I vow to chase the truth of the Tathagata's words. We had technical difficulties this morning. Sorry to keep you waiting. Can you hear me well? Okay. Yesterday's meeting was named The Assembly. And I'd like to remind us that we are in an assembly and that the assembly is a great awakening. And that we continue in this assembly to study the Buddha Dharma.

[01:02]

Today's title I would like to, maybe the title would be Warnings or Admonitions. And the subtitle is Haku and Zenji's History with the Lotus Sutra. one of the people in this assembly said a few months ago that more and more he he feels that the buddha dharma should be swallowed whole and i holy heartedly

[02:10]

agree with him. The Buddha Dharma should be chewed, should be chewed thoroughly. And in chewing it thoroughly, we will taste its truth. Also yesterday, Patrick said something like, Maybe I want to worship the Lotus Sutra, but he didn't feel quite ready to do so. I think he said that he does worship or venerate the Heart Sutra. And I thought of the great ancestor, the founder of the so-called Soto Zen in China, Dongshan, that when he was a child listening to the Heart Sutra, he asked his teacher a question about it.

[03:32]

his understanding was different from the Heart Sutras and he questioned the Guru. So there I see the example of devotion to the teaching includes questioning it and acknowledging and honoring we feel disagreement. Those who are most devoted to the teaching are most able to question it. So, we're wondering what it is, and I'm encouraging us to chew it. The compound for digestion is made of two characters and I think one of them is to destroy and the other is transform.

[04:51]

So chew and transform is how we make the teaching digestible. And also I wanted to bring up a story about the sixth ancestor of Zen who could not read Chinese writing. He couldn't read the characters. And he once had a meeting with a monk named Fada. And Fada they used the word boasted, that he chanted the Lotus Sutra 3,000 times. And he met with the ancestor and he

[06:03]

said a thing or two, and the ancestors said, even if you've chanted the Lotus Sutra 10,000 times, if you don't understand, you won't even understand your own mistakes. And the monk humbly said, well, please teach me how to study. And ancestors said, when in delusion, turned by the Lotus Sutra. In awakening, turn the Lotus Sutra. That's often translated as, when you're deluded, the Lotus Sutra turns you.

[07:09]

When you're awakened, you turn the Lotus Sutra. But I think the original Chinese doesn't have those yus in it. It just says, deluded, turned by the sutra. awakened, turned the sutra, turned the dharma flower. And this story is brought up in an essay written by our ancestor Dogen. And the name of the essay is Dharma Flower Turns Dharma Flowers. Dharma flower turns.

[08:13]

That's the situation of delusion. Turned Dharma flower, that's the situation of awakening. But the title, the turning, overlaps. So the turn, no, Dharma flower turns joins with turned Dharma flower. The dharma flower meets the dharma flower in the turning. The turning is at the center. And at the center, dharma flower turning, delusion, meets flower awakening. At the turning, awakening and delusion meet. In the teaching, dharma flower turns dharma flower. This is the that Dogen Zenji offered in commenting on how to study the Lotus Sutra.

[09:29]

I remember one time Suzuki said, Zen is the key. unlock the Buddha Dharma. Today I bring up this turning as Zen. Zen is the turning where Dharma flower turns and the dharma flower is turned. That meeting is the place where the sutra or the great sutras are unlocked. Most of us, when we come to study, we might be inclined to think that the awakened is better than delusion.

[10:36]

So it would be better to turn the Lotus Sutra than be turned by it. But in this teaching, in this way of studying, delusion is better than awakening, and awakening is not better than delusion. They meet and turn on each other. Similarly, and also turned, The character that I translated now as turned also means change. So when the Lotus Sutra changes you, or in delusion the Lotus Sutra changes us, in awakening we change the Lotus.

[11:43]

So it's not just that now we're going to change the Lotus Sutra in this Lotus assembly. The Lotus Sutra is going to change us. We are being changed by the Sutra and we are changing the Sutra. We are revolutionizing the Mahayana Sutra and the Mahayana Sutra is revolutionizing us. Before this assembly got going, the audio on my computer Well, so the abbess of Green College brought over and gave me her computer. So I'm now using her computer. And at that time, when we were trying to get the computers to work, in delusion, the situation turned us.

[12:43]

And in awakening, we turned the situation. And it was very dynamic with all you waiting. Thoughts of maybe we're not going to be able to have a meeting turned us. And we turned those thoughts. This is the relevance of this teaching for this morning. Also, Dogen Zenji wrote and I guess spoke another essay called Genjo Koan, Actualizing the Fundamental Point, or Reality Right Now. And in that essay, he wrote something which we translate something like this. To practice and confirm

[13:51]

all things, all phenomena, while carrying a self is delusion. For all things to come and practice the self is awakening. In other words, to turn all things is delusion, and to be turned by all things is awakening. And this reverses what the sixth ancestor said. The reversal gets reversed. And here too, we might think, oh, it's better to be awake, better to have all things come forward and confirm us. That's better than us to go forward and confirm all things. But again, those two, confirming all things and being confirmed from all things, they both meet at the self.

[15:02]

One's not better than the other. Although many people think that enlightenment's better than delusion. And that's another delusion, which is just as good as enlightenment, and just as bad as enlightenment. Also, as I said yesterday, I was reading a letter a translation of a letter which Hakuin wrote to his leading disciple talking about the pain and sadness and disappointment and discouragement he was feeling in the process of setting up a series of lectures on the Lotus Sutra.

[16:15]

This This very important Bodhisattva is planning, with the support of many people, to give a series of talks at a wonderful monastery in the mountains of Japan, and he seems to be very upset. He seems so human, looking almost deluded. really surprising me how upset he was, and this is when he's 70, after many awakenings. So now I was thinking of telling you some history of Hakuin's relationship with the Lotus Sutra.

[17:29]

Are you ready for that? Well, first of all, my history with Haku and Zenji and his history. So, in a way, I never met him in person, you could say, because he died hundreds of years before I was born. And yet, stories about him deeply inspired me. Inspired me to believe he was portrayed in the stories. And the story which many of you heard me say over and over is a story about where he was accused of abusing someone sexually, of having sex with a young girl and her becoming pregnant.

[18:57]

He was accused of that and he was strongly criticized. And when he was strongly criticized, he responded calmly and compassionately. Also probably quite uncomfortable being attacked that way. Then later, the girl told the truth that he was not a person who she had sex with. He was praised and apologized to. And again, he responded calmly and compassionately. And when I heard that story, I thought, this is the way I would like to live. And at that time, all I knew was the word Hakuin.

[20:04]

I didn't know anything about his role in the history of Japanese Zen tradition. Then over the years I heard, and I don't know which I heard first, I heard that his great awakening was while reading the Lotus Sutra. And then again later, about his difficulties and disappointments with the Lotus Sutra. Again, being really, Hakuin really was a human being. And when he was, I guess, seven or eight years old, his mother brought him to a Zen temple. Take away Zen.

[21:07]

Brought him to a temple. I don't know what school it was. And the priest at the temple was giving talks on... ...of hell. from the great Tiantai teacher, Jiri. And listening to the talks, the young, the boy and the other people in the audience were, it was like chills running up their spines and their hair stood on end. in these depictions of hell. And he can be deeply disturbed by this specter of hell. One day he was in the bath with his mother and she asked for the water to be heated.

[22:18]

And as the water started to heat up and the tub started to shake from the heating, it reminded him of scenes he heard about in hell. And he screamed so loud that people throughout the neighborhood heard him. He was tormented with fear and anxiety. And he did everything in his power to cope with this fear of hell. And around 15 years old, asked his parents to let him leave home and go live in a monastery, go live in a temple.

[23:26]

They resisted, and he kept asking and kept asking, and finally they let him go and enter training in a Zen temple. And he read scriptures day and night and studied Confucianism And he still was terrified and totally depressed. And then he heard about the Lotus Sutra, how great it was. And so he picked it up and started reading it. And aside from a few teachings that he thought were of some merit, basically it was not helpful and again he was totally discouraged and disappointed then he picked it up again when he was that was when he was 16. he picked it up again when he was 19 and read it

[24:44]

and became even more depressed and discouraged. But he kept practicing and at 22, he had a great personal awakening. Wonderful things happened and he felt some relief from his anxiety. And then again, he experienced a personal awakening and deeper relief. And then again, when he was 24, he had an even more profound awakening, personal awakening. And in his great relief, he became, in his greater awakening, very, very proud. and arrogant.

[25:53]

This is his report. And in his great awakening and his great arrogance, somehow he met a teacher who turned him, who turned his great awakening and showed him his great delusion. And he started to enter into turning the Lotus Sutra, turning the Dharma flower, turning whatever the world is for you now. And being turned by the Lotus Sutra, being turned by whatever the world is for you now, he really finally started to practice Lotus Sutra.

[27:01]

And this went on, I guess, And I don't know how many more awakenings he had in the process, but when he was 32, he had yet found awakening. And then again, his practice, and now he becomes a teacher, goes on. And then when he was 41... he had his final and complete awakening. And what he awoke to was that awakening is actually being taught and teaching others. His awakening was no longer personal. All these personal awakenings he had

[28:12]

as wonderful as they were, he now saw that they weren't really at the center of the process of the Lotus Sutra. At the center is being taught by all things and teaching all things. Teaching is the realization of our nature. it is becoming Buddha. Now, when I reflect on all this, looking at the influence of Hakuen Zenji, from the time he lived on, one might say he was the most influential teacher on Rinzai Zen practice in Japan.

[29:18]

But it looks to me like the main, the predominant influence he had was to encourage people to endeavor to have progress even though his final awakening was being taught by and teaching others was the awakening. In other words, it is not personal. There is personal awakening, but great awakening is not personal or impersonal. It is personal and other. It is self and other practicing together, turning each other, So in this great assembly, we have the opportunity to actually embody realizing who we are by teaching and being taught by others, by listening and being listened to by others.

[30:37]

To extend this practice into every aspect of our life, Okay, that is, I think, something. And I also wanted to say, which is part of the warning, that many people find the Lotus Sutra to be outrageous. Many people become outraged reading and hearing about it. Many people find the Lotus Sutra to be strange, to be bizarre, to be disturbing of what's happening as we study.

[31:42]

Our whole life will be included. And I often want to remind people of the origins of the word weird. The Lotus Sutra is often seen as . And the root of that word, weird, is destiny. It's the Germanic rendition of the fates, fortune. The Lotus Sutra is part of our fate. We can't avoid it. It's in our life. And it's so strange and weird that it is.

[32:45]

Now I, again, invite the – oh, I also wanted to mention before I forget to tell you that I am in quarantine at Green College. which means I cannot go into indoors public spaces. I'm indoors now, but I can't go into the Zendo because I was potentially exposed because my dear spouse went to see her mother who died just before Mel Weitzman, where she died. So, yeah, so I was hoping to be in the Zendo during this intensive, but it's going to be a while before I can enter the Zendo.

[33:52]

And we may be doing some outdoor ceremonies, which I can attend. I can be with people. I want you to know that I'm in quarantine. And that limits where I can move at this temple, where I can be. Also, I just wanted to mention that yesterday was the 46th birthday of former abbess Linda Ruth Cutts, Agent Roshi, who had her 46th ordination anniversary yesterday. And also she offered a session of copying the Lotus Sutra in the evening on the West Coast. And I think maybe Brendan can or at Green Gorge, Jiryu can

[35:03]

organize access to that copying meeting, maybe on Wednesday night in the evening at about 7.30, if you'd like to join. Doga Zenji said, lifetime, I recommend you make a copy, a handwritten copy that didn't have Xerox machines. at that time, make a handwritten copy of the Lotus Sutra. So some people now, during this intensive and before, are writing Lotus Sutra. And of course, while writing it out, we have the opportunity to teach and be taught by others. We have the opportunity to teach the and be taught by the Lotus Sutra and teach the Lotus Sutra to other people, but also we can teach the Sutra itself.

[36:09]

Again, let's change the Sutra because we want to protect and uphold it and embrace it. Let's change it without moving a particle of dust. Great Assembly, I now call upon you to make your offerings today. Make your offerings. To the Great Assembly. Thank you. I would like to take a moment just to review the raise hand function in case you're just joining us today. So if you're on a Windows or Mac computer, click on the reactions button. and participants button will be used on older versions of Zoom. Click the raise hand icon or button to indicate you're ready to share. And I will announce your name and you'll receive a message asking you to unmute your microphone.

[37:16]

And that's your cue to speak. And please remember to click on and mute yourself when you're finished speaking. You may make repeated offerings during the intensive, but we will try to have people who have not already been called upon in the intensive go first. We would especially like to encourage those of you who did not get a chance yesterday to make an offering to come forward. About 13 people for that. Thank you. Greg Elliot has the first question. Hi, Reb and everybody. Hello, Greg. Um, so I, uh, am doing what I typically do. I'm doing like the intellectual equivalent of eating the ice icing before the cake, which is, so I'm, I'm not reading the sutra.

[38:17]

I went and I'm reading from this something called visions of awakening space and time. Dogen in the Lotus Sutra by Taigen Dan Layton. It was shared in the group. And so I was reading parts of that, and shoot, I lost my place. So I had a question, because you were just talking about Hakuin, I think, right? Yes. And something that he says at the beginning of this book that I really liked, he said that both Nichiren and Hakuin... Let's see. They talk about the nature of the earth or ground and that for them, this world is the ground of awakening, which I just love. But at the same time, it also seems like the teaching is that this world is sort of the source of all, I mean, it's everything we see or think that we see and perceive and all that is delusion.

[39:31]

Like, we don't see it correctly somehow. And so I was just trying to put those two things together. But maybe it's just that by interacting constantly with all this weird stuff in the world, that's how we, little by little, get rid of our delusion. Is that the idea? No, that's not the idea. You don't get rid of the delusion. Like for example, Hakuin didn't get rid of his delusion. And also the teachings of the Lotus Sutra that we can see and read are the world. It's by studying delusion, you know, and we study delusion, which is how to study the world in the process of opening up the provisional version of reality, the temporary, the expedient, which is delusion.

[41:00]

the ultimate truth is revealed. But we don't get rid of the delusion and then get the real. It's by taking care of and respectfully opening up delusion, we discover that awakening is right there. How's that, Elliot? Thank you. Our next question or offering is from Gayatri. Hello, Reb and everyone here. It's such a wonderful honor to be here and to learn with you all. know anything about the Lotus Sutra when I signed up for this intensive.

[42:05]

And I think I'm glad I didn't know anything about it. You know, like they say, beginner's mind, I had absolutely no idea about any of these warnings and how difficult it was and how weird it is and how, you know, there was all, you know, Patrick was saying how It's an extravagant text and so on and so forth. So I'm glad I didn't know anything about it. I had no preconceived ideas about it. Maybe I wouldn't have signed up if I had heard all these warnings earlier. But yesterday, Reb, when you were turning it over, the image that came to my mind was of like a great big wok, like a cooking wok. And all these different ingredients like, you know, salt and vegetables and spices and, you know, I don't know, sauces and so on. And, you know, getting cooked, somebody's turning over the ingredients to make something. And so it's this image of being, I guess, transformed and transmuted by each other and the sharing and the interchange of ideas, the sutra itself.

[43:21]

And so when I was thinking about, well, what are the ingredients in this big walk? It's, I guess, each one of us and all the conditionings we bring and all our experiences and everything. And then the sutra kind of rubs against those. And we're getting cooked in a way. So each, like the way you were talking about turning everything over. I don't know, the image I had was like a cooking image. So I just wanted to offer that because it is transforming every other ingredient, I guess. I don't know. So I just wanted to just offer that as a visual. I mean, it was just something that I thought about and I thought I would just share. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Gayatri. And by the way, the person who is in charge of our meditation hall, her last name is Gayatri.

[44:32]

Well, she happens to be my aunt. I'm her niece. So my sisters, actually. Well, I think your aunt would be proud of what you just said, because what you just said was, again, your turning of the Lotus Sutra. Your image is totally appropriate. And each one of us is an ingredient. in this nourishing environment of the assembly, and each of us is transforming each of us, and also the trees and the earth, and the animals, and last night we had skunks here at Green Gulch. All beings are in this assembly, really. All those mythical beings that are pointed out in the Lotus Sutra are just a gesture towards unlimited life.

[45:37]

And the form of life is not included in this assembly of the Lotus Sutra. And we're all cooking together. And how can we promote and respect all the ingredients? We can watch now to see if the salt... the rice or the rice doesn't respect the salt and if so that lack of respect is another ingredient everything about all of us is in this pot together you get a very good very good beginner's view of this study thank you I'm ready to get cooked thank you I'm ready to get cooked by you. You did cook me. I'm a new person.

[46:41]

We have an offering from Jerome Friedman. About 40 years ago, I heard my first Dharma talk at Green Gulch, first ever, and you were the speaker, and you confused me so much, I didn't know what to do. So I remember reading about how he wrote something about the mirror bright, And I'm wondering if you could recount the story of how Wei Ning became the Sixth Patriarch. I always liked that story for some reason. I thought it would be good to review it here because it relates to the transmission of the Dharma.

[47:50]

Thank you. Thank you, Jerome. So, Hui Nung, the sixth ancestor, who taught Fada about how to study the Lotus Sutra, by turning it and being turned simultaneously, when he was about 24 years old, he was in the of a teacher named Hung Ren, who is also called the fifth ancestor. And the fifth ancestor announced that he was going to . And one of the people in the monastery would become his sole successor. And he recommended everybody to write a poem to express their understanding of the Buddha Dharma.

[48:58]

As the story goes, everyone thought that the head monk, Shenshu, would write the best poems, and nobody even tried. shun shu thought everybody probably thinks that i will write the best poem and so i probably should write one and he wrote it and put it on a pillar and uh he didn't sign it sixth ancestor saw the fifth answer she saw and knew who wrote it and said everybody should study this this is really good And the young monk, not even monk, the young layman who was working in the rice pounding area saw the poem. So he asked someone to read it to him and they read it to him and he thought, oh, that understanding is not mature.

[50:08]

And the person who read it to him says, how dare you? And Sixth ancestor said, sorry. And the person said, well, why don't you write a poem? So he dictated the poem. The person wrote it and put it on another pillar. And the fifth ancestor saw that new poem and realized who wrote it. And secretly he invited the workman. Workman Liu was his name at that time. He wasn't yet Hui Nung. And he invited this workman who wasn't even ordained yet to come to his room at midnight. And he taught him the essentials of that night. And Hui Nong became his successor. And the fifth ancestor said, but now that you have received the Dharma, you should go hide because it's not safe for you yet to be known.

[51:16]

as my successor. And so then Huai Nung did go and he hid for many years until the time was right and he was mature enough to withstand the responsibility of being the fifth ancestor's successor. Any more details, which are lots of fun, but for now, how's that, Jerome? Oh, that sounds great. I always loved that story. How's Taya? Taya went to school with my daughters. Oh, Taya has become, like your daughter, a wonderful, with wonderful children. She's a great woman in the world. I am so inspired by her and love her so much. And I hope your daughters, do you have daughters or sons that were her friends? I have two daughters and a son.

[52:19]

One is a very prominent yoga teacher in San Francisco, and the other lives in Barcelona with an Italian husband, and my son lives in Fairfax. Wonderful. It's really great. Great to see you again. I'll see you every day now. Our next offering is from Luca Valentino. Thank you for doing this. Years ago, I tried to read the Lotus Sutra, as everybody has been saying. that has been so difficult and it seemed to be really quite bizarre. And I tried to read it, got very far.

[53:21]

And then I took your class last time at Green Gulch, long time ago, and got thoroughly confused. And I really didn't like it. And I kept on looking. Dogen and Hakkelen, and why were they so enthralled by this chaotic, self-righteous, awful piece of writing? And I said, I don't understand it. Things are extraordinary. I'm missing something. And I said, if I'm missing something, then I have to approach it differently. And that sense of approaching it differently was, I don't know. I don't understand. I think I was approaching it with, oh, this is good and that's not good.

[54:27]

And I like this and I don't like that. And that was approaching it with knowing. But at this point is saying, all right, fine. Approach it differently with not knowing. not understanding and allow whatever's happening to allow it to happen without creating some sort of judgment on it. And that process allowed me to enter it, but not . And it was that entering without understanding that allowed it to become Larger, more dynamic, and as Gayatri was saying, this big walk. And I was with a friend the other day about Dharma, Dharma writings, and he said, it's really like a path.

[55:32]

Don't try and understand it. Just immerse yourself in it. You won't be able to. the water is doing and where the water is. You won't be able to pick it out, but it's doing something and it's washing you all around. You won't be able to figure out the water. Allow yourself to sit within the teaching if you were sitting within a bath. And so that was very liberating. And I just want to offer that as my entry into this wondrous Dharma. Thank you, Luca, for your offering of how to enter this wondrous Dharma, this weird Dharma. And one slight adjustment or offering I would make back to you

[56:39]

I think you said maybe enter by unknowing, but also enter the unknowing itself. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It's from Yuki Karen Mueller. Good morning. Morning. I also wanted to offer something similar to what Luca just said, which was a story about entering into this sutra for myself. Some years ago, you suggested that I read the Lotus Sutra, and I started reading it, and I found it very disturbing. And with your kind encouragement, back to it a few times and got different translations and eventually decided to try copying it to see if that would help me reconcile myself with it.

[57:52]

And in the process of copying it, I kind of realized that one of the things that was deeply disturbing to me what I felt was the misogyny that all of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and many of the important people, you know, humans, all of the important humans were described as male. And I felt like that actually hurt me. And then as I was copying it, I could shift that. I could make them male. It was up to me. It was only language. And, um, so I tried it and it felt, I felt better. I, you know, to you and you, you didn't seem to think it was a bad idea, but I think what happened for me was initially when I was reading the sutra, it was like I was here and it was talking to me, but I was just feeling injured by the, by the talking.

[58:58]

And when I started to it was like it was talking to me and I was talking back respectfully. And I found that very relaxing and helpful. And I just wanted to offer that story. Thank you so much for that offering. I think that... That's where it's at, is to make a copy or become a copy. And then what you're copying can become a copy of you. is to realize that we're doing the same thing.

[60:05]

and liberate both sides. And I think that's what happened for you. And I hope you continue applying that same method to everything else. Sarah Norris has an offering. Thank you very much. Reb, I was drawn to reading the Lotus Sutra, partly remembering some teachings you gave about lotus flowers and the nature of the way they grow down. The root system goes down into the mud and the darkness.

[61:10]

of each individual flower's root system. And this morning, when you were talking about digestion, reminded me again of this process of receiving and also of separating out what is waste and what is nourishment. I'm also remembering a talk you gave And conflict can be productive and it can be destructive. And that a position of certainty was perhaps the root of evil. And so I'm thinking of these things in terms of this moment in my life and in our country. conversations and conflicts that I've had and this notion of receiving the teaching of being turned and of turning.

[62:26]

And what happens in that point between being turned and turning? And these are my questions. I pray to take care of those questions. What's happening at the place of turning and being turned? what's happening in the life of teaching and being taught by everything. May I say one more thing?

[63:34]

Yes. I think... I noticed for myself that I'm trying to be careful about certainty, about taking a position as part of turning. It's very easy. I find that very easy to sort of say, okay, I've heard and I've listened. Now I know. And so now I'm going to, I find that very tempting. Certainty is very hard to grasp. It may feel... Certainty may be temporarily relieving or calming or enlivening. And so again, certainty...

[64:38]

can be met with respect. You can honor this feeling of certainty. And even worship it. But then edit it. Turn it. Don't push it away, even though it's tempting. Grasping it, of course, is very unhealthy. But even if you're grasping it, then again, Be respectful of the grasping of the certainty. Certainty may come, certainty may go. Each moment of certainty is to teach it and be taught by it. And in that process, you won't hold onto it and then certainty won't hurt anybody. But if you don't question it respectfully, it can be quite harmful. which again, we witness so much of people who are certain, who grasp it.

[65:43]

And we sometimes are the people who are grasping it. But again, question our grasping of it. Oh, did I just grasp that certainty? Oh, I think I did. I'm sorry. So when I look for the energy of turning, It sounds like asserting something. And if it's not something of certainty, it's really interesting. What is the energy of assertion, of turning? Again, one... The way of asserting is assert as a gift, not assert to manipulate.

[66:48]

Turn as a gift, not to get something turned. Thank you. We'll hear an offering from Trey. We see a dog, Trey. Trey, it looks like you muted after you asked this important question. Oh, hi. Here I am. This dog is Buck. I'm Trey behind here. I bring him here as kind of an offering to the Great Assembly as well. Thank you.

[67:49]

He's guided me through hell and back. So I'm working on this koan of does a dog have Buddha nature? So I'd like to project as much Buddha nature onto him just for the service he's provided me and just for everyone. But it's through this journey to hell and back that I've been through that I found ourselves in a state of being, if you like, of being in a dream, being in a dream as a dream character, but as a being the dreamer and the dream itself, there's that feeling there. Uh, so that's what it kind of reminds me of, of this wheel turning up being all three aspects. Um, but you know, on a, on a side note, um, I wanted to say how much of an honor it feels like, uh, to be here you know it's like i've heard this sutra i've seen transmitted in beats bits and pieces just when uh people are dying people are being born you know there's little bits and pieces of it in there but it's uh it's very rare i think i forget my kalpas but you know i think it's a lot of them that uh were able to gather and talk about something like this you know uh kind of have this back and forth interaction i've heard uh

[69:19]

it one way, but it's very rare that I get to, you know, interact with you and have this one way, two way, three way transmission, you know, if you will. But I don't know, like you said yesterday, there's that feeling of like we've been here before, you know, like I've never met you, I've never heard you, but, you know, it's like this great assembly hasn't has been called here before. So here we all are. And I don't know, it just feels like an honor to hear it from you as the dream character, Reb, you know, to preach this and to have it come forth again. And I guess my... question is like i see it in terms of like kind of life and death and that great realization is you know for me it's just even amongst all this feeling of life i feel there's it's like oh i'm dying you know so it feels like uh

[70:25]

You know, that's something I can't are not able to speak with with my elders just because, you know, they're kind of in that suffering, too. So it's not something out in the open. But, you know, I don't know. The first or last time I'll be able to talk with you. So I was wondering, you know, just what that feeling is like for you just to. what is before you know you know you pass on and go on into complete enlightenment um what's that feeling like of just kind of like a whatever comes to mind and what that feeling of like is to realize you know fully sit and realize that oh i'm dying you know um like what's it like you know i think about it but i don't know how often i kind of just think about it and not just sit there and kind of fully realize that. Many times a day the messenger comes that I'm dying.

[71:42]

Many times a day, the messenger comes. Just a few more years, and they're going by so fast. The messenger comes and says, what a precious opportunity this moment is. This moment. Thank you for reminding me. Death messenger. Thank you. Thank you, messenger. And what comes to my mind is that angels may be understood as messengers. death angels, death bodhisattvas.

[72:48]

And again, that dharma of death, don't swallow it whole, chew it. How wonderful, what a great taste, if chewed well. When I first started eating brown rice, I was really surprised by all the tastes that come with it when you chew it carefully. I was particularly surprised by peanut butter coming as I was chewing the brown rice. And as we chew dying, we get all kinds of flavors of life. Yes, we have an offering from Sandra McCann.

[74:05]

Good morning. Thank you. You're welcome. Rev, earlier you said something of enlightenment is better than delusion, which is delusion, which is just as good as enlightenment and just as bad as enlightenment. When I heard those words, just as bad as enlightenment, my initial reaction was shock. And then I wondered, what do mean just as bad as enlightenment. And then I thought, I wonder if it's that the concept of enlightenment is bad. So I was wondering if you would please comment on that. Thank you. Yeah, so If delusion's bad, if we're into the badness of delusion, then how about being into the badness of awakening?

[75:18]

It's not that delusion's bad, it's that it's harmful to grasp it. And it's not that awakening's bad, it's that it's harmful to grasp it. And some people might say, well, it's even worse to grasp awakening than to grasp delusion. But I don't know. I think grasping either one is harmful to life. It distracts us from being present. But being distracted is another thing that's just as good as awakening in terms of respecting it and not grasping it. So when I say that something is just as bad as another thing, it doesn't mean I'm saying it's bad. I'm just saying it's just as bad. Okay. Really, nothing's really bad or really good. Everything's pivoting between the two. And if we respect everything, we will discover that reality and we will taste the dharma.

[76:29]

Thank you. And when we taste the Dharma, other beings are included. Sandra. There is an offering from Samir. Hello, Rep. Hello. Reb, could you explain or tell me what does it mean when Hakuin Zenji says, instruction to the assembly at the opening of a meeting on the Lotus Sutra, He starts with, anyone who seeks to master the Buddha's way must begin by attaining a Kensho of total clarity.

[77:39]

Could you hear me? I could. I thought you said... Or shall I say it in... Let me say. I thought you said that Hakuin Zenji said anyone who wants to understand the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha Dharma, has to attain Kensho of great clarity, something like that? Just beginning must start by attaining a year. must begin by attaining khencho. Khencho. Which means must start by beginning, must begin by seeing. Khencho means seeing. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm suggesting now is that seeing nature means seeing We start by observing how we are teaching others and being taught by others.

[79:02]

Our nature is that we're turning others and others are turning us. That's our nature. Kensho means to see that nature of how others and we turn others. how others create us and we create others, how we include others and they include us. That is our nature. So if we want to understand the Dharma, study that nature. Start with that. And not just start yet, but continue with that. Continue with the studying of our nature. And then you can study sutras, too, in that same mode of study. That's what I think, for starters, about understanding Hakuin Zenji. So expecting awakening and practicing for the purpose to get awakening...

[80:19]

It's a wrong way, because we don't talk about awakening in the same way in Rinzai than in Soto. There is a difference, as I understand, with my limited understanding. There is a difference, however, the two schools the nature of those schools, the nature of Rinzai and Soto is the same. That the Rinzai is teaching the Soto and learning from the Soto. You're different from me, but you're teaching me and I'm learning from you and I'm teaching you and you're learning from me. That's the relationship between our, that's the nature of our difference. of our relationship. And the same with Rinzai and Soto.

[81:23]

They are in this intimate relationship and they do sound different and they're spelled differently too. I have difficulties with something. We are all those this Sangha attending a retreat and you are the teacher. And the only thing I can offer is to practicing Zazen, feel respect for all those people practicing around the world together. But as I understand, the teaching is coming from you. It's coming from the teacher. It's coming from the Roshi. It's coming from the one who has something to say.

[82:24]

I really don't feel like I have something to say. I have nothing to say. Yeah, I can talk about my life, but I don't think it's appropriate and it's necessary to do that. Just text of practicing. Yeah. Can you give me some feedback, please? Yes, I can give you feedback. Did you see the video? Sorry? I just said, yes, I can give you feedback. That was feedback. Did you see it? I heard that you are willing to give me feedback. Yeah, and that's feedback, right? So you give me feedback. So you repeat what I'm saying. You say I give you feedback.

[83:25]

No, I just said... You didn't say it. I said, I'm willing to give you feedback. And I just wondered if you noticed that that was feedback. Yes. Okay, so now I'm going to give you some more. Do you see that I'm giving you more now? If it's okay, I don't want to take the time. We have plenty of people who want to ask you things. So if you have time, yes, please. What I'm saying is that you said what you can offer I think part of what you said you could offer is Zen practice and offer respect of everybody. Yeah. And I also can, I can try to offer my respect of everybody in this assembly. So I, in that way, I'm making a similar offering to you. And, and I say that to everybody and, can you respect everybody in this assembly?

[84:27]

Whenever anybody makes an offering, can you respect their offering? And I want to do that with each person and I want to watch each person or do I think that when this person's speaking, that's a more important offering than that person? So in that way, I kind of, I know that we set it up that I'm supposed, I'm so-called the leader of this intensive. I accept that that view is there. There is saying that he's in the pot, he's in the bowl with everybody. And he wants to say, let's do this together. Let's not make the teacher something separate from the assembly. Let's realize that the real teacher, even though maybe I said it first, now that I said it, you can take care of that too.

[85:30]

You can remember that the real teaching is not you or me. You're not the teacher. I'm not the teacher, really. It turns being the teacher, but really the teacher is the whole assembly. It's what we're doing together here. That's really what the Buddha is. And also, what the assembly is, is the awakening, is the teacher. What this assembly is the teacher. Person in the assembly is saying that. So you are part of this teaching. You are part of the teacher. And the teacher is part of you. Or you're all of the teacher with everybody else, and the whole teacher is you. My feedback. Thank you. I will... chew this. Thank you.

[86:31]

It's correct to say I will chew this during all this night and I will come back to you and to the assembly tomorrow. Thank you. We have an offering from Kurt. Hello, Rad. Good morning, Kurt. To see you and to see everyone. It blows my mind that this is all around the world. This is fantastic. What a sangha. I have an offering to share. And it had to do from yesterday. Just... my reverie and reflections from yesterday, I had something come up, which is an old friend of mine called fear.

[87:33]

And it's interesting because me being in grammar school and standing in front of the class and sharing things, the old fear came up again of You know, what are people going to think of me? You know, am I going to look foolish and all of that by speaking? So I offer this to the Sangha because one of the, I guess, outgrowths of observing that, it came to me that having a voice is actually life. you know, actual life to the sutra as we talk about it. And the other thing that struck me was that it takes great to be able to look at all of that and

[88:47]

Just, I guess, watch it more than anything. And like in science, they say in relativity that if you look at something, it changes its position. And I find that that's very similar to what I'm seeing here. So I wanted to offer my voice to the Sangha. is that other voices can be made as well to keep the sutra alive and to keep our practice alive as well. Thank you so much. Yes, I... ...offering, and what I heard Kurt say was that your offerings, the offering of each one of you, keeps the sutra alive.

[89:55]

And it may take considerable courage for you to make your offering. And as you make your offering, observing what you're saying and observing Perhaps some fear you feel in observing your courage is also part of your offering. Be aware of your fear in making an offering. As you go before the Great Assembly and make your offering, to be aware of that clarifies and fulfills, brings the fulfillment of your offering. Sutra and the Assembly Alive. Yeah. And people are making offerings and it is enlivening this great assembly. If I'm able to say something else, Reb, I wish that this kind of conversation could be had.

[91:02]

I'm not aware of them and maybe they are happening, but with the Koran and the Bible to make them alive and present and relevant. We just did. Thank you. Welcome Quran. You're welcome to this assembly. We're putting the Quran and the Bible in this pot. There's an offering from Richard. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. The idea of turning and being turned by is beautiful and brilliant.

[92:09]

I have been dealing with chronic illness for many years. and it has given me the opportunities to be turned by and to turn, which makes it a profound blessing and gift. Thank you for inviting us here to participate with you in worshiping Buddha. The last time I saw you, Red, was many years ago. And I remember something from the Sushim that I want to offer to the Great Assembly. And it has had a tremendous impact on my life. And what you said was,

[93:14]

part of a teaching, but the gist of it is as long as we're neighbors, let's be friends. And that has had such a huge impact. And it seems fitting and appropriate to Dharma flowering and turning and being turned. because whatever happens and whatever is happening, we can respond or react, react out of conditioning and habit and be turned by it, or to arrive with a presence and a clarity and a lucidity and turn the Dharma in that moment. So there are many opportunities to be turned and to turn.

[94:24]

And the mantra of, as long as we are neighbors, let's be friends, just for me awakens such profound acceptance and welcoming of... whatever is happening, pleasant or unpleasant. So that is my offering to the Great Assembly. Thank you. Thank you for your offering. Thank you. As Buddha said once, I hear, good friendship of the Buddha way is the entirety of the Buddha way.

[95:26]

Next offering, please. It's 1055. Our last offering is from Vasya. Is that how I say your name, Basia? If you want to learn how to say it in Polish, it's Basia. So it's a bit, it's not, there is not that separate ja. Basia. Yeah, that's it. Nice. Well done. So... So... this sutra revisiting this sutra is kind of interesting experience for me so I have read this and I have done not a written copy of it but I have done a recording of it you may remember this I think I told you that and I didn't want to write but I like to speak so I did

[96:44]

And when I heard this yesterday, all the reactions of the people, I was kind of fascinated. Like, okay, I'm pretty well remember the big stories from the sutra, but I don't remember it. So I went back to reading it yesterday. And what I thought was it's a great sutra because it does undermine our need for certitude, to understand things, the urge to find meaning in things, the urge to perceive reality through our language. So I thought, I kind of remembered when I was much younger, I used to look at, I thought that Dharma is going to help me to figure the world out. Now I see that the world cannot be figured out.

[97:50]

The world can only be perceived directly and loved, related to. It's as I was reading, I think I'm on page 50 something now. in the 10 benefits or something, the list. And I thought, wow, this is such a great review of the things that we need to look at ourselves and how we relate and where we can kind of see what's still missing in my practice or not yet. acknowledged so I started underlining all these things just to see what self the inner self is relating to like oh this is a good idea and that is a good idea and this is a good list so at the moment I don't have any negative reactions to this I'm still waiting for them but I do appreciate

[98:59]

especially the moment when he says that multiple meanings are so, you cannot explain the sutra because there is so many meanings that it is impossible to explain. I thought, yeah, exactly, that's what life is. So just give up and enjoy it. And as I started to live that way, I kind of could relate to the comments about the dying. I just moved to a completely different climatic zone on earth. And I'm starting to see how much closer I am with the sense of death and how, how What's the word I'm looking for? How fragile are we? And being intimate with this can be unpleasant, but also can be very turning.

[100:11]

Me, cooking me. So, I think I have Yeah, so I think that I've said enough. And also somebody mentioned the respect for everybody else. That's something that I guess it's like for the whole world that the sutra is teaching us. Not just respect, but more like with full attention. Relate to the world with a full, unreserved attention. And if I'm lacking it, to notice it. What's getting in the way to that attention? And then the sutra is a pressure cooker. It's great. Thank you. Thank you, Basha. for your wonderful offering.

[101:14]

And I'm sure everyone accords with you this thorough, wholehearted attention to every moment of life. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of his way. Beings are numberless. I vow to save them. Afflictions are inexhaustible. I vow to cut through. Dharma gates are boundless. I vow to enter them. Buddha way is unsurpassable. I vow to become it.

[102:10]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_90.47