and how it is that duality could actually kind of not make us really feel okay about life. That until you're fairly settled, you may not know that you're unsettled by the slightest bit of duality. If you're tremendously upset, we think that you're upset about oftentimes the top level of your upset. If you're less upset than that, you might feel somewhat relieved. If you're less upset than that, you might feel more relieved. If you sit at that level for a while, you may notice something underneath. If you address that, if you settle with that, you may notice something underneath that. I'm proposing that the slightest bit of dualistic thinking is knowing and anxiety could work.

[01:03]

And that you're not completely settled until you're free of that. And that in an optimistic sense, human evolution at this point is driving to settle that problem. And some of us are driving hard to settle that problem. And some of us are driving hard to settle that problem, and we have no idea that we're driving to settle that problem. We think we're trying to win a car race, or we think we're trying to become president of the United States, or we think we're trying to become a drug lord, or we think we're trying to become the smartest professor, or we think we're trying to get control of our kids. We don't notice that actually we're being driven by this fundamental desire to overcome duality. But all of us, all of us humans are driving for this.

[02:10]

And we will not rest until we settle it. We will always be driven to settle this. I say. Karma is a mistake we make in the process of trying to deal with this. So we have to deal with that mistake in order to bring ourselves back to address the fundamental goal. Time is a gross diversion from the actual work we need to do. But almost all of us are involved in this gross diversion, which has consequences. And the consequences provoke us to think that we have to deal with the consequences with more karma. And the more we think that these consequences require more karma, the more the consequences tempt us to think that we have to do more karma to deal with the consequences.

[03:16]

If we do a little karma, and we have a little consequence, we might think, well, I'm not sure if I need to do something about it. Maybe I don't. Maybe I do. And if you don't, fine. Then you've got a consequence that's hard to deal with. But you're not going to act on karma. So there you are. What? What? What? Pain. Pain. Anxiety. Why? Something's off. Something's off. But you're not slipping into, I'm going to do something about it yet. You're just sitting there kind of like paralyzed, you know, with the awareness that you've got a problem. Kind of impotent. Not powerful. Just kind of like, I've got a problem, I've got a problem, I've got a problem, I've got a problem. How long can you be patient with this problem? Well, maybe I could study it.

[04:21]

Maybe that would be something I could do. No, that wouldn't get me doing something. How about just studying? Without any sense of studying, you're going to, like, exit. Maybe studying might set you free. In the meantime, none of you are not going to do anything. But then you get bored, and you can't stand to be there with it, so you act. Then when you act, you get a result. Now this result won't be so easy to say, well, gosh, what? This is going to be like, that last one actually was kind of like, you know, actually I could have just sat there and watched this thing. I've got to act on this one. I mean, the last one I sat there for a long time before I realized, before I thought I needed to act. And now that I've acted, I realize I really didn't have to act.

[05:22]

But now I see this one. Because I did act in the last one, now I have to act in this one. It's like gambling, right? You go to Las Vegas, or you go to Marina, and you see these people gambling, and they look kind of silly. And you don't have to gamble. You think, oh, maybe I will gamble a dollar. And you lose it. You say, well, before I didn't have to gamble, but now I have to get my dollar back. You say the more you play that game, the deeper it goes? The more you play the game, the more interest you get. Right. And the more you think you have to play the game. Yeah. Yeah. At some point, however, you might say, okay, I've noticed that the more I play it, the more I think I have to play it. I see that. So I'm going to keep, I'll probably keep thinking that I have to play it, but maybe my thought that I have to play it is just part of the system, and maybe I don't.

[06:23]

Even though I really feel like I have to, what I do notice that I think more, I more and more think I have to. I notice that tendency. And every time I fall for that, I'm even more convinced that I have to. And maybe this is not going to work out, so maybe I should actually change my technique and just be like I was back when I almost didn't think I had to. Now, when you start turning it around and things start calming down, then you get to a place where you start to realize that that little thing, that little bug there is pushing you into, like, something's wrong, I'm going to do something about it. That little bug is actually, has to be settled, and that you cannot stand that indefinitely. And you have to work on it. You have to confront it, otherwise you're going to flip into karma, which is going to take you farther away from it and postpone the time of dealing with it longer. And you always come back to it. So you have to work there.

[07:26]

And they run away from it, get in all kinds of trouble, and they finally realize, oh, okay, and they come back to deal with it. And it's so subtle and so difficult to say, oh, well, I think I'll just do it. Oh, God, let's do it. So we go through this over and over. So now that we're getting fairly close to the problem, now is the time to gradually not run away from it. This time, Go down there and find a way to stay with it. And for now, if you've got any karma going on still, find a way to continuously study karma. And then if you can do that, continuously study delusion, the base of it. When you graduate, continually study the duality at the base of it. gradually, plan and vow to gradually settle completely into the problem, no matter what the cost.

[08:37]

Yes? I disagree. I mean, I think we need to be perfectly balanced in treating the family. So what action did you propose? What action do you think you should do? You know, I don't know. I think about Jim. No, but I mean, what action do you think you should do? Just tell me what it is, and then you can go do it. What is it that you want to do? Are you writing letters? Well, if you think that's what's right for you to do, why don't you do it then?

[09:45]

I've got to ask you before I keep talking about it. Do you think you should do something about what you're doing? Where I am in the city, I'm studying it. You're studying it? No, I've got to show you what I'm doing. Just a second. Do you think you should? Then are you going to do it? What? Are you going to do as much as you think you should do? How much do you think you should do? Well, I agree with you in that I think that is better. No, no, no, no. You're not talking about that. You said we need to do something. Then if you think you should do something, then I would like you to tell me what you think you should do and then tell me if you're going to do what you think you should do. And then after that's settled, then you will do what you say, right? Or you will fail at what you think you should do. All right? So are you going to follow through on this and tell me what you think you should do and what you're going to do?

[11:09]

You said you think you have to do something. I asked you what you think you have to do. And then if you tell me what you think you have to do, then I'll ask you if you're going to do it. Well, I think the first thing I have to do is... I feel like... What? What? Social action. Yeah, but what? Be specific. Just to say generally... Just to say generally, I have a problem if you just say generally. You know why I have a problem you're saying, Janet? I just don't, I just, it seems like I don't know what you're talking about. I can just say, I got to do something, and you won't say what it is. Well, if I do what it was, I'd do it. Right, totally.

[12:17]

Most people are still involved in karma. If you're involved in karma, then the question is, is it false or unfulfilled? If something needs to be done, you see something needs to be done, and it's unwholesome enough to do it, are you unwholesome in what you're looking at doing it, or are you wholesome in what needs to be done? That's the question. If you see something that needs to be done, well, there it is. This is part of what's involved in meditating on karma, is to observe when you're doing it what type you're doing.

[13:44]

My question to you is, are you going to do that? Are you going to look at what you're doing and see what you're up to and not? You said you disagreed. You said we have to do something. But the point is that most of us are doing things all day long. So to say that you disagree, that you think we have to do something, I'm not saying we don't have to do something. I'm not saying we don't have to do something. I'm not saying we do have to do something. This retreat is not about... The name of this retreat is you have to do something. That's the name of this retreat. The name of this retreat is what are you doing? What are you doing? Are you aware of what you're doing? That's the name of this retreat. Do you know what you're doing? Are you studying what you're doing?

[14:51]

And if you say yes, then I can ask you, well, what are you doing? You can tell me. And then I can ask, is that wholesome? And you can tell me, maybe. And if you say you don't know, then I say, well, please find out whether it's wholesome. And if it's unwholesome, then how come? If you're not doing something that's beneficial, well, how come? Don't you want to? And so on. I'd like you to find out what you're doing. So if you hear me saying that I'm telling you not to do anything, you're misunderstanding. I'm not telling you what to do or not to do. I'm not asking you what are you doing. Now, do you disagree with that? No. I'm not telling you what to do. I'm asking you what are you doing. And if you think you need to do something helpful, then I would say, well, what are you doing? Then you can tell me.

[15:54]

But it's hard to tell me, isn't it? What you're doing. It's hard to tell me what you're doing because it's hard for you to see what you're doing. Because it's hard to look at what you're doing. And even if you look, it's hard to see. It's hard to see if it pulls around or not. Isn't it hard? Isn't it hard? hard to do it a little, and it's harder to do it a lot. I'm asking you, I'm suggesting to consider that it's time to do it a lot. It's time to do it so much that you'll be able to see the source of the karma. And then, it's time to look at the source of the karma a lot so that you can become free of the source of karma. And then, there won't be any more karma, and you'll act but the action will be karma. In the meantime, until you understand that, you will continue to do karma.

[17:00]

All of us will continue to do karma, I say, we will all continue to do karma until we understand that karma is an illusion based on a delusion. In the meantime, again, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, I'm proposing to you, I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just saying, If you do wholesome karma, it will be easier for you to study the karma. If you do unwholesome karma, it will be harder for you to study the karma. I am saying I think it's good for you to study karma. I am saying that. I'm not exactly telling you to study karma. I'm just saying this week is a course on studying karma. This course is about karma and studying karma. That's what I'm here to talk about, how to do that. And I offered the class because I think it's really important to study karma. You know, I don't really think it's important to do karma. And I don't think it's really important to be alive either.

[18:02]

I just think we are alive and we should take care of it. I think we are human. We should take care of it. I think we do do karma. I think we should take care of it. The reason why I think so is because I think it would be great if we all woke up and were happy. So I'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling you that I think it would be good if you watched what you did and understood it. No matter what I tell you to do, you won't do it anyway, so I would be wasting my time. But maybe if I encourage you to watch what you do, you could do that. You could practice that. You get to decide all the things you do, And you also get to decide whether you watch yourself. And I just get some credit for encouraging you to do that. But still, I come for you to consider whether you actually would like to start and maybe commit yourself to the awareness of what you're doing.

[19:17]

Try to develop that awareness and be consistent in it until you understand. And also, I guess I'd like anybody who has the view that you can be happy and enlightened and free without studying what you're up to to come and sort of make a case for that. Because I don't see it. I think you have to look at this step in order to be free, because otherwise I think this activity dominates and it chains us. That's what I think. That's why I entitled the class the way I did, because that way people who came here would know that they were probably preparing about that kind of stuff. When you have, have a joke. Stan?

[20:22]

You had a question about two EMs a day. I was thinking about You know, you're scared. Scared of things to be rude to each other. You know, as you continue to ask people things to be rude to others, you understand how you're asked to be seen as being scared. But if you're asked to, you know, try to explain things in a way that you can say, well, that was supposed to happen. But now that it's all right, you can do it yourself. You're asking me what variance point count? Is fairness related to justice?

[21:33]

Is it related to justice? Well, I think that what we're dealing with here of studying karma, I think, is the way to realize justice. And so rather than, I would say justice is, for me, justice is what's happening. The way it's actually happening. That's what I think of justice. For me, justice is the way things are actually happening. How clear is that some of these disorders are lost and can't function? How would I communicate to him? How would you communicate? Do we have somebody here who's going to walk like that?

[22:37]

Sorry, you have to show me the person to see how I would try to communicate that. First of all, would that person be asking me what justice is? Well, as I'm saying, it's a hypothetical situation. If you've got this person and you're asking me what justice is, Is that what they're doing? They're trying to understand something, but they can't see it. They can't see it. Pardon? Right, so tell me more about the story. Tell me more of the story. I know, but tell me more of the story of making up. Yeah, first of all, you've got the person, the people coming to talk to you, right? OK, so they're asking me a question, right? OK, so you lost your child in the daycare center. What's your question? . Okay, now I would say, do you really want me to answer your question?

[24:01]

Huh? Okay, you really want to hear my answer? Really? Okay, number one, I don't answer why questions. Mr. Wong, talk to me. Okay, now ask me the question without a why. I do. Pardon? Okay. I wasn't there. How come you're asking, so I don't know how it happened? Okay. Do you want to tell me how it happened? So, if you don't know how it happened, I don't know how it happened, then where are we going to go with this? You're doing pretty well.

[25:25]

I mean, I can imagine the parents saying, I don't know how it happened. I can imagine them saying they don't know how. And, yes? I wonder if that would help. I don't know. But it sounds like what you're saying is, what is it in what we're studying here that's offered to come on little software that would actually be up to some use? Uh-huh. I understand. It may be that actually what you're saying is abuse, but it's not clear to me, and it doesn't sound clear to you, that you told the parent, how did this happen? You say, I don't know. If you see it, and they say no, they say, well, why, you know, I want to know, and here we are, we don't know. How is that abuse in dealing with this stuff? Well, what would be useful for people to help endure the suffering? They do? Would that help them? If they weren't like that?

[26:36]

I know, but would it help? Would that, huh? Pardon? No, that'd be silly. I think so. Right, but what would help? Being what? Studying this, I think studying this art would be good. Pardon? Yeah. Yeah. And that might help them study their sorrow. This is not about fairness yet. This is about that they're suffering, that they have sorrow, that they have loss, that they don't like that they lost their child. That's what we've got so far, right? We're not into fairness yet. They may be into fairness, but I don't particularly think that getting into that's going to help myself. It might, but I don't see it. Yeah.

[27:56]

When I was, like, last day flying that from Arkansas, it was a large flight. And when I got to the airport, what should have been a long ticket, tickets of maybe 20 or 30 people, was maybe 150 people. And the event that followed was that airline connection to miss all of the United States. And the hour, hour and a half review People at the counter were trying to connect people with airplanes over the next day or two. The people standing in line were very upset and very angry. And probably half the people in the line were very vocal about this. The people standing behind the counter were having a lot of trouble just trying to figure out how to make these connections, let alone video call an input. coming in from the people. So as I worked my way through the line, I wondered the same question.

[28:57]

What's there here? What's balanced? What can we expect to help the situation here? And I actually, I didn't know. I just stood there and listened to what people had to say. But before, I was amazed at how vocal and how, what seemed to be unkind of what are people who are volunteering standing there during the event. And I wanted the same thing, and I never came up with an answer. You wonder what thing? The same thing. How could I help the person behind the counter? It didn't seem to me to say, well, listen, if you really observe closely, if you can see that this is connecting circumstances, arrive and out of store. They didn't want to hear anything like that. They were having trouble trying to figure out how to do it. Right. But what am I saying is the helpful thing to do in a situation like that? What am I saying? What am I saying to do, folks, in a situation like that? What? What? What? Well, during this workshop, what am I saying to do in the line?

[30:01]

Study karma. Of course that involves feeling your pain. But I'm talking about more than feeling your pain, folks. Of course you have to do that because your consciousness has pain in it. If you won't pay attention to your pain, you're not going to be able to see your karma. So you study your pain and you study your karma. That's what you can do in the line when you're waiting in line and people are yelling at you. That's what you can do to help. And that will help the person behind the counter? I don't know what it'll do, but that's your job. Their job is to be behind the counter and hopefully they're studying their karma while they're doing their job. Your job is to be in the line. That's your job. Unless you get out of the line. Your job is to be out of the line. If you're in the line, you are or you are not doing karma being in the line. If somebody's coming to see me, I am or I am not doing the karma talking to them.

[31:21]

What are they doing? Are they doing their job of meditating on their karma of being the parents who lost a child and doing whatever they're doing? Are they? No. Yeah, probably not. And in cases like that, again, you see, cases like that, in those cases, we think the situation's so bad, I don't have to practice. Don't we? That's what I said. Because you're not overwhelmed, you think, Since I'm overwhelmed, now I shouldn't practice. I should only practice when I don't have to. But now, when I'm on the verge of committing mayhem, now I should not practice because the situation is so bad now, I should go out and find somebody to blame for my child's death, or somebody to blame for this storm.

[32:31]

It's gotten bad enough, so forget about that. Isn't that what happens? That's the way karma works, you see. When you do karma, then you get results, and the results are painful and disorienting, and then you think, I'm un-overwhelmed, so I don't have to practice. But I'll do something, though, about it. I'll punch this person in front of me in wine who's screaming at those poor workers back there, or I'll punch the workers. I'm going to find some... Well, not just add to the suffering. I'm going to do something about it and I'm going to fix it and I'm going to take revenge or whatever on the situation. It's a cop-out. The whole thing is based on cop-out. The fundamental thing is we cop-out. What do we cop-out on? Well, yeah, we cop-out on not practicing. We fundamentally cop-out on what's happening. Right.

[33:34]

And when we don't need to practice, well, then we don't need much of an excuse not to practice because it doesn't matter much, right? And then when we don't practice, when it isn't necessary, then we get into situations where we're, like, you know, I'm overwhelmed, and then, of course, we can't practice, right? So when things aren't so bad, we don't have to, and so then we don't. So then things get really bad, so then we can't. So basically, we never have to, right? Because things either aren't bad enough to practice or too bad to practice. They're never just right. They're never just right. Including right now. Right now is not a good time to practice. Right? Because things aren't that bad. Or, for some people, they are that bad. Either it's too bad, this workshop's too overwhelmingly bad, and you can't practice, or it hasn't got bad enough, so you can wait until it gets worse to start practicing. For somebody else in the situation, I would add that it's more appropriate for us to be loving and kind to that person before we practice.

[34:37]

Right. So what can I do for that person as opposed to what I could do? So I'll do some karma for that person, and later I'll practice. Right. rather than I'll do some karma for that person, which is, of course, I'll do karma no matter what, but I'll watch myself when I do karma. But I can't watch myself while I do karma because that's too luxurious, and thinking that is a result of bad karma. And since we have plenty of bad karma, so we have plenty of bad karma stored up, which we can use at any time we want to tell ourselves that we can't practice now. So because of bad karma, we say, I'm too busy, the situation is too hectic, Too many people are suffering from need of practice, so I can't practice, rather than people need me to practice, and I need to practice. And that's always the case. And I'm living a hard time getting my job, but at least I'm not confused about the fact that I shall always be practicing, no matter what's happening.

[35:39]

I'm not confused about that. I just sometimes forget, but that's clearing. There's no situation that's not worthy of practice. And all day long, I've got to be responsible for myself wherever I am. And does that help other people? I don't know. But if I don't do that, I will definitely harm other people. Definitely harm them. And also set a bad example, which is the worst harm. Whether I'll be able to help them or not, It's not clear. If I were to become enlightened, I would definitely be able to help them, but, you know, we don't know how long that's going to take. And people come at me, or come at me with all kinds of stuff. They want justice. They want freedom. They want money. They want fame. They want recognition. They want all this stuff. What's your job? Watch what you're doing. It's very difficult, though, especially when it's in place.

[36:42]

I think it's good to step back. That's right. You talked about what it's going to do for other people before you talked about what it's going to do for you. Because what it does for you is that you and I are not just unhelpful. We're actually negative influences in the world if we don't take care of ourselves. And if we do take care of ourselves, we protect other people and ourselves from ourselves. Plus also, we set an example. Don't overlook the fact that your behavior unattended is creating problems.

[38:01]

Double help or double kindness if you don't meditate, if I don't meditate on what I'm doing and understand what I'm doing. And... we have very little encouragement to pay attention to ourselves in this way of studying. Very little encouragement to do so. I never heard of it myself all the way to school. I never heard anything about this in grade school, junior high, high school, college. I never heard anything about this. All this stuff I got taught, and you didn't tell me, but now it seems to be the most important thing for anybody to do. Isn't that funny? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That it's a culture?

[39:20]

I don't want to say no, that it never was a culture, because some people say they know that. Buddhist society? Buddhist society? I don't know about the Buddhist societies. I'll just say, well, Tibet was virtually a Buddhist society at certain points of history. So maybe it was. I don't know. I don't know. The end of the day was, all I know is that right now, it's really hard for us to do this. Isn't it? Are we having a hard time doing this? So there were societies where people were taught to do it. But I'm just saying, we're having a hard time doing it. And the reason why we're having a hard time doing it is because we haven't had very much practice at it. So even though we're middle-aged and so on, except for Charlie and Charlie.

[40:25]

Oh. And Dana. We're beginners at meditating on karma, pretty much. We haven't had that many thousand hours of meditation on our karma. But we have had many thousands of hours of doing karma, fairly unattended by reflection as to how it was karma, and what kind of karma it was, and what the results were, and the result to continue this meditation. I guess, I get that. Was your hand right in the server? Yeah. I was wondering if I could talk a little bit about this.

[41:42]

It's disgusting. I mean, if you want to. Well, you know, I think your statement that you're a little tired is a good indication that maybe that would be kind of a quick thing to take on if I can do that. Maybe we do that from 9 to 9.30. Wait five minutes, rest for five minutes, and then do it from 9 to 9.30. Just kidding, just kidding. What I meant to say is 9.30 to 10. Okay. I got that. Do you think it works, the schedule is good to have to start with meditation?

[42:44]

Or would it be better to start with discussion and then have meditation and then have discussion? What do you think? Is it good the way we're doing it? Yeah. So we'll start with meditation and then talk again. And tomorrow I will address that question about psychotherapy and also hope to get into the A very difficult topic, how the effects happen, how that all works. Well, this is just the first day. It seems like... Yes, things are moving here.

[43:50]

So our congratulations to you on making this thing, you know, it's happening. Something's happening. I hope you get a good night's rest. that tomorrow you'll be able to be awake for the day. Thank you very much. They are in action and we have been able to get them out of that room. They didn't have a place. They had a trip. They had a lot of, you know, they were swaying. They didn't serve well for us, but that is what I want to say to them. The admissions are inexhaustible. I am part of a group that is like the development of the Indian storyboard works.

[44:51]

I am part of a group that is like the development of the Indian storyboard works. I am part of a group that is like the development of the Indian storyboard works. Meditation, if I didn't, that when you're sitting In meditation, while some people, when they look inside and try to see what kind of impulses they have, action, they have trouble finding any. And that may be because when you're sitting, you may have a predominant, maybe even more of a predominance of what you might call receptive, kind of receptive mode of consciousness.

[46:00]

And in a receptive mode of consciousness, what's the shape of the consciousness at that time? What's the landscape? What's the watershed of the consciousness in a receptive mode? Open. What kind of shape did it have, do you think? The shape of the body. The shape of the body. What would the shape of your consciousness be in a receptive moment? Like a bowl? Like a bowl, yeah. And if you pour water in a bowl, where is the water going to go? Huh? What? Yeah, it's going to go in the bowl. It won't run out someplace. It doesn't look like it's going somewhere. So if your consciousness is just one of the open and receptive surface, If you looked at the inclination of the consciousness, it wouldn't look like we were doing anything.

[47:10]

And so in a receptive state, if you try to determine the karmic value of that state, you'd have trouble determining it. You might actually possibly be sure that it would be determined. You might be sure that it was not . very clear that it didn't have tendency, and that water would not flow to pour down. And it's really just that filled space. When the mind is acting like an organ, it actually isn't active. When the mind is just certainly a function of receptivity or sensing, it's not actually the actor at that time. So, again, as I mentioned, some part of our life, our mind is in a receptive mode, and therefore there is no karma at that time.

[48:18]

So we're not always involved in karma. What I was thinking is if you have a bowl, you have water collected, you could also have there, like, stagnation in the pond or something that has nowhere that it's going. And if you have sort of collected or there's a reception of either negative or either way, then you could have a service. Yes, you could. However, this particular bullet only lasts for a moment. And then it's gone. And then a new rainfall happens, the new bullet. So there could be stagnation, but primarily due to the attitude, not so much due to the process.

[49:32]

You know, When you're sitting, so generally speaking, I would say that it's some merit in saying that when organs are functioning, they're passive. They're not active. They're not doing anything. And if organs are doing something, they're not really very receptive. They're interfering with the process. So for that reason also, when the mind is not in receptive mode, it's almost in interfering mode. So when you're sitting, I think a lot of people, when they're sitting, they're more in receptive mode. So it's harder. That's another reason why it may be harder for them to meditate on karma when they're sitting, because it rotates the mind on kind of receptive quality. But I might mention, parenthetically, which I'll expand on later, that what is presented to the mind, what comes up, is not karma either.

[50:40]

is the fruit of karma. And I would also say it is the fruit of karma, but it's not solely determined by karma. Yes? Well, I'm going to say it's the fruit of karma. And I'll say, but not deterministically so. And I'll explain that later. But just mention here that although when you're in receptive mode, you're not involved in karma at that time, what's presented to you is the material of karma. But another analogy would be If a person walks in the door to talk to you, or even you might say, if a person delivers you a bill or something, and the bill is for the maturing of the bill, or it's time for you to pay the bill, that's the maturing of the bill, but that event is not only determined by

[52:13]

the fact that the bill came to mature, a lot of other things contribute to the fact that that thing came to. But the fact that it's time to pay it now, that's the maturing of the payment arrangement. But a lot of other things have to support that event, which are not directly related to the payment arrangement. For example, the person who brought it to you, a variety of people could bring it to you. They're not related to the fact that you bought something outside of paper. A piece of paper may have nothing to do, or it could be delivered on cloth, or it could be delivered verbally, or in plastic, or raised during a computer. All that stuff has nothing to do with your action in a sense. Maybe you'll find it dark. Strictly speaking, the main thing that's being delivered to you It has to do with your actions. In fact, if you bought something or you took a loan out and now it's time to pay, that part of it is the maturing of your action.

[53:23]

A lot of the other ways to liberate to you is not necessarily so. So for example, the modality of delivery is not necessarily maturing in your karma. But it could be. Great examples. So again, karma is not the sole determinant of the things that happen to you. However, karma does mature in the midst of what happens to you. Karma matures in terms of what's presented to you. For example, if you're sitting in a zendo, in a meditation hall, in a receptive mood, and you feel the pain, that feeling, feeling pain is not karma. But feeling pain, feeling, the way you feel, is retribution. But the experience is not totally determined by reputation. The experience is influenced by what day it is, what kind of day it is, the weather, who else is in the room.

[54:30]

And who else is in the room and the way they're behaving is not solely determined by your content. But the quality of experience, the way you experience, that is the experience part of the experience. is retribution. But the particular qualities of the experience are not all extremely like karma. Let me get more into it later. I have a book for your preferences. Okay, so receptivity is not karma, but what you receive is. So an example of that would be, this is getting bigger, an example of that would be, if you feel anger towards someone, If you think an angry thought or have an ill will, then that ill will in your mind will mature later. It will come to maturity in the form of a painful sensation. That's one way it can mature.

[55:34]

Another way it can mature There's other ways. I don't want to mention others in your trip. It's too big. One way anger can mature, an angry thought, not just anger, but anger which has shaped the consciousness towards an imagination of an action based on your will. Anger can also cause, anger can be the condition for more anger. But angry karma, or karma of acting out ill will in your mind, that can also cause more anger. It also has a retribution, a karmic effect in terms of eating, which is not considered pleasure. And a generous thought, a kind thought,

[56:35]

and actually thought before thinking in a kind and generous way, imagining a kind and generous act, and actually being really behind that act and liking that act and wanting to do that act, that has retribution in terms of experience and play. It also might coincide with pleasure at the time you thought it, but not necessarily. It's possible to really want to do a wholesome thing and not necessarily feel pleasure at the moment, but still want to do it. and feel joy and confidence and faith that's a good thing to do even though you're in pain. So you could be in pain, like really sick, that intense illness, cancer or something, and really think positive, loving thought to a visitor. And that knows and want to do something very nice for that visitor. And that karmic thought would ever to be a pleasure. maybe not for a while because you're sick. It might be in the next moment if you feel a little flash of pain in the middle of your illness.

[57:41]

So the parentheses I think is now blown open. And we're in the second category here of action produces fruit, result, or retribution, either in this life or in future life. So I take the parentheses off. And now I'd like to make a parenthesis inside of this top. And that is, in Tygo's example yesterday of waiting in the line at the airport, and this was a particularly difficult wait because the line was long and there was lots of upset and so on. In cases like that, myself, but anyway, Some people might find it easy to meditate on kama when they're in such a horrendous situation. Some people might find it hard. But I remember, I used the example in one of my talks here on Sunday, that I left Tassajara, I did a retreat at Tassajara, and as part of that retreat, I asked people, and I asked myself, through the seat, if you could continue your mindfulness practice up over the hill and into the city.

[58:58]

So I I felt like I was doing pretty well going over the mountain. And I told a story. We found a little girl curled up on the road as we were leaving. And I felt like we were pretty mindful and pretty present. And then Charlie and I drove up the highway. And we were actually writing an article on Zazen. I felt pretty present then. And the place I felt like I lost it was kind of in the line waiting for getting my ticket. Not getting my ticket, but to check in. I felt like I kind of lost in line. It wasn't a real long line. It wasn't a real difficult line. But I felt like I really wasn't sort of into the meditation. I got a little bit more into like being in line, you know, and getting checked in. It made me concerned for how long it would take. I was not worried that I'd get on the plane.

[59:59]

I was there plenty of times, so that wasn't the issue. But I got a little bit into the mind, which is, here you are in line at the airport, right? You've got plenty of time, but you kind of want, you're kind of into, you're more into, like, well, you're into how long it's going to take to get to the line so that you can then, you know, walk down to your gate and then sit there waiting for the plane. Right? Yeah. So I'm not going to be present here in this line because I want to go present. But then, of course, as you walk down to the gate and stuff and walk to security, you're not kind of like saying, oh, good, now finally I'm in a good situation to meditate. So then you're also kind of, how fast can I get to the security thing? And then when you get to the waiting area, are you really like, now I can meditate? Or is it kind of like, well, how long before the thing or anything?

[61:01]

What can I get done? What can I read before I get on the plane? How many telephone calls can I make? It really doesn't work to get through this so that you can then do that so then you can start meditating. But usually where you are is the best place. And so waiting in line is one of the greatest places actually to meditate. Especially all in all circumstances. But in fact, you are standing there. You might be doing karmic, and you're moving forward, and moving your back, and moving forward, and moving your back, and moving your back forward, and catching up with your back. You're doing all that. And a perfectly good example of perhaps karma, and a perfectly good example, especially if you're by yourself like I was, of meditating on what you're doing, But you slightly shift from this perfectly good example of opportunity to meditate to kind of being concerned with how long is it going to take and when is the turn going to be.

[62:07]

Slight shift away from like actually enjoying this opportunity to, you know, just not being there. And being into something that is, if you think about it, is really, under a lot of circumstances, in my case anyway, totally irrelevant inconsequential, a waste of time. And that waste of time somehow draws you away from a great opportunity to meditate. Then, of course, put it positively if you can appreciate being in the line. Smell the gas, huh? Smell the gas? Is it from the truck? You open the things up, you smell it better. If you can use the opportunity of being in line there, then you have a chance of using the opportunity to walk into the security check.

[63:13]

Then the walk from the checking area to the security area is like, you know, one could describe it in glorious terms. I mean, it could be a great walk from one place to the other. Because you wouldn't, especially like I say in my case, I was not in a hurry. You're not in a hurry. You don't have to worry about this. I mean, I didn't have to worry. And if you can do the line, you can do the walk. I mean, do the walk means... You can enjoy the experience. And then you can enjoy the experience of going through. You can enjoy the experience of being in the waiting area. Each situation is perfectly what we call opportunity employer. A good opportunity for this kind of meditation. Whether you're in a receptive non-karmic state or whether you're in an active karmic state, either way, you have a good opportunity to see which is which and you learn from both.

[64:19]

Anyway, I kind of lost it there. I noticed I kind of lost track. I lost the thread, and I was waiting in line. My mind veered away, and I was more concerned for this unimportant thing than for the present. I recovered it, I think, by the time I got on the plane. They also switched my seat in the process. So, I was going to say, in the Zen door, I was going to say, now notice the mode, notice your mode. Are you in an active karmic mode or are you in a receptive mode? I was going to say that. Check it out. And then, you can do this in future periods. What's your state? Are you actually thinking of doing actions? Are you actually like in a mental karmic state there? Or in a receptive state? Which is it? And are they alternating? And which is predominant?

[65:21]

And when I was sitting there, I was predominantly in a receptive mode, but then I thought of saying this thing to you, which I would consider to be wholesome karma. My intention was to give you a meditation exercise for your benefit. I wanted it to help you. I felt happy thinking it, and now I'm telling you about it. But I wasn't sure if I should say it during the meditation, so I didn't. So thank you now. So the exercise I'm suggesting you check out, active state of karma here, the final karma. Like I want to move, I'm restless, I want to move, I want to sit, I'm sitting up, I'm making a good effort, I'm enjoying making an effort to sit up straight, I enjoy this, this is what I want to do, I think it's wholesome, or what? Or are you mostly sitting on, I'm sitting up straight and then... Is it mostly that or which is it?

[66:28]

And then when the bell rings, watch and see. If you're in an accepted mode, particularly, watch and see what happens when the bell rings. Then there's this kind of like impulse, [...] get up, impulse, impulse. Or when you get up, you stay in an accepted mode. What happens? Notice that. You would sit and notice what happens when the bell rings. Watch that happen. And what's the qualitative difference between the way you were just before the bell rang and when the bell rang and after the bell rang? Check that out. That's all I'm going to say. Just something to watch and put in future periods. Okay. Pardon? The ideal way to eat is awake. Awake and clearly aware. That's the ideal. No. If you're in an inceptive mood, you're awake and clear.

[67:41]

If you're in active mode, you're awake and clear. If you're in positive, you're in. And if you're in the awake and clearness part, the part that will set you free from whatever state you're in. What question was there? The same. Yes. But it would be funny, I think a little unusual, to spend the whole period of Zazen solidly filled with impulse after impulse. That would be kind of, that would be very obsessive. And I wouldn't say that you shouldn't do that, but I would say that if all your periods were like that, I might suggest, why don't you give it a break, give it a rest, I'm super lenient about fascist mind control.

[68:44]

I'm not into that. But if you like a jam-packed full of action impulses while you're sitting, I think that's a bit much. It would be good to put them aside for a while. Some people say just cast aside all that karma. But I don't think so. Because that's also kind of karma. Yeah, right, that could be, except you have been given a little assignment there to not move. and to step straight, and keep your eyes open, keep your tongue in your mouth, make a move there. He did have a little assignment there. So in fact, if you were just receptive, totally receptive, you wouldn't be able to sit up unless, I don't think so.

[69:52]

I don't think that would happen. Now, if you're receptive in the sense that you're beyond common, then you're also beyond reception. But if you're still in the realm of what's happening in your mind, if you're sitting up, your mind would have the shape of the sitting posture. But you wouldn't necessarily have it have to have self interjected there. But one of the ingredients of upright sitting is that your mind would be shaped around that posture. There's a little upright posture shape in your mind that goes with the body being in that shape. So that's why I say if you look at the watershed of an awakened person's mind, their watershed would have shapes corresponding to their physical posture. It would be that corresponding. If they did a flip,

[70:55]

You know, you'd mark something would happen in their brain. You could judge them to flip, I think. If they raised their hand, you know, like this, something would happen over here. If they raised their right hand, something would happen over on the left side of their brain. Okay? So if you're sitting in this posture, the brain would manifest, the brain would, you know, you could tell by looking at the brain that the person was doing it. it would correspond to, in the mind, so that it would be this thing. That puts you out of thought. Now, one possibility, there is one exception to the obsession thing. I don't know why, it's not an exception to the obsession, it is an obsession, but it's an obsession that's allowed in tradition. And that's the obsession. Every moment of thought is about the posture. In a whole period of meditation where there's no reception at all. You can't hear the birds.

[71:56]

You can't see the wall or the floor. You don't hear anything. You don't taste anything. You don't feel anything. Every moment is action. And every action is, every thought, every kind of thought is posture. That one will be allowed. And then you'll be thrown into a trance, a body trance. It's okay to do that. But it is obsessive. That's an obsession. And it's also compulsive, if your body corresponds to it. So to some extent, Buddhism allows obsessive-compulsive meditation practice. But that's one I would say would be all right. If you're going to like obsessively, you know, constantly, unswervingly think of shopping during the whole period, I think that maybe you should discuss that with your meditation instructor before.

[72:57]

But that might be all right, too. If you really try to do it and really try to concentrate on shopping the whole time, that would be okay. You can go into a shopping trance. That might be all right. It depends on what you're shopping for. Yeah, so that could be wholesome or unwholesome, depending on the pattern of concentration in the activity. Yes. Yes. No. Not necessarily, but it could be. I mean, but the point is that it could be a bowl, it could be a platter, it could be a field.

[73:59]

But the point is, if the rain fell... What? If the rain fell on it, the rain would just fall and land. It wouldn't run. So there'd be no inclination. There'd just be everything, where everything happened, there'd just be a seed. So it could be a bowl, it could be flat too. In some sense, flat might be better than a bowl, because a bowl still might be a little bit of movement towards, some of the bowl might sink in the water and run down. So maybe a flat surface is better, but I'd like with a slight curve to contain. But you wouldn't necessarily feel that, Just like when you hear something, you don't necessarily feel like your mind is kind of like catchers in the pond. But in fact... of constant movement.

[75:10]

Do you want it? Well. So now back to, now this is closed parentheses, back to the topic which used to be a parentheses, but now is the topic. And that is karma has retribution of fruit. So is the maha-mangala-sutta in that dependent?

[76:15]

Maha-mangala-sutta. The Buddha talks about three factors which are auspicious in the life of the person. One is merit acquired in the past. The other is life. The second is life in appropriate surroundings. And the third is proper resolve or application. So those are auspicious things to have in your life. But there are also three categories which determine the way results mature anyway. These are auspicious. Merit, acquired in the past, life in appropriate surroundings, and proper resolve or application. Merit, life in appropriate surroundings, and proper resolve or application.

[77:33]

Now, you could also, so in other words, one of the ingredients is what sometimes people think is the only thing that determines what happens to you. Okay, so something's happening, right? If we could say, oh, that's because of Kung. Well, one of the things that determines what happens is the merit or demerit of what you've done in the past. That's one very important thing which determines the results that you're now experiencing. But the other things are the surroundings and your present result, which is your present mental karma. So those three factors determine your experience right now, and right now, and right now. Not just what you did in the past. What you did in the past is one of the things, an important one, for determining what happens now.

[78:40]

But I want to say that from the point of view of liberation, the fact that karma is one of the factors determining what happens now is not as important as the fact that karma not just a determinant for what you experience, but karma is a determinant for your evolution. It both is an important ingredient in determining the experiences you're having, but also it is an evolutionary factor in the midst of whatever experience you're having. It both has effects, and it also has effects in terms of what happens, and also effects in terms of evolution. But I think a lot of people think nowadays, in what's called spiritual community in the West, a lot of people say, oh yeah, karma's important, so if you get sick, that's because of your karma. Well, your karma has something to do with it.

[79:44]

That's not the only fact. If you feel pain, comment has something to do with it. That's not the only factor. And something might happen. Yes, Grace? Do you have an answer? I just complete what I have. Problem, question, figure, ever. It has to do not so much with is with the whole idea of merit or fruition in the past. You know, It's one sort of distant path that I can't, that my body doesn't like too much. And it seems to me that there's something, sort of a tent we have to take on stage. or actually see, and some people, I mean, the way that I can understand it is if I take the psychological path, if I look at, let's say, my grandson's life, and I look at some part of my own life that has something to do with

[81:02]

which is either the fruition of something that seems to say so, but I can't understand it depending on my own actions and my own future. I guess I'm asking, is there a way to do this the same way? Most Buddhists, of course, do not have the ability to actually see how karma works. Right now. And also they don't have the ability to see how karma works. influences where you go. Most people cannot see that. So, but to take it on, to say then, take it on faith, I don't know, there's some, you can take it on faith, but another way to do it is, what do you do?

[82:12]

Take it on faith for almost like, you could also take it on fear, take it as a theory, rather than faith. You may be able to see some workings of karma, but not all of them. Or you might be able to understand some realms of karma, but some others don't make sense to you. but it might be that the very ones that don't make sense to you are the ones that you can, some examples of how common works make sense to you, some others don't necessarily make sense to you, but when you hear about some other teachings, it does make sense to you, but those teachings are the ones that may not be verified. So for example, the famous one is, you see that people who seem to be doing fun, wholesome acts seem to be fine,

[83:14]

People who seem to be working hard seem to be in trouble, particularly in terms of wealth. We see wealthy people who don't see the virtue. We see some poor people who are quite virtuous. So we say, if wholesome karma leads to wealth and health, how come these people who seem to be fairly virtuous are sickly poor, and these people who seem to be not so kind convert to a scenic and healthy bridge. And even maybe they're using their health and power to... Is that cat supposed to be here? Or did they put in any policy about it? Well, the door's open. We can roll you down. Can we close the door now? That particular cat is... A little bit more destructive than most, right?

[84:19]

So, and it just turns out that there's this Buddhist teaching that karma matures in three lifetimes. So that one is part of the way you make sense of the fact. So the classical example, not a classical example, which is maybe more like a caricature, the Buddha said, is that two people, two men, lived a life, and one of them did nothing but good karma his whole life. The other one did nothing but bad karma his whole life. When the one who had good karma was about to die, he got some kind of premonition or vision of where he was going. And sure enough, where was he going? He was going to hell. What did he think? He didn't think. Oh, I did all that good karma. That was a waste of time. Look what happened to me. And I thought, oh, well, I did good karma. That's for sure. It looks like I'm going to hell now. Well, probably the reason I'm going to hell is because of some misdeeds I did which I don't know.

[85:24]

And then he kind of said, I've changed the story slightly. He said, well, the laws of karma really are true. and suddenly the vision of hell dropped away and heaven manifested. So a moment of faith in the laws that cause an effect at the moment of death sometimes has a really powerful beneficial effect. But it isn't, you see, the law of karma in this case isn't that the manifestation of the law of the fruition of the karma as manifesting in a vision of hell. He did all that good karma, so what he got there was a vision of hell. That was the maturing of some past karma. In response to this vision of hell, what did he do? He kept practicing. Oh, cause and effect. Here we go. What's this going to be? And that response made that vision what all there was to it.

[86:29]

It was just a vision. Now, if he had said, in response to that vision, if he'd committed the act of really a bunch of bunk, that thought would be sufficient to send most people to be on for hell, is that thought. So all that he cut this movie by advertising for hell appeared to him as he had done it. It would be easy for that to just be that and drop away because his faith in cause and effect is so strong. And his good life plus his faith continuing in the face of this hellish manifestation. So this is an example of something appears, right? Something happens. What is it? Vision of hell. How did it happen? It happens now in conjunction with the surroundings. It's part of the surroundings. It's past karma that's part of why it happened, but its present resolve is, I don't regret doing good karma, and law of cause and effect does work, and I'll probably continue to do my best even wherever I'm going.

[87:43]

And that determines the overall quality of the event. Would you say proper use of application is, is it weighted for them that more important for most people in the student? Yes. By far. Way, way, by far. But they are important, too, because sometimes the other is so strong that it's almost impossible for us to challenge that present result. Something really obnoxious manifests, which is partly due to past karma, but not just that, also due to circumstances. What? Yeah. But it's not just past karma. It's also environmental circumstances that manifest, and then we think,

[88:47]

You know, am I really going to keep practicing, you know, meditation and karma, you know, and all that stuff? And then, it is important. Second-person is important. That's why we don't want to, like, make things too hard on yourself. That's why you should do good karma. But your present resolve, it's really, really what actually sets you free. Could you just give up the other one? Yeah.

[89:20]

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