Earlier this morning, how's the sound? Okay? Earlier this morning, the ninth major bodhisattva precept of the family was raised. It's the precept called, Not Being Angry. And the commentary by Dogen is, in English, not withdrawn, not set forth, neither real nor unreal. Here are oceans of illuminated clouds, oceans of magnificent clouds.

[01:15]

This seems to me to be a description of being upright, in the middle of anger and also in the middle of any phenomena. It resonates with the Precious Mere Samadhi where it says, way and touching are both wrong. For it is like a massive fire. Now this massive fire is the suchness of any phenomena. the teaching of suchness, the teaching of thusness is transmitted to us and the way to take care of it is meeting any phenomena, not turning away and not touching.

[02:46]

It also resonates with if you're excited you fall into a pit. If you hesitate, you're lost in retrospective second-thinking, second-guessing. Comment on this precept by Dragan, for me, seems to be bringing the precious mirror samadhi to meet anything, but in particular to meet anger. In modern language, rather than saying neither withdrawn

[03:58]

brought forth could be neither repressed nor acted out. The repression or the acting out follow from not being intimate with the anger in the first place. Not being angry means being intimate with the anger. And being intimate with it is not to withdraw from it or bring it forth. Anger itself is not karma. It's a phenomenon that exists in karmic along with many other phenomena

[05:05]

karmic self-consciousness. The karma of the moment where there's anger, the present, is the overall with the karma. When we have a consciousness and there's karma in it, and we're upright, withdrawing or bringing forth. That not withdrawing and bringing forth is the overall way of relating to the anger. And there are oceans of illuminated clouds. There is wisdom. There is becoming free of karma in that moment.

[06:08]

But it's a fire. It's challenging to be intimate with it. It's challenging because of lots of history, of karmic history, of turning away from the fire or touching it. and even this phenomena, anger or any phenomena, which it actually embodies the teaching of suchness, it is awesome and tremendous. And tremendous comes from tremble. we might tremble in the presence of anything.

[07:22]

And while we're trembling, even then, we can be upright and not turn away from it, the trembling and what we're trembling with, or try to touch it or control it. if we can be this way with anger, then that is our overall way of being with it. And that intimacy gives rise to... that intimacy is the karma of the moment, but it's a karma which freezes from karma. It's non-karma, as in non-thinking. It's beyond karma. Not turning away or touching is beyond karma.

[08:31]

In the midst of karma. So when we do speak or gesture or think in a moment, we have the opportunity to, in the midst of that thinking, speaking, to raise the Dharma flag, to express the Buddha mind seal. Right in the middle of the anger. But it's hot, it's hot there, it's trembling, it's challenging. to remember, to invoke the Grandmother Mind and remember that this situation, this hot, burning energy is an opportunity to practice the Buddha Way and that the Buddha Way cannot be other than this moment.

[09:52]

That whatever we do, it cannot be other than that. It's not that the anger is the Buddha way. It's that the Buddha way cannot than this moment of anger. If we say that this anger or our way of responding is the Buddha way, it somewhat confines the Buddha way. If we remember that the Buddha way cannot be other than this moment of consciousness, it doesn't confine the Buddha way and also doesn't confine the present moment of speech and mind karma.

[11:02]

And with the translation of the precept not being angry, it doesn't, for me, mean no anger. It says not being angry. So there's anger here, but we don't have to be the anger. If we're intimate with the anger, we're not abiding in it, we're not We are just living in intimate friendship with this heat, this energy that has arisen under the auspices of the whole universe. It is respect. It is asking for compassion. It is a gift calling for compassion. It is not asking to be destroyed.

[12:16]

And it is also not really asking to be inhabited or dwelled in. So the precept of not being angry can be understood as not abiding in the anger and also not abiding in anything. The bodhisattva mind which doesn't abide in anything, in colors, smells, tastes, tangibles, greed, anger, confusion, fear. It doesn't dwell in anything. How does it not dwell in anything? By being intimate with anything. And it's difficult to be intimate with many things, basically all of them, because they're all are presenting the teaching of suchness in their reality, which opens to us as intimate.

[13:21]

And we need to become intimate with the trembling we feel as we become more intimate. So not being angry I hear as not abiding in anger. I hear as be intimate with anger and therefore not be angry. Right in the middle of your karmic consciousness, be intimate and not abide in the whole scene or any element in it. And then we have the teaching of thusness realized. And Grandmother and mine remember, every moment is an opportunity to realize the teaching of suchness.

[14:25]

And the teaching of suchness cannot be realized some other place than this present body and mind. And then this one. we could now stroll, you know, through various koan collections. For example, the Book of Serenity, case one. One day, the world-honored one ascended the seat and sat. It doesn't say how long the world-honored one sat But anyway, for some moment the World Honored One sat. Manjushri felt moved to announce what was going on and struck the gavel.

[15:38]

Clearly observe the Dharma of the Sovereign of Dharma. Clearly observe the dharma of the sovereign of dharma. The dharma of the sovereign of dharma is thus. The world-honored one did not tell people that. Manjushri did. One's presentation was, in a sense, more pure. Just sit. It's right there. Wholehearted sitting. The World Honored One wholeheartedly demonstrated wholehearted sitting. That's how Manjushri told them what was going on.

[16:44]

clearly observed the wholehearted sitting of the sovereign of wholehearted sitting." The wholehearted sitting of the sovereign of wholehearted sitting is thus. I hadn't heard this story, but one day the World Honored One ascended the seat and burst into flames. And Manjushri said, clearly observe the dharma of the sovereign of dharma. Clearly observe the wholehearted sitting of the teacher of wholehearted sitting, the teaching of the wholehearted sitting, the teaching of the sovereign of wholehearted sitting. So it's how to balance between.

[18:02]

Between, but neither. Leaning into it or leaning away from it. How to be balanced and not ignore it, but not be it. And also to not not be it. neither real nor unreal. Yesterday I told a story about one day when I was, I should say, when Suzuki Roshi came and sat in the dining room, he was sitting on the floor.

[19:07]

He didn't ascend the seat. He sat on the floor on a Zapaton, facing the altar. And I said that I was perpendicular to him, hidden in Mokugyo. Later I thought, I wasn't really perpendicular I was more like at about, like if I was right in front of him, I would have been at one, I would have been right in front of him. If I was half, if I was halfway to perpendicular, I would have been 45 degrees. I was about 80 degrees, not perpendicular, because when he looked at me, he didn't need to move his head. like Julian's like at about 90 or 92 degrees from me right now. He's a little bit more than perpendicular. So I can't see him out of the corner of my eyes. And I can see Fu, but if I look at her right now, you don't see me looking at you, do you, Fu?

[20:12]

And even if I look at Linda, I don't think Linda sees me looking at her. Linda, did you see? Not quite. But Jackie, if I look at Jackie, you can see me look at you, can't you? So I was somewhere over there between... He didn't move his head. He didn't turn his head towards me. That was for an event. If I was hitting Mokugyo and he was looking ahead and then he went like this. He didn't turn his head towards me. He... gazed at me intimately without moving his head. Like that. Or like this. Sarah and Tim, you don't see me looking at you, do you? No, but Linda, you can see me looking at you, right? Linda? And Kat, you can see me, right? That's the way it was.

[21:17]

He wasn't turning his head. That would have been a One might have thought he was saying, don't do that or something like that. I don't know what, but it would have been more pointed. It was pointed, but not too pointed. It was pointed enough for me to know what was going on and wonder what it was and stop looking at him for a while. This is a fire also. And another story which many of you have heard many times is we were on an airplane flying to Portland and

[22:19]

he was sitting to my right, not my left. That's my memory. And sitting to my right, he did not turn his head to the left and look at me and say, I want you to count people in Japanese. He didn't. I don't remember him turning and looking at me. Kind of continues looking straight ahead. maybe turning his head a little bit, but not a 90-degree turn. So he's next to me, and he tells me to count people in Japanese, and he teaches me how to count people in Japanese from 1 to 10. He didn't teach me how to count people in Japanese above 10. And then after he taught me, he said, now you do it. But again, I wasn't looking at him like this, and he wasn't looking at me like that.

[23:26]

I was listening and he was talking, both kind of facing forward. I didn't particularly feel like he was teaching me the precept of not being angry. But I do feel he was teaching me the precept of clearly observe. Clearly observe the teaching of the teacher of the Dharma. And I did wonder if this was a Dharma teaching because it just seemed like counting people in Japanese rather than teaching the Jomir Samadhi. Now I would say he was teaching the Jewelmere Samadhi in the form of teaching me to count people in Japanese.

[24:31]

On another occasion, he told me he was going to teach me the harmony of difference and unity, and then he went ahead and I fell asleep. But in this case, He didn't say, I'm going to teach you the precious mirror samadhi, but I think that's what he was teaching me. But he taught me in the form of counting people I could stay awake. However, although I stayed awake and counted people in Japanese out loud, he fell asleep. When he fell asleep, I didn't turn to the right and look at him. I didn't look at him. I could see he was falling asleep without looking at him because his head went forward. And when his head went forward,

[25:49]

I stopped counting. And again, he's teaching Samadhi, right? So, when I stopped counting, his head came up and he said, you know, the word for counting one person in Japanese, story. In other words, start counting again. And then I did. And then he fell asleep. And then I stopped. And when I stopped, he said again, shtori. And I started counting again.

[26:53]

Shtori, futari, san-nim, yo-nim. Roku-nin, Shichi-nin, Hachi-nin, Ku-nin, To. To, I guess, is an old-fashioned word for ten people. And then he went back to sleep. And I think he slept the rest of the way to Portland. The Buddha way is none other than what he and I were doing on that plane. And was the thought, was the wondering, is this really the Precious Mirror Samadhi? Or is this kind of like a kid's version of it for me?

[27:55]

But I didn't... I just thought, okay, I'll just continue. And I did. And as a result, I did kind of learn how to count people in Japanese. And... Yeah. 51 years later, I can still count people in Japanese. Yes. is 11 people. How do you say 11? I did turn my head just now. But he didn't need to turn his head. He was sitting right next to me, so I don't feel like he turned his head at all.

[29:02]

After all, he doesn't need to turn his head because he's talking to himself, himself in the form of his mind. We are, you know, we are the real Suzuki Roshi. And I question if I in any of these stories. Is there anything anyone wishes to offer?

[30:16]

There is. Could you move that way, please? Could you move that way, please? Could you move here? And the people who raised their hands may come up. Perfect. I had a follow-up question.

[31:19]

Okay. He has a follow-up question. Could you hear him say that? Okay. They can hear you. Yes? Yeah. Okay. Great. Great. Some at least can hear me. You told a story yesterday about Suzuki Roshi making a drawing and one of them was sticking out. And you offered an interpretation of what you thought he meant you wanted to teach. I think about lifting everyone else up. About what? Did you say lifting other people up? The characters, I think, said, visiting others' rooms. So he didn't want me to visit other people's rooms, I think. Wasn't there another part in that? Go ahead.

[32:20]

Didn't you say something about, how is that related to the one arrow sticking out? I think he was saying, you know, you're kind of good at some things. You know, he didn't say what, but you're kind of good at X. But some of the lagging behind. And I'd like to mention one of the things that's kind of lagging behind. So then he wrote this monastic precept that I wasn't following. At least some of the time I was visiting somebody's room And he didn't want to tell me not to, but also I said, he said, I don't want to tell you to do that. I said, but you want me to do it. He said, yes. So he did tell me specifically. That doesn't mean that was the only thing, but that was the thing on that occasion that I wasn't doing a good job on.

[33:23]

It was one of my shortcomings that he was bringing up and telling me to work on that. Not just be good at part of the practice, all aspects, all those other four lines. Well, I misunderstood you yesterday then. Never mind. Okay. So he misunderstood me, but anyway. I won't say it. Okay. Just a second, I think someone's coming up. Thank you for the question, Roshi. I have a question about karmic consciousness.

[34:28]

We've been talking about that and talking about karma, and I was wondering if you would explain a little bit more how you're using the term karma. Sometimes it's been explained to me as cause and effect, that karma is just the kind of law of cause and effect. And it brings to mind the koan where the priest was turned into a fox. An enlightened person is free of cause and effect. I was thinking maybe of dealing with that koan about the wild fox tomorrow. But before that I'll mention that people use the word karma. The basic Buddhist way the Buddha taught was karma means action.

[35:28]

And in particular, it's the type of action which is the overall pattern of a moment of consciousness. Usually used to apply, for example, to your fingernails growing or a knee-jerk reaction when you get tapped on the knee. Those are actions, but they're not the pattern of your consciousness. karma that the Buddha gave. But people also use karma for the law by which karma works. So the Buddha also taught that the definition of karma is chetana, which is thinking. The thinking that's going on in our mind is a different definition that's defining this moment of consciousness. And the consciousness is that shape of our... the karma is the shape of our consciousness.

[36:33]

And the Buddha also taught that karma has consequence. So that's a teaching about karma. It's not karma itself. It's the teaching that karma has consequence. And wholesome karma has beneficial consequences. Unwholesome karma, unbeneficial or harmful. Wholesome karma promotes practicing and understanding karma. Unwholesome karma interferes with us understanding karma. So, and also people use karma for the effect. Like they say, that's my karma, or that's your karma. Like something happens, karma. And they usually are referring to an effect. Sometimes if I have a headache and say, that's my karma. Or they're rich and they say, that's my karma. Or they're poor and that's calling karma by the effect of the karma.

[37:37]

But the definition is action, which is thinking. And the koan is asking, does a highly cultivated person fall into, basically do they fall into, I think it says, they fall into cause and effect. So do they fall into the process of karma and results? That was the question. But I thought maybe I would talk about that tomorrow, that story. So just to kind of clarify, so it's the pattern of consciousness at any moment, our thinking. That's the definition. Yeah, and sometimes it could be wholesome and sometimes less wholesome. And sometimes it's unclear.

[38:41]

Yeah, and so is it something that we're trying to transcend or is it just... what we are being intimate with. And being intimate with it, you're entering... When you're free of karma, you're free of it. You're free, yeah. So that's what the koan's about. It's about being intimate with karma. And then falling into or not falling into are not necessarily intimate. And when we... my twisted karma as a result of beginningless greed, hatred and delusion. Is that that kind of karma or that's more referring to the causal or the effects of these mind patterns? The pattern in my consciousness is that I'm chanting, and maybe that I want to chant, and I'm okay with chanting.

[39:49]

That's the way I'm thinking, is I'm thinking all my ancient twisted karma, and also my thinking is now being expressed verbally. I'm thinking mental karma, all my ancient twisted karma, and vocal karma, saying it out loud. You can also think inwardly, or imagine just karma, and that's mental karma. So it is both thought followed by speech. So it is karma. And the purpose of that karma is to help us be intimate and liberated in the midst of karmic life. Not getting rid of karmic life, because that would be getting rid of because consciousness always has a karmic pattern. Again, sometimes it's not clear whether it's wholesome or unwholesome.

[40:50]

Sometimes it really does seem to be unwholesome. And a highly cultivated person would be able to see, oh, that is unwholesome. is wholesome and this is kind of neutral. So the Buddha taught this and recommended people look at consciousness and observe what kind of moral quality, what kind of skillfulness level was going on of the consciousness. That's part of becoming intimate with consciousness is to study I said consciousness, which is true, but in particular to study the overall pattern of consciousness, part of it is to look and see what the pattern appears to be. And then to observe that. And by observing the patterns of our thinking, we become intimate with our thinking and realize great compassion and non-thinking wisdom.

[41:58]

So then back to that chant, because I've been kind of thinking about that and observing myself chanting it, and so it isn't referring to what happened in the past that I'm bringing forward through this kind of causal thing, or it's more just acknowledging there were mind states? It's not necessarily bringing things forward, but it is acknowledging that I am the result of lots of moments of karma. Okay. While we're doing that chant, sometimes something from the past may pop up. I think people have that experience sometimes. And also during our confessions and repentance ceremony that we do on the full and new moons, when doing that ceremony, sometimes people maybe think of some unskillful thing they did.

[43:09]

in that context and maybe become intimate with it and observe it with compassion. That might happen. We're not necessarily intentionally trying to bring some particular actions to mind when we're doing that chant, but they may come. Thank you. You're welcome. Does that ever happen to any of you? That something comes to your mind? Yeah. It can happen. I think John was next. Assembly. Respect to the assembly. So first in confession, I noticed myself get angry today and other days recently too. You noticed some anger arising in your consciousness?

[44:13]

Not just in consciousness, in my conduct. Or you acted, you brought it forth? So I confess and repent. Could you hear what he said? He said he noticed anger in his consciousness and he also brought it forth, acted it out. And he confesses and repents that. When I was a little boy, my dad was kind of angry, you know. Like he drank and then he quit drinking, but he was still angry. And so that was the means of power in my family. He didn't hit us. Would you talk more slowly? I heard you say he was angry. And then what did you say after that? When he quit drinking, he was still angry. He didn't hit us, but it was his way of controlling us. So that's my way, too.

[45:15]

That's my default method. I think I tried to make someone else angry. So I wonder, I feel like, you know, when I heard your name the very first time, if I'm remembering, I thought tension sounds like the word tension, like deep. And I thought, oh, that's kind of like anxiety or fear. And sometimes I feel like that when I'm practicing with you or in a community. So I wondered, what about dwelling in fear as well, or fear as opposed to anger? Yeah, same, same. we don't have a precept called not being afraid, but I think we could have another precept called not being afraid, but the problem with that is that people might think you're not supposed to be afraid. But I think the same applies to fear, that the bodhisattva vows to become intimate with

[46:20]

...in order to liberate beings from fear. Thank you for your practice. You're welcome. Was there another? Yes? I'm somehow feeling really tender around your stories about Suzuki Roshi not looking at you. And what came to my mind was, I've heard stories, I can't... Can you hear her okay?

[47:25]

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes? No? They can hear you. Okay. Hoitsu is Suzuki Roshi's oldest son. And so he came to her mind. And I can't remember anything specific, but what I remember understanding, like in the early days of being at Zen Center, is that they for some time had a difficult or painful relationship. The father and the son. The father and the son. Yeah. And I wondered, I don't know if there's any way you can answer this, but I wondered if he looked directly at Hoitsu. I wondered. I wonder too. But I think he was, yeah, I think he was, he saw Hojitsu as his successor.

[48:32]

And I think he, I think in the early days of Hojitsu's life, I think Suzuki Roshi was very strict with him. You might even say harsh. one time Suzuki Roshi, I think, threw Hoitsu into the pond in the back of the temple because I think he and his sisters caught some fish at the temple. Caught some fish. I don't know if they caught it in the pond because there were fish in the pond. I don't know. But anyway, he threw Hoitsu into the pond. And that's pretty rough, pretty strict. And then, as many of you know, this terrible tragedy happened that a monk killed Susakurashi's wife and killed Hoitsu's mother in the temple.

[49:38]

that had a, my impression is that had a major transformative effect on Suzuki Roshi. I think it made him much more gentle because his strictness kind of led to the situation of this monk being in the temple. And I think after that he was very sorry and felt great sadness for his children's losing their mother, and was much more gentle and tender with them. I think as a result, when he came to America, he was, by and large, very gentle with us, with some spectacular exceptions. But basically, with me, he was very gentle. Did Hoitsu come visit while Suzuki Roshi was still alive when he was at Zen Center?

[50:47]

Mm-hmm. Yeah. What did that look like to you? It looked, yeah, it looked very, you know, well... Suzuki Roshi, I think, was kind of formal with Hoitsu still, but... Yeah, just very, I think, calm and formal with him. And Hoitsu was very respectful and formal with his father. They weren't, I didn't, playing around. Sugureshi, I think, I felt like he was more playful with his American students than he was with his son. And Hoitsu also, I feel, was quite playful with children and some of the students at Zen Center. I didn't see him being particularly . But, you know, maybe they were sometimes, but I didn't see that. But I certainly, in other situations, see Hoitsu being quite playful and Suzuki Roshi being quite playful.

[51:52]

But their relationship you know, for both of them being so important that they were normal about it. But I never saw any harshness in either direction. I just thought I saw a lot of mutual respect, mutual devotion. But it wasn't, I didn't see playfulness. But I didn't, you know, I didn't see that much. Yeah, kind of like your story in a way, like the formalness is a way to be gentle. And Suzuki Roshi was informal with people in a very friendly way. Like I particularly maybe mentioned that we American Zen students, both Asian and non-Asian, both black and white.

[52:54]

We went to Zazen almost every day. But on Sunday, these Americans came to the temple, and I saw him one time talking to some of the middle-aged congregation members, and he was really quite jovial, and everybody was kind of laughing at, you know, having a really good time. And I thought, he's different. He's different with them. And around that time also I heard him say that for acquaintances we can be informal, it's fine. But for intimate, when we're intimate with people, we need some formality. So again, I did see him be quite informal with people. And I thought, wow, he does that with some people. but I felt like with some of his students who he was quite formal with, but I also think quite intimate.

[53:57]

So I think that's why he didn't even look at me when he gave me instruction. We were so close. The formality helps realize the intimacy. The formality, I think he was saying, we need formality to realize intimacy. We need it. It doesn't mean we can't be intimate and informal. But I think he was saying we do need it and he did use it. In his most intimate relationship there was formality. There was formality with his wife. that we knew. They were formal with each other, but they were intimate. She called him Suzuki-boshi. And, yeah, they really respected each other, and there was an element of formality.

[54:58]

Maybe other times, you know, and then sometimes it was informal. Like one time he'd, And there's a picture, I think, of her sort of whacking him with a fan. Do you know that picture? It's kind of like admonishing him with a fan. So they're kind of informal. And then one time we were moving rocks outside the cabin at Tassajara, and she came out and kind of gave him some instruction. a little bit barking maybe, telling him what to do. And, you know, he listened to her. But under his breath, he made some comment about her to me that, you know, it would be good for her to, you know, be reined in a bit. Stay out of the rocks. Anyways, he was kind of a wisecrack. And I was kind of surprised that he was kind of like a little bit like

[56:03]

What's rebelling against her instruction? That was kind of informal. Yeah. But, yeah, so. Yeah. we can use formality to be intimate and we can be intimate formally. And the nice thing about formal intimacy is that everybody who practices that form can be intimate through that form. It's not like... but the way he was intimate, the way he was informal with those ladies in the congregation That doesn't necessarily work with everybody, and that wasn't so intimate. And if he got more intimate with them in that informal way, we wouldn't have been able to understand that. But the formality is, yes, they're intimate, like, yeah, they sit next to each other.

[57:13]

He offers her incense. That's a really intimate thing to do. But everybody that wants form can have that intimacy. It's not just for that person. Other people can do that same form and, you know, hold that same stick of incense and offer in that same way. So the form means everybody can be intimate through the form and other people can and they aren't jealous because they know that they could do that too. Or they probably aren't jealous because they know the form's available to everybody. But you have to learn the form, and then that's got its problems. Yes. Yes, Linda. I think, yeah, thank you. I appreciate Sarah asking that question about Tsukiroshi and Hoitsu and hearing the story right now, hearing it about how Tsukiroshi was, you said harsh, I would say cruel to his son and that

[58:46]

And that may be his delusion about his idea of strict... Excuse me. I kind of didn't follow. I've heard you say that in the story I told about Sukershi throwing Hoitsu into the pond sounded cruel to you. And then I kind of lost what you said after that. Okay. You ready? Mm-hmm. And that even more than that, I could say that his delusion about strictness created conditions, created karma that was at least partly responsible for the killing of those children's mother. Yeah. That's a very, you know, really terrible... It's terrible. And it's part of the great pain of his life.

[59:53]

I appreciate hearing that story because, you know, usually when we hear about Suzuki Roshi, we're bathed in light that it's good to hear the rest of the story. He evolved. Yeah. He was not always the Suzuki Roshi we knew. Yeah. Yeah. So it actually helps me appreciate him to know that he's so cruel. And, excuse me, I almost feel like I'm insulting a saint or something, but when I say cruel and deluded, I think that, and I feel more in, I feel terrible about that, but I also feel some encouragement that Yeah, that no matter what your karma manifests. Yeah. Yeah. So the thing I want to ask you is, you spoke about the precept of not being angry.

[60:59]

And then just now you said, I wouldn't want to say not to fear because it sounds like you shouldn't fear. I would think the same thing is about you'd think you shouldn't be angry. So I wondered if it might be better to say... You could say that, too. Or would it be any different? I don't remember the character. If it's, you know, we say, sometimes anger is appropriate. But it's never appropriate. But hatred is never appropriate. You can be really angry but not hate in the slightest. So ill will is no. Buddha says no. He didn't say you can't be angry and be my student, but if you have ill will, you're no.

[62:03]

But I think the character is more like for anger, and sometimes anger I think the character is anger, not hate. So the thing is not to dwell on the anger. Pretty good. Can you hear me now? Hmm? No? You can't hear me? Can you hear me now? No? You can't hear me? Better? Okay. I think it's because she... When he was angry, people did sometimes see him be angry, but he was angry and then it was over. He didn't hang out in it. But sometimes people, I never saw it, but sometimes people said, in the early days of Zen Center, he sometimes dwelled in the anger a little bit. So it's not telling people, I don't tell people you shouldn't be afraid.

[63:06]

But I do want them to be compassionate to the fear so they aren't imprisoned by it or dwell in it. So by being compassionate with fear and anger, dwell in it, we can live with it and be friends with it and use the anger as an opportunity to realize the Buddha way and show other people how to be with anger and fear. And of course anger and fear are closely related. Should we be compassionate with hate? Be compassionate with hate? Definitely be compassionate with hate and be intimate with it. Okay, thank you. Be intimate with hate too, yes. So there's this, I guess the hearing aid kind of makes it harder for you to hear, but easier for me to hear. Yeah, right, my voice. Yeah, it's... Yeah, yeah. Anything else this morning?

[64:12]

Sorry if anything useful was said. Could you hear that, ma'am? So tomorrow I thought I would talk about that koan about falling into cosmic cause and effect. Cause and effect, but I think it's understood as karmic cause and effect.

[64:47]

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