Buddha's main philosophical insight is expressed by the term dependent co-arising. So we go for refuge in Buddha, we go for refuge in Dharma, Buddha's teaching, and we go for refuge in the teaching of dependent co-arising, teaching of causation. And we often speak of the Buddha's teaching as a teaching of nonviolence. I will speak about nonviolence, but not meaning that there's no violence in the realization of nonviolence.

[01:12]

but rather suggesting that it needs the playground or a playground of dependent co-horizon. It needs a playground of cause and effect. So for your consideration, I would just suggest that violence lives best in the environment. And it can function there. to shape images.

[02:18]

That the place for violence to fully function is in shaping the imagining of the world. Normally one can live in the formation of our thinking and our karma. It's like a force, a shaping force. And when violence does not have a playground, this kind of container in which it functions to form images, it goes wild. And that's because something it needs has been removed.

[03:36]

And in the present culture, violence itself has become an image, an image. And this image is actively sought after and actively, in a sense, seen as the most destructive thing, too, at the same time. People are seeking after the image of violence and also relating to the image and violence of human defense in a living world.

[04:45]

Someone gave me an article one time several years ago. I think the title of it was, Why Men Love War. And I think the article was that both, of course, both men and women can be violent, but some men love war. And the author thought that maybe it was because when men are in war, it's the closest they ever get. to a sense of creativity. And whereas women have the opportunity to be mothers and that gives them some access to the creative process. But men men can sometimes get access to that a little bit anyway through the arena to the playground where they can see the violence sculpting the world and also sports

[06:36]

especially major league sports. I heard this guy on the radio one time being interviewed by Terry Gross, and she said, do you have some recommendation for a, I think she said for a man, who doesn't live somewhere with a sports team? And he said, yes, I would suggest he move to someplace where there is one. So he's suggesting that for a lot of men the only time that they actually are able to emotionally emote is when they're at one of these major league sports events. They actually act like little boys again in these arenas, even sometimes without drinking lots of alcohol. They like scream, you know, the way kids do when they see each other.

[07:47]

They cry with joy and sorrow. Even on TV, they really get some life going. Creativity in real time. They can see history being shaped. They can see the image of history being shaped right now. They actually can feel the Pentecost. So in that sense, violence is basically yearning, yearning for creativity. When it's an image. It's a signal that something needs to be given attention. What is it? I would say, for your consideration, it's causation.

[08:52]

It's the Dharma that the violence is calling our attention to. It's showing us there's a need to become a martial artist or find a playground in the mind for violence. I sometimes think, you know, the number of people that go to the San Francisco 49er games, San Francisco is full of, you know, highly evolved creative people. And some of them go to the San Francisco 49ers football team and go to the games. And I think not as many people come to, like, Zen centers to sit. And I think it's because we are not, we who are practicing are not in our own minds.

[10:04]

We're not in touch with the way our minds are being created moment by moment. If we were, well, you know, we'd build bigger temples because people would want to come and learn how to do that. So it would be as thrilling to watch your own mind as to watch these images of worlds being created and destroyed, careers being moved into triumph and destruction. That's going on in our mind all the time, but If we don't attend to it, if we aren't whole, we may miss it. And if we miss it, we're missing the creation of our lives, we're missing the beauty of our life, and we are yearning for it.

[11:18]

And violence is yearning for its function, its true function. And when we see an image of violence, it reminds us of what we're missing. Not violence, but the beauty of creation. And in a strange family way, violence has siblings called jealousy, envy, and hatred. So, someone said that she, I think, I don't know which word she used, but she said that she felt, I think, if she was using it today, she felt envy of Reverend Shoho

[12:25]

during her shiso ceremony. And she felt bad about that because it was kind of, I don't know the word, it was kind of an assault or a reaction against Soho to feel that. She saw the beauty of, the way when she saw Soho, she could see the beauty of the Pinnacle of Rising. the way a person together with the community interacting is dependacorizing. Feeling envy is that you wish to have what you see in another and what it is that you wish to have is dependacorizing. Somehow, something they do, they seem to have this, and you don't have it.

[13:32]

You can't see it in yourself, so you want to get it from them. You feel bad that they have it and you don't. It would be terrible if they had it and you don't. You long to have it, and you see it in them. And jealousy is like when you're being possessive and careful and suspicious around when you think you possess somebody who's got it. some beautiful person that you think you possess, they've got it. So you feel jealous that someone might take that from you. And hatred or ill will is the basic mode of going against .

[14:38]

in which violence is shaping images all the time. So I think the Buddha Dharma is pointing to the way to put violence where it belongs and relieve the world of hatred. And hatred is not the the carver of the imagination violence is in this story. Hitchard comes when you get out of touch with the way violence is working in the creative imagination. hatred and envy and jealousy. Those will be alleviated when we return to the Dharma, when we return to the creative process of our experience and see that we've got plenty of fully functioning violence there.

[15:57]

And violence doesn't need to go anywhere. And when we see images of it, we don't need them anymore. Violence is not an image, it's an image maker. We need to go to the playground. We need to go to the place where violence lives and functions in a living way as part of beauty. Every thought is a dependent core arising. And there's violence in the creation of every thought, according to the story. What about art?

[18:22]

I remember from playing... Martial art. Okay, martial art. I'm thinking of music. Music is martial art. Oh. Okay, that answers my question. Okay. The Buddha way is music. The buddha way is dancing. The buddha way is martial art. It's realization of the creative process of the universe. And there's violence sculpting all those little notes. This makes no sense to me.

[20:06]

Pardon? This makes no sense to me. Should it make sense? This world makes no sense to you? Yeah, it doesn't make sense either, but the music is also violence. Did I say music was violence? You implied it. No, there's violence working in the creative imagination. in music? The shape of images in the music, in the creation of music. I just can't see them. Do you create music? Is it being created in your mind? Yes. Okay. So I'm saying that there's violence in there shaping the images in your mind.

[21:15]

And I'm saying that that's your process. I'm suggesting you do. Unless you're totally involved in it, and then you don't learn it, because you're home. in the middle of the process where you want to be. And then you don't need any meaning that you had been yearning for. Are you now, are you in the middle of the creative process now? Yes, very much so. I don't know. Any yearning at this time? Yes. For what? I don't know. But there is yearning. I would call that yearning violence.

[22:19]

But you can use that yearning, that violence, you can use it to be creative right now and gain entry into the center of your life. I'm trying, but I'm trying too hard, I guess. You're trying too hard, maybe? Yeah, maybe so. There's an art here of learning this way to enter. Find your place right now. Moving around, trying too hard enough, trying too hard,

[23:29]

searching for the creative center of your life? I need to sit. How about dance with it a little bit more? At your seat. Are you dancing with it? Not yet. Not yet? Not yet. It is, it is evading. It is what? It is evading. Awaiting? Evading. Evading. It's called the evading dance? The evading dance, yeah. Okay, that's your style. Well, let's make it a dance. Or do you want to make it into something, you want to keep it as not a dance? It's all the same.

[24:33]

Do you want to keep it as all the same? I assume I do it. You assume you do? Yeah. What do you think ...an image more in accord with where you really are and who you really are. What would the image be? The girl who is looking for her head because she had no head. The girl was looking for her head? Yeah. Now, can you give that away? I don't know how.

[25:46]

Well, are you willing to give her away? Yeah. Okay, thank you. I'll receive her from you. Now, now what's your way? Is this your place? Right here, like this? Is this it? Is that it? No, this isn't it? No, it's not. Or what is it? Don't try to create it. Just be at the place where you're trying to create it. Are you breathing? All right. Are you moving around? You're looking around.

[26:49]

That's okay. There's no place. Right now you see no place. No place. Well, if that's true, then we say that's good for the stage of faith. Now, but you haven't yet found the stage of the person. The person's going to find a place, a room to live in. I have to stop trying to create.

[27:59]

You have to stop trying to create? Creating, yeah, creating. I don't agree that you have to stop trying to create. I think you have to enjoy that you are creating. I think you have to enjoy this creative process that's going on. I think that's what you're yearning for. It's endless. It's endless and it's beginningless. And meaningless. And it doesn't last. And you can say it's meaningless, too, if you want to. But even though it's meaningless, you will find the highest meaning if you Thank you very much.

[29:06]

You're welcome. Are you saying ignorance, delusion or violence? Pardon? Delusion or violence? I'm saying ignorance is ignoring violence working in your mind right now.

[30:08]

But violence is always present? Violence is the word I'm using for the shaping of image and imagination. And I'm saying that the reason why we're so concerned with it when we see it in the world is because we're not taking care of it in our own mind, in our own heart. We're not aware of the dependent origin of the violence? There's violence involved in dependent arising each moment in our own body and mind. I'm saying that. And if we attend to that, we won't be attracted to the images of violence, and we won't be horrified and frightened by the images of violence. We will see opportunities to awaken beings in both arenas, where the people are attracted or frightened.

[31:14]

That's what I'm proposing. The process of Dhammatical Arising is not violent itself, it's creativity, but creativity involves the shaping the carving of images. And that's something we want to be in contact with because it's going on at the same time. I'm proposing that. So this is similar to awareness of how we conventionally designate things. Yeah, conventional designation is a kind of violence. And if you're aware of it, how we together create these conventional designations that will be very satisfying, very calming and enriching. But the violence will always be a part of that, always part of the absolute.

[32:19]

Part of the absolute, did you say? No, it's part of the conventional. The violence makes conventions. Right. Conventions are cut and shaped in a divine way. And we want access to that. And when we have access to it, we're non-violent. Non-violent. So in a sense it's looking at violence management or something. Violence management? Did you say? No, I would say more like giving violence a playground, giving it the playground where it will exercise itself without doing any harm, where it will be creative, which is where it wants its natural environment.

[33:22]

And then we can work to realize nonviolence in the world of images. Violence in creating them leads to nonviolent images. There's violence in creating images of nonviolence. There's violence involved in creating peace. And that must always be so. That is always so. That's always so. Violence is always a part of peace. Violence is always part of creating. I'm saying that now. And when we're out of touch with that, we yearn and we're at risk of being jealous and hating what we're out of touch with.

[34:26]

We hate it because we're out of touch with it, because we're not included in the Dharma. In that way, when we use language, at this convention of language, you're saying that that also plays into this. Yeah, I'm using language now to say that violence is tipping us off, paying attention to. That we're conventionally designating something, as you're saying, violent. Yeah, I'm conventional. I have a conventional designation, which we use, called violence. And I'm saying that when we see that, I would recommend that we think about how that word is telling us about something we're not paying attention to in our own mind. and pay attention to it. And then I would say that we'll take care of the yearning which we yearn to take care of this thing which we want to totally be immersed in of the pinnacle of rising.

[35:42]

And the word violence, an image of violence, I would say that's telling us study the pinnacle of rising, study causation, and the yearning will be taken care of and hatred and envy and jealousy will be assuaged. Last night after I put water into the bucket as I was drinking the water from my bowl.

[37:07]

Can you hear her? Last night at dinner, I poured the water into the offering bucket, and as I was drinking the remaining water from my bowl, a voice in my mind, I heard a voice in my mind, my voice, say, I'm a demonic spirit from the untamed wilderness. So then I played with that offering that had come to me, and I thought about how we chant that. from the untamed wilderness come and gather here. And I thought maybe part of what had brought me here was the years and many times that people here had been chanting that. And I also thought perhaps I, eyes that are not a demonic spirit from the untamed wilderness might welcome the eyes of me that are demonic spirits from the untamed wilderness.

[38:10]

And so that was very helpful to me last night, especially because I was quite worn out by the time we came to and I was playing with that some more and And some other things came to offer themselves to play with me that were really very helpful, and I became much calmer and much more rested than I had been before I sat down. So I wanted to offer that. And in the context of what you're saying, that these things that present themselves, these thoughts that reveal something, might be some of this imaginary violence. imaginary violence. But I'm also saying that all these images, that the forming function, forming force of all these images, I think that's violence. And I think the violence in the world is saying, pay attention to that.

[39:15]

This needs attention. And if we don't pay attention to it, there's just going to be telling us, pay attention to that. Pay attention to that. And it's just going to get escalated until we pay attention to it. And when we pay attention to it, we won't have to be reminded of it by the external world, and we won't be attracted or horrified by it. Because we won't need the reminder. We can show them what it's reminding them of, the work it's pointing them to do. if they're attracted to it or repelled by it, show them that actually there's work that they need to do which will make everything peaceful. And will welcome the demonic spirits. Will welcome all the spirits. All the spirits. All the beings will welcome them. And when it is an image of violence, because we know the violence that makes the image of violence, we won't be unable, we will be able to welcome the image of violence.

[40:24]

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for those well-sculpted images. Just sit over there. Okay. I can feel this violence working in me.

[44:55]

Do you want people to hear you? I don't know. Do you want to hear him? Yes. Can you? If they would like to hear you, so if they hear you, would you speak? Okay. You can feel violence in your experience? Yeah. You can feel the images being shaped in your consciousness? But I feel the violence as, as the urine, aching.

[46:03]

As I'm not, I'm not, But you yearn to be at home? Yes. Can you see your thinking now?

[47:13]

See my thinking? Can you see what you're thinking? Yes. What are you thinking? I'm thinking... I'm not thinking about anything. Is that what you think? You think you're not thinking about anything? Yeah. I thought that there perhaps would be something, something that would point to the fear or the pain in me. But there's... You're thinking about that kind of thing?

[48:25]

Actually, I think I'm a little scared of the thought that ran through me earlier that I'd like to... Because I feel that's a little... A desire to scream? Yeah. But I'm afraid too. Are you feeling afraid now?

[49:32]

Not really, but not really. Not finished. Aaaaaaah! Amen.

[51:19]

So in Zazen, I've been playing with letting myself be. If I have some thinking or feeling, I just say, that's okay. I'm guessing you would say that process is violent. What I'm pointing to is that there's violence in the composition of the thing you're saying is okay. In the thinking.

[52:54]

The okay is also violence composing the okay. as I'm saying today, pointing to that dimension of the dependent core rising of what you're looking at and the dependent core rising of the practice of allowing it. There's a sharp focusing of those things. it would be more fully engaged in the process that you're trying to fully participate with. That's what I'm saying. Does that make sense? A little bit different than saying that those things are violence. Violence is the force, the shaping force that you're working with. And if you miss that, the shaping force, you're not opening to the fullness of the process, and then you're going to yearn for that opening.

[53:56]

And when you see violence, it reminds you to do it more fully. Which reminds me that when you do something and you feel you didn't do it completely, or didn't do it well, that also reminds you in another way to go back and look more thoroughly at the situation. To do it the way you really want to do it. The image that comes to my mind when you talk is a volcano. And it's very violent and very creative. Right. And that image reminds you of the violence that created the image of the volcano. An image of a field of flowers is as much of that image as the image of the volcano.

[55:03]

But the volcano reminds you of what it takes to make the image of a field and the image of a volcano. I don't think I'm fully appreciating the metaphor of violence in this context. I can see a creative generative process, I guess, but I don't see where violence becomes the apt description somehow. What I'm not saying is an apt description. I'm just saying that when you see violence in the world, and if you're not fully engaged, with the creative process of your life, you will be destabilized, you will have preferences, you will be frightened, and you will be envious.

[56:12]

All these things will arise in you if you're not taking care of something in you that's connected to those images. And those images of violence are ones that we get unstable about because we're not taking care of that same process in our own creative imagination. So the reason for using that word is non-violence is somehow an important word in Buddhism because people are not taking care of something inside themselves therefore they get all worked up about violence outside themselves rather than relating to the violence that teaches others what they need to take care of, because we're taking care of it. That's why the use of the word violence today. I'm not saying it's apt or not apt. I'm saying more it's like necessary.

[57:14]

It's essential. We have to pay attention to that aspect. of our mind, and I'm giving it the same name as what it is that reminds us of it. It reminds us that we're not taking care of it. That's why I use that word. That's helpful. It was just before the... I was in the sauna with somebody talking, and we were talking about the unusual weather we'd been having. And I was expressing my fear about global warming. And in this context of talking to this person, and in the sort of context where we are now, there was something extra in my concern about global warming.

[58:26]

And I think that's what you're getting at. My fear was sort of getting layered onto global warming, and it's not helping globally, making it harder. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. People question that. Is that not good? I think maybe you should listen to that. So, if you say, when I am feeling jealous... Could you say it again?

[60:04]

Could you say something about when I am feeling jealous, what you would suggest? Yeah, if I felt, let's see, jealousy, I would look and say, now, oh, I guess I, like, you know... I would say, I guess I think that the pinnacle rising is over there, you know, that there's some vital thing that I'm interested in and I think it's over there. So where is it in me? So it's reminding me, look back at the creative process that I'm already involved in. Look back at the Dharma. This is reminding me that I'm not intimate with it. I think it's over there in this person that I own.

[61:07]

You know, when they're around, I've got it, because it's there, you know. So when I feel jealous, that means I think it's over there. I'm exiled from the Dharma. So let's come back home. Let's find my place here. And in that way, it's nice that that person is there, and the jealousy is reminding me that I've got off center. I'm meditating on the Buddhist teaching. That's what I guess I would try to do when I felt jealous. Like, oh, they're doing good work over there. That reminds me of what I want to be doing, rather than, oh, they get to do it and I don't, and therefore I've got to possess them.

[62:07]

and make sure nobody takes them away from me. Because then I wouldn't have the Dharma anymore, I wouldn't have life, I wouldn't have beauty. That's my beautiful possession. So I jealously hold on to it. So when I feel jealousy, you know, what is it that I'm overlooking in the situation? Why am I isolating it over there and holding on to it? So when you're using the word violence, is it talking about the destruction before the creation? I would say destruction is, in some sense, part of creation. Or, you know, transformation is part of creation.

[63:14]

Shaping images is a kind of violence to what's going on. And those who are attending to this process understand that, feel, you know, are free of hatred and free of jealousy and envy. And when they see violence in the world, it reminds them of what they're already doing. They say, oh yeah, thank you for the reminder. And anybody else in the neighborhood that's reminding them of their work to do, So you relate to the violence from this place. The work to do? The work to do is look at yourself. Look at what's going on in yourself. But if you're already doing it, then you will relate, like a martial artist, to the violent situation.

[64:15]

You will have an artistic, creative response in the world, which is there to remind everybody to do their work. So rather than, I don't know what, creating more images of violence in response to the violence, not necessarily rather than, but Perhaps rather than, you have another response to it, a compassionate response, because you're doing your work of attending to the process in yourself, which is reminding people who are not taking care of it. You look like you're trying to get a hold of this and you don't quite get it. Is that right?

[65:16]

It's in the right position now. Thank you. Hello. It is time. I thought I had an offering. Now I see. Could you hear her? It is time. The air is ready. The sky has an opening. Okay. May I assist you?

[67:04]

Thank you. I thought of a poem today that I really loved. After I lift this one piece of incense, it is still there. Although it is still there, it is hard to lift. Now, I offer it to the Buddhas and burn it, repaying the benevolence of the founders of this temple and the ancestors and my master, Gyau Shin. I've always... Thank you. I've always wondered why it was hard to lift the incense.

[68:06]

Practicing wholeheartedly, I think. I understand. Do you have a response? Thank you very much. Can you explain, is there some relationship between this violence that you speak of and compassion?

[69:52]

Is there a relationship between the violence which is shaping our images? Yes. Yeah. Compassion attends to that violence. Compassion pays attention to what's going on in the mind. It doesn't just look at other people who are suffering and try to help them. It also studies the mind of the person who's practicing compassion. It looks and sees how the mind is working, how the images are being shaped. And it does so wholeheartedly so that the The compassion doesn't need a reminder to pay attention to what's going on in experience. It does pay attention. It watches the mind graciously. It does that work.

[70:56]

And when it sees violence, and if it doesn't respond to that compassionately, then it kind of, it tends to say, I must be overlooking something at home. because I'm not being compassionate towards that violence. I must be not being compassionate to something. So I look inside and say, oh yeah, this shaping force, this creative molding of experience, I wasn't paying attention to that. Therefore, I kind of freak out when I see it in the external world and helping others who are freaking out about it. But now that I remember, now I can be compassionate towards it and I can show others how to be compassionate towards it by looking at themselves. And then when they do that, they will be able to teach others how to be playful with the so-called images of violence.

[72:01]

how to become free of these images and teach others how to become free of these images by looking inward at what these images are reminding us to look at, but we don't. Somebody has to tell us what these images are telling us about and that our yearning sometimes appears as this violence. We're yearning to go home to dependent co-arising, to return to the Dharma, to return to the Buddha. And one of the reminders to return to Buddha is the appearance of... When we return to Buddha, we return to creation, in which violence is playing an essential role, which we weren't paying attention to. So that's one story of how compassion would be related to violence. It takes care of it at home and therefore when it appears other places it can take care of it there too.

[73:09]

And teach others how to take care of it by taking care of it at home. So being a martial artist in our own heart, we can be a martial artist in the world. Is this the violence that creates form in emptiness?

[74:32]

Is it the violence that creates form? Yes. It's the violence... What do you call it? The... Well, particularly it's the violence that creates the image, the idea, the word emptiness. And the fact that forms depend on this violence is one of the reasons why form is empty. In that sense, violence creates emptiness. But it creates emptiness indirectly by creating form. And since form depends on many factors, one of them being this cutting into a certain shape, that's one of the reasons why that dependent core is how form is empty. So you need this violence that cuts things into differentiation to have an image of any form. It's part of the creative process. And if we attend to it, we feel peaceful.

[75:39]

And then when we see images, they remind us, oh yeah, they remind us this is good work. And it's partly good work because I can be creative now with this external image or shared image in society, and I can show others who are and don't know what to do by it, I can show them a resource which will help them cope with it. May I? offer something slightly, slight shift of topic. Sure. When you said he wanted to scream. Yes. He was scared to scream. Yes. I wanted to shout out, you could scream in your imagination, which then takes away the limit that the vocal cords have like a physical limit.

[76:43]

And in the imagination, while actually still feeling the body, it could scream completely fully with no harm to anything. And I wanted to see, now I do see how to be in accord with that. I told off in the story that my first back spirit, Tassajara, for about two months I was angry every morning from about 3.30 until 8.30. And I noticed that I could be angry at everything in the universe. There was no talking. I just followed the forms of the practice during that time. I didn't talk to anybody. There was no social time. And I felt like I could blow the whole universe away. In my sitting, there was no limit to how angry I could be, how violent I could be. And that really helped me a lot.

[77:44]

Since then, I kind of I know. I'm much better off. This seems like a really important point to me because there have been times I've offered this a little bit and I've gotten the response, well, but we're not, it wasn't about screaming. It was about something actually a little more You know, it's punching or something. I think it was punching. I said, you could punch in your imagination and it's not harmful, especially if you're really aware. Especially if you're doing it as a wholehearted exercise. Right. You know, you're not really trying to hurt someone. You're trying to exercise this function. They said, no, you know, we're not supposed to... They were afraid it would feed the hate. Anyway, it feels like... Because I get worried for people that they suppress the aggression rather than let it come out in one horrible way.

[78:53]

So this would be to exercise the hate in order to get in touch with the creative process. Mm-hmm. As best you can, you feel that that's why you're doing it. You're doing it to exercise it, to open the Dharma up. And then you get to a place where I can't think of hurting that person. Well... What is that there? What is that limit? Is it really that you're afraid or half-hearted? What is it there? Look at that. And maybe come up, you know, maybe discuss it with someone. And that would be part of being wholehearted about this image and participating. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. At the start of your talk this morning, you mentioned that you thought a lot of men were attracted to war, heavy contact sports because of the violence or

[80:49]

Because they feel alive. A creative experience. Yeah, because they feel otherwise. The rest of their life they feel like 10%, and then they feel like 80% in a football game. Yeah. And they can be like little boys again, you know, and jump up and down and cry and scream. And they can't do that at home usually or at the office. But there they... Like especially in some ways, you know, like in Ireland and... Soccer. It's just wonderful how completely foolish and childish they can be. Yeah. Even more, I think, than... Anyway, they're great, the way they do that. And that's the only place some of them ever do it. Well, I think they even postpone wars for a day that they can have. But then you also say that It's less so with women because some women or most women have an opportunity of creating children.

[81:56]

I would say that not that women don't want that same thing, but they aren't totally bereft of it, some of them. They have other forms of access that a lot of men don't except for basically artists male artists have a similar access, or, you know, artists in the sense of practitioners of the way, they have access to it. But without art, most men, a lot of men anyway, don't have access to it, but a lot of women do through that process. That's what I'm saying. Where do you think gay men and lesbians fit in? Well, lesbians also can have children. So they get to have access to that. And gay men also can't have children. So gay men also, some of them anyway, really love war.

[82:58]

They tend not to as much. Well, maybe because gay men are a little bit more willing to go, Hi, how are you? You know, they're not so afraid to do that. And men who are willing to do that don't need to go to a soccer game to do it. But that willingness to scream, like you see some people get together, some women get together, just for lunch, and they scream across the restaurant at each other, and they run at each other and rip each other apart. And it's okay. But men don't do that so often. And a lot of the men who do do it are gay. It's permitted in the culture to totally freak out in public with other people, both male and female. So for men for whom that's not allowed, they get to do it at the football game or in war. So they hate the war, it's terrible, but they look back on it, a lot of them, as the one time in their life when they were really alive.

[84:07]

You know, when they were like totally, as close as they ever were to creation in the face of death. And other men, you know, drive us to jump off buildings. We're all yearning for this creative reality. The truth is creative. Creativity is what opens us unto truth. And yeah, so especially men who are stuck in a very mode of expression, war and professional sports, especially the ones where you're really, like even major league sports are the ones you can really get excited about. You're not supposed to get too excited about minor league sports. You can't totally freak out in those ones. You have to go with this major league. We're in a world class. Now we can totally let go. And they need an excuse and a permission to be alive and say, okay, here, you can be alive here.

[85:18]

And that's what I'm saying. It's a story. It's a good story. So when Freud talked about... civilization and discontents. I forget the word to use, but if you can move your aggression, for people to move their aggression or... Sublimation? Yes, sublimation into, let's say, plain cello or some other creative. Is that what you're also suggesting, that if people got in touch with it, they could... Yeah, in a sense, you can say, move ourselves into art. Another way I would say it is, the image of aggression you see in the world is reminding you that you should be doing your art. It's saying, do your artwork. You're not doing it. But again, the image itself, it's when you get caught up in it, when it's a symbol of yearning for you, when it reminds you of something that's missing.

[86:26]

You know, like, for example, peace. For some people, the image of violence reminds them that there's no peace. For someone else, the image of violence reminds them of peace. And if they see anybody else who doesn't know how to see peace in the neighborhood of violence, they want to teach them by playing the cello or the violin or the oboe. It is a gift to be simple. It is a gift to be free. It is a gift to come down. You know, they were reminding us of creativity through their participation in the intense shaping of those notes and the intense placement of their fingers and their breath. as they were, you know, dancing energetically before us. And a final question.

[87:31]

It's more of a confession, which I've talked to you before about. And I'm wondering if it plays a role, which I suppose it does. I'm kind of addicted to news, but addicted to the chaos of news. Like... I'm not reading the headlines or the paper to find out that, you know, they've discovered a new cheese in Switzerland. It's more serious, you know, gun battle going on somewhere. And it's like there's a yearning inside to get more of that, rather than, I mean, people, newspapers, so and so. Right. And that's part of it? Yeah. The middle way is the middle way between chaos and strict determinism. That everything's like set. And chaos is disorder, right?

[88:32]

So those are the extremes. If you're not working with them inside, you do really want to work with them. And the way you want to work with them is not really get involved in either, but go through it. But have them like in your face all the time. Because they are. They're alternatives to the middle way. They're extremes which we have to deal with all the time in the practice. And if you're not dealing with chaos in your own daily experience, then you want to find some way to get at it. And the newspapers remind you. But if you're working really wholeheartedly on a form, Chaos is right there. And you don't mean into it, and you don't mean away from it. And then you don't feel addicted to the newspaper. You maybe read a newspaper, but it's not because you don't have with the extreme of chaos in your moment-by-moment experience.

[89:45]

the specter of chaos is there every moment, and the specter of determinism is there every moment. And if you're practicing a form wholeheartedly, and you can see if you're leaning in one way or the other, and so you're intimate with them, and then you're not addicted to getting things under control completely, or experiencing the vitality of the opposite, which then can slip into disorder. Causation is orderly, it's not chaotic, it's effective, it's not chaotic, but it's not deterministic. And so meditating on this will make it so that you still may read the news, but it'll be, you know, A reading that, you know, if I come and take the newspaper away from you, no problem to you.

[90:50]

Thank you. You're welcome. And then they gave me a high-carol screen. They go, whoo! When you talk about returning to dependent arising, I felt a kind of violent aversion, which I don't understand.

[91:58]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think of causation or dependent arising as a process, but it sounds like you're also talking about it as a thing. Could you explain? Excuse me. The word dependent causation by the Buddha means both causation, which is a process, but it also means a principle, which is the word causality means the principle. of causation. So it's both used as a process and a principle. So you're doing a kind of shorthand. Pardon? Go ahead, Steve. So that's a kind of shorthand when you say just something like one returns to Buddha, one returns to dependent.

[93:01]

It's a shorthand for what? the principle of dependent arising? It's both. It's both the principle and the process. And I'm suggesting use the principle to remind you what you're meditating on. But how can you... I mean, you're never away from it. You can be distracted from it, though. And distracted from it is when you, like, think of something existing independently. which is pretty much all the time. Yeah, so then pretty much all the time, if you remember you're distracted, you go back. You don't have to return, but since we're pretty much all the time distracted, we have to keep returning to the teaching. We have to keep being mindful of meditating on dependent co-arising, on the process. So yesterday you talked about Suzuki Roshi saying that one should be most formal, or also you noticed that he was more formal with people he was most intimate with.

[94:18]

So do you see that formality as... I'm wondering how that formality relates to the violence and the... There's a kind of violence in the formality. Violence in the formality? Yeah, in the shaping of the form, there's a kind of violence. involved. I would say that the shaping of the form is... I would say that that's part of what I mean by violence is that shaping. The shaping of the image of the forms. I would say that that's violence. Then how do you see that as promoting intimacy? Well, the violence is necessary to have the form. The form is necessary in order to have the intimacy. So somebody, like Suzuki Roshi, and you have somebody else called a student, as they get closer, they need more and more form to get closer.

[95:32]

They need a form to work on together, you know. Like, let's turn it this way a little bit. No, not quite that far. Let's set it down here. Not here, not over there. I want it over here. You do? Well, okay. We're intimate, right? No. How do we realize it? We realize it. And as you get closer and closer, you get more and more formal. It pops in my head. One time I was... I was climbing in the Austrian Alps with Jerry Fuller and Banya Palmers, and we started heading up the thing, and they didn't give me any instruction about how to climb the mountain. They both experienced mountain climbers. They didn't give me any instruction. But as we got more and more intimate with the mountain, which is similar to higher and higher, and also the path

[96:39]

As the three of us got more and more intimate, they gave me more and more instructions and more and more specific about how to execute them. And like, you know, surgeons are very formal about the way they do eye surgery. It's very formal because they're so intimate with the patient's eyes. They're not pals with the patient, necessarily. It's not an informal... It's a very intimate, highly formalized... And when this operation is over, that intimacy loses its formality, and so it's lost. Unless the doctor has other forms to be intimate with the patient after the surgery. have forms that they use to talk to the patients afterwards.

[97:44]

And so they can have another kind of intimacy. But some doctors use, and patients, and nurses, and assistants, they all have these forms that they use to get very intimate with each other. It's very dangerous. And it's very dangerous. Intimacy is very dangerous. And so, but they can, both parties can allow it. because of lots of formality. And also there's legal formalities now, too, as part of it. All these things we signed before we had these operations. And as you've said many times, in that danger is great opportunity. Great opportunity for healing. Yeah. So, yeah. So the other day about that, I was thinking of my grandson, and I had thought that I want to be intimate with him, and in some level I am, but if I want to realize, I need to find some form for it.

[99:01]

We have to study math together or build something together or play something together. And the more intimate, the more formal we are, the more we get into the form of our relationship, the more . So I care for him very much, but to be intimate with him, I need some form. And I think, you know, this is a moment of verging on jealousy, no, verging on envy. I think, well, his teachers at school, they have all these forms that they can use to be intimate with him. So that's when I thought, how wonderful to be a teacher because you have these forms to be intimate with your students. and how wonderful to be able to be appropriately intimate with children through the forms of education. It's just that they're so wonderful and here's an appropriate way to really get close to them.

[100:06]

And so I think now what ways could I, if I want to realize intimacy with him, What ways can I offer to our relationship so that we could work together to keep working on our intimacy? and then watch to see that if I become envious, it's because I think that the creative process that he has with his teachers is out there, rather than I'm part of it, you know, totally support them to have this wonderful intimacy. But still in order to fully realize that I need forms to engage with, to appreciate it. So I have to think about how wonderful it is and really wish them well so that I'm not seeing their happiness outside myself. Their dependent core rising is separate from me.

[101:09]

May our intention equally...

[101:25]

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