rise to our present appearances of good and bad, of pain and pleasure. And how do we know how to respond in a way that will benefit beings? We do that by paying attention to the appearance of good and bad, and paying attention with compassion. And if we pay attention to compassion, there will be a beneficent response.

[32:52]

So, paying attention to the things you said, asking about where do they come from, they do not come from, they don't have an origin. They don't have an origin. They depend on many causes and conditions, not just one origin. But causes and conditions have given us minds which do conjure up, which actually are the conjuring of our past karma, of the past karma of this being, but also the things that are appearing in this consciousness here, is due to not just the actions that have appeared previously in consciousnesses like this, but also your consciousness is also contributing to the appearances. And in this, these appearances in our mind, if we practice compassion towards these appearances, then an appropriate response which will benefit beings and liberate them from believing that the self is in control of the mind.

[33:58]

And this compassion towards this very complex mind is not made by this current complicated mind. But it can arise, it does arise with this mind, and in order to understand and participate, we have to like join that compassion, and do the practices of compassion. Which are to welcome, and so on, these appearances in the mind, these appearances which are our current karma. Practicing that way, the correct response will come, but the correct response does not think, I am the correct response, it is just the correct response. It is the correct beneficial action. But it's like the wind bell, it doesn't think, this is the correct action, and that's not. It's just compassionate towards everything.

[35:03]

And in that, we become free of our karmic consciousness, we become free of our karmic activity. But not by ignoring it, but by embracing it with great compassion. And once again, when we do that, we are like the wind bell, we sing wisdom, we sing wisdom, we sing wisdom, no matter what's happening, we come back with wisdom. And again, wisdom is not saying, this is wisdom. Wisdom is just a light. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Diane. Good morning, Rev, and thank you, and good morning, Great Assembly.

[36:08]

My question had to do with, I'm looking actually into the chapters, and I'm noticing that there's patterns that are repeated. The first one is, this is what work should be done. And there are recommendations about activities, observing, being intent on the virtues, and so forth. That's talking about the work that should be done. And then later on, the other, there's one about patterns repeated, this is the power of skill. And the different skills are described. And then the last pattern is teaching all beings, this is the practice. So my question is, who are these recommendations directed to?

[37:13]

They're directed to sentient beings who wish to realize true awakening for the welfare of the world. All those practices you just mentioned, from the previous chapter, Chapter 9, all those practices are directed to beings who are free of self, who do not attach to self, who do not attach to the appearance of self, and in beings in whom there is a deep wish and commitment to true awakening for the welfare of the world. That's what those teachings are for. Those teachings are for bodhisattvas. Bodhisattvas, not a self. But initially, they would have to be directed to individuals who think they have a self, or who believe that their self is... No, they're directed to bodhisattvas.

[38:15]

So it's directed to beings who wish to realize awakening, but it's addressed to those who still believe in an individual self. Some of the beings who wish for a complete perfect awakening for the welfare of the world, some of those beings are not clinging to self. But they're both bodhisattvas. Bodhisattvas all have the same wish. They wish for true awakening for the welfare of the world. And then that wish can be infinitely expanded. However, beings who still believe in self and are clinging to this illusion of an independent self, they can have this wish. And beings who are not clinging also have this wish. And the beings who are not having attachment to the idea of self, they're free. They're more free to do the work of attaining awakening. But the other people, we can start working while we still kind of are hung up on self.

[39:21]

But there's no way to know whether you're hung up on self or not, or is there? Or does it matter? It doesn't. There's no way to truly get a hold of the self. And there's also no way to get a hold of not clinging to the self. Those are both ungraspable. So then the effort is just to keep practicing regardless of whether you're hung up on the self or not. That's right. That's right. If and if you're hung up, then you practice compassion towards being hung up. And you read some, there's a section where it talks about, this is the practice that should be done. And those practices are practices to address sentient beings who are hung up. Categories of people who are in big trouble are stories of people who are holding on to the self, who believe it exists independent of other selves.

[40:28]

It's for people who believe they're independent of Donald Trump. Or independent of Kamala Harris. The teaching is for, those teachings are for those sentient beings who are suffering. But those teachings should also be a practice with people who are not clinging. And those who are clinging can still try to practice these practices for those who are clinging. So we who are clinging can practice compassion to those who are clinging. And we who are not clinging can practice compassion to those who are clinging and aren't. We can practice compassion with everything. However, when we're not clinging to the sense of self separate from other, our practice is unhindered by that grasping. Which comes and goes. Yeah. Except for some, it's just present all the time. So we're revolving in the direction of having compassion,

[41:31]

which doesn't come and go anymore. It's here all the time. But that takes a long time, a lot of practice, to have this, be present with that compassion nonstop. Thank you. You're welcome. Sylvia. I notice how throughout this appearance of you and the Great Assembly, I go through different stages in my being. And one of them, the first one always that arises is this great gratitude. It's like, oh my God. And emotion, and no thinking, and how grateful I am. And people I have seen not just recently, and people I've seen long ago, and your teachings.

[42:34]

So thank you very much. Yeah. And that gratitude appeared in the consciousness, but the consciousness did not make the gratitude appear. Probably not. It's a gift that appeared in consciousness. And then that gratitude which appeared in consciousness was reported to us. And then the thinking comes. And the thinking is also a gift. You could say hopefully, but you could also say according to the teaching. The thinking that's going on is the karma. That's the current action, is the thinking that's going on in the mind. And that is given to us, that's given to the consciousness, sponsored by all sentient beings, past and present karma.

[43:39]

Ours and all beings' beginningless karma has created a consciousness in which sometimes there's compassion, but there's always thinking. The thinking can sometimes be compassionate, and it can be in the form of thinking that there's gratitude here, which seems to be, I heard a report that there's gratitude in this thinking, or there's thinking there's gratitude. I heard a report, or there was a report. And so in the thinking, in the thinking, as the talk goes on about the question, Manjushri, Manjushri, and the answers, and it's like this immediate response, and it's like, how come he didn't also address the causes and conditions that make arise responsibility? Or like, if somebody, causes and conditions give me a weapon,

[44:45]

there is somebody that will say, I'm not killing. Even if causes and conditions create a war, I can say, I'm not playing this game. And I believe that that is possible, and that, how come it's not addressed in the... It is being addressed by you right now. You're bringing it up. Yeah. So you say it's not addressed, but you're addressing it right now. Okay. So now that it's addressed, there can be a response to you bringing this question up. So a lot of people feel like, if we do not own our experience, if it's not something we possess, if we don't own this action or that action, how can there be responsibility? So the answer is that no matter what's appearing in consciousness,

[45:51]

there is responsibility. So there was a report of gratitude appearing in consciousness, and there was a response to that gratitude of reporting it. That was a response. The consciousness has something happening, and there is the ability to respond to whatever consciousness is happening. If there's an appearance of war, it's possible that there's a responsibility when war appears. There's a responsibility when war appears. And one of the responses that is able to come forth is to be compassionate to the war and to lovingly say, I'm not going to hurt anybody. There's going to be no harmful action here. And that's another action that's happening. That can occur. Compassion can coexist with war. Yeah, I believe that.

[46:53]

And compassion is a response. And we living beings have responsibility. It means we who do not possess what's going on are able to respond to what's going on. And we will respond. We cannot make anybody else respond in a particular way. We cannot. However, we can respond in a way that shows other people how to respond in a way that shows other people how to respond. We can transmit awareness of our responding, which means that we can transmit awareness of our mind and body. But we can't control whether they're going to receive and enter the transmission. But it does happen that they do receive it on some occasions, and then they practice having a compassionate response because we do have the ability to respond compassionately

[47:57]

no matter what's happening. We have that ability. And somebody needs to teach us how to use that ability for all the different kinds of consciousness we have. But we do have a responsibility, but we don't possess it. It's an ability that we are. So you don't possess... All people have the ability to respond appropriately. Everybody has the ability to respond appropriately, but they have not yet learned how to activate it. Or rather, they have not related to what's going on in such a way. They haven't learned how to relate so that when this happens, they relate to it in a way, in a compassionate way, and the appropriate response arises. They haven't yet learned that. But they do have the ability to learn it, so they have the ability to respond appropriately,

[49:00]

but they haven't quite learned how to do it. Just like we have the ability to learn Spanish, but some of us have not yet learned it. But we have the ability. We have the ability to learn the compassionate response. And yes, thank you. Welcome, Luca. Hi, Reb. It's been a long time, and I'm very grateful to be able to see you. Same here. I have a somewhat rhetorical question, and that is, how do we have a self if we're the current expressions of a vast, beginningless, unfolding process of evolution?

[50:02]

We're just the current manifestation. Going back millions and millions of years of little creatures having little other creatures, and so on and so forth. And they developed neural cords to respond to an environment. And they had to figure out what was good and what was bad. And so they had to see the world out there. And we're the inheritors of that. That sense of karma going all the way back, that we're the manifestation of that process. So how can there be a self? We're just the current manifestation. Well, even though we're just a current manifestation, part of what is able to manifest is the appearance, the false appearance of an independent self is one of the flowers of this process. It's not real, but the process has led to the conjuring of,

[51:08]

for example, of a marionette that's actually moving on its own. It's not true, but the causes and conditions have created this illusion of a self who can do things by itself. For all those creatures, for every creature, it had to have a sense of, I am here, and the world is out there, and I must eat. I must survive. I must see the world as separate. But the world wasn't separate. Maybe not. Maybe there were some beings who didn't have that idea, but they didn't reproduce. We're the successors of the ignorant ones. It's the case. And so we have to have them. Ignorant ones are built for reproduction. Thank you. You're welcome. I don't know who's next. Maybe Basia.

[52:10]

If you say so. Thank you. Hi. So thank you for bringing this up. This is such a timely topic for myself. I've been struggling with this. Self issues and how to live life without. It seems so light if I really give up the idea that I have to do something about something in life. Yeah. Be kind to it and give it up. Yeah. And it can be there, but it's not tripping you up in your good work. Mm-hmm. I'm realizing that practice is really for me right now is giving up the notions that I picked up from my first religion, which was Christianity and then Buddhism and realizing how I adopted those narratives. But they are still narratives, right?

[53:15]

They are still patches of something on my clothing that is called self. So yeah, it is a mind boggling thing how to live the way you're speaking about. And the only thing I can think of is when I'm, for example, in conflict with my husband and suddenly I realize that something is in the way and I just step away from that. And suddenly things change because I drop my agenda and things change very quickly. So to me, this is sort of like an example of experimental proof that once the self disappears, a different reality is possible. You could say when the self disappears, a different reality is possible. And you could also say when the self is not grasped,

[54:19]

when the self is let go of, then a different reality appears, a much more helpful reality. Right. But the letting go of the self, the letting go of clinging to the self happens in the container of compassion. So we're compassionate towards this thing, it's so compassionate that we can let go of it, or that it can be released. So is it safe to assume that when we truly give up ourselves, there will be no suffering clinging to us either? Yes. And then we'll be able to show others that practice and then they will be free and then they can show others and so on. Okay, so one last thing that was sticking to my mind was that the way of the Buddha had changed my life, but in the moments of really tough situations

[55:20]

where the ego is really, really having a hard time, dug up in its spot thinking that it's right and anything else is, something else is wrong. It was the model of Jesus that, to me, his passion was in a way an ultimate showing, don't take yourself too seriously. And that pictorial representation helped me a lot in saying, okay, I think even though it seems like I'm gonna die right now, I'm gonna let go and see what happens. Would you agree that this is pretty well that kind of a view? Yeah. It's totality of everything that we think we are, that we need to let go. Thank you. You're welcome. Good morning, Rob and everyone.

[56:32]

Thank you for being here. You're welcome. I have a question. It feels to me like it's kind of a weird question, and I don't know if it's useful, but this sutra over and over again brings up for me the question of what do I mean and what do I understand by the words real and reality? And so I'm thinking this morning, in what ways is Manjushri real? And is the way that he's real similar to the way that you and I are real? There's all kinds of realities. How do we work with that? Well, again, one way to work with it is to point out that the way Manjushri appears is one thing, and the way Manjushri really is, is another. And in that way, we share that we appear a certain way and we are in reality another way. And those two ways are inseparable. So we're just like Manjushri in that Manjushri can have appearance,

[57:37]

and so can we. And we also are just like Manjushri that we all have the same reality. And that is the reality of that we are both appearances and something other than the appearance. Yeah. And it's a reality that the way the appearances manifest is inconceivable. Mm-hmm. And to understand that, we have to let go of the conceivable grasping of these appearances, or grasping these appearances the way they are conceived of. So this is conception about reality. But for me, it seems like there's literal reality, there's material reality, there's linguistic reality, there's metaphoric reality, there's social reality, and many more. And quite often, parts of them negate parts of the other realities.

[58:44]

And I'm just sitting in the midst of these various concepts about reality. And I kind of want to pick one, but I can't. Mm-hmm. I just can't. So, you know, that's a little unsettling. And the sutra brings that up over and over and over again. I wonder if you have any comment on that. The feeling, you say, it is a little unsettling, and it is this complex situation? Yes, yeah. So the unsettling is calling for compassion. And it, which you say is in the situation you call unsettling, it's also calling for compassion. What does compassion to that situation look like? It doesn't really look like anything. But it's called generosity. And generosity is not really an appearance, it's a reality.

[59:48]

However, it might look like you're saying welcome to this complex situation. Welcome to feeling a feeling of unsettledness, welcoming it, being careful of it, being patient with it. That's how it might appear. I feel like there's not much other choice. I mean... Well, there's not much other choice in terms of understanding what these appearances really are. In order to understand the real, we need to be compassionate to the apparent. So if you want to have this revelation of the real, you have to be compassionate towards the appearances. But people can do other ways, but then there's not going to be a revelation of the real. So for those who wish to realize reality, we have to be compassionate towards appearances. And just allow them to negate each other,

[60:54]

support each other as it happens. Yeah, allowing them will be present with being compassionate with them. Okay. Yeah. That's helpful. Good. Can I mention the Zoom reading group? Go ahead. So on the first Tuesday of every month, which happens to be this coming Tuesday, some of us get together on Zoom to read the Sutra. And as it happens, we're reading book nine just at this point. So we're almost in exact synchronicity here. And I'd like to invite anybody who's interested in joining us. It's at 7pm Pacific time till 8.30 Pacific time. Everyone is welcome. Just send an email to readingthesutra at gmail.com and I'll send you the link. And you can try it out. There's kind of a core group that keeps it going.

[61:55]

And it's very simple for somebody to come in and try it out and see if they like it or whatever. readingthesutra at gmail.com Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Good morning, Rev, and great assembly. Good morning. Thank you for these wonderful teachings. My question kind of goes back 15 minutes ago or so, and it's been morphed by all of the wonderful conversation. But there are a couple of questions really that are kind of haunting me through this. One is your reference to we have a mind,

[62:55]

we have a consciousness that is not I, not self, that we then fall back on an image, self image of a self. But really, is that is one question? Is that just our assumption, this this mind that we experience, we we start to call it self, that we then wrap a certain image of this reality as a self. And then another question is this self. And Danon and I have been talking about this. Thank you, Danon, for this conversation. This self that I experienced is a whole cast of characters that appear and disappear

[64:02]

under certain causes and conditions. I'm with my wonderful wife right now. And I probably project the self of her dutiful husband. I'm going to go out in the marketplace and buy some milk. And I'm going to project myself as a person using a credit card or cash. And, you know, the self comes and goes, changes, morphs, and isn't always present. And I fall back on this habit of a self under certain conditions. But many times, I'm just mind. I'm just consciousness and free of any compulsive need for projecting a self. So this notion of my being trapped in a self seems, and I'm not, I know you're not suggesting it,

[65:13]

but I have habitually kind of thought of this self as this monolithic edifice in my mind. And as I examine it, it's just, it's dharmas that appear and disappear, take on different colorations and then just disappear in time. And thereby, your wonderful imagery of the wind bell, timing, blowing in the breeze, making noise, seem to capture that notion of the self just being part of this drifting, drifting karmic environment that's somehow triggered, somehow

[66:18]

comes to expression by the causes and conditions, the karmic activity of the past of not only myself, but others. So it's just this chiming bell of bits and pieces of a self that's never the same. I'm never the same self, thank God. But it's a changing environment. I guess I just wanted to check that out with you, both the notion of my misapprehending, wrongfully assuming that this consciousness, this mind, is this self, and this

[67:25]

clarity that the self is also just bits and pieces of karmic consequences materializing depending on the conditions of the present moment. I hope that's somewhat clear, I hope. Yeah, it's clear. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hello, Nettie. Hi, Rev. It's good to see you. Good to see you. So, you know, you said something to Hayley in the opening around, and I wrote it down so I could remember it because it's very wise. And I think you said, it's good to be very careful that you are doing the right thing.

[68:30]

And then followed up, be kind to not knowing it's the right thing. And I just want to reflect back to you how meaningful that is to me today. I'm getting a little emotional here. I am struggling with some chronic pain and injury right now. And there's so much energy, and Jeff and I were even having a conversation this morning, there's so much energy around, am I doing the right thing to heal myself? So I don't think there's a question in there today. But I just wanted to say I'm going to sit with what you said to Hayley earlier about, like, maybe there's not a right thing. And be careful what I'm clinging to. Maybe there's not. And maybe there is. But you do have a wish, you do have sort of some yearning for knowing that you are doing the right thing. But I'm not suggesting get rid of the concern for doing the right thing, but be compassionate

[69:38]

to the concern for doing the right thing. And that compassion with the wish to know how to do the right thing will be sponsoring the right thing. And the right thing cannot be grasped. And really, the wish to know the right thing cannot be grasped either. But when you treat the wish to know what the right thing is with compassion, then you don't grasp it. And then you can open to what is the right thing, which is always right in front of you. But if you hold on to the concern for finding it, that will postpone opening to what is the right thing, or what is the appropriate thing, the way that's appropriate to being at peace with this, with your health, whatever it is.

[70:39]

So it sounds like what you're saying, too, is that leaning into compassion, peace, may lead to me finding whatever that right thing is. Or you being free of right thing and wrong thing, which is peace. Peace is not the right thing or the wrong thing. Peace is being compassionate to the appearance of the right thing and the wrong thing. So we heard at the beginning, so Manjushri say, how come there's the right thing and the wrong thing? How there's the good and bad? Well, that's because of karma. Okay, that's where this right thing and wrong thing comes from, karma. But that's not the end of the story. We can be compassionate to the appearance of the right thing and the wrong thing. And then we can be at peace with the appearance of the right thing and the wrong thing. But they're not really right or wrong, but they appear. And when they appear, they're calling for compassion.

[71:44]

And if we are wholeheartedly compassionate with them, we become free of the right thing and the wrong thing, and that will be peace. With right thing, with wrong thing, and with neither. Thank you. Thank you. Morning, Red. Morning, Honor. Thank you so much for your teaching and discussion. So, what's been on my mind based on our discussion today is, if I don't have a self, and

[72:46]

the teaching is always seemed to come back to compassion. And so, if I don't have a self, who is it that's being compassionate? And I have a sense of what compassion... Your message is breaking up. I'm not hearing you. Oh, my question... Oh, yeah, you're frozen, too. Can you... Also, some other people are frozen, too. Could be on your end. We're having technical... Yeah, you're frozen, too. I'm hearing a broken signal. I think it's on your end, Red. If you turn off the video, you might get audio. I think we temporarily lost Red.

[74:05]

Hello? [...] I can see you. I can see you, Armor. You can't hear me? Can you hear me, Red? I can hear you. I can hear you, Armor. You can? Okay. So, my question was... You can. Okay. I'm getting... All right. Well, sorry, we're having communication difficulties. Your question? My question was, if I let go of having a self, if I don't have a self, if that's an illusion of my mind, but the teaching keeps coming back to being compassionate. So, who is it that is being compassionate, if it's not me? And although I do have a feeling of when I am being compassionate, whoever that is,

[75:18]

is that something I can trust? Can I trust that I'm being compassionate? I would recommend for those who, for a being who wishes to be truly compassionate, I would recommend that you do not trust that you are, but trust that you wish to be. So, right now, I want to be responding to you with great compassion, but I do not have the thought, I am responding to you with great compassion. I just want to. And if the thought arose in my consciousness, I am being compassionate to Armor, I would be compassionate to that thought. I wouldn't believe it. I don't want to believe the thought that I'm being compassionate with you. But I do trust that I want to be.

[76:25]

But I never really know if I am. And you might tell me, oh, yes, you are being compassionate. So, then I hear that you're telling me that. But I don't disbelieve you, I just practice compassion towards your report that I am being compassionate. But if you report that I'm not, I aspire to be equally kind with you telling me I'm not being compassionate as when you tell me I am and cling to neither. I don't want to cling to I am being compassionate and I don't want to cling to I'm not being compassionate. That's what I trust. So, it comes back to what I'm hearing you say is it comes back mostly to intention, the intention to be compassionate. The intention, the aspiration. That's the thing. Just keep coming back to that. And then also listen to the teaching of how to be with that. And the teaching of how to be with it means that you don't hold on to this or that or that and this.

[77:36]

Or yes, compassion and no compassion. You don't hold on to that. That facilitates the aspiration of great compassion. Now, if your aspiration is to be unkind, then cling to everything and you'll be successful. I will ask, aspire not to, not to do that. Thank you. You're welcome. Hello, Rev. Good morning. Hello, Gayatri. It's lovely to see you and to hear your story. Be here with everybody after a long time. And my question might have been answered over the course of the last few responses you had.

[78:38]

But the thought that came to me when in this whole discussion is the vision of, and it might be from Dattamsaka Sutta of the Indra's net, with the jewels hanging on every node and reflecting every other jewel infinitely and so on. And if we take each of the jewels as what you call the shape of consciousness in that moment, of all the different things that come together and the illusion of a self in that moment, to know what, and you said appropriate or not appropriate action. One of the, I mean, the rule of thumb that I try to use is, okay, is it causing more suffering for me and others or less suffering for me and others, right? So that using that as the rule of thumb to say, oh, this is an appropriate action or not.

[79:38]

And to be compassionate in that moment with what is in the present moment, just to be aware and to be compassionate with what is. That might give me a way to respond in that moment. But given the vastness of this web and the unpredictability and ungovernability of it, it is not possible for me to know if what I'm doing now is actually going to cause suffering or not in the future of some other self on that web at some of the future time before that. And so in that moment, and I don't know, you might have answered this question. I think it's the idea that you don't cling to an idea of what is going to be suffering or not suffering or appropriate or not appropriate, but to simply be compassionate with what is in the best way possible.

[80:41]

Is that kind of what you were saying, Reb, knowing what I know now, which is very limited, of course, very, very limited, given the complexity of this web, just to act in a way that says, okay, the least amount of suffering for me and others in this moment. And that's all I can do. And to not cling to an idea of what is going to happen in the future or not. And also don't cling to what is the best, what is the least harmful way to be. Don't cling to that either. But if it appears, respect it, be kind to it, and don't cling to it. And the way you don't cling to it is to be kind to it, that you're not grasping it. But here's the thought, how can I be unharmful?

[81:44]

That's a thought to be kind to. But if you had the thought, how can I be harmful? You should treat that the same. Be kind to the thought, how can I be harmful? Like if a child came to you and said, Gayatri, I'm thinking about how to be harmful to my sister. So if you practice compassion with this being who's asking you for advice about how to be harmful, then you can both let go of all harmful activity and also let go of how good that would be. Yeah, I think, yeah. I think that's what I heard you say to Nettie. And yeah, that makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Welcome, Gayatri. Thank you. I have a question in regards to the mind and body.

[82:59]

And my understanding of the teaching and your teaching is that everything conjures in the mind and body. Is that correct? Everything conjures in it? Yeah, it conjures. Not so much conjures in it, but everything conjures it. Everything conjures. The whole universe is keeping running. To sentient beings. Each sentient being is given, the whole universe gives rise to each sentient being. Okay, and that, yes, I can see that. Everything conjures it. Yes, and also, since everything conjures it, everything is in each little thing that is being conjured. Since it conjures it. The whole universe conjures you right now. And you right now includes the whole universe.

[84:03]

I have to... There is a thought, and the thought rejects this other fact that you're saying, that universe is included in this conjuration. Right. The whole universe. The rejection, that phenomena called rejection, is also conjured by the whole universe. So, the rejection that the whole universe is conjuring is also another conjuration of the whole universe. And the rejection that we include everything is also including everything. Nothing can not be inclusive, and nothing can be not included, including disbelief of that. I think having that, what I am questioning and what I'm hearing,

[85:27]

having that, what I hear and what I question, being that, not having it, being that, it literally stops everything. It really brings everything to a pause. It's like a pause, a pause conjures as a result of the question I ask and the respond that was brought to that question. The question that was asked and the respond of receiving, being the totality of that, is what brings it to a pause. That's something I'm just noticing. Thank you for reporting the noticing.

[86:30]

Thank you. Morning or greetings, wherever you are. Thank you for the teaching and I appreciate the questions and the responses. And I wanted to check out a thought I had listening to the questions about right. I have a feeling of them, one of the basic teachings, and therefore there could not really be, can you hear me? There really is not an exacting right or wrong because everything's changing and

[87:33]

the response exists in a consciousness perfumed, maybe we could say by compassion or generosity, which is why you can't live in right and wrong, because it's continually like the wind blowing is changing. Does that make sense? So it's always a unique moment by moment response in the context of how you would like to be in relationship to what's arising. Mm-hmm. This section is saying, since that's so, how come there appears to be the arising of good and bad? The answer is because of our karma together. So our karma has given rise to something that really does not exist.

[88:39]

And so if we wish to aspire to compassion, does that transform karma? Is that what your, what Manjushri's? I think it does transform, but it does, for the complete transformation, it requires not just aspiration but the practice of it. So I can aspire to be kind but not be ready to be kind. So I need to aspire to be compassionate and actually practice it. But even aspiring changes everything. Because everything changes. Is that right? Well, yes, not because everything changes, everything changes, and this particular aspiration changes things in accord with the aspiration.

[89:47]

If I don't have the aspiration, that also causes a transformation. If I aspire to harm people, that transforms. If I aspire to be kind, then that transforms. Everything's transforming. The question is, what type of transformation am I wishing for, and what practices go for that type of transformation? So I wish for a transformation which frees people from suffering, and what practices go with that? Okay, thank you very much. You're welcome. So there is, what do you call it, some little bit of difficulty with the internet, but I think somehow we all were able to tolerate the difficulties with compassion. It looks like everybody was really compassionate with our technical difficulties.

[90:55]

So now maybe we can have a technical support for saying goodbye and saying thank you for the teaching of Manjushri.

[91:13]

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