We have just recited chapter 6 of the Mahayana Samgraha in English translation. And I just want to... I just want to speak in a way that you can hear me in the back of the room. Is that good now? And... remind us who wrote this... This summary of the Mahayana is a person who, we have the story anyway, is a person of, as someone said, unthinkable, unspeakable, anyway, unthinkable compassion, just so compassionate that it's really miraculous that someone could be so compassionate. However, in his story, his compassion grew. He was a great and devoted student of the teachings of Shakyamuni Buddha.

[01:08]

And he sensed that the practice of compassion was the way to go, and he tried to practice it. And he also wanted the future Buddha of loving kindness to come and help out He wanted the wisdom of the future Buddha and he wanted the compassion of the future Buddha and he practiced compassion, he contemplated compassion and his compassion grew and [...] grew until it reached this amazing level of development where in that compassionate context he was able to receive these again miraculous teachings from the future Buddha and then these teachings are now in this world some of their Sanskrit originals may be lost but most of them now are translated into

[02:13]

either Tibetan, Chinese, Japanese or English, most of them. And one of them is the one we just chanted chapter six of. And at the beginning he says, I just want to say once again that all these great Mahayana teachings came to Sangha from the great bodhisattva in this revelation of these mayana teachings came to him in the context of compassion. This wisdom arose in this great compassion practice that he was doing. And the chapter six starts off by saying, we have explained above the excellence of training in discipline.

[03:18]

We have explained the excellences in the practices of the causes of entry and its results. So that's in chapter 5 and before. And what then are the distinguishing characteristics of learning discipline or learning ethics? This, the way Asanga set this book out is he starts at the beginning of talking about ten excellences and that's the way the book is set up. It has ten chapters and each chapter is about an excellence, an excellence of the great vehicle, ten excellences. So this is the sixth chapter and now we're talking about the excellence of training in ethics, bodhisattva ethics.

[04:27]

Now this excellence was also talked about in the previous chapters, but this chapter is specializing on ethics, whereas in the previous chapters it was part of the excellences of the causes of entry into understanding the teaching of conscious construction only. Now we're looking at just the excellence of ethics. And then he says there's the excellence of its varieties, the excellence of its extensiveness, excellence of its profundity, and excellence of its common and uncommon characteristics. So the excellence of its varieties, we have been talking about. It can be presented as three.

[05:29]

You could also present it as five and ten and so on, but still bodhisattva ethics, when presented in this threefold way, includes the fivefold way and the tenfold way and the thirtyfold way. There are other ways to analyze bodhisattva ethics. But this three-fold way is all-encompassing. And it doesn't just encompass ethics, it encompasses wisdom and compassion. It's the whole practice. And of course the whole practice includes these three. These three include the whole practice, the whole practice includes these three. And we have talked about the first one quite a bit. the ethics of restraint. And again, it's, you know, when the Buddha used the expression, restraining the senses, Andrea Sambara, he didn't mean that you restrain the senses, it's that you restrain the outflows

[06:48]

in relationship to the senses. You restrain any involvement in gain and loss around seeing and hearing and smelling and touching and tasting and thinking. So it isn't that you exactly restrain your thinking, you restrain the afflictive emotions around your thinking. You restrain the the kind of energy gain and loss that occurs around self-clinging in relationship to your thinking and seeing and hearing. So it's a restraint of the outflows and the inflows. It's a restraint of impurity in our experience. And this text says that the ethics of restraint is the support of the other two.

[07:52]

And it said, I think it says that the ethics of restraint supports the other two and then it says that the ethics of gathering all wholesome factors is what gives rise to the Buddha qualities. And the ethics of maturing beings matures beings. And those who are developing the Buddha qualities are also doing practices to serve all beings. So those two go together. They're a little bit different. One is developing the qualities of the Buddha, the other is like the field of work of the Buddha, is where all the Buddha's practices apply to. Just like the first one applies actually to the states of living beings, and you apply this restraint of outflows in relationship to all beings.

[08:59]

And then, based on that restraint of outflow, you then do all these wholesome factors in relationship to all beings. It didn't mention here, but it sort of mentioned the point of the first Training in ethics, the first ethics of restraint, is to support the other two, but another way to put it is it's to settle down, it's to settle the body and mind so it can support them. We can try to assemble wholesome factors without being subtle, but we'll just not be very successful. Like the acrobat who tries to balance his apprentice on a pole on top of his head will not be successful unless he's quite concentrated. So the first ethics of restraint is an ethical practice, but it's really kind of a concentration practice.

[10:07]

And it's a focus and a settledness, but also it's an openness to all these innumerable beings and practices. Is that clear? Make sense? Yes? No, thanks. You can stay there. Thank you. Unless you'd like to come forward. I was wondering if we could speak of restraining the senses when we give the other instructions to say that we are actually looking at the wall and so we are sort of quietening down also not just the outflow of the senses but the senses themselves that they are not too open. Not too open? Yeah, not too open and not too closed. So you're focused, but not overly focused. You're not focused to such a point that you're not open to everything around you that you're not focused on.

[11:12]

So you're focused on presence, you're focused on presence, and you're focused on presence, and you're focused on presence, you're focused on presence, and you're focused on presence, but you're not closed to everything, everything. That's samadhi. So you're flexible and pliable and settled and calm. Not distracted, but not tight. Yes? Can the discipline that accumulates good states be said to be the discipline that resolves karma? That resolves karma? Yes. Yep. It's the discipline... that transforms the results of all of our past karma into the dharma body of the Buddha. Now, all those practices can be summarized as under the six perfections of the bodhisattva, those wholesome factors.

[12:28]

And if there's anything that you don't think is the six perfections that's wholesome, that would be included too, but actually it would be included. You just don't know it yet. So all wholesome things, and they're often summarized as the six basic bodhisattva training methods of giving ethical discipline, patience, heroic effort, concentration, and wisdom. so I just briefly maybe briefly go on to the next one which is kind of a Kind of a difficult point, but basically it's saying that there's a common ethical training between the bodhisattvas and those on the path of individual liberation. So some sentient beings aspire to become liberated themselves, and some sentient beings aspire to be Buddha for the liberation of all beings.

[13:36]

And over the years, as we've been discussing the bodhisattva path, a number of Zen students who have, you know, have a Zen center... They don't have a Zen center credit card usually, but sometimes they do have a Zen center credit card. But also they have a Zen center membership card, which has their picture ID on it so they can get into the Zen-do. And... And they come and they tell me, you know, I just wanted to let you know that I'm actually not here to save all sentient beings. I'm here to save myself. Can I stay? I say, sure, you're welcome to stay. We love people who want to liberate themselves. We even love people who want to imprison other people. We love everybody at Zen Center, right? Great aspiration. That's our aspiration, yeah, right.

[14:38]

And so some people have not yet been able to say, well, I'm here to save all beings, but I would like to be happy, and I would like to be free. I would like to be at peace. I would like to be at ease. I'm suffering a lot. I'd like some relief, or at least a reduction in my suffering. And I thought maybe I would... be able to get some relief from suffering by coming to Zen Center, and that's why I'm here. And is that okay? And yes, it is. I want to keep talking for a while, if I may. May I? Is that okay? So that's a path of liberation for individuals has been taught by the Buddha. And that path was taught in his first teaching to his first five students. He taught them how to become liberated. They listened to his teaching, they practiced it, and all five of them became liberated in a very short period of time because they were already highly trained in ethics and discipline, quite compatible with the ethics, discipline, and concentration.

[15:53]

So they were ready for wisdom teaching. So the first teachings given by the Buddha are wisdom teachings. Although he mentioned the Eightfold Path, the Eightfold Path starts with wisdom teachings, which he taught them. Right view, he taught them first. And they became personally liberated, those five people. They became arhats rapidly. So the Buddha did definitely support and care for people who wished to be liberated themselves. The Buddha himself was a person who wanted to liberate others and who was liberated. And he'd been wanting to liberate others for a long time. So the ethics of the bodhisattva shares things with the ethics of the individual liberator. The liberation on the individual vehicle shares with the bodhisattva.

[16:56]

And in that part, they share a certain freedom from unwholesomeness. That's what it says here, in a way. But there's other areas they don't share. So there's some situations where the Bodhisattva precepts would require them to act in a way that for a person on individual liberation road, it would be a mistake for them. So a bodhisattva could do something which would get them in trouble, but they do it for the welfare of others, and for them it's not a mistake. But if someone who is on individual vehicle path, it would be a mistake for them, because they're on the path of getting out of trouble. Their main thing is for them to get out of trouble, so they don't do things which will get them in bad situations, situations where they will, you know, in some sense, suffer. But bodhisattvas happily do things that might get them into suffering if it seems beneficial to others.

[18:03]

So for them it would not be a fault, and for the individual liberator person it would be a fault. So that person should not do it and the bodhisattva should. Vice versa, The individual vehicle person, there's something that they should do which would promote their individual liberation, but a bodhisattva should not do because it's not compatible with his vow to help people. So if he would do what the individual vehicle person should do, in other words, if he would do what would promote individual liberation, that would be a fault on his part. And the main thing that she would do that would be a fault is the individual vehicle person, it is appropriate for them to go and enter nirvana and

[19:07]

and not come back. That's appropriate for them. Bodhisattvas do not, that would be a mistake for a bodhisattva. That's the main one. That's the super duper one. In some sense that's the worst thing a bodhisattva can do is go to nirvana and not come back. Now that could be individual vehicle or bodhisattva vehicle. You can't tell which there. In this arm? No, yeah in the arm, right. So that's Asanga's comment which is present in lots of other places that bodhisattvas are very careful not to grasp nirvana.

[20:11]

Whereas individual vehicle people, it's okay for them to do it. That was the deal from the beginning, that they were going to do that, if possible. And in a way, it's easier for bodhisattvas to get close to nirvana because of their bodhisattva vows than it is for the person who's trying to realize it for themselves. It's easier. And, of course, because of their vows, it's easier for them to give up because they got the concept to give it up. The other people just give it up. What do you mean give it up? I never heard about that. So bodhisattvas are getting ready to give up nirvana long before they get there. But we should be able to go there if it would help people. And it does help people. So go there, but don't hold on to it. So that's the second point that the song is making about the precepts. Some places they're very much the same. A lot of the time they're very much the same.

[21:16]

Maybe most of the time they're very much the same. Maybe most of the time. And I'll tell a story soon about most of the time. And so the bodhisattva can train in the ethics of restraint in the common and uncommon areas of restraint. And the next one is the excellence of scope. And so one scope is the scope of what? What's the scope? First scope of the first extensiveness, I should say. Extensiveness of? No, extensiveness. Yeah, excellence and extensiveness. So the first extensiveness is extensiveness of? What? Yeah, extensiveness of immeasurable trainings, right.

[22:17]

Do you see that? So the first characteristic, the first thing about the ethics that he's teaching is the varieties. We have three varieties. The next is the common and uncommonness, okay? And the next one is the extensiveness, the excellence of extensiveness. And there's four extensivenesses. The first extensiveness is the extensiveness of what? Many types of training. So six doesn't sound like so many, but six actually is shorthand for infinite types of training. And again, the bodhisattva just has this basically... Yeah, so that's another difference between individual vehicle and bodhisattva vehicle. Individual vehicle, all you got to learn is enough to get to liberation. You do not necessarily have to learn quantum mechanics or ice skating or poker or bartending or whatever.

[23:25]

Bodhisattvas have to learn everything that would help people. They have to learn all kinds of stuff that they don't need to become free, but that other people are into. Now, a given person you meet isn't into everything, but they're into some things, and those are the things you need to learn in relationship to that person, to some extent. Because you're serving all beings, you have to be skillful sort of in all beings. So, yeah. So that's the extensiveness of their trainings, which, yeah, that's different for individual vehicle. There's another expression. There's like three kinds of all knowing. One kind of all knowing is called all-knowing, sarvajnana. And that kind of all-knowing, the first kind of all-knowing, is all-knowing which liberates a person who... It's a knowledge which is liberation for a person, sarvajnana.

[24:34]

And the liberation knowledge of the Buddhas and the Bodhisattvas and the individual vehicle people is the same. The individual vehicle people have all knowledge. They know all they need to know to be free. Bodhisattvas do too, at a certain stage anyway, and Buddhists, of course, do. Then there's another kind of all knowledge called sarva-marga-jnana. The knowledge, all the different paths, knowledge of all the different paths. So that's, bodhisattvas have that knowledge of the paths of all the different beings. And then the other one is sarva-akaranyana, and only the Buddhas have that all knowledge. So the Buddhas have all three, bodhisattvas have the first two, and those who are on the path of individual liberation or liberating themselves have the first one. So the second type of knowledge of all the paths relates to this

[25:37]

extensive scope of being up for learning all the skills, all the disciplines that would be beneficial to beings. Which of course is like inconceivable, but that's, it's an inconceivable scope of practice. And what's the next excellence of extensiveness? Huh? Merit. So that's what happens when the book... Read about the merit one, would you? What does it say? The extensiveness whereby she embraces immeasurable merits. Okay. So that's the immeasurable merit. So it is meritorious to take care of yourself, to practice the four foundations of mindfulness. to practice ethics of restraint, it develops a lot of merit, but there's other merits that are developed by serving beings, like nurses and mothers and fathers and cooks, people who serve people in this way.

[26:42]

These are merits that are very extensive for the bodhisattva. And what's the next one? The extensiveness of what? What? whereby he embraces the aspiration toward joy and benefit for all sentient beings. Yeah. So, and that's the extensiveness where the bodhisattva... It's actually, I think it'd be better to say it in another order, by which they embrace benefit in joy or benefit in happiness. So first, first they embrace beings in such a way that beings learn the practices... that bring them benefit. They learn the practices which bring the benefit like generosity, ethics and patience. And then once they do those practices they have more confidence and they're benefited in their suffering and then they move on to practice heroic effort, concentration and wisdom and then they

[27:53]

And then they embrace happiness. So first benefit, then happiness of liberation. So that's another way that they are extensive in their initiating people into the work of benefit and the work of happiness. Or the work of the basic practices of faith, the first three paramitas, and then the last three. And the last one? What's the last one? The excellence of complete perfect enlightenment. The scope of complete perfect enlightenment. Is that the last one? Yeah. So that's very extensive too. Inconceivably unbounded and extensive. So those are the excellent extensiveness of the bodhisattva ethics. And then we come to the profundity. And the profundity is basically... that these precepts are so profound that we're going to have some interesting stories.

[29:00]

And I brought one today where we see people who are in the bodhisattva path acting in ways that we wonder, how is it compassion? It doesn't look like our usual idea of, well, sometimes it doesn't look like our usual idea of compassion, what the bodhisattva is doing. So a bodhisattva might be a king, as it says, and torment people in order to help them enter the practice. Or a bodhisattva might exclude someone And again, I just thought of mother horses. I shouldn't say mother horses, but yes, mother horses, but matriarch horses. I heard that horse herds are matriarchal, that the people who are in charge of running the herd are female.

[30:04]

And they discipline horses. their herd if particularly usually little baby little colts they hang out with their mom and they you know they just want to be with their mom and they do not get too rambunctious in cost of their littler so even if they get rambunctious it's okay but when they get to be adolescents if they get rambunctious the matriarch I heard excludes them from the herd they get pushed out And of course when they're pushed out they get scared because when they're outside the herd the wolves can get them and stuff, right? So then they kind of usually calm down and the matriarch lets them back in. That kind of training is not necessarily, well in some sense it's motivated by the, from the welfare, the biological evolution for the welfare of the herd. And a bodhisattva might do that to help someone who's not practicing ethics, might exclude them in order to get them to practice ethics.

[31:17]

In order to, for example, practice the ethics of restraint. They might do that. So a being who is perhaps like a sangha, inconceivably compassionate, might exclude someone from the group who needs this exclusion in order for them to practice ethics. And those are really tough stories. And I was going to bring some tough stories up today. As a matter of fact, now that I think of bringing them up, a whole bunch of other ones come up out of my mind. Yes? Who or how Is it bodhisattva? Who is a bodhisattva? How, who kind of keeps a check? I mean, does a bodhisattva keep a check on themselves? Or who is the, or what? Does a bodhisattva keep a check on themselves? Yep. And also, the Buddhas and other bodhisattvas keep a check on the, and the co-practitioners keep a check on the bodhisattva.

[32:28]

So bodhisattvas practice in sangha and they keep track of themselves. and the other people in the Sangha are keeping track of them, and also they present themselves to Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, when they've checked on themselves and found a problem, they present themselves to the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. This is the pure and simple color of true practice, the true mind of faith, the true body and faith that they do that. So as I mentioned before, When you're established in ethics of restraint, that means when you first hear about them you're not established because you're not clear what they are. You've heard about them but you have your idea of them but you haven't checked your ideas out with your friends and your teachers. And so you go back and forth and gradually you get a clearer idea of what the ethics of restraint are And then you start noticing that you're not following it. So once you're established, then you can check on yourself.

[33:31]

You can check on yourself before you're established, but it's kind of confusing to check on yourself about a form or a regulation when you're not clear about it. It's hard to check on yourself. You can do it somewhat, but the clearer you get, the easier to check. And also, the clearer you get, the easier for other people to check, because you can tell them clearly what you're committed to. So then you enter into a long process of watching your behavior in relationship to these forms and to see if there's any outflows around your behavior in relationship to these forms. And when you deviate from them, is there outflows around the deviation? And part of the profundity is that you can deviate from the forms and have no outflows. That's part of the profundity, is that you could do something that looks like a deviation, but actually there's no outflows, and therefore it's not a deviation.

[34:33]

Okay? Did you have a question? Was there another question? Yes. I read this text when you passed it. Yes. And I was really... I think it can be very dangerous. Yeah. Because... One could declare himself a bodhisattva and justify anything he would do. One could declare oneself a bodhisattva and then attempt to justify anything they do. But they would not be successful. Bodhisattvas never declare themselves bodhisattvas. So we would know right away that this person was not a bodhisattva if they were declaring themselves a bodhisattva. Or we would know that they're unskillful bodhisattva. But I realize that this chapter is dangerous.

[35:38]

It's dangerous to go on a 12-year retreat. It's dangerous to lick maggots off dogs. This is a dangerous path. That's why I'm hoping that I can bring up... I have some more scary stories to tell you about this. So I'm saying before I bring it up that this is... We're going down into the Green Dragon Cave. We're going into... We're going into some scary stories, it looks like. But you've already noticed that this text is saying something like... that the Bodhisattva could, it's possible that the Bodhisattva would murder. It's possible. And there's a story that I think the Buddha in one of the Jataka's tales did murder in order to protect the person that was murdered from going to hell. And also to protect all the people who were going to be murdered.

[36:42]

There's that story. So then you say, well, that's a dangerous story because then people think that they could go and murder people. Well, if you actually, if somebody's about to murder 500 people and the story is 500, so it seems like it's kind of, was it really 500? Wasn't it 466? So it's kind of, it's a story that the Buddha apparently told or that Buddha's disciple told that the Buddha saw somebody who was going to kill 500 people And the Bodhisattva, to protect the murderer from going to hell, killed the murderer and also protected the 500 people. 500 people being killed isn't as bad as 500 people going to hell. Especially when they're being killed, they all are blessing the murderer. For them, they're just going to go to heaven right away, because they're so compassionate.

[37:45]

You can't hurt a great bodhisattva. So these are dangerous teachings. So in that case, bodhisattva murdering for the benefit of other people, would that be not considered a violation of the precepts? It's not a violation of the bodhisattva precepts if they kill in order to benefit. So we're saying that the bodhisattva is unsullied in violating the common practices, the common ethics of So the bodhisattvas have an ethic, have a precept called not killing. And the meaning of that precept for individual vehicle person is literally not to kill. And if they would kill, that would not be in accord with individual liberation, of course.

[38:49]

And they would go to hell. But they don't want to go to hell. And it's not that bodhisattvas want to go to hell, it's that they want to benefit beings. So if a bodhisattva could benefit someone and the results of that would be that person was benefited and they would go to hell, then they should go to hell for the sake of that person who was about to commit a murder. So you stop that person from doing a bad thing. You might even get that person to enter the Buddha way by that. You might not, you know, so in the story of the Buddha interacting with Agulimala, the person was going to kill the Buddha and the Buddha stopped him from killing him. And that converted him. So there's no stories of the historical Buddha killing anymore. There's just stories of historical Buddha being able to interact with people who tried to kill him in a way that was beneficial to them.

[39:51]

But it's possible that a Bodhisattva would kill someone for that person's benefit and for everybody else's benefit. But in the case of somebody who is about to kill a bunch of people, the people who are protected, they might feel that the Buddha did not hurt them by killing the person who was going to kill them. But some of them might have felt that way. Some of them might say, I feel offended that you killed that person that was going to kill me. But the bodhisattva is trying to benefit the potential objects of murder and the murderer, trying to protect murderers, trying to help murderers enter the path of wholesomeness. And then the bodhisattva is unsullied in the bodhisattva vehicle and is, of course, majorly sullied in the individual vehicle and would be kicked out of the individual vehicle sangha for that.

[40:54]

He wouldn't be allowed to hang out in the individual vehicle sangha anymore if he did that or she did that. But they would be unsullied in the bodhisattva path and they would be heading towards Buddhahood by doing what benefits others rather than what brings them personal liberation and personal happiness. They would be tormented and perhaps tortured and other things would happen to them as a result of doing those things. But they would accept that in order to benefit other beings. Yes? Yes? But a lot of times we, or most of the time, we don't know what the result is. Right. Well, not just not most of the time, almost all the time we don't know. We don't know what the result will be until we're a Buddha. And we don't know. We do not know. Bodhisattvas do not, the Buddha said only, the way karma works, the Buddha said, is inconceivable to sentient beings.

[42:02]

And bodhisattvas are sentient beings. Even very advanced bodhisattvas do not yet fully understand how karma works. So the bodhisattvas who are committed to these precepts try to do things with presence. They do not know how how it's going to work when they try to do things with presence. And they try to do wholesome things. They are committed to do only wholesome things. But wholesome things also means for them to do things which are conducive to enlightenment and benefit to all beings. That's what wholesomeness means for them. And they do not know what is wholesome. They do not, bodhisattvas do not know what is wholesome. They only are committed to do what is wholesome. They only aspire to do all wholesome things.

[43:05]

They do not know what is wholesome. And, of course, since they don't know, they are welcome to feedback on everything they do. They want to learn what is wholesome, but they don't know what is wholesome. But they wish to do, they aspire to do all wholesome things for the welfare of others and they don't know what is wholesome because what is wholesome is something that has beneficial results and they do not know that the results will be beneficial. They do not know. But if they wait to act beneficially until they know that what they're doing is beneficial, they wouldn't be able to do anything. It's by doing things and learning by your mistakes. Like, I thought it was beneficial and it wasn't, or I forgot to try to be beneficial.

[44:09]

So even though what I was trying to do might not have been beneficial, still I do know that I forgot even that I wanted to do a beneficial thing. As a matter of fact, I did something which I thought was not beneficial, and I don't know if it really wasn't, but I... I thought it wasn't and I was going to do it. And I feel bad about doing things which I think are not beneficial. Even though I don't really know, I thought it wasn't and I was going to do it. And I'm sorry that I was going to do something that I thought wasn't and that you thought wasn't. And you don't necessarily know, but the fact that you think so and it looks like you weren't benefited, I feel bad about that. I'm embarrassed about that. And I confess my embarrassment and regret to you and to the presence of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and that's my understanding of this practice. Do you have more to say at this time? I don't know I don't think buddhas buddhas have a special situation where they don't they're enlightened enough so they don't have to kill anybody but bodhisattvas might get in a position where they have to like buddhas like in the case of the buddha in the case of of a of a murderer never had to murder anybody to stop them but bodhisattvas might have to

[45:42]

So the Buddha only would try to stop murderers but never needed to murder anybody. There's no stories of Buddhas murdering anybody, but bodhisattvas sometimes have to. There's stories of that. The Buddha told a story of his past. I mean, Buddha is attributed to have said in his past, before he was a Buddha, he did that. So Buddhas don't do it, but bodhisattvas might have to. Yes, so, okay. Yes, follow up. So I was wondering if... I mean, it's an extreme example, but... How can I explain it? So one needs to be extremely present to know what to do. One needs to be extremely present in order to know what to do? Again, you don't know what to do. You need to... You have to be more than present to know what to do. You have to be a Buddha to know what to do.

[46:45]

So, you have to be extremely present, yes, in order to successfully practice wholesomeness. Yes, that's right. I don't know, you know, just you have to be present. Yes. That's the first priest, that's the first ethical precept, being present. And being present means you're present. It means you're not trying to get anything or avoid anything. You're just right there. Now, if you're trying to avoid something, you're present with not trying to avoid something. So if you're trying to avoid something, like if you're walking on a tightrope and you're trying to avoid falling off, then you try to be present with trying to avoid falling off. You try not to deal with falling off as a loss or a gain, or staying on as a loss or a gain. So you can be present even though you have a wish to not fall. You can be present with that wish in a way that's not trying to get anything. And then you can be more skillful at walking the rope.

[47:49]

I think most tightrope walkers learn to find that. They find that place. Yes? So practicing wholeness doesn't mean knowing what to do? Practicing wholeness does not mean knowing what to do. Knowing what to do is arrogant. Until you do know what to do. The Buddha does get to a place where the Buddha does know what to do. But before that, we do what we think would be beneficial. And bodhisattvas also, what's your name, Mikael, I said at the beginning, these precepts are something you receive from another. Bodhisattva precepts you receive from another. You don't make them up on your own and proclaim that I have now received the Bodhisattva precepts, I've given them to myself and I'm practicing. You receive them from another and you check with the other about your understanding of the precepts you received. So then if you want to murder something, you check with your teacher who you received the precepts from.

[48:58]

You clarify what these precepts mean. So now you're checking, you're bringing up that they seem dangerous, and that's part of you clarifying what these precepts are. You're saying they're dangerous, and then I'm saying to you, if you ever think of murdering anybody, you probably should check with me for the first several thousand examples of that. And you might find that I didn't approve of your understanding for any of them. But you know that it's possible that at some point that would be the case. Yes? Yes, and American people. But no German people. The Germans got out of it, lucky. So what's your point? What's your point?

[50:02]

That some Zen priest said that? What's your point? Probably they checked with their teacher and said, yes, go. I doubt that they checked with their teacher. I doubt that they did. Well, I don't know. That's right. But I haven't heard about that. I haven't heard about Zen priests getting together and talking to each other about whether killing Chinese people was, you know, in accord with the Bodhisattva precepts. And they had a discussion and the result was, yes, it is. I haven't heard that discussion. What I heard was that people did bring that discussion up before the war. There was a discussion. Before the war, Zen priests were discussing that this military activity, they said, was not a good idea, and they were discussing it. But I didn't hear examples of where Zen priests were going to their teacher and asking about this, and their teacher was saying, yes, it is a good idea. But maybe there were things like that.

[51:03]

It's possible. But anyway, that's the situation that I'm recommending for the bodhisattvas, that they talk to their teacher if they're going to go into the army. And actually one of the, what is his name, Kodo Sawaki was actually in the Japanese military in the Sino-Russian war at the turn of the century. And he was a really strong soldier. So you have to talk to him about what his understanding was there. Did he think he was benefiting beings by that? I don't know that he was. You have to ask him. But he's not around. So the fact that they did those things doesn't mean that they're bodhisattvas. Everybody that gets a head shave doesn't mean that they're a bodhisattva. Doesn't mean that they're following the bodhisattva precepts. And when the war started, the Zen priests who were still opposing it got killed or put in prison. And Suzuki Roshi said,

[52:05]

You know, we don't have him here to talk to about it. What was his understanding? Was he promoting the war? Was he encouraging people to go and conquer China? I don't know if he was. Did he oppose it? I don't know. Some people say he did. He definitely went to help... He went to China... What was his intention in going to China? Was it to help Japanese people kill people or was it to help Japanese people be bodhisattvas? I don't know. But the teaching is very clear that if people are at war and you go into that situation, you're going there to benefit all beings, not just one side. And if you really think you're benefiting all beings, And other people think you're not. This is like a normal human situation. This is the normal situation with bodhisattva practice.

[53:11]

But this is what they aspired to. They aspired to benefit beings rather than be personally liberated. Yes. I just thought about like bodhisattvas do not know the results. Like we say, what do they rely on when they make such dangerous decisions? What do they rely on? You said like one is... Bodhisattvas rely on the teaching. Rely on the teaching, which in one sense says... do not kill, or in the other sense, there is no killing. But still, I feel like, because you said, what you think is beneficial, and I felt like it's often an intuition that might be a sort of thinking.

[54:13]

And then there is this huge danger on one side, but also a huge, what do you call it? courage, I want to say, potential and courage to rely on your intuition when what you are doing is, for example, literally against the precepts. So like Namsha, killing the cat, or whatever. And there's this situation where he's not discussing with 20 teachers before what he's doing. And he's not a Buddha knowing what the result is of what he's doing. And still he relies on his intuition. I don't know what he's relying on as intuition. The teaching of the Mahayana is not rely on your intuition. That's not a teaching. The teaching of the Mahayana is that your intuition is conscious construction only.

[55:17]

That's the teaching. So when you act according to the teaching, you realize you're acting with your interpretation of the Buddha's teaching. That's where my question was going. What can a bodhisattva, not knowing the results, rely on if he does such act, if the teaching does not present the solution of that situation? Like in the case of the cat, for example. Did he rely on the teaching of the cat? You have a precept called not killing, and then you also have additional teaching that your understanding of this precept is your understanding of this precept. It's your idea of this precept. That's the context in which you work on it, is that you receive this precept, you're committed to this precept, to understand this precept and live in accord with this precept, and you don't know what it means. But you think it means not squashing this spider.

[56:19]

That's what you think it means. You think it means not being harsh. That's what you think it means, usually. But that's just what you think. And you think you should not do that unless you also thought for some reason it would be beneficial. But even if you think it's beneficial, you realize you're still working with your cognitive construction of a benefit. And this makes you more skillful in doing what you're doing. and lead you to actually understand the Dharma. And when you actually understand the Dharma, then you will, the teaching here is, the teaching is, you will be more successful in doing wholesome things. When you actually understand and are free from believing your conscious construction, then you enter the realm where you actually are acting from understanding of what is beneficial. Would you agree with that? Well, you can call it intuition.

[57:21]

So you're saying intuition is correct understanding. Yeah. Okay. So if you want to call it intuition, then you can also sometimes call it wisdom. But this wisdom does still not include wisdom. Knowing the result, that's what confused. You could say he works from wisdom, but he still does not know. He still does not know, but you're acting from wisdom. It's sufficient. If you're acting in accord with wisdom, even though you don't know how it works, you're still in accord with how it works beneficially. But you wouldn't know if it's acting from wisdom either, or would you say you would? He isn't aware that this act is from wisdom, right? You would know you're acting from wisdom when you act from wisdom. That's what it means to act from wisdom. You would know? You would know, but you wouldn't think necessarily, I'm acting from wisdom. So how is that would know, then? It is not would think.

[58:22]

It is would know. Yeah. Yes? Yes? Yeah, I'm just coming back to what comes up intuition for me, like acting from wisdom. Knowing that this act is out of wisdom is sort of like knowing that this act is beneficial. It's like catching a ball. When you catch the ball, you know how to catch the ball. You don't necessarily think, I know how to catch the ball. But in fact, you're acting out of understanding of how to catch the ball. When you have wisdom, you act wholesomely. even though you don't exactly understand how it is that it's wholesome. You act wholesomely when you're in accord with wisdom. And being in accord with wisdom includes that you understand that you're working with a cognitive construction of what's going on. And you don't hold on to that idea either. You're actually in accord with the way things work. And you get there by practicing compassion.

[59:24]

And practicing compassion... starts with being present and then it starts with receive that precept and then you receive precepts of wholesomeness and you work on those precepts of wholesomeness and study them and have classes on them and talk about them like we're doing right now. And this is like your job, this is your life, is to work on these precepts. And you try to help people. try to nurse them and feed them and support them and try to do these things. But you also have a teaching which says, you're working with your version of this. Are these teachings also conscious construction? Yes. No, the teachings aren't. The Dharma is not a conscious construction, no. What is it? It's something that's unspeakable. Then why are you speaking so that people can realize it.

[60:28]

Realize what? Realize the truth. What is the truth? The truth is that which brings happiness and ease to people. And those who realize it have gone beyond words and then they come back and speak words so that other people can realize it. And what? Misconstructed. Something somebody tries to explain something is not explainable. And it's many explanations to it. Because, you know, all of... Yeah, they're willing to deal with that possibility. Yeah, they're willing to enter the messy world of language. Language. With all due respect, I don't see what these things have to do with non-thinking. I don't see it. I'm sorry. Okay. Is there anything more you want to say besides that?

[61:30]

Okay. Yes. The reason why someone who is following the path, a reason why someone who is following the path has to love all beings is because they cannot possibly understand the wisdom of other beings. The mass murderers may actually be working for liberation of all beings. There's no way that any being or anybody's suffering. That's what they're doing. Because neither beings nor bodies suffer. No. Is that right?

[62:33]

I couldn't follow what you're saying, but part of it I got, it sounds like bodhisattvas are not in a position to say what's going on with other people. That's not their job. That's not in their job description. So if they can't do that, that's not a problem. That's not their work. So that's why beings that are on the path They can say whatever they want. It's just not their job. Their job is to love George Bush. Or whoever. No, actually, just George Bush. Because if you love him, then everybody knows. So the bodhisattva's job is not to judge other people, but if bodhisattvas see unskillfulness, their job is to try to understand how that is, but it's not that they say, well, that really is unskillfulness, it's just that this appearance of unskillfulness they study.

[63:45]

But they're mostly, again, because of their commitment to presence, They have so much work to do with their lack of presence. They're very busy dealing with their lack of presence. They don't have time really to do much else. But in their spare time, then they try to do what they think is good. And they're not able to do it perfectly, and they understand that because they're not completely present. And they're working on that so that they can be more skillful doing wholesome practices and benefiting beings. But they're not really so much judging other people. They're mostly judging themselves. I said, I want to tell this story today. And here, this story, I want to tell this because this story is, I feel is... It's like an intimate family vision. And it's a vision of our family, our historical family, in a very strange way because it's about our history that's not usually in our history.

[65:00]

So it's a story about this ancestor whose name is, let's just make it short and simple, Fushan. and he he what should I tell you first he saved our lineage from extinction he saved the lineage that we have in this temple he saved it from extinction the generation before him was a great teacher. And part of the problem of being a great teacher is he had trouble finding a successor. And he found a successor, but his successor died. And his successor died when he was old. His name is, we say, Taiyo Kyogen.

[66:03]

Taiyo Kyogen Daisho. That ancestor was a really great teacher. And he found a really great disciple, but his disciple died. When Tayo was old, his disciple died. And he wanted this tradition, this particular style of teaching to go on. And he finally found someone. And the person he found is Fushan. However, Fushan had already inherited another lineage. But he said, would you please take care of this lineage too? And find somebody to receive it. And he said he would. He said that to him after they hung out together and Fushan understood what this tradition was.

[67:06]

which he appreciated, but he didn't want to be responsible for, he didn't want to, he didn't want to be part of the lineage. So, he found, and he found, after ten years, he found an excellent candidate to receive this teacher, and that candidate's name is Tosu Gisei. So always chant, Taiyo Kyogen Dayosho, Tosu Gisei Dayosho. But in between those two, Taiyo died and Fushan held that teaching, held that transmission and gave it to Tosu. We don't say Fuyo's name, Fushan's name. So this person who kind of like this secret Bodhisattva in our tradition, I want to tell you a story about him. So, He actually had already received some encouragement from another Zen master and was doing sort of post-enlightenment studies in a sense, traveling around visiting other teachers who he heard were really good teachers in China.

[68:27]

This is before he met Taiyo Kyogen. And he went to visit, one of the teachers he went to visit was named Gui Xiong or Gui Zong. So he went to visit him with another friend who also became a noted teacher of the great vehicle. And they went to the temple and in a snowy winter time, snowy winter night they arrived and they went into the what's called the Tangadiyo the room for the itinerant monks and when Guisheng saw them he harshly reviled them and told them to get out and they didn't Bodhisattva's

[69:31]

No. To not revile. Bodhisattva precepts are not to revile people or be harsh to people. Bodhisattva precepts are to be kind to people. To benefit people. And this Zen master harshly reviled these people. And they stayed. And then he came in and threw water on them. And these two weren't the only ones in the room. And the other people in the room got angry and left. But these two stayed. Then he came back again and said, if you don't leave, I'll beat you. And one of them got up and went over to him and said... You think, actually before he came in and said we're going to beat him, Fushan's Dharma brother said, you think we're going to leave? We've traveled a thousand miles to study with you. You think we're going to leave if you pour water on us? And then he came back and said, I'm going to beat you.

[70:33]

And again they said to him, if you beat us to death, we won't leave. And then he said, I think you guys need to study Zen. You can put your stuff over there. And then Fushan was appointed Tenzo. And Guishan, for some reason or other, Guishan's temple had very poor food. kind of dissimilar to Zen Center. Very poor food, and on top of that, fortunately, since it was poor, it wasn't much of it. So people didn't have to eat much of this bad food. And when Fushan became Tenzo, when the teacher, Guishan, went to town one day, he stole the key to the storehouse and got some wheat and added it to...

[71:43]

added to what was being available for food, for meals for the monks. And as the story goes, suddenly Guisheng returned and attended the meal and noticed something funny about the food. It was a little bit better tasting, I suppose, than usual. And then he went outside the monks' hall and sat outside the monks' hall and asked Fushan to come out to see him. And he said, is it true that you took some wheat from the storehouse and put it in the food for the monks? And he said, yes, it is. Please punish me. And Guishan did punish him and also kicked him out of the monastery. He excluded him. He rejected him.

[72:45]

And as the story goes, Fushan did not complain. And then when he would see, but he stayed nearby the monastery. He stayed in the town near the monastery. And when he would see his former Dharma brothers, he would say, please ask the teacher to let me come back and practice in the temple. And they asked and the teacher would not allow him to come back. And then on another occasion he said, just ask him if I can come for doksan, even if he won't let me live in the monastery, at least let me come into the room and have interviews, even if I'm not allowed to live there. And he would not allow it. Oh, by the way, when he first kicked him out, he said, get out and repay the money for the wheat.

[74:02]

So he sold his robes and bowls to get money to repay the cost of the wheat that he took from the storehouse. And he did not complain. So I don't know if he has it. He probably somehow got another bowl because he seems to have a bowl later in the story. So then the teacher goes to town and sees him one time standing outside of a residence building. And he says, do you live here? And he said, yes. He said, well, this building belongs to the monastery. You should pay to stay here. So calculate how long you've been here and how much... rent you owe and get the money and give it to the monastery so he did he went begging in the town for the money and repaid the monastery for his housing in that building and he didn't complain he had no outflows I would say around this and then the teacher went to town again and saw him just walking around begging

[75:10]

with his bowl, that somehow he got another bowl. And he later sent word that he could come back. Actually, he went back to the monastery, he told the monks, he said, Fushan is really determined to practice. And he let him come back, and he became his successor. maybe his main and only successor, I don't know. But he's the only successor listed on the lineage charts of this teacher. So that's what it took to make this Zen master. And I told this story years ago, and now I'm telling it again.

[76:11]

When I told it years ago, a lot of people really got upset about it. But this relates to the profundity of the Bodhisattva precepts, that the teacher would be that harsh. And he was harsh with this amazing Bodhisattva. who, you know, basically he was very developed when he arrived, very determined to understand the truth when he arrived. And so he was appointed tenzo. And then he did this thing. He took the key and he took the wheat. And then he told the truth that he did take it. And then he got the results. And the way he dealt with the results... Sound pretty good to me. There could be another story where he, you know, complained.

[77:12]

But the story would have to go on for quite a while until he stopped complaining before he becomes the successor of this very, very severe and strict bodhisattva. Was the Zen master, was Gui Sheng a Zen master? Well, he's on the, he's up there in the, you know, He's up there on the chart and Fushan's up there on the chart. And then what else did Fushan do? This guy is the savior of this tradition. Just one of his sidelights is he went over to save Soto Zen. Somehow he just happened to run into Tayo Gyogen who was on the verge of dying without a successor. And He didn't go there to become his successor. He went there because he wanted to visit another great teacher. And the teacher was looking for a successor. But he already was a successor of Guisheng.

[78:17]

He didn't want to be anybody else's successor. He didn't want to be carrying on that tradition. But he wanted that tradition to live. So he received it and transmitted it. And he had the ability to do this. And he transmitted it to somebody, and that person transmitted it to somebody, and the person he transmitted it to was another great vehicle, a great vessel for the Dharma, and therefore it's continued for a thousand years more. That what's been transmitted is something, these Bodhisattva precepts are being transmitted a thousand more years. And a Sangha way back, about 600 years before this story occurred, we have Sangha saying that one of the aspects, and again Sangha is conveying to us teachings he got from the next Buddha.

[79:23]

But these precepts have a profound aspect and profound is difficult. It has a difficult aspect. And I'm telling you here in the intensive care unit of the January intensive. I'm showing you a text which shows you the profound, dangerous aspect of bodhisattva precepts. Showing you what it takes sometimes to make somebody who can perform a service which nobody else in China available to this great master could perform he was a great master but he couldn't find anybody to be a successor he had lots of students he was well known but nobody was nobody could receive it because nobody had been trained nobody could stand up to being excluded [...] and not complain A lot of people were excluded by Guizhong and left.

[80:27]

They aren't the successors. They couldn't stand the feedback. They were trying to practice and something happened. Or anyway, they were trying to practice and the teacher pokes at them and they say, see you later. This is too uncomfortable for me. In a way, Fusain said that too. He said, I'm Tenzo. You're asking me to serve these people. I want to help them and you're giving me no food. I'm going to get some wheat for them. I know it's wrong, but I think it would be helpful, people, for me to get them some wheat. So I'm going to take the key and get the wheat. Did you take the key and get the wheat? Yes, I did. Punish me. I did it for the monks. Punish me. Okay, I'll punish you. Okay, you punished me. Now can I come back? No. Now can I come back?

[81:31]

No. As a matter of fact, pay rent. But apparently, we don't know, maybe there were some times he was complaining. But the story said he didn't complain. In these interactions with the teacher, he did not complain. He accepted the precept. And he didn't wiggle around with it. And that's what made him able to receive. He put aside everything other than just what's happening here. But this is a tough story. And just the one that pops in mind also came up as the story of the famous one of the archery teacher who said, you just pull the bow back and you just hold it until the string is released. And The German student figured out a way. He figured out a way to let go of it without letting going of it. And the teacher saw that and said, get out.

[82:33]

If he had figured that out and let the bull go and the teacher let him stay, we would not have that story and we would not have that book. But the teacher did not accept it. And he tried to come back for years and the teacher would not let him come back. Finally he came back and he accepted the precept. And he didn't. He accepted it, accepted it, accepted it. And finally the day came when the string was released. I don't know if it came a master himself, I don't know his story, but I just remember that part. So I'm telling you this story because it's a tough story but also it's a story the results of which have saved this lineage. It made a bodhisattva who could take care of this lineage of bodhisattva precepts. And I see in this story the precept of restraint

[83:52]

vibrating, I see the precept of the teacher trying to practice benefiting the student and using harshness to benefit the student who's having trouble with the precept of presence at the beginning. And he continues to struggle with the precept of presence and restraint. The teacher keeps testing the precept of restraint, which then also allows him to be patient with the teacher, be patient with his exclusion, to be generous with the teacher, to give the teacher what the teacher asked for without complaint. The teacher is practicing restraint and the six perfections, and that's trying to benefit the student. And the student is trying to practice the six perfections in relationship to what the teacher is giving him, and has a happy ending.

[84:57]

But it's a tough story. Isn't that a tough story? Yes, you want to come up? You're trapped in the middle. You can stay there. It'll take you a week to get there. Why don't you come? It's a great pilgrimage for you. Fushan traveled a thousand miles. He finally made it. You've come a long way. Thank you. I was wondering in this story, I can see that there's, it appears like Guishan tested, that Fushan was tested. Tested, yes. By the teacher, but was there, it's not obvious that it's, that it was a teaching in there, and I was thinking of all these other monks that were expelled and left, and whether they were taught, or whether there was a lack of spiritual means.

[86:01]

Well, you're wondering if the ones who left were, if he was unskillful with them, the ones who left? Yeah. That's an interesting question. He may have pushed them a little too hard. Yeah, we don't know. I told a story in Being Upright about Hakuin, who there was a monk who was practicing with his teacher. And he had some understanding, which his teacher agreed to. That happens around here sometimes, too, that people have understanding and the teacher agrees to it. And then the student says, well, in this story, the student says, well, nice to know you. I think I'm going to go visit some other Zen teachers now. I mean, you're a good teacher, but I'm not going to go visit Hakowin, the great Hakowin. to see what he thinks of me. And the teacher says, your understanding is pretty good, but I think you should stay with me a little while longer before you go visit Hakuen.

[87:05]

He said, no, I think I'm ready. He says, well, at least let me get you a letter of introduction. So the teacher writes out a letter of introduction to Hakuen, and he goes to Hakuen, the great Zen master Hakuen, whose life was, some of the other examples of his life turned me to Zen. And Hakuen's in the bath when he arrives and he barges into his bath and says, you know, I'm here to study Zen with you. And Hakuen says, oh, great. Well, you've traveled a long way. Why don't you take a little rest and I'll talk to you after a little later. And he said, here's a letter from my teacher. And Hakuen reads the letter and then they meet later and Hakuen says, throws cold water on him, so to speak. He yells at him. And the letter of induction says, this fellow has some understanding, but he's not really very well developed, so please, you know, please take care of him.

[88:15]

And Hakuin blew him out of the water, so to speak, and he went insane. So Hakuin was unskillful in that case, and the person never recovered. So we don't know what happened with these other guys. And again, Suzuki Roshi tells a story. When he was studying with his teacher, I think there were six young monks with his teacher, and he also fed them very badly. It's partly because Buddhism was not very rich in the beginning of the century, last century. But also, anyway, he was a strict teacher, Suzuki Roshi's teacher, Gakujo and so on. And he said, Suzuki Roshi said, all the other guys left, and I would have too, but I didn't know I could. We don't know what happened to those other monks when they left, whether that teacher was skillful with them. When a teacher makes the precepts clear and people don't like it and they leave, it's hard to tell whether that's skillful or not because we don't have the story of how the practice went on from there.

[89:24]

It's when they stay with the precepts that we have the history of their development. We don't know. People at Zen Center have come here and had problems with the precepts and been asked to leave. And some of them have come back and some of them haven't. And we don't know exactly whether it was beneficial that they were asked to leave. In some cases it's not that clear that it was. And with Fushan then, I mean, it seems to me like if Weishan was teaching him something by expelling him, it's kind of saying that what you did was wrong, you know? And I guess I got some hesitation to that. Like, he broke them literally, but out of compassion. The student asked him to punish him. He said, please punish me. That's true, yes. So, yes, that changes my... He said, please punish me.

[90:28]

And also the teacher's saying, I'm doing this thing, you know. This is the way I want the monks to eat. This is the precept I'm offering. How are you going to work with that? And this is how I work with it. And he saw how he worked with it. He said, okay, let's talk about this. The student says, punish me, he punishes him. If the student had said it, I don't know what would have happened then. But anyway, he's working with these precepts. It's not so much right and wrong, it's that these precepts, the point of these precepts is enlightenment. And the point of these precepts is to avoid evil, but it doesn't say the precepts are right. They're a way to avoid what's wrong. It's not clear that what Fushan did was wrong because it was the opportunity for making him into this person who could be who he was. It was amazing. It helped him.

[91:30]

He was already amazing when he arrived. He was already an amazingly devoted person when he arrived and he became more and more developed through this process. So what he did was actually... Beneficial. The teacher didn't say that was not beneficial. But even if the teacher did say that was not beneficial, it doesn't mean the teacher would believe that that was so. The teacher's trying to help this person become a great bodhisattva. And the teacher was successful in this case. The other case is he wasn't successful. Not all bodhisattvas can, in a certain time frame, make all other people into great bodhisattvas. And the ones who they do, the ones they are successful with, sometimes have these really tough stories. And the ones who they're not successful with maybe don't have such tough stories, just throw cold water on them and they leave. But that's the short version of their story.

[92:32]

Maybe they come back later and get more cold water. But it also says sometimes they're, it says here, sometimes they, sometimes they're very nice to them. Sometimes the teachers are very nice to the students. It's not that they're always tough. It's just that sometimes they are. It's not that they're always strict. This is a story of strict one. But then he let him come back. And then he was very nice to him. He made him... He gave him this nice responsibility. He gave him... which he dearly cared for and even though he dearly cared for this responsibility of being the successor he kept studying with other great teachers he kept studying which is what he was doing all along he wanted to study with teachers and he continued after he became a successor and then he became another successor but he so wanted to take care of his earlier gift and transmit that

[93:37]

that he said, I'll just transmit it, but I'm not going to look, I'll let my successor there, he'll take care of it, I won't be involved anymore, because I want to take care of this lineage. So there was a nice side to it, and in the end, Guishan thought, this is great, he told all the monks, this is really, you guys are fine, you stayed here, you didn't have any trouble, you followed the rules in such a way that I couldn't kick you out. and you're fine, but this guy, who I kicked out, now we see, we all see his determination, and this is going to be a great thing. So I don't think we know that, it doesn't look in a way like, in the big picture, what Fushan did was, looks like it was conducive to enlightenment. So according to the individual vehicle understanding, he made a mistake.

[94:39]

And according to that, he didn't want to avoid the consequences of mistakes in that context. But he was happy to accept that because he did it for the welfare of the monks. Was there a teaching that he was taught? Can we know what... What he learned from being expelled? Can we know what he learned? That's what this center is for, is to know what he learned. He is one of our ancestors. What he learned is what we're here to learn. And can we learn it? Theoretically, we can learn it. We can learn the Dharma of this tradition. Can we say what... You can say, but that's not it. It is beyond words. And realizing it is the point of the words. But the words are not it. It's beyond the words. And when you realize it, you will come back from the place beyond words and use words to help other people go to the place beyond words.

[95:47]

And this place beyond words is the place of reality. And from that place, Buddha's wisdom and compassion emanates. Yes. I think this relates to that, just for me. I think you said, sort of in the last class, that the Buddha gave us the teachings, fearlessness, and material things. Did you say that? The three things you give... are material things, fearlessness, and the teaching. Yeah. Well, the Buddha didn't give material things so much.

[96:52]

He gave the fearlessness and the and the Dharma. Those are the two things he gave a lot of. But actually he did give, actually I take it back, he did give material things because when he ordained people, he said, do you have the requisites? Which it means the robe and the bowl. So if they didn't have it, they had to go get the requisites. So they would go someplace and somebody would give them or they would have money and buy a bowl and a robe. Then they would bring the bowl and robe and give it to the Buddha. And then the Buddha would give it back to them. So the Buddha gave a lot of bowls and robes to people. So those are the material. And he might have given some other things that people might have given to him. Actually, now that I think of it, yes. And when he went begging, he would sometimes score big. And he would come back with really a lot of food. And then he would share it with the monks. So actually, the Buddha did actually give food

[97:52]

on a regular basis if he had excess food, and he often did. Or the Buddha would get invited to a banquet and he would invite his students to come and he would share the food with them. So actually the Buddha did give food and clothing and bowls, at least we know, to his monks. Lay people usually didn't need food from the Buddha, but Also, sometimes, in one case, Buddha gave medical attention, material medical attention to one of the monks. We know of that example. So Buddha did give material things too, but mostly he was giving dharma and fearlessness. Where does the fearlessness come from? Well, he demonstrates it. He shows it. He teaches it. He shows, you know, like when he was, one example is when he was dying. He was really having a hard time, but he was not afraid of this illness and this pain and death.

[98:56]

And also his enlightenment story, at least the legendary one, he wasn't afraid of the of the profundity of the Dharma, the awesome bottomless quality of reality. He wasn't afraid of it, so he could open to it. And then one legend of that is that all these demons came to say, you know, to try to distract him from it, and he wasn't afraid of them either. And he met them with loving kindness. So he was demonstrating fearlessness quite a bit. And remember the story of Angulimala, you know that story? Angulimala was a mass murderer that came after the Buddha, you know, and tried to kill him. And he wasn't afraid of him. He met him, again, he met him with loving kindness. And in other cases, it was Kisakotami. She was like totally, had lost her mind because of all these horrible things that happened to her.

[99:59]

So here's this naked, crazy lady who comes running at the Buddha, and she wasn't afraid of her either. So the Buddha met some people who were bringing him real pain, a lot of pain, a lot of fear, a lot of violence. And he met it with fearlessness and kindness. So he demonstrated it. So then that's how he gave it. Yes. Yes. Does practicing non-complaint mean don't give feedback? No, it doesn't mean. Non-complaint is feedback. Non-complaint is one form of feedback. Non-complaint is one form of feedback. It's one form of feedback, correct. And complaining... Is another form of feedback. And how does that fit into the teaching?

[101:01]

Well, complaining is usually not non-complaint. Complain is usually complaining. It's feedback, but the person who's complaining is temporarily not being present. So is non-complaint your view of the only way to offer feedback? No, we just said you can offer complaint, and it's welcome. Bodhisattva's welcome all kinds of feedback, including complaint. But the complainer might not be practicing the Bodhisattva way. Generally speaking, if you're complaining, you're not practicing the Bodhisattva way, unless you're just doing it like it says here. Then it's fine, because it says here, by transformation, So you could transform yourself into a complainer. You know, like, I'm a complainer.

[102:03]

And you really do mean this. You sincerely mean this as a generous, loving gesture. Yeah. But that's not complaint-free. You don't really feel like it's a complaint then. You feel joyful to offer this. Certainly. Yeah, yeah. I do. Yeah. And that's feedback too, but that's feedback which is the Bodhisattva precept feedback. And some other people are complaining and they hope their complaint will actually hurt the person they're complaining to. Or they go to complain to somebody so they hope this person will disrespect this person. What if they just want to communicate something sincerely? What if they get hit and they say, ouch, as feedback? Yeah, I think ouch is not necessarily a complaint at all. It's just a natural... Like when Hakuen was... How about if they said, please stop? Please stop is also not necessarily a complaint at all.

[103:09]

Please stop can be a very kind, generous gift and feedback. What if they say, please beware of fanaticism? Yes, that can be not complaining, that can be generous, and you can be doing that with no ill will, or you can do it with ill will. And then when you do it with ill will, you're kind of fanatic. But it's possible to say, hey, let's not be fanatic around here. Or let Chabad sing. Let's be kind to any fanaticism that might arise around here. And also, let's listen to me say to you, if you feel like I'm a fanatic, you're welcome to let me know that you think so. However, I would still recommend that you tell me, and this may be another fanatic thing to say, that I recommend that you tell me that you think I'm a fanatic, that you tell me that in a kind way, that you tell me that in order to benefit all beings.

[104:26]

That was so satisfying. So the other day, I'm not sure exactly when, you were giving different examples about taking care of oneself in order that that's part of taking care of others, like put on your own oxygen mask first before putting on, you know. But today it felt like you were making a distinction between two different kinds of people, and I'm wondering if that's more symbolic. Like, it seems to me Like one person is on the individual liberation path and one person is on the bodhisattva path. But to be on the bodhisattva path, you need to be or to renew the individual liberation path.

[105:43]

No? Would you say that again? So if you're on the bodhisattva path, you need to do what with the individual liberation path? It's like, let's say that in a simple sense, putting on your own oxygen mask is individual liberation. And putting on the oxygen mask of the child is bodhisattva liberation. you're being a bodhisattva by doing that in a simple kind of nuts and bolts way. So... I would say slightly different example. Okay, yeah. I would say that putting on the bodhisattva oxygen mask is to put on two oxygen masks, is to put on all the things. So that's what this says here, is that there's certain oxygen masks for the individual vehicle that the bodhisattva shares. And bodhisattva should put on those parts of the individual vehicle which they share. And they do use those.

[106:44]

They embrace those. And then there's additional masks that the bodhisattva has to put on to do work that the individual vehicle doesn't have to do. So the bodhisattva has two mouths or something. They need two sets. Some they share with the individual vehicle and some they don't. They need both because they do other work that the individual vehicle doesn't take on. Yeah, that completely makes sense. I just have one other question. Could I say something before you ask? Yes. The two types of people are really not really two types of people. They're two different vows. So it's really an aspiration. They had different aspirations. They're not really two different people because a person can vibrate between the two. So when there's a spirit of wishing for Buddhahood in order to benefit beings, there's the bodhisattva. When there's a spirit of wishing personal liberation, there's the individual aspiration.

[107:47]

When there's the wish to have a better life, that's another aspiration. So it's not really different types of people, it's different types of aspiration. That live at different times and different places, maybe in the same people. Yes. Okay, that was my next question. Thank you. You're welcome. Mm-hmm. I found myself very shocked by today that a bodhisattva doesn't really know what will benefit and doesn't have a special knowledge of what will benefit. And so I feel a little paralyzed. Do you just stand on intention and your understanding as good as it is?

[108:52]

Well, what if it's mucked up? And like Fushan, was he a bodhisattva or was he not when he did the wheat? Was that a bodhisattva act or just a student act? My vision of the story is that he was on the bodhisattva path And the teacher recognized that, and the teacher invited him to be the tenzo. And his understanding of bodhisattva path, he thought this would be a good thing to do. And then when the teacher talked to him about it, he wanted the teacher to punish him for doing this thing, which was stealing from the monastery and not going along with the precepts, the forms that Peter set up of locking the door. So I guess I would see this as part of his bodhisattva career, but the particular way he took entailed that the teacher would kick him out of the monastery for quite a while as part of his course.

[109:59]

But he didn't necessarily know that when he made the choice. He didn't necessarily know he'd be kicked out, no. He didn't even know that the teacher would catch him at doing it. So he was just looking at the situation based on everything, his understanding of the teachings and the precepts. He called a shot. Yes. And I think, looking at the trajectory of his practice, it seemed like he was always trying to help people. All I hear about him doing is trying to help people. I guess I romanticized and thought that bodhisattvas did have a special knowledge, did have a way to, you know, whether you call it intuition, call it whatever you will. Bodhisattvas, they do get special knowledge. They become Buddhas. Bodhisattvas become Buddhas. Well, we're talking about the bodhisattvas. They have tremendous understanding, but the one thing they don't have, the most lofty thing, which the Buddha says only Buddhists have, is they don't understand how, you know, actually, accurately, precisely, they don't understand how the world works.

[111:14]

Only Buddhists do. However, they do correctly understand that quite early in their progress, they do understand some basic precepts, some basic teachings. They do understand them and they practice them and they learn that when they practice them, they feel more and more confidence in them and they feel more and more joy in them. They don't know how that works, but they do know that they're really happy. And that they know that they're much less afraid than they used to be, and much more generous than they used to be, and much more patient than they used to be. They know that, but they also know that that may just be a dream. They also know that, and if they're right, it might be. So they're actually open to like getting happier and happier without being sure that they're happier and happier. And asking for feedback from other people about how they feel about their happiness. And they, generally speaking, they notice other people agree with them. But sometimes they don't. And they also have the understanding, they seem to understand more and more this, that they should welcome people disagreeing with them.

[112:22]

Yeah. Beginners usually don't, aren't up for that. It's not the disagreement part that I'm stuck by. It's that you're trying to make an action. You don't know if it's going to benefit all beings. You have a commitment, a vow that you are living for the benefit of all beings. Should I take the wheat? Should I not take the wheat? But just now you came up here. You didn't know if that would benefit all beings, but you gave it a try, didn't you? Yes. Yeah. You could have asked Paul. Paul obviously kept going out there and telling you, what do you think? And Paul could have said, well, I think you should stay in your seat. Then you could have asked Kathy, and Kathy said, I think you should go up. And then you say, well, geez, maybe I'll wait a little while longer and talk to Paul some more. Kathy thinks it's okay, but Paul, you know. Kathy, she has quite a bit of experience, and maybe she's right, but I should also respect Paul. So you might not have come up if you talked to them about it before you came. Or they might have both said, yeah, go ahead. And you might have come up here, but you weren't sure it would be beneficial.

[113:30]

But you consulted with them. But maybe you don't always consult with them But you could have. And you could also have consulted with me. I was thinking, come up here. You think I should? And I might say, no, why don't you stay down there? And I think, actually, I'm not just being rebellious. I think, actually, I do want to come up here. I really do want to. I think it's good for me, in this case, to offer you, to come up and tell you, I really want to come up here. And in my life experience, somebody talking to me like that, I can almost never think of an example where it has been harmful. I can't see how it's beneficial, but when people tell me how they are, I can't think of an example in my life when I'm sorry that they told me. I can't say for sure it's been beneficial, but I think it has been. It seems like it. I feel alive when people tell me about how they really feel and what they really want.

[114:32]

That domain I get. It's the wheat domain or the killing 500 people where it seems like it's higher stakes. Well, have you ever run into a situation where you felt like you should kill someone? No. Yeah, so I'm just saying, in the book it's saying that, but you don't have that situation. Have you ever had a situation where you thought you should tell someone that they should leave? Like Steph just brought up, have you ever had a situation where you felt like you should offer somebody a boundary? So there it is. Those examples, you work with those. And if you work with those, you actually get to situations where you'll get more and more advanced challenges. That will be your gift, is you'll get into situations, for example, where you really feel like, I've got to really, this is a big boundary. This is like a big boundary. And it's to somebody who you really think is great.

[115:34]

This is like a great person, and it's very risky now. You've got to be careful. Are you really present? Are you really present and settled here? Do you really feel generous? Are you really being careful? Are you really patient with the pain of this moment? Are you really calm? Okay, here we go. I'm giving you this offering. And I welcome your feedback. And ultimately, I don't really know. I can't know if that will be a benefit. But I put all those things in place and I just do my best. Yeah. And the Buddhists say, well, ultimately, you will know. You will ultimately know. At Buddhahood, you will know. Before that, it seems like you can be clear anyway. I don't know if you want to use the word know, but you can be clear. If you think...

[116:38]

that the path is to have a certain aspiration, like to realize Buddhahood for the welfare of all beings, if you think that that's the thing that bodhisattvas share, and you tell me that, I say, yes, I agree. That's it. And we can look at all these texts and say, that's the basic thing. And here's the precepts. If you think that, do you know that that's the case? Could you be dreaming? Yes. The texts say you could be dreaming. But in fact, now we're doing this little dream. The dream is, you're you, I'm me, and the teaching is we're not separate, and the teaching is that if we have this aspiration, we share, this bodhisattvas have this, and now we can take these precepts because they go with this aspiration. This is quite clear. You can know that. But how your actions are actually going to work, that's something you will ultimately know if you're on this path. This path will lead you to ultimately know that. Which is handy. It's handy to be omniscient.

[117:41]

Prior to that, you're going to have generosity, ethics, patience, great enthusiastic joy, concentration and wisdom to work with. And to have faith in God. And to have faith in all those practices and to have faith that generosity is really a good deal. That non-violence is a good deal. That being careful and respectful of everybody is a good deal. That you have faith in that. Although you don't exactly know how it works when you try to be respectful. You have faith in trying that kind of stuff. And then you have faith that when you don't do this stuff which you have faith in and you notice it, and you feel regret and embarrassment to share that with the Buddhas, you have faith that that's really the practice too. And there's a lot of that work to do, and there's a lot of stories about people who have spent a lot of time doing that work, and these are the stories of happiness in this tradition. People would do this kind of work.

[118:46]

And people who encourage others to do this kind of work is one of these, the precept of the scope of encouraging others to enter this practice. welcome yes I want to ask about Suzuki Roshi and leaving the crazy monk yeah when he left yeah the murdered one yeah and yeah how do you how do you what is your understanding of Suzuki Roshi's action of leaving so the story is it's a a a A monk who seemed to be having a really hard time, who seemed kind of unstable and really, yeah, perhaps mentally ill and needing help, came to the Guru's temple and his understanding, I guess, of the Bodhisattva path is to take care of this person.

[119:47]

And I even think that his wife was uncomfortable with the idea and he was kind of like, It looks like he was a little too, kind of got tight around that, maybe. It looks like that. It looks like he really regretted what he did. He really regretted it. He's really sorry he did it. He seems like he really felt he made a big mistake. But I feel, my sense of him is that before this happened, he had the bodhisattva aspiration. And then he had it afterwards too. And I feel like this terrible, huge mistake that he made, which I don't think he would make it any less than any of us would think it was. I think it fueled the rest of his life and the rest of his bodhisattva career.

[120:48]

I think it made him more gentle and more understanding of how unskillful we can be and more patient with how unskillful we can be, how unskillful he can be. I think it profoundly softened him and made him just right for Americans, that he didn't come with a real strong Zen master thing. Because he did that, in that case he was like the strong Zen master who let the crazy guy into his house. And it was, it looks like it was a real mistake on his part. That's what he feels anyway. But bodhisattvas can make huge mistakes and they do make huge mistakes. That's not what makes a bodhisattva to make huge mistakes. What makes a bodhisattva is what they're trying to do. And the huge mistakes, when recognized and when repented and confessed and repented in the presence of Buddhas, these mistakes are opportunities to deepen our aspiration.

[122:05]

And I I don't know what his aspiration was like before, but it seemed like he was very good afterwards. And he was really kind to his children after that, much kinder. But before that, he was not as kind to his children. I hear from his children. He was a little, his strictness was not so mature. And I think that lack of mature strictness is what led to this mistake. He was pretty young. actually. Pretty young. Pretty immature. And then he matured more and it would have been nice if he had lived a long time because he would have matured more. Suzuki Roshi was not done. He was not a finished bodhisattva. He was evolving. Like all of us. So, we have all made huge mistakes in the past.

[123:07]

All of us. There's almost no mistake we haven't made, probably. The question is not that bodhisattvas are better than other people, it's just that they have this particular type of vow, which is the vow that the Buddhas have, and they keep working on that, and that vow includes having forms to help you realize whether you're present or not, and having intentions for wholesomeness and benefit, which you can look at from your presence and then see if it seems like you're following it and ask for feedback about whether you're following it. And in this way, by doing this training of these precepts, it's proposed that we will realize this aspiration. But it doesn't say we won't make huge mistakes from now on. And it doesn't say we haven't made huge ones in the past. We may make a huge mistake, but then we say, okay, punish me.

[124:09]

And then I hope if you punish me, I will be able to receive the punishment gratefully and say, thank you. I need this because I made a mistake. Let's have it as soon as possible. Give me my punishment as soon as possible." I'm not saying I like my punishment, I just say I need it. I'm not saying I like pain and difficulties, but sometimes I need them. And so that's one way to look at that story. And I welcome you all to look at it in your own way. But let's mostly look at our own stories, right? And our own mistakes. Let's not spend too much time looking at his to the extent that we overlook our own. Did you want to come up? Did you want to come up? Can I please just hear you tell what the story is that you're talking about?

[125:14]

Yeah, I just said a monk who seemed to be mentally came to the temple and Oh, I didn't finish it. He came to the temple. He needed help. Suzuki Roshi put him up. His wife was uncomfortable having him in the house. And the monk killed his wife in a horrible way. So, then his children don't have a mother. And he lives with his children. And his actions are part of the condition for losing their mother. And that... That changed things for him. Tell the wonderful part about her action. What was her action? Tell me. The blowing the smoke in the dog's face. Remember that part of the story? No. Right before she was killed, she was trying to intervene with this monk blowing cigarette smoke into the face of the dog.

[126:17]

Well, you know, I really appreciate you telling me that, that she did this compassionate thing just before he attacked her. So this is also part of this tradition that we have this horrible murder in our lineage. Which, you know, sometimes I think, how could I be a good priest? I don't have anything like that in my background to help me. he had so much horror, you know, to develop patience with. The war, this murder, poverty as a youth.

[127:23]

How can we develop patience without this kind of stress, without these kinds of tests? So whatever kind of difficulties come, hey, great, here's my chance to practice patience I don't want to go look for trouble, but when it comes, oh good, finally, a challenge, I'm glad I remembered. Rather than, I don't need this challenge, get out of here. But if I do say, I don't need this challenge, get out of here, then I want to be compassionate to myself and others who do not want to be challenged, who are afraid and paralyzed by the challenge of other people's suffering. I want to not push them into facing too much suffering before they're ready to face it in a relaxed way.

[128:34]

So Hakuen, by the way, when he pushed this monk and who then became a saint, he told that story himself again. And he said, I made two mistakes in teaching in my life. And this was one of them. He said that was a mistake. He feels that was not appropriate, what he did. That monk was not ready to be challenged. The great Zen teacher made a mistake, a big mistake, So if great teachers like Suzuki Roshi and Hakuin make big mistakes, probably we do too. And I give credit to this community, and I feel like almost nobody here thinks that they don't make mistakes. Most people seem to be aware that they're making mistakes. That's good, because being aware of them is part of compassion.

[129:41]

And confessing and repenting them in the presence of the Buddhas is the pure and simple color of true practice, the true mind of faith, the true body of faith. And this is maybe a trivial thing to mention, but I'm looking at this lineage chart.

[131:06]

And just to have the way it's set up is that Taiyo Kyogen Taiyo Kyogen and Tosugise are right next to each other, of course. And right next to them are Guishan and Fushan. They're right next to each other. And the chart didn't have to be set up that way, but there they are. So here's another example of where the Rinzai, because Fushan was, he's in the Rinzai lineage and the Soto lineage. particularly in the Soto lineage, very intimately interwoven, and where the Soto lineage owes a great debt of gratitude to the Rinzai lineage for saving it, actually. The Rinzai lineage in China saved the Soto lineage.

[132:09]

The training that Guisheng gave to Fushan, made the opportunity to save the Soto lineage from extinction. The story of Guishan and Fushan is on page 140 of the Leighton Okamura translation of Eihei Shingi, page 140, actually page 139, and the story of this very unusual thing. of inviting a successor from another lineage to come and take care of this lineage and then give it to somebody and not take care of it himself anymore.

[133:21]

That's in the transmission of the light under Tosugisei, and it's in the Chinese Zen heritage under those same names. Do you want to hear more about those stories? of the pure rules of the pure rules of a heiji. May our intention equally extend to every being in that place where there is the truth.

[134:20]

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