Abba, Abba, Abba, today is the truth that led us to God's best words. Sometimes I call on people in class and ask them questions or talk to them.

[01:37]

Could you speak up a little bit, please? Sometimes I call on people in class and I guess I initiate an interaction. And so... If you do not want me to do that, please let me know and I'll give it up. You can tell me directly or you can tell Maya and she can tell me. and ask you, you know, stuff like, demonstrate the fourth type of samadhi. If when we are interacting, if you feel that I'm being too gentle or not gentle enough, please help me learn how to be gentle.

[02:59]

I don't really know what level of gentleness is appropriate all the time. Maybe I think I'm being gentle, but you don't think so, or maybe I think I'm not being gentle, and you think I am. So I need your help to understand how to be gentle. And gentle means interacting in a way that isn't too much, that you're not up for, or something like that, that you can't use in a beneficial way. Also, I told some history.

[04:05]

I mean, it wasn't really, it's my story, which since I'm a male, it's his story. Kind of a vision of how Mahayana Buddhism developed and what Mahayana Buddhism was in some sense a response to. But that doesn't mean that currently in the world that, for example, Theravada Buddhism in Southeast Asia or the way Southeast Asian Buddhism is transmitted to the West is the same kind of situation that kind of stimulated the birth of Mahayana in India And it is possible that a Theravadan teacher teaches non-dual samadhi, and it's also possible that a Zen teacher teaches a dualistic approach to samadhi.

[05:18]

And it's even possible that a Zen teacher teaches a dualistic kind of presentation of out of compassion, feeling that that's really what people are begging for. In fact, in introductory instruction at most Zen centers in the West, they do teach following and counting the breath. They don't usually mention that at the introductory instruction that Such practices are a total waste of time. But sometimes, you know, the next lecture they hear, somebody says that. So the fourth samadhi, in a sense, is being willing to be totally devoted to contemplating something that's a total waste of time.

[06:30]

Don't waste time. What about it? Relax with it. Don't grasp it. Listen to it and don't grasp it. So, the Samadhi number two can be practiced without attaching to, without grasping for anything. And then samadhi number two, or developing mental one-pointedness, even in the developing of mental one-pointedness, you can contemplate the practice of developing mental one-pointedness with a sense of non-duality. Pardon? Number two. You can practice number two. Number two is like developing a state, working on developing a state, a state which is typified predominantly, a state which is really like emblematic

[08:06]

of the fact that all minds have a characteristic of samadhi. So all minds have the characteristic of samadhi, but some states of mind are like advertisements. Some states of mind, the samadhi is fully realized. In other words, mental one-pointedness is totally pervading the awareness. In other words, there's a deep realization or settling into the one-pointedness of thought. And the person looks like it, feels like it. In the Samdhi Nirmocana Sutra, I forgot who asked, the Buddha, oh, it's Maitreya. Maitreya, the bodhisattva of love, the next Buddha, asks the Buddha, if somebody's practicing a training attention onto the type of objects which are used in developing mental stabilization,

[09:27]

but the body and mind have not yet become pliant and soft and joyful. Is this the attainment of mental stabilization? He says, no. It's the practice of, it's the training of attention in accord with the attaining of mental stabilization. In other words, mental stabilization is actually when you are that way, when you hold. body and mind are like that, and training onto developing samadhi is the training. When that training is complete, you actually are in that state. Okay? That's number two. And number two has, there's levels in number two in the sense of deeper and deeper realization of this mental one-pointedness. But also, we could include two layers, the training layer and the realization layer in number two. Okay? Does this make sense?

[10:29]

Well, you don't feel and look and act like mental one-pointedness has totally pervaded your body. But you're training at it. And then the other possibility is you're training at it and you've realized it. Now, what I'm saying is that within that number two, you can practice that kind of samadhi You can train in that kind of samadhi. You're not yet in actually that state of fully realized samadhi. You can train in it and simultaneously be practicing number four, training in number four. Realize that samadhi number two and do it while contemplating non-duality. Okay? And just a second. And you can also practice number two dualistically.

[11:36]

Now the way you practice it is you understand that the attainment of samadhi is non-dual and the non-attainment of samadhi is non-dual. You understand that you give up the distinction between attaining the samadhi and not attaining the samadhi while you're training at the samadhi. You give up the distinction between attaining the samadhi and not attaining the samadhi after having realized the samadhi. Then number two is being practiced, and you're in number four simultaneously. And also, of course, number three is included. So if you go to introductory instruction and they say, you know, count your breath, and you go to talk given by some Zen priest, and he says, Zazen's a total waste of time, and you say, great, I'm going to...

[12:39]

and you like totally devote yourself to doing something that you're not going to get anything for, and you're not trying to even get that practice which you don't get anything for, then you'll be practicing perhaps training the mind in samadhi and also doing what is practice, which is to be practicing with body-mind dropped off, which is a total waste of time. OK, so does that make sense? So, practicing body number two, or in the perfect state or whatever, how do you say that one could be practicing in that state and realizing non-duality? You can be realizing non-duality, you can be contemplating non-duality at the same time that you're paying attention to your breath.

[13:47]

Like, for example, you can be standing in a room and suddenly Just be quiet, you know? And then you go, you know, you're breathing, you know? And you actually are meditating on your breath, and you might feel like totally one with your breath at that moment. At the same time, no sense of like gain or loss around that. Joy, maybe, that how wonderful it is to be breathing, how wonderful it is to be one-pointed with your breath, and also no sense of like that you're going to hold on to anything. Then you might just say, I think I'm just going to sit here and breathe for a while. I'm actually going to meditate on that. And you can want to do that and do that with no sense of, I'm doing it. Or that following the breath is any different than not following the breath. Or that breath is different. You can be contemplating non-duality and actually maybe realize it. You even enter into the samadhi of that contemplation of non-duality.

[14:51]

So why do we talk about the samadhi four as something other than that? Other than what? This is like complete absorption with samadhi that includes realizing non-duality, right? Yes. So why do we do what? So how is samadhi two different from samadhi four? Well, in samadhi four you might not be doing any kind of training in samadhi. And actually, in Samadhi 4, there could also be training in Samadhi 4 that hasn't been realized yet. But if you had realized Samadhi 4, you could realize it completely and realize Samadhi number two. So in Samadhi number four, when it's realized, you realize number two. You can also contemplate number four without realizing number two. You can train in number four without realizing number two.

[15:52]

Does that make sense? No? In other words, you can hear the teachings of Mahayana. You can hear the teachings of non-duality. You can hear them and understand them intellectually and yet not be practicing samadhi, not have realized mental one-pointedness fully. Does that make sense? In other words, you're not in a deep state You have concentration as a characteristic of your mind, but you haven't deeply realized that characteristic. You're not deeply concentrated. You hear the teachings, you understand them, and when you understand them, you are transformed. Once you understand intellectually non-duality, you're a different person. Your mind has been changed. But, unless you understand it, and that's a kind of wisdom. When you understand the teaching of non-duality, intellectually, you have what's called wisdom which comes through study and listening. But then the full realization of that teaching comes when you unite that wisdom with samadhi.

[17:05]

Then you have the wisdom that comes, the wisdom on whatever topic it is, this topic's non-duality, the wisdom which is conjoined with samadhi, or the wisdom that comes with samadhi, which comes with meditation. So you could be in this class, teachings of non-duality, understand them, and not be in a state of fully developed samadhi. And you have some understanding, but you would have a deeper understanding if you had accomplished number two. Now, number four includes... The realization of number four includes number two. Because the full realization of four is not just... hearing about it, contemplating it, understanding it intellectually. It's hearing about it, contemplating it, understanding it intellectually, reasoning with it, analyzing it, and then entering into samadhi with it. That's the full realization of number four. Make sense? Okay, just one second.

[18:09]

Okay, Rosie? Is it possible, while in number two, to come to that understanding, the wisdom of the understanding that you're talking about of nonduality, number four? Is it possible for somebody without hearing about it actually to come to it? Yes, it is possible. and if that were the case, you would be a Buddha. Because Buddhas are those who enter into a state of samadhi and realize nonduality without anybody teaching it to them. And so far, only one person in the last 3,000 years has done that. That we know of. On record. All Buddha's disciples so far, have heard the teaching of non-duality and then entered into samadhi with that teaching.

[19:22]

But it would be possible, and Buddha did that. Buddha did not get the teaching of non-duality. And Buddha went into samadhi and saw non-duality. And that was the first, you know, that was the first. And everybody else is Buddha's disciple. So to be a Buddha, you have to be born in a place where... and then discover it. But once you've heard it, just a little bit, like the sixth ancestor walking around in Samadhi in the marketplace of Canton or Guangzhou, walking around the marketplace, hears the teaching of non-duality. Bodhisattva should produce a thought which has no abode. He should produce a mind which doesn't abide in any place. He hears the teaching of non-duality and wakes up. Oh, excuse me, I say he was in samadhi. I don't know if he was in samadhi. He woke up on some level when he heard that teaching.

[20:23]

If he had been in samadhi, it would have been deeper than if he hadn't been. Vivi? Dropping body and mind, not entering samadhi. It's not entering samadhi? It's not entering samadhi. No, it's not. It's just letting go, it's contemplating and realizing nonduality, but then as you enter into samadhi with it, it becomes fully realized. It isn't just a momentary release. It then becomes united with your whole body.

[21:27]

But now, I take it back because if you drop body and mind, you would drop the distinction between subject and object. So then at that moment anyway, you would have realized non-duality. So dropping body and mind really is also entering samadhi. So that's how you enter samadhi. sitting upright, dropping our body and mind, you enter the samādhi. And then you live in that samādhi. Yes? So, when I'm in state number two, will I realize samādhi? Can I at the same time, I mean, if I'm doing something, can I at the same time have some conceptual dualistic thinking going on? Yeah. So number two can be realized, number two was realized by the historical Buddha prior to having into the Four Noble Truths and so on.

[22:43]

So it's possible to fully yet to be top of the line practitioner of Samadhi number two and not hear any teachings of selflessness. Pardon? No, I asked whether I can... You talked about standing in a room and then you aren't fully realized samadhi. Okay. Now I can count my breaths or now I can do this or not. This is dualistic thinking, isn't it? I can't do this, I don't do that. So I decide to count my breaths. This is dualistic thinking. So can I do little things? Well, um, I think you're right. But you can still have the attachment to conceptual thinking. As soon as you come out of the absorption, you slip right back in to dualistic thinking.

[23:47]

But at the moment of attaining full samadhi, the afflictions of dualistic thinking are at bay. So you're not being hassled anymore at that time by the afflictions of dualistic, of self and other being separated. But you still think that way, basically, in every cell of your body. And as soon as you're out of samadhi, out of that state, which arises with the kind of training, you're afflicted again. Does that make sense? So the answer is yes, you can do both. You can be in samadhi and you can also think conceptually or do it statistically. You said actually, you're right, that when you're in samadhi you're not really thinking conceptually. You're actually letting all that drop.

[24:50]

You're not grasping your conceptual thought in samadhi. But your concepts, a lot of your concepts, like the subject and object, are actually separate. Samadhi itself, you still hold those views. but they're latent. And as soon as you come out of samadhi, they reactivate themselves and you start feeling that way and perhaps acting that way. So the ultimate transformation of the person is not just temporarily pushing away grasping of, but actually contemplating dualistic phenomena and seeing that they're illusory. In other words, contemplating the duality of things and actually waking up to that being an illusion and seeing that all things are non-dual. So in that samadhi number two, you really see that subject and object are non-dual. You've actually trained yourself into realizing that they're not. But you still actually, when you start thinking

[25:52]

you still think that they are separate. You don't actually, you still make that distinction and grasp that distinction when you're not conscious at one pointedness. So samadhi is, when fully attained, is a relief from the afflictions. That's why it's pleasant and at ease in samadhi because you're free of the affliction of the other being separate. You're not afraid in the samadhi. You haven't yet transformed your basic belief. But in number three, you transform your basic belief that subject and object are separate. But in number three, the difference between number three is that in number three, there hasn't been yet the distinction, not just, you've given up the distinction between self and other. You're no longer grasping the idea of a... independent self of a person, and therefore not of the other, but you still think there's a difference between nirvana and suffering, between being free and in bondage.

[27:04]

And that's why the goal, number three, is the goal of attaining nirvana. Number four is the goal of attaining perfect compassion. and using nirvana to help beat it. Number four is realizing the identity of here, this side of the shore, and that side of the shore. But number three, number two, is very helpful to realize, of course, three and four. And when you're in number three, you're cool. You're cool. But when you're out of it, you haven't yet transformed your understanding, you still can believe in the independent self, even obtaining number three. And the Buddha was a person who attained number two prior to understanding the illusoriness of the independent self. And he wasn't free. But when he attained understanding of the illusoriness of the independent self and then brought that together with his samadhi,

[28:12]

He became an arhat very fast. And also because of his background, he became a Buddha. Now, it may not be the time to mention it, but it won't take too long for me to mention something about the basic two levels of training in samadhi numbers. The three basic levels of training in samadhi. But I'll do that a little later because there's some questions still on the floor, aren't there? Patty and Catherine and Liz and Rosie. Anybody else? And Jane and Danny. Remind me to do that, would you? That was sort of the new thing I wanted to mention. The training levels or the practice levels of number three, Samadhi number three. Patty? Danny, since you're in the neighborhood. I'm kind of grasping to put this into practice.

[29:22]

It feels very conceptual. And I'm thinking about going back into this endo. And I don't know how to put this into practice much. Which one do you want to put in practice? Number two? Well, that's why I say I have a suggestion. A lot of the suggestions I'm making are practices which can attain number two, number three and number four simultaneously. What does that look like, like physically, like sitting in meditation? Well, it can look like sitting in the meditation hall at your seat. You sit in your seat. You're sitting there, and you're not moving. It could look like that, right? And that's what it may look like. It might look like that whatever comes, there's no grasping of it.

[30:27]

Whatever comes, you don't grasp it. And you don't seek anything other than what's coming. You don't seek Samadhi number two, for example, when you're... Training in Samadhi number two is not to seek Samadhi number two. No, I think that's, myself, that comes down to be the most effective way. No, I just, my big parentheses mention that what some people do is they train students to try to get samadhi, you know. They say, people today are not going to practice not trying to get anything, so I'm going to get them to get samadhi. I'm going to tell them samadhi is really good and I'm going to try to get them to get it. And then they really try to get it, and they try to get it, and they try to get it, and they severely try to get it, and then they collapse. You know? And then they... And then they realize it just came when they stopped trying to get it. They got it when they kind of like made the supreme effort and then kind of went... you know it comes but they but usually they're too busy trying to get it to notice it's coming so when they're totally totally wiped out from trying to there's a moment comes when they don't try to get anything they just just stand there not trying to get anything and there it is it's been there sitting there waiting all the time but you've been so busy trying to get it that you've been insulting it and saying you're not samadhi i'm trying to i'm trying to get samadhi does that make sense

[31:58]

i didn't say it it's not that easy yet so like somebody else said what does samadhi look like well that's sort of what you said what does samadhi look like okay grasping that samadhi having some expectation of what samadhi looks like is antithetical to samadhi giving up your idea of what samadhi looks like is realized but it's for people to go into a meditation hall a samadhi hall and sit there with, you know, and with tremendous expectations about what samadhi looks like, because you've got all these other people, who's in samadhi around here? What does it look like? And then like, oh, oh, there's the Buddha on the altar, yeah, that's probably what it looks like. Well, fine, you know, expect it to look like that, that's fine. Or expect it, no, Buddha's not... Buddha like scratching his ear, or Buddha like going .

[33:05]

Any idea you have of what samadhi is, if you grasp that, that disturbs your mind. Samadhi is to not grasp any of the ideas of what samadhi is or anything else. But when you're practicing samadhi, that's a because that's the one you're most grasping for when you're practicing samadhi. Now, if you don't want to practice samadhi, fine. And if you don't grasp anything in mind, you're going to enter samadhi. You're going to enter samadhi means you're going to let samadhi enter you. You're going to wake up to it. If you just stop grasping for anything. You said you were grasping, so just give up that. And I didn't say it was easy because it's hard to do. It's easy to continue grasping even though it's disturbing. It's easy to continue it because you're very good at it. easy to continue what you're good at. It's hard to do something that you're not good at. It's hard to be a beginner. And actually, it's hard to practice not grasping when you don't even practice it. You just keep grasping.

[34:08]

And the guy says, practice not grasping. Okay, I'm practicing it, and I'm not practicing it. I'm practicing this other thing. I'm grasping. So I'm like totally no good at not grasping samadhi, which would enter Okay? That's the first level of not grasping, is to notice that you're still grasping. So you practice confession. So a lot of people will mostly be practicing confession for quite a while. In other words, I'm grasping, I'm seeking, I'm grasping, I'm seeking, I'm grasping, I'm seeking, I'm grasping. But the more you confess, the more relaxed you get about confession, the closer you get to, again, the same place of just like not grasping anything, and then you enter samadhi. Samadhi is simply when whatever's going on in your mind, there's no grasping of it and no seeking there. That's samadhi. Then you actually have realized non-duality of your mind and object, but you may need a little stimulation of teaching to help you realize what you've actually realized.

[35:11]

So that's how you can practice number two. Now, if you want to talk about the other practices, then we can talk about them, but, you know, but this is how you practice number two in an environment where you're hearing about three and four. And number two is a good thing to practice in the zendo particularly. In class you might want to work on, like, listening. And then you're getting this understanding. If you understand them, then that understanding is in the room with you when you're sitting. And then if you're practicing samadhi, that understanding gets juxtaposed with the samadhi. And before I forget, when you unite wisdom with samadhi, you're also uniting wisdom with compassion, because samadhi is the fifth type of bodhisattva, of the six paramitas. The first five are compassion, and the fifth one is samadhi, or jnana.

[36:18]

whose nature is samadhi. So samadhi is a compassion practice. Realizing samadhi, you realize you're one with all beings. Your mind is one with all beings that you're aware of. So, if you listen to the teachings of nonduality intellectually, then you can bring that intellectual understanding, that wisdom, together with compassion led by the practice of samadhi. All the other compassion practices, hopefully, will be there, too. So, one possible routine would be work on samadhi and meditating. And if you work on it in this way of non-grasping and non-seeking, you will calm down. But also, that's exactly the way you practice also contemplating non-duality, is not grasping and seeking. Don't grasp the ideas and teachings of non-duality. the attainment of non-duality.

[37:23]

Don't seek the attainment of non-duality. So the practice of not grasping and not seeking works to develop tranquility, concentration, and also helps you to realize wisdom. So that one practice you can do and you'll be working on three and four simultaneously. Because actually one, two, and three, and four are always working together simultaneously. In fact, In Buddha's mind, they're all working together all the time. If you can relax in this environment of Buddha activity, you can become totally integrated with it. Okay? Let's see. Now I see Elizabeth. Catherine? Catherine? Yes. This kind of comes up, I think, with this question you're talking about. I understood her question. If there's some level of samadhi that's entered and then you're in a world of activity as opposed to sitting in a zen room,

[38:34]

Is it possible that the expressions that you make, verbally or intellectually, or the activities that you engage in, in a dual way, would still be expressing or coming out of the samadhi rather than having abandoned the samadhi in order to enter the world of activity? Let's say the person has achieved samadhi but they do not yet have understanding of nonduality. Well, I was saying they have understanding, but not stabilization. I thought you said they were in samadhi. Oh, so they're still in samadhi. Well, if they've gotten into samadhi, if they've brought samadhi, if they've united samadhi with the understanding of non-duality, is that the example you want to use? I think so. Well, then the person is able to do number four, and number four is exactly to be able to bring the contemplation of nonduality to every event, so that all the paramitas, including wisdom, are being enacted in each meeting with each event.

[39:50]

Yes, there's stabilization. There's totally settled in practicing non-duality, total samadhi, total wisdom, total compassion, total giving, patience, precepts, enthusiasm. They're all happening at every event in number four. Well, then, somewhere in between... Is there a place of realization of samadhi, non-duality, but it's not there all the time? I mean, isn't there such a place? Sure. So given that place, is it always the samadhi drops off if you come into activity, or is there this place where the samadhis expressed in speech or in action? Well, I would say basically that if the teaching of non-duality, if you're in samadhi with that teaching, okay, then if you weren't in somebody else's eye, if you weren't in samadhi, if you were like totally hysterical, for example.

[41:04]

And you didn't match them. you're totally disturbed, totally seething with all kinds of I don't know what, but you're totally in samadhi about non-duality, then you contemplate non-duality in this seething situation, which is exactly, in some sense, the best place to contemplate non-duality is when you're looking at anti-perfections. To look at a perfection, it's hard to practice the non-duality of the perfection. But when you look at a non-perfection, then you can more easily contemplate this non-perfection and all the afflictions around it are non-dual with the perfection. When you practice that way with non-perfection, then at that moment you're bringing that teaching to bear to this situation.

[42:06]

And then the teaching of non-duality is not separate, is in samadhi. Your understanding is in samadhi with this example of not what practice is supposed to look like. Now, because you have not fully realized this, you have examples of anti-perfections to work with. Now, you've worked with so many anti-perfections in nonduality that there aren't any anti-perfections anymore. It's okay because you've had so many examples that you work with, so it's okay. But then you see it all over the world, so it doesn't make much difference. Do you have to be a number two ? Most people would have to have some experience of number two in order to be able to be settled and one-pointed about contemplating non-duality when they're overwhelmed

[43:15]

by their experience. So again, you tell me that if they practice just like not grasping and not seeking, they sometimes feel overwhelmed, just all this stuff just comes. So part of the Bodhisattva Samadhi is about how to like continue to practice when the big white wave comes. in my case. Everybody's got this thing which they think, if that comes, how will I be able to practice? For some other people it's like, if the divine god or goddess comes, how will I practice? I know I'm just totally going to freak out if that comes up. So if you just let it happen, You just think, I'll just be overwhelmed. That's right, you will be overwhelmed and samadhi will take over. But if you resist it, then the samadhi still takes over, but you've kind of exiled yourself from this great meeting, from this great overwhelm.

[44:19]

So then people say, when they hear about a teaching that doesn't...

[44:26]

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