There are lots and lots of ways to meditate on great compassion. So we will also be meditating on great compassion in many ways during these seven weeks. That's what I think. And the thought arises in consciousness And when I say consciousness, I mean a consciousness where I am. I'm in a consciousness. There's a thought. And the thought is, great compassion is a big topic. Great compassion is an ocean of compassion. And so, an ocean of living beings.

[01:02]

And the ocean of compassion is almost the same thing as the ocean of living beings. So I'm proposing that there's an ocean of living beings, that there's a passion, and that there's an ocean of suffering. And these three oceans are one ocean. And compassion is being with all the living beings, all the living beings in the ocean of living beings. Compassion is with them all. And compassion is with all the suffering of all those. And

[02:07]

I want to meditate on that ocean of compassion, that ocean of living beings, and that ocean of suffering. And from one point of view, I feel like I could stand at the shore, at the shore, and look out at the ocean of all beings. That's okay. But I think I wish actually not to be at the shore, but to leave the shore and go out into the middle of the ocean. So I want to meditate on the center of all living beings. I want to meditate at the center. of all suffering, at the center of all compassion.

[03:17]

I want to remember that position, that seat at the center of the ocean of all suffering beings, the seat at the center of all compassion. And you could also say of all compassionate beings. And each compassionate being is sitting at the center of all beings and sitting at the center of all compassionate beings. I propose that as a meditation, okay? That's a meditation. which could be called a Zen meditation on compassion. And meditating on this ocean, I also might meditate on particulars, on particular beings in the ocean.

[04:50]

Like, for example, each of you. I might want to meditate on each of you who are suffering. I might want to meditate on each of your suffering. and each of your sufferings. And I might want to meditate on the sufferings that arise in the sphere of this body and this mind. So I want to meditate and remember my position in relationship to all beings and all suffering, and also I wish to attend to sufferings as they appear and disappear. This is another meditation, another Zen meditation.

[05:52]

And also I'm surrounded by all kinds of teachings about compassion. Each of us is sitting in the middle of all the Dharma teachings about compassion. I want to sit there and bring up some of these teachings in this group, in this assembly. And in this particular group, series, I have sent you a text. Did you get it? And that text is focusing on compassion. And before I say anything more about the text, I want to say that what I sent you is I think about 34 verses, 34 or 35 verses.

[07:08]

And they're part of one chapter of the text where this teaching on compassion comes from. The whole chapter has 64 verses in it. And we're starting at verse number 29, I think. Before that, there's other interesting things, but I'm focusing on the section of that chapter on compassion. And that chapter is chapter 17 among maybe, I'm not sure, maybe 30, let's see, just a second, I'll check. It's 17 of 17 of 21.

[08:19]

So we're looking at half of one of the chapters. And the book, the text, the scripture, it's not a sutra, that this comes from is called... Do you want to hear Sanskrit or English first? It's called in Sanskrit... Mahayana Sutra Alankara. And in English, it's sometimes translated as ornament of Mahayana scriptures. Another translation is Mahayana literature, Mahayana Sutra literature. So it's not actually a Mahayana Sutra. It's not actually a Bodhisattva Sutra. It is a celebration, a literary celebration of basically all the Mahayana Sutras.

[09:29]

So it's an adornment or an ornament or a literary offering in relationship to the Mahayana Sutras. Mahayana Sutra Alamkara. And it has a kind of spiritual, what do you call it, context. It was written down by a great bodhisattva in India in the 4th century. And that bodhisattva's name was Asanga. And Asangas tells us that this teaching that he wrote down and transmitted to us was handled by Maitreya. And it's not clear whether he means a person, a human, or if he means Maitreya Buddha.

[10:31]

So he received this teaching, this great teaching, and he wrote it down. He received it. He remembered it. He copied it. He practiced it, and he transmitted it to us. And I've never gone through this Mahayana with a group of people before. So I'm delighted to try to do this with you. And even though we're doing only one half of one of the 21 chapters, I still think that we might finish those 34 verses in seven meetings. But even if we do 10, and I think maybe 10 is realistic, that would be wonderful from my point of view. So there are at least three English translations of this whole phrase.

[11:53]

Ornament of Mahayana Sutras. And I will send you information on the three translations. I've given you the translation of half of one of the chapters. And I'll tell you about the other translations of the whole text if you want. But I don't want to start by giving you too much to chew on. So the first verse of this Indian text is verse 29 of chapter 17. And the English translation that I gave you, I think, is, it has a little introduction which says, here are two verses, which are 29, two verses concerning the various objects.

[13:07]

of compassion. So we have like, now we have compassion which embraces living beings, right? A compassion which embraces all living beings. This is great compassion. So not just compassion for one, it's compassion for all different types. And so then what follows in the next two verses is basically 10. So the ocean is analyzed into 10 categories in this scripture. And here I'll read you the 10 categories, which you may have already read. Inflamed under the powers of enemies, oppressed by suffering, enveloped in darkness, traveling a difficult road, bound by great chains, and of food mixed with poison, strayed from the path, remaining on the wrong path of little strength.

[14:32]

I think that was 10 categories there. And then it concludes by saying, the bodhisattva takes compassion on such beings. And, you know, so, when you hear that, those categories, I would guess that you can imagine lots of different beings who might be in those categories. And so maybe I'd like to talk to you about those categories. But before I talk to you about those categories, I wanted to give you a current example from my life.

[15:36]

And see where that might go in this list. Or maybe it doesn't go in this list. Maybe this list of 10 categories isn't big enough. Because it's a really big ocean. So here's my current new list. beings that I'm practicing compassion towards in my life. I just thought of my last talk at Green Gulch, which if you want to, you can listen to. And I think the name of the talk is Practicing Giving and Receiving Gophers. So that talk was about how for a long time, I did not practice compassion with the gophers. I missed the opportunity for a long time. But now, finally, I'm practicing compassion towards the gophers that live around the house I live in.

[16:45]

I have finally surrendered my services to gophers. I'm no longer in opposition to them. They have caused me considerable difficulty that they also may have problems. And so now I practice compassion with the gophers. And I talked about that. But the new opportunity, a new opportunity has come into my life starting on the night of June 22nd. I went to see the orthopedic surgeon actually on June 22nd to talk about some pains I've been having in my knees. And yeah, and I talked to him about various ways of dealing with the pain and some possible treatments

[17:54]

Is what I'm saying clear? Okay. So, and then that night, after my, no, then after the meeting with the doctor, I went back to Green Gulch and I took a lovely walk in the mountains, in the tall hills. Very nice walk, beautiful walk. My legs felt just pretty much fine the whole time. And then later that night, I felt this kind of strange pain. And I said to my dear wife, I said, oh, a new pain has come to me. But it came to me when I was lying down. It wasn't that bad, but it was new. And yeah, it was a new pain. But then when I got up in the morning of 23rd, It was, and I tried to walk.

[19:04]

It was really painful. I've never had so much pain in my knees. And yeah, there it was. A big and surprising pain in my left knee. And I got dressed and I walked to the Zendo using walking poles. And, yeah, and then I, actually I walked to the Zendo using walking poles, the entrance of the Zendo to my seat without them, very slowly. And then, yeah, and then the next day too, really painful. I could barely walk. is that if I walked really slowly, I could walk. So since that time, I've been walking very slowly.

[20:10]

If I would walk the way we do in, if I walk that way, I would, it's actually not very painful. But if I walk faster than that, it's quite painful. And to walk K'in Hin, how many people don't know what K'in, have not heard about K'in Hin? Yeah. It's the walking meditation we do in the Zendo, and it's very slow, and we only take half a step at a time, like this, and then like this. And at that rate, it would take me about half an hour to get to the Zendo. So I have not been walking, that's But, you know, still slow enough so it's not so painful. So that's the pain that's come to me. And I have been trying to step by step practice to each painful step.

[21:23]

It took me a few days to remember to do that. But now I'm practicing compassion towards each step. And on the list of the 10 categories that are in this scripture or in this text, this text on compassion, they don't have on their pain in the left knee as one of the things that are objects of compassion. But that's of compassion for me. I'm remembering compassion. I'm trying to welcome the pain in my knee step by step. Right now, I'm sitting. I'm not walking. My knee doesn't hurt. If I get up and walk, and sometimes I walk so slowly, it doesn't hurt. And then suddenly it starts to hurt again, and I practice compassion.

[22:31]

The compassion does not make the pain go away. And the compassion actually is not trying to get the pain to go away. The compassion is being kind to the pain. And if I walk and it's not painful, then I practice compassion towards it. towards the unpainful walking. So you may, later in this text, you may notice, you may, we may see that instructed to practice compassion towards basically everything, practice compassion towards beings who are happy and beings who are sad. But now I'm trying to focus, remember to practice compassion when the pain comes and continue with the steps that aren't painful so that this pain that's come to me has actually inspired me to practice compassion when I'm walking.

[23:50]

And it hasn't gotten the pain to go away. And the pain is not as bad as it is. It's calmed down. And part of the reason it's calmed down is because I'm walking slower. But still, I want to practice compassion with my slow walking. So when we do slow walking in Zen meditation hall, They don't say that we're practicing compassion when we're doing the slow walking. But now I would like to suggest to all of us and to you folks who can walk faster, that you consider practicing compassion with each step. This is an example of compassion, which you might be able to look and see if you can find it in the list of 10 there. So yeah, so now I'd like to, let's see. Yeah.

[24:56]

So we've just done two. Good, huh? We did the first two verses. And before we go on to the third, I want to stop and see if you have any comments on these categories or any questions about my funny practice of compassion with my left knee. No, there's a wonderful movie called My Left Toe. Right? Isn't that what it's called? Isn't that it? My Left Toe? So this is my left knee. And yeah, it's calling for my compassion. It is compassion. It's saying, the pain isn't saying, get rid of me. The pain is saying, listen to me. Listen to me. So I propose to you that pain that's calling out to me, ow, ow, ow, pain is a living being.

[26:02]

It's not like a human being, but it's a being that lives with a human being. And I'm a human being, you could say, or this human being lives with those pains. And those pains and this living human being, they're inseparable. I can call for compassion, like, please, Great Assembly, bestow your compassion on this person. Yes. But also, this knee, this knee is calling, pain in this knee is calling for my compassion. And actually, I think it's calling for my compassion. And I actually don't think it's limited to me. I think it's calling for everybody's compassion. So that's my introduction to our first meeting. And I welcome your comments on the text, on my new walking practice, my new walking compassion practice.

[27:15]

Oh, by the way, one of our ancestors, the name of the... It's the ancestor we call Seigen Gyoshi. So the sixth ancestor of Zen had two main disciples, and both of those disciples, their lineages come down to our lineage. But the one that was called Socho school was called Seigen Gyoshi. And Gyoshi means walking and thinking. That's the name of that ancestor. Walking and thinking. I'm suggesting that That ancestor was walking and thinking of compassion. I'm following that practice. I'm walking and thinking of compassion. And you can check in with me if my left knee stops hurting if I continued the practice of walking and thinking of compassion.

[28:17]

And, you know, I may ask you sometime, are you walking and thinking of compassion? So are you wanting to offer anything? Great Assembly, Great Assembly beings? Are we waiting to be called upon? You are welcome to be called upon. You're up, Tracy. Thank you. Well, first, Red, just to say it's wonderful to be with you. It's wonderful to be with you. Second, to say I'm sorry for your pain. Do you feel sorrow about my pain? I do. And you may not, but I do.

[29:24]

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for sharing my pain. Yeah, that's what I actually am doing. I have a question on what we've talked about so far and a comment on what we haven't yet talked about. It might take us in a direction you don't want to say that. But my question is, as I've heard you talk tonight, it almost feels like you could or I could substitute the word acceptance for compassion. Every single time you said compassion for, compassion for, in my mind I thought, well, he's just saying accept it, accept it. They welcome it. And is that minimizing it to think of it that way? What did I say? I would say certainly acceptance is part of compassion. Yes. But I would say it does limit it. Because acceptance, for example, doesn't necessarily mean being generous. And what do you mean by generous in the affair of your knee?

[30:30]

Well, like you might accept that my knee is suffering, but you might not see that you're giving me a gift or that it's a gift to you. I mean, if somebody says, I accept it, I might say, well, is that an act of generosity? And they might say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Also, acceptance doesn't necessarily mean that you're being careful. So acceptance doesn't necessarily mean that you're practicing ethics. So you could accept my pain or your pain, but not necessarily be careful of it. I see where you're going with this. And you could accept it... without being patient with it. And you could accept it without being calm with it. And you could accept it without being enthusiastic about taking care of it.

[31:36]

But acceptance goes well with all. But compassion is more engaging than just accepting. Compassion isn't just, okay, if I give you a ball, you accept it. That's part of compassion, if I give you a ball. a ball of pain. You say, here's a ball of pain, Tracy. You say, oh, okay, thank you. That's kind of like generosity and acceptance. But compassion is also that you give me the gift. You don't just accept my pain or your pain. You give me a gift. And also that you are a gift and the pain is a gift. You're focusing generosity process. But acceptance works very well with that. I think it's very difficult to practice generosity if you don't accept the situation. So I have to accept my pain in order to be generous with it.

[32:39]

I need to accept it in order to say welcome to it. If I don't accept it, I don't have anything there to welcome. I shouldn't say I don't have anything. But accepting, like, let's let the whole thing come in and now let's practice generosity with it. And let's be careful with it. And, you know, let's not numb ourselves to it. Let's not distract ourselves from it. Let's not try to get rid of it. Yeah, so I would say acceptance is included, but it doesn't necessarily bring enough engagement. Because compassion is based on acceptance. And acceptance is part of being with something. But there's more to being with things than acceptance, I would say. Okay. I'm not just accepting you, I'm being of service to you. I accept you and I'm also your servant. And also, if I want to be your servant, it would be good if I accepted you.

[33:44]

So I think acceptance is part of the process, but it doesn't really, it isn't quite as comprehensive a statement as compassion includes all those practices. Right. Okay. I appreciate that. It makes sense to me. I got caught in a loop of thinking, wait, it's just talking about itself. Anyway, that's helpful. Now, here's the thing I want to comment on or would like you to comment since the intensive this year I have found myself tremendously compelled by the idea of compassion the study of compassion it's kind of I don't even know how to describe it but it's a little bit taking me over in my thoughts or in how I And I'm noticing it's, I feel weird or out of sync with the people around me.

[34:51]

And specifically, here's where I may be stuck. If I really am practicing compassion with all things at all times, then I'm useless to my friends who are activists. I'm useless to my friends who want to change the world, who want to make something happen. Or at least I've got it truncated in my head in some way. Because I'm so busy accepting the people I hate and all those things you just talked about that it's like I'm embarrassed about that right now. And maybe you're the wrong person to talk to about this. Because maybe... Maybe you think that's the thing to do. And I think you do think that for a million years. And I've heard you say that for a million years. But I'm telling you, I actually feel weird with my colleagues right now. I am embarrassed to be compassionate about things that they're enraged by.

[35:56]

A lot there. And I think it's all worthy of a response. from me and other people. Should we start with me? Please. If you know some beings are activists, they might fall into one of these 10 categories. And even if they don't, I would say, let's make an 11th category for all your activist friends. You can practice compassion towards the activists, towards your friends. They deserve your compassion. And any being that they hate is calling for your compassion.

[37:02]

And also their hatred If they do hate, I don't know if they hate. I don't know if they hate, but maybe they're enraged. Maybe they don't have ill will, but maybe they're enraged. The first category is inflamed. That's the first category. In some sense, activists are inflamed. They're inflamed with rage. They deserve compassion. Don't they? Then nothing will happen in the world, right? I'll calm them down. Then nothing will happen. Calm them down. I'll accept them. And then the injustice, which is another thing. Are you saying that if they stop being enraged, they can't work anymore? They may be. They'll be like me, just loving everything. Then who's going to be? Will they stop doing their activist work? Maybe. It's possible, yeah.

[38:03]

Okay, so this is coming up, but anyway, the people who quit doing activist work are sometimes the people who don't practice compassion towards their anger. They burn anger. Anyway, before we get to that, I just want to point out that your friends who are your friends are calling for compassion and you could be of great benefit to them by being compassionate to them. And somebody said, I think one of the people who founded this organization called SEVA, which means service, they said, I think that anger is the caffeine of service. And some people are using caffeine to keep themselves working.

[39:05]

But still, even though they're using that anger in some sense to get themselves going, when they're tired, they take some anger and then they go to work. calling for compassion. It doesn't mean they'll stop being angry. It just means they'll get some compassion along with their, they've got all the, they've got the problem, they've got the anger. Now you can give them compassion. And also, if you give yourself compassion, and that helps you, that helps them. And it doesn't mean everybody will stop doing their, you know, their work, their activist work. As a matter of fact, if you practice compassion towards some people, they will become activists. Some people who are not activists become activists sometimes because they start to notice a problem, which they already saw before, but because someone's kind to them, they somehow can get up off the floor and start meeting the problem which they have not been facing before.

[40:14]

They knew it was there, but they're pushing it away. They weren't being kind to it. made them just more downtrodden. So in a way, the activists could be seen as the inflamed people. And all the activists who are inflamed with rage, they are calling for compassion and bodhisattvas practice compassion towards activists. But that doesn't mean they stop being activists or stop even being enraged. It just means that they are an opportunity to do something really good for the world and for them. How is it good for them? In what way is it good for me to be compassionate to them? Well, it might free them from their addiction to anger. It might free them from anger. And they might be able to work lovingly without much anger anymore. And also, they might be able to do their work in a way that doesn't

[41:19]

Lots of activists get burned out because they don't know how to practice compassion on the job. And nobody's practicing compassion with them, so nobody's teaching them. And they can't learn by themselves. So this part of what we're doing now is to learn how compassion helps people do their work in a beneficial way. Not all activists are... Do you think possibly... That the people who did the, what do we call the, what's that called? The January 6th insurrection. Do you think they thought they were activists? Yeah. Yeah, I think they did. So there's activists. But do you think they thought they were being compassionate? Maybe they did. I don't know. A lot of them, I don't think a lot of them thought that they were being compassionate. Maybe they did. But somebody has to teach those. Somebody has to teach the people who do those things compassion.

[42:22]

Somebody has to if we want to have peace and harmony in the world. Somebody has to teach all the people who got all the guns compassion. Somebody has to have the gun's compassion. And gun rights activists, there's gun rights activists, somebody has to teach those people compassion. Gun control activists, somebody has to teach them. If we want peace. If the gun rights people don't practice compassion and the gun control people don't practice compassion, then I think we just have continuation of our present situation. Until both sides learn how to practice compassion. Thank you.

[43:38]

Hello, Rav. Hello, Rana. Very good to see you and the rest of the group. Well, I think it's very auspicious because I had to deal with my left knee pain for four months, still ongoing. And it's teaching me the pain itself. It's teaching me compassion. All the people with the cane, with bending back, I noticed them. How is the pain teaching you compassion? I don't know. It opens my eyes because for a time I thought... It opens your eyes. But does it teach you to open your eyes? Being with it, being with the pain.

[45:03]

It's just, there's no other way. I don't think the pain, my pain isn't teaching me compassion. I don't see that yet. Because you already had it. Pardon? Because you already had it. And it's reminding me of it. It's calling for it. It's screaming at me to practice compassion. But it's not really teaching me. So I would say your pain in your knee and my pain in my knee, they're reminding us to practice compassion. But they're not actually teaching us how. They're just reminding us of it. So then we can practice compassion towards these calls. We can listen to them. We can open our eyes to them. Yeah, because I noticed the fact that this is the very first teaching of Buddha, but I've never heard it, you know, that we've been born, then we get old, then we get sick, then we die.

[46:15]

I did not hear that. I thought, oh, my knee hurts. There must be a doctor. They are supposed to make me feel better. So I was looking for, you know, I thought this is a logic. You know, is my body in pain? The doctor should do it. The person who's looking to the doctor, the one who's looking to the doctor for help, that person is calling for compassion. But may I say why I think it's a pain? I'm waiting for you to tell me. I haven't seen how it teaches you. I haven't heard that yet. I've heard how it reminds you or stimulates you, but I haven't heard how it teaches you. It teaches me that there is no way to escape the old age and death.

[47:21]

There is no way to escape that. And I see everyone experiencing pain one way or another. So the pain is teaching you no escape. Okay. That's a good teaching. No escape teaching. Thank you, pain. But it's very difficult, obviously. And it's making me in the center of the ocean. It doesn't allow me to go watch, you know, from the shore. I don't think so. I wouldn't say it doesn't allow you. It reminds you that you're not allowed to. It doesn't stop you. It reminds you that you can't get away. But it reminds you. Yeah, thank you. That's the right way to say it. In that sense, it's teaching you. You can't get away from your seat. And it's teaching me that too.

[48:24]

But, you know, we can say, shut up. I don't want to hear that. But that's what it's trying to teach us. It's trying to teach us that there's no escape from our seat. It's Part of my compassion to the pain is thank you for reminding me that I can't get away from the seat. And when we can't get away from our seat, then it cracks open the heart. The heart is compassion. No, when we accept that we can't get away. It's just a fact that we can't get away. But we have to accept that. When we accept it, the heart cracks. There is no other choice but accepting. Well, there is another choice. You cannot accept.

[49:26]

And that keeps the heart shut. But it makes it worse. I know it makes it worse, but people choose that. People choose that. That's one of the categories here. People who choose to not accept. that you can't get away. People do choose to not accept. That's one of the categories here. You can choose to not accept. And when we do choose to not accept, then we are one of the things on this list and we deserve compassion when we don't accept. It's ridiculous not to accept, but, oh, Linda just counted and said there's nine categories. Anyway, people do choose not to accept. It makes it worse. But the pain is going, knock, knock, please accept. Knock, knock, please accept. When we accept, then the door of the heart opens.

[50:29]

And that's the pain wants us to open the door of our hearts. And it just keeps knocking. Yes. Okay. But I wanted to say, but you said it perfectly. Thank you. Thank you for making me say that. Good evening, Rev. Good evening, Gayatri. It's beautiful to be back again with this great sangha. And just like everyone, I'm offering my wishes for as little pain. So just want to offer that to you. Yeah. Would you please wish me compassion for my pain? And compassion for your pain.

[51:33]

Thank you. Wish you compassion for your pain. So it actually brings me to my question. My original question before Tracy spoke was, how does that compassion actually look when you're practicing? Like you said, you know, with every step, you're practicing compassion. Every step, I say, welcome. Ah. And I do that, but then sometimes I switch to, thank you, you're welcome. You're welcome, thank you. I say things like that to encourage compassion towards the pain and also be patient, being patient with each pain, not skipping over it. Be right there with it as patience. Those are some practices I'm doing while I'm walking. Right. So it looks like you're very present with the pain.

[52:34]

You feel it. You sense it. And then there's some phrase or something that you say in your mind. So it's something where you actually kind of mentally whisper something. Being present is also mentally being present. Right. So I don't necessarily say the word patience, but patience is being there with it. So I'm actually doing the patience practice, even though I don't necessarily. Patience. And also welcome with or without the word welcome. But I find the word welcome helps. And then I can say, sometimes I might say welcome to something, but not really mean it. Mm-hmm. So sometimes saying welcome helps for me to mean that. Did you really mean welcome to that pain? And I kind of go, well, not really. I'll try it again. Mm-hmm. So I'm actually doing that right now. Now I'm not walking, so I'm pretty comfortable.

[53:35]

But when I get up to walk again, I do these practices with my walk. Particularly, I deal with the pain. But I really should do it even when it's not painful. I should be present with my unpainful steps too. I should be patient with them too. Here's a step right here with it. I'm patient with this foot being in this spot. I'm not trying to be in the next spot yet. So I would say I'm trying to practice patience with each step, including the painful and unpainful. Be generous towards each step, painful or unpainful. Right. Yeah, because you use the word generous, you know, so there's the acceptance part of it. And then there's that extra there's something more to compassion than just the mere acceptance of it.

[54:37]

You're you're saying, OK, welcome. You can be here. It's OK. Thank you. Welcome. You can be here. It's that or it's the attitude of the heart that kind of says that in it doesn't not necessarily verbally or mentally work. articulating it in some way but just in the spirit of those words right so I think the hard part is to continue when it's not painful yes but then you also said to Tracy about the activists you know so the people who are angry and trying to that they are Broke up. Deserving or wanting or asking. Yeah, you broke up. Sorry? You're back now. They're asking for compassion. I think so. No, I was saying, so they're also...

[55:39]

for compassion. Their anger is needing compassion. But then later you said when she asked, well, how does that help them? And you said, well, that will help them do those actions in a more in a more harmonious way internally and more effectively because they're not working out of anger and rage, but more from a place of equanimity and balance. But in a way, wouldn't you say that that kind of compassion is more... Stealth, compassion, where they don't even know that you're offering it to them in any direct way, but you're just opening your heart to their anger and that they're suffering. But they don't need to know about that. It may not even affect the way they are in the way they work. But you are offering. Anyway, it's a form of like it's stealth in a way like they don't they don't need to know about it.

[56:45]

It's stealth. And it's hard to understand how stealth helps people. But part of the difficult teaching here is that you can carry yourself and other people. And you can't even see it. They can't see it and you can't see it. Sometimes they can, but we cannot see how we're actually helping all people. But the bodhisattva is trying to help everybody, but they can't see how. And in some cases you can see, I'm trying to help people, but they don't see it. But you're still trying to, and the fact that you're trying to, and the way you're trying helps you, that helps them. Mm-hmm. You see, they didn't know what I was doing, but they learned how to do this thing that I was hoping they would learn.

[57:46]

And they didn't know they learned it from me. And you don't know that either, right? You wouldn't know whether they learned it from you or not, but maybe you see. All I know is they seem to have learned it from me. I was in the neighborhood. So, you know, something good had happened in the community, and I was there, but I don't know if it's because of my practice. But I understand that my practice was helping them even before I saw that they learned it. Isn't it, though, that when we practice compassion, that we're doing it without any expectation of anything getting better for anybody or anything changing? I mean, isn't it more of like a completely unconditional offering of great compassion? Sorry? That's great compassion. Uh-huh. Okay. That's the compassion which we're trying to learn.

[58:49]

There's other compassion where people are still trying to get things to be better and trying to get something out of it. There's that compassion too, which I'll talk about later. Okay. But great compassion is not trying to make things better. It's trying to make people at peace before anything changes. Right now. It's not waiting until later for peace and harmony. It's discovering it in the situation. And then helping others discover it in other current situations. And helping other people be free of trying to go to some other place to find peace. Which is normal human activity. and someplace else to find peace rather than here. Right. Thank you.

[59:54]

Hello, Rep. Hello, Jiaying. I am realizing that there's maybe a lot to compassion, and you just introduced the differentiation between compassion and great compassion. And so it's just I am even more confused now. But let me share. There was something that happened yesterday in my life that kind of got brought up when you're describing your practice with compassion with your knee. So yesterday I went hiking with a friend and we had a plan. We were going to go on this hike. And in my mind, I saw, okay, this is the trail that my other friend recommended. So we just follow this trail. And the friend that went with me, along the way, we hiked maybe an hour and a half.

[61:14]

And then he said, why are we always going uphill? It's always uphill. How are we going back to the parking lot? And then I was like, trying to practice trust. and trying to tolerate the suffering. And I said, oh, we'll just have to trust. We'll eventually get back there. It's a loop. And then after the end of the trial, we realized, oh, we are completely lost. That was not a loop. And so I was like reflecting on, oh, should I have not trusted or should I be more sensitive to his call of like his company and so anyway that kind of like the way i relayed this experience was how sometimes compassion maybe i'm just learning part of the the meaning about this word or this teaching is trying to be with suffering or trying to be with this discomfort

[62:19]

But sometimes on that path, I was trying to tolerate the uphill. And then even though my friend was complaining and I was like, yes, but we can do this. We just need to continue. And so there seems to be some subtlety of how much you tolerate and what kind of circumstances when you're tolerating that compassion happens. And what's missing in, in my practice, like is curiosity missing out in my practice is generosity missing out in my practice. Like I was certainly feeling like I was accepting, I accept this is just the highway. Just have to keep going. And then eventually you'll find the parking lot, but I wasn't being open. And so I. I don't know, like for instance, to your knee pain situation, you're describing how you're being, um, being generous to each, each sensation and you're practicing step by step with compassion.

[63:36]

And I also noticed that you've mentioned that you've, and you've, um, you've tried different ways to make the pain be less painful. And so can you say a little bit about how to balance the not avoiding pain, but also wanting to make the pain less? Okay, so can you relate to your hike first? Yes, please. So the second topic is an important topic. Let's deal with, first we deal with your hike. I feel like the way you took care of yourself, that you were practicing patience with whatever difficulty you were going through. I think that was good, the way you took care of yourself. But I think you also are, now you're asking some questions like, was I open? Was I curious? Was I listening to his

[64:39]

So it does sound like you weren't so much curious about what he was talking about. You didn't stop and say, what are you telling me? And how are you feeling? But I feel like you were dealing with your own difficulty of doing the hike. I don't feel like you were listening to him very much. Yeah. And you said curiosity. I didn't feel like you were really curious about what he was saying and really open to what he might be saying and really listening to his pain. So I think partly you were being compassionate to your own situation, but maybe missed out on listening to him. And in a way, I feel like, although you might not have gotten much of a hike if you had listened to him, you would have practiced compassion more. You would have covered less ground, but you would have maybe stopped the joy of practicing compassion with him.

[65:43]

And then he could also practice compassion with you and your difficulty and your wish to keep going. That would have been a different story. Yeah. The other topic is really a big one. Am I going to the doctor to reduce my pain? Or am I going to the doctor in the process of being compassionate with my pain? Am I listening to my pain and trying to take care of it, compassionate with it? And is me being compassionate towards the pain, does that involve seeing a doctor? Maybe. But wishing for the pain to be less is not the same as compassion. Compassion doesn't wish the pain to be more or less. It wishes for freedom from pain. It's not trying to get the pain to be reduced.

[66:50]

It's working with the current pain, whatever it is. It's listening to it. It's being open to it. It's being curious with it. to get rid of it so we can confuse trying to get rid of the pain with being with it compassion is being with it compassion is not getting rid of it but if in the process of being with it and spirit or with the practice of compassion compassionately being with it the pain is telling us There's something that needs to be done. In the process of being compassionate with the pain, you might realize that it would be good to sit down. Yeah. You might realize it would be good to stop walking. You might realize it would be good to see a doctor. That that might be good. It might be beneficial. But not primarily for the motivation of getting rid of the pain.

[67:53]

More than the motivation of taking care of your body. And as we're taking care of our body, we can slip into trying to make our body different from the way it is right now. So if someone's crying out to us, we can take care of them, even though they just keep crying. But if someone's crying to us and we're taking care of them and trying to get them to stop, they continue to cry, we might abandon them. because they're not stopping, they're continuing to cry. But if we practice compassion with people who are crying and they don't stop, if it's true compassion, we don't get exhausted and we don't abandon them and start even not liking them because they don't stop crying. I thank you so much for using this emotion,

[68:54]

crying analogy because I'm a therapist I know that so much better physical pain so that makes me think about like when somebody's crying that if you're trying to comfort them and make them feel all better then it's you're not being with their suffering and they are not being listened to and that makes them feel rejected and that makes their suffering and so that would be the same way not teaching them compassion Yeah. You're teaching them what they already know, trying to get rid of it. Right. They already know how to do that. Somebody has to teach them how to be with it. That's what they don't know how to do. Yeah. But even though they're with it, even though they don't know how to be with it, they can still maybe take care of their body in an appropriate way, which may change the health situation in a good way. Yeah. Before the changes, we're already doing something good.

[69:56]

Yeah. Thank you very much. Hello. Hello. It is maintained. extremely lean of speech. I have lots to say on two topics, and I'm going to be lean. I want to make a comment about the activist compassion, because I've done some activism in this last four years since Trump was elected. Quite a bit, actually, considering I did nothing. All I can say is... in an activist situation, a protest, there's nothing more needed is compassion. Compassion for every moment of every person who's a victim or a perpetrator. It's just the only thing that will change anything.

[70:59]

Then regarding the being with pain, It's very painful for me to hear your knee hurts. I'm a healing touch practitioner. I spent today working with people in a lot of pain, and I was actually able to do quite a bit. And I wasn't like my intention was just to reduce it. My intention was to listen to their pain with my energy. But the medical profession, nurses in particular, you know, our job is to help. That is huge. And I'm not saying that being with pain isn't a godsend as a Zen person, but it isn't the whole thing. And, like, I do healing touch on my own body all the time, and I change pain all the time. I'm healing it. I'm being with it as I heal it.

[72:03]

So, I mean, I believe that compassion is energy. And we are only energy. And that if I bend my energy close enough to what's hurting, that the energy itself can heal tissue. It can heal rips and auras. It can bring guides in from other dimensions to bring peace. That wasn't that lean. What are your thoughts? And then I'll say goodbye. My thoughts are that was the punchline. I'm working on your knee. Thank you for your gift. You're welcome. Pam?

[73:14]

I thought that maybe there were a couple people ahead of me. I wanted to offer my support and appreciation for your practice of compassion and thank you for sharing your story with us. And I'm also really enjoying the conversation we're hitting on rich and wonderful topics. And one of them I just wanted to comment a little bit on, and that is the difference between acceptance and compassion, those two things, and saying that it's okay, that sometimes It's easy to get confused and think that to accept something or to show compassion towards it means that you're saying that it's okay, that it's here. I'm not going to do anything about it. And what I think has been helpful for me Practicing compassion, accepting that something is happening, is very different.

[74:27]

That it's not the same as saying, like, it's okay, there's no problem. So I just wanted to point that out, that they're really different. Yeah, they're really different. Okay is a judgment. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that there's a... Acceptance isn't a judgment. Yeah, and I think there may be a fear that if I practice compassion towards someone who's harming somebody, that I won't be motivated to change the situation. And it's, well, what Jiren said was just so powerful that if I'm so filled with anger towards someone that's harming somebody, I'm not going to be very effective in trying to change someone what's happening but if just you can be compassionate towards your anger yeah right yeah and even like so for me practicing compassion towards someone who's harming somebody else might might be to stop them from harming some the other person it might

[75:39]

Because it's not so much that stopping them is compassion, but that you're stopping as an act of compassion. The reason why I was thinking that stopping them could be an act of compassion is might be because when they're harming other people, well, they're probably suffering, but they're also going to reap some more suffering, not just the suffering. You're protecting them from the suffering that will cause them. Right, exactly. That's the reason you might stop them. Right. Yeah, in addition to compassion towards the people who are being harmed. Yeah. So I just wanted to offer those things. Thank you very much. That's a wonderful distinction to remember. Thank you. Sometimes people kind of ask me to say it's okay.

[76:45]

And I usually say, well, I don't think that's my job. Leslie. Leslie. I wasn't quite ready. Want to come back later? No. Train came back to the station. I'm concerned that my question may be too literal, but here I go. So if we're showing compassion to, and you are showing compassion to your knee even when your knee doesn't hurt. So how, how do you attention to all of the things that need compassion? Like if I, I'm trying to show compassion to my son's chronic depression and then to my confusion and then to the people sleeping on the street and then, and it just, there's so much, how do you,

[77:57]

to focus on. Like if you're so focused on this one thing, there's so much to be compassionate about. I'm not really so much focused on this one. I'm actually trying to also be focused that I'm in the middle of all of them. That's good. I'm in the middle of all of them. There's one that's maybe in my face right now. But I understand that this one in my face, I'm dealing with this one for all the other ones. Like I'm talking to you right now. I'm not exactly focused on you. I'm just like meeting you for the sake of everybody else in this meeting. What we're doing here, everybody else is watching us. We're doing this for them. I'm not just doing this for me. And I'm not just doing this just for you, but you're the one I'm talking to now. And like Suzuki Roshi used to say, someone, like sometimes he would be talking to someone and the next person might say, well, when am I going to get my turn?

[79:06]

He said, you need to understand when I'm talking to somebody, I'm talking to them for you. So you're dealing with your son's depression at the center of the universe. This is your karmic delivery system. You've got your son right there, you're taking care of him, but you're taking care of him for everyone. When I got married, I didn't get married to do myself a favor only. I got married for the whole community. I thought it would benefit the whole community if I got married. And I'm talking to you now, and I think I want my conversation to you to be for you, but not primarily for you. for you but for you and everybody and then and then you go away and the next person comes or the next problem comes so i take care of my knee my poor little knee but i'm taking care of my knee you know and i thought oh i'm taking care of my knee but my the me taking care of my knee i can share with the whole group i'm taking care of my knee not just for me not just because my knee is calling but my knee is calling and i can't hear anybody i can't hear you

[80:30]

When I'm walking around this temple. But I can't hear my knee. And then if I take care of my knee. That helps me talk to you. Taking care of my knee. For you. And for everybody else in this group. Not just for me. Not just for my knee. But in fact. My knee is calling to me. And then it's not. So. But I remember. That whatever I'm doing. For this person. Yeah. And then this person is gone and the next person comes or the next pain comes. I'm not taking care of this pain just for this pain. I'm taking care of this pain for all beings because that's where I live is in the middle of all. And then living in the middle of all of them, I have a knee in the middle of all of them, which I take care of. For you. I'm sorry.

[81:35]

It's the same when if we go through life just ourselves and telling ourselves terrible things, that's the same thing. Exactly. That it's hurting everybody. If you don't take care of those things you just said, then you're not taking care of anybody. take care of those things you're taking care of everybody because everybody's around you all the time and everybody is picking up on your practice and your practice of taking care of your problems your individual problems is no end to helps and some of the people it helps they already know how to do it and they just think Good work, Leslie. Keep it up. Thanks for joining the program. But you're still helping them. Stealth.

[82:41]

That one I can feel. It doesn't, I can feel it. It's an opening. It's an opening. Thank you very much. Thank you. Holding a phone. Are there any others tonight? Yuki? Hello. Hello. Can you hear? Hi. So... I think I'm kind of, but I think that if I'm thinking about being compassionate to a knee that's in pain, there's a slight difference in how I relate to it as your knee when I'm a little bit, there's a little bit of separation between me That object of compassion.

[83:43]

Or if I identify it with it as it's mine or it's ours or whatever, that's a different kind of thing. And I don't know which of those is on track. I think one of them's a little bit maybe more on track than the other. I didn't understand the difference between... I don't hear the two things. Well, for instance, I also have a painful knee. So I have compassion towards your knee. Yes. And I have compassion for my knee. Yes. But the compassion for my knee, I'm identified with the knee. Wait, wait, wait. That's another thing to be compassionate with. So that's what I wanted to ask you about. Pain in the knee. Passion. Identifying with a knee is calling for compassion too.

[84:46]

So those are two things. Well, you have three things. My knee pain, your knee pain, and your identification with your knee. All three of those. And maybe a fourth thing, which is that I'm feeling a little separation between myself and your pain. Separation. Separation is another thing to be compassionate towards. Feeling separated, that's another being. That's called compassion too. There's nothing that's happening that's saying, don't be compassionate. Nothing's saying stop the compassion practice for a while. Like there's some stuff behind you on a bulletin board. I can't tell if that's a, A collage or a... Anyway, all those pictures are calling for compassion. Everything's calling for compassion. So when you're looking at a sunset or looking at a pain, those are both opportunities for compassion.

[85:59]

I think what I'm asking in part is, and I mean, it's kind of a weird question, but should I be working on the sense of separation or on the sense of identification, or are they both slightly problematic? Sense of separation when the sense of separation is here. And you should not work on it when it's not here. Okay. And when the sense of identification is here, you should work with that. And when the pain in your knee is here, you should work with the pain in your knee. And when the pain is in your nose, you should work in the pain in your nose. And don't be remembering that you used to have pain in your knees. But if you do remember that you used to have pain in your knees, be compassionate to that memory, which is present right now. Be compassionate to what's in your face and do that to all beings. I would suggest.

[87:06]

Encouraged by the text we're reading. I think I've heard somewhere that, you know, it's better to feel others' pain as your own. That's a good thing. That's another good exercise which we can talk about later if you want to. But I want to respect that we supposedly were going to end at 8.45, 8.50. So I just say thank you to everybody. And next week, I'm going to bring up some really difficult things. I probably should have brought them up this week. But come back next week for some difficult stuff. Okay? And thank you very much for this easy... And also, I just want to say, I hope it's not embarrassing to Nancy Scott, but it looks like you can hear pretty well.

[88:09]

Is that right? I love Zoom. Yeah, you can hear great. Thank you, Rev. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Good night, Rev. Thank you.

[88:24]

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