Great Assembly would remember stillness and receive it and practice it and transmit it stillness Right here. Can you see it? Thank you. And kind of up. Fine. I'm attempting to remember stillness as I tap my heels on this towel to soak up water.

[01:02]

As I pass the towel and receive more water. Some people signed up for this class and came to the first class and then they withdrew from the class because they were looking for a different type of meditation instruction. And then I also got a message from the director of the yoga room asking if I could recommend someone to give beginners meditation instruction. When I pray for us to remember stillness, I'm praying for a certain type of meditation practice, which is a kind of meditation sort of where we kind of give up

[02:23]

our active karmic consciousness. Just let it go. And also, karmic consciousness might try to stop karmic consciousness from being karmic consciousness. Karmic consciousness, active consciousness, busy consciousness, those are synonyms. busy consciousness often tries to stop busy consciousness from being busy, which of course makes it a little bit more busy or way more busy. But letting the busy consciousness be being generous towards it and careful of it and so on, is summarized by remembering stillness.

[03:30]

If you remember stillness and receive it and practice it, that is another way to speak about letting your active self-consciousness be your active self-consciousness. And if you just let it be, completely, you let go of it. And that sets the stage for enlightenment. Because enlightenment lives in letting go of karmic consciousness, or in other words, remembering the stillness of karmic consciousness when you stop messing with it. So the beginner's instruction is, again, not even me suggesting to you that you be still, because that's a little too active, but that you remember stillness because your mind already is still.

[04:43]

You don't have to make it still. It is actually where it is and what it is and being where it is and what it is, that's its stillness. You don't have to make it that way. Every moment that's the way it is. But we do kind of... we have the responsibility to remember it. So I... I'm suggesting to us that We have the responsibility to remember stillness. Another way to put that is our mind, our conscious mind is calling to us to remember stillness. It wants stillness to be remembered so it can be calm and it can be ready for awakening. That's a kind of beginner's instruction which I'm offering to you repeatedly here.

[05:59]

But it's kind of like not the whole class. The whole class is remember stillness, okay? That's your responsibility for your consciousness because your consciousness is asking you to be responsible to it and for it. And part of this responsibility to your consciousness is part of opening up to having a conversation, a fully responsible conversation, where you're taking care of your own mind, your own conscious mind, so that you can have a fully responsible, genuine conversation with another. And that genuine conversation with the other is what liberates your self-consciousness. The first instruction helps it calm down and helps you be present with it.

[07:03]

The next teaching of this class is about enlightenment which is a conversation that's occurring in a fully responsible situation. So the conversation can be described many ways. One of the ways of describing it in this class is a conversation between finite mind, self-consciousness, and infinite mind. Finite life and infinite life. That conversation is going on all the time. but it's like fully alive when we remember stillness. It's fully alive in stillness and it's our responsibility to remember the stillness where it lives.

[08:10]

And Charlie has, Charlie Wilson has made this little pieces of paper which have information about how to access audio recordings of this class if you want to. Here they are. And the password is, of course, conversation. It's right here. If you need them, they're up here. People can come up and get them if they want to afterwards. I'll just read this now and maybe again later. I think many of you have heard this before that old men and, excuse me for saying, old women ought to be explorers

[09:19]

here and there does not matter. We must be still and still moving into another intensity for a further communion, a deeper communion through the dark, cold, and the empty desolation, the wave cry, the wind cry, the vast waters of the petrel and the porpoise. In my end is my beginning. East Cocker, 1940, T.S.

[10:24]

Eliot. So in this class, old men and old women, and young women and young men too, if they want to come along, ought to be explorers of infinity. But we set forth into the exploration of infinity from the dock of finitude. And we can't set forth until we take care of our launching pad. So our launching pad is our self-consciousness. So last time we were talking about the self-consciousness. And I described it as a clearing in a dark forest.

[11:26]

And I also proposed that in that forest are many, many clearings. So I live in a clearing. I live in a clearing. In a clearing I'm living. That's self-consciousness. It's a place where objects appear. It's a powerful model of my life. But it's a deceptive model because the model looks like it's my whole life. But it's not. It's just a model of my life. Very, very powerful, useful model of my life. And again, it comes with the subliminal message, this is actually your life. There was a TV program called This Is Your Life.

[12:34]

And so they presented karmic consciousness and told people that was their life. But our life is also this dark forest. In our clearing is a picture, a story, a model of our body. But the model of our body and the model of other people's bodies which are so useful and so attractive and not attractive. We're doing quite well with these models. But these models are not our body. Our body is in the dark. and also based on our body, which is in the dark forest, is a cognitive process that serves the body and makes images of the body and manipulates the images to help the body do all kinds of wonderful things, like play the piano and make gestures and smile and so on.

[13:47]

And also in the forest, which is a mind, in the forest, which is a mind, there is a body. The body is a mind. And the mind, that part of the mind is a body. And also there is a mind which doesn't look like a body but looks like stories about the body, which is of course also a mind about the body. And there's also a body that's about the mind. And also in the dark forest are sense data, material things which are not bodies but are minds. appearing as material. So I'm proposing that along with Mr. Einstein I mentioned before matter is a highly concentrated version of energy.

[15:04]

And energy is a not very concentrated or less concentrated version of matter. And they're in conversation, matter and mind. They're pivoting on each other. And mind and matter are the same. Mind is a version of matter and matter is a version of mind. And again, there's three kinds of mind that I propose. One kind of mind is the conscious mind. Another kind of mind is the unconscious mind, non-conscious mind, which includes images and representations of the body and physical data. And then there's a third mind, which is the wisdom mind, which is the conversation between all the different clearings and all the different clearings with all the different bodies

[16:25]

and all the different sense data in the dark. So the way all of our unconscious processes support our conscious processes and the way our conscious processes support other conscious processes and they support us, how that all is working is what we call wisdom. And in order to realize that wisdom, we need to enter into this conversation which wisdom is. Wisdom is this conversation between my consciousness and yours, between my consciousness and my unconscious, between my consciousness and our unconscious, All that conversation is wisdom and we have a chance, we have the responsibility. That conversation is calling to us to respond to.

[17:27]

Like the wave cry and the wind cry, the vast waters, they're calling to us. and we do respond and so we have the opportunity to accept that responsibility. Human beings are calling to us even when they say, like I said before, I don't want to talk to you. Everybody's calling to us. We're responding. we have the responsibility, we have the ability to respond to all the cries, and we do respond to all the cries. So it's a question of accepting our responsibility, which we're doing, which we're doing, which we're doing. And it's also, again, our responsibility to remember stillness because this is so intense. into another intensity, into a further union, into a deeper communion.

[18:39]

We ought to explore this. We are exploring it. And since we are, we ought to. And now we have an opportunity to have a conversation about these minds, if you want. We were into it last time. So, should we talk about self-consciousness some more? Or do you want to talk about the unconscious more? Huh? Forest? You want to talk about the forest? Okay. All right. So the forest is the place from which deities come out and visit us.

[19:47]

And I thought of some more examples of some divine visitors. I just want to find the example. So I told you the example of I'm living in the little self-consciousness in the DMV. So I have this consciousness and in my consciousness there's a department of motor vehicles and I'm there and there's other people and somebody comes and tells me why I'm there. I thought I was there to get my new driver's license. again and again. And then somebody came out of the forest and said, you're here for us. Oh, thank you. In other words, to call into question my understanding of why I was there and why it wasn't so good to be there. So I thought I had the... Oh, here they are. Okay, so the forest...

[20:49]

The forest, my talking about the forest is, again, just conversation pieces, right? And part of one conversation piece is that a lot of people are into this conversation about this forest, about the mind. It's becoming a more respectable topic among scientists to discuss the mind, the unconscious mind and the conscious mind. It's called mind science or... call it mind science? Brain science? So some people say that the mind is really the brain. It's the brain activity. It's entirely material. And some people have said some Buddhist ancestors and some Western philosophers and Eastern philosophers say

[22:00]

that matter and the body are merely mind. And so I'm more suggesting that there's a conversation between matter and mind. So I'm suggesting that the body is the basis for life where there's a mind that lives with the body. And it may be the case that there's some life where there's physicality in the sense of sense physicality and that there's mind but maybe no self-consciousness. but still there's life.

[23:03]

And again, as I mentioned before, it looks like human beings can be alive and not have self-consciousness for a while or for quite a long time. But the realization of wisdom seems to, for us, seems to mean that we work with the finite limited self-consciousness in order to set up the conversation between the consciousness and the forest. Not set up, but to enact it. And again, I'm going so far as to say that the sense organs are material, and they support the unconscious process and the unconscious process is to a great extent interpretations of the body. So in that case, is the body not the mind and the mind which represents it the mind?

[24:12]

I would say, yes, the body is material and the mind does represent it, and it's not material, but then I would also say the mind which represents the material body is material, and the body, the material body represented by the mind is a type of mind. That they're pivoting on each other. They take turns. And this relationship between body and its representations, and its representations don't seem like a body, but they are. And the body doesn't seem like a mind, but it is. That relationship is the basis for consciousness, which also doesn't seem like a body, but in consciousness there's pictures of bodies which look like bodies. But clearly they're not bodies, but they are.

[25:13]

They really are bodies, but the way they look is not the way the body is. And then the more difficult thing to understand, or to accept I should say, and then after accepting work with it until you understand it, is that the data electromagnetic radiation, mechanical waves, chemicals, gases, and tangibles, that those also are unmind-like versions of the mind. And the mind, which doesn't look like them, is an un-material version of material. So I'm pointing out that everything is pivotal. Everything is a pivot. Everything has pivotality. So if you say it's mind, fine, but it must be pivoting with not mind.

[26:18]

It can't be not mind. I can't be mind without not mind and vice versa. So we're entirely material, and we're entirely mind, and when we're entirely material, we fully realize that we're not material. And when we're fully not material, we realize we are fully material. This pivotality is the conversation which is wisdom. Ellen? I was wondering, you told a story about a woman in one of your workshops or classes who asked, you know, how you knew this or how you could, and you kind of said, well, there's a lot of books I could tell, something like that.

[27:21]

So I was wondering, like, But it really seems like you're speaking from your experience. Yeah, everybody is. And also I'm speaking from my delusion about my experience, too. I just was wondering that. Because... It's not necessarily my experience. I can sort of follow you, but it's not really my experience. I mean, the words I'm saying are not your experience. No, the words you're saying are my experience. The concepts you're teaching are, you know, I wouldn't say I've experienced that. You wouldn't say you experience them. I wouldn't say that.

[28:23]

So when you say you don't experience them, you mean you don't experience them consciously? I don't have an experience of experiencing them now. And so when you say I don't, do you mean the I who is living in consciousness is talking to me? Yeah, some consciousness. So there's a mind where you're there, and then there's this thought, I don't have that experience that I think you're talking about. I'm not aware of it, or I don't... I mean, I'm kind of taking it in, but... You're taking it in, so he... He's talking like this, and then what he says appears in my mind, and then there's this idea that that is not mine. It got into my mind somehow, but I don't see the world that way.

[29:32]

This is a version of the world which has shown up in my mind, and I'm saying, I don't kind of like, that's unfamiliar with me to the point of kind of like, I don't own it. No, I don't think that, it's just unfamiliar. What? Unfamiliar? Oh, unfamiliar. Excuse me for saying what I'm about to say, but it might be good. I would. The Japanese folklore is saying something like, when people in the mountains see fresh fish, they think it's rotten. When people in the mountains see fresh fish, they think it's rotten. because they almost never see fresh fish. So if you would bring them down to the sea and show them fresh fish, it's hard to get fresh fish up to them in the old days because it would take so long. The easier way is they come down from the mountains, they see fresh fish, and it looks rotten because they're used to old fish.

[30:40]

Like, for example, maybe even salted. Maybe they have to salt it to get it up to the mountains. So that's what fish looks like. And then they see these fresh fish with these glistening eyes, with a strong smell, and they think it's rotten. So part of your karma of meeting me is that I'm bringing you stuff which looks unfamiliar. Yeah, that's right. I don't think it's rotten, but I... No, you don't think it's rotten. But you think like, well, what is that? Is it actually a fish? I remember asking, because you made that comment about all the books, I was saying, is this your experience? Is it my experience? Well, my experience is that the stories which I'm telling you are not my experience.

[31:51]

So I believe that my experience is not the stories I'm telling about my experience. But I also believe that telling these stories will liberate me from my limited idea of my experience. And my limited idea of my experience is my self-consciousness. Why do you believe that? I don't know. I could tell a story. I could tell many stories. But each one I would tell, after I tell it, I would say, these days I would say, see the story I just told about why I believe that these teachings will liberate this consciousness? Now I would say, what I just told you is a conversation piece. I don't believe that story. So I have a story that sometimes in consciousness, where I am, sometimes there's fear. I have that story. That's one that maybe not so unfamiliar to you. I have another story which is, if compassion is applied or brought to bear

[33:01]

face to face with that fear, I have the story that things calm down. I also have the story that the compassion doesn't blow the fear away. It just grows a warm joy along with it. That all makes sense, but why are you telling the stories you tell? Well, just now you were talking to me and you asked me about how come I have these things in my mind. So I don't know why I came back with that story in response to your question. But in my consciousness, or in the mind where I heard that question, where I am, I did notice that I came back with an example of a story about the relationship between something in consciousness which you're familiar with, another thing which can appear in consciousness which you're familiar with, compassion, and that I've seen this little drama go on there,

[34:22]

And I like that drama. I like the drama of compassion interacting with fear. But why did I give that example when you asked that question? That, again, I could give you a story about it, but I really... Consciousness does not orchestrate the response that appears in itself to the questions that appear in itself. What appears in my consciousness is because of you and you and you. What you say to me, what you don't say to me, the looks on your faces, they all lead to what appears in my consciousness. But I cannot make you appear the way you do. Like I say, okay, I'm going to try to make Charlie appear as a bear. See, he just helped me, gave me some hints. But I really am not in control with the way you people appear in my consciousness.

[35:26]

But the way you appear calls me. And I'm not in control that you'd call me. And I'm not in control that I believe that you're calling me. But I do believe that. And it seems like that now. That everybody's calling me. Do I forget it? Yes. I'm not in control of remembering that teaching. And I respond. So that's sort of a teaching which has got into my consciousness which I have been more and more feeling like it's really a wonderful story. That everybody that appears in my consciousness is there because I was called and my consciousness responded and my unconsciousness responded and now there's this call and I'm responding and there's different ways of responding and some ways I really think are conducive to peace and freedom from suffering and fear.

[36:29]

And the ones that I think are freeing and conducive to peace are the ones about conversing responsibly with whatever is being brought to my face. And then I hear other teachings about how this little drama opens to other dramas which can never fit in consciousness but which can be facilitated by the drama in consciousness and also will facilitate the drama in consciousness and that conscious drama will facilitate those, and that is a very important relationship to the last class, which is Zen meditation is world transformation. So the way you transform my mind is the way my mind transforms your mind.

[37:37]

So we're working on this little area here. there's the story that the way this gets transformed is exactly the way the world gets transformed, which means all the other clearings and the forest, which means the way you work with your consciousness transforms other people's bodies and their forest and our forest. So the way I work with my consciousness transforms our forest, my forest, your forest, your consciousness, my consciousness. Because again, people think, well, I don't want to just transform my consciousness. I do want to transform my consciousness. I want my consciousness to be at peace and be free of fear. But I don't want to just do that for me. What about other people? Well, because of this teaching, it's the same. Yes? I was just thinking about the soul, not necessarily the Christian soul, maybe the Christian soul, but the person who huddled with it, who had a mother,

[38:58]

You know, this is more like that. And then, so then there's this vast impersonality, which, um, uh, you know, uh, Kieselipo kind of got it, you know, this oceanic impersonality full of sort of these tragic laws of death and, uh, sickness and, uh, and, uh, And when I was thinking about that, to me, whether Einstein or some Berkeley physicist is figuring out whether there's a quantum gate to my body, it's pretty boring, really. I mean, to me, the far more interesting is how they stole the blanket in fear of dissolution. It seems to be a more pressing and urgent concern.

[40:06]

And I don't know if it is for dead, but it's probably... Well, it sounds like when I hear a call from this thing under the blanket, I hear a call for that, for a conversation. Right, it seems like this conversation has to, it's like, it's sort of to get to find the real, what is worth sort of hugging, what is hugging another blanket, it's like, it almost has to come up against, you know, those powerful cosmic in personal courses. So personality and personality. They seem to be sort of closely joined in much the way that they might have been thinking, well, perhaps, like a conversation, versions. So to get to the version of the person, of the selfish, who is to seem to be really tentative about

[41:17]

You have to get to that version of this personality. Well, I hear a call from something very fragile for tenderness. And I think that's really basic, is that in this space you're talking about, there is a fragile being who's afraid of being fragile. But the being is fragile. We're not going to try to change that. And that being may be afraid and is calling for a response. And the response, the first response I want to talk about is tenderness. generously offered to this fragility. And that's like fundamental.

[42:23]

And remembering stillness helps me remember to be tender with this fragility in this consciousness. And that sets up the possibility of opening to the impersonal which is a great resource for the fragile. Without tampering with the fragile, there is liberation. Without getting rid of the fragile, there is liberation. But again, how do I believe that? What has led me to propose that to you? I don't know, but I am Sean? I was wondering if I could give an example, maybe, of the relation of clarity with the forest. I feel connected to what you were just saying, which would be, when I'm meditating, especially in the position of retreating over, I find that there will be something that will come into my consciousness that is

[43:41]

very painful to me that I maybe don't want to face. Grief, resentment, or fear, or these types of things. Okay? Something appears in consciousness, and you notice some... you notice some resistance to meeting wholeheartedly? Yes. You know, it's not something that is happening tomorrow. It might be a bigger event in my life that is coming up. I may be safe in the forest, rising up, coming into the clear right now. Yeah, and right now I feel like that's kind of a deity. that's coming and saying, can you be kind to me? And you kind of say, oh, no thanks. And then you notice, oh, yeah, I want to be compassionate, but this particular visitor is showing me that I'm struggling with being really welcoming of this

[44:49]

visitor who has come to show me the limits of my compassion. Thank you for showing that to me. I still feel the limits, but I also almost feel gratitude to you for showing me where I need to work, or where I... showing me my responsibility. Could you say a little bit more about how to cultivate that I don't know why this is happening, but what often pops in my mind is that when this visitor comes and I notice, I don't really feel like welcoming you, then what pops in my mind is, maybe, well, yeah, I just missed an opportunity to practice generosity. Because of my history or whatever i've heard because of my history i've heard that because of my history i resist welcoming this person in other words because of my past consciousnesses when this person shows up in a way that i didn't make him show up but he's showing up i am not being generous towards him

[46:13]

And so because of my past history, my past karma, I'm not practicing compassion towards this thing in my mind, in my conscious mind. So what I do then is I reveal that shortcoming to the Buddhas. Now, if I could right away bring compassion to that to that resistance, you know, maybe I wouldn't even have time to reveal the shortcoming because the compassion is already there. But maybe I can't figure out how to be compassionate to this thing, so I say to compassion, I say, compassion, I don't know how to do it and I'm sorry, and then compassion shows me. And that process will melt away the transgressing away from compassion to these visitors. Every visitor comes that I don't practice compassion with.

[47:20]

If I say, oh, that wasn't compassionate and I'm sorry, that's one more, excuse the expression, one more nail in the coffin of not being compassionate. That's one more step towards melting away the root of turning away from visitors in consciousness. which then transforms the forest into being a place that's going to support more consciousnesses that don't turn away from kindness when difficult visitors come. But every time I am not kind, there's a possibility of saying, I wasn't kind and I'm sorry. Or I felt like I couldn't be kind, but I'm sorry. And if I can't welcome that confession and that sorrow, then I say, whoever can, please come and witness this.

[48:24]

Help me with my shortcomings and my compassion towards what's showing up in my mind. So it isn't me that you know, melts away, the root of veering away from dealing with what's in consciousness in the liberating way. It's the practice of confessing veering away and feeling sorry about it. And also in the presence of compassion, not in an empty space, but in a compassionate space. And the compassion is my idea of compassion and also compassion beyond my idea of compassion. It's not mine. It's not not mine. It's infinite. Okay? I don't know who is next. Nancy? I didn't come in thinking about this experience that I had this last week, but We were sharing and talking about immaterials and materials.

[49:32]

I had this experience where I was watching a movie and the movie ended and It's about Sunday afternoon, and this person came into my life, who was a hundred years old, and she was very close to dying. So she appeared in your consciousness? She appeared in my consciousness. So I immediately went upstairs to her room and then signed the door because she had been moved to a convalescent, which happened to be just around the corner. So I put on my jacket, went over there, and that's where she was. I went into her room, and she was in a fusible bed. She was, like, propped up, like, sitting up. And she had a little towel tied around her head, a little white towel. just kind of went in and was just being with her.

[50:37]

And I put my hand on her forehead and she felt very cool. And then I tried to see if I could get a heartbeat or feel a pulse. I thought, she's alive. I went to the nursing station and they said, are you a family member? I said, I wasn't. So they said, well, we can't say anything to you. So I just went back to the room and I was just sitting there with her. And then these two other people from where I came in, they said, oh, you're here. I'm surprised to see you here. They said, do you know she's dead? I didn't really know, but I could feel a calling to go. It was so strong. And this woman was the most iconic 100-year-old person I have ever known. She got a proclamation from the city of Berkeley for being such an upstanding person, always demonstrating her peace and social justice and all that.

[51:51]

But I just thought it was so mysterious that I felt this urge to go to Peru, and immediately ran over to where she was. And then I ended up staying there. Her daughter lives in New Jersey, so I was there for about three hours. Well, they had the chaplain came, and they had to negotiate with the body. But I didn't feel any fear at all. I've been with two other people who died. Only two. Okay. At the time, the guy on the other side was . But the movie I had been watching was about this very strong, a much more kind doctor in Scotland. And at the end of the movie, the artist did this on the last week. And they're carrying out this casket and the dogs walk. Anyway, it was just so interesting. This was the movie I was watching at the end. I've already actually had this casket. Anyway, so that, so bringing scope to what you said, I didn't come here thinking about that.

[53:02]

But I did feel the calling to share it and to have a conversation about it, because it was so mysterious that to just have this calling to go see her, you know, and so it was mysterious and amazing. Yeah, and to respond to the call in a way that you could tell you were responding You felt a call and you felt a response and you acted out that response. And this is a finite story you're telling us, which we all can kind of understand. And as we enact these stories, these conversations, fully, we open to something which is mysterious, which is infinite.

[54:07]

which is also right there. And it was there before you left your room. It was there when you were watching the movie. I had my eye burning. My eye was burning. What's wrong with my eye? So that was part of the mystery. That was a kind of surprising call. So that's maybe like sometimes, again, sometimes the deities come out of the forest and do something a little unusual to wake us up to the conversation. So in your story you've got this little burning in the eye that stimulated you to realize you were being called. The burning, you responded to the burning, oh, I'm burning. You started to enact this conversation which is your life. And then you did it, and you did it, and moment by moment you were responding to a situation that you didn't expect to be called in this way, you didn't expect to respond in this way, but you were, and you knew it.

[55:20]

And this way opens you to something that's more than what you know about. The more we participate in the conversation in a finite way, the more we realize that there's another conversation that's going on, which we don't know anything about really. And yet, it's totally there while we're having this little conversation. And your story is kind of easier than some to realize that there was a bigger conversation going on. than what is normally familiar in your limited consciousness. And the other thing is the movie ended at 3.10 and they said that's when she passed away. Yeah. Yeah. And she called for, did she call for the movie to stop at that time? Yes and yes.

[56:25]

When you were talking earlier about the body-mind and the storage of data and the sense aspect, the material, self, body, mind... Can I add, not just the storage of data in the body, but also the interaction between the body, which is sense organs, and data? So the body stores data, but also the body is playing with data. Yeah, and so I think, and I wanted to converse about it, that that sometimes is what we identify as mystery because it is in in the conscious mind. So it's an activity of the self, and even of the self in the clearing, which is the self that's actively participating in the life of the self.

[57:47]

And then things arise. And that's why it started to formulate my mind when She was talking earlier about that you had mentioned books you read, because I think that what we know and what arises, and you don't know why that story comes out then, is partly that that's the depth we're interacting with, even if we're not aware that we read these books about cognitive science or spirituality or whatever. fiction, whatever it is, and that's part of the resonant story that comes forth in the consciousness when we're reflecting. And I just wanted to simplify my understanding of what you meant about the body-mind.

[58:52]

Be right with you. so when I was talking about this the person had a sense that there's something about my history that maybe I read some Buddhist material which is part of my background which leads me to have this view of mind and that person could then go find those books and read those books and then they would go that experience of working with those material would be another way for them to have a conversation with me and you're talking to me is another way to have a conversation with Ellen. So, yeah, this is all exploring, you know? You're exploring the images of your body and the images of your mind which makes images of your body, you're exploring that with your conscious mind, and your exploration transforms your unconscious, which is mysterious from the point of view of consciousness, but also your body's mysterious from the point of view of consciousness.

[60:06]

And it's also mysterious how my consciousness is supported by my body interacting with this unconscious process. And how my consciousness is supported by my body interacting with your body and our shared data. It's very... It's worthy of conversational exploration. Yes. Yes. I have a question, and I thought I had a confession first, but I realized because there's no repentance, probably not a confession. It's more an acknowledgement. There can be confession before you feel the sorrow. I don't know if there's any sorrow. It's just one of... Okay. It's Tuesday. Okay. Well, I was back East for the weekend and spent time with the old friends, and during the weekend I ended up seeming like just the wisest, coolest person.

[61:18]

We had all these deep talks. Did that appear in your consciousness? Yeah, they all said it. And everybody in your consciousness? A general celebration. Now it's my relationship with you. And one thing I said that I'm very present to is that most of the time, I don't understand what you're talking about. Most of all these years. And including tonight, I don't understand very little what you're talking about. And yet, here I ended up seeming I mean, it's like, I appreciated it tonight. You said you accept, and then you work with, and then you understand. So I appreciated that you laid a little path out. And I guess I think I've just been accepting a lot of stuff all the time. I don't even know if I work with it very much. And then I guess there's little poofs where there are little pools that I do understand.

[62:19]

So that's the not confession analogy. Do you have a comment? Yeah. Which comment do you want? So I think you are offering a nice example to the community of someone who remembers stillness, in the face of lack of complete certitude that you don't run out of the room when you're not sure what's going on. You've learned to accept the appearance of not understanding without getting too agitated about it. And then confessing, but not necessarily feeling sorry,

[63:19]

but you might confess that you didn't accept the lack of service to it and started hating me, but you don't do that very often. So when I do things that put unfamiliar material in people's minds, they often think, well, I don't understand it. But that's part of what I'm being invited to do is to come to Berkeley and to say things so that unfamiliar things appear in your mind and you can see, can you welcome these unfamiliar things which sometimes are scary. Some people think I shouldn't be spending too much time without knowing what's going on. I'm not supposed to be like that for very long. But maybe for 15 or 20 minutes on Tuesday nights. 15, 20 years. Yeah.

[64:26]

But maybe not all day long. But all day long would be something to work up to. that all day long you're able to not be completely sure and have confidence in that and be generous and patient and careful with that and remember stillness with that. And that's not the only difficult thing, but that's a major difficult thing, is not knowing what's going on. Because infinity is not something we know what's going on. But it's right there, completely surrounding our consciousness, is infinity. It has a lot to teach us if we can stay still, remember stillness, and welcome it, welcome it. You can come.

[65:28]

I'm feeling a little, some goosebumps or something, I'm feeling a little scared, but you're welcome. And my uncertainty helps me be ready to welcome something even more uncertain than I've ever been uncertain about. So you're encouraging all the other people by repeatedly acknowledging that you don't fully understand or you're not certain of what's going on. That encourages other people to probably feel that way too. In a way, Ellen was kind of saying that. Right? Okay, now I'm going to ask my question. That was... Yeah. It was the last week, and I got stopped in the tracks, and I wanted to ask you last week, and we didn't have time, and I may have remembered it a little bit wrong, but it was a searing question. And I think you said something like that, when you die, my finite mind stops.

[66:36]

When my body dies, my finite mind stops. And you said, but my infinite mind, and I don't even remember what the last word was. Do that, because I got hooked on a question you said, my infinite mind, blah, blah, blah. And I'm wondering, what makes it mine at that point? You mean M-Y? Once you're dead, why is it my infinite mind? It never really was M-Y, mind. Right. But my life is an infinite mind that's not mine. and a finite mind that's not mine, but it's called mine. So I am actually not... So my consciousness that has a me in it is included in the consciousness in the mind. The consciousness which has me in it is totally included

[67:41]

in a mind which has me in it as me in this limited... So the limited consciousness which has me in it is in an unlimited mind which has a limited consciousness with a limited me. That's what I'm saying. All that seems fine. It's when the mind gets in there... Well, this is another, what I call it, deity visiting your consciousness, seeing if you can welcome my because there's language in that consciousness and it appears as an I and a mind and so that's part of what is in that consciousness. And there's some confusion about this self and the idea of There's a sense of self and there's an idea of possession and it seems like the self owns some of the stuff in the consciousness or even owns the whole consciousness. This is part of the way consciousness is.

[68:43]

There's some confusion about the I and the self. But this can be worked out. If we're compassionately in conversation we can notice that there can be a sense of self without self owning what's in there. Even though the sense of ownership, if it's let go of, the sense of self becomes even more fragile. Because usually the self is upheld by ownership of some of the stuff that it cohabits. And so if we would say, well, there's a sense of self here and there's all this stuff, but maybe it's not, the ownership idea doesn't necessarily apply. This lake opens to the fragility and if we can be kind to that more fragile self, then we are working towards becoming free of the confusion of that self and being trapped in this clearing and not realizing how the clearing is including all the other clearings and included in all the other clearings.

[69:47]

And also doing the exercise of meditating on this interpenetration also will help not be so tight around the I that's in the consciousness. Meantime we're surrounded by mind which includes all this and which we can open to and be educated by and transmit the wisdom mind. Yes? Earlier, when we were talking about listening to whatever we're called, whoever we're called, I was thinking that you engaged in this lifelong practice and various conditions that I can't name that make us want to listen to your stories. But I don't want to listen to a lot of different people's stories or

[70:53]

deities, I want to listen to a lot of them, even though I'm hearing from you that it would be lovely if I could. This is a joke that I popped into my head later, the line from the song Old Man River, where it says, I get weary and sick of trying. Do you remember? Yeah. If you feel weary and sick of trying, do you keep on trying? Well, there's different responses, different forms of compassion can respond from the sick of trying. Sick of trying to listen, for example.

[71:58]

Sick of trying to welcome. So one response to sick of trying to welcome whoever's coming to visit, whoever's calling me, one response is enthusiastically rest. As a practice of compassion. Like, I notice I'm starting to tense up and close down to listening to your call. I think I need a rest. So just give me five minutes, I'll be back. I'm going to go rest now and I'll come back. That's one response, which is a compassionate activity of generating the spiritual energy and the spiritual aspiration to listen to this call, which I just feel like it's just too much now. But it's because I'm tired. Yeah, I know. If bodhisattvas are not responding to... This is one story, okay?

[73:01]

If bodhisattvas are not responding to the call because they're tired, it's not such a difficult situation. It's okay to rest and then come back. If bodhisattvas are not responding to the call because they actually don't like this person and they have plenty of energy, then it's a more serious problem. So it's not so necessary to call for help when you're tired and you just need a break to listen to the call. It's not, you know, help! I'm not responding to this person's call because I need a rest. I think the bodhisattvas might say, it's okay, go ahead, rest. But if you don't want to because you feel spiteful towards the person, Now you have to call for the great compassion to come and listen to you say, I don't want to talk to that person and then see if you feel sorry.

[74:08]

And if you do, that's the compassionate response. That's how they're listening to you. So you're hearing yourself. Your unwillingness to listen to this call is calling to you for compassion. And if you can't do it, then you have to say, okay, I confess I'm not being compassionate in this case. I do not want to listen to this person anymore. And it's not because I'm tired. And it's not because I'm sick. It's because I actually don't like them. That I need help. I needed help to like, okay, I'm not feeling compassionate. I don't want to listen to that person and I'm sorry. That is exactly the thing to do at that time and that's the best you can do. And also ask to be witnessed by those who are totally there to support you to learn to do this.

[75:10]

And I see many people's head nodding, so I think you all understand very well. So let's keep working on this, shall we? It would be really great if we did. And this is working on you and your relationship with this person. But part of the story here is that that transforms everybody else at the same time. At the very moment you do that, I get changed in the same way. So it's not just for yourself becoming more compassionate towards your lack of compassion. It helps me too. It helps everybody. And that's hard to understand. But that's what I'm saying. Believe it or not. I have to, like, shit.

[76:30]

Want to record it also? And the recording? Okay.

[76:35]

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