Kosho asked me, he said, about this, whenever a monk comes, he was wondering if that would apply also to nuns, or lay people, or anything. So this, whenever a monk comes means whenever anything comes, right? Whenever anything comes. whenever the great white waves come crashing in, he would immediately face the wall. Whenever death comes, he would immediately face the wall. That's about all there is to practice. And still they say, now, luzu, unable to end matters, brought on examination by this gang of old guys.

[01:04]

So the great contemporary of his, said how he usually teaches people. And then he says, that way will go on till basically never. He will go on till never. Is there no year of the ass? There's no year of the ass. He'll go on to a time that there is no such time. That's how he'll go on. So some people think he was criticizing him. As a matter of fact, one monk said, was Nanchuan chiming in words of agreement or words of disagreement? And the commentator of this book, Won Sung, Won Sung, by the way, means 10,000 pine trees.

[02:11]

10,000 pines says, I say, half blocking, half covering. You can't fool him a bit. And Siyuyan Jur said, why go to such trouble? And again, Ten Thousand Pines says, I say, this is already setting up a model, drawing a likeness. And Siyuyan also said, if a monk comes, what is seen? I say, says Ten Thousand Pines, you still don't know how few they are. And again, Tzu Yan said, one should know that time. And again, Ten Thousand Pines says, if it were Dao Yuan Ming, who was an ancient poet, he would furrow his eyebrows and go right back.

[03:22]

And again, Tzu Yan Jur said, I am not thus. Before the womb it is impossible to understand. If you understand, I'll break your waist." Ten Thousand Pines said, "'Master, who would you have receive the blow of your staff?' Why didn't Luzhu put an end to matters? Wasn't that good enough? Why did he bring on the examination of these kinds of people? What are they talking about? To make matters worse, I'd like to read the next paragraph or two. Another old guy named Lushan said,

[04:25]

If old teacher Wang, that's Nan Chuan, had seen him then, he'd give him five on the back with fire tongs because he knew how to let go but not how to gather in. Ten Thousand Pines says, even getting up early at dawn, already there's someone who's been traveling by night. And Srenshaw said, if I had seen him then, I too would have given him five fire tongs. Ten Thousand Pines says, disturbing the spring breeze, never yet cleansing, never yet ceasing. Yunzhu Yang said, Both Luo Shan and Xuan Sha said this.

[05:42]

Are they the same, or is there a separate reason? Ten Thousand Pines says, Together it amounts to ten fire tongs. Yunzhu also said, If you can pick it out, I'll allow, as your Buddhism has some direction, 10,000 pines says he should be given five fire tongs. So what are fire tongs? Like a stick. Like a stick. So we could understand this as he's just being beaten five times from tongs. So we know that it's good to practice wall-gazing, right?

[06:58]

That that's our practice. And so, of course, it's nice that somebody would do that no matter what happened. And... So some people seem to be saying that if Nan Chuang was there and he saw Lu Zu turn around, that Nan Chuang would have hit him in the back five times. That's what it sounds like, doesn't it? Other people are not so sure that Nanchuan disagreed with them. And Ten Thousand Pines said somehow Nanchuan couldn't end matters and therefore brought on this kind of examination. And one more paragraph before the verse.

[08:09]

People, you look. As Nanchuan belittled Luzi in this way, letting Changqing, yet Changqing said, this is retreating into oneself and conceding to others. Luzi held down the barrier crossing, yet Leshan said, He knows how to let go, not how to gather in. All this is spreading the net before the fish, drawing the bow after the brigade is gone. Then look at Tien Tung. What special approach has he made? But before we look to actually look at Tien Tung to get reinforcements, What can you do with this?

[09:10]

Well, one thing that I was thinking about in terms of Lutzu not being able to finish things is that that is our fundamental situation. It would seem that to finish things would mean to save all beings. That's what finishes things. That's one way to hear it. And also, if you finish things, you don't invite examination by a gang of old guys. Being examined by old guys is, well, that's what led to this commentary, which is such a problem to you. How are they so sure he didn't finish? If you finished things, what would they say? Maybe the same stuff.

[10:17]

Do you think so? Maybe the same stuff, but would these stories that finished things have been interesting for these other people to talk about? Do you think so? How would they know? I was just only hearing about it, not even knowing about it. Well, you know, how do you... Yeah, so how can you tell when you hear the words transmitted from some other place what actually happened? Hmm? You don't know what happened, no. But you have the words, and you can test by the words at a distance. It's like that. But anyway, when Nanchuan hears the words of describing Luz's practice, somebody's standing in front of him at that time, so he's hearing the words from this person.

[11:26]

But even in this chapter, look how much the words have changed. How do you mean, what words have changed? Well, there's all different opinions. Yes, there's all different opinions, right. And again, we have the problem in Zen, in the Zen way of using words, is that the most common rhetorical device is irony. So... And also it is said that a teacher should not finish the work because if a teacher finishes, the successors have no work to do. And you see here, I think quite clearly, these people did not finish. You people have plenty of work. And you're not necessarily happy about their kindness. Well, maybe you are.

[12:33]

I don't look like it. Is it... If Tzu is teaching us here, are they saying they would have been stronger in their reaction than... Nanshwan would have done. Who's they? The two people that are commenting here. They would have made the statement for Lut Suu more strongly than Nanshwan did. I mean, then, yes, to get Lut Suu's point across more clearly. Who would have made the point stronger? In the paragraph, I can't pronounce the names too well. The two that would have hit them Yes. Lutzu five times. Yes. They are saying we would have even made our case stronger than Nanshuan made to get Lutzu's point across.

[13:38]

Nanshuan didn't go even far enough that by not ending We have, by leaving these open, we have to be willing to bear a lot of burden. Well, I agree with what you said about by leaving things open we have to bear, or we have to, not we have to, but then we can respond. I don't know why you think they're saying something stronger than non-Tuan. You think that what non-Tuan said in that saying, I teach this other way of, you know, asking people to attain before the empty eon, you think that's not as strong a statement as saying I would have hit him five times? Is that what you're saying? That was what I was saying. Now, I get at it from that up in... Baufu was talking about him... How is Lutzu so discreet in getting his teaching across? We can do it without doing anything.

[14:46]

Lutzu's being said... Who says he's discreet? Baufu. Baufu says he's discreet. I say, how does Baufu say the words being discreet? Baofu asked Chongqing, in Luzi's case, where was he being discreet? So do you people see Luzi as being discreet? It's a funny word. I don't know what you mean. Discreet. Didn't enter into it. You know, I didn't look up that Chinese character, but what does discreet mean? Subtle. Does it mean subtle? Huh? It sometimes means secret or it also means particular, right? Discrete as opposed to continuous, right? A discrete function is a function that happens at particular points. But particular points also has the meaning of being particular and careful and even somewhat reserved, right?

[15:53]

Polite and somewhat secretive. Sometimes now they say when people are contemplating having an illicit affair, one of the people says to the other one, well, will you be discreet? In other words, will you keep this in this container? Will you keep it in this particular situation and not spread it, make it into a continuous activity? Right? So he was being discreet. Nanchuan was being discreet. Luzhu was being discreet. Was Nanchuan being discreet? He was offering up more information, describing discreet actions. He was offering more information about Lutsu? Explaining how he would have done it, as opposed to just being so discreet. He says that he's more overt. Well, he says that he asks people, that he tells people to get mastery before the empty eons, so he's more explicit in his instructions?

[16:58]

He's more explicit. Do you understand that when Lutsu... I already... I told you a little bit about what facing the wall means, so I'll ask you tonight, is it clear to you that when you face the wall, you're making an implicit instruction to people to realize before the empty yin? Do you understand that? Does that make sense? Now, does anybody not understand that? Thanks for saying so. So do you know what realize before the empty yin means? No. It means to realize before you heard about Zen. It means to realize before your parents were born. Do you know when that is? Right now. Forever. Forever. It's forever and it's for never. It's like before you think, that's when you realize. The time before you separate yourself from other people, right?

[18:09]

That time. But that doesn't mean go backwards. It means every moment there is a time before you think. Every moment there's such a time. But it's not really before, in a sense of like, now you don't think and then you do think. At the same time you do think, there's a time before that. Before means there's somebody who's not thinking at the same time there's somebody thinking. That's where you realize. It doesn't mean you mess around with the one who is living after the empty eons. or you're messing around with the one who has objects of thought. You don't mess around with that because that's more of that same person. Got that? Everybody? Did you get that? Right. Now, we get up earlier, but there's somebody who gets up earlier.

[19:11]

That is a real, I mean, total chill. A really cool cat is scouting things out before we even hear the alarm clock. Before we even wake up early. Right. From the hall in the far-reaching cold. That's where Namjuan explicitly instructs his students to realize. Or, before Buddhas appear in the world. Buddhas appear in the world to tell us to go back and realize the Buddha way before they came. Before they came, we couldn't believe that we didn't have to do anything special, so they You just came in late, huh?

[20:15]

John. He's a proud owner. This cat wants to take the class. He's facing the wall. Okay, so Nanjuan's elaborating or making explicit what we mean by wall-gazing, by facing the wall, okay? We've been talking about that for a while. But in his discrete presentation, he allows an opening for people to come in and mess around with him. So we get all this richness from these other guys because he makes himself available. Now, when I think about this, I think, boy, that is really courageous.

[21:23]

I don't know if he could have sewed it up so they wouldn't have anything to say, but he didn't. So he evokes all this comment. all these guys are rushing in to say, oh, neat, let's say something about this. He's so discreet, we can babble. Like we can say, I would have hit him. Or I teach people this way. But then he also says, although I teach people this way, he says this other thing, that Luzhu will go on, that Luzhu that way will go on till never. Well, that makes me think that although he's telling how he taught, maybe he's saying, although I usually teach this way, Luzu actually beat me to the punch. You should know what happens to cats. Right. I told you. Shall we turn to Case 9?

[22:25]

I think we'd better if this cat would know about Case 9. We might turn him off his end completely. So more than ever tonight, it sounds like Lange is giving the highest confidence to Lusevich's case. Yeah, it's possible that he's saying that. He's saying, I'm a pretty good teacher and I usually teach people this way, which is a good way to teach people. That way of teaching people is now echoing through the halls of all Zen temples. You hear this all over the place. People say, you know, realize before the empty eon. The mountains and rivers of the immediate present are the manifestation of the way of the ancient Buddhas. abiding in their normative state, they have culminated the qualities of thorough exhaustiveness. Because they are events prior to the empty eon, they are the livelihood of the present.

[23:26]

So there you hear, many centuries later, still talking about non-chuan's way. It's a great way. But maybe he's saying, but Ludzu, he's there before I even started talking. Copying Bodhidharma. So maybe Nanchuan's really praising Luzi. Now, could it be these other people are not, when they say they'd hit him? Is it possible that it's considered an honor to be struck by a master, to bring you back, not struck in a punitive way, but in a paid attention way? If you're being struck by a master, yes, it is an honor. The question is, is this a master striking you? That's the tricky part. So I think it's nice that these days everybody's under suspicion, so nobody's hitting anybody anymore.

[24:27]

There are no more Zen teachers in China or America. But maybe there's Zen. I don't know. But still, one more thing is, what is, and then 10,000 Pines says, why does Bao Fu say the words being discreet? Unless you know how to discern spring and autumn on the budless branches, it is difficult to know, it is difficult to pose this question. What question? Why is he being discreet? Where was he being discreet in this case? I thought the question he was posing is why Balfour said the words being discreet. Yeah, right. Didn't he ask a question then? Yes. Yeah, so 10,000 pines... Isn't that the question that it's saying it's difficult to pose right here?

[25:36]

Where is he being discreet? No, why are those words being used? Or why is he using the words being discreet in his question? Yeah, right, that's what he's saying. He's saying, unless you can do this, it would be difficult for you to have said that. Now, it's already been said, so you got beat to the punch, but in other words, he's saying that unless you can tell spring from autumn on the budless branches, it might have been difficult for you to ask about why was Luzi being so discreet? Isn't he complimenting Baofu by saying he's very insightful? Yes, he is. Only somebody that really saw into this. He's contemplating Baofu, and nobody in this class asked about why Luzi was being so discreet. Maybe you didn't because you didn't want to just copy Bao Fu.

[26:40]

But anyway, think about whether you could have asked that question. But here comes another part is that Chongqing then says, you know, Bao Fu asked Chongqing and then Chongqing says, retreating into oneself and conceding to others. Not one in a thousand does. Was Lutzu doing that? Retreating into himself and conceding to others? Well, now we have a difference of opinion here. Talk to Lloyd, those of you who think he was. How was that gathering in and letting go? He went beneath them. Do you see, do you see conceding, retreating into oneself and conceding to others like letting go and not gathering in?

[27:45]

I see a prophecy in which you mean if oneself is gathering in. Uh-huh. I can't, I can't see that as letting go. Well, no, but you could turn it that way, that letting go and gathering in correspond to conceding to others and retreating into oneself. Well, do you see anything like that going on here? And Dwoy doesn't, right? I didn't think that's what I said. Oh, I didn't say you said that. You just said no. That's what you said, right? I didn't see it as he was retreating from people. Well, if you retreat from people and concede to people, you're not retreating from people.

[28:49]

You're relating to people. Exactly. So that's what I'm saying. I mean, that's what he's saying. He's saying to relate to people and also concede to them while simultaneously retreating in yourself, this is quite a feat. How do you relate to other people in a conceding, you know, giving to them and recognizing them, acknowledging them, while at the same time coming back here and checking this one out and, you know, being with yourself? Or another way to say, concede to others as a way to retreat into yourself, or as a way to recognize yourself, recognize others. This is the great dynamic, right? Yeah, it doesn't mean going away from others. It means to do both at the same time. You said last week that don't forget, forgetting the self and not carrying the self forward. Yes, uh-huh. And conceding to others is when all things advance forward and confirm you.

[29:58]

But that also is to collect yourself and be yourself or to be collected. Well, we're doing pretty well. Maybe we're ready for the verse now. I'll just say one more thing about that retreating once up. It seems to me that Luke, when he saw a monk coming, would immediately face the wall. It doesn't necessarily mean that every time he was approached or circumstances arose around him that he would necessarily assume the Zazen position. No, it doesn't mean that. It means that he would act appropriately under all circumstances. Right, and that's called wall-gazing. That's called wall-gazing. That's called immediately wall-gazing. Again, if it's immediately wall-gazing, you don't have time to turn around. Immediately wall-gazing, you do it before you turn your body. Right?

[31:00]

Oh, there's Jesse. Jesse. So I take that word immediately seriously. That as soon as something happened to him, he would immediately practice wall-gazing or face the wall. So he's up in the middle of the night before the alarm goes off. As soon as anything happens, he's traveling by night. And so, basically, I say to you, when everything happens, day or night, be traveling by night. Don't be an early bird. Be before the early bird. Is there any other choice? Is there any other choice? This is called right effort. This is what we mean by effort, this kind of effort. So there is choice, but this is not a choice being known.

[32:02]

However, choice is going on all the time, but this is not a choice being known. It is a matter of recognition. It's a matter of recognition. That no matter what's going on, you recognize that somebody's traveling by night, right now. Can you, can you, can you, can you say something? I'm trying to. What is Lu Zu doing when he's not wall-gazing before he immediately? Oh yeah, Koshio asked about that too. He said, what if nothing comes? Is he still wall-gazing? I don't think... If nothing's coming, you don't walk there. And if nothing comes, you don't have to recognize that one is traveling by night. When does nothing come? I don't think there is such a when. There's no... This is not a problem. When nothing comes, there's no problem because... That's the year of the ass. That's the year of the ass.

[33:06]

This is not a problem. We don't get angry at anything. We don't get selfish. We don't get worried. We don't mess around when nothing comes. It's when things come that we get all kind of confused. That's when we get disturbed and we think, oh, God, what is appropriate now? Well, this is already way too late. You've got to recognize as soon as something comes, immediately you have to recognize this one traveling by night. It's not really a choice, and yet there it is. That's what you've got to do. You have no choice. Does the wall-gazing occur before or after an intention? Does it occur before or after an intention? Prior. Prior. It's before anything. Or any mental action. It's before any mental action. It's before human consciousness is born. it becomes too late very quickly. That's why we practice in Zen being on time.

[34:11]

And we do that so that we can remember the one who got there before we started to come. Anyway, Luzo somehow lets us learn all this by his kind practice. Somehow like... He just does his thing and then other people give all these lectures for him. He stays nice and pure, you know. He gets all these other Zen masters to say this stuff for him. This is kind of a nice way to practice, although people may not know that you're getting any credit for this. This is not the kind of practice for somebody who wants to be rich and famous. But it really does make the Dharma wheel turn, if you can practice this way, get everybody else to do the work for you. It's kind of neat if you don't have any attachment to self. It's called, you know, letting your students do the work for you.

[35:17]

Okay, and then comes this verse. I just had one question on that. He knows how to let go, not how to gather in. I guess I didn't understand it in the context of what we were just talking about. Well, one criticism could be that he knows how to... Well, it could be... Yeah, you could say, well, this guy's saying either that he knows how to concede to others, but not how to, you know, recognize himself. He could be saying that, right? Right. It's similar to the saying, he knows the sharpness of the owl and not the squareness of the chisel. Yeah. It's just like that. But then what does he say? He says, I say, even getting up early in the morning, already there's someone who's been traveling by night. That's what 10,000 Pines says to that commenter.

[36:23]

It's kind of interesting from the perspective of metaphors that in Chinese classics, the letting go, letting things loose is an activity appropriate to spring, and the gathering in is the activity appropriate to autumn. So it connects with the Wansong's commentary on Wotsu's previous remark. Which one? The remark about, unless you know how to discern spring and autumn, the butler's branch. Lutsu is a budless branch, and you can discern spring and autumn on him. But they're not the same. They're two different functions of his budlessness.

[37:26]

So that's another characteristic of the bodhisattva. The bodhisattva raises a lotus bud, and all beings are the opening of it. So here, falls right in place, right? In plainness, there's a flavor. Or plain water has flavor. Subtly transcending thought and expression or subtly transcending the senses. So in this flavorless teaching, or this, not flavorless, in this plain practice that we have of facing the wall, there's a flavor. What is the flavor? What is the flavor of wall gazing?

[38:30]

Well, No. When monks come, we immediately face the wall. What is the flavor of this response? Compassion? You're getting warmer. Being the other person. Liberation is the taste. Isn't liberation the taste of wall-gazing? What is the taste of liberation? It transcends thought. It transcends the senses. It transcends all flavors. That's what liberation means. It means it can happen whatever the taste is, whatever the flavor, whatever the color, whatever the thought. That's the taste of this, that's the flavor of this plain practice.

[39:49]

That's the flavor of traveling by night. Freedom is the taste of traveling by night. Don't you think so? But it's hard to remember to travel by night when all these day trips are being offered. We have early morning day trips, late morning day trips, mid-morning day trips, noon day trips, early afternoon, middle afternoon, late afternoon, early evening, evening and late evening trips offered. It's hard to remember that one way back there before any of them. And then in that very plain dark practice to remember then and taste that taste of freedom. Isn't that the taste of traveling by night?

[40:53]

Can't you taste it? On the tip of your brain? Tip of your words? Where do you find one? Well, if you want to, you can sleep on the lawn outside my house. It's cold, though. My wife won't let you get in bed with us. Taking all those day trips and going into the day trips takes you into the night. What? Taking all those day trips is how you get into the flavor. You have to get through these day trips. Like, each comment on the teaching takes you solely into the flavor of the teaching. They have to be done. Seeing the open snakes has to be done. Well, you know what? That's right. If you go all the way into any of those day trips... you'll wind up traveling at night. And even whether it's a mid-morning, early morning, or late afternoon day trip, if you go all the way into the day trip, you fall into that traveling by night.

[41:57]

That's right. That's why this kind of plain practice is an equal opportunity employer. You can do this plane practice anytime, on any occasion. The criterion is you must be thorough. You can't go part of the way. You can't say, you can't think that this is a less great opportunity than having Shakyamuni Buddha sitting right in front of you giving you personal instruction in meditation. There's no better situation than this one to realize. When is sitting in the zendo facing the wall a dead room? Pardon? When is sitting in the zendo facing the wall a dead room?

[42:58]

Always and never. Then you don't do it immediately. When you don't do it immediately is what? Always or never? Is that a choice? The nice thing about sitting in the zendo, theoretically, is that you might have a better chance to remember this opportunity to travel by night. These events in the zendo, these events in the meditation hall while you're sitting cross-legged are now events after the empty yin. They are things that are happening now in this world of your human mind. But these events, these forms that are appearing are primarily there to teach you to learn this backward step and go back

[44:08]

Which means, as Greg said, that you completely use this opportunity. That you trust that in the plainness of this period of meditation, this ordinary old example, example, Tuesday morning, November 3rd, 1992, on this fateful day in American history, when he said to us in the morning, in the beginning and in the middle and at the end of that period, you can do a prayer. And you can remember to travel by night and then see what that person wants to have happen in this world.

[45:16]

And make that prayer. Subtly transcending the senses, subtly transcending thought and expression, continuously seeming to exist before any sign. That's the same thing. Continuously seeming to exist before any sign, in other words, traveling by night before any sign, before the alarm clock goes off. Unbending like an idiot, his path is lofty. No choice. Unbending, an unbending practice. What's the unbending practice? Getting a wall, always. Whenever anything happens, unbendingly, ridiculously doing the same practice, being extremely rigid about this, of course you're being inconceivable flexible.

[46:18]

But in a way, you're being rigid. You're not bending. You're always facing the wall, no matter what happens. In other words, you always realize prior to the beginning of time. In other words, you always travel by night. You remember traveling by night. Whenever you see the face of anybody, you remember traveling by night. There's somebody traveling by night. You remember that. No matter what they're saying to you. And it's very difficult sometimes when they say certain things to you. Very difficult. Like, you are one who allows the such and such. You allow the priest. You allow the husband. you're a disgrace to this, you're a disgrace to that, or you are a great such and such, you are a wonderful, magnificent such and such. At that time, it may be difficult to remember there's one problem by night. To be unbending, like an idiot, like somebody who couldn't even understand what they were saying, so you couldn't be distracted from this unbending night travel.

[47:28]

This path is more Another translation is, this way is precious, though seemingly massively foolish. Sometimes, you know, I'm not saying I'm that way, but sometimes when I think about practicing the way I was supposed to practice, I think, am I being a fool? This is awfully stupid. It's guys like this that lead me on. Yes? How easy was it before? Did I just ground an archetype?

[48:33]

Jade, when a pattern is carved, loses its purity. Ten Thousand Pines says, in the rock is hidden jade. It is cut out by non-chuan. Okay? Does that make sense to everybody? Does that make sense to you? Hidden in a rock is jade. Do you know where the jade is hidden in a rock? It's in Luzhu. Luzhu is sitting in like a rock, right? An old stubby old rock. There's jade in Luzhu. Nanchuan comes up and carves it out. However, however, still even though Nanchuan did this nice thing of showing us the jade in this plain, ordinary practice of wall-gazing, which is literal and transcendent, still, when he carved it, when he carved it, when he drew out that jade, he destroyed the purity of Luz's rock.

[50:02]

Does that make sense? Does that make sense? And we're kind of like destroying the purity of Zen practice right now. Here we are. Too bad. And then, a pearl in the abyss attracts of itself. In the water is embraced the pearls, and it is strained out by srensha. Do you know how he strained it out? I don't know how he stayed up. He said, if I had been with him, I would have given him five fire tongs.

[51:10]

That's how he straightened out the pearl. Is this the same person doing the smelling? J-I-A-O and S-H-A, these are two different people? Earlier there was a chuan jiao who said, was non-chuan chiming in words of agreement or words of disagreement. Is that the same person? No, it's a different person. It is a different person. Chuan jiao is the one who said, was non-chuan chiming in words of agreement, and then down below, Luoshan said this thing about five tongs, and then later Shrensha said, if I had seen him then, I too would have given him five fire tongs. Okay? So these guys are pulling out this, pulling out the jade and pulling out the pearl, you know, cutting it out and straining it out. However, then he says, huh,

[52:18]

You see, fortunately, a thoroughly clear air burnishes the sweltering heat of autumn. We've got air here. This air, fortunately, will burnish away the sweltering heat of autumn. Even though we have celebrated the way the ancients have defiled the purity of this practice, this air will wash it away from us. And tomorrow morning you'll all forget how good zazen is. And it will return to its purity. And during kin hin you'll run out of the zendo to go do something fun. rather than staying in the Zendo with those people whose minds are still defiled by remembering this teaching of how great Zazen is. Irony is one of the primary rhetorical devices of Zen practice.

[53:30]

A bit of cloud at leisure divides the sky and waters afar. Fortunately, there is naturally a thoroughly clear air burnishing the sweltering autumn pure, in which, just now, a bit of cloud at leisure divides the sky and waters afar. And Green Gulch has wonderful sky and waters, and one little leisurely cloud can divide them to their horizon. Have you noticed? Right now. You can go see that. And right now, the clear autumn air burnishes away the heat of this autumn. So there's more.

[54:55]

There's some interesting stuff in the explanation of the commentary. But the part I like best is the end. where Ten Thousand Pines said, I have never faced the wall. What good measure do you all come here for? He's saying that to the monks who are listening to his commentary in this case. And then he said, before anybody answered, he said on their behalf, here tell Tian Tung's eulogy of the ancients. In other words, referring you back to the verse which we just went over. So I'm willing to kind of like close shop on this case unless you want to talk about something else. My mind is sealed. I was just thinking how irony cuts into duality.

[56:00]

Yeah, it does. It cuts through absolutism and therefore cuts through also absolute and relative. In my middle years I'm becoming rather fond of irony. Yes. Is there a closeness between irony and sarcasm? Well, that's part of the complication of it, is I've been sarcastic for many years, so now as it blends into irony, it's hard for people to tell. But you know, I don't feel that sarcastic anymore. I really don't. Even though my irony may look like it. It's mostly habit. It's my karmic hindrances from my past sarcasm.

[57:05]

Yeah, that's true. And I think I still have some kind of like... you know, facial habits from ancient sarcasm that kind of like puts a bite into my irony. I'm sorry. I don't mean it. So you want to just knock it off in this case? Or anything else you want to bring up? In other words, just a second. I just want to say that, you know, the window's open and it's just a little crack here, but the autumn air is coming in and blowing away what we've said about this case, and we'll soon be back to our pure state of wall-gazing. You may make some extraneous remarks for the next half an hour, but I just want to say this is basically we're being relieved of our talking. And next week we will start on Case 24. One we've been abhorring for weeks.

[58:07]

Don? I was just puzzled about the reference to the fire. What was going on there? I mean, is that more iron, too? Could be, but I think that... Something handy. Something handy, yeah. I think that they would just be sitting around and there'd be a little, you know... brazier nearby. They'd be meditating. I think these guys, in these early days here, I think they meditated in some pretty rustic situations. You know, now we go over to China or Japan, we see these huge meditation halls, these gorgeous national treasures. These guys didn't have buildings like that. Luzhou did not have a place like that. Yeah, I think they, and then they were meditating around some place and they had some heat source because China's cold, you know, they didn't, they didn't, most of the people did not live without any heat. As a matter of fact, you know, they deforested the joint, heating themselves and doing their calligraphy. So probably it's just something handy, you know, you go see this guy meditating, you see some firetons over there, whack him one.

[59:13]

Of course, they almost never, ever did anything rude to each other or hit each other like that. This is all, again, rhetoric. Just because, you know, with such a plain practice, they talk big. That's what I'm telling you. It wasn't the reference to the fire times as such, but why they would be saying, I would give him five times. Why? As a gesture of, I would punish him, you know. I would hit him, I would snap him out of it. That's one of the meanings of hitting people. Jar him out of his complacency or whatever. Yes? That's why I was wondering if they were being ironic in the fact that they were honoring. Yes. That's a very strong possibility. Again, as I said, in Zen rhetoric, in Zen way of talking to try to emphasize something, one of the main ways that Zen people emphasize something is by calling an enlightened person an ass. As you will see in the next case, we refer to the beginning of the next case is, the introduction of the next case is, a whale in the eastern sea, the turtle-nosed snake of South Mountain, Puhua's donkey braids.

[60:40]

Talking about Puhua, going, hee-haw, hee-haw. That's because Linji called him an ass. And he demonstrated that he was not an ass. But we never are sure about the irony. This is part of the thing, you know? When the teacher says, no, is that ironic? And saying, no... Are you attached to them? Can you stand on your own two feet when I say that? And when you say no, can you say no while conceding to your student and conceding it to yourself? Can you hit that balance of recognizing the other basically as yourself and then speak to them with, you know, emphatic compassion?

[61:41]

And once in a million years, they hit somebody. It's beneficial. Yeah, I was thinking, Will, that fire tongs are instruments for dealing with what's too hot to handle. Yeah, so it would be good to use fire tongs on Luzi. The last added saying is in the verse where it says, a bit of cloud that weighs you to the sky and waters around the things that are many devils. Around the things that are many devils? Talking about the cloud performing a devilish act of separating sky from water and defining it as sky or what was that? These last two lines, you know, thoroughly clear autumn, thoroughly clear air burnishes sweltering autumn pure.

[63:11]

And then the comment on that is the body is exposed to the golden wind. That's a reference to case 27 of the book of the Blue Cliff Record. The body is exposed to the golden wind. I'll get to what you're saying. The body is exposed to involvement. What does that mean? Question, which body? Yeah, which body? It means exposed? That's right. Well, anyway, it's the same thing. The body is exposed to the golden wind as the same. I think in this case, not always, but in this case, it seems to me to be the same statement. It's basically a synonymous statement. The golden wind, you know, clears away all defilement.

[64:13]

And defilement means that the Buddha's body has marks. You know? that you recognize the Buddha's body by her marks. Do you know what I mean? That's in the Diamond Sutra, right? The Buddha says, if you recognize me by my marks, then you don't recognize me. You recognize the Buddha by the possession of no marks. That's how you see Buddha's marks. The golden wind cleanses your body, your Buddha body of marks. Doesn't mean Buddha's body doesn't have marks, it means you do not recognize the Buddha's body by marks. Yes. So in other words, when you see someone, of course they have marks. Whoever you see has marks. And if you see a Buddha, a Buddha's going to have some great marks.

[65:15]

And when a Buddha sees a person, A Buddha sees a person with great marks, with marks of a great person. But that's not how you see the Buddha. Even though every person you see has marks, it's when you see the person possessing no marks that you see the Buddha. Therefore you say marks of Buddha. That's called the body exposed to the golden wind, and that's called the clear air experience. burnishes the sweltering heat pure. You still have to use a fan. Yeah. You still have to put your body out there in the air. So the next one is, a bit of cloud at leisure divides the sky, and around good things there are many devils. And again, this is kind of, in many scriptures it talks about this, that around something very precious, like a precious jewel, there's a lot of trouble.

[66:25]

Around a jewel-like person, there's a lot of trouble. A lot of devils. Around the Buddha there's a lot of devils. Whenever anybody sits still... there's great turbulence created around that person. Everything else starts moving. The more still, the more movement around it. The more determination not to move until one is realized, the more testing there will be. Around perfect wisdom there's great demons. Here, it's not a demonic thing necessarily that the clouds divide the sky from the water. That's just the way things are. That's just the way things are. But around that, simply just the way things are, there's a tremendous turbulence. And it's hard for us to get through the turbulence and live at

[67:31]

The sky being separated from the sea by one leisurely cloud. Moment after moment, one leisurely cloud separates the sky from the ocean all the way to China. Around this person traveling by night is a lot of turbulence, a lot of alternative objects of attention. Right? Now we have a class and somehow we drag up these ancient expressions and we hear them and we say, aha, that sounds pretty good. But how long can you remember this jewel before the turbulence comes up again and takes you off into thinking about things that make you go, yuck. And you forget that traveling by night completely. And there you are traveling in the middle of the day and not even going very deep.

[68:36]

Right? So forgive yourself because the closer you get to this place, the more turbulence there will be. The closer you get to being able to hear Tien Tung saying it in a foreign language, almost like you can hear him saying it in Chinese, that this leisurely cloud separates the sky from the water afar. At that place where you're real close with all the Buddhas and ancestors, right around that place where they're all sitting quietly, peacefully, gently, discussing perfect wisdom together, all around that is fierce flames. Right? It is, I think so. It seems to be the case. That seems to be where the work is done. All around, fierce flames, demons and devils all around.

[69:43]

And it's not for me. But when you're in the middle, temporarily, you can laugh. Even greatly, greatly, greatly people are turned in the stream of words. The stream of words, fierce flames, armies of devils, they're all swirling around us day and night. Not just around this way, but around in ten directions. They're all swirling, swirling, swirling, and it's our mind. And if we touch it, we'll get burned, and if we turn away from it, we'll freeze. Push it down and it'll turn up. So we have to somehow figure out how to sit there and remember night travel in the middle of all this. It's not easy, especially when we get spun up, and it's as though we're way out in it, and we can hardly remember how to get back to the center of it again. It's a sad situation.

[70:49]

How long is the sagakki ceremony? This one woman who's one in the practice period, she's not here tonight, she said that she really found the ceremony really helpful and she felt so peaceful she walked out the door and got extremely angry. She didn't know why. I remember that movie called Hannah and Her Sisters and at the end of the movie It was her birthday, Hannah's 40th birthday, and the three sisters were together. And they were having a little birthday cake. And so they said, well, Hannah, make a wish. And she said, well, it's not exactly a wish. It's more like a vision. It's a vision of the three of us standing around a birthday cake. And we're happy. But that's just for now. Seigaki is not for any other time than now.

[71:56]

And if we don't accept that, we create more hungry ghosts. That's how you make them. We could have a hungry ghost factory. Get everybody to come in the room and wish for something else. Or more of this. Or more of this. Or let's do this again. I told the story, I was in Minneapolis, and when I was there, I really had a nice time feeding the Zen students. They're all little dharma, you know, worms, little berries. It was really nice. And then every day, I had doksan by walking around the Minnesota lakes in the height of autumn colors. Gorgeous, sunny day every day. It took about 40 minutes to walk around this lake, just one doksan, two doksans.

[73:03]

I was getting exercise. It was great, you know, really nice. And I grew up right on those lakes right there, so... So I was walking through beautiful colors, talking to sincere Zen students, and also just walking through all my memories of my childhood. It was just this wonderful experience. And then at the end of the week, of all this great weather and great experience, it started to get dark and raining. After all that nice time, it was kind of like, yeah, fine, rain, no problem, I can take it. No problem. But then after the rain was going on for a while, and then even after it stopped, I went out to my brother's house out in the country, and the rain had stopped, and these beautiful... you know, there's still some clouds and stuff, and these beautiful, like, purple and blue and gray skies, you know, gray clouds and white. It's just gorgeous. And there's still the colors, you know, and the green.

[74:04]

So beautiful. And I noticed my mind was saying, yeah, this really is beautiful. And I watched my mind saying, but just a little bit more sun. Could bring out a little of those colors there. There it is. Just a desire for a little bit more color in that tree right there. That's all it takes. And there it is. And there will be no end to this. There will always be that. And like also I was thinking, you know, Peter Rudnick was telling me, just as he was reading the Odyssey, and I remember the end of the Odyssey, after Odysseus comes back and, you know, defeats the suitors with the aid of Athena, right? Isn't she the one who helps him? Right? Yeah. And then he defeats the suitors. And then the suitors' families want to take revenge on him.

[75:06]

The parents of the young men who, you know, had just been killed. and so this and a lot a lot of them just you know gave up but then some of the suitors families came came after odysseus and here's odysseus is kind of an old guy himself and he has all these sort of decrepit assistants so a few decrepit assistants and so the suitors families are coming highly way outnumbering them and these guys are kind of old and wrecked anyway and athena comes to help him once more you know and she puts a little you know a little life in the arms of his old his old assistant and the guy sort of gets a little glamour back in his body and he And then they defeat the family of the suitors, and the family of the suitors are running away, you know, in defeat. And Odysseus sees their backs and starts chasing them to attack them one more time. It's old school, you know. And Athena sends a nice friendly little bolt of lightning down. It's enough. That's enough. Stops him.

[76:07]

But there will be no end to his stupidity. I don't think, you know. always more greed always more anger you know but there is also there's one traveling by night so yeah so uh so read case 24 next week we'll start discussing it and and that'll be really something case 24 And try to, in your mind, what you're reading, try to, this guy named Chan Ching, remember him? He was in this week, and he's previous. Keep track of him through the book. He's in this one again. So we have Shui Fung, which is Sepo. He's Cloudy Summit. And he has the disciple Jun Mun. Changqing, and Shrensha, who we also have in this case and in previous cases.

[77:09]

So familiarize yourself with Changqing, Shrensha, and Yunnan, these three great teachers or students of this Shui Feng. Shui Feng, look out for the snake. So this is also, this is case 24 of the Book of Serenity. It's also case 22 of the Blue Cliff record. If you really want to, you know, immerse yourself in the stuff, you can read that too. Huh? Yeah, this is the snake handler, right? Okay. May they honor and bless you.

[77:50]

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