This is our last class of 1994. I guess I'm going to Tassajara, so I won't be giving class this fall. But I'm offering two days to study, the 24th of September, and I think the 13th or 12th of November. So if you want to get together and study for those two days, we can do those too. But otherwise, I guess there won't be a regular class unless somebody puts one together beside me. But I tend to start studying again in 95 cases. So now we're on case 40, I think. I've been using case 39 all over the country, and people have been using it quite nicely.

[01:07]

It's helpful as meditation instruction at least, although no one has yet expressed any realization of the case. There it is. We all had it and we let go. Next time, before you let go of it, come and show it to me. Now, here's another opportunity. This case, this is a... This is a puppy. Okay, so Yunmen... Ask John Fung. Can I answer, please, teacher?

[02:08]

John Fung is a disciple of Dungshan. Is he on the chart? Excuse me. Dungshan. No, he's not there. Not there. So anyway, there are you, Dungshan. Dungshan, there you are. Left and right. No, he's not on the charru. Too bad, ain't it? Too late to squish him in there? No, he's not. That's Dungshan. Anyway, he's a disciple of Dungshan. He's Dharma brothers to Zhaoying and Bunjie. Bunjie? You know Bunjie? Bunjie was quite, huh?

[03:10]

What? I believe so. He's pretty much young. Huh? You see him on the chart? No, it's not on the chart. John Fung, the guy who Yun Mun's coming to talk to, is a disciple of Dongshan. So if you look on the chart, you'll see that Yanmen is a little bit younger, see? He's like two generations, right? He's like a grandson or a grandnephew. Not directly, but he's sort of two generations after Dengshan. So Dengshan's direct disciples will be like elder to Yanmen. So Yanmen goes to visit the teacher, John Fung, and says, An answer, please, teacher. And Jiang Feng said, have you come to me yet?

[04:11]

And Yunmen says, then I'm late? Or kind of like, then I'm late. More like, then I'm late. Rather than questioning. Is that so? Is that so? I thought I was Hu Bai. It's even Hu Hei yet. And, uh, I guess you know that you, you know that, uh, this is an allusion to a, to a, what do you call it, parable or something like that? Who Bay, which by the way means monkey white. Who is monkey and Bay is white. So monkey white. Monkey white was the name of a famous, uh, A famous liar and crook, racketeer, Chinese racketeer in the Tang Dynasty.

[05:12]

No, no, actually, pre-Dang Dynasty. And then Yun Men's kind of making up another character. Monkey Black. So he's making an allusion to a semi-legendary liar and crook named Monkey White. And he's saying, I thought you were Monkey White, but now I see it's even Monkey Black. So you're even worse than that crook. Okay? That's the story. And we can just mention right off, as you know, that, again, the primary rhetorical device in Zen is irony. So, as they say in Reality Bites, can you define irony? Did you see it?

[06:14]

Yeah. Can you define irony? No. Neither can you. could Winona Ryder. So don't worry. Thanks. Eric, what's his name? Eric what? The star, the male lead? No. Eric. Huh? Anyway. She goes to see her boyfriend who's sitting in a diner reading Being and Time. And she says, define irony. And he said, it's when the literal meaning is the opposite of the actual meaning. But that's the meaning in Zen.

[07:17]

rather than literary means. So here, this is, of course, to call this guy a crook and a liar, even worse than a crook and a liar, means the opposite of crook and a liar, plus even better than the opposite of crook and a liar. So, if you call him not a crook and a truth teller, but even better than that. And when you get better than being a truth teller, And I'm not a non-crook. You sort of go off the chart and start over again on the other side, right? So that's the use of irony. Irony is particularly used in cases of intense praise. There's other ironic moments, but a lot of the stories are like, you know, at moments of transition to say, you dirty little booger. So, basically, what's so good about... Yuen Lin has come to see this guy, what's so good about the teacher?

[08:24]

This is for us to consider. And the commentary is right there. It's a nice short commentary. And don't read the commentary. I mean, don't tell me what the commentary says, literally, or ironically. Tell me what it means. What does the commentary mean with regard to this story? What's the commentary saying? You can read it if you want to. It's basically saying the same thing which I just said. Seems to say they're both pretty right on. Seems to say they're both pretty right on. Who is both? Yeah, it's saying they're pretty right on, but let's go a little further. Okay, yes. I'm sorry.

[09:27]

Well, more than that, they say it's like an arrow notching into a bowstring. It's a perfect medium. And they're very active and effective. What? Tell me more. A little bit more. A little master of praise. Words of praise. Yes. And relative to the story of the great master Nagasena and the king, how does it relate to that story? In both cases it seems like the two people probably met each other. It wasn't just that they were being, that one or both of them were being brilliant, but it was in relation, it was in meeting, the two people.

[10:34]

Yes. It says that the story in the commentary can't be investigated. Does it say still can be investigated? It will still be investigated. Yeah. So it's a little bit... The commentator feels that there's a little difference here. That you can investigate the other story, but this one, what's the matter with this one, Mark? Is he saying you can't investigate it? And if so, what's difficult about investigating this story? That wasn't my understanding. That wasn't my understanding. My understanding was that here's a parallel story, and this parallel story can still be investigated. And similarly, so can this. Well, it's definitely a parallel story. And he's suggesting that the parallel story can be still studied after all this time. But this other story has happened before, too. You're suggesting that you think it can still be studied...

[11:35]

But if it couldn't be studied, what would be the reason why it couldn't be studied, according to the commentary? If you understood that it was saying it couldn't be studied, what would be the problem? It doesn't need to trace. It doesn't need to trace? Yeah. And what other reason why can't it be studied, if you're reading it that way? What's that? It's not a natural occurrence. Pardon? It's sort of like a natural occurrence, like clear sky. The one that's out there on the right ground. Uh-huh. Well, or, yeah, they're extremely rare or extremely, yeah, extremely rare. They don't happen a lot of the time. They're very fast. And what else? That's right.

[12:37]

And what else? What is the distinction? There's that, too. There's that, too. And what else? Doesn't this say something about page row remarks? Hmm? What about page row remarks? What's that about? A lot of people are looking down at the ground. It's like you have to be able to meet them. You have to be able to meet them?

[13:38]

You have to be a child. You have to be a patch robe monk. What's a patch robe monk? You say we're nothing. Huh? I don't understand that. Patch robe monk is a Zen monk. You know a patch robe? I don't know. I mean, you know, so what does it mean? What's a patch robe monk? Someone has given up everything. Mm-hmm. Also, pastoral monks don't study. When nothing's happened. Pastoral monks, of course, do study, but when they study, they're not pastoral monks anymore. They're like scholars, and they can do that. They also play golf, as I've mentioned a number of times. But also, there's something about patriarchal monks that when they study, you know, the text, they're not relying on the text, right?

[14:40]

That's their tradition. They do study. But, you know, studying the book or studying the table next to the book or studying the tree outside the window, it's all because they're not really studying anything. So that's another reason why this text exists. This story really is for patriarchal monks. The other story can be studied by... patriarchal monks could study that, too, if they wanted to, I suppose. And scholars could study their story. But we have to be patriarchal monks to understand this story. In other words, I think, as somebody said, you have to have a meeting with these people in order to understand this story. So it's kind of a nice story. Not to say that other stories aren't like that, but it seems like this one is a hard case, in a way, because It's kind of like saying right off, well, you have to become, you have to meet these people in order to get this story. So, there we are. So you have five or six months to get it together.

[15:43]

And to become, even if you don't become, shave your head and wear the robe. In order to understand his story, you sort of need to become a pastoral monk to really understand. In other words, to realize the story. This story doesn't provide too much material, like the last one did, I think. We can use that story. What, Grace? Well, I was just thinking it's sort of lacking in instruction. Yeah, it's lacking in instruction. Is that how we get there? Yeah, it's lacking in instruction. Well, it lacks in literal instruction. It has a lot of ironic instruction. And so, when I read a story like this, I feel like, well, obviously what this story is about is not what the instruction is. We're not going to give you any instruction. That's the instruction here. Seems like, for starters, anyway, this is a very strict story. And it's probably about real intimate situations that's very close to the bone.

[16:53]

Yes? I have a slightly different idea about the irony in the story. It seems to me that when they talk about each other being crooks, thieves, what I'm reminded of is the con game Bait and Switch, where a con man offers something to somebody, and they grab it, and when they get it, they find out that it wasn't what they thought they were grabbing after. So I take their interpretation of the ironic nature of this, to not necessarily be, you're a thief, or whatever it is, you're great. But actually, you're doing a bait-and-switch on people. You're creating something for them that is... that they're going to go after, and they want to grab, they want to go forward and get it.

[17:54]

But then they... but that's not really turning the light inward. What happens is when they get it, what happens is the light is shown inward, and that kind of bait and switch makes the minister a thief be followed. So that's a slightly different interpretation of how they might use it. It's still ironic, but it's not ironic in the sense that they're just saying the opposite of what they mean. It's a softer iron-graded rather than opposite. Rather than opposite, different. I didn't understand what that is. What? I didn't understand what that is. Would you please explain a little further? It seems to me that... The teachers and the story, I mean, these are great Zen people, and people all over the nation know who they are, and they're going to them for teaching.

[19:04]

They're going to them to try, they're going out in the world and trying to get teaching from them. And they're appealing to them to, you know, he came up and said, an answer to his teacher. That's like, that's a direct expression of the idea. I'm appealing to you to give me the teaching, to transmit the teaching to me. And that to me is like actually an immediate tip-off because a true adept kind of takes the idea of it isn't a question of an external teaching that you have to grasp. It's turning the light inward that matters. And so that immediately reveals his capacity, his adeptness, so to speak. John Funk recognizes it. He calls him a thief because he's playing the bait and switch game. He's throwing out You know, here, you know, teaching is something that you can grasp, or, you know, I can get it from an answer, but really you can't do that. So he's calling him a thief. He's calling him a thief.

[20:05]

The human man says, I thought I was like Hobai the crook. You're like Hobai, even worse. So he's pointing out things to compliment it. You're putting out this teaching for people to grasp, but really what they have to do is turn the light inward. So you're playing a bait-and-switch with them, so to speak. You're giving them the incentive to grasp the teaching, to go forward and take the teaching. Wait a second. You're reading as he thought he, that Yun-men, or Yun-men was? Yun-men said, I thought I was like Hobai the crook. Oh, okay. He changed it to that, huh? You're like Hohei, even worse. Oh, Cleary changed that. That's Cleary's interpretation. Okay. Another way to translate it is, I thought it was Hohei. It's even Hohei. It, rather than I and you.

[21:10]

He changed it to I and you? Yeah. Ah, it's interesting. Well, just to make it a little bit more interesting for you, another translation is, in both cases, you know, you, I thought you were, and now I see you are. Okay, another translation. Or I thought it was, but now I see it's, and clearly that it's before, in a earlier translation. What is it? Well, I thought it was a situation of, you know, this famous thief, but now I see it's a situation of even worse than I thought. Or, another translation is, I thought you were, I heard you were, I thought you were, and now I see you are. So it's interesting, clearly now, in this, I didn't look at this one, I looked at this old one, and there, it's it both times. So there's another little difference why maybe you have that tape, yeah, you could see.

[22:12]

That's why it reminds me of Act 863, in which he says at the end, I am still above, but you're still moving. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. That story may be more clearly changed this translation. There's nothing about I and you in the Chinese. And it's like, in the beginning, I thought it was monkey white.

[23:22]

Then there is monkey black. I mean, that's kind of like literal reading. So it is, you know, I'm not excluding that one. So there's always possibilities that he's saying, I thought I was, but you're worse than me. Or I thought you were, you're worse than I thought. Or I thought it was this situation, not even saying you. There's no you or me in the Chinese. I thought it was a situation of lying and thievery like that story. But now I see it's even, now I even see that it's like a black white monkey, monkey white. Yes. It was a little story about a New Yorker a couple of weeks ago about a playwright, Dennis Potter, who was close to death. Yes. At one point, he said, boy, when you see the present, you can certainly celebrate. He wrote something that made it a movie.

[24:27]

What did he write? Danny Sturman. Danny Sturman. What else did you say? Something else. And the singing detective. I don't know. That was energy. The singing detective was very, very interesting. And this guy's interesting. Look at the introduction, if you wish. Where the wheel of potential turns, even the eye of wisdom is confused. And by the way, the word potential there, you know? That's that word, that character in my name, that key, which means potential, means energy, means opportunity, means function. So when the wheel of opportunity, or the wheel of... And that word is opportunity, you know, or potential, means that in different contexts, it takes on the color of the context.

[25:36]

So if you're talking about the functioning of the mind, when you see that word, well, then you can basically put mind in there, intellect, because it means potential or opportunity. So you can say the key, like you say, when you're thinking, the key is, but then you can say when you're thinking, the intellect is. So in this case, the word potential or activity is, So when the wheel of activity, the wheel of potential, turns, the wisdom eye is bewildered. So, okay, so then it says, not even a mote of dust gets by. What do you have? Oh, no, excuse me. When the precious jewel mirror is opened, not even a mote of dust gets by. It gets past. It gets past. Opening the fist without falling to the ground?

[26:38]

Not falling to the ground. Opening the fist without... Or just not. Opening the fist, not dropping to the ground. Responding to beings according to time? What? Dealing with beings. Dealing with beings. Responding to beings according to the time. Two swords meet. How do you interchange, interplay? What sleeps change. Okay. It's basically the same. But so with this first, what do you think you talk about? What's this business about when the wheel of the opportunity is turned, the wisdom eyes bewildered or confused? What's that about? John Feng's answer, first answer, he asked for an answer, like Annie was saying, calling him a teacher and asking for an answer, and John Feng says, have you, are you ready, have you come to me yet, are you here yet?

[27:42]

It's like asking, could you hear an answer? It's kind of like, well it's irony, it's also kind of an insult, or it's kind of, It's kind of playing with, is there this real potential there yet? Potential has to do with the future and what could be and not what is right now, so that's why it can be confusing. Confusing. It seems like there's something like this dynamic, this energy is just, it is right here.

[28:47]

And if there's an eye of wisdom, it's not what I ordinarily understand of that wisdom, so I'm a little bit confused about what I'm saying, but somehow the notion of an eye of wisdom seems like it's something that's that is studying, or that's separated a little bit. And it's used by something that just is right here. Well, I was taking the eye of wisdom to refer to the the vision of emptiness and the wheel of potential or opportunity that is a It raises the threat of the problem of reification.

[29:49]

Something is about to happen or something is in the process of happening. So it's at that moment when the potential is activated that it is possible to confuse the eye of wisdom. And it's that moment that's like a test. That's a little bit like Mayer was saying in a sense of if the eye of wisdom, in this case you could understand the eye of wisdom as some kind of wisdom. But then when the actual function or opportunity of the situation shifts, Wisdom actually gets confused. You can say the eye, but anyway, any kind of penetration, any kind of realization.

[30:50]

You wouldn't even have to be dualistic. You wouldn't even have to have any dualism left in it. It could be a very deep penetration, but when things change, it becomes confused or bewildered. Is that Petro-Month that's talking about? Is what a pastor of monk? I don't think so. I think the pastor of monk represents the possibility that we don't hold on to our wisdom. We don't hold on to our study. That it's possible to enter into the study in such a way that when the situation turns, even the eye of wisdom would get disoriented. But something doesn't. Something can not even hold on to wisdom. In other words, there's a wisdom that doesn't hold on to wisdom, and that's called wisdom beyond wisdom.

[31:53]

It's not even wisdom anymore. But, of course, only people that have wisdom have this problem of the wisdom being confused. Some people wouldn't even, their confusion wouldn't even be confused. They would just be confused and the opportunity would turn and they would just stay confused. Very nicely. Their confusion might evolve a little bit one way or another, but basically the The movement, the turning of the opportunity doesn't really bother people's confusion too much. But wisdom will get challenged by events, even the deepest wisdom. So shallow wisdoms will get disturbed by it, which is kind of disturbing. And deep wisdoms will get disturbed by it too. Are you saying they'll get caught somehow? Deep wisdom will get caught. How do you disturb it?

[32:54]

It'll drop down into some dual kind of relationship with that party? It'll get caught or thrown through a loop or it will become obsolete. It will be late. It'll be obsolete. It'll be what you call redundant. In England, when you get fired, you're called redundant. So I think part of what they're suggesting here is that in this previous story, which is a good story, it's a story of wisdom. Their meaning, which is a very nice meaning, but you can still study this because it's a story of wisdom. This story they're proposing is a story which goes beyond wisdom, which will throw wisdom for a loop. and only depths can. First of all, depths, of course, have some penetration, but they also don't get thrown by their penetration.

[34:03]

Depths also have some wisdom, but their wisdom doesn't throw them, because of the way they hold it, which has to do with this baiting thing. You can't bait their wisdom. You can't say, oh, they have some wisdom, and use that wisdom against them. Of course, some people, you can't use their wisdom against them either because they don't have any, but we're talking about people who have some wisdom, and you can use their wisdom to trick them. Like people with some riches, you can use their riches to trick them. Like, you want to make more? Or double your money? Want to get something with your money? I don't know what they really have with them. Well, except in this case, you don't ask them if they want to get something for it because they don't want to get anything, right? You ask them, maybe you ask them, want to help people? Want to help more people than you were able to help before?

[35:09]

You want to help like everybody? And you want to like relinquish all your spiritual powers? You want to be able to, like, drop all your attainments? Huh? Now, most people don't want to drop their attainments, right? So they say, no way. Give me some. Either give me some or let me keep mine. I don't want to really... But some people think, oh, you mean, like, there's some way for me to become free of my attainments even? Wow! I'll go for that one. And this is what a wise person would like, is to be free of their wisdom. So you can get them. They get confused, yeah. But they get bewildered. Wait a minute, this sounds really good. This is better than what I've got now. I mean, this is like freedom from my arrogance. That would be great. But, Rav, is it really wisdom that they have or just knowledge? Okay, let's say they've got knowledge.

[36:12]

Okay, now let's give them wisdom. and then when they've got wisdom then let's then let's confront that wisdom with something called the actual turning of the opportunity of the whole cosmos okay when that happens wisdom doesn't hold up either you know it's uh in the in the uh have you heard of the avatamsaka sutra or the flower adornment scripture you heard of that yet Anyway, it's a big thing, and the last part of it is about this young guy who goes to visit 53 teachers, and his tour guide for the first 52 is Manjushri, the bodhisattva of infinite wisdom, or, you know, penetrating wisdom. At the last stage, Manjushri says, I can't take you to the last stage, and Samanta Bhadra comes to do it. So in other words, you have to really go beyond wisdom to finish.

[37:15]

So wisdom is definitely good stuff, but you have to get free of it. Because it still seems to be something. So anyway, they're suggesting that even wisdom gets disoriented and bewildered when confronted with the wheel of the opportunity turns. Yes. But in this, or sort of my gut level feeling about it is it's kind of like going like this on a baseball bat. Uh-huh. I can imagine that this conversation could go on and on and on. I mean, it's sort of like each answer is a perfect response in terms of undoing the question that was posed before it. I mean, unlike most of the last... This isn't a story. This is just showing, or at least the way I experience it, it's showing an interaction between two people in which they keep meeting, going up a ladder, going straight, or whatever direction.

[38:23]

They're perfectly coming behind one another like that. So it could go on and on. And I guess I don't understand. How would you make it a story, Grace? How would I? Yeah. What would you make it a story? Um... Well, I think of 39 more as a story. There's sort of a point to it. I mean, the image stays more static for me. What makes a story? Tell us about what a story is for you. When do you feel like... When there's a beginning and an end. it stops the point it's contained what makes the end of the story it's an agreement between speaker and hearer it's a mutual agreement that they come to an end there isn't anything more to be said so but how does that mutual agreement happen that they come to an end

[39:36]

Somebody drops the ball sometimes. Well, if there's an agreement, when did the agreement happen? There's a question and an answer. Huh? A question and then an answer. Transformation. Then the story's ended. There's a question and an answer. What's that to make the story over? Something changes. Something changes? What makes a story? Okay, here's a story. A gorilla changes into a woman. Is that a story? Is that a story? Well, I'll go on then. A gorilla changes into a woman, and a woman changes into a man, and a man changes into a frog, and a frog changes into a Buddha, and a Buddha changes into a mountain. Is that a story? Yes. But it's a story if the gorilla wants to become a woman and goes through various things. Okay. Wait a second now. Do you agree with her? Do you agree with her? Yes. Okay, so now watch this. There was a gorilla who wanted to be a woman.

[40:44]

and the gorilla became a woman. No, first he has to do something. You don't need to. You don't need to, but if you want to, you can do that. There once was a gorilla, and the gorilla wanted to be a woman. And the gorilla went to a department store and asked the people at the department store, how do you get to be a woman? And he said, go to the second floor. The gorilla went to the second floor and they had a dual department there where you could become a woman. And he went in there and he said, well, I'd like to become a woman. And they said, okay, now you're a woman. I disagree. I think that's a lousy story, but I think it is a story. And I can make it more interesting if you want to, but basically, what made it a story? The story is that there's a whole bunch of elements that are connected together, and it comes to an end when everything makes sense.

[41:50]

And when does everything make sense? okay it doesn't have to make sense but what makes it a story the thing I told was a story when the past meets the future when the past meets the future what does that happen when the past meets the future what happens Nothing, but it looks like something. In the past? No, no. Here's the past. Here's the past, okay? There's the present. Something happens, okay? And something else happens. Changes. Something else happens. Something else happens. Something else happens. When does it become a story? There's a sequence of changes. When does it become a story? There's a connection between the beginning and the beginning. Yes. And then what happens when there's a connection between the beginning and the end? What happens between the end? It makes a circle. And when it makes a circle, the end connects to the beginning. So if there's an agreement about something at the beginning, then when the agreement's fulfilled, it goes back to the original agreement.

[42:51]

Or if there was a motivation at the beginning, When the motivation is concluded, that's the end of the story. There can be some stories, but that's the end of the story. Whenever you watch any story, whenever anything happens, that comes into the story. So like I said, you know, the gorilla went to the department store. He wanted to become a woman. And he said, huh? He wanted to become a woman. Went to the department store. He said, why did they bring up the thing about the department store? What was the point of that? When he got to the department store, he said, how do you become a woman? So that shows you why he went to the department store. Now, he could have gone differently. He could have said he went to the department store and went down into the cafeteria and asked for some bananas. And they said, we don't have any bananas, but we do have Cracker Jacks. Do you know how to open a Cracker Jack thing? And he said, yes, I do. And... So then they go on, and finally he points out, people say, what are you doing here?

[43:52]

We have to unhappy many gorillas as customers here. And he said, well, I came to, you know, to see it. Maybe I could find out here about how to become a woman. So that element connects with the thing. But that's not the end of the story, necessarily. But it's a reasonable element. We do not yet know why they would have the thing about going into the cafeteria, except that there was a person working there who asked him the question about, you know, why he got there. But the thing that would end the story would be when it connects to the original motivation. Also, the thing that would end the story, another end of the story, could be something about why the story is about a gorilla. That could also be told why we're studying a gorilla. It could also connect to the beginning. So this story, you said it wasn't, you didn't see it as, you saw it as a story. You saw 39 as a story. I saw 40. You saw 39 as a story. So now how is 39 a story? Well, he asked how to enter the monastery. Yeah, he entered the monastery and asked for some guidance. Guidance.

[44:53]

And then he says, how do you get breakfast? Yes. Yes, I do. And then he says, if I want you, also gets his guidance. He gets his guidance, and also, it's a circle. Okay? So now, in this story, Grace doesn't see a circle. She says she doesn't think of a story. Is there a circle in this story? Yes. But I think that each one of those, I think that each meeting, each... The story can go like this several times. It can go like that. It can go like this too, but each one has to be a circle for it to be a story. Now, the thing is, what is it? In a lot of these stories, you wonder, you know, why could they stop here? Is this a story that loops around once and twice, or is it just one loops once? If it loops twice, why do they do it twice rather than three? Look at those kinds of things. Now, this is part of what to look at here. Is this a dot?

[45:56]

You know, a circle is a dot. It's nothing about a narrative. The thing about a narrative is a narrative is a dot. And all these things, these stories, stories of enlightenment happen in eternity. They don't happen in two or three moments. They happen in a time that doesn't have duration and in a time that is all-embracing. So this is a story about a moment. These stories are about a moment. In other words, they're about a time that you can't spread out into moments. But because we think in terms of stories being across moments, this helps us enter into the nature of the story of enlightenment. because somehow making things temporal brings them down to birth and they're separated.

[47:04]

But in enlightenment stories, although they happen, some people see them, you know, in the world of birth and death, people look at them and they think that this happened over five minutes or two seconds or whatever. From their point of view, this didn't have any duration. As a matter of fact, even though it had no duration, it was an eternity. But it was eternity brought down to earth, so it looked like it took, you know, ten seconds or something to happen. And there has to be a story in order to bring it down. These stories are avatars. It seems that there's this kind of delicate story here between the first line, which is an answer please teacher, and the line that says, is that so?

[48:20]

Say it again. There's this story. I hear this story between an answer to the teacher and the ending of the story, which is, is that so? Is that so? And then there's this commentary in the final line of the story. Kind of like an epilogue? Yeah. There's quite a complete little story in the first poem. Yeah. So then there's a literary question of why one would include the next commentary line. Would it be a better story not to have a commentary line? Which tells us what has just happened is really great. Just in case you hadn't noticed. Or do you maybe see that actually the story wasn't done until he said that?

[49:25]

And if that completes the story, in some sense. Well, the last line seems like a kind of acquiescence. It's an ironic acquiescence. This is more than I thought. I, after all, bit off more than I could shape it. So that could go with Martha's sense of the story's over and he just bows. It's like a bow. It's like a bow at the end of the story.

[50:30]

But it's a display, you know, it's a bow, but only as young men could bow. Oh, they should have a good time, too. What is humor? Define humor. What happened just now? She laughs. What happened? Humor. It's a square. Humor is getting out of an unresolvable situation. What happened just now when she said it was humor, and I said, define humor, and she laughed. What happened there, Janet? What happened? Yeah, how come you laughed?

[51:32]

Oh, I laughed because, um... What happened that time? Because that's what you get around to tonight. Somebody says a sentence, and you go, and, define irony, and define humor. But... Humor. Did the eye of wisdom get confused? Is that what's funny about the story? Is that your eye of wisdom got confused? Or did your eye of confusion get wise? My eye of wisdom is light. I hold it lightly. You do? Yeah. Sounds like a good idea. It seems in the last time that he's just saying, you're good, you're really good.

[52:32]

That's what it seems like. You know, that he's smiling. Now, would you have included that in the story or would you have left it out? I would have included it. Martha, would you have included or left it out if you were the editor here? I would have left it out. It's so sweet without it. It's like they defy time. They just beam time. That's why it's not historic in the sense that it wasn't a secret. It's just like this explosion. And then they kind of took it back in the literary mind. So I leave that. Would it be terrible to suggest it has a programmatic value in that it describes a meeting between a master of two schools and the Sao Dong school is acknowledged by young men?

[53:37]

Would that be too awful? Oh, no, that's funny. But there's another way of understanding programmatic is that what's happening here is that we have something which is what is called non-programmatic, which has been translated into the world of programming. This is words for us, you know, we live in the realm of words. So now the non-programmed people just allowed themselves, they just entered the realm of programming for our sake. you know, they'd come down into the Green Dragon cave where we'd talk and they'd put on this little show for us of the non-programmable into a program. And then you could say also they just, as a sideshow, did this little sectarian appreciation. But

[54:42]

When the unprogrammed come into a program and show us the kind of programs that unprogrammed put on, what did they teach us? How did the program which they presented teach us about the programs and also about the non-unprogrammed? What did we learn about the unprogrammed? It was Miriam first and then Cynthia. I see the potential there, but of the intimacy between these two, which I really want. You get a glimmer of intimacy. Yes. Yeah, that's right. In the unprogrammed realm, things are intimate, right? Because we've been talking about last week. In the unprogrammed world, there's not a single thing that exists. Nothing exists by itself. There's intimacy between everything. Nothing's separated in that world of ultimate freedom.

[55:44]

Everything's itself, but also never separate from anything else. Okay? Well, I love that verse down there about the boseye. Yeah. The 100% boseye. So that intimacy now is being brought into the world where things aren't intimate, where the first line is separate from the second line and so on. But these words are separated, these lines are separated, these two people seem to be separated, but they're conveying an ineffable intimacy. And they're demonstrating how people who are intimate act in the world of separation and distance. They're showing us that. And how did they And what have we learned about how to practice in this world of separation? What have we learned in this story so far? It works if you can't touch it.

[57:02]

It's possible. Okay, now, since this last class, for a while, we need to hear from... Did you have to speak? And Clay, and Lorraine, and Misha, and Galen, and you kind of talk, Barry, and Pat, and Pete, and... Nicole and Michael and your visitor, Connie, so you have to say anything? I mean Carrie and Linda and Michael. Sonia. These people, please speak quickly before the class is over. Okay. physical gestures are fine so I appreciate you live wires but sit back and relax and let these other people we're just going to wait for these other people to the designated speakers oh Jennifer you didn't say anything either so please would you guys as your swan song of this

[58:32]

I keep feeling that this is the end of a millennia, but anyway. I'm anticipating the year 2000. This reminds me of two comedians and their timing is impeccable. It's hard to make human. I remember a phrase that Arlene Koch used to use sometime about, I think she was talking about Makarova dancing, and she said, her impeccability moved into ineffability. So there's something impeccable here in this program which alludes to ineffability. The ineffability comes into impeccability. So that's maybe one thing we learned from this story. We learned that we must be impeccable. We maybe can't do it all the time, but when we're not impeccable, then what do we do?

[59:37]

Huh? What? Sit. Well, yes, that's always nice, but what do we do? What do we do when we're not impeccable? Do it. Forgive? Well, that's nice, but there's the stuff before that, Michael. What? Confess. You know what the opposite of impeccable is? Peccable. You know what peccable means? It comes from ped. It comes from footsie. Impeccable means to fall, to trip. Impeccable means you don't trip. But when you trip, then you... examine your tripping. And then you forgive yourself after you examine your tripping. Or as part of your examining your tripping, you forgive. That's part of studying your error. So then, by examining that, that protects you. Then you go back to study impeccability. And impeccability is our access to

[60:41]

Impeccability is closely related to studying impeccability. They're very close. Studying our errors is very close to not making an error. Because when you make an error, it's not an error to study the error. Examining an error is not an error. It's a good idea. And if you're impeccable about the way you examine your errors, that's our point of contact in this world to the ineffable. So that's one thing we learn from this story. If we can see what's impeccable about their behavior, if we can tune into that realm there and then observe how is our speech. Are we careful? Are we with our speech the way we see here is? Thank you, Jennifer. Next. Here we go. The case for this seemed like a very ordinary way of being in time and on time and the instruction about that.

[61:56]

And Case 4 seems to be a demonstration of what that might look like. I think that Case 39, part of the instruction I've shared with you, is that Case 39 shows a way to harmonize and flow with the realm of time. how to sort of get with the program and flow with the program very nicely, to take in what's happening, to work with it, to chew it up and digest it. And when you're done, when you have finished your processing, then let it go. But this is more like the understanding of how to get with it. And then if you get with it long enough, perhaps you have realization of what this story is about. And then again, after getting with it by having breakfast and then finishing your breakfast, and then now you've actually used what you have, or I was talking to somebody about, you have your breakfast there, and you may not have finished your, perhaps, we sometimes have potatoes here, you may not have finished your potatoes, but you have decided that you're not going to eat them.

[63:17]

So you actually have finished your breakfast, even though there's some potatoes left. And then you can actually put your potatoes in the compost. But if there's still some potatoes left, and you haven't concluded whether you're going to eat them or not, you haven't had your breakfast. It isn't necessarily that you have to eat everything on your plate. But you do have to be ready to say, well, I haven't eaten the potatoes, but I am actually not going to eat them. So I'm done with my breakfast and I can let go of the potatoes. Otherwise, the other way to understand it is you finish everything you've got in your bowl. But one way to finish it is decide you're not going to eat it. Some things maybe you don't want to eat. In other words, you don't want to take them in and chew them. That's okay, but then you have to decide, I've used them enough before chewing them, and then you can let them go. So this is how to get with the flow. Once you get with the flow, then you can have realization. In this case, it seems to be mostly emphasizing, rather than the process by which you would do that, it seems to be emphasizing expression of realization. You still worship of old

[64:23]

Even though we decided not to eat all the potatoes? Yeah, I think you can put the potatoes in the compost and wash your bowl. You have finished your breakfast. You've finished... I didn't eat everything on my plate when I said it. You didn't eat it, but you finished it. You're not going to eat it. You've made that decision. You're done with the experience. And one way to be done with an experience is to process the whole thing and convert it into something else. The other way is to leave some things alone and then let them go and give them away. There's many ways to deal with our experience, in other words. So if you just think about the process of eating and the many ways to relate to breakfast or lunch or whatever, there's lots of ways to be done. And there's lots of ways that you can be ready to really let go of an experience. This is the one I studied for tonight. I took that eating breakfast to speak more than just having experience.

[65:28]

I thought it was more like an enlightenment experience. It could be that too, and then wash that away. Yeah. Yeah. But you see, it's interesting that he said, he thought of it as something, I mean, I don't mean to make fun of you now, but he said he thought of it as something, he thought of it as something more than an experience, he thought of it as an enlightenment. When you really do have your experience fully, That's enlightenment. It isn't like you have a full experience and then there's this little thing on top of it or even a big, huge thing on top of your experience called enlightenment. Enlightenment is actually your experience. Your experience itself is enlightenment. But you have to fully engage your experience in order for it to be enlightenment, in order for you to cash in on it. So in that case, what that story is about is how to let go of enlightenment. which is also letting go of enlightenment is how to get with the program, which is what this is about.

[66:37]

This case is about that too. This case is about letting go of enlightenment. These people, the eye of wisdom, the wisdom eye, the enlightened vision, has to be let go of. Enlightenment will get thrown for a loop when things change. This seems to me like Aesop's fable, that at the end of the story, at the end of the fable, if you still don't get it, there's the moral. So that's why I would include the last. So if you still don't get it, there's... Well, this is a literary matter. It's an aesthetic matter here. But we do seem to be coming down to the side of the last line seems to be something of a moral or a commentary or something on what's been happening before.

[67:42]

Come on, let's go. That's good. Keep it up. Jennifer. In commentary to that line, it says, among experts, there's no expert. I kind of like that. I can't explain it again. But I like that line. And among Pacherov monks, there's no Pacherov monks. I'll say it. Well, I have to admit that I don't really get this story. That's an alpha to you. Come on, let's go. Who's next? You only have ten minutes to go. Get your licks in. It's not being on high. No, no, new people, new people. It's like the end of an AM meeting. Does anybody have any burning design? Yes. It's always nice to be coy, isn't it?

[68:50]

Clay, good. What do you do if you have your bull and your potatoes suddenly jumps and it turns into a tiger in you? That's what this, to me, where the wheel of potential turns, it's like, you know, so maybe you're expecting one, you're expecting a potato, and suddenly something happens. Yeah. You know, you get confused, you don't know what to do, or like, Linda grabs you, and says, poor you, or whatever, and the guy hesitated. You know, it's like, that's what I thought of that one. It's just like things twisting all of a sudden. Now we kind of react. Right? You're off your feet. You can go home now. And Jennifer will go with you. Or you can go with her. I'm glad. Why didn't you say anything? I was really embarrassed. He's going to see tires on the road. I hope you don't see any frogs.

[69:57]

They're too long to bring up. Just squish them at a time. Physical performances are acceptable to preserve the expression. Okay, I'm going to start calling them people now. One, two, three. Michael. Michael. Do anything you'd like to say to us before you leave tonight? I'm just observing the process. The first half of the class I wasn't tracking. And, uh... Just, uh... I feel like I'm sort of full of what's going on. I just really don't know that I can apply to the content what's going on in the story.

[71:06]

What can you apply to the story or the content in the story or what's happening in class to your daily life? Yeah, in some ways. Especially what you were saying a little earlier about Just observe it and learning from the observing and the light attached to that. Just not how living life is a question of observing mistakes or observing things that we do that needs to be corrupted, stripped down. Oh, excuse me. I didn't say hanging butt correct. You can say that, it's okay. But I didn't. Did you notice? Actually, I noticed that right after I said that. I didn't hear a word correct. Yeah. What I said was, in accord with the ancient tradition, examine. Examine.

[72:09]

There's something about awareness transforms, self-push. Thank you. Right. Did you say that one? I don't know, but I'll take credit for it. I did this workshop with Brother David, and he started quoting the Dalai Lama and giving me credit. Actually, I did say, well, I think I appreciate you. You're giving me credit for a Dalai Lama statement. He's very kind. I'll be doing more workshops with you. But beforehand, though, I'll feed him a lot of Dalai Lama lines. I don't know. There was this great potter named Hamada.

[73:13]

He didn't sign his works. And he said, why don't you sign your works? And he said, well, if in the years to come they find any works that are no good, they'll say that they're not mine. If they're good, they'll say they're mine. Well, it's... I'm not clear on whether there's some meditation instruction here, and so, or there is. Well, it's been suggested that the meditation instruction here is impeccability, is to be impeccable. And so, if you can appreciate that, try to look and see what's impeccable about their conversation. from the beginning to the end. See if you can see some impeccability here. Even studying impeccability is perhaps instruction to us about how our speech might be impeccable.

[74:27]

Besides being silent, that is. They don't fall off the ground. Yeah, but examine the words and see what's impeccable about them. I mean, what's impeccable speech? That's one meditation instruction. The other instruction is about can you see their wisdom or their awakening encountering the working of the universe? and how can you see how there's some wisdom that's getting challenged by the working of things and how they either get thrown or don't get thrown by what's happening, whether how there is or is not any holding here to their insights. So part of what this is about, I guess, is to, I think, examine your own insights.

[75:32]

And see if you hold them. I mean, all of us have some insight. What level of insight do you have? Or what level of insight has functioned in your life? So one meditation instruction is, please try to find some way to express your level of your insight, your realization. And then, how do you hold that? Janet has considerable realization and she holds it lightly, which is very good. Some of you other people may be able to discover what your realization is. How do you hold that? Is it getting pushed around? Like I know this guy I talked to, I was talking to, I was saying that if you look carefully, you might be able to see that you feel pain in your separation from others. And he said... I don't feel any pain feeling separated from others. He said, I feel separated, but I don't feel any pain around it.

[76:35]

I'm happy to be separated from them. What bothers me is that, you know, they're so screwed up and they don't understand how wise I am and do what I say. I know. I know. I said, well, that is painful to you, right? He said, yes, that's painful. I said, well, that's an example of alienation. You feel alienated from these inferior beings who won't actually get with the program of your superior insight. And I think he was... You know, some percentage of him was serious about that. Some percentage of him saw how silly that was. But most actually, sincerely, I think he didn't see that it was painful, that his sense of separation was painful. I said, well, they're like over there not cooperating with your program. You're separated from them. If they would come over to your side, you know, and appreciate the superiority of your vision of what should happen, then wouldn't you... wouldn't there actually be more comfortable? He said, yes.

[77:35]

And then wouldn't there be no separation? He said, yeah. So he could see it after a while. But don't we actually have some sense of what would be a good way for things to be working around here? And aren't there some people who aren't actually picking up on that? Does that kind of bother us? And there's an aspect of the meditation there, too, is... We have some wisdom, but the turning of events, you know, with these other people being the way they are, you know, making these wisecracks against our wiseness, cracking our wiseness and making cracks in our wiseness with their insubordination. Yeah. There's something there to observe. How we actually do think we look down our nose to some extent or up our something or other at people because they aren't getting what they aren't understanding as well as they really should.

[78:36]

Something about that I think is here too. I think that's that first line. You see the potential and it's... It confuses you. It can't stay in the present. Right. The potential is so seductive. Yes. So much bigger. Right. Yeah. Yes, Pat, we'll hear from you now. My favorite thing about the story is the feeling of the past is the kind of eternal killing. And what I wanted to say about... It's not. So, right from now on, you people don't have to talk.

[79:38]

Pat will do. And I would like to say that I was having kind of a hard time with this case until I came to class, and I want to thank you all for having me with this. Thank you.

[80:05]

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