The chant we just recited was apparently composed by a Rinzai Zen master named Tode. So this morning we did a Bodhisattva Vow Arousal chant written by a so-called Soto Zen ancestor and this one we just did was by a Rinzai Zen ancestor. So both Rinzai and Soto Zen

[01:07]

are Bodhisattva traditions. Before talking about training and the essence of training in Bodhisattva ethics, I wondered if there's any response you had from this morning you care to express? Yes. I aspire to become a Bodhisattva and to save all beings. I feel that you ought to aspire to smaller increments rather than these monumental aspirations, because

[02:10]

you set yourself up for failure. Well, that teaching may have been expressed and I don't exactly disagree with it, but there's a difference between lofty aspirations and practices which are too advanced. So we actually do recommend as part of heroic effort that you be careful not to commit to practices which are too advanced, or training methods which are too advanced. But advanced training methods are different than virtually, inconceivably vast aspirations. So for example, you might aspire to realize Buddhahood and then one of the training methods

[03:14]

might be to sit still. So then you might try to sit still for one week without moving. But that might be too much. You might not be able to do that in a healthy way. So in a case like that, you probably should consider beforehand, is that really something I probably could follow through on? And you might think, well actually I haven't even been able to sit one day all the way without moving at all, so that would be probably too much. So I probably shouldn't try that. So generally speaking, we are encouraged to enter training commitments that we think we have a pretty good chance of being able to follow through on, with the awareness that as we get into them, we might say, boy this is really hard, I don't know if I can do it. But when I signed up for it, I thought I

[04:21]

could. So maybe I can. Also, it's often a good idea when you, both when you make an aspiration, but also when you make a commitment to a practice, it's good to discuss with the teacher who you're training with. So part, which I'll get into, part of Bodhisattva ethics, part of Bodhisattva training, is that you don't just decide in the training by yourself, you receive the training from somebody. And I would not recommend, and I don't recommend, people doing seven-day satsangs at Green Gulch if they haven't done one-day sittings. So we have a requirement that they do two one-day sittings at Green Gulch before they try the satsang. And if I saw someone do a one-day sitting and I saw that they were having trouble sitting still during the sitting, either on the floor or in a chair, I would, if they asked me, I would say, why don't you do some more one-day

[05:23]

sittings before you try seven? So it is, again, generally recommended not to try some practice, some good practice. It's okay to try bad practices and then quit. If you're doing something wholesome, no problem of giving up on it. But if you commit to something that you think would be beneficial and that people agree that it is conducive to realizing awakening, those practices, it's not good to start them and quit. So most people who sign up for seven-day sittings, seven-day satsangs, most people who do two-month, three-month practice periods, as they get into it, most people say, this is really hard. I made a mistake. Maybe I should leave. But again,

[06:24]

if you receive and commit to the teaching together with a teacher, then if you want to get out of the teaching, it's also good to talk to the teacher. So then people come to me, for example, and they say, I think maybe I should leave this practice period. I should leave this session. And then I talk to them and I say, well, why don't you just settle down with the situation? And then if you settle down and you really think it's best to leave, I support it. And they usually don't come back and say that they settle down and they want to do it. But sometimes they do. And I say, I support you to go. Because the important thing is that you don't push yourself so hard that you quit. So I'm pretty careful when people are taking on more and more challenging practices, to help

[07:27]

assess whether they really think that they have competence, that they probably will be able to finish, even though in the process they may think, I can't keep doing this, or this is too much, or I want to quit. Feeling that way doesn't mean you can't follow through. It's just a normal thing. If you're taking on something which is right at your limit, you probably will have some doubts along the way, and that's why you need support. You don't enter into the training, but in Bodhisattva training you do not enter into it unilaterally. You receive the training, you receive the training, you receive the training from another. But you don't exactly receive the aspiration from another. Aspiration is different than the training. So the aspiration to realize supreme awakening,

[08:29]

Buddhahood, for the welfare of all beings, it's not given to you by Buddha. That's a difference. And you don't make it up by yourself. The aspiration to realize Buddhahood is a communal event. It's a communion. It's a meeting between you and supreme goodness. It's a meeting between an ordinary person, like me and you, and something really inconceivably wonderful, beyond anything and beyond any conception. But somehow, when we meet that, when we commune with that, this wish to realize that, that goodness, that greatness, that wisdom and compassion which helps all beings, we wish to realize it, we wish to work for it. That's the aspiration. Then the question is what

[09:33]

practices follow from that? Pretty much since the first time I thought of practicing Zen, my aspiration has not really, I never really lost it. I never changed my mind. When I heard about, for example, Tore Zenji's teacher is Hakuin Zenji, another Rinzai Zen teacher. I heard some stories about him. And when I heard those stories, I thought, cool, I want to do that. I want to be like that. I have never not wanted to be the way I wanted to be. Never. That never changed. But did I forget occasionally? Yes. Forget means I forgot that, and then what did I do when I forgot? Well, I probably forgot to do the trainings which go with it. So we fail at the trainings. We don't realize our aspiration, but that's like saying between now and Buddhahood you're failing at Buddhahood. Yeah, I guess so. But not really. If you're doing the practices which are appropriate

[10:39]

to Buddhahood, you're not failing at Buddhahood. But when you don't do the practices, or you don't follow through on the practices that are apropos of Buddhahood and benefiting beings, then at that time, you have not followed through. And that's part of the essence of ethical training, is the issue of how do you deal with not following through. So we do not give, we do not, like when children come to Zen Center, we do not have them sit seven day sashins. We have a coming of age program, you know about that? Yeah, we don't have these 14 year old boys and girls, or 13, 14 year old boys, we don't have them go and sit seven day sashins. Do they do any sitting as part of the program? Yeah, a little. But 10 years from now, they may be wanting to try that, and even then,

[11:43]

it will be difficult, probably, for most of them, to sit cross-legged for seven days. So we usually say, well, why don't you try one period? Even that's hard. So I used to say to people who wanted to do one day sittings, they say, well, when do I know I'm ready for one day sitting? I say, well, I don't know exactly, but if you can do two periods of sitting, if you can sit, do walking meditation and sit, if that works for you, that's sort of what a one day sitting is like. So when you're comfortable doing two periods, you can try a one day sitting. When you're comfortable doing a one day sitting, you can try a seven day sitting or a five day sitting. But as you know, the second day is not the same as the first day. Second day is harder than the first day, and the third day is usually as hard as the second day or harder. But then, as you know, the fourth day, it's not exactly easier, you just sort of like, you know, you're more mature about it. And the fifth day, you're

[12:46]

kind of like, kind of settled with it. And the sixth day, you think, well, geez, this is great. It's hard, but this is wonderful. And the seventh day, you start planning for, you know, the end of the Sashim. So we don't make the seventh day very long, because we don't want you to waste much more time. So it's very important not to take on disciplines, trainings, that you don't think you could follow through on. But it's okay to take on things that you think might really be challenging, but still do it with some consultation, so that the person you're consulting with is ready to support you when you hit the wall, so to speak. And even then, it isn't the end of the world if you don't follow through. It's just somewhat damaging to commit to a practice and then not do it. To commit to ethical training and not follow through is very painful. To commit to doing bad and not following through

[13:53]

is really painful. To commit to ethical training and follow through is very, very, very happy. To commit to evil and not follow through is also pretty happy. It's almost worse to commit to good and not do it than to commit to evil and do it. Almost worse, I don't know. They're kind of the same in the sense that in both cases you're doing evil, but in one case you feel worse because you don't want to. So yeah, I don't think... but I do think that people should not force you into making aspirations. So I heard that in some contemporary organizations, which are sometimes called religions, they get children to make like infinite vows, like commit to practice that tradition for a billion

[14:54]

years. They sort of force the kids at the age of our Coming of Age program. They force them to do that. I think that that's too young to make a commitment like that, maybe. But they should never be forced. So I hope I'm not forcing anybody to make the inconceivable bodhisattva vow. You don't feel forced by me, do you? No, but I would like to know what kind of training you're referring to other than sitting. Other than sitting? For some lay practitioners. You would like to know? Yes. Okay, well keep listening, you'll hear about it. But I'm not saying it's other than sitting. It isn't other than sitting, but that's what I brought up, is that I was planning on discussing with you for quite a while, bodhisattva training and ethics that includes sitting.

[16:00]

So you will hear about that. And you said you'd like to, so remember that. You're pre-agreeing to like, right? Any other feedback? Yes? I'd love to express my gratitude one more time for the teachings, because I know in the past I was not willing or I was afraid to come forward to commit, but the more I hear you and the more I hear the teachings, I'm feeling like I'm just starting, and it's such an honor, I'm just grateful just to start. Thank you for the feedback. Yes? The feedback that I have to offer is you brought up the issue of religions and coming of age, and I've been thinking a little

[17:11]

about that recently, and how I view teachers in this tradition, or really any tradition, and that is that I view them more as moderators than mediators. Moderators rather than mediators? So in other words, I don't feel like the Buddha is coming through you to teach all of us, but when you're present, you're present. So it's a question of situational relevance as opposed to like, getting something through a teacher. Okay. Situational relevance rather than getting something from a teacher. Would that also be the same as situational relevance as opposed to getting something to a teacher? Well, I think that that's what I mean. It's a two-way street. I don't feel that,

[18:17]

I feel that in a sense as lay practitioners, we are our own teachers in a way, because we're in situations where we view the rest of the world as our teachers. Oh yeah, this thing about you're your own teacher, be careful of that please. You're not your own teacher. Okay. If somebody who thinks they're their own teacher, needs a teacher who's not them. Right, which I feel like we have. Okay, I'm just pointing out, you just said, I feel like we're our own teachers. I'm just saying you're not your own teacher. Other people are your teacher. And at a certain point, I feel like we have to make decisions about our practices and what we're doing and not doing without getting guidance from a teacher. That's not Buddhism, to be making decisions about what

[19:24]

you do and not do without getting guidance from teachers. That's not Buddhism. I don't know what you want to call it, but Buddhism, you get guidance from teachers on everything you do. You always are practicing together with the teachers, you're not practicing by yourself. Buddhism is to practice with the Buddhas, who are our teachers. But Buddhism is practicing with teachers is not to get something from the teacher. Buddhism is not about getting anything. Buddhism is about giving and receiving. And that's situational. Buddhism is about teachers and students being together and giving and receiving together. It's not about students being on their own and doing stuff without the guidance of teachers. That's not what it's about. And the Buddhas tell us that.

[20:28]

They say, I didn't become a Buddha by being my own teacher, and me deciding what I would do. I became a Buddha by listening to Buddhas and practicing together with them. So we need to learn how to always be functioning, totally following through on the teachings which the Buddhas have given us, and not making up anything on our own. Well, we're never making anything up on our own. That's not what I'm saying. I didn't say you're saying that, but people think they're making up stuff on their own, don't they? Most people do. I don't know about you, but most people I've heard about think they make things up on their own. They think they lift their hand on their own. They think they think on their own. I can do what I want. I'm in complete control. That's what I tell myself.

[21:30]

This is the song for most people. So how can you learn, how can we learn that what you're doing is being guided by the teachings of the great vehicle? How can you receive Buddhas teaching while you're talking, while you're thinking? This is ethical training. That you have received ethics, and when you do things, you act under the auspices of the teachings which you've received about how to act. That you remember to receive teachings all day long, and to give teachings all day long. And one of the teachings is, one of the ethical teachings is, do not try to get anything. Do not try to get something from a teacher. So if you feel like the Buddha way is not getting things from teachers, I agree. But if you think you don't need teacher's guidance,

[22:36]

I don't agree. Well, I have a lot more to say, but I don't want to take up any more class time. Again, you said I don't want to take up any class time. You're not going to take any class time. You cannot do that. It's given to you. You didn't take any class time up to this point. It was given to you. I invited you to speak, and you did. You were invited. But I don't feel heard right now. You don't feel heard right now? No. When I just said that, did you feel heard? When you just said that, did I feel heard? No. No. What do I need to do to make you feel heard? I think maybe speak with me privately at another time when there's not so many people in the room, because I feel that I'm making a specific point about guidance. Yeah, again, you're making a

[23:42]

specific point. You're just being unilateral, too unilateral. You've got to give that up as soon as possible and start cooperating with your teachers. Well, I feel like you offered for us to give you feedback. Yeah, I did. I invited it, and you gave it to me, and then I thought maybe you wanted feedback from me, because I thought you asked me for that many times. Didn't you? I did. Yeah, so then I gave you feedback. I told you that what you said is not in accord with the Buddhadharma. That's the feedback I gave you. And you told me you didn't feel like I heard you, and I heard you say that, and you thought I didn't hear you say that. Yeah. And I received that, too. Okay. And I hear you still don't feel heard.

[24:46]

Is that enough for you now? That is. Okay. Yes? I'm thinking maybe this relates to what she's saying. There's sort of a funny place here where, you know, I want to work with a teacher, and I want to work with you, and I'm an adult. I'm an adult. I'm not a little child, so that plays into how we are together, I think. Yeah. And there's some notion about... I think that's what the question is, is like, how to be adult and be the adult that we are in that context. Yeah. So are you saying that for you, there's a question of how to be an adult in relationship with a teacher? Yeah. Do you have any idea of how to be an adult in relationship with a teacher? I think it's something I try to work out, you know, probably every time I talk with you,

[25:52]

you know, because there's great respect. There's great respect, but I don't want to go into the position of being a child, because I'm not exactly that. And what is the position of being a child in relationship to someone you respect? In kind of giving up my own discrimination. Giving up your own discrimination? How about giving up your own responsibility? Yeah, okay, that's good. Or my own experience. Or your responsibility for your experience. Being an adult involves learning the right understanding of your responsibility and taking care of your responsibility. When in the presence of someone you respect, especially someone you think who's carrying or

[26:52]

accepting or caring for a great deal of responsibility, and you respect them for all the responsibility they're taking care of, sometimes what you think is that you don't have to be responsible. That's childlike, right? So we look at our parents who are being so responsible, we're so grateful to them, and we think, well, they're responsible for, you know, taking care of the house and taking care of the kids and taking care of each other. They're responsible and I'm not. That's one child's version. That's when things are going well, they think that. But when things aren't going well, then sometimes they flip to the other side and say, I'm responsible. It's my fault or I got to make this work. When their mother is depressed or their father's crazy or drunk, they think this is my responsibility. They don't respect the person anymore. They don't think that they're struggling with their responsibility anymore. So then they

[27:56]

take it all. So children take too much or too little. So being an adult involves finding the appropriate responsibility in relationship, of realizing I'm responsible and so is she. She doesn't have it all, I don't have it all, and that's much more complicated than she's got it or I've got it. But we don't go instantly from she's got it and I've got it to finding that constantly changing dance of discovering our appropriate responsibility. And even if we find it, then things change and it's another one and it's another one. So yeah, our responsibility is constantly changing and we do have a responsibility all the time and everybody we relate to does too. Working with that is working with becoming an adult. So with someone you don't respect, then you probably think, well, they've got no responsibility.

[28:59]

I'm the parent here. With someone you do respect, you can shift over to think they're in charge, they decide, but that's not adult. Anything else you want to say before I say a little bit about something else? I'd just like to express this, I think if we just meet the teacher. Meet the teacher? Meeting the teacher. I think all of this. Yeah, meeting the teacher could mean, if I say meet the teacher, if I say meet the Buddha, that means except I have a responsibility in relationship with the teacher and the teacher has a responsibility in relating to me. And that leads to the possibility of a meeting. And it's in the meeting that the truth is realized. And not just with the teacher,

[30:00]

it's just that the teachers are the ones who teach us how to enter the meeting space. Because they become teachers by having had experience in meeting. Having experience of accepting their own responsibility together with somebody else who's accepting his responsibility. And then seeing what happens then. What time is it now? Okay. Yes. Do you feel like you have time for me to make a comment before we move on to the next thing? I just wanted to say you didn't feel heard. I don't know if I heard you but a couple things came to my mind after what you said. One was part of the ordination ceremony which makes an emphasis on now all beings are your teacher. I heard you say that too. And I wonder for myself

[31:03]

how to learn to interact with all beings as my teacher. Or I remember that admonition in the ceremony. And I kind of think of the formal teacher relationship as kind of a like you're the stand-in for all beings or each being. So I get a lot of practice interacting with you as my teacher. And then trying to apply this to everybody. I don't know if this feels like it has any relevance for you, Abby, what came to mind when you mentioned it. And I remember the second thing. Oh, the boatman was the other thing that came to mind. The end of the koan is very provocative. The disciple is supposedly enlightened and walking away.

[32:06]

But he keeps looking back at the teacher. And then the teacher at some point says, what does he say? He raised his oar and said, is there anything else? Or do you say that there's something more? Or in another translation, there's more. Or in another translation, something similar. Which to me suggests a deep entrusting that the teacher does with the student over time, I suspect. But that there's an entrusting process. And there must be. Otherwise, what hope will there be to interact with all beings as my teacher? Well, I think it's maybe beneficial words to say that there's a deep entrustment over time. But it's both directions, right? Right.

[33:11]

And this teaching that all beings are our teacher does not mean that I'm my teacher. So it's that I relate to everybody else as my teacher. And I treat everybody else as though I respected them. I learned to respect everybody as though they were my teacher. As I learned to find a way to treat other people as though they were responsible too. And they become that way. And the theory is if you do that, everybody will become that way. And that's the reason you're doing it. Because some people seem like they're children, and they're not yet ready to accept their responsibility. But if you treat them as though you respect them, and they feel that respect, then they trust you. And then they trust that they could trust

[34:15]

themselves to accept their responsibility. And then you also see them do that. And then that encourages you to accept your responsibility. So in this way, the maturity is mutual. I don't want to speak for you, but... Well, please speak for yourself then. But from what I got from what Abby was saying, she made a reference to being a lay practitioner. And as lay practitioners, we don't always have the luxury of having a teacher accessible. On a weekly basis. So sometimes we have to act as our own teacher. Sometimes you have to what? Act as our own teacher. Yeah, well, I'm just saying that's not Buddhism. You're not around. I'm just saying that's not Buddha way, to act as your own teacher. So what do you suggest when you're not around? What do we do? What do I suggest when I'm not around? Yeah, what... What do I do when I'm not around?

[35:16]

What do your students do? What do I do? What do I do when I'm not around? I come around. So the priests, the priests who are training at Green Gulch, you know, they also don't get to see me all the time, and they complain about it. So to actually see the teacher face to face, you don't do that all the time. So what do you do when you don't see the teacher? How do you receive the teacher's guidance when you can't see the teacher's face? Well, so tell me, how do you do it? You don't do it by getting the teaching from yourself. What do you do? You remember the teacher's teaching. You're mindful of the teacher's teaching. I can't see Shakyamuni Buddha until I remember Shakyamuni Buddha's teaching. And when I remember Shakyamuni Buddha's teaching and I practice it, I see Shakyamuni Buddha. Seeing Shakyamuni Buddha means, for you to see Shakyamuni Buddha

[36:22]

is to see yourself doing the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha. You doing the practice of Shakyamuni Buddha is Shakyamuni Buddha. It's not somebody separate from you. It's you doing the practices which have come from that source. And if I've ever taught you anything beneficial and you practice it, I'm there with you at that time. I'm nothing in addition to the good things I've told you. But if you don't practice them, then I'm something in addition, and then we're separated. Then where am I? Well, where I am is when you remember what you've learned, I'm there. And whether you're living in Green Gulch and in the same room as me, or living in the city in a different place, when you remember the teachings, you're receiving the teacher's guidance. And the Bodhisattva ethics have two parts. One part is the lay part, the householder part.

[37:23]

The other part is the monastic part. But isn't that one part better than the other? In both cases, both parts receive these teachings. And then both parts practice these teachings. But neither part, the monastics don't make up the teaching on their own. And in both parts, when you can't see the teacher, you practice the teacher's teachings. And when you practice the teacher's teachings, that's what it means to see the teacher. And when you forget, even if the teacher's right in front of you, you know, and making faces at you, and you forget to do the teachings of the teacher, you don't see the teacher. You just see somebody who you think's not you. And the teacher taught you that the teacher wasn't somebody other than you, but you don't believe it. Or you believe that at the time, but you're not practicing, you're not remembering right now, I'm being talked to by somebody who's not separate from me. So that's what a Buddhist teacher is,

[38:26]

is somebody who's not separate from you. When you remember that and practice it, the teacher's in your face. When you forget it, then you have not followed through on the teaching. But then we have practices for that, which I'll talk about, but maybe not today. But I have five more minutes. So I'll just mention the ethics of bodhisattva ethics, the essence of bodhisattva ethics, which is somewhat apropos by coincidence. The essence of bodhisattva precepts has four qualities. First, these ethical trainings are correctly received from someone else. Second, is that in the essence of precepts,

[39:35]

we have quite purified intention. Quite. It doesn't have to be just fully purified, just quite purified. Like for example, you wish to live for the welfare of others, you wish to develop wisdom and compassion so that you can effectively live for the welfare of others. You want to do all this for the welfare of others. This is quite a pure intention. But it's not perfect because you're not yet fully awake. But you have enough of a pure intention that you actually want to practice these things which you have correctly received from someone else. Those are the first two points, first two qualities of the essence of ethical training for bodhisattvas. The next one is that you remedy or correct after you do not follow through on what you've received.

[40:44]

And the next one is, you actually avoid not following through. And in this process you generate respect for the teachings which you have correctly received and which you always wanted to practice. But now you actually have so much respect for them that you always practice them. Yes? How do you want to avoid not following through? By having so much respect that you do. And you get respect by correctly receiving them, wanting to practice them, and repeatedly correcting the not following through. So the first two, the correct receiving from another

[41:48]

together with the wish to practice them for the welfare of others, those two produce the next two. Those two produce correcting or remedying not following through by following through. And by repeatedly doing that, the first three, correct reception from another, not from yourself, but from another. And then when you see this thing, you've received it, you know, like when I see the story of Hakuin Zenji, I receive it from another, not from me, and I think, I want to practice that. That would really make everybody happy. And then, noticing that I don't, but correcting it over and over, then you come, those first three produce the fourth. When you actually get to a place where you have so much respect for the ethical trainings that you actually do not, you actually start following through each time.

[42:50]

Well, for example, if you, for example, if you hear a precept about not praising yourself at the expense of others, and you notice that you just did it, then you confess it, and you confess it in the presence of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and a co-practitioner dash a confessor, somebody who's mature enough to hear your confession. And then you try again to do it. The next thing you say, you try to say without praising yourself at the expense of others. Or if you lie and you notice it, you notice it, you contemplate it, you confess it, you see how you feel about it, and you realize that you want to go back and try again. And you do that over and over, until your respect for whatever this thing is grows in this process.

[43:57]

Until it's a really strong thing that you really do not want to eat poison anymore. You've done it enough times, and watched how you felt, and articulated that you've just eaten poison enough, so that you kind of feel like, wow, I actually don't want to eat it anymore. I'm done. But you have to sort of slow down a little bit in the process, and notice how that tastes bad. And then even that might not be enough, so you have to sort of verbally express that it tastes bad, to somebody who can listen to you. Yes? Oh, by the way, this is what a Sangha teaches as the essence of the Bodhisattva ethics. Essence of ethics. Yes?

[44:58]

What is correctly receiving? Pardon? What is correctly receiving? Yeah, what's correct about the receiving? Well, it would be, um, I guess, it would be something that you would be clear about what was correct and what was incorrect. It would be something that you would be probably taught about, what would be the correct and incorrect way of receiving it. It would include those kinds of indications. It would have some form that you could check on and agree upon. For example, I just mentioned that an incorrect way of receiving ethical discipline would be to think that somebody was forcing it upon you. That would be incorrect. To think that somebody else was responsible for the practice of it, other than you, would be incorrect. To think that you're going to do it by yourself, that you're responsible by yourself to do these practices, would be incorrect. So when we do Bodhisattva precepts,

[46:01]

actually there's quite a bit of discussion about what's going on here, and who is responsible, and whether the responsibility is shared, and so on and so forth. And what do these precepts mean? And how are they practiced? And how do they apply in this situation? And in this situation, I felt like I didn't follow through on this precept. And like sometimes people tell me, I didn't follow through on that precept. And I say, I don't understand what you mean. I don't see why you didn't. And then they tell me the rest of the sentence. You know, they only told me half of the story. In other words, they didn't really have the ability to say what they did. So they actually weren't aware of how to say it in a way that actually captured the not following through. Matter of fact, they didn't even follow through on the confession. So then they finish the confession, and then I get it. I say, oh, I see. You didn't follow through. And then we say, now do you want it?

[47:02]

Next time, do you want to follow through? And they say, yeah. So that would be an example of part of correctly receiving. Or actually, that would follow from correctly receiving. That they would be clear about the precepts. So in that case, they might say, I might say afterwards that I agree with your understanding of that precept. On the other hand, someone might say, blah, blah, blah. And I might say, you know, I don't think your understanding is correct. I think you didn't violate that precept. I don't think that was lying. I don't think that was stealing. In other words, I often use the example if someone says, I took that from you. And I say, no, you didn't. I gave it to you. Now, some people, if you say, I took that from you, they might say, yes, you did. So in that case, when the person says, yes, you did, and you think you did, well, then in a way, you can work on that. But sometimes, part of the correct reception is that you're open to feedback

[48:04]

on whether you're doing it. Which means open to feedback about what the precept means. Yes? So when we're practicing in the world, and the thought arises, wow, I have to make some decisions about my practice. Yeah. It's really helpful to have team support, to have peer support. It's also very helpful, of course, to have teacher support. And I'm wondering if there is a way this year, where some of us can get together informally, as some of us in the sangha have tried to do periodically, as householders, to sit together and to check in. Either here, once a month, or someplace else.

[49:07]

So you're wondering about that, and you're expressing that in this group. And where does the teacher come in to play here? Well, you play with all of us anyway. You're already here. Yeah. And so... And so? I would welcome the opportunity to have some type of organized peer-to-peer sitting and informal discussion. In addition to... In addition to? Studying with you, which of course is why we're all here. Okay, well, I think that's a really good idea. And do I have some responsibility in this matter? I would welcome that.

[50:07]

You'd welcome me to have some responsibility? And what is my responsibility that you welcome? You're already fulfilling the responsibility. And what is that? I'm happy to hear that, by the way. But what is it that I'm... What responsibility am I fulfilling vis-a-vis this succession you just made? Saying that you thought that it was a good idea? Yeah, that's one way I did it. How else am I doing it? How else are you doing it? Either how else am I doing it, or could you articulate more about my responsibility? I don't really have much more to say about what I think your responsibility is in this situation. Okay. Do you? I do. How about feedback? His feedback. Would that be his responsibility?

[51:10]

As a group? To the group and to each individual. Is that part of my responsibility? If you want it to be, but you don't have to like come to the informal group. I think the point of the informal group is to be informal and to have a peer-to-peer discussion. Could I come as a guest? Of course. Anyway, back to this, my responsibility. I would suggest to you that while we were talking to each other, that was my responsibility. I was practicing my responsibility by talking to you about this. So when you brought this up and I said, I think that's a good idea, that I responded to you. And I have that responsibility. You see, I had the ability to do that. And then I kept responding to you. That was my responsibility. So I'd like you to see that I have the responsibility, that I'm functioning with you that way. And when you can't see me responding to you, then you have the ability to respond to that.

[52:16]

By telling me, I don't think you're responding to me. I think you're, you know, please show me you're responding to me. I ask you to do that. Don't cut me off, teacher. Keep responding. That's the teacher's responsibility. Don't cut me off, disciple. That's the disciple's responsibility. Keep responding. And in this particular case, between times when you actually meet the formal teacher face-to-face, to meet with co-practitioners face-to-face might be very helpful. To meet and talk and sit together and study together. I think that's really a good idea. And I could have a response to that in addition to saying it's a good idea. I could have some other responses like saying, I think it should be on Thursday. Or I could say, I would suggest you do it there.

[53:21]

Or I would suggest you do it for a certain amount of time and not indefinitely. I could have a lot of things, a lot of responses to it, if you wanted me to. Because I think that's really a good idea that you practice in ways, for example, that don't require much travel. I think it's also good. So that in a noble, near to where you live, but you might be able to find some people who are even nearer to you. And so you can meet more often. That would be good. And I can support that in a responsive way. I don't have a fixed idea about how you should do it. But you might have ideas and you could tell me so that you wouldn't be doing it. You wouldn't be, the precepts, the training methods you'd be using to implement this more continually in your practice, you wouldn't, you would be receiving them from someone else.

[54:24]

Even though you got that idea, which you just told me, I received that from you. I think I, given the constraints, the babies didn't arrive yet, some babies are coming. They did arrive? Where are the babies? They're here already? Okay. So maybe the babies have arrived. So maybe we should have tea and then we have our ceremony. And in this ceremony, it's a simple ceremony. It involves you bringing your formal request for me to teach another year and wishing me well. And it also involves me bowing to you and you bowing to me. And your bows to me are a silent way of saying,

[55:25]

please continue to practice with me. And my bowing to you is, thank you for the invitation and I will do as you wish. I will continue to practice with you for one more year. Or more, then we can, at the end of the year, we can talk about it again and maybe recommit to another one and another one. But for now, it's in the coming year and if you'd like to make that request, we can do that ceremony after we have some tea. Is that, are you ready to have tea? Okay, and then you can rejoin after the tea and do the ceremony if you feel up for it. Thank you very much. With the true merit of Buddha's way,

[56:36]

Deeds are numberless. I vow to save them. Delusions are inexhaustible. I vow to end them. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha's way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[57:10]

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