The ways that are described in the scripture, the unwise ways of seeing are the ways that most people see things. Namely, in terms of gain and loss, in terms of what's going to happen to me, how things are going to work out for me in the future. This kind of orientation is quite familiar, perhaps to you yourself, but also you know other people think that way. So this viewing, seeing things in terms of gain and loss is so common that so many people in the class just couldn't understand how it would be possible at all to not see things that way. I think I talked to you about how sometimes the ancestors in the in the Zen tradition or Buddhist tradition have sometimes been described as people who dare to be open and intimate with whoever they meet, in short, with all living beings.

[01:13]

They dare to be open and intimate. They dare to be open to the birth and death of beings. When beings are being born, you know, something is developing with them, they're able to be with them in that birth process and they're being able to be with them as they die. they dare to do that, and then one text where these ancestors are described is able to do that, then the question was, how are they able to do this? And the answer is, because they've ended these outflows around gain and loss. They've ended these hates around being concerned about gain and loss. But another way to approach this might be turn it around and say, If you can be intimate with and open to what other people are doing, what other people are going through, if you can be open to that and dare to be open to that, then that also would end outflows.

[02:24]

So ending outflows, you dare to be with beings and being with beings, it ends outflows. So another way to put it again is if you can end outflows, or I should say outflows end, that leads to being able to realize and to tolerate intimacy with other beings. Ending outflows leads to being able to realize and tolerate intimacy with our true nature. your own true nature. And your own true nature is that you're not separate from other beings. Or put it the other way again, so being able to tolerate intimacy also means being able to tolerate vulnerability.

[03:29]

We're already vulnerable. We're already vulnerable to other people and other people are vulnerable to us. People can hurt us. We can hurt other people. It's already the situation. But we barely can stand it. We can't stand it. Learning how to open to our vulnerability to each other is similar to kind of the same thing as opening to a wise way of being with people. In other words, being with other people to be with other people for goodness sake, not being with other people for what we're going to get. And being with other people in the best possible way Like Darice was saying last week, she's going to try to get the best school for her kids and get the best food for her kids.

[04:36]

Why would you not get the best school for your kid? Of course you get the best school, the best school you can get. Get the best food, best clothing, best housing, best education, best friends. Get the best thing for your kids. Get the best thing for everybody. Yeah. And do that without thinking of it as a game, which, again, is similar to another way to put it is that usually we see things in terms of gain and loss, and that's kind of the same as usually we see our activity as individual activity. Usually we see the activity of our body and mind as our individual, isolated, independent activity.

[05:41]

Right? That is That's kind of the same way of seeing our activity as gain and loss. It's kind of like this is my activity, this isn't my activity. That's seeing my activity in terms of affirmation and denial. This is my activity. That's your activity. That's not my activity. So seeing myself as independent individual actor is similar to seeing myself in terms of gain and loss. But again, that's not a wise way to see yourself. If you do see yourself, then it's wise to be honest and tell the truth that that's the way you see it. In other words, I tell the truth. I see myself unwisely.

[06:43]

I see myself as acting by myself. I admit that. But I understand that when I see myself that way, I'm not seeing myself wisely. I'm seeing myself unwisely. I understand from what I've heard, and it makes sense to me, that Buddha does not see herself that way. She does not see herself acting individually. Buddha sees herself wisely, so her activities is the same as your activity. But she sees her activity not as individual, but as activity in the company of all living beings. The Buddha acts in the company of all living beings, and all living beings are acting in the company of all the Buddhas. That's the way the Buddhists see it. And seeing it that way ends fundamental defilements.

[07:46]

which go with seeing ourself in terms of gain and loss, seeing our activity in terms of gain and loss, seeing other people's activity in terms of gain and loss, seeing other people's activity as individuals, seeing ourself as individual, other people's activity as individual activity, and seeing our own activity as individual activity. The other way is seeing our activity as supported by and accompanied by and never not accompanied by and never not supported by all sentient beings. Now, seeing our activity as Buddha's activity, and Buddha's activity is Buddha, and Buddha's activity is handing out all outflows. Last Friday I was, you know, last Sunday, on Sunday I was in England, I was in Somerset,

[08:48]

an area called Glastonbury. It's a King Arthur country. Sir Lancelot, Guinevere country. Anyway, very nice, very beautiful part of England. And I did a Bodhisattva precept initiation there, giving the Bodhisattva precepts. And I kind of glanced at the prospect of the ceremony, and I noticed some some sense of that might be hard to get that together. I was in the middle of a retreat, a meditation retreat, and this additional activity was kind of like promised. People came to receive the precepts, so work had to be done. And I noticed that the way I was looking at it, like in terms of the future and how am I going to do it, what will become of me,

[09:51]

What shall I be? And I didn't just say, hey, so-ra, so-ra. I thought, oh, I'll just look at, I'll change my point of view on this thing and just sort of like tune in to how I am buoyed up and carried forth on the activity of all beings. I'm just going to watch how everybody that I can see, anyway, everybody I can't see, lifting me up and making it possible for me to do my part, playing my role in this event. And then I... I was relieved. I wasn't burdened by the prospect of the ceremony which I'm supposed to play this role in. A leadership role. But The other people who didn't have leadership roles, people who were watching or people who were going to be the initiates, I don't know what they were thinking, but I think, but I know from what I've heard and from what I can do in my head, is that they were thinking that they had to do something in the ceremony too.

[11:16]

They had to learn the ceremony. They had to then, or they had to try to learn the ceremony and then based on this somewhat incomplete knowledge of the ceremony, they would then perform it in front of the whole group. Probably some of the people thought, how will I be able to do that? They felt burdened, perhaps, that they didn't. So actually, the leader may think that she has more responsibility than the other people, but the other people maybe looking at it in such a way that it's an awesome responsibility to them because they think they have to get their own body through that ceremony. They don't think they have to lead the ceremony. They just think they have to follow it properly, which, if you think of anything from that point of view, it can be quite burdensome. In fact, viewing any activity as individual activity, how would I put it?

[12:30]

Viewing our practice or activity as individual and then hearing about the practice which ends out those, That practice might sound really difficult or impossible or daunting, which I already mentioned. But actually, hearing about the practice of the Buddhas from the point of view of the individual isolated actor, that practice would be kind of victory. or antithetical to that point of view. The practice of the Buddha is not, it wouldn't be just difficult or virtually impossible, just simply contradictory. So ending outflows, acting free of thoughts of gain and loss, acting free of thoughts of affirmation and denial, acting with the understanding that everything you do, including blinking your eyes, salivating,

[13:37]

Every activity of you is done together with all being. If you don't see it from that point of view, then every activity can be, not all, can be quite difficult, especially if you think of all the times you're going to have to salivate in the next few years. You just think, oh my God, how will I be able to salivate that many times? Somebody told you how many times to blink your eyes in the next two weeks. Oh, my God. Or sometimes when people are meditating, they start, they're salivating while they're meditating, just the usual salivation, but then they start noticing it, and then they notice this huge quantity of saliva going down their throat, and they start going, and they think everybody in the Zen is listening to them. They try to stop it, and they become terrified of their salvation process.

[14:41]

And they need major therapy to say, it's OK. You can swallow. You can even make noise while you swallow. It's OK. People can handle it. It doesn't sound so loud outside your head. But actually, everybody's supporting you to sit there and swallow, even if you make a little noise, and cry. and be in pain or be in pleasure, you don't have to do it all by yourself. You don't have to. In fact, you don't. And you don't even have to change your perspective from this unwise way of seeing your activity to the wise way. You don't have to. It's just that if you don't, you don't. And if you don't, you're miserable and you're more or less a troublemaker because you're not only acting unwisely, but you're not setting a good example. And you're making other people feel like they'd be fools if they tried to see wisely.

[15:50]

Like some people, you know, I think Leslie was saying, you know, you're so silly, you know, not trying to get a piece of pizza for yourself. You see that? It's like you get the biggest piece of something at dinner, Your worry is all going to be gone. You don't care if you get a big piece, you just want one piece. Is that it? Yeah. She's worried if she doesn't go. Right. So that's a perfect example of concern about loss, right? Concern if you're not indicating a loss, it won't get in there. But actually... Some people say, and I'm kind of on that team, I'd like to be on that team of people who say, from knowledge, that your food allotment is already set for this lifetime. The amount of food you're going to get is already available, and it's not because you arranged for it.

[16:57]

And we know little kids don't get fed because they kind of like trying to get fed. Even if they aren't interested in getting fed, people bring food to them and say, open up, here comes the airplane. Please eat. We want you to eat. We want you to be fat. Eat. It's not because they're trying to get the food. They may try to get the food. Sometimes they do try. But that's not why they get it, right? Because sometimes they try to get food and people stop them because they want to eat something different from what other people want them to eat. It's not by your own power that you wind up with what you wind up with. And people overeat and eat things that they shouldn't eat. It's not by their own power that they eat in a disordered way. They're not in control, and that's what we call, they're not in control of overeating. They're not in control of vomiting afterward. As far as I know, all the people who have eating disorders look at it as though they're doing that all by themselves.

[18:06]

They're feeling all by themselves with food and therefore they have eating problems. Now some people don't have too much eating problems and they see it that way too. But I would say that even those people, in a sense, have eating problems. Even I have eating problems. I eat a nice amount, not too much healthy food. If I think of it in terms of I did it all by myself, then, although I'm eating fairly well, I'm eating and seeing my eating unwisely. And I'm planting seeds of bondage to suffering. So I guess I'm actually suggesting to you another approach is a meditation on Buddha's conduct as opposed to individual behavior.

[19:12]

I'm an active being. You're an active being. All day long, we have an activity. We don't ever stop having an activity all day long. You could say, well, if we die, then we stop having activity. Maybe then. Otherwise, we're very active beings, one way or another. So we do have activity. The question is, do I see my activity as individual behavior, or do I see my activity as Buddha's conduct, as Buddha's life of activity in concert with all beings? Do I direct my mind to see it that way? That's, I would say, learning to see it that way and seeing it that way and understanding it that way is a wise way to understand our behavior. And in either case we're responsible.

[20:18]

One case we're responsible in an isolated, individual way. The other case we're responsible in this concerted, way, where we're acting together rather than acting independent. Both cases we're responsible. But in the case where we're acting together, we're more responsible, because we're also responsible. People we're acting together with, and they're responsible for us. And we know it. And because we're so happy We're patient about them not getting it yet. They're responsible for our behavior. And I just want to say a little bit about another major step

[21:30]

and then stop before I get into that, and in order to actually realize the practice, which includes the understanding that the practice is done together with all the Buddhas and in the company and together with all sentient beings, in order to actually manifest that practice, we need formality. I think I'll talk about that next week. I want to tell you about that. In the meantime, just to have the idea of having your activity together with my activity and all of our activities together are Buddha's activities, that's the first possible way to start just thinking about that.

[22:34]

And then if you meditate on that and you can kind of try that on, then I would say then the next step is, which doesn't mean stop doing that, the next step in making it realized is through formality. Before we take that step, do you have any questions about this latest step? Yeah. Well, let me help you. Yes. I don't quite know how to What are you trying to break through in this example?

[24:06]

You're feeling vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. So those are ways people are, which you feel vulnerable to? Yeah. You feel attacked by that, by the way people are sometimes? Yeah. All right. Well, I think I kind of get it that you feel attacked by people sometimes. Or you feel blocked by people. Or both.

[25:08]

Or all three. In other words, people can hurt you and frustrate you. And frustration is uncomfortable. It has to do with what? Yeah, when we get attacked or when we feel frustrated by people, then we often then try to protect ourselves. Makes sense. Why not protect yourself? Nothing wrong with protecting yourself, especially, you know, yeah, if somebody's attacking you, that's good to protect yourself. I would say generally, why not? It never what? Well, maybe you say it never has gone smoothly.

[26:16]

You're changing from never to often? Yeah. Okay, fine. I mean, sometimes it does go smoothly. Well, once in a while. Yeah. So once in a while, once in a while, if somebody attacks you or frustrates you and you defend yourself, and it goes kind of okay sometimes to defend yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that won't help to hold on. Holding on is kind of like unrealistic in terms of reality because things are changing. Like here you are and somebody attacks you. You can't hold on to the state of not being attacked because they're attacking you. Yeah. So we do experience being attacked, or we do experience being disrespected, or we do experience being frustrated, and we are vulnerable to such things, we human beings.

[27:28]

I'm proposing this is a natural situation that you're vulnerable to feeling pain and discomfort or injury in relationship to humans, animals, and trees. And then when we actually not just experience the vulnerability, but when we actually encounter the actual pain or injury, then it is sort of reasonable to take care of ourselves in a way that might be called protection. Or not protection, medicine. what it wouldn't do to get injury repair, some kind of therapeutic attention to our injury which we've incurred in a relationship. And if I do not open to my vulnerability, then when

[28:38]

I'm attacked and they think this is very strange because I wasn't vulnerable and suddenly I'm hurt. So when an invulnerable person feels hurt, it's hard for them to take good care of themselves because it's a shock. Where did that come from rather than, well, yeah, this is right. I've heard about this. I've heard that I'm vulnerable, and now the vulnerability has been demonstrated. I'm being hurt. I'm being injured. I'm being frustrated. I'm being uncomfortable. So rising above it, rising above it, rising above it, So I'm suggesting one way to rise above it is to be ready for it in the first place.

[29:47]

So I always think that, have I quoted Hamlet during this class yet? So that thing is part of to be or not to be. That is the question. Whether it is nobler in the minds or hearts of men, in the minds of men, to endure or to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to oppose them pardon to plead not to plead upon others we know not of to and to oppose them and to end them and these outrageous slings and arrows these slings and arrows outrageous fortune and by opposing in them. So that was his question, whether he should suffer them or oppose them. That's where he was in the early part of the book, in the early part of the play.

[30:51]

At the end, after he had experimented with this opposing them or suffering them in a very interesting way, at the end he said, I kind of feel like in the end he said, readiness is all. I think that was his realization. However, the karma that he had set in motion by suffering and opposing led him to die shortly after that realization. Opening to vulnerability and opening to your interconnectedness with other beings, opening to your concerted activity, opening to conduct rather than individual action Opening to that is like being ready for these attacks. So when they come, it's not like, oh, you're in a martial arts situation. You're signing up for life in which basically circumstances, not necessarily intending to pick on you, do pick on you.

[32:02]

Some big person walks by. He's not impending. He didn't come to work to step on Dory's toes. But he did. He's walking down the hall, and Dory's toes were under his feet, and he stepped on Squish. Like, my wife, generally speaking, does not walk in front of me or her daughter. Because she finds her feet get under our feet. I don't know how it happens, but somehow, if she walks behind us, her feet almost never get under our feet. But if she walks in front of us, somehow we wind up with her feet under us. We feel like she brings her feet under our feet. We're trying to avoid stepping on her feet, and she gets them under there. I don't know how she does it, but we're like terribly trying to stay away from her. She comes running at us and stucks her feet under and we step on her. She said, there you did it again. You guys are always stepping. So she feels like we're attacking her and we feel like she's doing this strange reverse attack on us of making us into attackers in a very skillful way.

[33:09]

It's amazing. Yeah, right. It's on tape. I'm in trouble. Anything else? But in that story I told about my wife, you know, if I don't see it as me independently walking and then she says I'm stepping on her feet, it isn't that I blame, I think we're doing it together, therefore, you know, it's her fault. But I can still feel responsible and try to learn how to walk without stepping on her. But I do feel she's responsible too. She goes on walks with me.

[34:15]

She knows this might happen. And that doesn't alleviate my responsibility, but it also doesn't make me feel, when she then steps on me by calling me a brute, stepping on her feet, that that attack is not something she's doing by herself, and my interpretation of it is not something I'm doing all by myself. So as a result, I feel it creates a more wise way of seeing what's happening, where there's no blame of me or you, but there's responsibility in me and maybe in you. If you're looking at the same way, you'll feel responsible. And if I look at it that way, I'll feel responsible. And I won't be blaming anybody. Everybody will be sharing. We're doing it together. And in that way of seeing, then this daunting, when you see things, this daunting or impossible way of seeing things free of gain and loss is not so difficult.

[35:30]

Because when she or somebody accuses me of cruelly or mindlessly stepping on their feet when I don't feel like I was trying to step on their feet, When I don't see it that way, I don't feel falsely accused or rightly accused. I feel like I'm doing the thing of accusing me. I'm participating in it. I'm working with the person who's accusing me. I'm on the same team with the person who's accusing me and insulting me. We're together. This is different from the usual unwise way I see things.

[36:36]

This is a wise way of seeing things and when I see things this way, I'm ready to be insulted and I'm ready to be praised. And when I'm praised from this position, again, I don't take that individual responsibility. I'm responsible, but it's not, you know, it's not like when I'm praised, it's all my, it's all, you know, when I'm praised, it's all my doing. When I'm insulted, I share the responsibility. No. In both cases, it's not all my doing, and I'm responsible. And then whether praise or blame doesn't make much difference. Little bit, not much though, but yeah. But to try to avoid a gain and loss when you're seeing things from this individual action point of view, well, it doesn't make sense for you to avoid it.

[37:38]

You would see things gain and loss. But even while you can still see things in terms of gain and loss, if you switch to this other mode, gain and loss loses its punch. Same like watching a baseball game together with both teams. And it's not an insult when one wins and the other loses. The gain and loss thing is not the point. The point is enjoying the activity together. I was thinking of the ballet classes, people downstairs doing ballet. They can think of the class in terms of gain and loss. They could do that. Through the whole class they could be doing that. But they could also be there and they could lift their legs without a sense of gain and loss. They could be lifting their legs as how they're having a body and having music and being in a class, all that come together.

[38:43]

And the body moves in these ways, which they're totally responsible for. Their responsibility is the movement. But not in gain and loss. And really enjoy the class. And have the best class you can have. How's it going? Adjusting? Yes? Is it unwise to concentrate on gain if you want to manifest something in your life? Can I go back to your original question before you gave the example?

[39:51]

Did you say, is it unwise if you want to accomplish something to think in terms of gain and loss? Is that your original question? . okay but i still like your original question it's like even though you don't like it anymore i still like it because you said you said i think originally uh if you if you want to accomplish something get something is it good to look at it during the game lost and what i thought when you said that was if or would it be wise, anyway, if you want to be unhappy, then it is not exactly wise to be unhappy.

[40:53]

But anyway, aside from wise, if you wish to be unhappy, then thinking of your activity in terms of gain and loss is appropriate. It's appropriate because if you think of whatever, like if you try to get a job, if you want a job, and you approach that job in terms of gain and loss, then that approaching in terms of gain and loss would be appropriate if you wanted to be unhappy in the process of working to get the job. And also, if you continued that, then you could continue to be unhappy after you got the job. But in terms of manifesting getting the job, the seeing it in terms of gain and loss If you did see it in terms of gain and loss or you didn't, those two different ways of seeing would not necessarily, from my understanding, would not necessarily manifest as getting a job one more than the other. Let's say you wanted a job. Let's say I had some jobs available to give to people and you came to get a job from me.

[41:58]

and you were looking at getting the job from me, and you actually knew the jobs, one of the jobs I had available to give, you knew, you thought you would like. So you're coming to me and you're asking me for one of those jobs, maybe. You say, could I have that job there? And your perspective as you come to see me is in terms of gain and loss. And then I'm just saying, you do. And I'm saying, well, Barbara, I do have this job, and I'd be happy to give it to you. But since you're coming with a gaining idea, I'm not going to give it to you. Because I do have this, I'd like to give these jobs away, but I actually also want to train you in a sense. I'm not going to give you the job. I'm done not rent food. Yay. Rent is not gain. Food is not gain. Same thing if I have food for you or if I have money for you. If you want to get this and you come to get it with a gaining idea about the food or the rent, I might feel like I don't want to give this to you.

[43:10]

But if I didn't see it that way... I just see, okay, here I am practicing together with you who's coming to me, and either I can guess or see from experience, or you tell me, I not only want this job, but I have a gaining attitude towards it. I still might say, fine, here's the job. But it isn't that I did that by my own power. I just felt by various causes and conditions that it would be appropriate for you to have this job. So I say, okay, you can have the job. I did that part. I didn't feel like me saying, oh, you can have the job. Like, I'm the guy who has the job, and I'm in the position of giving them away, but I don't see my activity that way. In other words, I don't see it as a gain or a loss when I give you one of these jobs I have, or I give you this food. I don't see it that way. As the Buddha, I don't see it that way. You come, you ask for food, and I say, yeah, here. Or you come and you ask for food, and I say, no. And you say, how come?

[44:11]

And I say, I don't know. I just said no. And you might say, well, can I just take the food? I don't know. If you can take it, probably wouldn't be a good idea to take it. If you didn't feel like it was given to you, do you feel like it was given to you? And I say, yeah. You say, OK. You might say to me, do you feel like you're giving to me? And I say, no. So on, you know. That conversation, that could happen. Sometimes you come to get a job, and again, some people, if you came to get a job as a... a buddhist teacher and you're trying to gain something by getting the job rather than coming to get the job because you just thought it was appropriate for you to be a buddhist teacher and it'll be helpful to people but you didn't think it would be a game and then somebody would say you can't have it is it fine i thought it would be good but didn't work out that way but the person i also say you know this job is actually only for the people that come who are not into gaining loss

[45:24]

So in that case, having a gaining idea in approaching this particular activity, that would mean that you wouldn't get that. In other cases, though, having a gaining activity, if you were trying to get something without a gaining idea, you might get it. And if you had a gaining idea, you might get it. The causes and conditions for what you get are not such that you never get anything just because you have the idea of gain. Because in fact, you do get supported all day long, every day, even if you do have that idea. So you do get jobs. Some people get jobs with building the idea, the gaining idea, they get jobs. Fearing loss, they get jobs. Other people who are free of the idea of gaining and loss, they also get jobs. So having these ideas doesn't stop you from having a function in the world. The world doesn't punish you for looking at it unwisely. It's just that if you look at it unwisely, you suffer whether you get the job or not.

[46:33]

If you do get the job, you suffer, and if you don't get the job, you suffer, if you have a gaining approach. But whether with a gaining approach you're more likely to get a job than if you don't have a gaining approach, depends on the job. If it's to be, you know, I don't know what, a prison guard or a murderer, then having gaining, being concerned with gain and loss would be great. The person might say, I want people who are concerned with gain and loss to be on my murder squad. They're the best kind of people to have on here. But if you want people who are doing some peace work, You might disqualify people who are just a little bit too wrought up and too much concerned with gaining something out of doing piecework. You might say, I'm sorry, I've got these piecework jobs, but almost no one qualifies. Everybody who applies, I have to send them back and say, you have to go someplace else and get some training before you can do this work because you're just spreading self-mate.

[47:37]

You're spreading affliction by your approach to this particular job of spreading peace. So, you know, I've got this project and I'd like some people to join in on it. It's not a great opportunity, but most of the people who come are not ready to do this job. And I have to tell them, I guess, that my feeling for developing peace is to tell you you're not ready to develop peace. You're causing a fighting mind in your own body and mind by your attitudes. But again, some other job, a lot of other jobs where people are into game, if you come with game, they might hire you. More likely than someone came without that game. Because this person is not going to, they're not going to be on this program where we're trying to get stuff for ourselves and not work with other people. They would like maybe tell our competitors. They'd share our secret information with our competitors because they're not, you know, they're not in turn, they're not in us, our group gaming.

[48:45]

So I'm not going to hire them. So whether you get a job or not or get fed by certain people or not with a gaming idea, I can't say. Again, little babies, if they approach their mother, With a gaining idea, or not with a gaining idea, in either case they might get fed. The mother would not necessarily say, got a gaining idea, I'm not going to feed you. Most mothers don't do that. But again, a lot of kids approach their mother not trying to get food, and the mother gives them food. So a lot of situations, your attitude doesn't really seem to be pivotal in what you get. Except it is pivotal in terms of your happiness and unhappiness. and also your kindness or cruelty. So this person who's got a gaining idea is more likely to be shocked and cruel in whatever they do, in whatever they get. This other person who doesn't have the gaining idea is less likely to be shocked and cruel whatever they get.

[49:53]

But the gaining idea people are thinking that gaining idea will I shouldn't say they do think that. It's just that they only know that when they try to give something they almost always have a gaining idea, so they think that the gaining idea may have something to do with giving it, but not necessarily. I think that's sort of how I feel, but I don't know if you disagree or have some... Yes. Jeff, is it? Usually it's correct. Jeff's usually correct in this room. One-fourth of the men are Jeff's. Yes? I wonder if it's the same thing. The question, how do you... How does that match the same to you?

[51:01]

It's a park. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought it was. I was trying to figure out what to do. But I realized that one of the ways that I can, whether or not I'm trying to be somewhere, what I got to think is about it. If I imagine what I'm going to do, I can figure it out, figure it out, whatever it is. Yeah, and if you imagine not getting it, and it doesn't bother you too much, then maybe there's not so much of a gaining idea.

[52:12]

But then that's where the formality part comes in, because then you should go tell your teacher that you would want in this thing, but you have no gaining idea around it, and you imagine not getting it, and you felt like that was fine, so you feel like you don't have a gaining idea. Because you tested it. So now what are you testing, teacher? So you don't just do your own testing program. You have what are called independent testing agents. But you can test it. So again, there's two forms of testing. One's intra-psychic. One's intra-personal. You need to do both. Because you can test yourself in certain ways in your own body and mind that nobody else can do. And if you find out, OK, I wanted it, and when I contemplate not giving it, I get really upset. So probably there is this gaining idea in there. I probably don't feel like it. I want it, and I think of not getting it.

[53:16]

So I want it, and I want it together with all beings. I want it. I want to move into that apartment in the company of all beings. And if all beings want to move into the apartment with me, I'm open to that. I know they all can't get in there, so we have to take turns. But anyway, I'm open to that. All the Buddhas are with me around getting this apartment. So I know when I'm with all the Buddhas and all sentient beings, gain and loss is really like, there's no room for that. Okay, so I think of not getting it. When I think of not getting it, I do that together with everybody too. So the apartment, having an apartment and not having an apartment is dwarfed by the company in both cases. But if you're not accompanied by all beings, then having an apartment or not having an apartment is a big deal. If I'm all by myself in this world and I don't have any company, then I'd better have an apartment at least and some furniture.

[54:24]

But if you're together with all beings, you don't have to worry about apartments and furnitures anymore. But still, you might feel like, I think I'd like an apartment. And I'd like a hockey puck, too. Or whatever, you know. You can want things. And then you can test it. But you should also test it with other people to help join in. That's part of the formality, is how to include other people in the testing process. I myself was in, again, I've been talking about this in Europe, right, and I was thinking now, during the retreat I was particularly, I thought, you know, that after the retreat was over I could wash my clothes. And I thought, actually, how nice it would be to wash my clothes. And I thought, now, can I think of, can I contemplate this laundry process without that being a game? And it was hard, you know, to It wasn't a big, super huge thing to wash my clothes, but it'd be nice to have these clothes, which are kind of dirty, be clean.

[55:34]

I like to clean clothes. I like to clean the house, too. I like to brush my teeth. You brush your teeth really nicely, see all of that grunge come off, without a sense of gain. I say, yeah, you can. You can also be into gain. And one of the differences is that if you get frustrated in getting them clean, you get upset. But if you get frustrated in getting them clean without gain, it's like, okay, time to do something else besides clean my teeth. And maybe to get them dirtier by eating something. Who knows? But the context of brushing your teeth in the concert of all beings you can still brush them. Because actually all beings do want you to brush your teeth. It's there for their benefit too. Nobody really wants you to have rotten teeth that I know of.

[56:37]

Even most dentists don't. Dental hygienists don't want you to not take care of your teeth. They want you to take care of them. And they want to work with people who are taking care of them rather than, oh, everybody should not take care of their teeth so we'll have job security. They do have job security. Even if you take care of your teeth, they still have plenty of work to do. So everybody really wants you to take care of your teeth. And if you do it with that spirit, then if everybody wants you to stop brushing your teeth, you can stop. And then later they're going to want you to start again, probably. But if you're doing it on your own, then when you start, if anybody interferes with you while you're brushing your teeth, You know, it could be dangerous for them. Because you might really feel disrespected, insulted, and attacked. We are vulnerable to other people.

[57:38]

They can come in there and take those toothbrushes away. Or criticize our toothbrushing technique. Tell us we're doing it too much. We're going to wear our guns out. Lots of things can happen while you're brushing your teeth. You don't have any idea you still want. Yep. Yep. And if you can, again, and if you open to your vulnerability, you can stand giving up the gaining idea more. But if you're feeling invulnerable, then if you thought about giving up the gaining idea, you'd think, well, that would make you vulnerable. Gaining an idea is part of our protection. We think, well, if I went to work without a gaining idea, I could be taken disadvantage of. Like they could say, okay, we decided not to pay anybody today.

[58:41]

So I went there with no gaining idea, and then when they decided not to pay me, I said, I might say, okay. Then they just make a fool of me, you know? My dad told me this story about when he was a little boy, he had some older brothers. And they said to him, here, you can have this big one with the Indian on it for those little ones with Thomas Jefferson on them. And you can also have one of these big copper-colored ones for those little silver ones. And I figured it would be three of those copper ones and those little silver ones. Now, my dad, when he heard about that, actually had a gaming idea, and so did his brothers. I felt sorry for him, though. But, you know, until recently, I didn't feel sorry for the brothers who tripped me.

[59:43]

to subtype him. But he and they, they both were into gaining ideas. He was into gaining ideas, but didn't have certain information. And they were into certain gaining ideas, so they got more money out of the deal. But if you're not into gaining ideas and people try to play tricks on you, how about them? They make a trick of you, right? Because you wouldn't be so defensive. Because you'd already You'd already know, not necessarily, wait a minute. First of all, have you decided to recognize your vulnerability before you start practicing giving up, gaining idea? It's a good idea to do that at the same time, not before. If you're already accepting your vulnerability and realizing that having gained idea is not going to make you invulnerable. Nothing can make you invulnerable. Nothing can make me invulnerable. I can just dream that I am. And dreaming that I'm invulnerable goes with dreaming about gain and loss. Dreaming about gain and avoiding certain kind of losses, or dreaming about certain losses and avoiding certain kinds of gains.

[60:52]

Some people don't want to gain weight, they want to lose weight. Some people want to gain money and don't want to lose money. That perspective goes with feeling invulnerable or wishing to feel invulnerable, but actually wishing to be invulnerable, not just feel invulnerable. Most people want to be invulnerable. They want to be invulnerable. They want to be a way that nobody is. People want to be invulnerable. And the looters of this country the administration says we are going to be invulnerable. And I remember what Rumsfeld said, now people, now, you know, just shortly after 9-11, so now people, when they go out the door, they open the door and they look, so they look around to see if they're safe.

[61:53]

And I thought, good. And he said, this is not America. America, you don't have to look around if you're safe. But that's really unwise. Is that good? I'm in America, so I don't have to pay attention to whether I should pick up this tape recorder or not, right? Because I'm in America. I don't have to worry about whether if I stand up this mic's going to rip off my shirt and Lee's going to make fun of me. I don't have to worry about that because I'm in America. I'm invulnerable. I don't have to pay attention when I walk down the stairs because I'm in America. I don't have to watch and see how to balance because I'm in America. Every step we take, even on level ground, not to mention stairs, You're vulnerable to injury.

[62:57]

You could fall down the stairs, twist your ankle, you could stub your toe, you could spill your coffee. We are vulnerable. And the unwise way is to think of how to be invulnerable rather than how to open to the vulnerability and be wise by opening to it. how to open to the fact that people can hurt us and we can hurt them. And then in recognizing that, open our wisdom eye. But this is a big change from unwise to wise. From I'm not vulnerable or I'd like to be not vulnerable. I'm a little bit vulnerable, but I'd like to be In other words, the unwise intention to be a way that nobody can be. Rather than just admit that we're all just garden variety vulnerable.

[64:03]

Are some people more vulnerable than others? I don't know. We're all pretty darn vulnerable. I can get hurt by the tiniest of things. Somebody just kind of like looking at me sideways can like Deeply touch me. Now, if I don't look at them, then they can't, right? Yes, they can. They can make a sound. Well, if I don't listen to them or look at them, they can't hurt me. No, but they can come up and touch me. If I wear armor, they can't. They can come up and fart at me. If I plug my nose, they can't. Well, I guess if you close off enough, that maybe people couldn't hurt you. And if you make a nice strong thing around you so they can't step on you, and so even a bridge falling on you won't hurt you, maybe, maybe you can be Superman.

[65:06]

Right? Maybe. It's a nice idea. I used to love reading Superman comic books. The Man of Steel. Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. This is the guy who protects the American way. Right? Rather than him and Donald Rumsfeld. Donald Rumsfeld's a tough guy. Was a really good wrestler. He wasn't a good wrestler. There was a guy he wrestled who was a much better wrestler than him. But the guy had a hard time beating him because Donald just really wanted to win. I said, it was amazing how hard he was beating. He wasn't a good wrestler, but he just wouldn't let me beat him. I finally did, but jeez. Makes it so hard. So are we going to be little wimpy people, little wimpy vulnerable people?

[66:14]

Well, yeah. That's Buddha. Buddha's vulnerable. Kind. Unafraid of being squished. You squish Buddha, Buddha's ready for it, and Buddha loves you while you're squishing him. And Buddha has something very helpful to say to you all the time. It could be. Could be there. Yeah, I think there is vulnerability even if you're not in the gain and loss. For example, the Buddha ate some like low-quality dinner one night, and we don't exactly know what was wrong with it, but when it went into him, he was vulnerable to getting sick from that, even though he wasn't in the gain and loss.

[67:18]

Now your example, somebody looking at you, if the Buddha looks at somebody and they're in pain, it hurts the Buddha. The Buddha feels pain. If you see somebody fall down and you see them cut themselves and blood come out, not everybody will be shocked by that, but some people will be. Just, you know, I saw that guy one time. I was driving in the highway one time, and I came around the corner and saw a bunch of people standing, you know, and they were like medical people and stuff. And I was trying to see what the problem was, and I saw the guy on the street who had fallen off his motorcycle. And I saw the blood, you know, and I just, it hurt. And I really felt good that it hurt, rather than I look at him, and now I see what the trucks are there for, and that's the reason. There's a guy who just had an accident, got cut up a little bit. It wasn't a big, horrible scene either. Just on the ground, on the ground, on the ground where we live, and blood.

[68:26]

And when you see that, sometimes, even some stranger who you don't know, you just feel, ah. You're not planning to feel that way, not supposed to feel that way. You just do. And you feel good. connection with somebody just for a flash there. Because we're connected. That's all, no big deal. And it hurts, but there's no gain and loss there necessarily. We are vulnerable. We're going to, you know, be all crunched up and gone pretty soon. And we're vulnerable for that to be hurt a little bit when we go through it. I think I told you a story about sitting with Kadagiri Roshi's wife looking at him dying, right? You want to tell you that story? No? Want to hear it? No? You don't want to hear it. You do want to hear it. Okay, so I'm sitting with Kadagiri Roshi.

[69:28]

I'm sitting at his deathbed. And next to me is his wife. This is like just a few hours before he died. And about a month before that, he and his wife and we all received a little boy into the world, which was their grandson. And I don't know how much he could enjoy that, but I think even a month before he died, he still could really be happy that he had a grandson, his first grandson. If his wife didn't help him, she could really be happy. And even though her husband was dying, she'd have to take care of this little baby. So she's sitting next to me, and she said, You know, when the grandson is born, we feel happy. When our husband dies, we feel pain. So in one case, you're gaining something. The other case, you're losing. But the person who's being born and the person who's dying, they're both having a really hard time.

[70:31]

It's difficult. When you're being born, you're vulnerable. you're vulnerable to all kinds of pain and injury. When you're dying, of course, you're vulnerable to pain and injury and death. You're also vulnerable to death when you're being born. The little guy and the old guy are both having a hard time. She saw that. But we look at it and say gain and loss. They're both vulnerable beings, and we're vulnerable to both of them. But in one case, our vulnerability allows us, because of the gain thing, to feel, and because of the loss thing, to feel. So it doesn't have to be there. And again, I'll just turn this around twice, okay? If we can see a person born, we can see a person dying, free of this getting involved in gain and loss. We can measure gain and loss, of course. But if you can look at a baby being born without there being a gain, you can look at a Zen teacher dying without there being a loss. To see them, then you see them wisely.

[71:36]

then you can be with them in their difficulty. Both of them are having that. You can be with the being born one. You can be with the dying one. You can be intimate with them. You can realize your true relationship. You can realize who you are, which is a person which is connected to both of these people. But the other way is if you can be with them and realize how intimate you are with them, and how you're living with them and with everybody else, then you won't see their coming and going as gain and loss. You won't see it that way. But in either case, you're vulnerable. But in one case, you're open to it. You're open. I'm vulnerable to this person. I'm living in the company of this baby being born. I'm living in the company of this man dying. I'm living in the company of these people. And when I really am tuned into my living in company with you, then I don't see my relationship with you in terms of gain and loss.

[72:42]

So there's two different ways of coming at the same condition called being wise. That's the basic condition. One case, you're free of gain and loss, free of affirmation and denial. That's one way to put it. The other way is you understand you're practicing together with everybody. And if you realize one, you can do the other. If you realize the other, then you can do the other, to go back and forth. And the Buddha, if you look at the other parts of the scripture, of the other things that the monks do, the other practices, you can see them both as something you might do and help you realize any of these outflows. But also you can see how if you saw how if you practiced that way, it would open you to your vulnerability. And if you're open to your vulnerability, you could practice that way. When you're aware of your vulnerability, you're not so gung-ho about getting a lot to eat.

[73:50]

So part of it is like eat enough to take care of yourself. But if you're trying to feel invulnerable, Then you get one of these groups, these survival cults, right? And you build these underground bunkers, fill them with all kinds of weapons and water purification systems and canned goods and fresh water because you're trying to make sure you're going to survive this chaos, right? And then the government tries to come and take your weapons away, and we have a problem. That's where it goes, this invulnerability. It goes to war. Vulnerability is just the way things are. And if we open to it, we will be peaceful. So rather than just trying to be peaceful, which is fine, check out to see whether you're feeling invulnerable and you'd like to have peace for this invulnerable person.

[75:00]

But if I think I'm invulnerable and I have peace, then don't mess with my peace, man. And don't do anything to hurt me, because then I might have to end the peace for a while. So next week I'd like to talk about the necessity of formality in order to facilitate the practice, biggest practice, or to put it another way, how we need to formally, we kind of need to formally create a manifestation of our of our practicing together in order to realize that we already are.

[76:05]

We need to sort of, like this class is an example of getting people together to realize that we're together, not just in the class, to develop forms of mutuality to realize that we're living in mutuality and to understand that without formal structures, it's hard to, just on our own, remember to think in these terms. Just to think, oh yeah, I'm doing this together with everybody. Yeah, that's good. But sometimes you forget, and then formal structures help you remember. Just like You kind of maybe knew something about what I said tonight, but maybe you didn't. But now you've heard this, so if you come to class again, you'd hear it again. Hearing it again tends to be a condition for remembering it.

[77:11]

So a lot of people come and talk to me, they say, after maybe kind of a long conversation, they say, I knew this already. Why do I always forget? That's what the interview is for. The interview is to remember because we do forget. Because we're impermanent beings. We're vulnerable to forgetting that we're vulnerable. So once we get it, oh yeah, right. Then we forget. Then we remember, how can I forget? Well, because we do. We forget. We slip back into unwise ways of understanding because they're very powerful. The scenes for unwise ways are well-established. That's why we need to repeat over and over certain teachings, keep studying together, which is a formal structure to support the realization that we are working together.

[78:26]

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