I get the impression that the word wholeheartedness is not too controversial here. In other words, most people say, yeah, why not? Or, sounds like a good idea. Right? Who said that? What's the matter with wholeheartedness? The more I think of it, the more confused I am about being part of these. It's controversial for you? For me, it is. Are you really sorry? No. Do you think you should be half-hearted about your sorriness? No. Do you think you should be wholehearted about your sorriness?

[01:03]

No. You don't? Do you think you should be half-hearted about your living? Half-hearted about my living? Yeah. Absolutely not. Do you think you should be wholehearted about your living? Yes. What's the problem about wholeheartedness? It's relation to emptiness. It's relationship to emptiness? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. She said, oh, pardon? Sin and import? Oh, single-mindedly? One-heartedly? So, the young lady said she has no, she's completely convinced that she should be wholehearted about her life, wants to live wholeheartedly, but she has some confusion about the relationship or some problem in the relationship of wholeheartedness to emptiness.

[02:15]

I have a piece of paper here on which it says it has a, see, it has a, actually it has a blue, in blue it says whole hearted you can have nests up there if you want to and then it has emptiness then it has a thing like this I have written on here so I have like and I suggested that to you that when you realize that things have no self, have no independent self, have no independent existence, that realization will help you be wholehearted. If you're wholehearted, you will realize that things have no self. And is that what you have some confusion about?

[03:21]

Maybe? Perhaps. Perhaps. But another way to put it, today I'll put it a different way. Sort of with emptiness, I'll write DCA. The Pentacle Rising. Causation. If you're wholehearted, you'll realize causation. if you realize causation, you'll be wholehearted. And I would guess, just another guess, that if I say to Azante, do you think you should live half-heartedly? She says, no. If I say, do you think you should live wholeheartedly?

[04:23]

She says, yes. Yes. that maybe because she's seen some relationship between half-heartedness, half-hearted living, and misery. Half-heartedly and not living. Half-heartedly and not living. So if you're living and not living, that's painful, right? If you're not living your life, you feel pain? Yeah. And she has some experience, maybe, possibly, of living wholeheartedly and feeling like, oh, I'm alive. Is that right? That was my guess. So because of that causal relationship between wholeheartedness and feeling alive, she thinks, oh, I would like to live wholeheartedly, because that goes with being alive, and I'm alive, and that's more comfortable. Whereas half-hearted, I feel...

[05:24]

Well, I feel afraid. So another little circle is the bad one, the scary one first. The unhappy one is half-hearted. And then the other part is fear. And then the other part is at risk of violence. dash half-heartedness. Fear, half-heartedness, half-heartedness, fear, at risk of violence. Another circle is fearlessness, whole-heartedness, non-violence. You could say the risk of non-violence. fearlessness, wholeheartedness, nonviolence.

[06:33]

So another one is wholeheartedness, causation, understanding causation. Wholeheartedness, understanding causation, fearlessness, nonviolence. Not understanding causation, fear, risk of violence. So there's a little bit of a problem in history of, well, Zen anyway. You could say what's called Zen is what, you know, sometimes Zen is called the religion of emptiness. Ever heard that? No? Have you? Who has? Only one person has heard Zen called the religion of emptiness? More than one. Anyway, I don't read many books.

[07:45]

Well, actually, I read quite a few books, but not very much of them. But in some of the books about Zen, it is said, it doesn't very often say Zen is, I haven't heard people say so much actually, Zen is the religion of emptiness. But I've heard people say Zen is often said to be the religion of emptiness. Zen is also said to be the... and actually it's not so well known in the West until recently with the publication of certain books that Zen is the religion of precepts. That doesn't refute that it's the religion of emptiness. The Prajnaparamita Sutras are sometimes said to be, the topic of them is often said to be emptiness, like the Heart Sutra. All dharmas are marked with emptiness. Looks at the topic of the Heart Sutra is emptiness in a way.

[08:48]

Ultimate truth of things is that they're empty. So Buddha taught the teaching of no-self or non-self on Atman. in response to an Indian situation of important religious teachings of Atman. So he discovered, you could say, but also you could say he chose to tell people about Nath's self. But he also taught dependent co-arising. And actually in his first teaching, He didn't say anything about not-self, actually. He taught causation. So, which is the central teaching of the Buddha? Not-self or causation? So, Reverend says, it's the same.

[09:52]

So, Nagarjuna commenting on the Prajnaparamita Sutras, which are talking about emptiness a lot, he says, well, one way of translating is he says, that which is dependent co-arising I proclaim to be emptiness. That being a conventional designation is the middle way. Where's Brian? In disguise today, huh? Right here. So what are some other translations of that phrase, Brian? I don't know. You haven't memorized all the different translations yet? Okay. at least memorize all the different translations of that paraka, please, so that I can call on you when I need them.

[10:57]

That which is causation is emptiness, or that which is causation is non-self. That being a conventional designation is the middle way. And the that refers to, you can't tell which it refers to, whether it's referring to emptiness or dependent co-arising. But he is saying that what I just said is a conventional designation. So although I'm talking about, I'm telling you about, what do you call it, what is it called? What am I talking about? Causation and emptiness. Although I'm talking about it, don't forget I'm talking about it. This is me talking about that. If you forget that I'm talking about that, you might get off track here a little bit. Some people say that Nagarjuna commenting on the Prajnaparamita literature, which is supposed to be about emptiness,

[12:03]

The topic of his fundamental verses on the Middle Way is causation, dependent core arising. So which is most fundamental to Buddhism, causation or emptiness? Well, in a way, it's probably best to put the emphasis on what? Causation. And then empty it. The object of the bodhisattva's wisdom is emptiness, but it's the emptiness of causation. They start with causation. That's the way they understand emptiness. For example, they watch to see if they're wholehearted. And in the causation of wholeheartedness, they realize emptiness. So some people would say that we should understand emptiness in terms of causation rather than the other way around.

[13:18]

Now people can substantiate or substantialize causation But it's not just a problem to substantialize causation as it is to substantialize emptiness. Nagarjuna doesn't say those who substantialize... He doesn't say this. Those who substantialize causation are incorrigible. He doesn't say that. Those who have substantialized causation are not incorrigible. They're corrigible. You can teach people to substantialize causation. Those who take a view in substantialized emptiness are incorrigible. That's what he did say. Those who see a self in non-self are unteachable. Most people who observe causation do substantiate it, but they can be taught to stop that.

[14:28]

And most people do not study causation much, and they need encouragement to study it more, I would say. And I think the Buddha is choosing to encourage us to study causation wholeheartedly. Now, when you first start studying causation, you might not be able to be wholehearted about it. But as you approach deep, as you are proceeding in your study of causation, as you become more knowledgeable about causation, then you're able to be more wholehearted about And when you really understand causation, again, I would say, then you will be wholehearted and you will understand emptiness. I've got this T-shirt here. It's a Tussauds T-shirt. And it says, Deep Faith in Cause and Effect. Oops-a-daisy.

[15:35]

Can you bid on this? Well, since you asked, you can have it. I've got another one that's tighter, if you want. Maybe John Penfield could wear this one. I'm not sure where. So I see this is deep faith, cause and effect. But you can also say, you could also say, what was it? Deep faith in emptiness. You could say that. Deep faith in emptiness. But Dogen didn't write a fascicle called Deep Faith in Emptiness. He wrote a fascicle called Deep Faith and Cause and Effect.

[16:56]

He did write a fascicle about Maha Prajnaparamita and Maha Prajnaparamita's object is emptiness. But it's tricky to say that we have faith in emptiness exactly. But no, we have more faith in the wisdom which understands it. And the wisdom which understands it understands causation. So this is a deep faith in causation. And wholeheartedness comes by developing that faith. The Buddhist, again, in the first teaching, he talks about the middle way. And then he says, what is the middle way? I think he says, didn't he say that in the first one?

[17:59]

The first teaching, what is the middle way? Do you have memorized that yet? The first teaching of the Buddha? You don't know that? Yeah, what else? Didn't he teach the pentacle rising? Didn't he teach the eightfold path? Maybe I'll give you a copy of that. You can read it. And the first aspect of the Eightfold Path is right view, and right view is action has consequence, causation. So I might just say to you that the Buddha way is the basic teaching of dependent core rising.

[19:04]

Pratitya Samuppada. And this was given, this was offered by Buddha and discovered by Buddha and chosen by Buddha among the various things he realized in response to the environment, which where people actually religiously believed in substance of things, that something had substance. People actually felt that way in India, and even today here in America, people still feel that way. And even in this room. Yeah, and even in this room, and even here in this body. And another teaching, another aspect of Buddhism is a moral imperative to live selflessly. And living selflessly comes along with studying causation whereby you realize selflessness of things.

[20:07]

Realizing emptiness helps us be selfless. Living selflessly goes to say the moral imperative to live wholeheartedly for the welfare of others. To live single-mindedly, to live solely for the welfare of others, that moral imperative. Is that familiar? Causation and wholeheartedly living for the welfare of others. And that is a moral imperative. And then also that this practice requires faith in the teachings of the Buddha. that you use these teachings, as I was saying the other day, as a basis for your action. You act based on them.

[21:13]

But you can do that in an experimental way. It isn't like you have to think, if I do these things, then this will happen. It's more like, if I do these things, I've heard that this will happen, so I think I'm going to give it a try. Or if I do these things, this might be more likely to happen than if I don't do these things. Like with Zante, she's already found out to some extent that if she lives wholeheartedly, single-mindedly for the welfare of others, things go a certain way. But somehow we have to hear that instruction first and give it a try somehow. If you have questions, you can come up. So again, I'm suggesting that I kind of think that's a nice way to think about the practice, that the Buddhism is a teaching.

[22:22]

it's a teaching of causation and it's a teaching which has a moral imperative to help others and it requires faith in the teachings that you would actually act on them. And I would just again say that I think it's maybe a good idea to If you want to learn about emptiness, if you want to understand emptiness, it would be good to understand it in terms of causation. And causation, to be devoted to that, you will realize emptiness. And then I would also like to mention that we have this Lotus Sutra. And the Lotus Sutra is a text which says about itself, this is the teaching of the Buddha.

[23:31]

This is the teaching of the Buddha. And what else does it say? In chapter 21 it says... How does it put it? It puts it like... If you read the Lotus Sutra, if you read the Lotus Sutra, including the words you're reading right now, or if you hear the Lotus Sutra, including the words you're hearing right now, it doesn't say that. But if you hear the Lotus Sutra, and then you write the Lotus Sutra, copy the Lotus Sutra, memorize the Lotus Sutra, recite the Lotus Sutra,

[24:35]

and then preach it, and then as you preach it, practice it, if you do that, then the place where you do that would be a good place to build a stupa or a shrine. and a bigger place for people to make offerings, you and others to make offerings, to the place at which you're hearing the Lotus Sutra. And you can listen to the Lotus Sutra, for example, you can listen to the Lotus Sutra in this room. And right now you have been listening to the Lotus Sutra in this room. So this room then, because of that, a stupa could be built for this room because this room is what's called a bodhimanda. This room, when the Lotus Sutra is being recited, as I just did, becomes a mandala of enlightenment where you are sitting and I'm sitting here with you.

[25:49]

And in this room, the Buddha is born at the moment of reciting the Lotus Sutra. And the Buddha leaves home, and the Buddha attains the way, and the Buddha teaches the Dharma, and the Buddha enters parinirvana. So when you or I in this room recite the Lotus Sutra, Buddha is teaching the Dharma. That's what the Lotus Sutra says. That's the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Is the Lotus Sutra always being preached everywhere? Yes, but if you don't yourself preach it, you will not realize it.

[26:59]

But the possibility is to hear it always being preached everywhere, so that everywhere would be a bodhimanda. If you hear it preached anywhere, the Lotus Sutra is being practiced. So that anywhere would be a bodhimanda in that circumstance. Yes, wherever you hear the Lotus Sutra, That is a bodhimanda. That's what the Lotus Sutra says. I just said the Lotus Sutra in English, and as I said it, this became a bodhimanda. However, even though the Lotus Sutra is being preached everywhere, unless you and I listen to it or say it or write it or preach it, we don't realize it. And in that sense, it's not a Bodhimanda. So the Dharma reaches everywhere, but unless you use your fan, the place you are isn't a practice place.

[28:10]

Bodhimanda is, you know, like Sanskrit, right? Bodhimandala. Circle or ring of enlightenment means a practice place of Buddhism. But in, what do you call it, In Japanese, they say dojo, but Chinese is dojo. Do is, you know, dao, the way, and jo is place. A place of the way is the way that they write it in Chinese. So the way is all pervasive, but it's when you practice that the place turns into a practice place. And without making the place a practice place, we don't realize the all-pervasiveness of the way. So Lotus Sutra is saying, okay, here, here's some words for you.

[29:11]

And if you listen to these words right now, if you have faith, in other words, and you do the action of listening to these words, that action of listening to the words, it makes the place where you're listening a Bodhimanda. And that place should be venerated and is venerated by all the Buddhists. And then also you should act, you should practice in accordance with what you heard and what you said. So simply put, listening to the Lotus Sutra is practicing the Lotus Sutra. Writing the Lotus Sutra is practicing the Lotus Sutra. Thinking of the Lotus Sutra is practicing the Lotus Sutra. All those things are practicing it, plus actually trying to do some of the practices talked about in the Lotus Sutra.

[30:15]

Like the Lotus Sutra says, sit upright. That's one of the teachings of the Lotus Sutra. But any and all of the practices of the Lotus Sutra, any and all of the words of the Lotus Sutra, when heard, so any of them that are practiced, or any of them that are listened to, or any of them that are said, at that moment that is realizing Buddha way, according to the Lotus Sutra. And I think according to some other people too, who have heard about the Lotus Sutra. For example, Mano. Ehe Dogen. If you hear the lotus fusion, it says, sit upright, and then you sit upright. You are now practicing in accordance with what you heard.

[31:15]

And you're not necessarily saying, sit upright, although we sometimes say that in the school. But you could say, sit upright. Sit upright. Read the Lotus Sutra. This is the Lotus Sutra. This is the Buddha's teaching. Sit upright. I heard it, now I say it. Sit upright. This isn't just me talking. This is me reciting the Buddha's teaching. Sit upright. Because I am faithful to the Buddha's teaching when I say sit upright, this is a bodhimanda. And at the bodhimanda, Buddha is born. So, very simply, sit upright. And when you hear that as the teaching of the Buddha, and believe, in other words, act upon that being the teaching of the Buddha, and then maybe actually also put your body upright. But even before you put your body upright, just as, oh, that's the teaching of Buddha.

[32:16]

And, of course, I want to practice that. The Bodhimanda is there. Buddha is born at that time at that place. This is similar to being wholehearted. So, for example, when you look at deer walking by, You're kind of touched. When you sit in zazen, you are... Oh! This zazen is, this sitting is performing the Lotus Sutra.

[33:23]

This upright sitting is performing the Lotus Sutra. This is a physical posture which is saying, I believe the teachings of the Lotus Sutra. I'm listening to the teachings of the Lotus Sutra. And sitting that way, you can see if it's more wholehearted. So another way to put it is that when you're living your life as the performance of the Lotus Sutra, your life is more wholehearted, therefore you understand causation. When you understand causation, you live your life more wholeheartedly, you understand the Lotus Sutra.

[34:28]

you'll understand that your action is now performing the Lotus Sutra. Luca, could you give me that cup, please? I'm going to put my chair a little closer to the edge here. Thank you and then things dangling down here I The dependent causation and emptiness, you know, you were saying it's like other things are stored in emptiness.

[35:41]

Can I say something? You said dependent causation. I think it would be better to say dependent origination dash. That's a word for causation. Dependent causation is redundant because the type of causation we're talking about is dependency. Depending on this, that arises. Dependent origination? Dependent origination. It's a type of causation. You've been saying that we create stories, that we believe in our stories. And believing in something, believing that it's a reality, is a story. No. I mean, you just told a story about it, yes, but the belief is not a story. The belief in the story is a dependable arising. And the story is a dependable arising.

[36:43]

But the belief in it is not a story. Right, yeah. Well, I'm sorry. Because you can have a story. It's possible to have a story without believing it. But the... The emphasis in the Lotus Sutra, time and time again, is to believe in the Lotus Sutra. And how do you... I can't put those two together. The emptiness or the non-thingness of things, and believing in the stories of the Lotus Sutra. They just don't fit. Well, you can believe in the stories of the Lotus Sutra as stories. That's no problem in that, is it? I believe that is a story. I believe that is a story. And I believe in the story, which I know is a story. But if you don't know it's a story, it's okay to go ahead and believe the story, period, without even knowing that you're believing a story.

[37:47]

But you could also, this is a story and I believe in this story, which means I'm going to act on this story. I would suggest that way of believing it. In other words, the faith upon which you act. So, for example, the story in the Lotus Sutra that the place where you hear the Lotus Sutra is a bodhimanda, then you say, okay, I'm going to act on that by listening to the Lotus Sutra on tape. or a disc, or I'm going to ask somebody to read it to me. I'm going to act on that in order to create a bodhimanda. I'm going to create a temple. And at that temple, I'm going to do that, build that temple, but primarily, first of all, the center of the temple is I'm going to listen to the Lotus Sutra or read the Lotus Sutra based on that story which I just heard. And I'm doing that so that the Buddha can be born at the place that I listen to it or write the sutra.

[38:50]

It just is dependent origination. It's like all over the place and you don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to do anything about the fact that it's all over the place? Yeah. No, but if you don't do something about it, if you don't practice it, you won't realize it. No. And also, if you don't practice it, you do do something about it, namely you contribute negatively to the process. So would reading and following Lotus Sutra be fanning? Yes. That's what the Lotus Sutra is saying. Reading the Lotus Sutra is fanning. And it's good for you to know that, that you're fanning. That you're reading the Lotus Sutra in order to realize the Lotus Sutra. And to know that without reading the Lotus Sutra, the Lotus Sutra will not be realized. Okay. You talked about like two circles, one with like fear and half-heartedness and the other with fearlessness and wholeheartedness.

[40:19]

Fear, half-heartedness circle. Fear, half-heartedness, at risk of violence circle. And the other one is wholeheartedness, fearlessness, nonviolence. Can you say something about how to get from one circle to the other, when noticing that I'm in fear, then the way to get to fearlessness? Be as wholehearted as you can about the fear. And that means then That's one suggestion. Be wholehearted as you can about the fear. Like acknowledging it? Acknowledging it. Like, hi, fear. And then that's the beginning of wholeheartedness. I see you're here. Can you think of some other ways we can be wholehearted about this fear besides acknowledging it?

[41:23]

After acknowledging it? Well, you could design a T-shirt that says fear on it. Okay. And do it in different colors. Do the word fear in different colors with different colored backgrounds. Can you see that's a little bit more wholehearted fear? Can you see that? No. You can't see that? To be more wholehearted. I'm just making up venues for you in which to open up your wholeheartedness about the fear. Got fear in your heart? Let's open it up. Did that open it at all for you? No? How about dance with it? Does that open it up for you at all?

[42:28]

So then, like, To play with it. To play with it. Yeah. Fear. Right. And maybe I should say, relax with it. Enjoy it. Exactly. Relax and enjoy the fear. Yeah. Engage it. Okay. And the more you engage it, the more wholeheartedly you'll be with the fear. And this wholeheartedness will grow up along with the half-heartedness. So the fear's got half-hearted roots. Right? It's got half-hearted roots. The half-hearted fear circle. So we've got fear, we've got half-heartedness. Right? Well, no, why? Because you're saying to be wholeheartedly fearful, so how can you say it? You've got the fear. Yes. So before, we got the fear. So I'm saying the fear has half-hearted roots, the roots of half-heartedness.

[43:32]

We're in the half-hearted fear circle. And you're saying, how do we get to the other circle? But now this circle, we got half-heartedness and fear. If we've got fear, we've still got half-heartedness. Like because wanting to do something but not wanting to do it. Yeah, for example. Uh-huh. Like wanting to go on a tightrope, but not wanting to go on a tightrope. Yes. like wanting to be concentrated, but also kind of wanting to think about what would happen if I was concentrated. Just kind of started. So that's the half-hearted fear circle. So you're saying, how do we get to the other circle? Well, I'm not exactly telling you how to get to the other circle, I'm actually telling you how to get into the first circle. Because the second circle is happy to go into the first circle. The fearlessness circle, you say the fearlessness wholehearted circle, yeah, you want to go visit the half-hearted people? And the wholehearted circle says, sure. Yeah. It says, sure, let's go.

[44:34]

So it goes over there and it starts to play with the half-heartedness. So then now you've got this, now the, what do you call it, the fearlessness is coming to meet the fear and interact with it. and nourish it so that the roots of half-heartedness dry up and the roots of wholeheartedness get stronger. But again, the basic principle in this practice is the horse arrives before the donkey leaves. The fearlessness comes before the fear has gone. There's still some fear even though fearlessness has arrived. So it would be a normal thing to be then half-hearted on the way to wholehearted. It's normal to be, it's common anyway. It's very common for human beings to be afraid. Also, other animals are commonly afraid. In other words, commonly not wholehearted.

[45:41]

That's the common situation. Now, the rare situation and the wonderful situation is to become wholehearted in a situation where we're half-hearted and afraid. So the Buddhas are sending us messages and teachings about how to be wholehearted in the midst of half-heartedness. So another way to be wholehearted in the midst of half-heartedness or fearless in the midst of fear is to recite the Lotus Sutra. So I'm afraid, I'm kind of half-hearted, but I'm going to recite the Lotus Sutra. In the place where the Lotus Sutra is heard, recited, copied, taught and practiced according to that, such a place should be venerated as a stupa, as a bodhimanda, and such a place the Buddha is born. I recite that in my fear and as I recite that I become more wholehearted.

[46:45]

And also that recitation is a way to play with my fear. I'm not paralyzed by the fear. I'm reciting the Lotus Sutra at the same time I'm praying. So this wholeheartedness is now growing up right in the field of fear and half-heartedness. And this recitation, this non-violence is just growing up. The Lotus Sutra is teaching non-violence. Word by word, moment by moment, and more and more courageously. The more you recite it, the more courageous you get about being non-violent. Which is the same, you get more and more courageous about being wholehearted. But we're not eliminating any half-heartedness. We're not getting rid of the half-heartedness or getting rid of the fear. We're not sweeping it away. Not to mention, we're not sweeping half-hearted people away. Got a room full of half-hearted people. We don't get rid of those people.

[47:47]

We come and we be wholehearted with them. And in ourself, we don't try to get rid of our fear and our half-heartedness. We come and we engage it and play with it and enjoy it. And then this, the whole heartedness grows in the half-heartedness. Just like people sitting in sashi or sitting in a zendo a lot. They're sitting there And sometimes they're sitting there kind of like half-heartedly, like they're in pain. Their pain's fairly strong, but they're not wholeheartedly kind of like, okay, I am in pain. They're not wholeheartedly there. They kind of are wanting to be someplace else. But sometimes they sit for quite a while in the pain, and after a while they're kind of like, okay, I'm here, and I'm in this pain, and I don't... I don't need any other pain.

[48:47]

I got plenty. And I don't want any less either. I don't want less. I don't want more. I don't even want this. I just have this and I completely accept it. And I am in pain and wholeheartedly here in the pain. People get that way. In the half-heartedness, the pain comes in. In the half-heartedness of pain, a wholeheartedness emerges in this practice. Many of you have had this experience. of this thing called wholeheartedness, right in the middle of where you used to be in pain and kind of half-hearted about it, kind of lukewarm about the pain, or even hating the pain, or even afraid of the pain. Right there, the wholeheartedness can grow. Right? You've seen that, haven't you? Have you heard about it? By the way, I was wondering, I'd like feedback on whether there's been enough sitting during this retreat.

[49:48]

Who wants more? How many people want more sitting? How many people feel like there's enough? How many people want less? Thank you for the feedback, and please give me more about it if you like. Please have pity on a dense Zen student. Okay. You want some pity? I want some pity. All right. Are you happy to get it? I'll try again. Okay. I'm trying to grasp this point about wholeheartedness and emptiness. And what you just said, it threw some light on it, but I want to feed it back to you.

[50:58]

Supposing I am facing death, Yes. And it's not going to be an easy death. It's going to be likely to be painful, violent, and inflicted on me from another source, a human source. And so if I wholeheartedly enter into my fear about this situation that I'm in, that I can escape from in any physical way, it seems to me that the fear would be increase, increase, increase, that I might go out of my mind, I might, you know, who knows? Right. That to me represents wholeheartedness. It's completely without reservation going into something. Yeah. All right. And what...

[52:01]

When I hear you talk about this dissolving or change, that seems to me to be something different than wholeheartedness. It seems to me to be... Dissolving your change? Yeah. I'm talking about dissolving? Well, that's my word. But like when you said, when you noted the change in pain, for instance, being in the center of pain and then noticing that it changes. If I'm in the center of... For you, I'd take it back. Forget I ever said that. Just wipe it out of here. Cancel it. You're being compassionate now. I'm just saying, yeah. Okay. So what I'm saying is, if there's pain, I know that people think if you lean into it, it can get worse. Right. And if you lean away from it, it will get worse. So I'm talking about being upright with it, not leaning into it, not indulging in it, not wallowing in it, not hitting yourself with it, and not leaning away from it.

[53:04]

Be upright with it. That's a way to be more wholehearted with it. And now you have the pain of the fear. And then if you think about engaging it, you might feel more fear as possible. Right, that would be wholehearted. But thinking about what it's going to be like is not what wholeheartedness is like. Oh, now this is... That's leaning into it. Okay, okay. So you got the fear. Hello, fear. Hello, fear. Yeah. Not like, okay, I'm going to be with this fear tomorrow. Just I'm with the fear now. Now, if I think about being in tomorrow, I'm less wholehearted with the fear than if I would just be with it now. Okay, because wholeheartedness equates with being in the moment. Being in the moment... Being single-minded.

[54:05]

Single-minded equates with... That's where emptiness comes in, then. If you define wholeheartedness as being in the present moment by moment, no matter how awful the situation seems to be, That's the doorway where emptiness arises or appears. Am I understanding that correctly? Well, sort of, yeah. But it's also being in the moment and having no other... You're not the least bit holding back being there. I'm not waiting for something else to happen. I'm not waiting for emptiness to come knocking on the door or anything. You're just completely giving yourself to what you happen to be. Which is, of course, in reality, you are giving yourself completely to what you are being at that moment.

[55:06]

And yet, you can be a person who's holding back. you can try to hold back and that's who you are completely. You're somebody who's trying to hold back and you can miss that you're completely, 100% wholehearted about holding back. That's why you need to practice being wholehearted so you realize wholeheartedness. When you realize wholeheartedness, you realize that you can't find anything. Because that takes you into another story again, another thing. When you're completely present and wholehearted, you realize that nothing can be found, because you're not there finding things. I just want to underscore this point because the Lotus Sutra drives me nuts.

[56:16]

I think of it as like each chapter as a little payload of really excellent teaching carried along by this enormous amount of propaganda. I think what you're saying to me is the propaganda is the actual, it's the teaching of performing the Buddha way. The teaching of performance, performing Lotus Sutra. And I don't know why, but the way that I think the historicity, there must be some mistake in Buddhist philology or something that it just leaves such a bad taste in my mouth to the point where I don't want to recite it. It's being pushed so hard. It's like, do this. This is the true teaching. And if you do this, you'll get that. And the other teaching, which it seems like... It's basically the same teachings. Performing the Buddha way is realizing the Buddha way. For some reason, it doesn't have... Anyway, I'm just... For some reason, it doesn't have... This feeling of distaste I get with the Lotus Sutra. The other teaching I have is quite wonderful, and it seems like the Lotus Sutra is the same teaching, but the way it's coming up for me is just like this huge resistance to the presentation.

[57:25]

That's it. Thank you. You stay a little longer. Okay. You probably heard me tell a story about my early encounters with the Lotus Sutra, haven't you? So Suzuki Rishi was going to lecture on the Lotus Sutra. He was lecturing on the Lotus Sutra at Tassajara in the fall of 68. And some of us were up at the Sokoji Temple and listening to the tapes.

[58:32]

And in the winter of 69, I was going to go down and he was going to continue probably teaching the Lotus Sutra. So I started reading the Lotus Sutra. But... I closed it after just a couple of pages before I even got to the part that you have a problem with. I guess you didn't have a problem with all those Sanskrit names. No, I kind of like saying them. Well, that stopped me. And other people stop at other places. And so Lotus Sutra is... There seems to be a text that, when people read it, they run up against walls. You said it, Noah Bowd, it had something to irritate everybody. But mine is like, it's all of one, it's all one, the one whole thing.

[59:33]

Well, anyway, having something that irritates everybody sounds like the Buddha way to me. Everybody can be irritated. Everybody can find a place where they're not wholehearted. That's really great. Everybody can find a place where they're not wholehearted. In other words, where they're afraid. Yeah, actually, I find that I'm afraid to go along with this thing which might be false or which might sell me something that I don't want to buy. It's so strong on this is the truth that it's frightening to some people. Some other people, it's like, oh, what a relief, the true sutra. That would be leaning into it. Huh? What? Would that be leaning into it? Not necessarily, but it certainly could be. That person might find resistance when they get to the part about women.

[60:49]

Or they get to the part, you know, some more Sanskrit words. So it's like, this is a case where you're telling us, I'm half-hearted about this Lotus Sutra. or Dash drives me nuts, or I'm half-hearted about being nuts. Yeah, I don't want to... So when we were in the fall, we chanted this quite regularly, or a version of the Lotus Sutra quite regularly, and often I didn't chant. And I don't know if anybody knows. Oh, that was you. I was wondering who wasn't chanting. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. So you, again, maybe you have some resistance to being nuts or something like that. And I'm not telling you you should be nuts, I'm just saying that it's good to find a place where you don't really feel wholehearted.

[62:00]

And then that's the place, that's a place for you to... to engage that half-heartedness. And the Lotus Sutra, one of the things, handy-dandy things, that can help you find that place. So that sounds pretty good. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just wondering if listening to the winds is the same until...

[63:04]

Wholeheartedly. Listening to the wind is the same. You're wondering if listening to the rain is... To the wind. The wind? You're wondering if listening to the wind is the same as being wholehearted? No, if wholeheartedly listening to the wind is the same as listening to this sutra. Is wholeheartedly listening to the wind the same as listening to Lotus Sutra? Yes. What? Nothing. Nothing? Nothing? Can I go now? But very few people know how to wholeheartedly listen to the wind. Very few. It's very rare. Because most people, when they're listening to the wind, unless the wind's really, really, really violent, they don't notice their resistance.

[64:16]

They think, oh, how lovely. I'm not saying there's a problem, but they don't notice any resistance. It's very difficult to find wholeheartedness when there's no resistance because there is some resistance. Where is it? I have a room full of straw here. Would you please spin it into gold? I have a 16-foot piece of marble. Would you please sculpt it? And then he finds his resistance. Therefore, he finds his wholeheartedness. And we can feel the joy of the wholeheartedness which he found with his resistance to that marble and that marble's resistance to him.

[65:21]

We need the resistance to realize wholeheartedness. We need the half-heartedness. And we've got the half-heartedness. Where is it, ladies and gentlemen? Well, fear is one of the places that shows us where to find it. You know, we find the fear and there's some heartiness around there. And then... But if you can wholeheartedly listen to the wind, you are, you will hear the Lotus Sutra. When you're wholehearted, you will hear the Lotus Sutra. And when you hear the Lotus Sutra, you will become wholehearted. Keep listening to it. Because the wholeheartedness, the Lotus Sutra is saying, are you listening to me? Mm-hmm. Are you listening wholehearted? Mm-hmm. Well, how about this? Oh, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. So you're not wholehearted now? No, I'm not. Okay. Now you've got that.

[66:26]

Now what are you going to do? Are you going to stop listening and run away from your half-heartedness? Yes, I am. See you later. Kadagiri Roshi told this story one time about this guy, a friend of his he was training with. Would you come over here, please? A guy he really respected. They were in a monastery together, and they were doing what's called soji, cleaning the temple. And the teacher came along while they were cleaning the temple, And he mentioned to Kadagiri Roshi's Dharma brother, he said, you missed this piece of paper on the floor here. And the guy, you know, reached down, picked it up and went... throughout the window. And then he stopped practicing.

[67:30]

I mean, he left the monastery, stopped practicing as a priest, and it was an unhappy life that he led after that. He had some problems too, but he had the problems of picking up the stuff when the teacher said, pick it up. That's his problem. You're fortunate if you can find the resistance, if you can find the fear. The fear, the resistance, the half-hearted, you're fortunate if you... And this place is, you know, it's not... It's not that bad a place, is it? And we have pretty nice food, organic food, and We're trying to, like, not use a lot of pollutants here and poisonous cleaning equipment and, you know, we're trying to be, generally speaking, people are quite kind here. And it's a nice place. It's a beautiful place. I remember when I first came here, I looked down from the road, you know, when you first came, I looked down and said, we can't be here.

[68:35]

This is for some multimillionaire to live in this place, which is the case, you know. We can live in this place? And you come down in here and suddenly find resistance to it. I don't want to be here. I'm half-hearted about being in this place. And you know, actually, you knew it was heaven when you arrived, and now it's hell. What happened? Laughter Well, I just... When you get here. Yeah, you got it. So, this place is set up to help you find your resistance so you can find your wholeheartedness. But you know the resistance here. You kind of know it's not really... You don't really need to resist what's going on here. It's not that evil, generally. Sometimes it is, maybe, but... Basically, you know you could be wholehearted and be open to what's happening here. And yet you can't. I mean, yet we can't.

[69:41]

Well, there it is. That's the cutting edge of the bodhisattva path right there. We're like, you know. Yes? I think that for me, wholeheartedness itself is a slipperier concept than it is for a lot of people. So I was wondering if there's a difference between wholeheartedness and love. A difference? There's not a difference between wholeheartedness and great compassion, no. You can have compassion and have it not be wholehearted. Like, for example, you have compassion for some people. But not all people. That would be not wholehearted compassion, but great compassion, compassion for everybody with no limit on it. That's the same as wholeheartedness. It's nothing to do with liking people or disliking people. Some people are concerned that the Zen teacher likes them or doesn't like them.

[70:50]

It's a reasonable concern, but it's not really the point. The point is the Zen master is not supposed to like you or dislike you. They're supposed to love you. They're supposed to be wholehearted with you. And them disliking you is their opportunity, is another opportunity for their wholeheartedness. And also their liking you is an opportunity for their wholeheartedness too. namely that they don't indulge you or themselves in their liking of you. Their liking of you gets blown out of the water by the wholeheartedness. And their disliking of you. So be concerned whether the teacher is wholehearted, not whether they like you. But you say, well, I'm still concerned whether they like me. Well, fine. Be wholehearted about that concern. wholeheartedly be concerned with whether somebody likes you and you'll get over it. That kind of love.

[71:51]

Yeah. The get over it kind of love. Fully engage it. Good morning. Could you put that table over so we have a little bit more room to get in and out of that cage? Okay, so Dogen says that sitting upright in the correct zazen posture is itself complete realization. Is that right? I don't know. Maybe. Okay. Does he say that? He does? Okay, so, and you're saying today, well, what I've heard you say today is that reciting... Can you say again what Dogen said?

[72:57]

Dogen says... That sitting in an upright, correct, sovereign posture is itself complete realization. Is what? Is what? Complete realization? Yeah. I would say add in wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly. Okay. Okay. Add in wholeheartedly to the upright sitting? Or add in selflessly? Same thing? Then it's complete realization. But if you're half-heartedly sitting, if you're holding back, then that holding back obstructs the complete realization. Okay, and from what I'm hearing, you're also saying that this is in fact... an enactment of the Lotus Sutra, in a way. Yeah, yeah. So, and this is the same then, from what I'm hearing, as reciting, hearing, studying, performing the Lotus Sutra. It's the same as that, and those are the same as it.

[74:00]

So thinking historically of the two of the single practice schools that came out of the 12th century in Japan, the SGI and ours with the city, Why is it that SGI does their thing, quoting the title of the Lotus Sutra, and is it sufficient just to say the title of the Lotus Sutra? Is that reciting the Lotus Sutra? Do you have to get into the actual doctrine of the Lotus Sutra in order to have this realization? No. The Lotus Sutra says, if you recite the Lotus Sutra, it doesn't say, and if I say what I just said, At the place you recite the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha is born. That's an excerpt from the Lotus Sutra. As I said that, according to what I said, the place where I said that is now a Bodhimanda. But that would also apply if I said the name of the Lotus Sutra.

[75:03]

The place I say the name is a Bodhimanda. So reciting the Lotus Sutra is the same as saying the name of the Lotus Sutra? Take any part of the Lotus Sutra, take the word the from the Lotus Sutra. Just say the. But understand that you're quoting the Lotus Sutra and now that place you said that the, you have now just said the Buddha's teaching and the Lotus Sutra says when you say the Buddha's teaching, the Buddha is teaching where you said the Buddha's teaching. So how come we're not saying nam-myoho-renge-kyo every day? If that's the same as our single practice of sitting upright, why don't we close up shop and go to SGI? I think because it's a little bit more physical. It engages the body more. For some of us, the more athletic type of Buddhists like this, And I'm the athletic type of Buddhist. I was attracted to this because I could use my whole body to do it.

[76:08]

And I found it easy to, you might say, recite the Lotus Sutra. But when it came time to put my body on the line, I thought, oh, this is hard. How do these Zen people... to put their body right on that reciting the Lotus Sutra line. I'd like to learn that. And also, I like the stories about the Zen monks more than the stories about the reciters of the Lotus Sutra. So within the context of the things that one can do to affect complete realization, you have some preferences? No. That is what you just said. I didn't say preference. You said the preference. Well, no, you said, I like them better than. Did I say I like it better than? What? What? Oh, the story of the Zen monks. Yeah, I have preference for the stories, but not for the practices. But anyway, I'm just saying that the Zen master Dogen, when he was dying, he recited the Lotus Sutra when he was dying. That was the practice he did while he was dying.

[77:12]

After all those years practicing sitting and telling people just wholeheartedly sit and thus drop away body and mind and realize Buddhahood, he actually, the practice he did while he was dying was to recite this part of the Lotus Sutra that I've been telling you. He was walking around saying, at the place you recite the Lotus Sutra, this is a Bodhimanda. and at this place Buddha is born. He was going to parinirvana and he wanted Buddha to go with him and he wanted to go with Buddha. He was reciting that very, he was enacting the reality of him and Buddha being born together in his death room. And he named his death room the Lotus Sutra Hermitage. But there's not really a preference except I didn't even know about the school of reciting the Lotus Sutra. But I think if I had the two schools I probably would have gone by the stories of the people in the schools. And if I knew the stories of the people in Lotus Sutra, and they had good stories, and the Zen people had good stories, and if there were two temples in Minnesota that had both of those things, I might have gone to the Lotus Sutra one.

[78:22]

And if there was one that had the Lotus Sutra, and I knew some stories about the people who practiced the Lotus Sutra that I thought were stories of compassion, I would have gone to the Lotus Sutra school. But there was temples from neither in Minnesota. I heard about a Zen temple in San Francisco, so I went there. But basically, it's the same practice. You see, the problem I'm having is that it's taken me a while to get to the point where I'm comfortable with the idea that sitting upright in the zazen posture wholeheartedly is itself an enactment of full realization. And I now feel that. I mean, I'm starting to feel that, not just think it, but I actually feel that. But the idea of what the SGI people do I still have a lot of contempt for them. What's the SGI? The SGI is the Nam-myo-renge-kyo. Soka-gakai or Nichiren-shoshu. What's the I? International. International. They're actually two separate P's.

[79:25]

SGI and Nichiren. But anyways... These people, their school is about, they're about peace. They're Lotus Sutra peace people. And I really respect them. However, my karmic situation is that I came to Zen Center and got involved in the situation. And if I was just banging on the mokuyo saying, I think I would run into resistance there. And if I kept doing it, I would become wholehearted and fearless hitting the Mukugyo chanting that. That would be fine. Does it bother you that they don't agree with what we're doing as being valid? Does it bother me? If it did bother me, I would consider that another opportunity. If it did bother me and I wasn't wholehearted about that, then I would think this is another opportunity for bodhisattva growth.

[80:27]

And the Lotus Sutra, this is the way the Lotus Sutra talks. And I think this could be pointed out to them. And they might say, yeah, that's right. We consider you guys an opportunity for bodhisattva growth. We consider our resistance to you an opportunity for growth. They might agree with me completely. And also still resist this form of practice. But see the resistance as an opportunity. Because the Lotus Sutra says basically all these resistances are opportunity for Dharma teaching, for wholeheartedness. Now some people who chant the name of the Lotus Sutra don't read the whole Lotus Sutra, but many of them do read the Lotus Sutra. Many of them not only just chant the name of it, but they actually read it and they notice that it says in it, copy the whole Sutra, and they do copy it. Some of them. And the place they copy it in their house is they see that as a temple, and they see that as a place where the Buddha is born. And Dogen Zenji also says, in this lifetime, one of the things to do is make a copy of the Lotus Sutra.

[81:30]

And he said, I don't know if I'll be able to do that, but I want to do that. And carve a statue of a Buddha. So he said that he grew up in this school, of course, not Sukhagakaya or Nichiren, but he grew up in the Lotus Sutra world He loved the Lotus Sutra. It's in our list of the ten names of Buddha. There's actually eleven names there. He added the Lotus Sutra to the name of ten names of Buddha. He considers the Lotus Sutra Buddha. So, if anybody in any school of Buddhism is half-hearted about anything, I would say that's an opportunity for wholeheartedness. If anybody in the Buddhist community is half-hearted about anything, then they're afraid. This is the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. Wholeheartedness. One last question? Yeah. Listening to the wind wholeheartedly is equivalent to hearing the Lotus Sutra. I'm trying to understand what the quality is.

[82:36]

And it's equivalent to realizing Buddhahood. Listening to the wind wholeheartedly is equivalent to realizing Buddhahood. So is there some special quality to the Lotus Sutra so that if we take it out of the equation, we can say, well, this is not the Lotus Sutra? Because it sounds like anything... I missed something there. If I do anything wholeheartedly, it's equivalent of realizing the Lotus Sutra. Yeah. And so what is not the Lotus Sutra? Is there anything we can... I'm trying to get a fix on it. Is there any way to see it clearly by pointing to something and saying, well, this is not the Lotus Sutra? Sounds like everything's the Lotus Sutra. So what's special about the Lotus Sutra? How does it inform our... You know, it's interesting. We had a similar conversation at Tassajara back in... At that time, people said, what's the difference between a comic book and the Lotus Sutra? Right, exactly. Well, the comic book doesn't tell you the teaching of the one vehicle, and the Lotus Sutra does. So wholeheartedly reading... The comic book doesn't tell you all paths are the same path.

[83:40]

And I say, well, some pop comic books do tell you that. Well, when they do, they're quoting the Lotus Sutra. In fact... But the title of the Lotus Sutra doesn't tell you that either. The title doesn't, that's true. But you're saying that any and all words, whether or not it includes the instructions about it being... But if you receive the teaching that reciting the Lotus Sutra at that place, you've heard something besides the title at that time. If you've heard the teaching, reciting the teachings of the Lotus Sutra, including the title, at that place... the Buddha is born. If you've heard that teaching, you've heard more than the title. You've heard a very important part of the central part of the sutra. So you've got a teaching about what it means to practice the recitation of the name. And it's possible that somebody would recite the name and never look inside the sutra. But it seems to me that that's not going to happen. that everybody who recites the name long enough is going to start reading the Lotus Sutra and they're going to become Buddha.

[84:48]

Inside the Sutra it says you are all going to become Buddha anyway whether you recite the Lotus Sutra or not. or another way to say it, you're all going to become Buddha, whether you're reciting the Lotus Sutra now or not, you're going to become Buddha. And in your path to Buddhahood, you are going to study the Lotus Sutra, you are going to memorize the Lotus Sutra, you are going to teach the Lotus Sutra, you're going to dramatize and make t-shirts out of the Lotus Sutra. That's what the Lotus Sutra is saying. If a comic book says the same thing, well, it's saying literally the same thing as the Lotus Sutra. But comic books do not usually teach that we're all practicing together on the same path, you know, for the same purpose. They don't usually teach that. When they do teach that, that's basically the same message as the Lotus Sutra. And the Lotus Sutra comes from a time in human history when that teaching was first emerging in the world. And it also kind of came out around Palestine around the same time. The teaching that we're all working together here to realize peace and compassion in this world.

[85:53]

But the Lotus Sutra is the thing that's saying that all these different paths are really the same path because they're all empty. And the reason they're empty is because they're dependently co-arising. That's the teaching of the Lotus Sutra. So the Lotus Sutra is saying that about the comic books, but the comic books are not saying that about each other. And the Lotus Sutra is also saying that there's a correct teaching and an incorrect teaching. The teaching that things have substance is incorrect. And it says it vehemently. But it also says the people who are on the wrong path are on the same path as those who are on the right path. But they don't practice it. They're not practicing the path. They're not working their little tootsies on the path. So they don't realize it, and they're in big trouble, and we should help them. Otherwise, there's gonna be a lot of violence. so there's a vehemence in the Lotus Sutra of it's very important to teach people wholeheartedness because if they don't have it we're going to have violence in this world but anyway we do have violence in this world so that's part of what we Lotus Sutra people have to face

[87:08]

is that people are going to resist us and this isn't something we should... and there's encouragements for what to do when people start resisting you about how to be kind to them and patient with them and realize that they're actually stimulating your bodhisattvic growth. That's the Lotus Sutra message which totally includes all the people who resist the Lotus Sutra which includes you having a problem with them and Anil having a problem with them and me having a problem with them. We're all perfect fodder for the Lotus Sutra. And Lotus Sutra is saying, this is the kind of sutra that's Buddhism. And I agree. A sutra which doesn't respect all these people, I don't think that's really a Buddhist teaching. I think the Buddhist teaching, because the Buddhist teaching is about helping others. Is others the same as all beings? Yeah, others with no limit. So others equals all beings? Yeah. So that would include oneself? Yes, it includes you.

[88:10]

I just want to make sure I was on board. Yes, you're a registered, what are the people on the ship called? Passenger. Passenger, you're a registered passenger. Passenger. And I'd like to come back to the circle. Yes. So you said if there's half-heartedness. I said what? If there's half-heartedness. If there's half-heartedness, yes. And there's a sign of fear and violence can occur, which for me would be there's a possibility of the precept being violated and occurring. Correct. Yes. In Gaia House in England, in August, you mentioned an old practice of every, I think you said every full moon and every dark moon, the Sangha would come together and there'd be confession. And so last full moon, I was waiting for that to happen.

[89:15]

And maybe I missed it, but... We did. We did. Was it all an ancient twisted karma? all my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed. The way you presented it in England was that people actually came forth and confessed and then said how it related. In the early Sangha, they would mention specific infractions. In this, we do a general thing. And so in Zen, and I think also at the time of the Buddha, they would mention these things at the ceremony. And sometimes if you observe someone do something and you thought it was an infraction and they didn't say so, you could say, did you remember the, you know, you could actually ask someone about something they did also. But not everybody mentioned every shortcoming that they did during the whole month or half month. Your life session. Huh? Your life session. Or it depends on the group. Some groups... maybe we did go all night, you know, because we had a group of monks who were particularly meticulous about noticing all the little slight things, and so we went all night in some cases.

[90:25]

But some other people, you know, just generally thought, you know, I don't have to say anything. I think everybody knows that I'd like really bad. So the fact that I'm attending this maybe is enough. Everybody knows that I'm on probation and maybe kicked out of the Sangha any minute. But also in the time of the Buddha, people would come and make individual confessions, too. But we don't usually do it on the Bodhisattva ceremony, the individual ones. But in these sessions, people, in some of our sessions, people sometimes make individual ones. But we don't do the individual particularities. I think people who do this ceremony do notice sometimes when they're saying, oh, my ancient twisted karma, or not even just then, but when they're taking refuge in the bodhisattvas, while they're bowing and taking refuge, sometimes shortcomings during the recent time emerge in the mind.

[91:27]

And you think of things, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, while you're bowing. So it isn't formally expressed or literally expressed, but it is going on, and it's formally expressed in the ritual manner of all my ancient wisdom. I just thought the old way was a good chance for all-heartedness. The old way. And also to see independent co-rising. I agree, and that's part of what Doksan offers the opportunity. People do come and confess in Doksan, And that is an opportunity for wholeheartedness, definitely. Oftentimes when people confess, that really helps them be wholehearted. And sometimes people even come in and say to me stuff like, I made a little mistake. And I say, well, why say little? I might say, why say little? And then they say, I made a mistake. And they feel the difference between saying, I made a little mistake and I made a mistake. It feels different.

[92:28]

Like sometimes when people are late, they come and say, sorry, I'm slightly late. Why are you saying slightly? It's less wholehearted to say I'm late than to say I'm slightly late. So part of the confession process is that then you get some reflection about that although you're confessing and that's the step towards wholeheartedness, you could be more wholehearted in the confession. Like say the next part of the sentence, for example, which you abbreviated your shortcoming because you know what it meant. you know that this short statement stood for this longer statement. And sometimes people give me the abbreviated version, and I can't see what the problem is. And I tell them, and then they give me the full version. I go, oh, wow. I don't mean to say, oh, wow. But anyway, so I think it's partly the private complement to it as part of the process, too.

[93:33]

Okay. I'll try to make that part of my, and I fully follow. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. I made a mistake. You made a mistake? I've made the same mistake many times in my life about the topic, one of the topics you're talking about today, about not staying with something when I felt resistance. I've been one of those people who feels resistance, goes, ooh, this isn't safe, and I go somewhere else. Me too. I'm very good at it. Maybe you are too. And when you talk about it, I get really terrified.

[94:38]

Because... When I talk about what? When you talk about that process, for example, with the Lotus Sutra of resistance appearing and that being a gift and an invitation to stay with something rather than to turn away. When you talk about that, I get terrified. And then when the terror comes, you have some resistance to the terror? Not so much, which is okay. If you wholeheartedly feel the terror, then that will help you do the thing that you're afraid of doing as a basic principle. If you hear about doing something and you're afraid and you face the fear of it and settle with the fear of it, then you'll be able to do it. Like Cairo walking. So the question then is, when you're talking about something that isn't a path, let's say a relationship, okay?

[95:41]

Something that isn't what? That isn't, you were using the example of grief. There is no such thing. As something that isn't a path. What? There's no such thing. Good. Okay, but... I agree. Okay. But my question is about... When in the thinking of leaving something, there is occasionally we choose to leave things. And in trusting or trying to trust that in oneself, the instinct to leave something. You know the theme I'm talking about here is the... When you say instinct, again... I hear that as habitual, an adaptation rather than a free action.

[96:42]

That's my question. Yeah, that's it. When you're leaving based on habit rather than on full, spontaneous wholeheartedness, then that kind of leaving is verboten. Good. Not really, but people go ahead and do it. Anyways, it's foreboding for Buddhas. Buddhas do not act unwholeheartedly. So Buddhas leave situations. They leave the zendo. They leave the toilet. They leave their community. They leave the world. They leave various places, but they do it wholeheartedly. So the basic principle is you cannot leave unless you leave wholeheartedly. So if you're in a terrible situation, the Buddha cannot leave until she leaves wholeheartedly. But you can leave when you, if you wholeheartedly leave, you can leave any time you want.

[97:47]

Wholeheartedness is your license to leave. And so I know people are in terrible situations, like, for example, being a Tassajara in a practice period, or being in a Green Gulch practice period. People get in these terrible, hellish situations, and they often come to me and they say something like, I want to leave, or I am leaving. And, you know, it's not exactly asking for my permission, but maybe asking me for my support. And I say, if you're completely settled here, and you are completely wholehearted about being here, and you're completely wholehearted about leaving, then great. But if you go over that hill, if you're half-hearted about being here, and half-hearted about going, and you get over the other side of the hill, you can just continue to be half-hearted. And so far, I've mentioned this story, only twice have people come back to me Out of quite a few examples, only twice have people come back to me and said, I'm wholeheartedly here and I wholeheartedly want to go.

[98:57]

Most either became wholeheartedly at Tassar or at Green Gulch or at City Center or whatever, or at the retreat in Gaia House or wherever. It happens all over the world. People think, I can't stand being here. Well, if you want to go, you can go if you wholeheartedly want to go, and also if you're wholeheartedly here, and from wholeheartedly being here you want to go, great. Only twice have they come back. And the person came, and one of them, I remember what the reason was, she came back, she said, I'm totally here, I'm wholeheartedly here, and I wholeheartedly want to leave. I want to do something other than being in this monastery, even though I'm wholeheartedly here. Usually when they get to wholeheartedness, they're so happy they just forget what it was all about. Or they didn't get there and they didn't come back because they didn't get to the place I told them was their license to leave. I don't know. But the person who left, she wrote back a week later and told me that she was pregnant. That's what she wanted to do.

[100:02]

And she didn't know it. but that's what she wanted to go do. Her body was telling her, get out of here and go find a place to have this kid. And she found out what it was. So that's basically it. And I do that when people come and say, I want to leave. I say, well, what do you want to do? And if they would tell me, I say, are you wholehearted about that? Yeah. And I would say, well, no, no, I'll be wholeheartedly here and then go. Why do you have to be wholeheartedly here first? Why can't you just wholeheartedly now? Because if you're not wholeheartedly here, with your feet here, then from this unwholeheartedness you step into another unwholeheartedness. So it's physically not possible to be wholehearted about wanting to be somewhere else if you're not also wholehearted about being... Basically, you know, this is a story, right? But basically, if somebody, in my experience, if somebody's standing here half-heartedly and then they go over a few feet away, they're half-hearted that place too, usually.

[101:02]

Unless somebody helps them on the way, there's a little assistant on the way to sort of jog them or stimulate them into wholeheartedness. But... Usually they don't pick it up. If you're not present, usually you don't learn to be present when you're running away from not being present. Usually it makes it worse. Usually. That's my experience. Usually. On the other hand, if the person's not here, agitated, not accepting being here, and they want to go over there because they think they'll be able to escape the pain of not being here by going someplace else, get that? the pain of not being here. I think if I went someplace else, I wouldn't be able to be there. Usually if they, in my experience, if they finally say, okay, I'll be here, then they sometimes still go. But usually they don't. Usually they say, oh God, I'm so glad to be here now.

[102:04]

Finally I've accepted. But sometimes they say, now I'm going to go and see if I can do it over here now. Yeah, I can do it here too. I can try it over here. Oh, this is great. Being here. I can do it down here. You say, what if somebody is in extreme pain and they can't stand to be there and they think if you reduce the pain they could be there more? So they go and you reduce the pain and they say, well, now I can be here. Okay, fine. Can I turn the pain back up just to make sure you can be there? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. You turn it back up. Oh, I can be here now. Okay, good. But sometimes they think they can be there, but really they just distracted themselves from their resistance. But still I often say to people, I'd rather have you Sometimes I say I'd rather have you lighten up a little bit and have less pain if you can do that so that you can continue rather than push yourself so hard into continually not being here that you just give up entirely.

[103:16]

I sometimes make that compromise with myself and with others. But if I'm in pain sitting, for example, I try before I change my posture to be in the pain which I'm in now and then change my posture. I completely be here, okay, and now uncross my legs. I try to do that. And then be in the situation with my legs uncrossed and maybe somewhat less pain, but not feel like I ran away from my life to the good over there. And I told that story many times when I was in my early days of sitting with Suzuki Roshi. I said to him, if I sit in full lotus after a while, you know, I just, the pain is like screaming. I can't follow my breathing or anything like that. I just like totally, just, all I can think about is like trying to get away from this pain and the screaming of it.

[104:19]

But if I sit in half lotus, I can sit quite still and and concentrated my breathing. And he said, oh, well, maybe full lotus is good for you. That's what he said to me. I don't say that to you, but if somebody asked me, can I get out of here, I would still say, well, can we be here first before you go someplace else and see if when you get here you want to go? And I'm right here with you and we can look at that. But when I'm not around, I don't necessarily, I think they need some guidance maybe so they don't push too hard. I don't want people to push themselves too hard and lean into the pain. Because that's not being there either. To be upright with it like we're talking about. That's what it's like to really be there. I've been married for 34 years.

[105:26]

And also, somebody's been married to me for 34 years. Now, That's difficult to be married to me for 34 years. That person could have thought, geez, I'd like to be someplace else. Yes? I wanted to ask you about... this little tricky spot with wholeheartedness, when we can fool ourselves, maybe, into thinking, well, I know from my experience, thinking, oh, wholeheartedness, there's this part of my mind that sort of turns that sometimes into indulgence or like wanting to indulge in the unwholeheartedness. Yeah, sure.

[106:33]

Sometimes it's like a resistance to, like there's a fear if I'm wholehearted with the unwholeheartedness, then it's like giving it free reign. And also there's this interesting... Excuse me, I missed him now. There's some sense of wholeheartedness that occurs. Did you say? And then there's this thing of somehow wanting to be unwholehearted. There's two responses that sometimes I experience. One is that I'm afraid if I'm wholehearted with... Is this when you are wholehearted or when you're contemplating? When I'm contemplating. Okay, you're contemplating. When I'm contemplating being wholehearted with my unwholeheartedness. With your unwholeheartedness. Yes, when I'm contemplating being wholehearted, there's this fear that comes up that, oh, I'm dealing at free reign, it's just going to run amok. So who was up here saying that? Somebody came up and said basically the same thing about fear. One of the early people. Yeah. You think about, but that's like if you lean into the, what do you call it, the half-heartedness.

[107:36]

That's not what I mean by being wholehearted with it. It's not leaning into it. It's being upright, alert, and relaxed with it. then you won't wallow in it and give it free rein. You give it free rein, yes, you give it free rein within a wrecked spine. You're like, okay, you're sitting at the edge of the field where the half-heartedness is running around, but you're very alert and relaxed and present with it. That's the way you give it full rein. You don't give it full rein like, It's like, okay, you're here, the half-heartedness is like this, the half-heartedness is like this, and I say, Chris, what's the half-heartedness doing like that right now? You say, well, now it's doing this. How about now, Chris? Now it's doing that. You're the expert on what it's doing, this wholehearted observation that you know about it.

[108:41]

So the half-heartedness is kind of, I ask the half-heartedness, what are you doing? Huh? What do you want? I don't know. I want to get out of here. Are you alive? I hadn't noticed. Get out of my face. It's frightened. It's on the verge of violence. Now, being wholehearted about that is present, is unfrightened of the half-heartedness, but not leaning into it, not leaning away from it, not leaning into it, not liking it, not disliking it, So you give it, you take the reins off it, but you're right with it all the time. It's like you're riding it horseback, bareback. So the leaning, the sort of fear of like, if I take the reins off, it's going to get out of control, is the leaning away, and then the indulgence is leaning forward. The fear, again, the fear is the flower of the half-heartedness. So the fear and the half-heartedness are together. So when you start to contemplate half-heartedness, you notice there's fear in the neighborhood.

[109:46]

If you start contemplating fear, you start to notice there's half-heartedness in the neighborhood. So you've got to be wholehearted and fearless with the fear and the half-heartedness. And it won't get out of hand. It never was in hand. And you can face that then. So maybe a good question to ask oneself when they're feeling half-hearted is, what do you fear? Yeah, and vice versa. When you're afraid, what are you half-hearted about? Like, oh, I have cancer and I'm afraid. I'm half-hearted about cancer. That's an easy one maybe for a lot of people. But look, there's half-heartedness when there's fear. There's less than completely giving everything to the situation. But again, giving everything doesn't mean leaning into it, doesn't mean liking it.

[110:48]

It means upright, flexible, alert, warm, gracious presence. And that's not indulging it or controlling it. It's the medicine for it. Can you clarify once and for all, for everybody in this room, does wholeheartedness have signs and does half-heartedness have signs? Signs that you can recognize it with some specific sign. Can you see it? It doesn't have fixed signs. I asked if whole-heartedness has signs or if half-heartedness has signs or not.

[111:58]

You can recognize it with some... It doesn't have fixed signs, no, but it does have signs, otherwise you can't practice with it. So, but not fixed. For example, one of the signs that I've been mentioning of half-heartedness is fear. But fear doesn't have fixed signs either. But you have a sense of fear. Somehow you have a sense that this thing has the signs of fear. I'm saying, well, this is probably half-heartedness is nearby. And how do you be wholehearted with half-heartedness? Well, in the relaxation and playfulness of being with it, there's no set way of being there. So in some sense, it may be easier to specify the signs of fear and half-heartedness than wholeheartedness. Because wholeheartedness is totally flexible. And it's just a way of being with whatever version of half-heartedness is there.

[113:02]

So in some sense half-heartedness is more like we think something does have a sign. That's part of, you know, we think something does have a fixed sign. We're deluded in this way and because of that we're having trouble giving ourselves to it. Like the lotus root appearing this way. And fear has these qualities. But fearlessness doesn't have any particular, any fixed sign, and wholeheartedness doesn't either. How about joy? Hmm? How about joy? I don't think it has any fixed sign. But different types of misery, when you think that things do have, when you think that this misery has this sign, then that goes with being miserable. But not being able to find the sign of a thing goes with being free. And understanding the causation of things goes with realizing that they don't have fixed signs.

[114:10]

Does that settle it once and for all? So it sounds like not seeing is not so bad. Sounds like not seeing is not so bad? Yeah, it sounds like it seems to be the perfect way of seeing things is not seeing. Seeing, not seeing. But seeing, not seeing? But it's not just not seeing, but also understanding that it cannot be seen. That finishes the work. Oh, that what you see is not it. That's good too. That's one way to not see is to see that what you see is not it. It's a kind of not seeing. It's understanding not seeing. That also includes if you have a story about wholeheartedness. It also includes your stories of wholeheartedness?

[115:17]

Yeah. Yeah, it does. I think my wholeheartedness about this expression got me still with a little anxiety about not being able to give it. So it might not be as wholehearted as I would like. But now that I'm here, maybe that will last. I would like to tell a little story about something that happened this morning. And I'll end with the confession part. Can you hear her? That's the problem. Generally, people can hear me. sometimes I have conversations in silent time that begin in a whisper that are related to necessary work or communications as you know and as soon as the whispering turns into a voice the voices collectively and especially my voice get louder and

[116:34]

And I've been reminded of this frequently in the last few days, but especially this morning. Some people in Cloud Hall were attempting to rest, and I was reminded that my voice was disturbing them, and I'm very sorry for that. to anyone who made that, experienced that today or any other day. And then, having made the apology that comes from the end of it, I would like to tell the story at the beginning of that. Oh, could I say something? If I may, yes. When Catherine was my assistant, she got me an answering machine and she recorded the message on it. It was very clear. And then I tried to record a message on it, but it didn't pick my voice up. I mean, it picked my voice up, but my voice was really quiet. So then I had her come back and make the announcement again. So your voice is really... Sometimes even when I whisper, people can hear me. Yeah. And people sometimes... How far back did you hear me say that?

[117:38]

No. See, look, I was... I can't help it. I'm really sorry. One time Robert Thurman was here translating for Tara Toko and people were kind of like a little upset with how loud he talked. You know, his translations were Tara Toko would go talk like this and Bob Thurman would... People say he's talking too loud, and Tartukla said, a loud voice is a result of good karma. There's a lot of painful feelings associated with that true karma. It's good karma to be able to get all these painful feelings. So now, if that's all right, I'd like to tell the story from this morning. Okay. Okay. So something happened in the zendo, which was a misunderstanding. And as a consequence of this misunderstanding, when we were chanting the repentance verse, I started to cry.

[118:41]

And when we were bowing and chanting the refuges, I lost my voice altogether and had an enormous determination to pick up my Zagu and leave and just, like, walk out and there'd be no Eno. And then I had a wholehearted sense that I really didn't want to do it. Well, not even that, just a wholehearted determination to stay and to continue bowing and taking refuge. continue with service and continue in the room, which, you know, all of which was quite wonderful as time unfolded. We had quite a lively experience in Zendo this morning, I think. And then we had lunch, I mean breakfast, and then we were carrying on the various consequences of things. And ultimately I was... confessing that very story to somebody, and it became this thing that probably many people heard already, though I told them at this time.

[119:45]

But it seemed as we were talking about this that I felt... that there was something illustrative in it, in that my impulse frequently, if something has struck a nerve to my old karmic afflictions, such as having a misunderstanding that makes me think like I must be, either I'm crazy or they're doing something crazy to me, and then it touches this old affliction in pain. But when I experience something like that, my whole being wants to run. My whole being wants to run. And then I have this, because I'm saying karmic verses and refuge verses, I have a whole other whole being that is willing to stay. And it's only because of knowing that that whole being that wants to run, that feels like it's absolutely true, knowing that it's not, is what allows the being that will repent and take refuge to stay and continue.

[120:59]

I'm glad to see that only about three people wanted more zazen. So I'm happy that you wanted more zazen. That's great. And I'm happy that quite a few of you feel like there's enough. And the people who think that's too much, please come and see me. But I'm glad most, seems like most people feel like there's been enough. I'm not saying, I didn't ask if you think there's the right amount, but just asked if there's enough. So, I'm trying to balance the amount of zazen with the classes, because, as you know, the morning we don't have class, you get four periods after breakfast. But today there's not so many periods after breakfast, so I hope that's okay. But anyway, further feedback.

[122:18]

We have a few more days before Sashin. Sashin, it's not so much flexibility about how much the Zazen schedule is not so flexible. So, unusually, it could be though. So if you really want more Zazen, even during Sashin, let me know. And if you like more classes or less classes between now and Sashin, I appreciate feedback in scheduling the classes. Could you ask that question here? You asked whether there was enough zazen, but you didn't ask, are there enough classes? Oh, I didn't ask that. Is there enough classes? No. So there's not enough classes, but there is enough zazen? For most people? Yes. So for the people who don't have enough zazen, is there enough classes?

[123:22]

Maybe everyone will be into this, I don't know. So I've heard that we're going to flip the last day off, put the day on, so people can watch the inauguration, right? Can we have a six-day sashin? and then have a whole bunch of classes before that? Is anybody else into that? No. Okay. So we're going to have a day off, a regular day, and then a five-day sesshin, right? That's the current plan? Yeah. And you're wondering could we have a day off and then just sesshin? Well... I have assistance the day before and the day after. I will assist you. Well, on the day off I can assist you. How many people would like to have a six-day sesshin? And how many people would like to have a five-day session? I think the six-day session was very close, wasn't it? No. There were a bunch of absentee homes. What about the people that are coming just for session?

[124:26]

Oh, yeah. I could just let them know it's a day earlier. Can they come a day later? That's the question. We just need to know what to tell them. But then you'll be able to have class on that day. We'll have a lecture then. That's true. We'll have a lecture. Can I run away? How about just leaving everything the way it is and just let the people want to see inauguration? It's already been changed. They already took a day of work to change it. It's already changed. Six days of shame, is that it? No. The people who would like six days, count off, okay? One. Twenty-six.

[126:05]

Twenty-two or twenty-three, anyway. Can you count? Can Anil just count her hands? Here was a lot more hands. Five, Danny? Some people aren't here. Should we finish the count before the recount or do I need to recount the first one? Could you describe a sashin schedule? It's a really easy sashin. It's real comfortable and kind of like going on vacation to a beautiful valley by the ocean in California. Delicious vegetarian meals. Very long breaks after those meals.

[127:06]

Silence. Wholeheartedness. See you later. So I don't know what to do about this situation. I don't know if we should get the count of the people who want five-day or not. Yes? I didn't come here expecting this to be a democracy. And so I think that may be why I'm confused. I'm suddenly getting a wonderful appreciation for forms, so I know what to do and don't have to think about it. But we also have an electoral college here. So after the popular vote occurs, there's the electors representing different states of Green Gulch.

[128:34]

Well, we could have six days of session if we could have a day and a half off instead of a day off. Yeah. We're not more classes. Well, is there anything else you'd like to talk about today? I just want to say to people that every change in the schedule requires a tremendous amount of work. A lot of it on the part of the ENO. So Gringotts is a very, you know, sometimes it may actually even feel like things are just sliding along really nicely. The meals appear on time, dishes get washed, the window bell rings. But all of that requires a tremendous amount of effort and organization with this many people to make it happen.

[129:47]

So to make a change, the change doesn't just happen, but someone has to organize that change. So this change might, if we do a change, it might be fairly easy. I'm not sure, but I think that it would be good to have senior staff look at it I don't know what plans people have in terms of the maintenance of the place and, you know, just all these things, town trips, deliveries, meal preparation, who is scheduled to work where, when, and just so that that would need to be looked at. Any other offerings this morning? I'd like to thank Anil for always bringing up kind of difficult points.

[130:52]

Go ahead, thank him. Okay, well, thank you very much. May our intention equally extend to every human place. May the true man love us way.

[131:26]

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