Does saying, may I be free of anger, affliction, fear and anxiety, does that help you be more intimate with those phenomena? Yes? It helps you not resist him so much. I find myself very confused sometimes when I say it. Could you hear what you said?

[01:02]

So that's the traditional way of doing the meditation. May I, may you, may he, may she be free of anger, affliction, fear, and anxiety, but maybe You might also try, at least for a little while, changing it to, may I be intimate with fear, affliction, anger, and anxiety. Because as Bhastia is saying, if you say, free from, you say, may I be free from, maybe a little bit slip into pushing it away a little bit, which isn't really the point.

[02:36]

That's not freedom. Intimate with affliction? Intimate with anger? Yeah. Yeah. Again, I think anger in the context of love is intimacy with the anger. Intimacy with the anger, the anger won't be destructive. But if the anger is a little ways away, or a long ways away, it can be more destructive. As I often say, although I haven't tested it, if you're in the backseat of a Volkswagen with a tiger, you're probably okay. If you're in the backseat of a Volkswagen, at least a Volkswagen bug, not a station wagon, with a tiger, you're probably okay.

[03:38]

Tiger probably won't do anything to you. You say, are you sure it won't just sort of lean over and take a little nip? I think if you're really close to the tiger, you're pretty safe. But if you get a foot away from the tiger or two feet away from the tiger, I think you're more dangerous. And if you're like six feet away from the tiger, you're really in trouble. If you try to run away from it, turn your back on it at about six feet. So actually, Try it out. See if you can get close to these things, these phenomena, really close, without sticking your head in them. Not indulging in them, but not really intimate. See if that's almost like freedom. I think it is. Yes? Doesn't mean not to have it.

[04:49]

Doesn't mean not to have it. Right. Yeah. Not that you don't have it. It's that you're free of it. You know, I actually, when I see somebody who's anxious and that knows that they're anxious, I feel pretty good about them. When I see somebody who's afraid and knows they're afraid, I feel they're in pretty good shape. People come and say, I'm afraid. They're not only afraid, they're not only aware that they're afraid, but they're even courageous enough to admit that they're afraid. So they're working well with their fear, I think. So many people are afraid. One of the first books on spiritual life I read was by Krishnamurti. And the first book I read by him on the first page, it said something like, everywhere you go all over the world, people are the same.

[05:54]

They are all, I turned the page, you know, what did I expect him to say? And he surprised me. He said, they're all afraid. I don't know if that's true, that they're all afraid, but I think it's a very pervasive thing that we're afraid. I think it's even more pervasive, though, that we're anxious. People who can't face their anxiety are afraid, and that's most people are working with fear and anxiety. But very few people actually know that they're afraid. The average person on the street doesn't know they're afraid. from my experience. So when a person knows they're afraid, I think you've got a person who's closer to being free of it and also less dangerous than a person who's afraid and doesn't know it. Was there a hand there?

[06:59]

Yes. Yes. I'm talking about being a little bit afraid all the time rather than occasionally being, you know, super, like, sweating, trembling fear, which happens once in a while. You know, like paralyzed fear. I'm talking about being a little bit afraid and a little bit anxious all the time. And I'm talking about two levels of anxiety. One level of anxiety where you're worried about yourself. Another level of anxiety is where you're worried about there being something. in the world. That there'd be something, at least. Even if I'm not around, that there would be something, that there would be a universe where things actually existed. On some subtle level, we're afraid that there's nothing. And it's not really true that there is nothing, it's that we're afraid that there's nothing. And it's not really true that we're not here, we're just afraid we won't be here.

[08:04]

We are here, we're just not here the way we think we are. And there is a world, it's just not the way we think it is. And we're afraid that the world as we think it is, and we as we think it is, think we are. What we're worried about, we feel endangered. Yes? Yes. Where is the victory? Where is the what? Did it happen to ever change?

[09:08]

They do change. When did it finally kick in? Well, I didn't maybe say it this much today. You weren't here last night, right? Well, I mentioned quite a bit last night and not so much today. You're saying, when does the peace and joy kick in? The peace... and the joy, the love is already happening. The love is already happening. That's actually going through you right now. You're giving love and receiving love with everybody right now. When does it kick in that you get the picture? When do you understand that? Yeah, when do you understand that? Well, it seems like you understand that when you when you think about that and talk about that enough so that you start feeling comfortable enough that you would dare to like accept that and open up to that.

[10:11]

Yeah, and you just need to, you need to like, hmm? If it's, you need to like, what do you call it? Really be patient with whatever rate it's going. You may feel like, I want to really test this reality to the limit before I'm going to fall for it. Some other people maybe don't push it so far, just like some kids. push their parents really far to see if they'll love them no matter what. And you may want to really, really take your time before you let go and see what happens after you let go.

[11:22]

you may have to really make yourself feel very, very, very, very safe before you can like let go and feel even safer. So we kind of like warm ourselves up to the safe to the sense of safety and peace and being loved and then we can let go even more. But you can hold on while you're still holding on you can still talk to yourself about loving yourself and you actually can love yourself and [...] talk about loving yourself but that still may be prior to when you feel like other people are loving you. They're already loving you, you just can't see it because you're not loving yourself enough and you're not loving them enough. I say it again If I don't love myself in a steady way and I don't love you in a steady way, then it's hard for me to accept that you love me in a steady way.

[12:31]

If I do it once in a while, that's good. But if I take breaks, then maybe you take breaks. Now, we know some people love us sometimes, but are they steady in that love? We're not sure. And we don't want to, like, get into a thing where they're going to love us for a little while and then stop. When I was in college, you know, college people come from all over the country, right? So I remember one time I met a girl and I asked her out, but I asked her, you know, if she was going to leave town in the summer. I didn't want to, like, love her and then have her leave town. Like, then here I am, like, you know. But that was because I was a steady in loving myself and loving other beings, so then their comings and goings of my sense of their love or my sense of their comings and goings in love, that makes a big difference to me.

[13:38]

When I'm steady in my love to myself and to you, I feel your steadiness and your love to me. When I'm steady in my love to myself and to you, then I let go and I see it coming from all directions. But until I'm steady, it's pretty dangerous for me to take a chance because we're taking a chance on something really important. Am I going to give myself to everybody before they give themselves to me? Yes. I'm going to give my love to everybody before I see. I take it back. Am I going to give myself to everybody before they give themselves to me? No. Am I going to give myself to everybody before I see that they're giving themselves to me? Yes. If I'm stingy with you, I think in some cases you're stingy with me. So I practice being generous more and more, and when I'm steady and even and constant in my generosity, then I'm set.

[14:40]

I've done my part. and I just keep it up, which is actually quite joyful. But the other side is the part that matches it, namely that everybody's been supporting me the whole time and never wasn't and always will. I need to see that part too. But I had to do my part first. You can't get other people to do it. Now, there can be breakthroughs where somebody just comes and crushes you with some gift, you know, and just makes you see, oh, I guess I was wrong about people not loving me, like the story of Michael Wise and Larry Trapp. But before he could realize everybody loved him, he had to, like, give back, I say. But I think he did start giving back. Michael Wise got through to him, and he started being generous. So I think all of you have been reached. Now it's a question of continuity. Continuity in your practice. And this practice can be done 24 hours a day.

[15:44]

Now in very, very deep sleep, you know, you can't really do it then, but it is happening then. So even when you're like really unconscious, you're not contradicting the love that's going on. In fact, everybody's supporting you through your deep sleep. You don't die. You're being supported right through that, and you're supporting everybody else while you're unconscious. If you go into the unconsciousness with the continuity of your love, when you come out, it continues. If you're shaky when you go in, when you come out, it'll be shaky. You don't improve. on vacation but in your dreams you can start noticing yourself loving in your dreams so when you are conscious you can start noticing that you're loving more and more continuously and it is possible to be continuous in it because this kind of work is joyful when you're doing it right it's not a burden it's joyful your energy is not getting drained

[16:55]

You're loving in a way that doesn't drain you because you're loving not expecting something to go a certain way. If you expect a certain result rather than loving what's happening, then you get tired and then you're going to have breaks in your meditation. If you're doing it right, you're not expecting anything. You're loving yourself without necessarily yourself saying thank you. You're loving yourself and loving yourself not knowing how long it's going to take before you believe you really do love yourself. You're loving others before you don't know how long it's going to take them to believe that you love them. And you don't know how long it's going to take before you understand that they're loving you back all the time. You do this without some gaining idea, without some expectation, and because you do it that way, you don't get tired. So you can do it all day. It really is uplifting. If you have an expectation, then you're going to get tired, you're going to take a break. Even while you're awake.

[17:57]

Beverly? Yeah. Okay, let me respond to your question in two levels. First of all, Respect means literally, etymologically, respect means look again. Respect. Respectate. Respectorum. Okay? It means look again. If you can't respect somebody, that means that you're refusing to take another look.

[19:03]

That's pretty rigid, you know? No matter who they are, can't you take another look? Can't you say, okay, they're such and such, but I'm going to take another look. Okay, I think they're such and such. Now let's take another look. Are they really that way? Are you sure they're that way? Respect means give them the benefit of another look. Can't you give that to the person? That's not that much, actually. Just give them another chance. Give them another perspective. One more look. All right? No matter who they are, no matter what they are, give them another look. Like, you know, in our legal system, you know, they have, like, murderers up there or, you know, whatever. People that are accused of being murderers, I mean. But they still call them, you know, Mr. Johnson or something. Sometimes they slip and say, Johnson. But sometimes they say, Mr. Johnson. I think, gee, that's really nice that they're calling this person, that the prosecutor is calling this person who he has told people he thinks has done this murder, he's calling him Mr. So-and-so.

[20:07]

Now, is the prosecutor taking another look like maybe this person really isn't guilty of this? Maybe not, but anyway. Disrespect is really kind of an amazing thing, and I think you can practice respect in that way. Now, is there another aspect of your question that we want to bring up now? Excuse me. You look at the person and you see them as, you know, so-called murderer, okay? Or cruel person, right? Or lazy person. Or not good Zen student, okay? Or not excellent Zen student. You look at them. Now, if I look at somebody and I think they're not an excellent Zen student, does that mean they don't even deserve me to take another look? It doesn't matter what they are, they get another look. It's not that I respect what they are, it's that I give them another look. Now you say, what if I look another time and I see there what I thought the first time?

[21:12]

Then you said they don't deserve respect. In other words, they don't deserve another look. They just get a second one. You don't get a third. Right? This is over. No, I thought you were such and such. I gave you another look. I found out I was right. And that's over now. Now that's it. Right? What about if they're great? What about if they're a wonderful, the greatest Zen student of all time, right? Should you give them another look? If it's positive, then you don't give them another look? Why not? Why not even give people you think are great, take another look at them? Do you do that? So if they're good, they don't need another look. You sort of assume they'll continue to be good. No, I think respect is like even somebody you like, you give them another look. In other words, I don't relegate you to my perception of you. I think you're cute, but I'll give you another look, and I see, actually, you're not just cute.

[22:19]

You're also, you know, whatever the next thing is. Angry, hurt. But if I see you as angry or hurt, I don't just let it go at that. I take another look. In other words, you keep perceiving the person. You keep looking at them. You keep experiencing them. You don't say, I'm done with you. I've got you categorized. That's it. You are my perception of you. It's all over. That's disrespect. To think that the person is what you perceive them to be. Now, it isn't that your perception is wrong. It's just give them another one. That's an act of generosity. Give them another look. Look at them again and [...] again. Keep loving them. No matter who they are, keep giving them new perceptions. This is love and this will help the whole world. It will help them, it will help you. How good or bad they are is not the issue.

[23:21]

Start with yourself. Respect yourself. Respect yourself. Look at yourself again and again. Do you have a perception of yourself? Look again. Have a perception of yourself? Look again. You have new perceptions of yourself? What are they? John, way in the back. By the way, why are you sitting so far back? Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Well, one place it slips into self-indulgence is when you do it towards yourself as a separate person. Rather than just sending the love toward yourself, you send your love toward yourself cut off from other people and other things.

[24:40]

That's self-indulgent. And also it would be self-indulgent when you've had enough and you don't turn it around and give it to others. It would be self-indulgent when you wouldn't notice that you're happy. You've had enough and... you're not paying attention anymore. That would also be self-indulgence. You're not noticing that you're feeling good and loving towards others. So self-indulgent would be inattentiveness to this process. Inattentiveness to the process of loving yourself. That would be self-indulgent. Becoming, you know, too narrow would be self-indulgent. Becoming too narrow in the way you're loving would be self-indulgent. becoming too narrow in the way you love other people is self-indulgent. They say, no, love me this way. Love me that way. Love me that way.

[25:42]

Love me that way. Sure, fine. Just the same with yourself, too. Does that make any sense? Any people that I haven't called on their duty? If I am steady in my love for self, then how I see that is, I can see everyone's actions as their true actions. But I don't equate that with constant love coming toward me. Can I say something right there? You said, if I love the self, then I see others' actions as their true actions? I don't follow that. Because in other words, what I think, if I love the self, I see others' actions as my perception of their actions.

[26:46]

I don't see their actions. I see my perceptions. I can't see your actions. I can only see my perception of your actions. Your actions, everybody's actions are actually far beyond my perception. Your activity... is something that my perceptions cannot capture. I propose that to you. I'm stuck in this limited view box where I deal with you in terms of I have perceptions about you. I also have feelings and so on about you. But I have perceptions that my feelings are related to. So I can be loving myself, I can be loving this self, and loving you, and still have perceptions of you. But if I love you, I say that changes the way I relate to my perceptions of you. If I love you, I'm not so attached to my perceptions of you as reality. Then, when you say that you...

[27:52]

if you have that anger in self-love, that you then can feel a constant love that is only ground in all directions. And that's where I have, I don't quite get it. I said, I said not only grounded in self-love, but so thoroughly love yourself. What does it say? He so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. Okay? When you really love yourself, you naturally love others. When you really love others, then, when you love everybody, there's no exceptions, then you can't help but notice that the love's coming back to you from all directions. I would say that. or at least try it out. Spend a life trying it out. Spend the rest of your life testing that hypothesis. Basically, if you watch, if you give yourself to yourself and give yourself to others, you'll see that they're giving themselves to you. That's what I'm saying. Not just to yourself.

[28:54]

Yes. they're giving themselves to you, they are giving you life. Everybody's appearing in the world, that's what gives you life. If you give yourself to others, then you can see they're giving themselves to you. And in fact, you are giving yourself to others. You're part of what gives life to everybody and each person's part of what gives life to you. If you join that vision, you join that world of enlightenment where everybody's supporting you. Everybody's loving you. In their irritating ways. You and you. What's your name again, Ann? Elizabeth. Elizabeth, that's right. I have a question about fear. Fear? When I'm on an airplane and it hits turbulence, I get scared. Yes. I realize it was a fear, and I notice a fear, and I watch the fear, and I'm okay with it. But then I noticed that it's very, very troubling.

[30:09]

Yes. That my body sort of starts getting really frightened by itself. Yeah, I know. And I'm not sure how. So I watched the fear there, too, in your body. But it seemed almost like two different powers, two different. The body and the what? The body, like, just frightened my mind. Right. Well. What I'm proposing for you to consider is that if you get good enough with this loving-kindness meditation, that you can continue that meditation while your body is freaking out, getting tossed around, you know, in the air. Your body will definitely give off strong messages to that thing. It's built to, like, give off strong signals when you, like, get thrown around like that. And the signals it sends off are not signals like, you know, relax, eat more. No, the body sends out distress signals at that time.

[31:16]

So you practice loving-kindness in the midst of the distress signals. We don't know whether we're going to survive the next distress or not. We may, we may not. The question is, are we practicing loving-kindness through our various distresses? If we are... then it is possible that in the distress you will practice loving kindness toward yourself and others in the distress, and you will feel the love of the universe coming to you while you're in distress, while your body's in distress. So even if the situation works out that we're distressed by, you know, the activity of airplanes that we're inside of, cars we're inside of, water that we're floating in, conversations that we're in the middle of, a body that's sick or whatever, that we continue to practice loving kindness, and we still understand that no matter what's happening, we are loving everyone and everyone's loving us.

[32:19]

And we are happy, we are joyful, and we are free under all circumstances. This is Buddha. We are always aware of the wholeness of our life, of the interconnectedness of our life. And we develop it in every situation, and then new situations come, like airplanes doing strange things, people beating up their kids nearby us, illness. Various things come to test to see if now can we continue the practice of loving-kindness even through that. Can we continue to feel that the world is giving us love even in this distressed situation? where the body is definitely, you know, exuding all kinds of hormones and stuff, which seem quite appropriate. Because, you know, you may have to get out of an airplane and perform some superhuman feat, which would be good because it's good if you survive this thing if you can, because you're a little Buddha. We want you to survive and continue to practice as long as possible.

[33:25]

You may not be able to, but you'll die happy and peaceful and safe. your spirit will die happily, even though your body's freaking. But the body will also, usually, people have reported, it calms down towards the end. Don't worry. But if your body calms down towards the end, which it does, and you don't trust the world to love it, then you don't trust that it loves you. And then you don't die happily, even though your body's cooled out and giving you a chance to let go. That's what I think. That's what seems to me is the truth. What do you think? What's your name? Penny. Yes. That's right.

[34:37]

The times you need it most is the times you forget. That's right. you just keep practicing and then in the times that you need it most which is the times you forget there won't be those times anymore because you won't forget but of course the times you need it most is when you forget because you forgot laughter It's not really that situation that you need it most. The reason why you need it most is because you forgot it. So I have quite a different reaction.

[35:40]

I tend to not forget it. Some people forget it in the big situations. Some people forget it in the little situations. I'm the type that forgets it in the little situations. When I'm in a fight with my wife, I usually remember it. You know, I kind of, oh, I get it. I get it. This is like time to practice. This is like not kid stuff anymore. This is like life and death. But I often say the time when I don't do it is like calling information. Or MCI operators. This is not the time when I have to practice it, right? Like, I do think I have to practice it when they call for donations, right? But you don't have to practice it when the Chronicle calls. Right? It's those little ones that I have trouble with. That's when I forget. And you can get hurt.

[36:42]

You can really get hurt when the long-distance operator doesn't do what you want. Because it's not so much that they hurt you so much, it's that you feel so humiliated that that can hurt you. I'm so petty here, I've been practicing so long, and I'm bothered by this kind of thing. That's how petty I am. You can feel like you can really be hurt by being bothered by a little thing. But some big problem with the kids in school and stuff like that, at least if you've got a problem, you can at least say, well, this is a big problem. So, you know, I'm not bothered that I'm bothered. So the point is that you've got to practice as much as you can and extend it as far as you can. And when you reach the place where you forget, then you say, and see what happens when I forget? And use that forgetting and recognize and say, I forgot there. And that recognizing that you forgot as a forgetting, that turns the dharma one more little turn there. You missed the chance, but when you recognize you missed it, you're back on track.

[37:45]

And you're convinced again, yeah, that would have been good if I was on the ball in that time. That would have been helpful, but I forgot. I flinched. I got scared, and I didn't stay with my fear. I didn't say, okay, here comes fear. We're going to stay right with it. Now I'm not going to let the fear get us off. We're going to stay with the fear. Okay, yeah, good. I'm with, okay, now I can practice loving kindness. You can't practice loving kindness when you're afraid if you're not with your fear. It doesn't count. Because you're practicing loving kindness to somebody else. You're afraid. You've got to practice loving kindness with this fear person. So you've got to be with the fear. Then you bring the loving kindness. It's really for yourself. If you've betrayed yourself already, then loving kindness is irrelevant. Because you're practicing loving kindness to somebody else. Actually to nobody. Because you're not that person who's not afraid. You're the frightened person. Love has to do with actuality, not what you can use.

[38:53]

Love is in the realm of what's happening, not what you can control. We want to practice it in a situation where we can do it, where we can have some effect or something. But actually, it's supposed to be practiced with what's happening. Like that Mutt & Jeff cartoon. You know that one? The Mutt and Jeff, you know Mutt and Jeff? Tall guy and a little short guy. They're standing under a streetlight, and a policeman comes over and says, what are you doing, boys? And we're saying, we're looking for Mutt's watch. The policeman says, did you lose it here? And he said, no, we lost it up the street, but the light's better here. So we want to practice loving kindness under the streetlight rather than up the street in the dark where we are. or vice versa, you know. We want to do it someplace else. Well, no. You've got to do it on yourself. You've got to start where you are. And it turns out that's not only the place to do it, but that's where it really does the work.

[39:58]

That's where it really transforms your life because you're doing it with your life, not with the, you know, ghost of your life. But it's hard to be there in the first place. That's the hard part. But being there in the first place is the first and fundamental act of love, is to be what you are. Then deepen it and make yourself more and more willing to be there and appreciate it and then give it to others so the anxious people can be anxious. Yeah, come on, anxious person, be anxious. Just for now. Yes? . Well, to practice loving kindness in a middle of argument, you might not be able to say, may I be happy, may I be peaceful, may I be light, may he be happy, may he be peaceful, may he be light.

[41:20]

In the middle of a fight, you're saying other words. So you can't say those words anymore. That's why you have to be practicing before the fight. So the may I be happy, may I be at peace, may I be... light is already in your body so then when you meet him that's the context may he be happy maybe he'd be peaceful may he be safe may he be safe especially may he be safe because i'm going to tell him something now and i want him i want him to survive this i want him to be able to hear this you know so you deeply in your body you want this person safe Because this is your partner. You want to work on this until you get it done. So may he be safe. And I have something to say to you. I'm really angry at you. But it's not to hurt him. It's to express yourself. To give him the gift of who his wife is. In the context of, boy, I hope you can take this. I hope you're a big enough boy to take this. Are you ready for this, sweetheart?

[42:21]

Here it is. It's in that context. So you have to be like ongoingly loving him based on ongoingly loving yourself and feeling like you have a gift to give and sometimes the gift's really strong you can't be saying loving kindness meditation when other words are happening so it has to be more internalized to carry it through the fight and some people they really do love us and they don't forget they love us even though they're screaming at us they never lose track of that they never like say okay now I'm mad at you and also we're done. No, they're hanging in there and this is just that they're mad now. They don't like what we just did. It's not the end of the game. But if you don't love the person enough, you're not really ready to fight in some ways. So that's too bad. So love them more and start fighting if it's helpful. That's why you have to practice this so it's basically in your body

[43:27]

And it's still good to say it when nothing else is happening. But even in silence, when you sit still and really accept your body and mind as it is, you're saying basically, I love this body. I hope this body is happy because this is the work that I have to do. I have to be this body. I have to be this mind. I have to be these feelings. I have to be these opinions. Completely. That's the fundamental act of love, which we call just sitting. So it's what he calls, it's manja manja time. for somebody else's betrayal of you to hurt you if you don't betray yourself.

[44:35]

If you betray yourself that's the main one. That's the main betrayal. Once you betray yourself then you're very sensitive to anybody else betraying you. If you don't betray yourself you're pretty safe about somebody else betraying you? Can I trust myself not to betray myself again? And how would you be able to trust yourself not to betray yourself again? What does it take not to betray yourself? Looking more deeply before you commit.

[45:37]

What? Taking a little bit more time before you respond. And when you take more time before you respond, then what? But what is the betrayal? What is betrayal? What is betraying yourself? How can you betray yourself? Okay, not loving yourself. Dishonesty. What kind of dishonesty? The dishonesty of not paying attention to what shows up in front, that it's, how do I say this? Okay, first of all, she said the dishonesty about not paying attention, that's similar to what you were saying, to stop and look before you respond. So part of the dishonesty is you're not looking at yourself. And then? The dishonesty of trying to get away from it. Get away from it, what's it?

[46:41]

Whatever is arising that I don't want to face. Whatever is arising that you don't want to say, you want to get away from it? And why might you want to get away from it? It's scary. It's too hard to stay in it. Like, for example? You want me to give you an example? No, of something that you're... Let's say you've noticed it a little bit, or barely, and you say it's scary. What would be scary? Well, it would be perceived, my perception that I'm being harmed. So a specific example might be, say, we walk... You're being harmed, you're afraid to notice that you're being harmed? Yeah. Or I think I'm being harmed. My perception is... You're afraid to notice that you think you're being harmed. And I believe that I'm being harmed. And you're afraid to notice that you believe you're being harmed. And what would be... If you're being harmed, why would it be scary to notice that you're being harmed? Why would that be scary?

[47:42]

Well, break an old habit. It would be scary to break an old habit. What would the old habit be? I'm alone. I'm isolated. I'm separate. I'm... You're hurting me. I don't know. It could be a whole... I mean, I could give you a lifetime of habits that might buy into that. Well, let's just stay with this one. You say you have this perception you're being harmed, and I'm saying, if you feel like you're being harmed, what are the fears around that? And you say, well, one fear is just a fear of breaking a habit. And I say, what's the habit there, if you're perceiving that you're being harmed? What's the habit? Oh, not being myself. Or what's the habit of... You feel like you're being harmed. Right. You have a perception of being harmed. Okay. And I'm saying, what fears do you have when you have a perception of being harmed? What fears could be there? I could see several. That would be separate from you. Okay, one is that you'd be separate from me. You'd be afraid of that. And the other would be the fear of love.

[48:47]

The fear of love. And what else? Well, those are the two that come to mind. Those are fears, okay? She's afraid of being separate and being loved while she feels like she's being perhaps harmed. Attacked, maybe. Or attacked. Is there any betrayal yet? Yeah, I would say in all of that. Where's the betrayal? the dishonesty of not saying I'm feeling. No, you didn't say, we're not just saying anything. First of all, we just have you're perceiving something and you're afraid. You're afraid of being separate and you're afraid of being loved. Now, so far there's not dishonesty, there's fear, right? When does dishonesty start? When does that start? I don't know. In the resistance that I'm feeling right now as I'm interacting with you, it's like, where are you leading me?

[49:54]

I'm trying to get to where the betrayal starts. To feel fear is not betrayal, necessarily. Then you said dishonesty, but dishonesty about what? Where does dishonesty start manifesting? Usually in the thought or my interpretation of what I'm perceiving. So what's dishonest about the perception? Well, I don't know if it's dishonest. Well, it could be, it could be. It depends on my frame of mind, my mood, what's happening, you know. Okay, well, if you don't want me to lead you... Go ahead, lead me. Then I would just say, you got a perception... Yeah. And you know, have some fears around the perception. Now, dishonesty would start, I think, when you would say, when you would lie about your perceptions. when you would lie about it. That would be... The dishonesty would start there. Just a perception is not necessarily dishonest. You just think, well, I think it's Tuesday or I think you're hurting me.

[50:55]

Seems like you're hurting me. Seems like you're saying something mean to me. Seems like it hurts. That's my perception. The dishonesty would start when I would say, I'm not being hurt. This is not my perception. And it would be betrayal when I would tell that lie to get something for myself. So I try to get something from myself by lying about myself. So I cash in what's happening with me and lie about what's happening to me in order to protect myself. So if I'm afraid that you'll love me or I'm afraid that you'll love me and I'm afraid also that you'll separate from me or hate me, then I might lie about my perception. Like I feel like you're abusing me, but I might not say so because you might love me. if I told you what was going on with me. You might love me right while I tell you that you're abusing me. Wouldn't that be a strange and difficult situation?

[51:58]

Or you might hate me if I told you that I thought you were abusing me. So I might lie, in other words, betray myself to get something for myself, sell myself out to get love or to prevent hate. Aren't we always doing loving kindness for ourself? So we're always looking, as human beings as we walk around the world, we want to be loved. So what we do is in many ways in order to get the love. Sometimes maybe not... That's very subtle there because when you're doing loving kindness for yourself, you don't try to get love for yourself. When you practice loving kindness for yourself, you benefit from that for yourself. You give yourself what you naturally want to give yourself.

[53:02]

Okay? But you don't give it to yourself to get it. You give it to yourself as a gift and you receive it. And then you naturally want to give it to others. And because you want to give it to yourself and do give it to yourself, which is in accord with reality, you want to give it to others, which is in accord with reality. And then you realize that they've been giving to you all along. If you don't check into Love Hotel, if you don't check into that practice, then what you do is you try to do things to get love. As though it wasn't going to come for you, it'll come from what you do. And then you think, well, if who I am might not be loved, then I'll be what I think will be loved. But that contradicts the original practice of loving yourself as you are, not being a certain way so that you can love yourself. That seems so far out.

[54:06]

I mean, it sounds wonderful, but it seems so far out of the world that I exist in my everyday life that it almost feels like it seems impossible. Yeah, well, it certainly is revolutionary. Yeah. It's a real change. To love yourself not because of the way you are, to love yourself the way you are. To love yourself the way you are, not to love yourself because of the way you are. There's no justification for this. other than the way things are. You love reality, not anything but because that's all there is to work with. You don't love things that aren't happening. You love things that are happening. Loving things that aren't happening doesn't count. Being loved for who you aren't doesn't count.

[55:07]

We betray ourselves by being what we aren't in order to get the love which we know is natural for us to be receiving. But when we do something to get it, we deny that we're already getting it, and it's an endless addiction of betrayal. Plus, the betrayal then is revenge against ourselves for betraying ourselves. which we take out on ourselves, and then we say, because I betrayed myself, I'm not going to let you have love now. You can't love yourself now that you betrayed yourself, doubly, because somebody has to get punished, and secondly, because you don't even know where you are anymore because you've been lying about yourself for so long so that you can get love. Is this impossible? No. It's not impossible at all. It's just revolutionary. It's just so, as you were about to say, it's so far out of the usual way.

[56:11]

It is far out from the usual way. That's why this poor little simple practice of loving kindness is really a radical, far out thing from the ordinary point of view. And it's very difficult. The ordinary point of view is far out from the point of view of reality. So reality is far out from the point of view of delusion. And most of society is about being what other people want us to be or rebelling against what other people want us to be rather than loving ourselves for what we are and loving others for what they are. wanting to wanting to please other people wanting to do something which will make them happy

[57:23]

does not mean being the way that they would like, which is not the way you are. Doesn't necessarily mean that. Lying about yourself to make somebody happy is not the same as doing something to please somebody. So I give the example of one time I was having dinner with my wife and two famous psychologists. And the man is a professor at UC Irvine, UC California, not UC, University of California, Irvine. And my wife said to him, what's it like in Irvine? And he said, oh, it's beautiful there. And his wife said, no, it's ugly there. And he said, it's ugly there. And my wife said, you should learn that. So I did learn that.

[58:32]

I do it every now and then. She says, my wife says to me, Are you happy? And I say, no, I'm miserable. And she says, no, you're not. You're happy. And I say, I'm happy. Or she says, you're miserable, aren't you? I say, no, I'm happy. And she says, no, you're miserable, aren't you? Yes, I'm miserable. Oh, you like this, don't you? And I say, no. And she says, yes, you do, don't you? And I say, yes, I do. That's not lying. That's not lying. That's not betraying myself, honest. It's just doing something to please her. You're a fish. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. I'm a fish. It's not lying. But for me to pretend to be a fish and to lie about that because I think people like me to be a fish, that's betraying myself. Now, if they know I'm just kidding, okay, if they want me to be a fish, I'll be a fish. Okay, we'll play that game. No problem. I'll be a fish. Want me to crawl across the ground? Fine. But that's not the same as lying. that's when I'm not afraid, I'm not afraid of you hating me and I'm not afraid of you loving me, then I don't betray myself.

[59:43]

Or even if I'm afraid, I go ahead and be me So if you tell me, pretend like you're a fish, I might say, okay, I'll pretend like I'm a fish. And you may hate me for that, or you may love me for that. I'm not afraid of either one. I'll just do it if you want me to. But I'm not being dishonest. I'm not betraying myself. And if I love myself enough, I can be a fish, if you want me to be. If I don't love myself enough, I can't be a fish for you. But if I love myself enough and it would make you happy for me to be a fish, I'll be a fish. I'll be Santa Claus. I'll be a walrus. Whatever you want. You see the difference? No, you don't look like you do. It's too strange, huh? Yes, you had your hand up next. And what's interesting is a lot of people are talking about how important it is to be in a relationship.

[61:03]

A lot of what most people are doing is putting their thoughts from time to time and changing their thoughts or keeping thinking. Lower it and also think in a way that's good for the relationship. And what's it, we'll thank people, but anything we would do in a room with a person in your relationship, you should totally divulge to that person. And open up the picture up from the speaker of the office building you got charged on. That's what we're working on. And it's pretty good. I mean, look at this. right but in the background that kind of work I think it's very good to have a grounding in loving kindness because if you aren't taking care of yourself and you start telling the truth you don't have enough energy and money in the bank to contain the intensity and the at least temporary apparent loss of certain kinds of I don't know what

[62:14]

affection or esteem or reputation. There might be some perceived loss or gain around that. You have to have a kind of basis for that so that you're with people who, although they may think you're more of a jerk when you tell them certain things, it's not going to go to zero. Plus also they appreciate the honesty, but they don't like what you told them. And it shakes the relationship. but there's enough there to hold it. Helmer? I was wondering whether there's a place for expressing your resentment, like this president who may or may not have betrayed you, but you see he betrayed you. I would try to check it out there, and then be able to express my resentment still with love, hopefully. if there's enough love, it's possible that expressing the resentment would be part of letting it go.

[63:24]

If you feel that expressing the resentment is going to help you let it go, and you feel that the relationship can contain that and they can hear that without getting hurt, which is also part of letting go, because if you then hurt them, then you start a whole new process of harm. But sometimes expressing it will help you let it go. So you can go ahead and practice love. Love will be there, basically. I think love has to be there first. So we've got plenty of resentment. Now we have to build up our love container to clear the resentment. and sometimes clearing the resentments is really hard. And there's a big section in this Path to Purification about how to clear resentment. And in the section of loving-kindness, there's all these different meditations on how to clear resentment because it's really hard to clear it.

[64:28]

It's really hard. When somebody's already hurt us, So to be hurt and not hurt back benefits you and the other person. To tell somebody that they resented you without hurting them is fine if it doesn't hurt them. But if you strike back to somebody who hurt you, you both lose. If you don't strike back at somebody who hurt you, you both learn, you both are benefited. Yeah. Well, that's fine. But even if you misperceive it, even if you thought they betrayed you and you were wrong, if you don't hurt them back, you still gain.

[65:28]

So all the harms that you think have been done to you, which really haven't been, if you don't strike back, you benefit from it. So if you think there's a mountain of harm that's been done to you and you don't strike back for any of it, you gain for all the backstrikes you didn't do. Especially if you're really powerful and you really could strike back. To not do it, you get a lot of benefit from that. And so does everybody else that you didn't strike. Now if you find out that there really wasn't any harm, well, that's nice too How are you going to find out there's not any harm? Practicing loving kindness. Then you realize that all this stuff which you thought was harm actually was love coming to you, but you didn't interpret it that way. But to betray yourself in the face of this harm and lie about how you feel, that's harmful. And I would say that in order to not betray yourself and to be honest about how you feel, you need to be loving yourself in order to do that.

[66:42]

Because otherwise, you're standing out there naked, telling what's happening to you with no sense of being loved. That's too hard. That's, you know, expecting too much of yourself. Yes? Yes. No, for me it was, I was ashamed that I didn't do a better job being a father. Well, that I didn't, well, to me it was good. It was like, okay, I see now, you know, what I could have done better. Again, to feel shame without some basic confidence in my love for my daughter, that's something different than to feel shame with that confidence.

[67:44]

I knew I loved her, but as she said sometimes, love is not enough. It isn't that you just love the person. You have to do more than just love them in your heart. You have to do something. You have to give it. You have to show it externally. It has to get out into the relationship. And I think she was showing me some ways that it didn't get out. And I appreciate that, but I still was ashamed that I hadn't done better. But I didn't like totally, you know, wipe myself out. I more felt like, well, now I want to do the way I want to do better. I want to try again. Please let me be your father from now on. Let me continue my kind of, you know, low-quality fatherhood. Please let me. And she does let me. Very nice of her. There was a birthday party for her the other night and in the middle of the birthday party I left for a while to go do something for part of my job at Zen Center.

[68:48]

I went to a meeting with the people in the practice period and when I got back and then she, when she left after the party she said, I love you dad and next birthday party don't leave. So I felt a little ashamed for leaving, actually. And she could tell me. It's pretty good. It was very good that she could tell me, tell me what she wants. You know, we do fall down, but if there's enough love, we can learn and evolve. Let's see. Is there anybody having a call in for a while that's had their hand up? I can't keep track. Is there somebody over there? A hand over there? Oh, yeah. Yes. Say you feel betrayed.

[69:54]

Say you feel betrayed. Yeah, it's okay to work on it by yourself. The other person isn't up for it. then you have to work it on yourself. Work on it by yourself because you can't hold the resentment. The resentment's impeding your happiness. So if they don't want to play, you've got to clear it with your other friends. And you can... I think it's a good idea to find out... It's good to find out if they want to play if you think that them playing will help you clear their resentment. if you don't think it's going to help clear the resentment, then just go work on the resentment directly.

[70:59]

But sometimes it does help to talk to them. Sometimes it does help. Try to see if it would help, and if it would help, try to get them to play. If they won't, then do it without their help, without their participation. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yes. Am I going to? Yeah, I will. Is resentment anger toward the other person? And you said you were going to talk about anger. I know you've been talking about this energy. Okay, first of all, yeah. Resentment is like anger, but it's anger, I think, over some pain, right? You resent something. What other kind of angers are there? You might be angry at someone for some other reason. What other reasons might there be? Disappointment.

[72:04]

I think anger is very closely related to resentment. Now, I was saying that there's a certain kind of aggressive energy that can be harmless when it's coupled with love. But what about, is there some other kind of anger that we want to just, that is not really like, what do you call it, part of the process of evolving? Is there some other kind of anger? Any useful kind of anger? Is there any unuseful kind of anger? Unuseful. In other words, is there any kind of anger when it's coupled with love that can't deepen your understanding? I gave the example before, that you're angry at a person, you're angry with somebody, you have aggressive energy, you're not trying to hurt them,

[73:07]

but you're angry and it's coupled with a loving relationship. You don't like they're doing something and you don't like it. You dislike what they're doing. You're having a problem with what they're doing. You don't want to hurt them, but you're having a problem with the relationship and you're having a problem with the way they're playing. Like you're dancing with somebody and they're stepping on your feet or you're stepping on her feet or his feet. you get angry and frustrated, you get frustrated and angry, but you get frustrated, but maybe you could get frustrated and not get angry, but sometimes the anger might help the process of the dance. You don't want to, like, you know, punch them and, like, lose your dance partner. You don't hate the person, but you're angry, and the anger might help both parties learn how to dance better. Is there some other kind of anger? Huh? What? He got the anger, but is it the anger that's a problem or is it that you're holding on to it that's a problem?

[74:21]

So if it's a loving relationship, you might be able to let go of the anger. Is there anger that basically wants to hurt? Well, that anger isn't conjoined with love, right? So it seems to me that the anger, when it's separated from the love, then you can attach to it, harbor it, use it for your own purposes, want to harm people with that energy. So that's inappropriate anger. There's nothing good about that that I can see. But anger that's about trying to move the process forward in anger that's trying to protect beings from harm, that anger is conjoined with love. And that anger, that's not necessarily harmful. Matter of fact, you probably shouldn't be angry in those cases. Probably shouldn't put up with it too long, put up with the problem too long, because if you do, the situation might cause some harm.

[75:28]

In other words, you shouldn't necessarily let a person step on your foot too many times. Eventually they might hurt your foot. It might be better to yell at them and say, stop stepping on my foot. You don't want that to hurt them, no. You just want them to learn how to dance better, and you want to protect your foot. So anger is the messenger. Anger has a message that we... If you're answering a question that I had earlier... It could be a message, yeah. It could be a message, yeah. It could be a message from you to the other person. Information of an intense, hot form. So the energy of anger has a message. It can. Well, actually, it always does. Yeah. Well, no, no, you think something's not right. So why would you not have that emotional response, that heat rising, the energy, the sweating, the ready to take a stance?

[76:34]

Something's going on, right? Right, but not necessarily something wrong. Yeah. For example, when you're dancing with something, it's not necessarily wrong that they're stepping on your foot. It's part of learning how to dance for some people. And it's also part of your learning how to dance to be able to tell somebody when they're stepping on your foot and be able to learn how to say that in a skillful way because you may have to say it quite a few more times. So it's not necessarily wrong, but you do feel like you have to say something about it. And if you don't put some energy into it, they might think, oh, she really thinks it's cute that I'm stepping on her foot. She says, oh, you stepped on my foot. Or she'll even mention it. So I guess it doesn't bother her that much. But no, she says, you know, I really don't like it when you step on my foot. I hate it when you step on my foot. Stop stepping on my feet, you know. Maybe she really means that. Maybe I should try to learn that. And still be myself, you know, and do my dancing thing. Try to do that. But then, you know, you've got to be careful that you don't back off of your dance step and try to be somebody else in order to

[77:39]

you know, protect yourself from her getting angry at you again. Because then you won't, then you start taking these tiny little steps. And that's not the dance either. Then she starts yelling at you and says, take bigger steps. So there's no way to avoid, you know, getting this feedback. Right? Was this a righteous anger that you're talking about? That's a good type of anger, right? I don't know about righteous anger, but I think anger can, there's times when you should be angry. So when there's harm, anger should be, not always, but anger is often helpful. There are times when anger should be operating. And it's a mistake for it not to operate there. But it's not operating to harm. It's operating to help, to protect. It's conjoined with love. There's other times when anger shouldn't operate, and that's when it harms. And it harms when it's not connected to love.

[78:43]

Right? Pardon? you can get angry anyway, and there's an appropriate type and an inappropriate type. The appropriate type doesn't harm, deepens understanding, brings more life to the situation, protects and promotes life. Another kind of anger hurts life, makes everybody tighten up and withdraw, discourages people from being honest, makes people feel like, well, that's what I get for living. I'm not going to live. Rather than, oh, you mean like we're really serious and fierce about being alive here? You mean you people are actually up for me? You're going to like tell me when you don't like me rather than asking me to withhold and pretend like I'm somebody else? And you actually want me to tell you how I feel? Wow. Did you have your hand up, Richard?

[79:47]

Feeling misunderstood is closely related to feeling disrespected. Sometimes we feel misunderstood and we don't feel too upset. Like, for example, I told somebody the other day that somebody quoted the Dalai Lama and attributed it to me. I didn't get that angry. Now, if they quote me and attribute it to the Dalai Lama, Huh? Well, it would compliment me a little bit, but how about, you know? So I think being misunderstood and being misquoted, being disrespected are very hard for some of us to take.

[80:53]

It strikes at a deep kind of like actually biological imperative there. Very important is to be understood the way we intend to be understood. It's very hard for us. So... So what do you do when you're misunderstood and you feel hurt by that? If you are loving yourself and you're loving the other person, you can say, hey, you want to hear something interesting? I feel misunderstood, and it really hurts. And that can be given with a fierceness, but the point is you're not trying to hurt the other person. But you want them to know that it hurt and also that you feel misunderstood. In the case, for example, of my daughter, I did not feel misunderstood.

[81:56]

I felt understood, I felt she was right, and it hurt. But that's not as difficult as being misunderstood. Misunderstood is really hard. So what if you have some anger and you don't have enough love around it? Then what do you do with that kind of anger? What if you've got anger but you don't feel love around it? If you do it, yeah, you get in trouble. You are in trouble. You're in trouble. You're in trouble because you've got anger but there's not love. So how are we going to get love around when we have anger? Where are we going to get it from?

[82:58]

Yeah? Take time out. Disqualify yourself from human society for a while. You still got the problem. Maybe it'll pass. That's okay. Pardon? Write in a journal. Sounds reasonable. Yes? No. Amen. Amen. Amen. And then you find out that you've got some of these difficult feelings, like you've got a tightness in your throat or your chest.

[84:32]

You've got turning in your stomach. You've got hurt feelings. Somebody said something to you that really hurt you. Someone did something that really embarrassed you. You really feel uncomfortable about it. Someone betrayed you. What do you feel when you feel betrayed? Someone abandoned you. What do you feel when you feel abandoned? Feeling those things is harder for most people than being angry. Either to be angry or to assume you're angry and pretend like you're angry. So in some sense you could say a lot of anger maybe is pretending to be something other than a wounded beast. And rather than just sort of like be wounded and disabled and sort of overwhelmed by pain, we might want to pretend like we're okay. And anger is a way to cover it. Right? Nobody knows. So then they won't strike us again because we look okay. But if we show them that we're wounded, they might strike again.

[85:35]

So it's, maybe we're not really ever angry. Maybe it's just a fake thing. Maybe all there is really is happiness and pain. And then all this stuff we do is just like a big show to distract ourselves from what's going on. And maybe we could actually operate not from distracting ourselves from our pain and our but from actually being intimate with it. Maybe we still could live our life without spacing out and disguising what's going on. Would that be possible? Could you actually live from direct feeling? Why don't we now do some meditation?

[86:48]

Okay? Let's do some walking meditation and then some sitting meditation. The Buddha said, one who loves herself will never harm another. Well, I should say, I heard that Buddha said that.

[87:55]

I heard that. I don't know if Buddha actually said that. What do you think? Is that true? And do you love yourself? I don't. So I should be careful of you, huh? Do I love you? You say you do. Do you believe it? My body doesn't. So, can you say, may I be happy? Can you say that? And may I be peaceful

[89:08]

Light and body and spirit. Can you say that yourself? Yeah. And then, can you say it again and again? Yeah. This has been so good for me. This is so helpful. Have you been doing it today? Yeah, and it works. But you can't quite go so far as to say that you love yourself yet? No. No. What do you mean by it works? Well, I was out front in the recycling garbage can, and I noticed there was all this trash in there that wasn't recyclable, and it made me really mad, so I started being mad and taking the garbage out of there.

[90:12]

And then while I was doing it, saying may I be happy, joyous, peaceful. I was doing that and I noticed I didn't feel very mad anymore. And it was almost kind of fun to take the garbage out of there. And then later when I was talking to someone who was saying something that made me afraid and uncomfortable, I started doing that again. It changed it. So I think for me it works.

[90:59]

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