Someone quoted to me, I think something that Shakyamuni Buddha said, like, noticing afflictive emotions have an object, or noticing that afflictive emotions have objects, Choose an object for which there are not afflictive emotions. And I think it was followed by, for example, the breath. And I would add that the teaching of What from Maitreya Buddha, through a Sangha to us, is choose an object that is not seen as external.

[01:24]

Or, which is the same as, similar as saying, choose objects which are free of conceptual elaboration. And the specific conceptual elaboration which is the fundamental affliction, which is fundamental to all afflictive states of consciousness, is the conceptual elaboration that what we're aware of is external. If we can find something that's not external, it can be an object of an unafflicted consciousness, an unafflicted subject. And breath is a nice object because we don't usually think that breath is our enemy or our friend or that it's a man or a woman.

[02:51]

Our breath is relatively free of conceptual elaboration. However, I would suggest that it would be good if we didn't elaborate our breath into internal or external, that we really just contemplate the breath without any conceptual elaboration. And while we're at it, everything else too. But we are deeply to conceptually elaborate objects, starting with the basic conceptual elaboration that they're out there on their own. And so that's why we need to practice, in order to realize that they're not, we need to practice bodhisattva ethics.

[04:00]

And the first bodhisattva ethics is embraced by three types, ethics of restoration, samvarashila, ethics of gathering all wholesome factors, kushala-dharma-samgraha-shila, and precept of sharing living beings, satpakriya-shila. And as I mentioned before. The first one is practiced as the foundation of the other two. So when the bodhisattva is practicing wholesomeness, that wholesomeness is understood to best be based on the precept of

[05:39]

In the bodhisattva ceremony, bodhisattva full moon ceremony the other night, when we recited these, I was going to say, embrace and sustain restraint. I vowed to embrace and sustain restraint. But I thought I restrained myself. because I thought, you know, it might be disturbing. And also people might think, he didn't restrain himself. He's not practicing that. So I wanted to say restraint, but I restrained myself because I thought, more important to do the practice than say something which is I will go to the practice committee at Green Gulch and ask them if they will be willing to change it to restraint.

[06:52]

I think that's what the priest, I think that's what it says. It says, it doesn't say kushala, kushala karma, you know, good or right karma. it doesn't say samyap karma, you know, right conduct, shila. It says restraint shila. That's what it says. And then that restraint practice is then articulated or analyzed in various ways. But before you analyze it, one word or one idea restraint. And I remember one time a Zen priest said to me, when your mind is really big, you know, one precept is enough to catch it. You know, or like one thread is enough.

[08:00]

But if your mind's smaller, you need a fine, a fine web to catch it. And, uh, When Dogen Zenji was looking at some of the ancient articulations of the precept of restraint, details of these small little petty things that were supposed to be restrained, he said, those monks must have had really small minds for them to have to make a rule like this. The Buddha originally didn't have the ethics of restraint for his monks. They came to him, some of them, already practicing the ethics of restraint. Yes? Could somebody please translate restraint?

[09:02]

Translate restraint? Would you translate restraint? I would say Zurückhaltung, oder Zurücknehmen, Narber. So, yeah, so if your mind's really big, just the word restraint or the word stop might be enough to... So, again, these three precepts. The first one settles your mind so that you're settled. And now you can practice the other two. And the one on this side is what develops all the Buddha qualities. The one on this side is what develops all beings. Buddha qualities develop during certain practices in the process of benefiting beings.

[10:08]

So you're nursing beings and seeing to their welfare, but you're also doing practices, wholesome practices, along with your activity of benefiting them. But they're all based on a settled mind which is restraining as much as possible it would be restraining conceptual elaboration around activity. So the oh I forgot to bring it I have a copy of the Actually, I have a copy of one of the Theravada Pratimokkha, which goes in the detailed rules for monastics. And I believe there are like 250 forms and ceremonies for monastics.

[11:12]

male monastics and I think 340 or so monastics. And then they have another set of 10 of each for the male and female novice monastics. And then they have a special set and they have and female lay practitioners, and then they have a special number for lay people when they're doing a monastic retreat, adding a few more while they're in the monastery. But not as many as the monastics themselves have. And these are called the pratyamoksha. These are forms to support what?

[12:18]

To support the correct performance of action. So that would justify I vow to embrace and sustain correct action or right conduct. but it's supporting it by restraining certain activities around what we're doing. mention a difference or the sameness of restraint and renounce?

[13:30]

Well, when you're practicing giving, in a sense, you're You're not attached to your prosperousness. You're not attached to your property. Monks do have some property, like they have robes and bowls, for example. So when you're practicing giving, you're not renouncing your property. But restraint would even be more fundamental than the fact that you're giving away your property or that you're not attached to your property. More fundamental in which? Well, for example, the most fundamental way is that your possessions would not be seen as external.

[14:50]

and therefore you would have no attachment to them, even before you gave them away. So, attaching to something makes it easier to give it away. But you can still be attached to it. You can still see it as external and be attached to it, actually, as out there. and then give it. But the giving would be more unhindered if you never attached to it in the first place at all. The ethics of restraint would be to train away separation between self and the possession. You still would want to practice, perhaps, not perhaps, you still would want to practice the bodhisattva practice of giving.

[15:58]

That would help people perhaps. Giving material objects, giving the teachings. A person who's learned the teachings, it would be the same. You have the teachings which you've learned and you restrain the idea the affliction that these teachings are yours, or that they're out there separate from you, that there's you in the teachings, and that people would think you have some teachings. So the bodhisattva gives teachings, and material things. The restraint would apply to the fundamental situation of the afflictive state which thinks that fearlessness, the teachings and material things are external.

[17:01]

Another example is that this precept of restraint I don't know if this is an example, this is more of a statement. The precept of restraint is the precept that, you know, when you actually have realized the precept, the mind is settled and there's no external objects. Attachment to the things you know. However, it takes a while of practice to get to that point. So, for most of us, when we start practicing the precept of restraint, it flushes out our attachment to the Pratimoksha forms.

[18:09]

So again, the preceptor restraint uses these forms and ceremonies as ways to discover if we're attaching to something. So we have these special things that are set up, like for example, a schedule, bowing, joining our palms, sitting upright in a certain way, being quiet sometimes and not other times, doing certain chants, hitting wooden boards, hitting wooden drums, hitting bronze bells, striking these instruments a certain way at a certain time. And all of these things are the forms and ceremonies that we're working with. And as we're working with them, as we're performing the action ourself, and as we're watching others perform it, and in teaching them how to perform it, at that time, this practice of restraint in relationship to the form shows us kind of like that we do think somebody's out there separate from us.

[19:39]

forms out there separate from us. And we could sort of like renounce, like we see someone doing something in an unusual way, and we can just sort of like let go of it. But still, fundamentally, we might be moving on to some sense of externality. Another way to put it is that these precepts flush out the shadow of our mind, the darkness of our mind. So again, if people are practicing wholesome things, like if they're practicing giving, they don't necessarily notice the shadow. But if you're practicing a form, and you've settled on what, and it's clear to you what the way of doing the form is, then shadow elements can come up which are kind of easily seen.

[20:54]

A kind of fanaticism can come up in relationship to like joining the palms. Fanaticism can also come up in relationship to giving. But it's hard to spot clearly fanaticism for giving because giving is basic. Right? And it's not that joining the palms is basically good or bad. It's just a form to use to realize restraint. To realize restraint if some fanaticism arises in upholding the form or if some fanaticism arises in opposing the form. And when you notice some fanaticism in performing the form or seeing other people who are trying to perform it but are doing it in a way that you think you've instructed them,

[22:03]

If you find that fanaticism, you've found, you know, some secret fear that you didn't know you had. Because, you know, when you first start, well, I shouldn't say, some people are quite quick, but usually when you first start doing these forms, you're not usually fanatical about it. It's hard to be fanatical until you learn them. The fanatics are usually the people who have learned them really well, people who have hung out with people who have learned them really well for a long time and refused to become one of those people. Because those people who are learning really well and are fanatical could be easily found to be kind of obnoxious. So that's the difference between restraint and renunciation.

[23:10]

You could give up all these forms and still not really be restrained. And you could be restrained and not use them. Most people can't learn what restraint is without some form. But some people, one form's enough. They have... And also... I'll go into this again later, I hope. But the essence of Asanga teaches that the essence of precepts has four qualities. See? And the first quality is that they're correctly received from another. So one of the Pratimoksha qualities One of the Pradimoksha forms or ceremonies in this school is to join the palms together and to have the tips of the fingers, the top of the finger level with the lower part of the nose and about a fist distance away from the nose.

[24:23]

That's a form. And I'm saying that that form, in the context of restraint, that form is to discover what restraint means. Restraint of what? Restraint that this is external, restraint of any attachment to it, and restraint of any rejection of it. But just practice the form with restraint. And in the process, you'll notice probably at least once, that you are kind of getting fanatical about it, either attaching to it or resisting it. Resisting in the sense of not wanting to do it, not wanting to give your full attention to it. And especially if you become like, I don't know who, perhaps an Eno or a Tonto or something, you notice that when you teach other people how to do these things and then they do it some quite different way than you taught them, you may notice something funny happening in your mind in relationship to the form that you're saying.

[25:37]

Something funny, something that needs to be restrained. some kind of excessive elaboration on the situation rather than just seeing it calmly and not out there. Want to come up? No? Okay, what do you want to do? What would you like to do? I just wanted to ask a question. Okay. So you said, well, my confession is I realized in the last practice period that my unkind way of saying it about myself is that I'm a form Nazi. A form Nazi? And I said you're a form fanatic. Yeah. Yeah.

[26:39]

Said it that flushing them that out reveals fear. And I was wondering what I, I, I, it sounds right, but I don't, I can't, it's not. Well, it could be, could be fear of rejection, fear of weakness, fear of exclusion. Like, you know, if you're learning the form, you might feel like if you don't do it right, you'll be excluded from the group. Right. And then if you do learn it right, you'll be excluded from the group. Right. And then when you see other people who are doing it wrong, you may feel like they should be excluded from the group. Right. But your feeling wanting to exclude them comes from your fear that you're going to be excluded. Of course. Which you're not aware of. Yes. But the form has a chance to bring it out. Or when people are chanting, particularly when people are chanting the solo performances in the service, they're often very surprised that they're terrified.

[27:50]

But actually when you feel the terror, at that point you're not being so fanatical. It's more fanatical when you're doing that, you know, you're definitely not going to ever be aware of fear. And you're doing it like the right way. Or you're not going to even try to perform these ceremonies because you sense they're going to come up if you did them. And then all these precepts are like that. A lot of people hear the precepts and they trust the person who's talking and they think if I were to receive these precepts, I might not be able to practice. It might be terrible. And so they're kind of wise that they sense that, and they're afraid to receive the precepts. Their wisdom knows that if you receive them, you're going to have problems that you don't have if you don't receive them.

[28:53]

But again, and you receive them correctly from another. From another means from another. You don't make up standards on your own and say, okay, I'm going to do these precepts. You get them from somebody else, and also you get them correctly. And correctly means you're clear about what they are. When you first receive these ethics of restraint, you're not clear what they are usually. It takes a while to get it. You know, again, it's this kind of gassho in this school. In another school, it's this kind of gassho. In another school, it's this kind of guy. Whatever, you know, what are the forms? And then you get them clear. And once you get them clear, then you notice the shortcomings. So once you get them clear, then you enter into the practice of being aware that you're not practicing them. So a big part of the ethics of restraint is noticing shortcomings.

[29:58]

the transgressions. So a big part of ethics of restraint is noticing how you're clear about what the form is and you notice you're either not doing it or you're doing it with lots of extra unwholesomeness around it. And then you confess it and repent it in the presence of the Buddhas. So then it says, you know, it isn't just that you stop doing that. It's that you melt away the root of the transgression. It isn't that finally you do everything right. Melt away the root of fanaticism in relationship to the form. So that the form will be done, is always being done in one way or another, but usually it's done with some fanaticism some too much or too little care.

[31:05]

And when you're really, and the clearer you get about the form, the more you notice these outflows, you know, they're called in Sanskrit called athra. The outflows and inflows, the jacking up or undermining that your mind is doing with the thing. the excessive appreciation or under-appreciation of the opportunity. The more clear the form is, the more you notice the outflows. And outflows are what are restrained. So they're called outflows, they're also called impurities. And again, those are the afflictive emotions in relationship to the form. and you notice them, and you feel regret for them, and you, what do you call it, quietly explore the farthest reaches of the causes and conditions of this.

[32:13]

And this is the practice, the exact, when you do this, this is the exact transmission of Buddha. Buddhas transmit the forms for us to contemplate, The outflows around the forms. The attachments and the rigidities around the form. Have some sense of when we're performing something with tension and with self-righteousness. And again, if we are performing something and we don't feel the self-righteousness, when we get clearer about it, the more clear you get about the form, the more you start to unearth more and more self-righteousness. just get clearer about the form. And if you don't feel any, get clearer about the form. When you get clear enough, you'll find you're self-righteous about it, because finally you got perfectly clear. Yes?

[33:15]

Is there something you'd like to say about upholding forms and ceremonies and restraint? The upholding is the opportunity for noticing the fanaticism. Of course, the opposing of the forms of ceremony is another opportunity. And in the upholding, you receive those forms from another and you receive them correctly means you clarify what the form is. So you're spending a lot of your time as Eno trying to clarify what the form is between yourself and other practice leaders. and various performers of these forms. And all the people do some forms, and some people do, and some of the forms are just performed by a subset of the Sangha. So you're trying to transmit the form to them correctly, and as they become, you and they become clear in the upholding of this form, and we're upholding this form for the sake of this Bodhisattva precept.

[34:29]

And if when we understand this Bodhisattva precept, like the Buddha understands the Bodhisattva precept, you don't need them anymore. Because when you understand them, what do they call? Pratimoksha. When you understand them, you're liberated. But prior to liberation, there's some clinging to them. And the clinging of it You can confess, you can feel regret, you can feel embarrassment, and you do this confession with the regret and the embarrassment in the presence of the Buddha, and it melts away the root of transgression. It melts away the root of what? Of seeing these forms as external. And for most people, again, if the form's indefinite enough, They don't resist them, and they're not self-righteous about them.

[35:36]

But as you put more energy into them, and as they get clearer, you put more energy into them. When you put more energy into them, you can become clearer. As you put more into them, you start to notice more that in the upholding, there's some outflow, some clinging. Then that clinging then is noticed. And again, all the feelings that come up with that, noticing it, you don't necessarily confess those feelings, but having those feelings, you confess the thing that you regret and that you're embarrassed about in the Buddhist, and it melts away the root of it. And without upholding, a lot of people would not be able to locate their fanaticism. their obsessive-compulsive behavior. They wouldn't be able to notice it. And also, it's hard to help people. If somebody's being generous, it's hard to help them. Like, it's not impossible.

[36:39]

It can happen. Like that story I've told many times about, I think one of Sankapa's main disciples, I think his name was Dram. he said to this elder monk in his monastery, he said, he said, it's just so wonderful to see you doing all this good around the temple. I watch you making offerings at the many altars, you know, and you perform the service so beautifully. It would be nice if you did something spiritual someday. And then on another occasion, I watch you work with the young monks. I'm just so touched. You're so kind to them. You know, you're so devoted to them, you're so patient with them. It'd be nice if you did something spiritual. And he did that, gave him various compliments with that punchline. And finally the guy says, what do you mean spiritual?

[37:41]

And he says, stop trying to get something out of it. Stop trying to get something out of life. So, I heard from one of the small groups that people had trouble understanding how can you be devoted to these forms or to these precepts without trying to get something out of it or gain something. Being to understand how you would do good without trying to get something. Or how you would try to do these, you know, gassho without trying to get something. Well, it is possible to learn that. But usually the path to learning it is the path of noticing We're trying to get something out of a gassho. Like, you know, like, if I gassho to Suzuki Roshi, I was trying to get him to say, nice gassho. And I heard a rumor from the Minnesota Zen Center once. He told people there that I had a really great gassho.

[38:44]

And I noticed something when I heard that. I noticed a little, hmm, And at Suzuki Roshi's funeral, I acted as Jisha to the new abbot of Zen Center. And one of the teachers who was sharing the leadership of the funeral sort of imitated my gosh and said, Tenshin Roshi, And I thought he was saying, you know, I thought he was kind of implying, your gassho is a little bit too good. A little bit too amazing. I think he even said, oh, Tenjin Roshi, please teach us how to gassho.

[39:49]

Or, maybe someday we'll all be able to gosho. And, yeah, so these kinds of opportunities arise when you're doing the forms. But if I hadn't been working on that form, and I had been working on that form, at that time I'd been working on it for several years, and I put a lot of energy into it. Because of that, There's a lot of opportunities to learn about myself in relationship to upholding that form. And then again, when you're in a position of being Eno or something, or head Doan, and you're training other people, you can watch what happens in your mind when they do it in each individual ways of doing it. You can watch what happens. Some demeaning thought may arise in your mind. Or perhaps you even say, they do it really well and you feel proud because you taught them. You know, that's my student. Like people sometimes say to me, of so-and-so, I say, I try not to be.

[41:03]

They're excellent, it's true, but I try not to be proud because proud is like they're my student. But maybe there's a little pride there because it's my student. And it goes both ways. It's like someone said to me, I feel like I've come home when I've come here. I've found my home. And then I said, a little bit later I said, well, if you feel like you're home, then, you know, would you like some instruction on our family style? So we call our arms our family style, or it's also called the wind. the wind of the house, or the wind of the family.

[42:08]

So again, I think Thich Nhat Hanh, the way he gassho is kind of like, holds his hand down sort of in front of his heart, and he suggests making kind of like a little space in the gassho like you have a lotus in your palm. But Suzuki Roshi taught to hold the hands more flat. But he actually couldn't hold his hands flat because one of his fingers was broken. But Kadagiri Roshi's hands were not broken. He did have this flat gassho. If you go to the city center on the doors to the kitchen, there are stained glass windows on the two doors. One is Kadagiri Roshi's gassho and Suzuki Roshi's gassho, the two different gasshos. And it's pretty hard to copy Suzuki Roshi's gassho because you have to sort of bend your finger to do it. Like Grace can do it better than most people. Hers is more like Suzuki Roshi's. But most of us who don't have fingers that are kind of difficult to straighten, you know, the usual instruction from Grace and Suzuki Roshi is pretty much just put two flat hands together.

[43:22]

And there's a distance. But Other teachers would transmit it in other ways. So it's the form that is given to you. It's given to you. You don't just say, well, I think I like this one. I'll choose this one. Now, which one was given to you? The Bodhisattva precepts, then you also receive the forms that come with the first Bodhisattva, the first pure precept comes with certain forms. And those forms are also, each one of those are given to you. You don't make them up yourself. And when I gave this person this way of doing gassho, because before that the person had her hands real close to her nose, which was very sweet, actually. I felt very sweet. But it's not our family style. No kissing mudras in this school.

[44:25]

But not really no kissing. It's just that if you do kiss, the teacher might say, did you kiss your mudra yesterday? You know, did you say, yes, I did. I did it on purpose. But are we clear about what the usual form is? Yes. Okay, just checking. So in the giving of them, the teacher or the one who's giving can also see, is there any fanaticism around this form? Gift. And is the person I'm giving to, are they out there separate from me? And then, of course, in this school, we do not have... In our Bodhisattva ceremonies, we do not actually give, literally, the details of the ethics of restraint. We give the three pure precepts in our Bodhisattva ceremony.

[45:36]

But the first one, the ethics of restraint, details of that are given in other training contexts. So in our Bodhisattva precepts we don't say I vow to embrace and sustain gassho with the fingers at a certain level and so on. We don't get into that. We just say forms and ceremonies or ethics of restraint. And then later we get into the details of it. And then again, as we get into the details, many people come and confess around the details or the way that they, in their mind or even sometimes verbally, demean others in relationship to the forms. And people feel very bad about when they see somebody doing the forms in an unusual way but they look down on the person.

[46:39]

And that's the second part. When you receive the forms correctly and you have, you know, the aspiration to be a bodhisattva, the pure intention to realize enlightenment for the welfare of others, when you put those two together and you don't the precept correctly, you feel bad. You feel pain. You feel sorrow. That's repentance. You feel embarrassed. And then you confess that in presence of the Buddhas in a place where you actually can do these forms, perform them without the outflows. But in the meantime, it's not just the performance of them without the outflows, it's that you have been you become free of outflows. In other words, you become Buddha.

[47:47]

And also, I also tell this story over and over again about the Buddha who used certain forms in his practice. What he used was to go into the woods, into the forest to meditate. And he did that because when he went into the forest, he became afraid. He used that form so he could get in touch. And this scripture is called Fear and Dread. That's the name of the scripture. So in that scripture, The Buddha said, and if I was walking and fear and dread arose, I would just keep walking.

[48:50]

In other words, he practiced the precept of restraint. He didn't stop walking. He stopped deviating from walking in the forest. He just kept walking until the fear calmed. If he was sitting and fear arose, he just kept sitting until the fear dropped away. If he was standing and the fear came, he would just keep standing until the fear dropped away. In this way, the outflows around the form of walking or sitting or lying down or standing, he became free of them. And then he was at peace in the forest, in the dreaded forest. And then he said at the end, you may think, Venerable Panasole, that this person is not free because he's still using these forms, these precepts.

[49:59]

So when you actually can do these precepts with no outflows, you don't need them anymore. done their job. When you can gassho this way, you don't need gassho anymore. When you can chant, when you can hit the mokugyo, when you can sit upright with no outflows, the form of sitting upright has done its job. You're free. You're liberated. Pratimoksha, the form which was conducive to liberation has now realized liberation. You don't need it anymore. If you needed it, you wouldn't be liberated yet. So the Buddha said, you may think because I still do these forms that I'm not liberated, that I'm still dependent and attached to these forms that I used. But I am free. But I keep using it for things I like to. Some of these forms, not necessarily all of them, but some of these forms, even if you're a Buddha, you might like to do them.

[51:11]

Like, for example, you might still want to gassho to people. Because you like to, because it's joyful, because it's a wholesome thing, and because it benefits and matures beings. So that's why he kept doing it. And the second reason he did it was to show other people for the future generations, for they would have a form that they could use. And to them. And they could find out about their outflows. And when you find out about your outflows, then you can confess and repent them. And not just that you stop having outflows, but you melt away the root of the outflow you melt away the roots of the transgression. So again, this first precept is to receive this precept, and you're receiving it right now, and some of you have received it formally in a ceremony, but to receive it again and again from who has received it from another, who has received it from another.

[52:23]

The Buddha Shakyamuni received these precepts from Buddhas in the past. There's no beginning to this process, and Buddhas are those who have received these precepts from Buddhas. And we say, these precepts were transmitted by the Buddhas and ancestors to us, and now they're being given to you. And then you get clear about them, and as you get clear about them, then basically most of the time what you're aware of is how And again, the clearer you are, the more subtle the transgressions. At first, before you know them at all, you don't see any transgressions. Gradually, as you learn them a little bit, you see gross transgressions. As you learn them better, you see more and more subtle transgressions. More and more subtle. And again, if you understand that seeing them, acknowledging them,

[53:28]

calmly studying them, that is the exact transmission of a verified Buddha. That is the pure and simple color of true practice. That is the true body of faith. That is the true mind of faith. To receive these precepts, watch and notice the transgression, confess them to the Buddhas, actually confess them to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas is what it says in here, but Asanga says confess it to Buddhas, Bodhisattvas and co- And so you can confess to co-practitioners too. And you may have questions about how to confess to co-practitioners and that would be another form that you could practice. And all this is the emotion of regret when we see a wholesome emotion.

[54:42]

It's painful, but it's wholesome. The sorrow over not following through on the bodhisattva aspiration is sorrowful. That's a wholesome emotion. It's a sorrow for not following through on the wish to realize enlightenment for the welfare of all beings. Embarrassment over not being present is a wholesome embarrassment. And then being kind to that wholesome embarrassment, that's something you don't have to be embarrassed about unless you would be proud that you were kind. to your embarrassment. Although I don't think we should be proud of our kindness to our embarrassments, we should be. Because it's very tempting to be proud when you do something good.

[55:46]

But again, it's not yours, it's not out there, so it's not a possession, so it's kind of embarrassing that you think it's yours. But if you do, you should be honest. Say, you know, I thought that good action was mine, I must admit. I'm sorry I saw it that way. Yeah, just a short time ago I had a talk with one of the senior people here and she said, aren't you just proud of so-and-so? I said, I really try not to be. And she almost convinced me that I should be. Yes? I'd like to get a status report on the thing you came to Zen Center for 40 years ago.

[57:14]

On how you're doing. Welcoming someone saying you have a crummy student. Have you noticed a deepening in your ability to feel the same way about that as the problem? Did that change, or were you just able to see what happened in your space, but the same punch in the stomach still happened? If the punch in the stomach doesn't happen anymore, then that's a different story than the one I'm inspired by. The one I'm inspired by is you do get a punch in the stomach in one case, and in the next case you get a gentle stroke on the cheek. So it's not that the punch in the stomach goes away, it's that you can actually say thank you to the punch in the stomach and say thank you to the stroke on the cheek.

[58:15]

in both cases, and it's just like, thank you, or like, oh, okay, this is happening. So I'm really asking you, though, have you noticed a change in yourself? Yeah, there is that idea that there's been a change. Yeah, like, not too long ago in this room, somebody in this room said that down in the dining room one time he told some other students something that upset them. And what upset them was he told them that he thought I was a crummy teacher. And when he told me that, unlike you, I laughed. Just a second. And I was happy that I laughed rather than... I didn't feel... I didn't feel bad about him calling me a crummy student. I'm a crummy teacher. What if there was somebody who you held in extreme high esteem and what they thought about you as a teacher?

[59:25]

What if it mattered a lot to me? Yeah, what if somebody whose judgment about you as a teacher really mattered to you? Well, you know, actually, whatever anybody thinks about me matters to me. It's not that what people think of me doesn't matter. It's just that what people think of me doesn't matter relative to the way I respond to it. So what really matters to me is not what you think of me. But it isn't that that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me what you think of me. But more important than what you think of me is how I respond to what you think of me, or how I respond to what I heard you say to me. That's most important. The other things are important too. As a matter of fact, the Sangha says that the practitioner of restraint sees with wisdom the praise of exalted beings as like eating vomit.

[60:35]

Does not want it. And also they don't want the praise of less exalted beings either. That would But that would be not as bad a kind of vomit. Does playful have a spot, place in there? Does playful have a spot in there? In order, in the process of practicing the forms and the rules, Regulations, which are part of the pratyamoksha, are forms and regulations. In practicing them, if you're not playful, that's an outflow. So being tense and rigid around them is a When you hold on to

[61:44]

When you hold on to the precepts, things start shaking. You become unstable when you grasp them too tightly because, again, you're saying they can be grasped. When you're playful with them, you're kind of like, maybe I'm right, and maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'm good, and maybe I'm strong, and I don't know, I'm old, I'm young, I'm old. So playfulness is part of no outflows. We need to relax with the forms in order to be playful with them. And we need to be playful with them to understand their dependent core arising and understand that they're not out there. But again, a lot of people relax with Zen forms before they even go near a Zen center. They just hear about a Zen center and say, cool.

[62:47]

Zen's cool. Then they go to Zen center and they see the room and they say, nice. And then they step over the door and they say, wait a minute. Whoa. Did I make a mistake? You know, as they get into it, they start to tense up. And if they, again, if they ignore that tension, then they continue to be tense. If they acknowledge the tension and practice kindness towards it, they start to relax with the forms. But not by doing them half-heartedly. So how can you do the forms wholeheartedly and be relaxed? So you have to be relaxed and playful in order to do the forms without outflow. So presence, being present and pure with your actions includes being relaxed and playful.

[63:59]

Can you come up here? I have two questions. One is There's a form that we are taught here that I don't use very much. And it seems a little bit different. But maybe it isn't. And that is to acknowledge people when you're walking on the grounds, when you pass them, to bow. And... Most of the time I just I just I don't do it or I think I don't want them to have to stop with their you know They're or I don't want to stop my mom Embarrass them or I'll be embarrassed or you know all this all that outflow but is it seems like a form of communication or it seems like it you're doing something with the other person instead of When you're when you're bowing I don't see you don't seem to be listening quite the same but I

[65:19]

If you have a comment on that, I'd like to hear it. Comment number one is that I see what you're trying to do now is to clarify the form. Okay. So again, correctly receiving the forms from another means, so now you're coming to me to receive instruction in a form. Okay. And the correct reception is to clarify what is the form in the various situations. So in the Zendo, we say when you step in, generally speaking, you step in with the foot that's nearest to the doorjamb, right? So you step in with your left foot, right? Is that right? Is that right? And then you take another step or two, depending on whether somebody is tailgating you.

[66:23]

And then you join your palms. This is called joining palms, we call it that. And then you do a bow. And then you put your hands in shashu and go to your seat. And then your cushion is in proper position to get into your seat. And then you do another join your palms and another bow. And that bow is to your place and to your neighbors. Then you turn around and you do another join your palms again and bow again. And that bow is to everybody. Okay? So then outside of the zendo, what do we do? So... If I'm walking around Green Gulch, most of the time, a lot of the time, I'm not carrying anything. And generally speaking, I'm just kind of ready to join my palms and bow to whoever I walk by. However, if the person's carrying something, I might not do that.

[67:26]

Instead, I might do a shashu bow to them, because even if they're carrying something, they might be able just to nod a little bit. But again, I'm a refrigerator, which some people were doing recently up at my house. In that case, I might not bow to them at all. I might just more like try to help them with their refrigerator. So, a very clear situation. In Cloud Hall, it's not so clear. And outside of Cloud Hall, it's also not so clear. So I asked some Japanese monks, outside the Zendo, when you pass each other in the hall, Do you bow to each other? And they said, they talked it over, and they said, yeah, we do. Do you join your palms and do a bow? And they said, yes. If during work period, when you pass each other, when you're working, do you join your palms and gassho?

[68:34]

And they said, they thought about it and talked it over and said, no, we don't. So in the kitchen, when you're moving around, you bow to each other every time you pass, right? So I think that's, so we, but again, this is, we clarify this, and now we're having a community discussion to clarify this. So I would say, let's just say for this intensive, if I can just simply play the role of the precept giver for this intensive, may I? During this intensive, you understand the zendo forms. Outside, when you have your robes on, you know, like your Zendo robes, at that time, when you're not working, and if you're not carrying anything in your hands, I would say, join your palms, and join your palms and bow, at that time. If you're in work clothes, and the other person's in work clothes, but neither one of you are carrying anything, and you're passing each other, and you don't feel like the other person's in a terrible rush, and you're not,

[69:36]

Why don't you do it then too? Is that clear? But if you're carrying something, or they're carrying something, then maybe just like be more sensitive. Maybe a bow wouldn't be appropriate, but maybe just some sense of, you know, I respect you within your heart. Maybe the gassho wouldn't be applied, it wouldn't be required, and it wouldn't be insulting during work period if you don't do it. What about on a day off? You're climbing in the mountains and you pass each other. You're going up the mountain, they're coming down the mountain. You're going up the mountain, they're running down the mountain. You might feel like, well, I think I can stop and bow. I'd like to do that. But if he's running down the mountain, maybe he doesn't want to stop and do that. It might fall. So if he doesn't bow back to me, I'll feel okay about that.

[70:38]

So actually, here, and I do run into people, I usually do bow to them. And they usually bow back to me. If I go into the shop, however, I do not usually bow to the people in the shop. However, if they did bow to me in the shop, I would stop and bow too, unless, again, I was carrying something. I might set the thing down. Like when I saw Lori when she first came, I was carrying something, but since it was such a special occasion of her first arrival at Green Gulch, the first time I saw her, I put down what I had and joined my palms and bowed to her. But the next time I see her if I'm carrying something, I might not, unless I never were going to see her. So there are certain times when you feel moved really moved and do it but I think generally during work try to find some other way to express your appreciation of each other other than that form unless and then if you have empty hands why not why not bow to each other does that seem reasonable for this at least for the intention to try it and if you sense that somebody doesn't want to for some reason

[71:53]

like they're looking really grumpy and like nothing they don't want to look at you guts on that case maybe you could just be really careful because if you bow to them might offend them but in a zendo even if they hate your guts bow to them I mean even if you imagine that they do or even if you hate their guts still do the bow Thank you. That's question number one. The second question is, I don't know if I'm doing the forms correctly or not. And I guess I'm of some of them, but is somebody, I mean, could, is it, is feedback forthcoming? Not necessarily unless you request it.

[72:57]

That's why I say to people, please give me feedback because they don't necessarily know that I want it. I shouldn't say that I want it, know that I'm requesting it. And I do need it, actually. So I request it and a lot of people tell me, well, you say you do, but I don't think people believe you. so that's i keep asking but i understand that some people don't believe i really am asking for it but if i don't ask for it i'm really going to make it harder for people so uh i will not i like a lot of people green gulch have never asked me to give them feedback and i don't because they didn't ask me to and a lot of other people have asked me for feedback and because they have I do say to them sometimes, did you ask for feedback? And then they say, often, yes. Or sometimes they say, so what? But anyway, if they say yes, I say, well, and then I ask.

[74:03]

So I think if you want feedback on the forums, it's good to say to them, could you give me feedback on the forums? And then... And then if they don't give you any, you say, well, a while ago I asked you for feedback. I haven't heard anything from you for a while. And so do you have... I do have some. But I didn't see the opportunity, so thanks for asking again. So, yeah, a lot of people... They ask me, and then they ask me again, and when they ask me again, then somehow something comes up. And not being sure about... Being sure about the forms can actually go fairly well with being fairly clear that I'm clear that this is what I think the form is, but I don't know if anybody agrees with me. So I'm clear that this is what I think it is, so then you go and you talk to, again, the person you feel you're receiving the precepts from, the people you're receiving. Say, this is my understanding of the forms, it's correct. Again, I used to go, I actually, during the practice period at Tatsuhara, I went to Kadagiri Roshi and I said, I said, could I sit in your room while you study?

[75:17]

In Zazen, in your room while you study. And then you can look up from your study of the Shobo Genzo occasionally, just look up and comment on my posture. And he said, okay. So I sat there in his room while he was studying and he'd look up every now and then and say something. And another time I was having a debate with one of my Dharma brothers about how to do the Shashu. And we had disagreement about how to do it. And we came and presented our Shashus to Kadagiri Rishi to ask us, which one of us is right? So he looked at our gaushos and gave us feedback. So it is part of the practice, you know, and when people do prostrations, I give them feedback on it. Like someone, a lot of people have learned that when we bow with a raksu, when we get to a certain point, one way of bowing is to hold the raksu a little bit so that it catches the

[76:27]

between your abdomen and your thighs, and doesn't fall on the ground. And then you can lean forward and lift your hands. And then a lot of people get up, and when they get up, rocks are too, but it isn't necessary to hold it when you get up. So I give somebody instruction like that. But I usually ask them beforehand, would you like feedback on your prostration? And usually, they say yes. If they say no, I say, okay, I don't give it. There's lots of opportunities to do these things when we do these forms together and you ask the person do they want feedback or the person has asked you. And in this way, we get clearer about what the form is. But it doesn't mean we know we're doing it right. It's just we're clear that this is the way we think and that we have received this from somebody else and we've checked it out and we keep checking it out. over the years. And many senior students are still checking out forms.

[77:33]

And that's our practice. It isn't like, okay, I checked them out. That's the end of that. No more of that checking out. We continue to always, and it's in both directions. Thank you. You're welcome. Yes. I want to tell you about something that happened to me around... Okay. May I? Yeah. I asked you for feedback years ago, and you gave me some. And I left the room and I felt terrible. And I found out later by talking to another person that what I really asked you was, do you love me or not? And when you gave me feedback, I heard, you don't love me. And that wasn't what I asked you. I asked you for feedback. And thank you.

[78:35]

You're welcome. That reminds me of a poem. Would you like to hear it? The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. You have to say what you really want. Don't go back to sleep. Everyone's walking back and forth at the threshold where the two worlds meet. Don't go back to sleep. Thank you very much. May our intention equally extend to... Is this recorded now?

[79:44]

Okay. So, as I said earlier, sometimes people think you do these practices, bodhisattva precepts, and then you move on to concentration and wisdom. If you do these bodhisattva precepts, you will become concentrated and you will become wise. These practices include understanding reality. So you practice the precepts and you notice that you think that, you know, are external and you practice with that and practice with that, with these precepts, and you come to understand finally that they're not. So you develop wisdom by practicing these precepts with the afflictive mind of delusion.

[80:40]

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