Yeah, so I think that's everybody. And was anybody not here last week? Raise your hand. Some people were not here. Okay. So last week I introduced the teaching or the concept. And in general, when I introduce something, I usually put it out there like, here's something I'm offering to you. It's kind of an assertion. But it also can be considered a thought experiment, something to meditate on, something to question. I don't mean what I say to be taken unquestioningly. So I offer these three forms of compassion. And to briefly reiterate them, first type is called compassion, which has beings as an object or as objects.

[01:23]

And in particular, it has beings who are considered or to be believed to be substantially existing beings. So beings are the object. They're seen as out there separate from the subject. They're seen as substantial. And their suffering is also an object of compassion. And the suffering is also seen as substantial. as self-existence. And the compassion also, and the compassionate being, may also be considered as substantially existing. This is the kind of compassion which we're more familiar with. The second type of compassion is called compassion according to or according with

[02:33]

the dharma. And this compassion sees the objects of the first but sees them as insubstantial, as non-substantial. And sees their suffering and their delusions as non-substantial. And sees the compassion as non-substantial. And the third type of compassion, called great compassion, or Buddha's compassion, does not have objects. The first type of compassion has, you might say, shortcomings, or... drawbacks.

[03:39]

The shortcoming is that when we see beings as substantially existing and we're devoted to them, we are at risk of abandoning them. Because when we see them as substantially existing and when we see our attempts to help them as substantially existing, It creates outflows in our life energy. It enervates us. It tires us. So that we feel like we're either being deflated or our energy is being drawn, being drained out of us in the relationship. And we may even think that the other person is sucking our energy out of us. It's sucking it, but the way we see them sucks it.

[04:44]

Or another possibility is when we see them as substantially existing, we may feel like energy is flowing into us and we become inflated and get bigger and bigger, eventually in a catastrophe. So it both inflation and deflation are potential drawbacks of the first type of compassion. And also that kind of compassion is in danger of being attached objects and being attached to the compassion and being attached to benefiting beings, which also has draining enervating, discouraging consequences. The second type of teaching incorporates the teaching that what we see before us, the things that appear in mind, are not as they actually are, but a thought construction of beings.

[05:58]

We are devoted to help beings But the Dharma is also saying to us that the way they appear in consciousness is an illusory version of them. And if we keep that teaching in mind, then we things with a sense that we're observing an illusory version of them, a personal, in a sense, a personal view of them, a thought constructed rendition of them, not the actual person, or the actual suffering, or the actual compassion. This type of compassion, we see beings who are devoted to them, but we don't grasp them. We don't apprehend them. We just give ourselves to them without grabbing them. The second type of compassion frees us from the mental drawbacks of the first type of compassion.

[07:03]

Once again, the first type of compassion is called famously in the Vimalakirti Sutra, sentimental compassion. And in the sutra it says that if you practice this kind of compassion towards beings, you will either try to get rid of them or run away from them. Not realizing that it's not the beings that are the problem, but your sentimental view of them. The second type of compassion, frees us from the first type of compassion. Again, the second type of compassion does not get rid of beings. However, it has a drawback, and its drawback is that it tends to apprehend non-substantiality. And if we apprehend non-substantiality, that also undermines our intimate and wholehearted engagement with illusory beings.

[08:11]

So the third type of compassion, great compassion, we're intimately involved with beings that we are not grasping the illusory quality of them, and we are not grasping the non-substantial aspect of them. We are just one and the same as all beings. Great compassion is just intimacy with all beings. And this is what, this intimacy is what liberates all beings. So that's a summary of that discussion from last week. These three are not mentioned in the text, which we have been considering, but I think we will find them there. So tonight I would like to introduce or look at some of the other verses.

[09:14]

I'd like to look at verse 31, which could be translated. This talks about five types or five kinds of result of compassion or five fruits of compassion. So the text says, it is not far away at all from the victor's spiritual heirs and heiresses who rely upon the dharma. I would say, I would add, the dharma of compassion, which prevents violence. That's the first fruit. prevents violence, which is a seed of superior awakening or enlightenment. That's the second fruit.

[10:15]

Third, brings happiness and delivers, is what it actually says, but in parentheses, which brings happiness to oneself and delivers other beings. And fourth, the compassion which causes the desire, and five, naturally imparts itself. Okay, these are five, [...] five. Now, I'm going to try something now and you can tell me how it goes for you. These five results are, I would say, they don't all come at once necessarily when practicing compassion.

[11:19]

They could come separately at different times. And they do, however, what did I say? They do kind of summarize the different types of fruit of our action. So in Buddhist teaching in India, they spoke of five types of fruits or five types of results of our action. of our compassion, but also other types of action, have these five fruits. So the first type, again, I'm going to try this, the first type is called, we can translate it into English, as bonding fruit.

[12:23]

or in Sanskrit, visam yoga phala. Bondage severance fruit. And that means that by practicing compassion, excuse the expression, our human bondage to violence is severed. That's the first type of fruit that comes from practicing compassion. The second type, the seed of superior awakening, is called the dominant fruit. In some sense, the most important fruit, influential fruit for our life. is that the practice of compassion is a seed for superior enlightenment.

[13:35]

In Sanskrit called or actually. The third brings happiness to oneself and delivers others. And that is called the heroic consequence, the heroic fruit of compassion is that self and delivers others. The fourth is that practicing compassion is the cause of the desirable life of the bodhisattva. It's the cause of the life which the bodhisattva aspires, the life of saving all beings. and attaining Buddhahood for the welfare of beings. Compassion is the cause of that life. And this is called maturation fruit.

[14:42]

This is the fruit coming to maturity in the form of the life which the Bodhisattva wishes to live. This is not the seed, this is the fruit. This is the fruit, fruit. Gives of its own nature or gives of itself or imparts itself. So in this way, it's kind of like familiar with compassion one of the consequences of compassion is more compassion is is the consequence of compassion so by practicing compassion one of the results is to be able to practice compassion it's not like compassion controls a compassion is going to be practiced It just flows into more compassion.

[15:46]

But the compassion that flows, the Sanskrit is Nishyanda Pala, which means even flowing, which means the compassion flows kind of evenly into another manifestation of self. But it's not like exactly the same. So these are the five results of compassion as taught in this text by Asanga. Ready for another verse? Point of clarification is, are we talking about all three of the compassions or just one in particular that produces these results? I would say that all three might produce results, but great compassion definitely produces all five.

[16:46]

And the first type might produce, but thank you for that question. I would stay actually, I take a bath. Three have these results. It's just that the first type in order to have this result, we have to get over the first type and the second type in order to have this result, but they are part of the causal process. All three are part of the process. And as also I mentioned last week, it refers to the first type as sentimental great compassion or loving view great compassion. So they're all embraced by great compassion. But in order to realize these results, we have to be two types, but we can't become free of the first two types unless we've practiced them for a while. So thank you for that question, Tracy.

[17:50]

The next two, yeah, I think the next two, this next one is the compassionate genius, is that what you have? which is the bodhisattva, understands that everything included in the life cycle of samsara is naturally both suffering and selfless. Everything in samsara is suffering and selfless. And the bodhisattva understands that. And because they understand They are neither disgusted about the suffering, nor are they damaged by its faults.

[18:54]

Because the suffering is selfless, they're not disgusted by it. Because they understand, no, excuse me, because of their compassion, They are not disgusted by suffering. And because they understand that all things are suffering, no, are selfless, they are not harmed by them. Once again, because the Bodhisattva sees all things in samsara as suffering, as marked by samsara, they do not get disgusted. Because they see them as selfless, they are not harmed by them. So, because they do not see them as disgusting, they do not push them away. Or, they also abide in nirvana.

[20:03]

Bodhisattvas can attain peace. They can attain nirvana. But, They do not abide in it because of their compassion for samsara. Also, sattvas do not abide in samsara because they understand that everything in it is selfless. So they neither abide in samsara, which is selfless, nor do they abide in nirvana, Abiding in nirvana would be disgusted by the world of suffering. Abiding in samsara would be the result of seeing suffering as having a self. If we see suffering as substantial, we abide in samsara. If we see suffering as having a self, we abide in nirvana.

[21:11]

If we see suffering as selfless and do not have compassion, we abide in nirvana. The bodhisattva can live in nirvana and samsara. They can live in either one and they abide in neither. It is about really understanding samsara. When she observes the natural suffering of the world, the loving bodhisattva suffers Yet she knows just what it is as the means to avoid it. And so she does not become exhausted. So she observes the world of suffering beings and because of her compassion, she suffers.

[22:21]

But she suffers because of compassion not because of seeing beings as substantial. She sees beings which see the world and its suffering as substantial suffering. Because she cares for these beings. Otherwise, there would be no suffering for her. Then in addition, she knows how to avoid the suffering, which is to understand selflessness. So, in the world, and suffer in the world because of her love and compassion, and she's not exhausted because she understands the world is selfless. If we live in the world because of our compassion, but don't understand the world is selfless, we get exhausted.

[23:23]

Okay, that was a lot, and I think maybe I shouldn't... Do you think that's enough verses, or should I do some more? Should we switch to conversation now, or should I do some more verses? Any comments? Maybe all those who need to stop, raise your hand. OK. And those who wish me to continue, Few people didn't vote, right? It looks like 50-50. I guess I could stop for a while. Was that okay for the people who want me to continue? Is it okay if we stop?

[24:31]

Any comments? I'm open to the feedback. I'm open to stopping. Stopping. Stopping is good. We can stop. Stopping is good. Any votes for not stopping? Anybody not stopping vote? Okay. So we've got verse 34. And now we can pause now and see if you have any questions or comments. So I am having getting my head around the relationship between suffering and selflessness, and the one being that you suffer, seeing suffering as selfless versus seeing it the opposite.

[25:38]

And so can you elaborate? It doesn't strike me as, it doesn't immediately jump out and grab me. I mean, I think I understand the words, but it's not, I'm having a hard time getting it. So one simple definition of suffering is to grasp things, and grasping them depends on thinking they have something to grasp, that they have a self. So believing that things have a self leads to us grasping them, and when we grasp them, we suffer. So the cure of suffering, for suffering, is to see that the things which we could, which we used to grasp, because we thought they had a self, to see them as selfless and not grasp them. This is relief of suffering. If I could follow up, but, so let me translate that into, but you have compassion.

[26:44]

for a person, compassion for a group of people, compassion for a condition of things. But it seems to me when you think of that, maybe it's just because I'm mired in sentimental compassion, you have it towards that entity as a person who exists and has substance. So I'm just trying to put that together with what you just said. Yeah, good. So in the first type of compassion, if we feel compassion and we see them as substantially existing and graspable, then we suffer. And we suffer because we're grasping them. We still are practicing compassion towards them, but we haven't yet moved on to incorporate the teachings that things are suffering, we see the suffering, but we have not yet seen the selflessness, and therefore we are suffering.

[27:51]

And then we maybe want to get away from these beings because of our suffering, because we are testing them as substantially existent. I'm sorry, if I can follow up one more time. So I was thinking earlier, though, when you were talking about the danger or the drawbacks of sentimental compassion, for example, taking that first. Yes, I can see the tendency toward burnout or the tendency being, I don't know how you can put it this way, but wrapped up in your compassion, in the idea of yourself as a compassionate person and what you get out of it and all that, that that's all a danger. But it's one thing to say it's a danger, it's a possibility, or maybe even that it might happen. I'm saying it inevitably will happen if you don't move on to the second type of compassion. Okay, I'll say it inevitably will happen.

[28:53]

And wanting one moment of this type of compassion for, you know, burnout. But repeating it, because we don't really, when we're drained of our energy, even our compassion energy, we're not drained of it all at once. It's little by little, case by case. And I sometimes use the example of, it's been a while now, but sometimes during retreats, I would see a lot of people, like, Maybe there sometimes might be 90 people in the retreat and I might see them multiple times. If I was seeing two people a day or one person a day, I could see them with some sentimental compassion and survive. But if I'm seeing many people a day and I do it that way, I would just collapse.

[29:58]

if you repeat this pattern enough, you will actually go into collapse, compassion collapse or compassion fatigue. But it won't happen all at once. It happens, you know, bite by bite or leak by leak. But eventually, you would be depleted to such a point you couldn't go on anymore. But the first type of compassion is definitely part of the program We can't skip over it. We have to start there. And the second type of compassion will free us from the problems of the first type. And just one last thing. Do we continue practicing the acts of compassion even when we're in the second type where we are recognizing that the objects of our compassion are not substantial? Yes. And in the third type, It's just in the third type, you're not practicing compassion towards anything.

[31:05]

You just are compassion. And everybody you're with, you and everybody you're with, that's the compassion. But the second type, you're still a little bit of holding on to the non-substantiality, which that can undermine, not by draining you, but by undermining your wholeheartedness. That's helpful. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for the question. I see two people, Yuki and Jiren. Yeah, I see myself. Sonia. And Gayatri. Okay. Am I supposed to speak? I think you were first.

[32:08]

Cool. Here you go. My question is very similar to his in a way. You talked about unbonding, and I think you related it to... It was particularly severing the bond to violence. To bond to violence. Which is also resistance to compassion. So it severs our resistance to compassion or severs, compassion severs the attachment, the bondage or the habitual violence. It severs resistance to compassion. Resistance to compassion. That's the first fruit. I guess my question is, what is the relationship between the growth of compassion and all beings?

[33:14]

In other words, if I and, and is a corollary, do I have to sever the bonds between and see things as insubstantial to have a sense of non-self? If I haven't reached that stage, will I have... First you said, what's the relationship between beings and growth of compassion? Yeah, like, I mean, it sounds like... Beings are what compassion eats. Compassion grows on beings. Beings are what compassion grows on. It's the soil. that it grows in. That's one relationship. Beings are the nourished by beings. And of course, compassion nourishes beings and teaches them to be nourished by beings. But it sounds like there's a mirror there because if I'm caught in sentimental compassion, it sounds like

[34:19]

I'm sending compassion out, but the other ones have all beings in them. So there's a more one-heartedness. I'm actually learning greater compassion in ways I could not do on my own. You can send compassion out and you can send compassion in. You can send it in, out or in. In the first two types, you can send compassion out to beings who are other or into self. And all the things that make up the self, you can say you send compassion or you can welcome compassion to come into you. You can welcome compassion to come into you. Like we chant, you know, the 10 phrase sutra of Guanyin. We do that chant to invite into us and address us, address our suffering.

[35:24]

But also we chant it to send it out. So we send it out and we invite it in. We direct it out. We direct it in. Go out. Come in. Both. everything directed towards all beings outward and all beings inward. It sounds like it's something you can't really do. You have to allow it to happen, but I'm not sure. I think a big part of it is allow it to happen, but allow it to happen. I allow you to happen rather than just passively. I welcome you. Please come. I welcome you to go help All beings. So you're not really doing it, but you're just sort of welcoming it and allowing it. And remembering it. You're remembering you're not doing it. You're receiving it. You're not doing it.

[36:24]

You're practicing it, but you're not doing it. Right. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Good evening, Reb. Good evening, Gayatri. Reb, before I ask my question, I wanted to ask you how your knee is doing. It's less painful than last week. Okay, that's getting better. That's good to hear. And your aunt is giving me lots of medicine for it. Oh, good. Good, good, good. Yay. She has all these Ayurvedic potions. So that's great. So my question, Reb, so it's really, it's a good question because in the work that I do, I see several people during the day where I, you know, I'm meeting them one-on-one.

[37:28]

We're talking. They share their suffering. I listen. I offer certain practices. So there are days when, like I said, where I can feel the tiredness of the work. One thing I've learned, though, is that I don't hold on to the stories usually. The next day, it's a fresh start. I don't carry the previous day with me. But can you offer... In which to remember. So the insight of no self, it's something that is there, but it hasn't been established in a real way. So when I'm actually interacting with a person, it does feel like, okay, here's a person with real suffering. But is there a way for me to remember the no self in, you know, the truth of that? So some kind of practical ways in which I can remember it and use it in the work that I do so that the compassion is more of the second, the first kind.

[38:41]

I think there's many ways. One way that just came to my mind is I'm talking to you now and I remind myself Gayatri is not what I think she is. This inconceivable being that I'm aware of is not how she appears in my consciousness. She is appearing in my consciousness, but of course I know that the way she's appearing right now is not like she would look if she was in But I could, some people might actually fall for this image on a screen as being you. But I think it's good for me to remember, I don't know who you are. I'm devoted to you. I'm devoted to somebody. And I remember, I don't know. And you're not what I think you are.

[39:44]

But I do think you're, you know, something. My mind does put you together. but i remind myself she's not how my mind is creating her she's not how my body creates her devoted to her and actually i i feel lighter and i remember that even if you you know if you appear to be wonderful and i remember you're not the way you appear to be wonderful That protects me from drain, from being burnout. If I remember, if I think you're a monster, I don't know what I think she is. I think she's a monster, but she's not the monster I think she is. Who knows what she is? She might be an angel. She might be even a greater monster than I thought, but she's not what I think she is. That lightens my relationship and supports me to continue in compassion. That's just one example of, remember, people are not what I think they are.

[40:50]

There's Gayatri. She's not what I think she is. I don't know what she is. To the mystery of Gayatri. I could go on many other examples, but maybe that's enough for now, and you could ask me for another one later. Okay. Yeah, so I guess in a practical sort of way, like if I'm about to meet somebody, and so just before I start any interaction, you know, just kind of just saying exactly what you said, okay, this person who I'm about to meet is not who I think that person is, and it's not the way they appear to me, and their suffering is not the way I may be. understanding it so I so I kind of just remind myself of that and then and then is there a way after the fact to also kind of to release it you know you know to release the that interaction and to start fresh again do you do you know what I'm you know the after to again there's many ways but one way is

[42:04]

Let go of it. Let go of it. And as my grandson sometimes says, let's not dwell on the past or the future. And again, if you're seeing multiple people, and if I think of the next person, that drains me for this person. And if I think of the last person, that drains me for this person. So I would try and not think of who I just saw or who I'm going to see next, but just work with this person. Kind of like, in an excuse expression, it kind of plugs up the holes. Mm-hmm. Good evening.

[43:06]

Good evening. It's almost the same question as Gayatri's. I was wondering if the transition from sentimental compassion to compassion with spirituality, whether that can be accomplished by an act of will or an act of intellect, and how much are we kind of in charge of that? that shift in our way of thinking? Approximately zero in charge. So I like the structure of your question. And I would say that the transition from sentimental compassion to the next type, which is, you could say, including the Dharma, So I notice, I'm aware that I have sometimes slipped into or I'm at risk of having sentimental compassion.

[44:12]

So I bring in this teaching of, okay, I'm with this person and try to remember is an illusion of the person. That helps me make the transition from sentimental to the next type. I didn't get rid of the image of the person that's constructed by my mind. I just let go of the idea that the person, that the imaginary person before me is the person. I let go of that with the teaching that this is an image of the person. So there's the transition. And then you said, is there will involved there? Well, the thought, the intention, to remember the teaching of dependent core arising, that this thing is a thought construction, the wish to remember that is a kind of will. I wish to remember the teaching.

[45:13]

When I'm talking to people, I wish to remember the teaching. So in a sense, in that moment is kind of like my vow, but it's also kind of like the tendency of that state of mind. However, that does not, that wish is not in control. I'm not in control of the wish, and the wish is not in control of me. However, that wish might, especially if it's a compassionate wish, might lead to remembering that what I'm seeing here is an illusion of the person. But I can't control myself to remember. I can't control the teaching to remember me. And I can't control that once the teaching has been remembered, I cannot and the teaching cannot control the next moment when that teaching might be applied.

[46:18]

However, influence the process it has consequences and one of the consequences is this even flowing one if you think of this teaching one of the consequences is the even flowing consequence the consequence of as i said what did we say i've been so the wish to remember imparts itself to the wish to remember to remembering But there's nobody in control in this process. But everything we do has consequences. And the teaching is helping us and participate in this process of evolution. But we're not in control of it. The Buddha is not in control of this. The Buddha is just beaming the teaching. The Buddha can't control us to listen to it and remember it and practice it. We say, please listen, please remember.

[47:22]

But that doesn't control us. But it has consequence. And we can say to ourself, please remember. That has consequence. And part of the consequence is another moment of saying, please remember. But it's not control. It sets up kind of a feedback loop of some sort. Yeah. Yeah. There's a feedback loop, but the feedback loop is not in control of the feedback process. And partly because nobody's in control, everybody can be free. If somebody was in control, if the Buddha was in control, we'd all be Buddhas. If the devils were in control, we'd all be devils. But neither Buddha nor devils are in control. We're in this process. What you just said is also true of the transition from the second kind of compassion to the third.

[48:26]

Yeah. So some of us in this assembly have sometimes been involved in sentimental compassion. Not to mention other things. But we have sometimes practiced compassion, but we've done it in a sentimental way. And so we're opening, I feel this group is quite open to the feedback that there's some drawbacks in the way we've been practicing compassion. And people are like taking this teaching in and maybe there's some evolution here. Some groups, under some circumstances, people would be outraged if you would bring up the possibility that they're sentimentally compassionate. Because they actually think my compassion is real. This is real compassion. Okay. Thank you.

[49:26]

I can go next. I'm thinking about that might be useful to try and really flesh out how recognizing the insubstantiality of self, other, and suffering helps to avoid the exhaustion or the abandonment. A red flag goes up when you say recognize self. Selflessness? Is that what you said? The insubstantial nature. The recognition of it is not the same as understanding it. You're hearing the teaching of the insubstantial quality of these images. If you meditate on that teaching, you will realize it. If you actually see the selflessness, that's not selflessness.

[50:37]

Selflessness is not something you can recognize. You can recognize the word selflessness. You can recognize the teaching of it. But it's not something to recognize. It's something to understand. Something to realize. Realize, understand, become. Right. Why don't you like recognize? Because it makes it an object that actually exists. Okay. It's not an object. It's the fact that all objects are in substantiality. And you can recognize all those substantial objects, but you can't recognize the insubstantiality of those substantial objects. It's just a, yeah, it's like a semantic impossibility. You can understand things that appear to be substantial and you can understand that they're not.

[51:44]

Just like I can see the way you look and you do look this way and you do not look like the plant behind you or the pictures on the wall. You do not. You look like this. And I can also remember not the way you look. And by remembering that, I can actually start to understand it. And so you can look like a really this way or really that way, and I don't get drained by it. So that's one way. So that's one way that Realizing or understanding the insubstantiality of self, other, and suffering frees you from the exhaustion and the tendency to abandon. So I was thinking I wanted to really flesh out more. So I was thinking, okay, well, what are the, like, why does this work?

[52:47]

Why is this important? What's it look like? So I was thinking, well, if I didn't, if I was stuck in sentimental compassion, I might have a feeling of, see this suffering being and i think oh my god this poor person i have to help them or i have to do something or i have to fix it that then that would be a substantial uh view of it which could leave me exhausted not quite no as you said really are just more beings for example i have to help this person that's another being Right. That's another being in you. Right. That's the first way, the compassion. No, that's a being. Oh, the thing that says I need to help that person is a being.

[53:50]

Yeah, I have to help that person. That thought is a being. Okay. But thinking that thought is substantial, that's the sentimental. Yes, I do want to help these beings. Yes, I do. But that's another being. And if I think I want to help those beings, it's substantial. Then I have sentimental compassion towards my own good wish to help beings. So you can wish to help beings. And remember, wish to help beings is not the way it appears to me. It's another insubstantial thing. Then it's not sentimental compassion. For yourself who has that thought, the helper is not a substantial helper. Her good wishes are not substantial good wishes. The things she wishes to help are not substantial. But you can look at a being and still be seeing them as substantial and wish to help them, but catch yourself and not believe that you wish to help them as substantial.

[54:54]

And the wish to help them is not substantial because it arises upon the situation and both beings in the situation. That's part of the logic of why it's insubstantial. Yeah. It wasn't there before this person showed up and this feeling of wanting to help them came up because of them. It wasn't there all the time. It's not going to last. Everything's changing. That will help you realize. So the basic teaching is all this is insubstantial. And then you just talked about some of the reasons why everything's insubstantial. Are there any other ways that you want to put forward to see the insubstantiality? Yes, the rest of this class and beyond will be the ways that I do. I had another idea, like if you see the suffering of the other person without seeing the causes and conditions and the nature of that suffering, then you might feel more overwhelmed and drained as well when you see their actual causes of their suffering.

[56:10]

You can't see all the causes. No, not all of them, but know that they are infinite. Know that they're infinite. That will also from grasping them and grasping their suffering. And that will open you to understanding the causation eventually. And the last thing before I lose it, the seeing. Oh, I lost it. Oh, well, it's okay. There was something you said earlier. Nah, it's gone now. I had it for a second. I did too. Thank you. You're welcome. I want would be benefit from making this more concrete.

[57:39]

I listen every week to people I care deeply about who are suffering in their attempt to help others. They are social workers and doctors and parents. They are dealing with heinous crimes that are committed against children that they witness secondhand. Um, I want to support them and not be overwhelmed by their overwhelm. And yeah. Red flag.

[58:40]

Point to it. Want to not be overwhelmed. Okay, I am overwhelmed. Yeah, so before that you were talking about witnessing them. Yes. Then you added in what you wanted to not be overwhelmed. Yeah, I don't want to reflect their overwhelm. That's something which should be witnessed also. Don't get into that. Don't get into that wanting to not be overwhelmed. Overwhelmed. Just witness that like you're witnessing these people. Witness that with compassion. Don't apprehend as a real thing the wish not to be overwhelmed. That just creates more overwhelm. Can you help me more with that? Some suffering being. They want you to.

[59:43]

Okay? Okay? They do not want you to try to not be overwhelmed. That's not what they want. That's not what they want from you. They want you to witness them. And then there's a being in you that comes up, which is, feel overwhelmed. And another being comes up, I don't want to be overwhelmed. Those two are equally... deserving of compassionate witnessing as the person, the people you were originally looking at. So, try to like implement not being overwhelmed. Just like when you're listening to people, don't stick your head in their suffering, witness it. Don't stick your head in, I'm feeling overwhelmed, witness it. Don't stick, I don't want to be overwhelmed. Witness it. Don't push the beings away.

[60:45]

Don't push the overwhelm away. Don't push the beginning of overwhelm or the middle of overwhelm. Don't push the I don't want to be overwhelmed. Witness all those things. What does that look like in conversation when someone is expressing to you that this week they met with a child who was raped by their father and is an immigrant and whether to report the father and then risk the child being deported. What would that look like if I were to be witness to that? I can't say exactly what it would be, but the first thing that came to my mind was to help that person who's talking to you. Yeah. They're the first responder, right? Yeah. So try to help them with how they're feeling.

[61:48]

Ask them how they're feeling. How are they feeling? You can right now help them with that. And then you can help them look at, are they actually witnessing how they're feeling? Like what you do with us. Yes, and you could do that. Then if you can witness them and help them witness themselves, that will help them when they go back to the situation. They can help those other people get in touch with how they feel. So that's being present now. Present. Present. And then, okay, so now you find out how you feel. When you're witnessing, then you work with, is my mind substantiating this person I'm listening to? If so, maybe I have to be careful. Because I might abandon this person who's telling me about this situation. I have to remember, they are not what I think they are. But I do think they are this way.

[62:50]

Okay. So then help them look at how they feel and then help them also not believe and take up substantial the way they feel. In this way it gets transmitted from you to them to the people they're helping. In this way the compassion which might start with, first of all, noticing a suffering being and being sentimental, but then noticing it and teaching that sentimental compassion to its view, its loving view, not get stuck in the loving view. I question it. And let the great compassion come. By being part of it. by witnessing the suffering, by being aware of this sentimental view of it, and that really also there's a more thorough understanding of what's going on than our view, and work on that in yourself, and tell the other person how to work on it in herself or his self, and then go and address this terrible situation.

[64:03]

which then can get the same teaching round and round. Okay. Thank you. By the way, I just want to mention that Pam, when I was talking to Pam, she said she wanted to flesh this out some more. And I thought, yeah, you want to flesh this out completely. You want this teaching to be totally your. So we do want to flesh it out. We want it to become our whole body. So let's do that, shall we? Next. Leslie. I'm curious about in number 31, where it says, right after, is the seed of superior enlightenment, brings happiness to oneself.

[65:14]

And I'm a little, I don't know if that or quite what that means there. And I'm wondering if you could explain. One of the things that I really love about this text is is this teaching which, this is the first kind of like, almost like warning of this teaching that's coming, which is the greatest joy is suffering, which comes because you love. That happiness is much greater than any other happiness. So it's not that you're happy, It's that you're suffering because they're suffering and you love them. That's your happiness. You're happy that you can be in this world of suffering with these beings because you love them. That's why you're here.

[66:18]

And you love them. And that's happiness. So practicing happiness in the world of suffering brings happiness to the... Practicing compassion for beings in this world is happiness. The happiness, it delivers others. Yes, one more. Okay. If one is not practicing compassion towards themselves, is it impossible to practice compassion with others? You can not practice compassion towards yourself and practice what I call sentimental compassion towards others. So only if you're practicing compassion to all beings of which you are in that otherwise it's sentimental compassion.

[67:25]

Yeah. And some people do have compassion for others and not themselves. And that's because they have a substantial idea of self and other, so they leave themselves out. Of course, some others stay around, but it's quite common for people to have compassion towards others and not towards themselves. And they do that because... of having an idea of the self of the other. If you don't have an idea of self, you wouldn't have it for one and not the other. I think that's drawing attention to one of the drawbacks of sentimental compassion. It's that you would have it for others, but not yourself. And therefore, if you don't have it for yourself, it hobbles or disenfranchises your compassion towards others. That makes sense. Thank you. You're welcome.

[68:26]

Thank you. King. I was reminded in regard to the pitfalls of the first kind of compassion. When people take courses as emergency medical personnel, whether they're a fireman Ambulance drivers, first responders, there's a first principle that you're taught right away, and that is don't become part of the problem. And that's what that covers. If you become part of the problem with your desire to help, then you're not being helpful, and then you yourself probably need some help.

[69:30]

That's all. May I just add that if you don't take care of yourself, you'll become part of the problem. Exactly. Thank you. Hello. Hi. At the beginning of the class and throughout the class, you said that we would meditate on compassion, meditations on compassion. And, of course, the verses are meditations on compassion, and they give us information about it. But I mean, to meditate on compassion, like the three kinds of compassion.

[70:40]

The first one we all do somewhat naturally. But like the other two are, you know, we might move in and out of them in a day. But how would we meditate compassion? that would, like an actual sitting practice meditation, how would that look to try to develop our experience of the second and third flavors? Does that make sense? A basic definition of meditation is a topic of contemplation. A secondary meditation is the contemplation of the meditation.

[71:43]

So each of these verses is a meditation, and we can meditate on them by contemplating them. So you can, like, at the beginning, we sit for a little while, you could choose one of these meditations and contemplate it while we're sitting. Or if you're sitting some other time, quietly, you could turn your attention or bring up for consideration one of these verses and just sit there and look at it, you know, literally. or memorize it and look at it in your mind. Or you can consider, have I today practiced sentimental compassion? You can look at that question in silence and stillness. For example, you can say, did I today...

[72:44]

yesterday but maybe today did i look at people and remember that they aren't what i think they are or did i actually fall for what i think they are as them a few times and most of us could probably today when we thought somebody was such and such and we actually acted like we believed it So if you look at, study the first type of compassion, and part of it might be, at the end of the day, actually, is a good time to see, have I practiced sentimentally today? Did I sort of believe that what I thought of people, like I thought somebody was not smart, or I thought somebody was wrong, did I actually believe that that's who they were? And if so, wow, I did. And then you can also say, I'm sorry. I confess I did practice sentimental compassion, and I'm sorry.

[73:47]

That's a contemplation of your day in light of one of these types. You could also say, did I today practice the second type of compassion? You might say, actually, I did. I actually remember the second type, and I practiced it, and I'm glad I did. So you can both contemplate the teachings of them and you can also contemplate your daily life to see how they're functioning in your life. And you can do that around and you can also do it sitting still and quiet. Okay. Very nice. Thank you for the teaching. Thank you for the questions. By the way, John had his hand up and disappeared. Did you change your mind, John? Yes, my question was answered by Gene.

[74:55]

No, no, not Warren, John. John Sheehy. This is John speaking. Oh, it's John speaking. Yes, sorry. Okay, so your question got answered by what? In your exchange with Jean. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah. I'd like to, I'd like to share my practice that just happened in this, in, in the beginning of the class today. And I like to share what I noticed and, And I would also like to, your comments help me to see what is the, I have more clear seeing of what is the first type and the second type of compassion, but I'm not quite getting whether there was any third type of compassion there.

[75:58]

Or if not, do I access that or how, how that can come to my practice? So in the beginning of the class today, I thought someone's name was not called during the greeting. And toward the end, when you say, okay, I think that's everybody. And then I felt like I had to, I feel called to say something about it. And so I sent a group, sent in a message saying, well, I think somebody was not cold. And I was able to see that, like, I was feeling suffering, like as if it was me not getting cold. And then I was also realizing my projection, that person may have felt this way or that way, and it's my projection.

[76:59]

person's actual feeling and but at the same time i'm still noticing all my body is feeling the feelings even though i have this awareness that it's not real quote quote and So I, I said, I said, well, and I also hear another voice already start talking. I want to focus on what he has to say. And then I noticed another being there that wants to, to focus, not be worried about this other thing. And then, so I said, okay, let me just put the chat out there. And then I then also texted, uh, Because I thought I thought that was you. And it turned out that that says Rep. Anderson Edmund. So that's. And then then I texted her and then. And I was noticing these things going on and I was trying to to. to be compassionate.

[78:01]

And I also noticed some things going on there, which was like that act of speaking up for me. It feels like I am really trusting this group. And I almost feel like everybody wants to know this person's not being cold and she's part of us and she's part of me. And we are all part of each other. And then I feel like, oh, well, I have to do this. And then, so then after all that, I tried to settle. I thought I did what I could do. And then now I should just let whatever can happen. Everybody is there to help all this process. And then I started to listen. And then later on, this person private messaged me and said, oh, Rev actually already addressed me by my Dharma name. And that was such a teaching. That's like, oh, and I read, like, Is this name representing her or the Dharma name representing her?

[79:06]

And just similar to why I thought I was texting you, Rep, and then, oh, this is another person. And that we are not really like talking or we're not really seeing each other, but we are also really seeing each other. I would love to hear your comments about this, and especially how to recognize if there was any third type of compassion. If not, where can it come to my practice? How can it come to my practice? Well, in what you said, I think you gave some examples of the first type. And there were some examples of the second type. And the first type and the second type kind of like came up and went away. Came up and went away. So those two types, one was happening, then the other was happening, and so on.

[80:08]

The third type doesn't come or go. The first two types come and go. third type the third type is here at the beginning of the class all the way through the class and before the class and after the class the third type is the way we are all together and we're not separate and how and the way we are together in a compact where we're not even objects of each other like you said she's part of me and she's part of us that That is, and not even thinking that, but just being that, that's the third type of compassion. And practicing the first two lead us to realize the third, which is there before the first two even started to practice, all the way through.

[81:10]

We're always together with all beings. That's Buddha. That's Buddha. And that is what liberates us. But we have to work with these other forms of compassion to let the third type kind of flesh us out, completely become our body. That's what we're doing. So hearing what you just said, we thought, when I was asking you, how do I bring this to my practice? But now I want to say, well, it's not my practice. It's like the Buddha meeting with another Buddha. That's where that is happening. Yeah. And there's more like allowing it. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, it's 8.45.

[82:12]

Thank you again. And I also wanted to suggest to you that next time to start with 34 and 35, and then I would like to skip over the section on comparing compassion to a tree. It's a lovely section, but I would like to do it later, not In order. So what I'd like to do is to 34 and 35 and then go to 41, 42 and so on. So if you're studying the text, please look at 34 and 35 and then maybe the five verses on the tree to go to 41 and 42 for next time. And we get into another dimension of this study.

[83:15]

Thank you very much, everybody. I hope you're doing well in the continuing to be very dangerous times. Buddha bless us all. And let us all bless Buddha with the true merit of our way so that all beings together may attain the Buddha way numberless. We vow to save them. Afflictions are inexhaustible. We vow to liberate them. Dharma gates are boundless. We vow to open them and enter them. Put away is unsurpassable. We vow to become it. Thank you very much. Good night. Thank you. Good night, Reb. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, everyone. Good night, everyone.

[84:18]

Good night, everyone. Thank you, Rob. Thank you. Good night, everybody. Thank you so much.

[84:26]

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