Sometimes I call on people in class and ask them questions or talk to them. Sometimes I call on people in class and I guess I initiate an interaction. And so... If you do not want me to do that, please let me know and I'll give it up. You can tell me directly or you can tell Maya and she can tell me and I won't call on you. and ask you, you know, stuff like, demonstrate the fourth type of samadhi.

[01:03]

And also, if when we are interacting, if you feel that I'm being too gentle, or not gentle enough, please help me learn how to be gentle. I don't really know, you know, what level of gentleness is appropriate all the time. Maybe I think I'm being gentle, but you don't think so, or maybe I think I'm not being gentle, and you think I am. So I need your help to to understand how to be gentle. Gentle means interacting in a way that isn't too much, that you're not up for or something like that, that you can't use in a beneficial way.

[02:15]

Also, I told some history. I mean, it wasn't really... It's my story, which since I'm a male, it's his story. Kind of a vision of how Mahayana Buddhism developed in China and what Mahayana Buddhism was in some sense a response to But that doesn't mean that currently in the world that, for example, Theravada Buddhism in Southeast Asia or the way Southeast Asian Buddhism is transmitted to the West is the same kind of situation that kind of stimulated the birth of Mahayana in India. two thousand years ago. And it is possible that a Theravadan teacher teaches non-dual samadhi, and it's also possible that a Zen teacher teaches a dualistic approach to samadhi.

[03:57]

And it's even possible that a Zen teacher teaches a dualistic kind of presentation of samadhi out of compassion, feeling that that's really what people are begging for. So in fact, in introductory instruction at most Zen centers in the West, they do teach following and counting the breath. And they don't usually mention that at the introductory instruction that such practices are a total waste of time. But sometimes, you know, the next lecture they hear, somebody says that. So the fourth samadhi, in a sense, is being willing to be totally devoted to contemplating something that's a total waste of time.

[05:12]

Don't waste time. What about it? Relax with it. Don't grasp it. Listen to it and don't grasp it. So, the Samadhi number two can be practiced without attaching to, without grasping for anything or seeking anything. And then samadhi number two, or developing mental one-pointedness, even in the developing of mental one-pointedness, you can contemplate the practice of developing mental one-pointedness with a sense of non-duality. It's just two and three. Pardon? Number two. You can practice number two.

[06:28]

Number two is like developing, you know, developing a state, working on developing a state, a state which is typified predominantly, you know, typified, a state which is really like emblematic of the fact that all minds have a characteristic of samadhi. So all minds have the characteristic of samadhi, but some states of mind are like advertisements for samadhi. Some states of mind, the samadhi is fully realized. In other words, mental one-pointedness is totally pervading the awareness. In other words, there's a deep realization or settling into the one-pointedness of thought.

[07:31]

And the person looks like it, feels like it. In the Samdhi Nirmocana Sutra, I forgot who asked, but anyway, somebody asked the Buddha, oh, it's Maitreya. Maitreya, the bodhisattva of love, the next Buddha, asked the Buddha, if somebody's practicing or training attention onto the type of objects which are used in developing mental stabilization, but the body and mind have not yet become pliant and soft and joyful, is this the attainment of mental stabilization? And the Buddha says, no. It's the practice of, it's the training of attention in accord with the attaining of mental stabilization.

[08:37]

In other words, mental stabilization is actually when you are that way, when your whole body and mind are like that, and training attention onto developing samadhi is the training. When that training is complete, you actually are in that state. Okay? That's number two. And number two has, there's levels in number two in the sense of deeper and deeper realization of this mental one-pointedness. But also in number two, we could include two, you know, two layers, the training layer and the realization layer in number two. Okay? Does this make sense? Well, you're not yet, you don't, you don't feel and look and act like mental one-pointedness has totally pervaded your body and mind. But you're training at it. And then there are possibilities you're training at it and you've realized it. Now what I'm saying is that within that number two, you can practice that kind of samadhi, you can train in that kind of samadhi, you can train in that kind of samadhi.

[09:47]

In other words, you're not yet in actually that state of fully realized samadhi, you can train in it and simultaneously be practicing number four, training in number four. You can also realize that samadhi number two and do it while contemplating non-duality. Okay, and just a second. And you can also practice number two dualistically. Now the way you practice it non-dualistically is you understand that the attainment of samadhi is non-dual and the non-attainment of samadhi is non-dual. You understand that you give up the distinction between attaining the samadhi and not attaining the samadhi while you're training at the samadhi. You also give up the distinction between attaining the samadhi and not attaining the samadhi after having realized the samadhi.

[11:01]

Then number two is being practiced and you're in number four simultaneously. And also, of course, number three is included. So if you go to introductory instruction and they say, you know, count your breath, and you go to talk given by some Zen priest and he says, Zazen's a total waste of time, and you say, great, I'm going to practice that, and you like totally devote yourself to doing something that you're not going to get anything for, and you're not trying to even get that practice which you don't get anything for, then you'll be practicing perhaps training the mind in samadhi and also doing what is, you know, truly Zen practice, which is to be practicing with body-mind dropped off, which is a total waste of time. Okay?

[12:04]

So, does that make sense? So, practicing samadhi number two, or in the second state or whatever, how would you say that one could be practicing in that state and realizing non-duality? You can be realizing the non-duality, you can be contemplating non-duality, at the same time that you're paying attention to your breath. Like, for example, you can be standing in a room and suddenly just be quiet, you know? And then you go, you know, you realize you're breathing, you know? And you actually are meditating on your breath. and you might feel like totally one with your breath at that moment. At the same time, no sense of gain or loss around that. Joy, maybe, that how wonderful it is to be breathing, how wonderful it is to be one-pointed with your breath, and also no sense that you gained anything or that you're going to hold on to anything.

[13:15]

Then you might just say, I think I'll just sit here and breathe for a while. I'm actually going to meditate on that. And you can want to do that and do that with no sense of I'm doing it, or that following the breath is any different than not following the breath, or that breath is different than body. You could be contemplating nonduality and actually maybe realize it. In other words, you even enter into the samadhi of that contemplation of nonduality. So then why do we talk about the samadhi four as something Other than that. Other than what? This is like Samadhi 4 where there's this complete absorption in Samadhi that includes realizing non-duality. Right? Yes. So why do we do what? So how is Samadhi 2 different from Samadhi 4? So in Samadhi 4 you might not be doing any kind of training in Samadhi. And actually you...

[14:19]

In Samadhi 4, there could also be training in Samadhi 4 that hasn't been realized yet. But if you had realized Samadhi 4, you could realize it completely, and then you would have also realized Samadhi number two. So in Samadhi number four, when it's realized, you've realized number two. You can also contemplate number four without realizing number two. You can train in number four without realizing number two. Does that make sense? No? In other words, you can hear the teachings of Mahayana. You can hear the teachings of non-duality. You can hear the teachings of emptiness. You can hear them and understand them intellectually and yet not be practicing samadhi, not have realized mental one-pointedness fully. Does that make sense? In other words, you're not in a deep state of concentration. You have concentration as a characteristic of your mind, but you haven't deeply realized that characteristic.

[15:22]

You're not deeply concentrated. You hear the teachings, you understand them, and when you understand them, you are transformed. Once you understand intellectually non-duality, you're a different person. Your mind has been changed. But unless you bring that understanding... And that's a kind of wisdom. When you understand the teaching of non-duality... Intellectually you have what's called wisdom which comes through study and listening. But then the full realization of that teaching comes when you unite that wisdom with samadhi. Then you have the wisdom that comes, the wisdom on whatever topic it is, this topic's nonduality, the wisdom which is conjoined with samadhi, or the wisdom that comes with samadhi, which comes with meditation. So you can hear in this class, teachings of nonduality, understand them, and not be in a state of fully developed samadhi.

[16:28]

And you have some understanding, but you would have a deeper understanding if you had accomplished number two. Now number four includes the realization, the full realization of number four includes number two. Because the full realization of four is not just hearing about it, contemplating it, understanding it intellectually. It's hearing about it, contemplating it, understanding it intellectually, reasoning with it, analyzing it, and then entering into samadhi with it. That's the full realization of number four. Does that make sense? Okay, just one second. Okay, Rosie? Is it possible, while in that full realization of number two, to come to that understanding, the wisdom of the understanding that you're talking about of nonduality, number four?

[17:34]

Is it possible for somebody without hearing about it actually to come to it? Yes, it is possible. And if that were the case, you would be a Buddha. Because Buddhists are those who enter into a state of samadhi and realize nonduality without anybody teaching it to them. And so far, only one person in the last 3,000 years has done that. That we know of. On record. All Buddha's disciples so far have heard the teaching of non-duality and then entered into samadhi with that teaching. But it would be possible, and Buddha did that. Buddha did not get the teaching of non-duality, and Buddha went into samadhi and saw non-duality. And that was the first, you know, that was the first.

[18:36]

And everybody else is Buddha's disciple. So to be a Buddha you have to be born in a place where there's no Buddha dharma, and then discover it. Okay? But once you've heard it, just a little bit, like the sixth ancestor walking around in samadhi in the marketplace of Canton or Guangzhou, walking around the marketplace, hears the teaching of non-duality, you know, the teaching of non-duality. Bodhisattva should produce a thought which has no abode. You should produce a mind which doesn't abide in any place. He hears the teaching of non-duality and wakes up. Oh, excuse me, I say he was in samadhi. I don't know if he was in samadhi. He, anyway, woke up on some level when he heard that teaching. If he had been in samadhi, it would have been deeper than if he hadn't been. Vivi? Dropping body and mind, not entering samadhi.

[19:38]

It's not entering samadhi? It's not entering samadhi. No. It's not. It's just non-attachment. It's just letting go. It's contemplating and realizing nonduality, but then as you enter into samadhi with it, it becomes fully realized. It isn't just a momentary release. It then becomes united with your whole body. But now,

[20:41]

I take it back because if you drop body and mind, you would drop the distinction between subject and object. So then at that moment anyway, you would have realized non-duality. So dropping body and mind really is also entering samadhi. So that's how you enter samadhi. sitting upright, dropping our body and mind, you enter the samadhi. And then you live in that samadhi. Yes? So, when I'm in state number two, in the fully realized samadhi, can I at the same time, I mean, if I'm doing something, can I at the same time have some conceptual dualistic thinking going on? Yeah. So number two can be realized, number two was realized by the historical Buddha prior to having insight into the Four Noble Truths and so on.

[21:49]

So it's possible to fully, to be top of the line practitioner of Samadhi number two and not hear any teachings of selflessness. Pardon? No, I asked whether I can, I mean, you talked about standing in a room and then you are in fully realized samadhi, and then you say, now I can count my breaths, or now I can do this or not. This is dualistic thinking, isn't it? I can't do this, I don't do that. So I decide to count my prayers. This is dualistic thinking. So can I do it at the same time, be in fully realized somebody and do some conceptual thinking because I'm involved in some activity? Well, I think you're right. But you still have this attachment, you can still have the attachment to conceptual thinking. And as soon as you stop, as soon as you come out of the absorption, you slip right back in to dualistic thinking.

[22:54]

But at the moment of attaining full samadhi, the afflictions of dualistic thinking are at bay. So, you know, you're… you're not being hassled anymore at that time by the afflictions of dualistic, of self and other being separated. But you still think that way, basically, in every cell of your body. And as soon as you're out of samadhi, out of that state, which comes as a, which arises with the kind of training, you're afflicted again. That make sense? So the answer is yes, you can do books, you can be in samadhi, and you can also think conceptually or do… Well, you said actually, you're right, that when you're in samadhi you're not really thinking conceptually. You're actually letting all that drop.

[24:00]

You're not grasping your conceptual thought in samadhi. But your concepts, a lot of your concepts, like the subject and object are actually separate, which contradicts samadhi itself. You still hold those views, but they're latent. And as soon as you come out of samadhi, they reactivate themselves and you start feeling that way and perhaps acting that way. So the ultimate transformation of the person is not just temporarily pushing away grasping of dualistic thought, but actually contemplating dualistic phenomena and seeing that they're illusory. In other words, contemplating the duality of things and actually waking up to that being an illusion and seeing that all things are non-dual. So in that samadhi number two, you don't necessarily see that subject and object are non-dual. You've actually trained yourself into realizing that they're not. But you still actually, when you start thinking

[25:02]

you still think that they are separate. You still make that distinction and grasp that distinction when you're not consciously training yourself at one-pointedness. So samadhi is, when fully attained, is a relief from the affliction. That's why it's pleasant and at ease in samadhi because you're free of the affliction of the other being separate. You're not afraid in the samadhi. when you come out, you haven't yet transformed your basic belief. But in number three, you transform your basic belief that subject and object are separate. But in number three, the difference between number three is that in number three, there hasn't been yet the giving up the distinction, not just, you've given up the distinction between self and other. You're no longer grasping the idea of a independent self of a person and therefore not of the other, but you still think there's a difference between nirvana and samsara, between being free and in bondage.

[26:16]

And that's why the goal, number three, is the goal of attaining nirvana. Number four is the goal of attaining perfect compassion. and using nirvana to help beings. Number four is realizing the identity of here, this side of the shore and that side of the shore. But number three, number two, is very helpful to realize course three and four. And when you're in number three, you're cool when you attain it. You're cool. But when you're out of it, you haven't yet transformed your understanding. You still can believe in the independent self, even obtaining number three. And the Buddha was a person who attained number two prior to understanding the illusoriness of the independent self. And he wasn't free. But when he attained understanding of the illusoriness of the independent self and then brought that together with his samadhi, he became an arhat very fast.

[27:30]

And also because of his background, he became a Buddha. Now, it may not be the time to mention it, but it won't take too long for me to mention something about the basic two levels of training in Samadhi 3. But I'll do that a little later because there's some questions still on the floor, aren't there? Patty and Catherine and Liz and Rosie. Anybody else? And Jane and Aunt Danny. Remind me to do that, would you? That was sort of the new thing I wanted to mention, is the training levels or the practice levels of number three, samadhi number three. Patty? Danny? Since you're in the neighborhood. I'm kind of grasping this for a way to put this into practice.

[28:38]

So it's very conceptual and, you know, I'm thinking about going back into this endo and I don't know how to, I don't know how to put this into practice. Which one do you want to put in practice? Number two? Well, yeah, but then I feel like, oh, now I'm missing out on something. LAUGHTER Well, that's why I said I have a suggestion. A lot of the suggestions I'm making are practices which can attain number two, number three, and number four simultaneously. What does that look like physically, like sitting in meditation? Well, it can look like sitting in the meditation hall at your seat. You sit in your seat, and you're sitting there, and you're not moving. It could look like that, right? And that's what it might look like from the outside. From the inside, it might look like that whatever comes, there's no grasping of it.

[29:44]

Whatever comes, you don't grasp it. And you don't seek anything other than what's coming. You don't seek samadhi number two, for example. The effective training in samadhi number two is not to seek samadhi number two. I think that's, myself, that comes down to be the most effective way. No, I just, my big parentheses mention that. What some people do is they train students to try to get samadhi They say, people today are not going to practice not trying to get anything, so I'm going to get them to get samadhi. I'm going to tell them samadhi is really good, and I'm going to try to get them to get it. And then they really try to get it, and they try to get it, and they try to get it, and they severely try to get it, and then they collapse. And then they get it. And then they realized it just came when they stopped trying to get it. They got it when they kind of like made this supreme effort and then kind of went, you know, it comes.

[30:51]

But usually they're too busy trying to get it to notice it's coming. So when they're totally, totally wiped out from trying to get it, there's a moment comes when they don't try to get anything. to stand there not trying to get anything. And there it is. It's been there sitting there waiting all the time, but you've been so busy trying to get it that you've been insulting it and saying, you're not samadhi. I'm trying to get samadhi. Does that make sense? Yeah, but that's not really easy. I didn't say that. It's not that easy, yeah. So like somebody else said, what does samadhi look like? That's sort of what you said. What does samadhi look like? Okay? Grasping the samadhi, having some expectation of what samadhi looks like is antithetical to samadhi. Giving up your idea of what samadhi looks like is realized. But for people to go into a meditation hall, a samadhi hall, and sit there with tremendous expectations about what samadhi looks like because you've got all these other people, who's in samadhi around here?

[32:00]

laughter What does it look like? And then like, oh, oh, there's the Buddha on the altar, yeah, that's probably what it looks like. Or fine, you know, expect it to look like that, that's fine. Or expect it, no, Buddha's not what it looks like, it's Buddha like scratching his ear, or Buddha like going, that's what Samadhi, any idea you have of what Samadhi is, okay, if you grasp that, that disturbs your mind. Samadhi is to not grasp any of the ideas of what Samadhi is or anything else. But when you're practicing Samadhi, that's a prime one not to grasp because that's the one you're most grasping for when you're practicing Samadhi. Now, if you don't want to practice Samadhi, fine. And if you don't grasp anything in mind, you're going to enter Samadhi. you're going to enter samadhi means you're going to let samadhi enter you. You're going to wake up to it. If you just stop grasping for anything.

[33:01]

So you at the beginning said you were grasping, so just give up that. And I didn't say it was easy because it's hard to do, it's easy to continue grasping even though it's disturbing. It's easy to continue it because you're very good at it. It's easy to continue what you're good at. It's hard to do something that you're not good at. Hard to be a beginner and awkward and And actually, it's hard to practice not grasping when you don't even practice it. You just keep grasping. And the guy says, practice non-grasping. Okay, I'm practicing it, and I'm not practicing it. I'm practicing this other thing. I'm grasping. So I'm like totally no good at not grasping samadhi, which would enter samadhi. Okay? That's the first level of not grasping, is to notice that you're still grasping. So you practice confession. So a lot of people will mostly be practicing confession for quite a while. In other words, I'm grasping. I'm seeking, I'm grasping, I'm seeking, I'm grasping, I'm seeking, I'm grasping. But the more you confess, the more relaxed you get about confessing that, the closer you get to, again, the same place of just like not grasping anything, and then you enter samadhi.

[34:11]

Samadhi is simply when whatever's going on in your mind, there's no grasping of it and no seeking there. That's samadhi. And that's, you know, and that's, that's, then we'll even find, you see, then you actually have realized non-duality of your mind and object, but you may need a little stimulation of teaching to help you realize what you've actually realized. So that's how you can practice number two. Now, if you want to talk about the other practices, then we can talk about them, but this is how you practice number two in an environment where you're hearing about three and four. And number two is a good thing to practice in the zendo particularly, in class you might want to work on listening. And then you're getting these other teachings which you can understand, and if you understand them, then that understanding is in the room with you when you're sitting. And then if you're practicing samadhi, that understanding gets juxtaposed with the samadhi.

[35:17]

And before I forget, when you unite wisdom with samadhi, you're also uniting wisdom with compassion. Because samadhi is the you know, the fifth type of bodhisattva, of the six paramitas. The first five are compassion. And the fifth one is samadhi or jnana, whose nature is samadhi. So samadhi is a compassion practice. Realizing samadhi, you realize you're one with all beings. Your mind is one with all beings that you're aware of. So, If you listen to the teachings of nonduality and you understand them intellectually, then you can bring that intellectual understanding, that wisdom, together with compassion, led by the practice of samadhi. All the other compassion practices hopefully will be there too.

[36:21]

So, one possible routine would be work on samadhi when you're meditating, And if you work on it in this way of non-grasping and non-seeking, you will calm down. But also, that's exactly the way you practice also contemplating non-duality, is not grasping and seeking. Don't grasp the ideas and teachings of non-duality. Don't grasp the attainment of non-duality. Don't seek the attainment of non-duality. So the practice of not grasping and non-seeking works to develop tranquility, concentration, and also helps you to realize wisdom. So that one practice you can do and you'll be working on one, two, three, and four simultaneously. Because actually one, two, and three, and four are always working together simultaneously, in fact. In Buddha's mind, they're all working together all the time. If you can relax in this environment of Buddha activity, you can become totally integrated with it.

[37:31]

Okay? Let's see. Now I see Elizabeth said that to Catherine. Yes? This kind of comes off of, I think, the listener's question, and you're talking about, as I understood her question, that there's some level of samadhi that's entered, and then you're in the world of activity, as opposed to sitting in the Zen world. Is it possible that some of the expressions that you make verbally or intellectually or the activities that you engage in in a dual way would still be expressing or coming out of the samadhi rather than having abandoned the samadhi in order to enter the world of activity?

[38:33]

Let's say the person has achieved samadhi but they do not yet have understanding of nonduality. Well, I was thinking they have understanding but not civilization. I thought you said they were in samadhi. Oh, so they're still in samadhi. Well, if they've gotten into samadhi, if they've brought samadhi, if they've united samadhi with the understanding of non-duality, is that the example you want to use? I think so. Well, then the person is able to do number four, and number four is exactly to be able to bring the contemplation of nonduality to every event. To every event? Every event. So that all the paramitas, including wisdom, are being enacted in each meeting with each event. That would be stabilization. Yes, there's stabilization. There's totally settled In practicing non-duality in every situation, total samadhi, total wisdom, total compassion, total giving, patience, precepts, enthusiasm, they're all happening in every event in number four.

[39:43]

Somewhere in between. Is there a place of realization of samadhi, understanding of non-duality, that you're not, like, it's not there all the time? I mean, isn't there such a place? Sure. So given that place, yeah, so given that place, is it always the samadhi drops off if you come into activity, or is there this place where... the samadhis expressed in speech or in action? Well, I would say basically that if the teaching of non-duality, if you're in samadhi with that teaching, okay, then if you weren't in somebody else's, if you weren't in somebody's idea of samadhi, if you were like totally hysterical, for example... And you didn't match the... you're totally disturbed, totally seething with all kinds of I don't know what, but you're totally in samadhi about non-duality, then you contemplate non-duality in this seething situation, which is exactly, in some sense, the best place to contemplate non-duality is when you're looking at anti-perfections.

[41:05]

It's hard, you know, because then you can like, you can look at, you can, to look at a perfection, it's hard to practice the non-duality of the perfection and the non-perfection. But when you look at a non-perfection, then you can more easily contemplate this non-perfection and all the afflictions around it are non-dual with the perfection. When you practice that way with non-perfection, then at that moment you're bringing that teaching to bear to this situation. And then the teaching of non-duality is not separate, is in samadhi. Your understanding is in samadhi with this example of not what practice is supposed to look like. Now, because you have not fully realized this, you have examples of anti-perfections to work with.

[42:11]

Now, if you get to the place where you've worked with so many anti-perfections and non-duality that there aren't any anti-perfections anymore, it's okay because you've had so many examples that you've worked with, so it's okay. but then you see it all over the world, so it doesn't make much difference. You'd be a number two samadhi to do what you're talking about, right? Most people would have to have some experience of number two in order to be able to, like, you know, be able to be settled and one-pointed about contemplating non-duality when they're, like, overwhelmed by their experience. So, again, some people come to me and tell me that if they, if they practice just like not grasping and not seeking, they sometimes feel overwhelmed, just all this stuff just comes. So part of the Bodhisattva Samadhi is about how to like continue to practice when the big white wave comes. sometimes called Alzheimer's in my case.

[43:19]

So everybody's got this thing which they think, if that comes, how will I be able to practice? For some other people it's like, if the divine god or goddess comes, how will I practice? I know I'm just totally going to freak out if that comes up. So if you just let all this stuff happen, You just think, I'll just be overwhelmed. That's right, you will be overwhelmed and samadhi will take over. But if you resist it, then the samadhi still takes over, but you've kind of exiled yourself from this great meeting, from this great overwhelm, from this great gift. So then people say, when they hear about a teaching that they could hold on to, and then they think, okay, I'm not overwhelmed. I'm not overwhelmed. I got this teaching I'm doing. And sure enough, there's no big waves coming. You know?

[44:20]

That's because you're in a closet. But you're scared to death, you know, that somebody's going to open the door and say, hi, cutie. But it's a nice practice and you can do it. It's called hold on to the doorknob. And you feel powerful. So, you know, fine. It's okay. We allow that at Zen Center. But the number four is, number three too, are saying come on out and face the world. And if it seems overwhelming, try to relax with it. So we're not trying to, like, suppress the world and get it under control in these outer samadhis.

[45:27]

We're trying to give up trying to control it. thinking about the importance of confession for myself. The importance of confession, yeah. So, can I just mention, so confession, you see, is the practice you have to do when you're trying to learn how to relax and not grasp, because mostly you're going to be, like, noticing, grasping. So confession is a very important practice. Yes. It seems like it's something that we think we can... There's nothing we can do independently our own, right? That's the ultimate truth. We feel like that's what our life is, and we can feel this. We can feel... What feels like what our life is? Doing things by ourselves. Oh, it feels like we do things by ourselves, right. Right. We confess that. So I can... I can recognize grasping, but in the sutra we say realization is not reached by perception from things.

[46:37]

Yes. So we can't actually recognize non-grasping, but we can recognize grasping. Right. I find myself sitting as Ajahn and just all these layers of seeking, recognizing, seeking, recognizing, seeking, and then kind of like going in the closet trying to be really quiet and like maybe if I don't recognize anything then I won't be seeking. Right. It's another game. So you confess, I went in the closet. I think I went in the closet. I got in my closet. I sought my closet and grasped my closet. And now I've got my closet and I confess I'm holding on to my closet for dear life. And the more you confess holding on to your closet, the more you relax. And when you fully confess, when you realize confession, you won't be grasping that either.

[47:42]

Needless to be done. And then you'd be ready to face... Then you have a nice story about revelation. Right. It's nice to hear that. Pardon? I'd like to hear that if you want. Yeah, right. Oh, you want to hear a story of revelation? Okay. It's soothing. It's soothing. What kind of story of revelation do you want to hear? I have seen openness, did you say? I have seen openness and survived. And openness is big relief. But if you flinch and tighten up again, then you get scared.

[48:44]

And getting scared is not necessarily going back in the closet. It might be staying outside, facing the fear. And facing fear is not something to confess, it's something to be grateful for. But then if you withdraw from the fear, try to get it under control again, and you confess, I'm now shifting back to the controlling mode, which is the source of the fear. But if I just, when I'm facing my fear, I say, hey, this is the practice. Got fear? Face fear. Got fear? Don't grasp it. Don't seek it? Going away. Maybe somebody's seeking that it would go away, but there's a practice here of not seeking the end of the fear. Because fear is an opportunity to contemplate non-duality of fear and fearlessness. Right? So I'm so happy to have lots of fear. Yes? My question is on Samadhi 3, so maybe I'll just wait so you can start to talk about that.

[49:48]

Okay. I'd like to answer the questions that are asked now and then go to just a little bit of talk about Samadhi 3. Is that it? When I, is it samadhi, you know, if you're grasping and you say, oh, I'm grasping, that's not samadhi, to be grasping, to know you're grasping when you're grasping. To know that you're grasping when you're grasping? Yes. uh no i mean not [...] no it's just that there's an event here called awareness of grasping yes okay so like like uh that could be like i'm aware that i'm grasping this cup i'm aware that i'm grasping this thought okay the awareness of that In the awareness of grasping there is samadhi. There's one pointedness of the idea of, or the phenomena of grasping and the awareness of that phenomena. There is samadhi already. Now, in addition to that basic samadhi, there is also a deep sense of confidence in the one pointedness of awareness and this grasping.

[50:57]

Then the grasping is like, you see how that opens up to seeing the illusoriness of grasping something that's not separate. from the grasper. But there still is grasper and grasping. There's this grasping and grasp. So there's grasper, grasping and grasp. There still is that sort of distinction. As you relax with that and let go of the distinction, you both are developing wisdom and Samadhi. But most of all, when you let go of it, first of all, I should say, you're entering Samadhi as you relax with the distinction between grasper and grasped. That calms you until basically it feels like there's no duality between grasping and grasped. Okay? But that still isn't necessarily wisdom like of number three and four because you still may think deeply that there is a duality between grasping and grasped.

[52:05]

So after you calm down, then you can go back and look and say, now, is there really... There's a distinction here, but you've let go of the distinction, but have you seen the distinction is illusory? Not yet. When you see not only... When you've let go of the distinction and calmed down thereby, now you're in a good shape to look to see if there's anything to this distinction, and you will not find... you will not find anything to it. You won't be able to find the grasp or the grasper or the grasping. You can't find these things. When you can't find them, then it's different than giving them up. Then you don't have anything to give up. So another way, I've mentioned it before, is the samadhi practice is like not to move among the objects. And the insight practice is not, samadhi practice is not to move among the different objects. but just realize with every object mental one-pointedness. Whereas the insight is to understand that the different objects aren't different, that the distinction doesn't hold up.

[53:10]

So when you give up moving among them and also moving between, you know, give up the distinction between grasping and grasping, you give it up. you enter samadhi, then with samadhi you enter into the teaching of the non-duality of grasp, burn, grasp. When you understand that, then you bring that back into the samadhi, so that becomes deeply cooked in that, so that insight then takes over, and then you actually have changed the way you see the world. And then, of course, you naturally do practice that non-duality in every situation. What isn't samadhi? Some illusions say this is not samadhi. The name of some illusions is not samadhi, but they're illusions. Elena? How do you work with anger?

[54:19]

How do you work with it? Well, first of all, confess it. And then try to be clear about what kind of anger it was. I'm angry in this kind of anger. And is it anger like not liking or some kind of unwholesomeness? Or is it anger like wishing somebody would get hurt? So wishing somebody would get hurt is of course much more severe anger, much more unwholesome. than not liking some kind of harm to come to people. Not liking or disliking and trying to avoid harm is actually wholesome anger. But you still confess it because there's still maybe some duality there. So you try to confess the kind of anger you have. That's the first thing to do. And I think you're pretty much in that example.

[55:23]

Ladies and gentlemen, you're done. That's the end of the story on that one. You have any more questions? Well, concerning anger itself, I used to, for a long time, be in a school that said that one should not express anger. One should not express it? I got clobbered over the head. I didn't express anger. Yes. This wave of anger comes up. Yes. Totally. In it, it feels more wholesome than before when I suppressed it. But still, when... Well, in the example we just gave, I was talking about feeling anger and not to mention expressing it. But either feeling it or expressing it, my response was confess it. I didn't say express your anger. And I also didn't say suppress it.

[56:25]

I said confess it. If you're feeling anger, confess it. If you've verbally expressed the anger, confess it. I'm saying confess it. I'm not saying suppress or express. I'm saying confess, and I'd say confession will help you actually fulfill the expression that's already occurred. But we also have to practice compassion and practicing confession with anger is practicing compassion. We also need to bring patience to anger, which is practicing compassion. We also need to bring giving and generosity to anger, which is practicing compassion. We need to bring enthusiasm at doing good to anger, and we need to bring samadhi to anger. So we need to bring all those practices of compassion to anger. This is a samadhi, isn't it?

[57:25]

Yes. And wholesome anger would be anger that is arising in the context of samadhi. A person in samadhi could say, you know, I really hate it when you do that, and be totally helpful to let you know that this person hates it when you gouge your flesh. They hate it. But they're not trying to hurt you. They're just expressing their compassion. And they're open to feedback on that too. But anyway, I see Emma has a question, but this is a big topic, so I don't want to spend the rest of the practice period talking about anger. But basically, I wouldn't suppress, I'm not talking about suppressing anything. I'm talking about meeting things with non-grasping and non-seeking. And that means bring compassion to things and wisdom to things.

[58:28]

And there's a lot to talk about how you bring compassion and wisdom to anger. But anger is an opportunity to realize non-duality if you bring the right ingredients to the meeting. But I actually think I can perform my acts of compassion without grasping. I think I can give without grasping, and I think I can be patient without grasping, and practice precepts without grasping. It makes sense to me it's possible, but I notice that I'm slipping. Okay? I'd like to just say something about this number three, okay? And that is, number three is where you, if you have, you can start training in number three without having previously attained or trained in number two. But when you enter number three, then you're going to start probably getting some training in number two. You have to have enough samadhi realization to be able to pay attention to the instructions.

[59:36]

Well, let's just say one story is this person, somebody has been training at number two pretty well. They have some sense of samadhi and now they want to do number three, which number three is basically that we're now going to meditate on the lack of self of the person. And somebody mentioned to me a scripture which I cite, and I think it's cited in Warm Smiles, and it might even be in a chapter on some of the practices which talk about the teaching of suchness, because the Buddha said to one of his disciples, train yourself thus. and train yourself as such. And I thought that that early instruction by the Buddha was a good example of training in suchness, which many of you have heard me quote before.

[60:38]

So the Buddha said, train yourself thus. That's the first instruction. Train yourself thus. Train yourself thus. Train yourself thus. And stop right there. And stopping right there means, what do you mean, train yourself thus? How am I going to grasp that? What is that? How do you do that? Just train yourself thus, period. What am I going to get out of that? See if you can practice non-grasping and non-seeking with the teaching. Train yourself thus. Just like in the first case of the book of Serenity, Buddha sits up in the seat and Manjushri says, the teaching of the Buddha is thus. And the criticism is, why did you say so then? And it's also, why did the Buddha say, train yourself thus?

[61:40]

Why don't you just sit there in silence and convey that non-verbally? Here I am, I'm the Buddha. What am I teaching you? Take a guess. I'm teaching you this. I mean, this is the way it is. Look at the Buddha. Inside and outside. And notice there's no difference. That's the way it is. Train yourself like this. Anyway, but then even Buddha had to say something. So he said, train yourself thus. Period. But then he goes on. You know, because people say, well, how? So then he says, in the herd, there will be just the herd. Period. In the seen, there will be just a seen. Period. See? Thus. Thus. In the reflected, and by the way, reflected is a technical term which is shorthand for smelled, touched, taste. So in what you smell, there will be just a smelled.

[62:42]

In smelling, there will be just a smelled. In touching, there will be just a touched. And in tasting, there will be just a tasted. And then in the thought or the conceptualized, there will be just, excuse me, in the cognized, there will be just the cognized. Can I finish? Is that junction, stress, this is it? Is that kind of similar? Yes. Yes. Then he says, when for you it's like this, when it becomes like this for you, in other words, when you enter into samadhi with this instruction, when for you, when that's how it is for you, that when you hear, there's just a heard, and when you cognize something, there's just a cognized, which, by the way, is samadhi. Because it's like

[63:45]

You know, there's you, but really what's happening is that it's not really you and the herd. There's just the herd. So there's you. So for you, it's like there's just the herd and there's just the sea. So it's like you're there, but basically it doesn't feel like that anymore. It feels like what's there is what you're looking at and what you're hearing and what you're tasting and what you're thinking. Actually, you're thinking in all these cases, but... In each case, there's just the object. That means object and awareness are one. So this is samadhi. Then he goes on to say, when it's like that for you, then you will not identify with it. When you don't identify it, then you won't possess it. When you don't possess it, you won't locate yourself in it. But also I would add, you won't let it look, get yourself inside of it or outside of it. And then there will be no here or there or in between, and that will be the end of suffering.

[64:50]

So this is an example of samadhi number three. It's the end of suffering because, you know, for you, there's no you possessing, you don't possess the things you think. And you don't possess the things you smell, you don't possess the things, you don't grasp any of this stuff. That's the way it is for you. So then there's no here and there. Now, the Mahayana sutras will go beyond this. And they'll have another few lines after this. Matter of fact, in Mahayana texts, you'll have a story like this, and it'll go on. Sometimes they even take almost the identical story from the earlier scriptures and they just add a few more lines or lots of more lines, which might be like this. And that will be the end of suffering. And that end of suffering will not be the end of suffering and will be not different from suffering.

[65:58]

And that will be the end of suffering for the entire universe. That is, and that will be the Mahayana. So now we're in Samadhi four, because in Samadhi four nirvana is non-dual and samsara is non-dual. All conditioned things, all compounded things are non-dual and all uncompounded things like nirvanas are also non-dual. Nirvanas cannot be established. Samsaras cannot be established. So again, in the training phase, in number three, first of all, you have to train yourself at the teachings of not clinging to self, the teachings of selflessness

[67:05]

Thinking about the importance of confession for myself. The importance of confession, yeah. So, can I just mention, so confession, you see, is the practice you have to do when you're trying to learn how to relax and not grasp, because mostly you're going to be like noticing grasping. So confession is a very important practice, yes. It seems like it's something that we think we can... There's nothing we can do independently our own, right? That's the ultimate truth. We feel like that's what our life is, and we can feel this, we can feel... What feels like what our life is? Doing things by ourselves. Oh, it feels like we do things by ourselves, right. Right. We confess that. So I can... I can recognize grasping, but in the sutra we say realization is not reached by perception from things. Yes.

[68:10]

So we can't actually recognize non-grasping, but we can recognize grasping. Right. I find myself sitting as Ajahn and just all these layers of seeking, recognizing, seeking, recognizing, seeking, and then kind of like going in the closet, trying to be really quiet, and like maybe if I don't recognize anything, then I won't be seeking. Right. It's another game. It's another game. So you confess, I went in the closet. I think I went in the closet. I got in my closet. I sought my closet and grasped my closet. And now I've got my closet. I confess I'm holding on to my closet for dear life. And the more you confess holding on to your closet, the more you relax. And when you fully confess, when you realize confession, you won't be grasping that either.

[69:16]

Right? You just be done. And then you'd be up ready to face... Then you have a nice story about revelation. All right. It's nice to hear that. Pardon? I'd like to hear that if you want. Yeah, right. Oh, you want to hear a story of revelation? Okay. It's soothing. It's soothing. It's soothing. What kind of story of revelation do you want to hear? I have seen openness, did you say? I have seen openness and survived. And openness is a big relief. But if you flinch and tighten up again, then you get scared.

[70:18]

And getting scared is not necessarily going back in the closet. It might be staying outside, facing fear. And facing fear is not something to confess, it's something to be grateful for. But then if you withdraw from the fear, try to get it under control again, then you confess, I know I'm shifting back to the controlling mode, which is the source of the fear. But if I'm facing my fear, I say, hey, this is the practice. Got fear? Face fear. Got fear? Don't grasp it. Don't seek it. Going away. Maybe somebody's seeking that it would go away, but there's a practice here of not seeking it. The end of the fear. Because fear is an opportunity to contemplate non-duality of fear and fearlessness. Right? So I'm so happy to have lots of fear. Yes? My question is on Samadhi 3, so maybe I'll just wait until you start to talk about that.

[71:22]

Okay. I'd like to answer the questions that I've asked now and then go to just a little bit of talk about Samadhi 3. That's good? There's a just part of it. When I, is it samadhi, you know, if you're grasping and you say, oh, I'm grasping, that's not samadhi, to be grasping, to know you're grasping when you're grasping. To know that you're grasping when you're grasping? Yes. Uh, no. I mean, not, not, not, not no. It's just that there's an event here called awareness of grasping. Yes. Okay. So like, like, uh, there could be like, I'm aware that I'm grasping this cup. I'm aware that I'm grasping this thought. Yes. Okay. The awareness of that In the awareness of grasping, there is samadhi. There's one-pointedness of the idea of, or the phenomena of grasping and the awareness of that phenomena. There is samadhi already. Now, in addition to that basic samadhi, there is also a deep sense of confidence in the one-pointedness of awareness and this grasping.

[72:30]

Then the grasping is like you see how that opens up to seeing the illusoriness of grasping something that's not separate. from the grasper. But there still is grasper and grasping. There's this grasping and grasp. So there's grasper, grasping and grasp. There still is that sort of like distinction, okay? As you relax with that and let go of the distinction, you both are developing wisdom and Samadhi. But most of all, when you let go of it, first of all, I should say, you're entering Samadhi as you relax with the distinction between grasper and grasped. That calms you until basically it feels like there's no duality between grasping and grasp. Okay? But that still isn't necessarily wisdom like of number three and four, because you still may think deeply that there is a duality between grasping and grasped.

[73:38]

So after you calm down, then you can go back and look and say, now, is there really, there's a distinction here, but you've let go of the distinction, but have you seen the distinction is illusory? Not yet. When you see not only, when you've let go of the distinction and calmed down thereby, Now you're in a good shape to look to see if there's anything to this distinction. And you will not find anything to it. You won't be able to find the grasp or the grasper or the grasping. You can't find these things. When you can't find them, then it's different than giving them up. Then you don't have anything to give up. So another way I've mentioned it before is the samadhi practice is like not to move among the objects. And the insight practice is not, samadhi practice is not to move among the different objects, but just realize with every object mental one-pointedness. Whereas the insight is to understand that the different objects aren't different, that the distinction doesn't hold up.

[74:43]

So when you give up moving among them, and also moving between, you know, give up the distinction between grasping and grasping. You give it up. You enter samadhi. Then with samadhi you enter into the teaching of the non-duality of grasping and grasping. When you understand that, then you bring that back into the samadhi, so that becomes deeply, you get hooked in that, so that insight then takes over, and then you actually have changed the way you see the world. And then, of course, you naturally do practice that non-duality in every situation. What isn't samadhi? Some illusions say this is not samadhi. The name of some illusions is not samadhi. But they're illusions. Elena? How do you work with anger?

[75:53]

How do you work with it? Well, first of all, confess it. And then try to be clear about what kind of anger it was. I'm angry in this kind of anger. And is it anger like not liking or some kind of unwholesomeness? Or is it anger like wishing somebody would get hurt? So wishing somebody to get hurt is, of course, much more severe anger, much more unwholesome. than not liking some kind of harm to come to people. Not liking or disliking and trying to avoid harm is actually wholesome anger. But you still confess it because there's still maybe some duality there. So you try to confess the kind of anger you have. That's the first thing to do. And I think you're pretty much in that example.

[76:57]

Ladies and gentlemen, you're done. That's the end of the story on that one. Do you have any more questions? Well, concerning anger itself, I used to, for a long time, be in a school that said that one should not express anger. One should not express it? I got clobbered over the head. I didn't express anger. Yes. This wave of anger comes up. Yes. Totally. It feels more wholesome than before when I suppressed it. But still, when... Well, in the example we just gave, I was talking about feeling anger and not to mention expressing it. But either feeling it or expressing it, my response was confess it. I didn't say express your anger. And I also didn't say suppress it.

[77:58]

I said confess it. If you're feeling anger, confess it. If you've verbally expressed the anger, confess it. I'm saying confess it. I'm not saying suppress or express. I'm saying confess, and I'd say confession will help you actually fulfill the expression that's already occurred. But we also have to practice compassion and practicing confession with anger is practicing compassion. We also need to bring patience to anger, which is practicing compassion. We also need to bring giving and generosity to anger, which is practicing compassion. We need to bring enthusiasm at doing good to anger, and we need to bring samadhi to anger. So we need to bring all those practices of compassion to anger. Is there samadhi in the order?

[78:59]

Yes. And wholesome anger would be anger that is arising in the context of samadhi. A person in samadhi could say, you know, I really hate it when you do that, and be totally helpful to let you know that this person hates it when you gouge your flesh. They hate it. But they're not trying to hurt you. They're just expressing their compassion. And they're open to feedback on that too. But anyway, I see Emma has a question, but this is a big topic, so I don't want to spend the rest of the practice period talking about anger. But basically, I wouldn't suppress, I'm not talking about suppressing anything. I'm talking about meeting things with non-grasping and non-seeking, and that means bring compassion to things and wisdom to things, and there's a lot to talk about how you bring compassion and wisdom to anger.

[80:07]

But anger is an opportunity to realize non-duality if you bring the right ingredients to the meeting. Yes? Well, I wanted to hear something about patience because that seems to me a really important perfection for us. A teaching like this, I kind of felt Danny asking this question and then at the end maybe I was wrong, but how do I do it? I hear all that and it sounds very ideal, but how do I do it? And given what psychological tangles we're in, Often I hear people saying and myself saying, okay, I hear that, but the frustration is so strong. And so patience to me has seemed like a very important medicine in our training. And I don't hear so much about it, so I don't know. In this particular example, if you hear about a practice of not grasping or seeking anything,

[81:15]

And then when you hear that practice, if in your mind the thought arises, well, how do I do that? Then I would say, confess that a grasping has just arisen. And now if you want to know how to confess, well, I would say if you could, for example, tell me, which you just did, that that happened, that's pretty much it. You just told me. As soon as you talked about non-grasping and non-seeking, I wondered how I could do it. Say, well, you noticed that, that's great. Now you confessed it, that's fine. Now we're done. No, that's enough for now. Now, that, however, that might happen in the next moment, in the next moment, and that might be irritating. Yeah, the psychological disturbances can get very strong. Right. So then we need to bring patience to the practice of non-grasping, particularly when we're unsuccessful at it. And we also start to notice that the grasping is painful too, and the seeking is painful.

[82:17]

So the practice of non-grasping and non-seeking might heighten our awareness of how painful it is to be grasping and seeking. and how painful it is to the grasping and seeking program, that that won't work on this practice. So we have pain when our habits are painful, and then our habits also get applied to doing a practice which thwarts our habits. So we need to know how to soothe ourselves in uncomfortable transition. And patience is to And patience goes with enthusiasm, too, enthusiasm or heroic effort, that I would like to learn how to be patient with this pain, with this frustration, with this irritation of doing a practice, of being devoted to a practice that I can't do. And so I need to be kind of like think that patience is a good thing. I need to feel kind of joyful about practicing patience, like somewhere in the neighborhood of, oh, good, an opportunity to practice patience.

[83:20]

I feel good about this opportunity. I don't feel good about the pain, but I do feel good about doing the good thing in relationship to the pain, namely to go to the pain, not go to it, to meet the pain with no grasping your C, which means meet the pain, which means like, where's the pain? Where's the pain? Okay, there it is. Okay, now... Don't rush in there, but just gently try to relax with the pain. And where's the most relaxing place to be with the pain? Actually, it's okay to be in the most relaxing place with this pain. And I find the most relaxing place to be with pain is in the center of it, physically and temporally, spatially and temporally. So if I have pain in my body, I try to find the center of it is the most comfortable place to meet it, and also the center of it in time is now. If I think of the past few minutes or weeks or years of this

[84:24]

I find it's difficult to be present in a relaxed way with the pain. And if I think how long it's going to go on, I find it difficult to be present with it. But if I give up how long it's going to give up running back and forth between past and future, and deal with this present one, and now this is gone, now deal with this present one, this is gone, and also the center of it physically, that's my best bet with this difficulty. It doesn't necessarily take the difficulty away, but there's more energy for enthusiasm because I'm not... depleting my energy, wishing that it wasn't there, or running to the past and future and amplifying it. So my experience is when I'm in pain, if I think, if I'm in pain, so let's say the fire of the pains, you know, like this, and if I think of the pain going on for 10 more minutes, then the fire goes... I actually experience the pain flaring up as I think about it lasting another five minutes or hour or whatever. And if I also think about how long I've been subjected to this, that also makes it kind of like, if it doesn't flare up, it's more like kind of like I lose my legs, you know.

[85:36]

Oh, I can't stand this. It's been going on so long. If I just let go of those and just face it moment by moment, I find that I have more energy to face it and possibly can relax with it. So if we're doing... We're talking about the practice of Buddha here, right? So it's probably going to take us a while to really be steadily practicing non-grasping and non-seeking in all life situations, which the Buddha can do. So it makes sense that we're going to be... veering off of that quite a bit for quite a while, but that's normal. The bodhisattva path is like full of that. So the Heroic Mark Samadhi is to be like settled and one-pointed and really feel intimate with the project of doing this amazing training of our mind in this really different way of being. And somehow being enthusiastic about the moment-by-moment little frustrations that come up when we notice there is some grasping, there is some seeking.

[86:42]

I'm not that good at this samadhi. I'm not that good at not grasping and not seeking. I actually am holding on to things. But I actually think I can perform my acts of compassion without grasping. I think I can give without grasping, and I think I can be patient without grasping, and practice precepts without grasping. It makes sense to me it's possible, but I notice that I'm slipping. Okay? I'd like to just say something about this number three, okay? And that is, number three is where you, if you have, you can start training in number three without having previously attained or trained in number two. But when you enter number three, then you're going to start probably getting some training in number two. You have to have enough samadhi realization to be able to pay attention to the instructions.

[87:42]

Well, let's just say one story is this person, somebody has been training at number two pretty well. They have some sense of samadhi and now they want to do number three, which number three is basically that we're now going to meditate on the lack of self of the person. And somebody mentioned to me a scripture which I cite, and I think it's cited in Warm Smiles, and it might even be in a chapter in some of the practices which talk about the teaching of suchness, because the Buddha said to one of his disciples, train yourself thus. and train yourself as such. And I thought that that early instruction by the Buddha was a good example of training in suchness, which many of you have heard me quote before.

[88:43]

So the Buddha said, train yourself thus. That's the first instruction. Train yourself thus. Train yourself thus. Train yourself thus. And stop right there. And stopping right there means, what do you mean, train yourself thus? How am I going to grasp that? What is that? How do you do that? Just train yourself thus, period. What am I going to get out of that? See if you can practice non-grasping and non-seeking with the teaching. Train yourself thus. Just like in the first case of the book of Serenity, Buddha sits up in the seat and Manjushri says, the teaching of the Buddha is thus. And the criticism is, why did you say so then? And it's also, why did the Buddha say, train yourself thus?

[89:46]

Why don't you just sit there in silence and convey that non-verbally? Here I am, I'm the Buddha. What am I teaching you? Take a guess. I'm teaching you this. I mean, this is the way it is. Look at the Buddha. Inside and outside. And notice there's no difference. That's the way it is. Train yourself like this. Anyway, but then even Buddha had to say something. So he said, train yourself thus. Period. But then he goes on. You know, because people say, well, how? So then he says, in the herd, there will be just the herd. Period. In the seeing, there will be just a see. Period. See? Thus. Thus. In the reflected, and by the way, reflected is a technical term which is shorthand for smelled, touched, taste. So in what you smell, there will be just a smelled.

[90:48]

In smelling, there will be just a smelled. In touching, there will be just a touched. And in tasting, there will be just a tasted. And then in the thought or the conceptualized, there will be just, excuse me, in the cognized, there will be just the cognized. Can I finish? Is that junction, this is it, is that kind of similar? Yes. Yes. Then he says, when for you it's like this, when it becomes like this for you, in other words, when you enter into samadhi with this instruction, when for you, when that's how it is for you, that when you hear, there's just a heard, and when you cognize something, there's just a cognized, which, by the way, is samadhi. Because it's like,

[91:51]

You know, there's you, but really what's happening is that it's not really you and the herd. There's just the herd. So there's you. So for you, it's like there's just the herd and there's just the scene. So it's like you're there, but basically it doesn't feel like that anymore. It feels like what's there is what you're looking at and what you're hearing and what you're tasting and what you're thinking. Actually, you're thinking in all these cases, but... In each case, there's just the object. That means object and awareness are one. So this is samadhi. Then he goes on to say, when it's like that for you, then you will not identify with it. When you don't identify it, then you won't possess it. When you don't possess it, you won't locate yourself in it. But also I would add, you won't let it look, get yourself inside of it or outside of it. And then there will be no here or there or in between.

[92:53]

And that will be the end of suffering. So this is an example of Samadhi number three. It's the end of suffering. Because, you know, for you, there's no you possessing, you don't possess the things you think. And you don't possess the things you smell, you don't possess the things, you don't grasp any of this stuff. That's the way it is for you. So then there's no here and there. Now, the Mahayana sutras will go beyond this. And they'll have another few lines after this. Matter of fact, in Mahayana texts, they'll have a story like this, and it'll go on. Sometimes they even take almost the identical story from the earliest scriptures and they just add a few more lines, or lots of more lines, which might be like this. And that will be the end of suffering.

[93:54]

And that end of suffering will not be the end of suffering and will be not different from suffering. And that will be the end of suffering for the entire universe. That is, and that will be the Mahayana. So now we're in Samadhi 4, because in Samadhi 4 nirvana is non-dual and samsara is non-dual. All conditioned things, all compounded things are non-dual and all uncompounded things like nirvanas are also non-dual. Nirvanas cannot be established. Samsaras cannot be established. So again, in the training phase, in number three, first of all, you have to train yourself at the teachings of not clinging to self, the teachings of selflessness

[95:11]

Then you have to train yourself, then you have to bring these, and when you understand these teachings of selflessness, you then need to bring those teachings of selflessness, when you understand them, you need to bring them together with samadhi. You mean when you understand them intellectually? Yeah, when you understand them intellectually, then you need to bring them together with samadhi, and then you understand them fully. Yes? I think it goes a little back to what I asked before. Now, if you say in the sound, it's just in the heard, it's just the heard. Yes. If I hear a word, then it's the sound that is also a concept at the same time. Should you explain how these two things can go together? If I hear the word just as a sound, then I don't have a concept. Okay. Well, this is a big topic, but I'm ready for it. All right, here goes. This presentation of these four categories are all four categories of conception.

[96:18]

He's giving instruction not about direct perception, but about conception. The daily life situations, when you see ordinary life is mostly conceptual cognitions. And in the realm of conceptual cognitions is where we mentally elaborate or conceptually elaborate on all these concepts. that's our normal life, that's where we suffer. Now suffering pervades other realms of our existence, but that's really where we cause the trouble and that's where suffering arises in the way we deal with concepts. That's where it starts to really blossom. So he's saying when a concept of color arises, So this is actually a cognition, which is called a color, but it actually is a conceptual consciousness. There is awareness of the color, but there is a concept mediating the awareness. And there's a concept mediating the awareness of touch and taste, too.

[97:22]

And there's a concept mediating the awareness of mental phenomena, So the mental phenomenon, not all concepts, only one of the omnipresent mental factors is conception. But when the mind is aware of the other mental factors, it's aware of them with that conception intervening, usually. So Buddha's talking to somebody who is still involved in, he's hearing this instruction with conception mediating in the instruction, and the instruction is about, in conceptual consciousness, in conceptual cognition, here's how to train yourself thus. Okay? So, when you see a color, when you see the concept of the color, he's saying, just let that concept be that concept. Don't elaborate on it. And if you can develop that kind of way of being with it, you're actually training yourself in samadhi and you're getting ready for wisdom because he's saying that when you can train yourself such that the awareness of the concept of a blue color, then the awareness of that is not to elaborate on it, you start to realize the one-pointedness of mind.

[98:46]

You start to calm down because you're not elaborating on it. And as you calm down, you start to realize that the awareness and the thing are one. But you probably won't realize that without further instruction, unless you're a Buddha. And the further instruction is, now that you're not elaborating on it, you're calmed down with it. So the main calming thing is that you're training your mind not onto an object out there, You're training your mind onto letting the thing just be thus. That's what you're training your attention on. Each concept you meet, you're training your attention in meet it with no elaboration. Meet it, just let it be. Meet it without seeking something or commenting. Give up discursive thought around it, all that kind of stuff. Don't grasp it. Just let it be. Okay? Then your mind calms. Now you get further instruction. you actually have now sort of started to realize the one-pointedness, but you don't know it yet.

[99:46]

You're calm now because the one-pointedness is starting to pervade. And the person he's talking to, this excellent monk, probably either was in a state of concentration or just the Buddha was able to say, train yourself thus, and the person would snap into samadhi. Or he was already in it. So that now when he says, when you're like that, when that's how it is for you, in other words, when you don't mess with things anymore, he didn't mention, you're calm, you're starting to manifest non-duality in terms of samadhi, and now I'm going to give you more instruction. And I'm going to tell you about how it is there now. I'm going to draw your attention to the situation. So in that situation, you won't identify with it. You're already like not doing that anymore. It's already kind of like there's just that, not me and that, not me. It's just more like, it's like boop. There's no me like, well, that was good.

[100:47]

I did that nicely. It's just boop. He says, now, when it's like that for you, Buddha says, you won't be identifying with it. And he goes... Right. I'm not identifying with that. There's just... Okay. And he says, then you won't possess it. Right. And you won't locate yourself in it. Right. And you also won't locate yourself over here either. Right. So then there won't be any here and there and in between. And he goes, right. And then he says, and that's the end of suffering. And he says, right. And then he says, hey, can I be your disciple? That's what he says afterwards. He has this awakening experience. He says, can I be a Buddha? Can I be a monk? And he says, sure. And I won't tell you the rest of the story. Okay? Now, that's not the end of the story, however. The next phase will be... This is, like, pretty good.

[101:48]

He's end of suffering, but now... In addition to that, there's a possibility of direct perception of this. So I told this story that what the real deep realization is, is that when you hear the Buddha saying, this is in the realm of concept, when you hear the Buddha saying that this concept out here and leaving it thus, there's going to be no conceptual mediation. you're training yourself in no conceptual elaboration around this concept, but you're actually going to come to a place now where there's no conceptual mediation, not so much just with the concept, because the concept's still there, but there's going to be no conceptual mediation between the awareness and the understanding that there's no out there, that there's no self-identified with it. That information, that realization, is going to come without conceptual mediation, so that's going to be a direct perception.

[102:51]

So you are now united or non-dual with the teaching of non-duality. That's when it really hits. So, on the level of understanding the non-separation of self and other, that's attained at number three. You realize the emptiness of the person, the selflessness of the person through that type of story, through number three. Okay? And that's also how the conceptual cognitions and the perceptions, direct and perceptual cognitions, play into the realization. The realization must eventually be direct perception without conceptual mediation, because with conceptual mediation there's still some distance. So in this story, The monk actually hasn't even become a monk yet. This disciple of Buddha has had direct perception of the non-duality of self and other, direct perception of the emptiness of the person.

[103:58]

And this is the end of suffering for that person. There's still a person, but there's no inherent existence of the person for this person anymore. So he's free and happy. And he has direct perception. He understands that teaching, And he has direct perception of the understanding of that teaching. So this is like... And then, the other level... So that's a real... This is a true... This is not training anymore. This is a realization of understanding that what we call Satkaya Drishti. In other words, the true body of the self is an illusion. You understand there's no true substance of the self. And this is the entrance into actual Buddhist practice. Before that, We've been practicing in the training phase, we've been practicing samadhi and so on, and some of us have attained a deep samadhi, and some of us have a superficial samadhi. We must have some samadhi, otherwise we wouldn't even be able to hear the teaching. We're practicing samadhi and have attained it or not, and we're hearing the teachings about selflessness, but we still don't believe the teachings on selflessness.

[105:07]

We believe them in the sense that it makes sense, but some part of our body says, no way. No way. Our cells say, no way. I don't believe this. I'm going to let you sit here and listen to this stuff and say, you understand, but you're not going to get by with this. So you're not really doing Buddhist meditation and you still deeply believe in the substance of the self. And you're practicing samadhi Realizing samadhi, let's say, and hearing the teachings of lack of inherent existence of the self. You're hearing these teachings, studying these teachings, meditating on these teachings, but you still don't believe them. Then you believe them, and you have a direct perception of them. First you believe them, and then you actually see them directly with no conceptual mediation, like, this is Buddhist teaching, so you should believe it. None of that. Just directly you see selflessness. In other words, you see, I can't find the self here, and nobody else can either, because I've checked out all the ways people can find it, and I know nobody can find the self here.

[106:17]

I'm totally convinced. It's totally pervading my body. I've changed. And as Buddha says, I'm content. I've done my work. And in a sense, talking from before I realized this, in old ways of talking, I did my work. I did my work and now I've realized that I didn't do the work, that actually Buddha Dharma did the work through human life. And so I'm happy. Now, So the first phase is your training and teachings of selflessness, but haven't realized them yet. The next stage, you've realized them, so you've actually entered the Buddhist path, and now your practices are, strictly speaking, now your practices are Buddhist because you've awakened. You've awakened to selflessness. So now all the practices you do are going to be done under the auspices of this realization. So you're going to be... Yeah. You're going to be carrying your insight into selflessness into all the practices you do.

[107:21]

And as I mentioned to somebody this morning, however, this phase of where you really deeply change your attitude about who you are or rather your attitude about who you are is totally transformed from something that exists substantially to something that doesn't have substantial existence but still appears conventionally. You have this very sophisticated, amazingly wonderful insight. You are now in the inner sanctum of the Buddhist path. This is called the path of seeing. You have seen. And you never slip back from here. You never forget once you've seen this directly. So you're like … you're on the path now, and you may or may not also be in samadhi. But if you do practice samadhi, you practice it. You practice it, but not you in the independent self practices. You never again practice as an independent self. You always practice just as a conventional self, and you're free of that pain in your practice.

[108:27]

So you're happy. This is a path of vision. However, the next level of training in samadhi number three, the next thing to totally be absorbed in, in samadhi, is to be in samadhi with this realization. So again, bring samadhi to this great vision. Bring compassion again together with this great vision of selflessness and continue to meditate on this truth of selflessness. And then you will notice you enter into the next phase of the practice, which is called the path of meditation. Of course, you've been meditating all the way along, but this is the super mundane path of meditation. You were meditating before, but it was worldly because it was you doing the meditation. Now it's like the meditation is happening, but you, the individual self, is not doing it.

[109:32]

So it's super mundane meditation. It's called the path of meditation. Now in this path, the final working out of the wonderful consequences of this vision start to take place because what you notice then is that there are habits, there are behavior patterns which are arising in your body, speech, and mind. And you see, you understand that there's no individual person doing these things, and yet these things were habits that developed prior to this realization. So of course, some of them don't make sense in terms of this realization. So somebody insults you, somebody says something insulting about your name, And you know that there's no substantial thing there connected with that name. So there's no problem. Whatever they want about Reb or Pierre or whatever, it's not a problem because there's nobody there to collect the pain. And you're comfortable with it. Actually, it's wonderful.

[110:34]

You know? Now, if they kick you, that's different. That still hurts. But then you've got patience and samadhi to help you, like, you know, take care of yourself under those circumstances, deal with the pain. But you're not personally insulted anymore by that kid. You just have a dent, you know. You still have to be compassionate with that pain, though, but you don't have the pain of worrying about yourself being defamed anymore. You don't have that one. However, even though you don't have that problem, even though you don't have that problem, you still act like you do. Because you've got this habit which is like, okay, you are a creep, and you've got this habit which says, oh, okay, well, I know what to do with you now. You're going to get it. And then it pops out there, some comment, some really brilliant comment, now, of course, because you're so enlightened. Yes, Annette? Before I go to college, Where does forgiveness come in in all of this?

[111:37]

Because I think the depth of the self... Where do you want it to come in? Tell me a place. I was thinking that to get to the selflessness aspect, all the people in all the books are coming out about anger. I think it's an issue that a lot of people are dealing with. Yeah. Good. So if anger, forgiveness is the major aspect, does that fall into the selflessness part of the circle? I think part of forgiveness, I feel, would just apply to the confession practice. And if you learn how to practice confession skillfully, you feel forgiven. There's forgiving in it when you can confess in a relaxed and skillful way. So the confession, the forgiveness is forgiving yourself all the way along the way at your own skillfulness in practicing samadhi, for example. Which is also... It pervades two, three, and four. It's there for any kind of unskillfulness in the practice that you're trying to do.

[112:39]

You confess it, and forgiveness is part of what makes the confession roll forward smoothly. But in the path of meditation, there's lots of habits which are still sort of set up in your body, which go off. like that, but they don't go with your vision anymore. So you feel weird that you're doing things, you know, like there's nobody here and there's an assault here, so why is there this wisecrack? Why is there this snapping back? So you juxtapose with the samadhi, you bring your wisdom together and apply it to the behavior. the insight gets juxtaposed with the behavior in samadhi. And every time that happens, you get to see how silly that habit, which you don't really go for, you're not on that page anymore. But that juxtaposition needs to occur, I often say, seventeen times before the habit drops.

[113:47]

And then the behavior that comes is the behavior that is in accord with the insight. But there needs to be lots of juxtapositions of the insight with the old habit which arose from ignorance. There needs to be juxtaposition, and that's the path of meditation, or I sometimes call it the path of scrubbing the habits with the insight. And the path of meditation...

[114:10]

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