In morning service today, did you start the chanting of Chapter 8? Yes. The translation we're reciting is from Tibetan, and we also have two translations from Chinese. The original was Sanskrit. The Tibetan translation is called the Questions of Maitreya, the Bodhisattva Maitreya. The Chinese are called, are translated as Analysis of Centering or Analysis of Yoga. And in the text that we translated this morning, the bodhisattva Maitreya asked the Bhagavan, abiding in what and depending on what do bodhisattvas in the great vehicle cultivate shamatha and tranquility and insight.

[01:27]

And this translation said, Maitreya abiding in and depending upon unwavering resolution to expound the doctrinal teachings and to become unsurpassably perfectly enlightened. do bodhisattvas cultivate shalmatan vipashyana. This translation is emphasizing that the bodhisattvas depend on and abide in this unwavering resolution to expound, to teach the doctrinal teachings and to attain supreme perfect awakening.

[02:31]

A lot of people who I meet who are practicing, who are devoting their life to the practice of the Buddha way, even the practice of Mahayana, sometimes think I'm going to really be teaching this stuff. But this says that the bodhisattvas who practice this yoga practice, this bodhisattva yoga practice, unwavering resolution to expound the regular doctrinal teachings like this sutra. This is related to the third of the four vows that we often chant, the dharma gate. a boundless I-bao, to enter a gate.

[03:51]

And enter is often used for the deepest understanding of something. The actual original Chinese says more like understand or master. But enter is good too. It means that you would understand and actually enter into and become the teaching. But part of the bodhisattva vow is that you're, these great vows anyway, is that you're actually vowing to learn all the teachings into understanding them and teaching them. And I guess we can all consider whether we really want to do that. The Chinese translations are close. Mostly related, but quite different, because they say that, they ask, you know, what's abiding in and depending on what, or, you know, what's the support and the station of the bodhisattvas who do this practice, and they say that their support, their... And their station is in the conventional teachings, the conventional expositions of the teachings.

[05:10]

and the commitment to supreme awakening. So it's more like saying supported by the teachings and supported by the commitment to attain supreme awakening. It doesn't say that they're supported by the commitment to both teach the teachings and attain enlightenment. The first one says they're supported by the commitment, the determination, the resolution to teach these teachings. And it also says expound. There's many ways to teach them. You could teach these teachings by working in the kitchen. But the point is you understand that as you're working in the kitchen that you're teaching the Samdhenya Morchana Sutra, you're teaching the Lotus Sutra, You're teaching the Heart Sutra. You're teaching the middle-linked discourses of the Buddha when you're working.

[06:21]

You understand that what you're doing is expounding these teachings, and you understand how what you're doing is expounding these teachings. If anybody asks you any questions, you can show them, like hand them a shovel or give them a seven-hour Dharma talk. or do a dance. You can expound it in many ways, but the point is that you are expounding it. The other one says, no, we depend on these teachings and we depend on the commitment to a little bit different emphasis in the two translations, the different Chinese and Tibetan But either way, there's a problem. In one case, you're going to teach these teachings. The other way is these teachings are going to be your stance. You're going to stand in these teachings.

[07:23]

And in one case, you're not just going to stand in them, you're going to expound them. In both cases, you're getting intimate with all the teachings of the all the position. And one translation says, all the provisional setups. And then Maitreya says, the Bhagavan has taught that there are four objects of shamatha and vipassana. One, conceptual images. Two, non-conceptual images. Three, the limits of phenomena.

[08:25]

And four, the accomplishment of purpose. How many of these objects are observation for Samatha, for tranquility? And the Buddha says, one, the non-conceptual images. And then, how many are objects of observation? And the Buddha replies, only one, conceptual images. How many are objects of observation for both, Samatha and Vipassana? There are two, the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of the purpose. The limited phenomena means all phenomena, both conventional and ultimate.

[09:38]

So all compounded, all conventionalities and all ultimates, namely emptiness. So Samatha and Vipassana observe all phenomena, both conventional and ultimate, and Samatha and Vipassana observe, they actually observe the accomplishment of the purpose. the accomplishment of awakening. Maitreya then asked, how do bodhisattvas seek shamatha and become skilled in vipassana. How do they seek tranquility and how do they become skilled in vipassana, insight.

[10:38]

And then the Buddhist says, I've set forth all these teachings, twelve different sections of teachings, and then bodhisattvas hear well, comprehend well, repeat well, analyze well, and through insight fully realize all these different teachings. And then remaining in seclusion and having genuinely settled their minds inwardly, they mentally attend to those doctrines just as they have been contemplated. So they listen to these teachings and then they settle down and then they contemplate these teachings in accord with the way that they've understood. And then, so in a sense you can say, oh, what they do is they meditate on the teachings, like for example the teachings of this chapter, and then they settle down and then they meditate on the teachings.

[11:58]

...is tranquility, and the meditation on the teachings is the vipassana. And then what happens next is, I think, is that now the Buddha gives more detailed instructions about how to practice tranquility. Mental attention. They mentally attend to that mind which is mentally contemplated by any mind. That's the basic instruction. Mentally attend with continuous mental attention, mentally attend to that mind which is contemplated by any mind. That's the basic instruction, with continuous mental attention contemplate that mind which is contemplated by any mind.

[13:05]

Sure. I'll say some of the other translations might help. In continuity, in the continuity, in the continuity of their inner mind, they focus and reflect. checking in to the continuity of their inner mind, they focus and reflect, and repeatedly abide in this correct practice of, in the continuity of their inner minds, they focus and reflect. And then one more translation, they attentively meditate on the inner stream They attentively meditate on the inner stream of the meditating consciousness. I'll go back to this.

[14:19]

I'll finish the paragraph by saying, with continuous mental attention they mentally attend They mentally attend to that mind which is contemplated by all minds. The mental and physical pliancy through engaging in this practice of mentally attending to the mind which is contemplated by any mind, by engaging in this practice in this way, they Continuing in this practice, is shamatha the mental and physical plianphy that arises continuously contemplating the mind which is contemplated by any mind? So the continuous mental attention to contemplate in the mind which is contemplated by any mind, the continuous mental attention to the mind contemplated by any mind gives rise to a state of pliancy, physical and mental.

[15:50]

The state of pliancy is called shamatha. The sutra doesn't say so, but you could call this continuous mental attention, which is contemplated by any mind, you could call that shamatha training or tranquility training. But tranquility is actually the state that arises, the state of pliancy that arises. I think it might be good to just describe the state of shamatha a little bit more before I go into the basic practice. So, the pliancy or the yin of body and mind that arises from continuously engaging in this practice is called in Sanskrit prashrabdhi.

[17:04]

Pliancy, flexibility, yin. And this is, you know, in early Abhidharma and later Abhidharma, it's one of the ten mental factors. And it refers to the fitness for action that freely applies full energy, a body and mind, towards all good purposes. The state of fitness for action. that can freely be applied to any kind of wholesome activity. This ease comes from relaxing. And it removes all obstacles. It actually says this ease comes from relaxing rigidity, but I think that's somewhat redundant.

[18:11]

What kind of rigidity does it come from relaxing? It comes from relaxing the rigid adherence to contemplating conceptual objects. We are rigidly habituated to pay attention to objects. is asking us to relax with that and now pay attention not to objects of mind, but to mind. Asanga says, pliancy is supreme happiness and joy that is preceded by faith and clarity. What's the faith in this case? The faith is the faith that it would be a good idea to practice continuous mental attention to attending to the mind which is contemplated by any mind.

[19:25]

It's faith that it would be good to meditate on the inner stream of the meditating consciousness continuously. And being clear about this instruction gives rise according to a Sangha. Gradually making the mind joyful, pliancy eliminates non-virtuous class of errant tendencies. And then I was thinking that prashrabdhi is It's a temporary relief from the afflictive influences of a liar. It's a temporary relief, rigid predisposition towards conventional designation. Which in this, to implement this predisposition towards conventional designation, we need to use discursive thought.

[20:39]

It is relaxing with our discursive thought. Another definition of prasraddhi besides ease or this explanation of it, I should say, is freedom from subconscious conditions. So in a sense, this kind of training of looking to the mind which is contemplated by any mind temporarily freezes from the subconscious content of alaya. To say the basic definition of the object of contemplation for Samatha is a non-conceptual image.

[21:44]

Another way to say it is An object not accompanied by images for reflection. An object or even an image which is not accompanied by conceptual images. And so now, that is contemplated by any mind? What is this inner stream of the meditating consciousness? And maybe I'll just say right away this question that has been looming for a week or so. Is this stream of the meditating consciousness, is this mind which is contemplated by any mind,

[22:48]

Is that a lie? And it's also, by the way, this is also called the uninterrupted mind. So, Samatha sometimes said to be mental attention to the uninterrupted mind. Is that a lie? Well, a lie is an uninterrupted mind, but it is actually interrupted by death. And it also is interrupted by the attainment of certain levels of awakening. But it also says that mind is contemplated by any mind. And so what mind is contemplated by any mind? Well, alaya is one of the minds that you could contemplate, but you can also contemplate the mind, the consciousness, which is called the mind organ.

[24:03]

You can also contemplate mind consciousness. All three of the mind, thought, and intellect are actually consciousnesses, are actually mind. And all three of them are actually called transformations of So mind is all three, is each of them. It's all of them and each of them. So that's why I think it's not really that when we're practicing tranquility that we're actually meditating on a laya. The inner stream of the meditating mind includes and relates to the laya, but I think we're looking at something a kind of cognition that's even less graspable. Malaya might be. Now, as you know, some people practice tranquility by following or counting the breath.

[25:28]

And that's not mentioned here. The second ancestor in our lineage in Japan, named Kon Eijo Daisho, he wrote a text once called absorption in the treasury of light. I like to say absorption in the womb of light. And in there he says, trust everything to inhalation and exhalation. Trust everything to breathing in and breathing out. And then into the womb of light. and don't look back. Leaping into the womb of light today I would suggest is meditating on the inner stream of the meditating consciousness.

[26:49]

trusting everything to the inhalation and exhalation. In other words, perhaps following your inhalation and exhalation, putting all your attention on that, being with the inhalation and exhalation with no conceptual reflection. not even this is an inhalation or exhalation, you might start that way, but to the inhalation and exhalation approaches being with the inhalation and exhalation without any objects for reflection of that. In that way, you're starting to look at the mind The mind.

[28:04]

Not the reflections, but the mind itself. What mind? The uninterrupted mind. The mind that's uninterrupted by all the transformations into mind, consciousness, and intellect. The mind is Alaya, Manas, and Manavijnana. It's transformed into sense consciousnesses. There's an uninterrupted mind, an inner mind that's uninterrupted. And then he says, after you leap into the womb of light, don't look back. Continuously attend to this womb of light. This womb of light as an object of contemplation for tranquility has no images to reflect upon what it is or where it is. So you're looking at something, it's right in front of you, it's right inside you, deep inside you, that has no way for you to, when you're not using any way to find it or know what it is.

[29:17]

continuous mental attention to the continuity of the inner mind. The continuity of the inner uninterrupted mind. Dogen Zenji says, Learn the backward step which turns the light around and shines it back. Same instruction. Turn the light around and shine it back on the mind which is contemplated by any mind.

[30:56]

Shine the light back on and contemplate that light. A light which you cannot which no image without using any image to make meaning of what the light is. So One more example of this, which I've worked with for a long time, is Yangshan meeting a monk and asking the monk, and the monk tells him, and he asks the monk if he, you know, if he thinks about that place where he's from. And he says, yes I do. That would be like if you were from England, I would say, where are you from? He'd say, England. I'd say, do you think of that place?

[31:58]

He'd say, yes. In other words, you think of the English people and the hillsides and the trains and etc. Think of those things. And Yangshan said, therein, when you think of where you're from, there's all this people and animals and buildings and all those things. And then he says to the monk, reverse your thinking. Think of the mind that thinks. Or in the Chinese, I find illuminating, he's saying, actually, think of the ability to think. And the Chinese character is a component, has a marker which means able or active with thinking.

[32:58]

And that passive marker in thinking. There's the ability to think of, and there's that which is thought of. What's thought of is England, the United States, Argentina. What's thought of is people and animals and birth and death. Mind has the ability to think. Think of that which can think. The uninterrupted mind that can think. Think of that. And we don't know how long he did that meditation, but he says, Are there lots of things there? And he says, when I get here, there's nothing at all. When you look at the ability to think, you don't see anything. When you look at the mind, which is contemplated by any mind, you don't find anything.

[34:08]

You don't even have something which will tell you that that's what it is. This is a non-conceptual image. Continuously attending to this non-conceptual image, this inner stream of the meditating consciousness comes to fruit, this state of mental and physical pliancy. My experience is that making the transition from looking at objects and thinking about them or even trying to focus on them to this practice of tranquility is potentially nauseating because we're not used to, like, looking for how, attending to how,

[35:14]

to attend without any way of attending to, or to look for a mind, not just any old mind, but a mind that's contemplated by any mind. A mind, one translation is the uninterrupted mind, it means the mind that's uninterrupted or you could say uninterrupted or undisturbed or unhastled by images. Look at the mind that no word gets at. And again, this is like, you can feel it's kind of seasick here. Because any way you get a footing in this meditation, you're slipping away from it into a conceptual image about So again, the actual object you're meditating on is a concept, but there's no way, no conceptual access to the concept.

[36:18]

It's an image. It's a non-conceptual image. It's a non-conceptual concept. It's a mind. And his uninterrupted mind, and you can think of that, it goes on, but it doesn't go on. So uninterrupted doesn't mean it'll last. It means it's not interrupted by images. Nothing can interrupt this mind. However, this mind can be transformed in basically three ways, which we've been studying. At what mind which can be transformed into things that can be reached by images. What's the mind that's always there through all these transformations and which no image interrupts?

[37:22]

That's the mind the sutra is suggesting to pay attention to. One time Dogen Zenji was talking to his teacher, Ru Jing, and Ru Jing said something, was talking to him about the practice of the Buddhas and ancestors is to sit in the middle, to sit in the suffering of all beings. And by sitting in the middle of this world with all beings suffering and listening to the cries of the world, there's the birth of what he called in Japanese anyway, new shin, or joshin, supple or soft mind, or meekness of mind.

[38:29]

And then what is that? And Dogen says, well, what is that supple mind? And Rujing said, it's the, well, I would say, or the willingness, the willingness for body and mind to drop off. It's openness to the dropping off of body and mind. That's another way, I think, that's being suggested here. To contemplate the inner stream, the undisturbed inner stream, inner life, of the meditating mind. Opening to that, you're opening to body and mind dropping off. Opening to that, you're opening to the light turning around, or being willing to let the light turn around and shine back on the mind itself.

[39:38]

And do you find many things here? The monk says, when I get here, I don't find anything at all. And Yangshan says to the monk, this is good for the stage of faith. In other words, like Asanga said, you have faithfully done the practice of tranquility and by the practice of tranquility you've entered into a plet, you've entered into the mind Or rather, you're entering into looking at the mind, and by looking at the mind you don't find anything. But there's more to practice than this. And the next part is the practice of insight, where you're going to now start using conceptual images again. Dogen Zenji says, when you learn this backward step, could you give me the sutra book, your sutra book there?

[40:59]

This backward step and shine the light back. Yeah, that's good. Thanks. Your original face will manifest. It's a backward step that turns your light inwardly. And this translation says, to illuminate yourself. Body and mind of themselves will drop away and your original face will manifest. What's your original face? It's a face which dispenses with any image of your face. It dispenses with any image of your face that you could use to carry meaning about what your face is.

[42:08]

That's your original face. Training in this tranquility of this sutra, this Mahayana sutra, this is Mahayana Samatha, is to open to your face without any image by which you could understand your face. Learning the backward step, this face manifests. One more early one, early teaching from the Buddha. Train yourself thus. In the seeing, there will be just the seeing. So you look at the floor and that's it.

[43:17]

You have no you give up any kind of way to reflect on what the floor is. In the herd, they're just the herd. In the tasted, they're just the tasted. In the touched, they're just the touched. In the smelled, they're just the touched. In any image, in any image, there's just the image. You're looking at an image with no way to conceptually reflect on it. This is the same as looking at the mind... ...completed by any mind. If you can look at a color, and in the colors there's just a color, then you may be able to tolerate looking at the mind, which is just the mind. It's always the mind.

[44:23]

And then the Buddha says, when you're able, when that's the way it is for you, that in the seen there's just the seen and in the heard there's just the heard, he doesn't say this quite, but he just about says, your original face will manifest. What he actually says is, you won't identify with it. You won't say, that's my face or that's not my face. You'll give up any conceptual way to know which face is yours. And one more thing to start just to say, this is opening, destructiveness and stillness. That took a long time.

[45:33]

So do you have any, did I relate to you enough? Or do you want more about this? The other translation was clear. Well, this text is saying that what you're contemplating is mind. Mind is generated in such a way that it has objects. But objects are not different from mind. It's just that mind is generated in such a way that its objects look different from itself.

[46:39]

But in all those generations, you know, of all those different objects, which are mind, you're always contemplating mind. It appears in different ways, even as different mental phenomena. It appears as physical phenomena. It even appears as types of consciousness. Like you can say, this is a good state of mind. This is a difficult state of mind. But no matter what state of mind there is, the mind is aware of, you're always contemplating the same mind. But that mind cannot be got at by good mind, bad mind, so on. You're actually looking at it, but you're talking about it as good mind, bad mind, various colors, good and bad things.

[47:43]

But it's really the same mind all the time in a given moment. That mind is always what you're looking at. But it can be transformed in these different ways. But the different transformations, you're not always looking at those. You only look at this transformation. But what's the mind that's always being contemplated? What's the inner stream, the inner life of the mind? What's the light of the mind? What's the mind that just dropped off What mind is that? What's the unconstructed mind? And as the monk said, when I get there, I don't see anything at all. So another way to look at it is you're looking at the mind such that when you look at that, And being able to continuously attend to not being able to find anything is how it might feel or seem when you're looking backwards at the mind.

[48:57]

You can't find people or horses, and you also can't find the mind. But that's what it's like to look at the mind, which is always being contemplated. And that's the tranquility practice of this scripture. Fortunately, it gives rise to prashrabdhi, which is the actual state of tranquility. The original face manifests. Sounds pretty good. Body and mind drop away. Sounds great. But that's not the end of the path. Now we are ready to practice insight. Because in this realm that we're cultivating, there isn't any treat, there's no teaching.

[50:04]

We've used the teaching on shamatha to enter a realm of light, to contemplate the inner stream of the meditating consciousness, to open to the unconstructedness and stillness, to open to the mystery of dependent co-arising. Not the dependent co-arising which we have conceptual images to reflect on and talk about. We've relaxed with that. And if we practice this way, we have a good state of mind now to turn around and now start looking at conceptual images because part of what the bodhisattva is interested in, which the translation from Tibetan makes clear, is to expound However, in order to expound the teachings, we have to eliminate any signs of substantial existence from the teaching so that we can really teach.

[51:13]

So now we have to start looking at conceptual images again, get back into the things having ways to conceptually get at the meaning of them, and dismantle this whole thing. But today we're talking about tranquility. And as I said, I think it's quite difficult to make the transition from focusing on objects that you have some way to conceptually reflect on them, and looking at an object that there's no way to conceptually reflect on it. Which is, again, looking at a mind that's uninterrupted by any images, ungraspable by any images.

[52:18]

Yes? Is it looking at its ability to know? You could try that. The ability to know is, I think, was Yangshan's instruction. He said, Reverse the mind and think back to the ability to think. Look at the ability to think. When we're thinking about something, the ability to think is there. but continuously, rather than tipping back and forth. Like, okay, here's the thinking about, I'll look at the ability to think about that, and then I'll go back to that. Try to be looking at the ability to think of all the things you're thinking. That's another instruction.

[53:39]

Look at the ability to think. Look at that which is always there when thinking is happening, and which can be transformed into various things, wherein, through this transformation of consciousness, images or ideas, people and other things arise. But there's always that ability to think is there. Even if it's not operating, it's there. Is that the same as the thing of not thinking? No, I think it's the same thing of non-thinking. But think of non-thinking is the same initial instruction. So that's another way Dobin put it. He says, think of not thinking. And how do you think of not thinking? Non-thinking. Not thinking I would equate with insight, the removing of the signs of the object.

[54:45]

And non-thinking is more like tranquility, learning the backward step. Non-thinking also translating as beyond thinking. So what's beyond thinking? The ability to think. Subject and object aren't really merged. I mean, are you suggesting that subject and object are merged? Non-duality is not the merging of subject and object. It's the non-duality of subject and object. They're not merged. They stand very nicely. Subject, object, subject, object. They're not merged. They are non-dual. If they were merged, there would be no issue. They're not one.

[55:50]

entity, they're one being. They're part of one event, but they actually are not merged. Tranquility sounds different than non-dual state? Again, the state of tranquility is what's called tranquility in here of mental and physical pliancy and ease with which you would be now quite unhindered and joyful to continue to practice tranquility, to continue to practice giving precepts, patience, diligence, and tranquility. You'd be happy to do those practices and you have no hindrance to those practices for the time being. And you also would be happy to now learn about

[56:54]

Insight. Insight into suchness and insight into nonduality. In a sense, nonduality is a deeper realization than suchness. We need to understand nonduality. Yes. I'm having a hard time understanding something I would have thought declared by a long time ago, and that is meditation, relative design. And so it's then that we suddenly observe thoughts and let them go, observe thoughts and let them go, just kind of pass through. But so it's then it's called meditation. Yes. And my understanding, or what I hear about meditating on wisdom, for instance, or meditating on tranquility, sound like mental activities that you pursue.

[58:08]

I thought, I don't understand what is meditation relative to counseling. Well, to... and to letting go of thoughts. In fact, you could let go of thoughts without mentally attending to them. Right? Matter of fact, we do let go of thoughts without mentally attending to them. Like you let go of whatever you were thinking of a few seconds ago. There was letting go of it. But did you mentally attend to the letting go of it? Pardon? The letting go naturally happened. Yeah. So we're talking about attending to a natural occurrence. For you, a natural occurrence is to have an inner mind. It's a natural occurrence.

[59:09]

And the inner mind is constantly being let go of. And so now there is actually is a mental activity. Tranquility is a mental activity. It's an activity. What kind of activity is it? It is an activity of attention. What kind of attention? Mental attention. What kind of mental attention? It's a continuous mental attention. To what? Well, you could say to not letting go to the mind being let go of, to the inner stream of the mind which is constantly released. So zazen does include mental activity, but initially it's not grasping after the images. It's not grasping after trains of thought.

[60:14]

it's actually more like watching how the trains of thought, watching how, looking at the mind which thinks all the trains of thought. What's the mind that's always there, no matter whether there's trains of thought going on or not, no matter what kind of thought or trains of thoughts are going on? My business is, what's the mind which knows all these trains of thought or whatever. I don't even know what's going on, actually. I'm not really into that right now. Something's going on, I suppose, but I'm focusing on, I'm turning the light back on the ability to know. I'm not focusing on the known. I'm talking about the ability to know. I'm talking about the mind which knows rather than what is known by the mind. Usually I'm concerned with what do I know. what's going on. In other words, what's going on means, what do I think is going on? I'm usually concerned with what I think rather than how I think.

[61:19]

I'm usually concerned with how my ability to think is manifesting as what I know rather than how do I, where's my ability to think. Looking at my ability to think is letting go. You can't hold on to anything when I look at, the ability of this mind to think. When I look at that which is thinking, I can't get too much into what is being thought of. That's the backward step. And it is difficult to learn it, I'm afraid. And Dogen's student, Dogen doesn't say this so much, he doesn't say follow the breath, but Dogen's student says, in a sense, put everything under the breath and get ready to do this big deal called leaping into this womb of light, which is the womb of everything let go, everything let go, everything let go, nothing to hold on to.

[62:32]

or looking at the inner stream of the meditating mind. Same thing. Many ways to try to describe reversing your thinking process. And it's difficult, but it comes to fruit as this excellent state of mind. And you also have a taste of what it's like to be free of conceptual reach. you're opening to the Dharma, actually, you're going to see your original face. All that stuff's going to come to you if you're willing to give up your can openers. Does that make more sense? It helps a lot, just to answer your question. Yeah? So, would I enter the Zando in the morning with an intention that day practice wisdom, tranquility, and insight, and do all three at the same time, simply by observing my observing mind?

[63:48]

I think that actually, I guess I would recommend that you, if you want to observe your observing mind, that you, you know, just for sake of, you know, I don't know what, success? that you actually say, I'm going to practice tranquility, and later I'll practice wisdom. Opening to this realm can be conducive to practicing insight, because it says a little bit later in the text, once you've attained this state, then you can start practicing insight. It also says, before you attain this state of Wonderful state of ease and fitness for all wholesome activities. Before you attain that, have you attained Samatha? And the answer is no.

[64:51]

If you're practicing this way but haven't yet attained this state, you're practicing in a way that's in accord with or that's with the instruction for practicing and realizing Samatha, but you haven't attained it yet. And then it says, prior to attaining this mental and physical ease, if you do these studies, if you study these doctrines and meditate on them, is that He said, no, it's not insight, it's in a state of tranquility. So to some extent, we have been doing vipassana work that is in accord with vipassana, but isn't really the vipassana unless we've been in the state of tranquility. So I would suggest if you want to practice the instructions that I'm bringing up today from the sutra, that you understand you're practicing tranquility, that you're learning the backward step. And again, learning the backward step is recommended by Dogen, and I would make that equal to learning non-tranquility.

[66:00]

Learning to go beyond your thinking, going beyond your thinking, I would translate as going beyond what you're thinking about. Going beyond thinking more is like turn back and look at the thinking. Not be concerned about what you're thinking about, which is normal thinking. Thinking is like what it's thinking about. Now forget that for now and look at the thinking itself. Tranquility practice. Opening you to your original face and that, if you can stand to be open to that, you can stand to do, you'll be better able to do wisdom practice. Yes? Um,

[67:29]

Your question kind of wandered about a little bit. Try to focus it, please. When you're thinking, you're usually looking at what you're thinking. Pardon? But again, looking at the process of thinking could be kind of balanced between looking at the thinking and what you're thinking of. So you can be aware the process of thinking is going on. So I'm aware the process of thinking is going on. But now I'm going to try to turn it back and look at the ability to be involved in this process and the ability to know these objects. It's a little bit more emphasis on the ability than both looking at the ability to think and what's thought of. Usually what people do is they're way over and they're not giving much attention to the ability to think at all.

[68:44]

So shifting back just to give some attention to the ability of think is a big transition, a big change. What's your question? My question is about the difference between The ability to travel, to travel effectively, So if there wasn't any thinking, I think that it would just be a state that's just not very clear.

[69:54]

I wouldn't really say that I was aware if there was no thinking. In other words, it's hard to even be clear that I'm meditating on the ability to think if there's no thinking going on. But the ability, I think, could still be available, but it would be very unclear. So that would be kind of, yeah, I would be not very aware at that time. Have a way to understand my observing mind, or my presence, or my mental way of looking at things.

[70:57]

Do I say, um... That's more of a posthumous, that's more insight work, labeling. Would you give me an example of kind of how I observe my mind when I be observing my mind? Would I be commenting? I think what you're again trying to do now is you're trying to be involved in discursive thought. So this, the direction of your mind now to get a hold of something here through this conversation is what is in tranquility practice of this sutra. that you give up any conceptual image by which you can reflect on this process. It's different.

[71:59]

Quite a gap is created, yep. Pardon? There's a gap then, you know, that's created. And I'm trying to understand how I can be in it. Yeah, right. Well, I think the way to understand how you can be in that state is to give it a try and you'll find out how difficult it is to be in that state because it's really different. It's a big change because you're like giving up the mind which is constantly interrupted by interpretation. You're talking about dispensing with the images by which you make meaningful what's going on. This is called dropping off body and mind. This is called leaping into the womb of light. Now you want me to tell you about what it's like to leap into the womb of light? The womb of light is knowing what it's like to be in the womb of light. Or also, the womb of light is when you give up some kind of intellectual or conceptual interpretation by which you can be meaningful about where you are.

[73:14]

Big change, huh? That's what it seems like it's talking about to me. Turning the light around, pretty tough. It's usually the point that the light's going out on things, on objects. Okay. What's looking out there all the time? What's the mind which is always looking out there? Can't get a hold of that. There's nothing there. There's no people, there's no frogs, but also there's no mind you can make into a people or a frog. Like this kind of a mind or that kind of a mind? No. You won't find mind. Quote, this is the image that you're looking for. You can call it inner stream. Got all these names. Inner stream, interrupted mind, the mind which is contemplated by any mind.

[74:24]

But this means it's non-conceptual, this thing you're looking for. No image to make it meaningful. It's like, oh, I got it. Oh, I got it. This is what it's normally like to look at things. Oh, I got it. Oh, I got Eric. Oh, I got my mind. It's not like that. It's a different way of being, a different way of training. It's different. It's a new thing. It's the backward step. And your original face is there waiting for you that you won't be able to see. Yes? When I hear these teachings, I get the impression that I've probably tried things and nothing's real. I mean, I try one day when I hear you telling me to do this backwards step, I try that, and another day I try to feel, and the third day I might try it inside.

[75:37]

And I just wonder if that is really... or it would not be better just to do one thing until I mastered it, instead of just trying what comes to my mind, and maybe thereby, I don't know, going away from the point, because that's difficult, I don't know. It just came up to me very clearly when you told that now that I'm trying a lot of these things but actually have never achieved anything of that and it might focus on one picture, one sort of type of instruction. Yeah, that might be good. Yeah, so why don't you try just choose one and focus on that one for a while. Like Backward step, or stream of the meditating mind, or non-thinking, or think back to the ability to think.

[76:51]

One of those. But if you get too nauseated, let it go. Some instructions may make you sick. take a rest. And then you could come, instead of switching to another one, you could just take a rest and come back. That's why following the breath might be a place. And if you could follow your breath with no image by which that would be meaningful, you'd be doing the same practice. So that's why I think people maybe stumble upon this practice while they're following their breathing. Or when you're following your breathing wholeheartedly and in the breath there's just the breath, you enter into a state of like no identification or disidentification with the breath, you open to the same realm.

[77:55]

So yeah, maybe jumping around Be careful of that. Yes? Can you do insight work without conceptual objects? I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying the sutra says that you work with conceptual objects when you do insight work. And part of the reason why I think they want you to do work with conceptual objects, another definition of insight in this chapter, another definition of insight in this chapter is that vipassana is mental attention to signs. And then another comment is that

[78:59]

In order for bodhisattvas to accomplish the point of this whole chapter, of this whole tradition, in order for bodhisattvas to be supremely enlightened and be able to expound the Dharma in accord with the Dharma, they have to remove the signs from all objects and all teachings. What are the signs? The signs are the physical things together with the interpretations that make them substantial. So the insight work, part of the insight work, the initial insight work, is to conceptual images, signs, and remove them. However, in the final stage of conceptual work, I mean of insight, the insight is joined with the non-conceptual image. The training in non-conceptual image is joined and united with the training in meditation on conceptual images.

[80:04]

So then not only are you first of all meditating on non-conceptual images, attaining tranquility, and then meditating on conceptual images, but finally you train in non-conceptual attention and conceptual attention at the same time. In that case, there's no conceptual image. So there comes a time even if you're not looking at conceptual images, it's the first part. And the first part in this sutra is based on having trained yourself at giving up looking at conceptual images for a while. the result of which is that you're in a state of mind where you can really effectively study and signs. That's what this sutra is saying. But even this sutra says in the final stages, there's one stage of vipassana where you're studying the signs.

[81:13]

There's another stage of vipassana where you're eliminating the signs. So finally, it won't be that you're not exactly... ...images. You will have eliminated them. So that's the final thing. So there is a stage of vipassana where there is no attention to conceptual images, there is no attention to signs. And there's a practice of not paying attention to conceptual signs. So you can spend a lot of time trying to learn how to not look at conceptual images. There's plenty of room for that. That's hard enough. And then based on success there, you can then look at conceptual images. And finally, when they're united, you don't have to look at any more conceptual images. That's the latter part of the chapter. Yes. Yes. Well, you kind of understand it.

[82:16]

I mean, that's how it is for you at that time. But it's just that, can you now go back and look at conceptual images which have signs without believing the sign? And the answer is, no, you cannot. You have to work with the signs for quite a bit until you're not caught by them anymore. But in tranquility, in the training in tranquility, you're giving up the signs to some extent. You're giving up the conceptual access. And you're willing to be with the world in a way that the world actually is. which promotes you being able to enter into a training course, which opens you to this realization.

[83:23]

You wouldn't be fully convinced. You get a peek, but you don't really know that this is... Even if you think, you're not talking like that, so... So in the Phukan Zazengi, Dogen does talk about not thinking, but not thinking, I think, is more related to the insight, where you actually are going to remove the signs. But in order to remove the signs, you have to be able to put aside your usual thinking for a while and attain tranquility. And as Asanga puts it, this meditation practice is basically relaxing.

[85:38]

Relaxing with the way our mind works, usually. Relaxing with it so much that it's like the mind is reversed trying to get control of things, to look at what's trying to get in control, what's always there in all these controlling enterprises. Relax with any kind of gain, any concern for understanding, Concern for understanding is fine, but that's the object of the thinking. Relax with that issue. and shall equally extend to every being and place.

[87:23]

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