about one of those debates which I wrote for a minute, and I'm so sorry. I think at the beginning of our discussions I mentioned something about kind of an overview of practice in terms of the close relationship between love and compassion and the realization of selflessness.

[01:18]

that the realization of selflessness is based in compassion. Did I say something like that at the beginning? You're not sure, Max? Yeah. Well, thanks for admitting that. I just thought I'd go back then to sort of the basics, and that is that the middle way is selflessness. is emptiness, and it's also the teachings about emptiness, or the description of itself.

[02:38]

the point of Buddhadharma is, in a sense, the middle way, but it's a middle way that has at its core love. So the root of the middle way is love, but When we first start practicing our love, it's not necessarily with the realization of the middle way, or our love is not necessarily united with understanding of selflessness. So we based on we enter into practices to realize selflessness, those practices of compassion come along with the practices intended to realize selflessness.

[03:54]

Our compassion is to some extent impure or is affected by our lack of realization. And I kind of rushed into the discussion of the Middle Way, or the teaching of the Middle Way, to ascertain whether anybody here was interested in studying them, whether the study of the Middle Way was something that was apropos of your motivations. But I did that partly because if I If I wait for everybody to be ready to study the Middle Way, the practice period might be over before everybody more wanted to.

[05:08]

So, I'm introducing you to these teachings right off, and so they're there for you to chant in service. I'm introducing you to these teachings about selflessness. But I don't know if you have the aspiration to realize what that middle way is about. But I just want to remind you that the motivation to realize Buddhahood is the motivation that goes with those teachings. And I would guess that not all of you have accessed that aspiration, the aspiration to attain perfect enlightenment in order to do these things.

[06:21]

But today I'm going back to mention that that is sort of the basic, the basis of the Middle Way. and the middle way aspiration and brings it to completion it would be to spend the whole practice period just developing our motivation, just developing our appreciation for the aspiration for the welfare of all beings, and then spend some other practice period on studies of the middle way.

[07:31]

But I was hoping to actually just dive into the study of the mental way. So that's what we're doing. But this approach has the, in a sense, a defect of us not necessarily clarifying our motivation before we started. And I don't know if I mentioned, I think I did the other day, that in the city center, in a sitting group, we spent about a year working on motivation before starting these teachings on selflessness. Is that clear?

[08:52]

Any questions about that or comments? Yes? Is it the same thing as intention, basically? Motivation, intention? Aspiration? So, do you aspire to attain complete, authentic, unsurpassed enlightenment to help all beings to come free of suffering? And that motivation not only is appropriate to the Middle Way, because the Middle Way is the way to realize that Buddhahood But it, you know, it has the germinating strength and energy just to initiate and vitalize that long process of practice.

[09:57]

Yes? Encourage the birth of it, or encourage the growth of it? Well, encouraging the... You know, there's this book called Guided Bodhisattva's Way of Life, and the first part is lots of verses of praise of the great virtue of the aspirant enlightenment for the sake of all beings. And also in Dogen, there's a number of places where he talks about, for example, in Gakudoyo Jinshu and Shinjin Gakudo, there's a discussion of

[11:00]

the arising and the thought of enlightenment. And also, there's a fascicle called khotsubhadaishyam. And there's another fascicle called, which means getting rise to the bodhi mind. So, there's encouragements there. And then, once the thought of enlightenment is aroused, then practicing the paramitas keeps it going. But in particular, once it's aroused, how we then enter into the practice of the meditation practice of bodhisattva that also protects it and sustains it. Did you get those places? Hmm? Hmm? So those are not only ways to help protect the aspiration for enlightenment, but they're also ways to bring it to maturity.

[12:24]

Bring it to maturity by deeply understanding the teachings. What? The name of the book The first one? It's called Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life by Shantideva The first part Is it the Dogen ones? They both have sections on the arising of the thought. And there's a chapter on the arising of the thought of enlightenment. I'm also, at the end of every one of our classes, we chant the... So, every time you chant that vow, that's an opportunity to give rise to the vow which you're chanting.

[13:52]

And there's a proposal from people like Dogen that when you say sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them, when you display that behavior with your voice and your body, that the Buddha that you're aspiring to become responds to you at that time. And that in that meeting between, interaction between your display and the recognition of your display, in that medium, the actual, that's where the actual thought of enlightenment lives. Thought of enlightenment isn't just that, you know, what you're doing, it isn't what Buddha's doing, it's what's born in that interaction.

[14:59]

You chant the bodhisattva vows, the opportunities created. So if you went around all day long chanting that vow, you would be displaying that vow and the Buddha would be responding to you in that interaction again and again there. Then if you were constantly practicing the perfections at the same time, you would be protecting the vow that was being generated in that context. Now these teachings on the Middle Way are on the airwaves

[16:03]

and on the paper waves. And so you're taking them in at the level of your eyes and your ears. Your mind is processing them on some level. You could have insight on that level. And then at some point, maybe even already, you're starting to think about these teachings and see how they apply to your your own experience. Has that happened to anybody yet, by the way? One person, two, six, nine, fourteen. So those two phases can go on simultaneously, of course, that you can be listening and understanding and thinking about it. And then the other level is the level at which the teachings don't sink into your into your being and yet you make you make your body and mind a calm quiet place or you find a calm quiet place and you take care of that calm quiet place so that these teachings can you know take root in your flesh

[17:28]

So that's the samatha side of the bodhisattva practice. And of course, if one had been able to really become quiet and still, and these teachings were settling there, then one could also practice insight. So then one could look at these teachings and probe them, inquire into, you know, all the different aspects, and also inquire into the ultimate aspects of these teachings. So, in this, in this, uh, Sambhya Nirmacana Sutra, in the chapter on, uh, on the Shantan Vipassana, Maitreya asked the Buddha, um, Bhagavan, abiding in what and depending on what, do bodhisattvas in the great vehicle cultivate samatha and vipassana?

[18:38]

And the Bhagavan, the Buddha, replied, Maitreya, abiding in and depending upon an unwavering resolution to expound the doctrinal teachings and to become unsurpassably, perfectly enlightened, bodhisattvas cultivate samatha and vipassana. So, of course, people can practice Samatha and Vipassana on a different basis. This is Bodhisattva. Depending on what and abiding in what the Bodhisattvas practice. Bodhisattvas are beings that have this aspiration. So, that is the basis for their practice of these meditations. Once again, I'm saying that without being grounded in this kind of aspiration, in this vow, these practices don't have their feet on the ground.

[20:48]

So I guess you'll just have to keep checking on yourself. If you're doing these practices or studying these teachings, on what level of study are you doing? Check yourself. And if you're doing any of the levels, but particularly the level of the meditational level, this bodhisattva aspiration, this aspiration to realize enlightenment for the world. Just check on yourself. If you don't, then realize that there's some kind of contradiction there and you need to get yourself grounded motivationally. before you start again.

[21:50]

Keep going back to the root on a regular basis in your practice. It is possible, I think, from what I can tell, to study these teachings on emptiness, on the middle way. Just at the level of you know, hearing and seeing, and even on the level of thinking, I think, without even being a Buddhist. So we seem to have some scholars who are studying Buddhism. and seem to understand these teachings and rightfully so, but are not necessarily themselves bodhisattvas. They haven't necessarily made this vow, don't necessarily have these motivations, and don't do these meditations which bring these teachings into their bodies.

[22:52]

And some of them actually study more than most of us, And, you know, basically it's not possible to do the meditations. Studies have led them to that conclusion. In the meditation practice, in the meditational aspect of studying the teachings, there is a posture that's recommended. And posture is recommended, you can find it in Indian, Sanskrit,

[24:03]

Sanskrit sutras. I don't know if there's any Pali sutras on Mahayana Buddhism, but anyway, in Sanskrit sutras you can find descriptions of the body posture for the practice. Also in Mahayana commentaries, there's descriptions of the body posture. And in Chinese descriptions of a practicing Samatha Vipassana, There's descriptions of the body posture. And almost all these body postures are very similar for all the different sutras and commentaries in India, Tibet, China. And in the Zen texts, also the meditation for Zen meditation is also basically the same. So here's an example of a description for the meditating with the appropriate fitness for Samatha.

[25:22]

This is Tsongkhapa talking about what's recommended in an Indian text, which we talked about last practice period, called Bhavana Kraman by Kamala Shila. And there's a little misprint here. It says, Bhavana Kraman on a very soft and comfortable cushion. That's not a misprint. According to the Bhagavad Gita, on a very soft and comfortable cushion, your posture should be very soft and comfortable. Dougie says, at the site, at your sitting place, spread out thick matting and put a cushion on top of it.

[26:35]

He didn't say very soft and comfortable. Thick. Thick mat. And then put a cushion on top of it. So, anyway, very comfortable. And your posture should have eight qualities. The legs should be either in the full lotus or half lotus. And in the different texts that I've studied in Indian and Chinese texts, sometimes they say, you know, to have the left leg on top is the right leg on top. That's the only difference I've found. But anyway, here it says either in the full lotus or half lotus position in this Indian text. And that's, of course, what Dogen says, too. It's either in the full lotus or half lotus position. They didn't mention there's other postures.

[27:39]

We have now expanded the possibilities. Number two, the eyes should be directed over the tip of the nose. what the Indian text says, without being either wide open or closed. The body should sit straight and erect without either bent, without being either bent or crooked. And then it says with mindfulness on inward. The shoulders should be even and The head should be positioned without tilting down, up, or to one side. And the nose should be directly in line above the navel. The teeth and lips should be natural.

[28:41]

The tongue should touch the palate. And the respiration should be inaudible. Dogen also says this, if you breathe quietly. And some other places he says you should be able to hear your breath. Here it says the breath should be inaudible, not violent or agitated. Rather, it should by all means proceed slowly, effortless, without sensing inhalation or exhalation. to this text. Thus, practice at the outset with the eight aspects of posture and especially with the breath flowing quietly as explained. Any questions about the posture?

[29:52]

Yes? How do you feel about CESA? How do I feel about it? How do I feel about Seiza? You mean if I could sit either way, how would I feel about the two different postures? Yeah, that and more specifically what do you experience about the Seiza posture? I think the Seiza posture isn't as stable from right and left. And that's one of the main things. The cross-legged posture is very stable. And also, by putting your foot up on your thigh, it makes it easier. Well, actually, I think it's pretty easy to keep your lower back straight in Seiza, too. So I think that... The main advantage of cross-legged over is right-left stability.

[31:02]

For me, it's my experience. The main advantage of the lotus posture over other kinds of cross-legged positions is that you have your feet up on your thighs, which presses down your thighs and makes it easier to hold the pelvis erect. and also blocks the legs together in a way that makes the body feel very secure and eventually comfortable. Are there any questions about the posture? Yes? Should your feet, once you're in full lunge, should your feet not extend to your thighs? Should they just stay there? Should your feet not extend to your thighs? Yeah, because sometimes when I'm sitting, where does my feet go? Go where? They go beyond your thighs. Yeah. Well, I think in a certain way, although it's not too pretty, I think for me the best lotus posture is the feet actually go past the thigh.

[32:15]

They kind of stick out beyond the thigh. If they're really up high, close to the groin. That's really the best, for me, the best posture, although usually I don't get them all the way up there. Sometimes during sashin, they gradually move more and more into that position so that the feet are actually extending beyond the outer part of the thigh. So actually that is, I think, the ideal position. But it doesn't look so pretty, so most Buddhist statues don't have the feet sticking out there. But if you look at pictures of yogis sitting with a lotus, demonstrating the posture, oftentimes feet are sticking out beyond the edge of their thighs. But it does look nicer for them to just be smoothly flowing, and the tips of the toes flow right into the edge of the thigh. Yes? How would you suggest doing that?

[33:25]

That one. I'm not interested in fresh air. Also, this seat's got a little bit more air probably than where you are. And also, this description from the Bhavana Kraman, I missed something, didn't mention the hand mudra. So that's a difference between this description, this particular description, and the way we do it. But other texts on, pardon?

[34:26]

Turn the volume up? Yeah, I can just move a little closer. How's that? Is that better? Is that better? It's not. It's just not on very high because of other problems. I can get even closer. But again, other texts on Samatha Vipassana, they do mention the hand movement. And sometimes, again, the right's on top and sometimes the left's on top. Yes. So if they describe the right leg on top, then they have the right hand on top. I think that is a good way to do it, if you have your right leg on top, have your right hand on top, have your left hand on top. For many years, I've mentioned this before many times, but maybe during the first ten years of practice, yoga, people would often say, Hakping people don't, sometimes don't put the left, because Phukong Zen said, put the left leg on top of the right, in full lotus, and the left hand on top of the right,

[35:44]

They weren't concerned about the hand, but they wanted to know how come we didn't sometimes alternate the way we crossed our legs. And the answer was, well, because that's what it says in the book on Zazengi. But then around that time I started studying these other texts on Shama and found these other descriptions, so I thought, well, maybe it is all right to switch. And I asked one Zen teacher if it was all right to switch, and he said yes. His interpretation of Ru Jing was that it was all right to walk away. Where Ru Jing says in the Hokyoki that if your legs hurt a lot, it's okay to cross them in the other direction. And I said, well, what about that? He doesn't say that, so probably not. But he was very conservative, so that's why I asked him, because I thought if he would say okay, it must be okay.

[36:51]

So then, along that time, I started to alternate my legs and my hands. Yes? Could you talk about the mudra, just in terms of... Where the weight, is there any weight resting on the hands, not there? The mudra, the hand mudra? Yes. For me, the ideal to work towards is that the hands are placed, first of all, that the mudra itself, that where the thumbs come together is not hard, the thumbs touch, And again, I've told many of you this before, but Sister Grishy said that they touch, the thumb tips touch enough to hold up a piece of paper.

[37:52]

So if you had a piece of paper there, it wouldn't fall through. And some people thought he meant that they should be a piece of paper distance apart. So they tried to hold him just a piece of paper distance apart. Some people tried that for years. But anyway, lively touching. And also I think it's good to have the feeling around the mudra is the energy and in different parts of your hand are about the same. So you don't have a lot more energy in one knuckle than the other. There's a tendency to like, for the energy to get one place more than another. Do you know what I mean? Like, for the knuckle and the thumb or something to get... one of those knuckles to get more tense than the other one. So try to have a feeling of the energy of the mudra being kind of even throughout. And notice if it's building up one place or another and try to, you know... Anyway, I have a place that it builds up and I just move my knuckle a little bit and it pops.

[39:05]

And then it's even again around the mudra. So then once the mudra is kind of even in that way, your attention and your energy around the mudra is pretty even. and place the mudra against the abdomen. Now, I touch the abdomen with my small fingers, baby fingers. Some people have touched their thumbs to their abdomen too. I don't do that. And also, I've never seen a statue of, well, maybe I have. I haven't seen a good statue of the Buddha where the thumbs are touching the abdomen too. I saw some people like to tilt their wood your way up so that not only their fingers touching but their thumbs are touching. I can see how that feels good but I did recommend you know sometimes to if you tilt if you tilt the

[40:09]

Sort of the plane of your thumb and first fingers if you tilt it forward it puts a little bit more emphasis into your mudra And he sometimes suggested doing that to put a little bit more emphasis So it's touching the abdomen and If you had your legs crossed in half lotus or full lotus, it's touching your heel and if your feet are up high on your thighs. So if your left leg is on top, your right hand is touching your left heel. And what sometimes you see is people... This is their heel, like this. They have their head like this. In other words, their right hand is like sort of forming around the shape of the heel.

[41:18]

In other words, they're putting too much weight. So this is the heel, but it should be like this, not like this. Just touching. So it's a touching, but it's not a heavy touching. just for position, not for actually support. The heels remind you the place you should put your hands for rest. If I start to lean into my hands, then I'm getting more into like a, what do you call it, a three-pointed, like my torso's like leaning on my hands, rather than my torso. So, not to lean on the hands, but to hold the hands that way. And then also the arms are held away from the body. The way of holding the hands such that they kind of float

[42:21]

Although they're touching the foot and touching the abdomen, they're very light. The way of that lightness is usually found with the hands somewhat away from the body, the arms away from the body. If the arms are next to the body, for me anyway, if I pull my arms next to my body, then it tends to... the angle of the forearms is such that it tends to want to blow the mudra apart like this. See? It's like this. If it goes like this, it wants to go like this. So then I have to, like, force this. Or you can also bend and go like this, I suppose, which some people do. If you bring elbows away, then it makes more like a hang-up. And then it sort of hangs and it gets lighter. But to work that all out takes a long time.

[43:26]

It takes a long time to find the resolution of all these various factors. In the meantime, your shoulders may get tense in searching for the proper way to hold this. And what I did many times, I just rested. I let my hands rest in my lap until tension went away and then tried again. If you can find this place of the way of holding your arms, such that this mudra is light, then you can put this mudra against your abdomen in the same position that it would be in. which will be that the fingers will touch the abdomen about two or three inches below your navel. You can place it there, which some people do, but you have no support underneath.

[44:31]

You're not touching your foot. So the hands are actually somewhat floating. I mean, there's nothing under them. They're just fine. They don't have a foot or anything. to position. They're just putting it in the place that it would be if the foot was there. But it's also okay to lower the hands to touch the thighs. But usually, if you don't have your legs... It's not too bad. It's better to be too low, I think, than too high. In other words, it's better to be a little bit lower below your navel than above your navel. I don't think... Yes. Yes. Right. Right. Right. Pardon? No, no, I'm just talking about the ideal, okay? No, no, I'm just talking about the ideal, okay?

[46:26]

The ideal is, for me, when I find this place, this right place for my mudra, it doesn't need any support. And that's like... the most balanced posture. But if you haven't found that place, which most people have trouble finding, I had trouble finding it, then people put various devices under their hands to support them. Some people have little, special little cushions there that they place, you know, you've probably seen some people have rolled up socks or their robes or, you know, a little Zoptan. various things they sat under there to actually rest their hands, but I'm just saying that for me, when I found a way that worked for my shoulders and everything, it didn't need any support. In the meantime, I think various adaptations are fine, but I just, I just think that, um, uh,

[47:30]

They're kind of like supports or training wheels or something like that. Yes? I think that can vary from person to person, too. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I, I guess I, I generally feel like the drooping, the thumbs drooping is a little bit, tends to be a little bit too relaxed. If there's kind of a valley, if your thumbs make kind of a valley, it seems that seems, maybe for you, but just to make sure it's good not to let your, not let the hands droop. And then for the thumbs to make kind of a mountain, I think, tend to be a little too tense. So for the thumbs to be level, I think, is a good balance between relaxation and alertness.

[48:39]

Of the oval, whether it's, you know, it could be this much, right? You have the thumbs overlapping just a little bit, and you have this really big circle. which some people do, quite small, like this, up to the point that it starts to point up. Some Soto Zen priests, I think Katagiri, she was one of them, tended to make a kind of like a little rectangle here. Amazing. Anyway, I think the thing is that for me, I guess for me, it's about like this.

[49:43]

This is mine. This seems about right for me. But for other people, you know, it could be quite different. It would work for your shoulders and and neck, arms, and everything. We have all these different races practicing now, right? It used to be like Japanese arm length was all standardized. They could say, you know, such and such a knuckle and such and such a knuckle, and it worked for like 90% of Japanese. with Europeans and hopefully some other races, too, will eventually start practicing. I think you have to be more flexible, not set definite requirements on where things go. Yes? I heard a couple of things on the left and space on the right.

[50:44]

Yes. Right. Right. Jonathan said that he read that he's more passive, calming, as you said. The left side is connected to the right brain. So, and the right side is more active. So by putting the left hand beside you, you're emphasizing calming. And the leg postures, in the leg crossing postures, when you put the left leg on top, it's called demon-subduing posture. And the right on top is called fortune-bestowing posture. And Buddhas usually have the right hand on top. The Buddha statues. Buddha statues with the right hands on top and the right legs on top.

[51:52]

Not always, but usually. But Buddhas are in the blessing bestowing department, right? The non-Buddhas are in the demon suppressing category. But you can switch between Buddha and sentient being that way. One period be a Buddha, the next period be a a demon-infested sentient being. It is good to switch back and forth rather than just always be a sentient being or always be a Buddha. I wouldn't switch the hands unless I Because the hand movement works well with... It's appropriate with object or leg posture. Yes, Elka? Do you use the energy of Hara?

[52:59]

Use the energy of Hara? When? I don't use the energy... Myself, I don't use the energy of Hara. But... Sitting cross-legged and putting the hands there, I think, helps you. You know, this area below your navel is an energy source, and you're putting your hands right in that spot. So, you're bringing your feet and your hands into that area, and also you're bringing your attention into that area. I don't necessarily miss that energy, but it's kind of like becoming intimate with that energy. Yeah, many people say that when you're chanting to Sometimes they say chant from the hara, chant from the area below the navel, which means, I think, chant with your whole body, right?

[54:18]

Don't just chant from your throat, chant from your chest, but chant all the way down to the base of your body. Try to feel your breath coming from way down there. Yes? I have a question which I think is rather impractical. You have an impractical question? Uh-huh. I use this impractical question. In any culture, let's practice the sincerity of the truth into the question of truth. How do I feel about using any posture as an opportunity to arouse the thought of enlightenment?

[55:21]

I think that's a good idea. I think that's a traditional recommendation of the Buddhist tradition is whether standing, sitting, walking or lying down, and all the postures in between those, four basic ones, constantly, constantly think of your aspiration to attain the welfare of all beings. In many texts it says that. The sitting posture is, this recommendation is particularly, in this you see, this is particularly for Samatha.

[56:25]

So it's particularly for, to what? To help us be with our experience in this very intimate way. Bodhidharma says, outwardly not activating the mind around objects, Inwardly, no coughing or sighing in the mind. So that kind of practice. Thamakappa says, when dispersion of the attention to external objects

[57:39]

and mind remains inwardly upon the meditative object. This is called asamatha. So this posture is to help us so that if you hear some sound or see a light, any kind of other thing, any kind of sense of anything out there, that you don't feel dispersed by that experience. The mind doesn't get dispersed or agitated by this event. And even inside, when things arise, you don't flinch or twitch or cough or sigh. You just settle, moment by moment, with each thing that's happening.

[58:55]

And this is a way to talk about, you know, sort of an inward orientation. where you're reducing this sense of externality. And if there's a thought of internality, if you have a thought like inner, you don't you don't cough or sigh about that either. And, uh,

[60:16]

The fourth ancestor says basically when you don't have any objects of thought, your mind is spontaneously calm. If you are sitting and breathing quietly in this posture, And if you feel like your breath is external or internal, whichever you feel, whether it's inhale or exhale, being intimate with that breath. So if you think the breath is outside, that you don't activate your mind around that breath. You don't get excited about the breath. breath is inside, you don't cough or sneeze.

[61:39]

Yeah. Exciting and contrived are obstacles you're going down. Excitement and contrition are what? Excitement and contrition. What they mean by contrition is excessive contrition. Contrition or confession. Sometimes bodhisattvas are cautioned to not confess too excessively. otherwise it can turn into an obstacle to your tranquility. It helps the practice of Samatha get done properly, but if you do it too much, you know, we don't usually do that too much, you know, as a group here anymore. We used to do that, you said, people walking around whipping themselves, remember?

[62:43]

penitentias whipping themselves. This kind of attrition is not necessarily tranquilizing. Although if you do it enough, I think, it causes the production of endorphins. I understand that on a real concrete level. Soft comes up with regrets. What about on a more subtle level? What is it? Do you bear the ability to be aware? What does systemic contrition look like there? I think that you would be I guess you would just be getting excited about something that you did that you think was inappropriate.

[63:52]

Rather than just recognizing it, you'd be getting excited about it. You'd be distracting yourself, dispersing yourself by your awareness of it. Rather than grounding yourself by your confession, you'd be distracting yourself by your confession. It would be a diversion from being present. rather than something to make you be more sincere about being present. It's subtle, you know? Because it feels good sometimes to just admit, you know, that you've made mistakes and you're an ordinary human being. That's good. But you can get too much into that. You're an ordinary human being about it. I'm going to push it up. When you're in college, my housemates and I have repeated discussions about intentions being enlightened.

[64:59]

There were several who had read Yogananda, which were readings of being enlightened. But there were several of us who were reading more Buddhist books. We read the kind of things, but enlightenment is something that thrives for us. It comes at times that it doesn't. It's just another wrong. And that's been my intention to practice, to just watch the rap, to just read the text. And I do find that gradually I do have more of a intention to help beings if that comes. I like to hear about it. So in the last year, since you've been talking more about it, I've been thinking more about it. But I guess for me, I still... Well, those two go together.

[66:03]

As I said before, and Charlie asked me where I got this, but anyway, Buddhas are born of compassion, but there's no seeking in their practice. That you wish, you wish, you have wishes for people. You wish that they would be free of suffering. You wish to teach them Dharma. You wish that they will understand it. You wish that they will enter the way. You wish to get their, you know, to open their eyes to the truth. The Buddhas wish that, that they have a desire for that. But in their actual practice, they don't seek anything or attach to anything. to anything, even their wishes. So those two go together. Is that what the desire for enlightenment is? Yeah, all those wishes is the desire for enlightenment.

[67:04]

I get all those wishes. But that's the way the Buddha feels. Buddha's already realized, those who have already realized enlightenment wish those things. For those who have not yet fully realized enlightenment, we wish to fully realize Then we would wish those things too, but also we would then have the, you know, more developed abilities to help people. It's not really wanting something for the future that's not present now. It's just wanting something for the future. You could want it right now. You could want it to be the case right now. Don't have to be into the future about that. I just want it. But I'm not going to get nasty about it if it doesn't happen. Because there's no seeking in my practice. I mean, do I actually want that?

[68:07]

Well, yeah. Yeah. Do I really want that for everybody? Yeah. Yeah. Is there any seeking in my way of being? Is there any seeking in my way of shamatha practice? No. First of all, I'm settling with the mind itself. I'm resting my attention in what's happening, not in what will happen. Otherwise, I won't be quiet. If I'm not calm, I won't be able to see. I won't be able to learn. So I have to, if I get into getting something, I'm going to get so excited, I'm just going to get more trouble. Yeah, right. So... I ran across a, I don't know what it was, but me quoting somebody else in it.

[69:23]

And it was, somebody said, in Muktananda's place, they shake with bliss at being in the presence of the guru. In such and such Zen centers, pop and the sky opens up. In Zen centers, we have back problems in babies. Or no babies, for some people. So again, In some practices of Samatha, you focus on the breathing. You try to find this radical inward way of being with the breathing.

[70:26]

So you're settling with the undistracted, undispersed way of being with the experience of your breath or some other object of mind. And they have these different stages, which we may talk about, but again, there's this real concern in some Zen teachings to be careful not to get into gaining something, into seeking something. So the radical teaching of Dharma, just right away, no coughing or sighing, don't get excited about what's happening, inside or outside. Yes. Well, a desire can arise. Now, there's different kinds of desires.

[71:31]

One kind of desire would be the desire for all beings to be free. This is like free of suffering. That's compassion. Compassion is a kind of desire in a way. If you want to call it a desire. You want people to be happy. You want people to be free of suffering. Buddhas can have such a feeling. You can have such a feeling. Other kinds of desires you can also have. They, um... They're a problem. You can have them. But, I mean, I disagree with what you said before. They don't have to be a problem. They sort of have a want for something and still be, um... If you can... If a desire arises and you can, in the midst of practicing this samatha, you can realize the nature of this phenomenon, then it's not a problem. If you realize the emptiness of a desire, it's not a problem.

[72:53]

But before you understand certain desires, if you don't understand them, then it's painful. I don't know if I'm addressing your question. But since the kitchen has left, it might be about time to stop. Then you can go practice samatha for a little while before you get fed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[74:41]

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