During this intensive we have been studying the great vehicle teachings and particularly the great vehicle teachings related to training in bodhisattva ethics. And Asanga teaches in Chapter 6 of the Summary of the Great Vehicle four excellences in training in bodhisattva ethics. The ethics of the varieties The excellence of the varieties are taught here as threefold.

[01:02]

The ethics of training in restraining outflows, of training in developing all wholesome activity, and the ethics of maturing beings. Then there's the ethics of common and specific the common and specific excellence of the precepts. They're excellent in the bodhisattva ethics are excellent in the way that they share with the ethics of personal liberation and the way they don't share with the ethics of personal liberation. The ethics of universal liberation share certain aspects with the ethics of individual liberation and there's other aspects they do not share.

[02:19]

And we've talked about this and then there's the ethics of extent. in that these bodhisattva ethics have great extent. Ultimately their great extent is that they extend to complete perfect enlightenment. And the last one is the profoundity which, being profound, is most difficult for us to understand. And the profound aspect of the bodhisattva ethics are both deep and difficult and dangerous. So we've talked about how discussing the profound is dangerous. Again, as Nagarjuna said, the profound, the ultimate character of things, for example, the ultimate character of bodhisattva practice excellence of bodhisattva ethics training is like a snake.

[03:28]

It's dangerous if wrongly grasped. So now in these dark days of winter in the concentrated space of this intensive supporting each other I feel that maybe it would be beneficial into the profundity of this training in bodhisattva ethics knowing that this is difficult for us, frightening and dangerous. Please help me present it in a way that it does not burst the bubble of delusion so strong too strongly. I don't want to shock

[04:37]

I don't want to shock and I don't want to surprise in an unbeneficial way. I want to, I hope that this discussion, difficult as it might be, will open your minds and hearts in a thoughtful way. The examples, the stories I feel I would like to bring out and offer to you are stories that have over time been like secret gardens to me. And I say that because when I was about five years old I saw a movie called The Secret Garden It was a movie about children, but it was kind of a scary movie about children.

[06:06]

Do you know anything about The Secret Garden? Some of you already know it probably because I told it quite a few years ago, back in the days of VCRs. And as a result of giving these talks, people gave me various copies of this movie, which I was very happy to see again. It's basically a story about a little girl, maybe five years old. I think she was living in India, English girl. She was living in India. And there was cholera or some disease that died and then she as an orphan was sent back to England and put in the care of maybe an uncle or aunt I think an uncle who lived in one of these big English manor houses very places so she went there to live and she was even though she was an orphan she had a very she was still perky and ready to live

[07:30]

And she went to this big house with servants and she gradually learned there was a little boy living in the house. And the little boy was in bed. He was paralyzed. He couldn't walk. Somehow, and she wasn't supposed to go visit him. They were afraid that he, maybe I think that they were afraid that her energy would like weaken him. But somehow, anyway, she went to visit him. And she got him, and he didn't move out of his room in a wheelchair. And somehow, anyway, they were outside one time and they discovered, they saw something strange on one of the ivy-covered walls. And they went over and they realized that behind all the overgrowth was a door. And they opened this door somehow. And inside they found a garden that no one knew about.

[08:34]

and the garden was basically untended to for many years and basically they brought this garden back to life this secret unattended space and in bringing the garden back to life of course the little boy was able to walk again and they were able to play in the garden So this story really struck me when I was five years old. And I remembered it. Year after year would come back to me, the story of the secret garden. I hardly remember the story. I just remember the dark secret house and the dark secret garden. And I remember that I was also a paralyzed little boy when I was two. So I also recovered from paralysis and was able to walk.

[09:39]

Now looking back on the story, it seems like a story of the Buddha way. And over the years of studying Zen, I discovered lots of dark secret garden stories. The profound is the dark that we usually stay away from because it's dangerous, it's dark, it's scary. So when a Sangha is telling us about the profound aspects of the precepts, he tells us that in their superior, in their supreme wisdom and skillful means, can do things which don't look like bodhisattva ethics, they can do things which don't look like compassion. That they fabricate situations out of their wisdom and compassion which look like withholding.

[10:48]

But also, they fabricate things which look like giving. They look like they're giving benefit to some others and withholding it They do this, they do this, and they do this, and they do this until the person matures to a point of having right faith in the Dharma and then they open to reality. So there are many stories in Indian literature And there are many stories in Chinese literature, Buddhist literature, about stories of teachers training students in this profound excellence of bodhisattva precepts. And again, just like that story about the secret garden, these stories are stories that

[11:53]

keep resonating in my mind. The stories of kindness, stories that appear to my mind as kindness, they also resonate. But these resonate with some question. These other stories. Someone gave me a book one time. The name of the book was River Teeth. And one of the essays in this book called River Teeth is called River Teeth. And the author says that, you know, up in Oregon, California and Washington, if you go into the redwoods, some of the redwood trees grow by the river. And when they die, some of them fall into the river. And after about 500 years of the water running over the fallen tree, all that's left of these huge trees is like little knots or burls that even 500 years do not wash away.

[13:18]

And those are called river teeth. The enamel... of the redwood last 500 years. And then the author says, in our mind too, you know, in the redwood tree of our mind, our mind falls in the river too, and the water runs over it. But there's certain things, for example, pi r squared, that haven't been washed away yet. But most of you probably do not remember the quadratic equation. Differential calculus. But most of you probably remember pi r squared, or if not, that 2 plus 2 is 4. Is that familiar? There's some things, there's some things that in the memory of our life are still there. That have been there for me for a long time.

[14:23]

And one of them I told earlier in the intensive about the Tenzo, the Tenzo with a deep commitment to study the Buddha. Actually, the monk who had a deep commitment to the Bodhisattva way and because of that got appointed to Tenzo and then took the key to the storeroom to get some wheat for the monks because the teacher's menu was so coarse and poor, he wanted a better meal. So he stole the key for the sake of the monks. He did it for them, not for himself. He was a bodhisattva. But he violated the rule and the teacher noticed and he asked the teacher to punish him. He did. And the teacher excluded him and excluded him for years. But his resolve and his faith never wavered.

[15:32]

And this monk, I always remember this story, and many people are distressed supposedly a bodhisattva teacher excluding a bodhisattva student over stealing some wheat. But that story could be a story of a teacher who has practiced the restraint, who knows what it's like to restrain outflows as a student and helping that student deepen his practice of restraint. And in this story, that's exactly what happened. The more the teacher rejected him, the more his faith in the Bodhisattva way became. And because he was so deeply, deeply committed to the path of compassion, he could easily, not easily, he could successfully withstand

[16:38]

the most intense rejection available to him, the rejection of his teacher, the person he loved the most, the person he loved as Buddha, rejecting him, that he saved Soto Zen. He could do that in his spare time. And this story is difficult for people. And it was difficult for me, but it's also perhaps one of the dearest river to me. So I told the story. Now I have more stories. Someone kindly came and told me that she's, I think, I don't know if she said this, but she said she, I don't know if she said she was enjoying practicing patience with stories of men to each other. But she definitely said she was practicing patience with them.

[17:45]

I don't know if these are stories of men practicing cruelty to each other, apparently. or bodhisattvas, women can do this practice of rejection for the welfare of beings too. And they do sometimes out of compassion. So that's one river tooth. And then there's another one that I wanted to share with you. And oftentimes when there's a river tooth, that in my mind, when I look at the river tooth, I realize the river tooth is in a lineage of similar river teeth. That whenever there's a teacher who has a very strong teaching, usually it's a teaching of their teacher, whose teaching was the teaching of his teacher, whose teaching was the teaching of her teacher, whose teaching was the teaching of her teacher, and so on.

[19:01]

So there's a lineage of practicing the first bodhisattva precept, the precept of restraining outflows, the practice of presence in which outflows, in which impurities in our bodhisattva practice are dropped. There's a lineage of teaching this first bodhisattva ethics precept. And in these stories, sometimes, it looks like the teacher practicing generosity towards the student. There's many stories of the teacher practicing generosity towards the student. So I started this, I think towards the beginning of this intensive, I told a story of a teacher being generous towards her students. a teacher being generous towards a dog, an afflicted, miserable dog.

[20:13]

And a teacher was practicing compassion towards this student, this dog student. And then the teacher discovered the dog was covered with maggots, and the teacher practiced compassion to the maggot students. So in this story, people say, oh, that looks pretty compassionate. Yes, very compassionate. And this person who was so, in the words of one of our members, so unthinkably, impossibly compassionate. This person is teaching us that bodhisattvas, when trying to disclose the profound nature, sometimes reject the student's appear to project, seemingly project, fabricate projection in order to initiate them into the profound meaning, the profound radiance.

[21:22]

They go down into the dark, dark, dark garden to reveal the dark, dark garden is full of light. But still it's surprising and it's good that it's surprising when these bodhisattvas act in ways that don't appear generous because we know it's that they are first of all committed to compassion and generosity. So a sangha gives compassion to a dog to maggots and to us. And he tells us that sometimes bodhisattvas, in order to train us in the first bodhisattva precept, appear in ways that give rise to distress.

[22:24]

And they try to be careful because some students are not yet ready for them to appear in a way that's distressful. So they have to somehow know who is ready for a teaching which will challenge and restrain their outflows. To be frustrated in their attempt to get the teachings that they think are appropriate for them. Many Zen students come to Zen centers to get teachings, and they've already decided what those teachings should be. And they go to the teachers, people who are pretending to be teachers, like me, and they tell me that I'm not teaching the right way, and they explain to me the way that I should be teaching.

[23:30]

And sometimes I go along with them. But sometimes I just can't. and they keep trying and if I don't go along with their program some of them leave or just stay but go to somebody who will give them the teachings according to what they think the teachings should be and then they're apparently happy which is great really And then not too long after Asanga, perhaps semi-historical figure named Bodhidharma, who went all the way from India to China to help people. And when his wonderful disciple came to him, he told his disciple to go away.

[24:37]

He rejected him. This is supposed to be Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, this Bodhidharma. And he's saying, go away, you're not sincere. So this... Yeah, I wonder, is that Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva? Seems kind of gruff and harsh, sitting there in the cave. Go away. I'm lucky Tesvar talks to somebody who's coming for the Dharma. The River Tooth that I want to bring up is a story about a teacher whose name is Tzu Ming.

[25:57]

And a student who came to him whose name is Yang Chi. That's the story which I heard a long time ago and which has always kept resonating in my heart. This Tsè Ming is the actually the last line before it spread into many schools or different schools. Before him, it was just one successor after another, and then he had two successors. So in the later part of Zen in China, he is the source of all the schools of Linji or Rinzai Zen. But still, the story, there's something about the story that has been a secret garden for me, and I wanted to share the story with you in the light of the Bodhisattva precepts.

[27:12]

And never before did I research this background. But now I have. Sun Ming was, his name was Fen Yang. And the way he taught Tzu Ming is the way Tzu Ming taught Yang Chi. In both cases, the teachers taught their successors in a way that their successors had difficulty trusting was Bodhisattvic instruction.

[28:29]

And the way that they taught their successors, not everybody, but their successors, the people who actually carried on their teaching, the way they taught them was that they taught in such a way that the student thought they were receiving no teaching. Or, and, not only receiving no teaching, the teaching they were receiving was really What time is it? Quarter to eleven. So with this introduction, I imagine some of you could be on the verge of some overwhelm.

[29:55]

What I've said already may be pretty scary. When my grandson was younger, one time we were standing out in front of the house. It was daytime. We're standing outside under the maple trees. And he said, I wasn't proposing that there were ghosts. He just happened to mention to me that there weren't any. I don't know. For some reason, he wanted to tell me there aren't any ghosts, granddaddy. And I said, is that right? No ghosts, really? He said, don't talk like that. His confidence that there was no ghosts was rather superficial. I wasn't saying there was, but I noticed that just changing the tone of my voice was sufficient.

[30:59]

As I contemplate the central story, the central river tooth, the story of Tsung Ming, the great Tsung Ming and his great disciple, Yang Chi, I noticed more recent examples of that in our lineage. So I have in my mind to share this lineage of training in the ethics of restraint of outflows in the Zen school. But this is very rich and intense teaching. So again, I want to be very clear that we don't eat too much at once and get sick. So I'm pausing now I have a story, I told you about Bodhidharma and Asanga, and now I have the story of Tsung Tsui Ming and Yang Chi, and Tsui Ming and his teacher, Fen Yang.

[32:35]

I also have a story of Suzuki Roshi and Nishizawa Iyan and his teacher, Nishihara Bokusan, and I also have stories of Suzuki Roshi and Tenshin Zenki. So I have some stories about this kind of situation. And some stories of you and me might come up in the process too, if you want. But also I'm pausing now. I'm setting the stage. I'm setting the table for a feast of Bodhisattva precepts. here are vegan and some people here are not. So I want to be careful and respectful of the guests at the table. But I also feel the joy at the prospect of sharing my river teeth with you

[33:50]

the stories and the flow of my life that keep and inspiring me to live a little longer and inspiring me also to be authentic and and accept the trouble I get the trouble I get for being me in practice. In this context, I'm thinking that maybe I've said enough

[34:56]

and I'll bring up the actual river tooth. And I also understand that these river teeth are somewhat difficult to deal with because the characters, although we could call them Mary and John, Maybe that would be good. It's also maybe good to call them by their Chinese names, but those are difficult for us, so I'm trying to, like, help you be able to follow it by telling you some of the names. Fen Yang, teacher of Tsing Ming, Tsing Ming, Tsing Ming teacher of Yang Qi. Boksan, teacher of Aeon. Aeon, teacher of Shunryu.

[35:59]

Aeon, teacher of Zen Center of San Francisco. These are some names that appear in stories about training in bodhisattva ethics, which means training in the perfection of wisdom, training in enlightenment. profound aspect of the Bodhisattva precepts. If you can support me then I will I will stop talking about these stories and go deeper tomorrow and deeper the next day and deeper the next day and then perhaps come up for air at the end Is that all right? Is the picture somewhat clear?

[37:03]

Is the table beginning to be set? If there's any questions or feedback you care to offer, for example... You didn't teach anything at all today. you're welcome to give any feedback you care to offer at this time and while I'm waiting for the feedback I just want to say one more time the relationship between these bodhisattva precepts these bodhisattva ethics and zazen is that they're the same that bodhisattva ethics are zazen that bodhisattva ethics are enlightenment, are zazen, are enlightenment.

[38:05]

They're all the same thing. Zazen and bodhisattva ethics are the practice of enlightenment. And enlightenment is the practice of zazen bodhisattva ethics. So while you're sitting, You have the opportunity to practice the ethics of restraining outflows while you're walking, while you're working in the kitchen. You have the opportunity to restrain the outflows of trying to get anything out of sitting and out of working. We all have this opportunity all day long today to restrain trying to get something out of this practice and thereby contribute to the realization of the Dharmakaya Buddha. All this I've said before. Please excuse me for repeating myself so often.

[39:08]

But I know some of the older people forget. They tell me they do. And then when I... That's right, thank you. I knew that. Why do I have to keep being reminded? Any feedback? We have a little place here. Is the place ready? Is the thing ready? Ready? Before you give feedback, could I ask you if you remember why you came here?

[40:13]

You mean right here? I mean right here, yeah. I mean right here. Do you know how to use that thing? Yes, I do. I've seen these, I think. Why I came where? What's the reason for coming here? Do you remember? Okay. Yes. Well, any feedback besides that? Yeah. I just wanted to offer that... I've noticed that I often find myself not so much studying what you're teaching, and I hope that's okay. I just wanted to ask if that's all right. You have my full support to study in any way you think would benefit all beings. You could say, I wish to be free of liking and disliking the way you study the Dharma.

[41:30]

I'm just committed to loving the way you study the Dharma. And I am following through on my commitment right now. I feel like some of these stories are stories of students studying how their teacher is teaching more than what they're saying. For example, if the teacher says, go away. Yeah, if the teacher says go away, how is he teaching? But sometimes they're not studying because they've already come to the conclusion this is not teaching. So then they're not really saying how, they're saying this is not. So at a certain point in the story they say, they're not saying how this is not teaching, they're not questioning anymore. They are in outflows. And that's what the teacher's working on. But you, that's not your problem.

[42:33]

You're kind of wondering what's going on here, right? Sometimes. Thank you for the feedback. How are these teachers different than grandmotherly mind?

[43:41]

Do you ask me if they do? Is that this teaching? This teaching is definitely grandmotherly mind, yes. So in that sense, this is about grandmothers, potential grandmothers. And These are stories about potential grandmothers who actually stayed for the teaching which was apparently not teaching them anything. They came to get the teaching and the grandmother frustrated their gaining mind but they stayed and the teacher the grandmother teacher frustrated their gaining mind and they stayed and they got over trying to get something. The family style is frustrating. The family style is frustrating, gaining idea when the person's mature enough.

[44:45]

And there's two kinds of mature people who are mature enough. One kind of person is mature enough to hang in there, and the other kind of person is mature enough to leave on their own. There's a third type of person that should not be given the frustration because they won't be able to walk out of the room. So that's a mistake. But people who can say, hey, this is not for me. This frustrating thing is not for me. I do not want my aspiration to get something from the teacher. I do not want it frustrated. I'm out of here. I'm going someplace where I can get what I want. But there's another group of people who stay. Those are the stupid ones. And they stay until they give up trying to get something from the teacher. She stopped trying to get something from her teacher who stayed with her teacher until she stopped trying to get something from her teacher.

[45:48]

It's a lineage of people who are normal people who are trying to get something who met somebody who they thought could give it to them and that person did not give it to them. But they didn't run away from that. And they finally realized that they didn't want to try to get anything anymore. And they learned that. Then they could train somebody else in this frustration of gaining, grasping, avoiding, losing, staying away from the dark garden of paralysis. Thank you. You're welcome. I apologize for using the hearing impaired, whatever it's called. I'm sorry, it's not functioning right now.

[46:49]

I just wanted to apologize and feel responsible, but I have no idea how to fix it. I'm sorry, too. I hope you portrayed it in a beneficial way. Would you let that person come before you? She came from so far. I hope that was frustrating. The tenzo is coming to inform her crew that it's time to depart. What I hear and what you're saying is that... Can you hear her?

[47:59]

What I hear and what you're saying is that... Is that better in the back? That's good. What you hear... What I hear is that compassion is meeting us in every moment. That's right. So like in the fear I feel right now, Regulating the outflow, that's compassion meeting me. Yes. Okay. And is compassion meeting that compassion? Sometimes. How about now? I just remembered that I asked you this question, I think on the first day I met you.

[49:54]

Can you hear that in the back? And that was, how does a student evaluate if his teacher is a real teacher? It is beneficial to trust the teacher, especially if the teacher seems to be performing stories that do not look so compassionate. That do not look compassionate? Yeah. I'd like to receive something, but... and I'm restraining any attempt to get it.

[51:47]

What would you like to receive? To hear what response you got. Oh. That caused you to... I was looking for a new one. Well, I'd like to hear the old one first, but I'm not trying to get it. I understand. I just like to receive it. I have such a bad memory. You're welcome to frustrate me. I try to, but you can't because I'm not trying to get it. I think you gave me three points. Three points. Can you hear in the back? Three points. One was... One voice, you look at the disciples. Look at the disciples, yeah. And... That worked, didn't it? That's where I got really skeptical.

[52:51]

The second one was... If the teacher keeps studying, something like that. I don't know the words, but if the teacher keeps studying. And I don't remember a third one. So since that time that you asked that question, what have you learned about the situation? Right now, I feel... That's the new response. My question is the new response that you came to receive.

[54:02]

What have you learned about this question that you asked a while ago? I learned studying the self while asking questions. You learned studying the self while asking questions? Yes. Yeah, so that's another thing that would be another point of a teacher would be someone who helps you asking questions. And also another one would be someone who is patient when you're not studying the self. And when you're not asking questions, that they're patient with that. and someone who basically supports you to study the self and ask questions about the self and the other.

[55:29]

I think the difficulty is that if the teacher is, let's say, spiritually more developed than the student, it is impossible for the student to, that's just what I say, to distinguish if the aspiration of the teacher is good or not. in a certain case. I remember you told me that, for example, Angulimala was taught by his teacher to kill thousand people. It could be that he just assumed that This is a beneficial teaching which I do not understand.

[56:53]

And I just follow my teacher's advice. Actually, I've been like that because finally you could argue there was a beneficial ending of Angulimala. And maybe like you said, we will never be able to tell until we are Buddhas. a never be able to tell isn't the same as never waking up dream.

[58:21]

You can see, you can understand that you're mistaken. That's not the same as understanding how karma works. In order to understand how karma works, which only Buddhas know, we have to wake up from our delusion. And we can wake up from our delusion prior to Buddhahood. Delusion that there's something to gain and something to lose. And from that freedom from delusion, we can practice the next steps. We still don't understand how karma works, but we are creating that which does understand how karma works.

[59:32]

And if we have realized the end of outflows, there's no hindrance to practicing wholesome activities and benefiting beings. So, knowing what the karmic results are, a bodhisattva acts in faith of no gain. That's the first precept that they practice.

[60:48]

That's the first aspect of precepts, is that they do not understand how karma works, but they do understand that if they wish to realize welfare of all beings, the first aspect of training is to restrain outflows. They understand that, and they understand that they have to train, they have to take care of this bodhi mind They have to take care of this aspiration and develop it. And the first ongoing and first aspect of caring for this bodhi mind is to restrain outflows around gain and loss, around getting and understanding through our own study or from a teacher. are committed to training in trying to practice wholesome dharmas. They don't exactly understand how wholesome dharmas work, but they are committed to training at trying to be wholesome according to these forms.

[61:56]

And they practice these forms again without turning away from practicing the forms. And they practice the third bodhisattva precept of trying to benefit beings even though they don't understand how beings are benefited. They are dedicated to serve beings. So for example, in these stories they're dedicated to serve the teacher who might be, at the same time that they're serving the teacher, the teacher is training them at no-odd flows. The teacher's training them at are you trying to get anything from me while you're serving me? You're doing all these things for me. You're helping me in all these ways. And the student is saying, yeah, I'm trying to get something. You're not giving me what I'm trying to get. Even though I'm being such a good student, I'm such a good servant to you, and you're not giving me what I want to get. That's the teacher who also doesn't know how to benefit the student, trying to practice wholesomeness towards the student.

[63:04]

And also the teacher's not trying to gain anything from this service to the student. So when the student and teacher are both devoted to each other, both serving each other, and neither one are trying to get anything, this is the practice. And this practice leads to understanding how this all works. and the ones who supposedly understand recommend this practice. And so we practice patience with the situation of not understanding how karma works. And committing to these training methods for developing the Bodhi mind. It's like, you know, making a bet that the Bodhisattva training methods would be appropriate to the Bodhi mind, which you happen to have.

[64:15]

And if you don't have it, then these practices are not appropriate. These are training methods for those who aspire to Buddhahood for the welfare of beings. This is a special training course for such beings who are developing this. So these training methods, do they have to be a secret to be effective?

[65:30]

Do they have to be a secret to be effective? Yes. No, but they may seem like before you open the gate to the garden, you might not know it's there. So it doesn't have to be that there's a secret garden, but there I was, five years old, in a movie theater, and there was a secret garden. And it struck me that somehow that was really, it really struck me. And then the door got open, and that struck me. And then they started to grow things in the garden, and that struck me. So that was a story that had a big impact on me. But not everybody has to have that story. I should say that's one of the stories that really touched me. I actually just saw the movie about two weeks ago. It was playing on TV.

[66:35]

1948. 1948? I was five. I had a different take on it. But just going back to the training. Yes. Isn't there a risk between a teacher and a student of losing trust? Is there a risk of losing trust? One of them losing trust or both of them losing trust? Well, I'm mainly speaking from a student's point of view. Yeah, I think there is a risk of the student losing trust. Yes. And when that happens... can a student resurrect his or her trust with her teacher? I guess the first thing that occurs to me is see what life is like without trust. See how that goes. Well, I think in any given relationship, I think trust is really important.

[67:50]

I understand you think it's important and you ask me what to do when you lose it. And I'm not suggesting that that's my case here. Okay. I am suggesting that that possibility exists and just... Yes. And that's a danger of this kind of training. Yes. It's also a danger of the training program where you give the student a teaching that they think you should be giving. They can lose trust in that too. As a matter of fact, I know quite a few stories of people who realized that the teacher was, what do you call it, acquiescing to the pressure from them and they lost they lost confidence that that was a good teacher for them because they realized they shouldn't be with a teacher who basically goes along with their attempts to control.

[68:57]

So they leave that teacher and go find a teacher that won't go along with their attempts to control. But they're also in danger of losing faith that that would be a good relationship. So either way, there's always a danger of losing faith. There's always a danger of losing our aspiration. I mean, until you get . There's always this risk. Yes. And yes. And yes. So this bodhi mind, this aspiration to realize in awakening for the welfare of beings, that can be lost. That's in danger of being lost. Figure out how to take care of that so we don't lose it. And if we lose it, then we have to think about, well, how do we find it again? And if we lose faith, perhaps faith in that bodhi mind, then how do we deal with that? There is a danger, yes.

[69:59]

Do you feel that a remedy could be, when you sense that that's happening with one of your students, to be more transparent about what your training technique is? Do I feel that it might be beneficial and helpful? Yeah, I think it might. Thank you. You're welcome.

[70:27]

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