My fineness can fit into spacelessness. Sounds like it's something that's fairly serious that it couldn't be looked at. I don't know, it just sounds really bad. And I feel like driving out on the freeway in the middle of the night might be a little too daring. Is there a tape from last week's class? Yeah. Okay. Well, I might just do a very brief review because there's some new people here this week. And one way I would typify what we discussed last week was that I said the renunciation is the key to wisdom and compassion, or the mode of entry into the practice of wisdom and compassion, and also the mode of revelation

[01:30]

of wisdom and compassion. It's also the price of admission to wisdom and compassion. And renunciation has many dimensions which we will have a chance to look at some of them during these eight weeks. What I brought up is that renunciation is to let go of anything. Well, I was going to say anything that distracts us from what is happening. But it's really not really that things distract us from what's happening. But it's rather that we let go of any kind of seeking in the midst of what's happening. that would take us away from what's happening.

[02:33]

It's not actually like, for example, the people in the room aren't really taking us away from what's happening, but anything other than this, then that seeking takes us away. So it's to let go of seeking anything other than what's happening. Because if we seek anything other than what's happening, then we get taken away from what's happening. We spoke about renunciation as being presence. Being present, and it's also that, or this presence, I think I'd say this week to bring up sort of the other side of the situation is if we're not distracting ourselves from what's happening and we're present the dimension of renunciation is that

[04:03]

being present with what's happening now we we do not grasp what is happening so first of all we don't distract ourselves from what's happening and now we're meeting what's happening and now we don't even grasp what's happening giving up any impulses to go away from what's arising, what's coming to us. Giving up any impulse to go away from what's given to us in this moment. Now, greeting what's given to us. Then we, in a sense, take a step further into the practice, but not even grasping what's given. First of all, we don't take what's given. Excuse me, first of all, we don't take what's not given. We receive only what's given.

[05:09]

And second of all, we don't grasp what's given. We acknowledge receipt of the delivery, but then don't become possessive of it. So these two dimensions of renunciation could be called, first of all, non-seeking, and the second one, non-grasping. not seeking anything else from what's happening, and then not even grasping what's happening. And combining these aspects of renunciation of not seeing and not grasping anything, one of the ways that I speak of that when they're united is that we're present with what's happening in the moment with complete relaxation.

[06:38]

We're really relaxed. We're not into anything else than this. And we don't tense up with this. We don't grip this. We're present. We're meeting it. We're not the least bit distracted from it. We're giving up every kind of distraction and distance from our experience. Distancing from our experience. Running away from our experience. We're giving up that. We're renouncing that. And now even our experience we don't grasp. We're really relaxed. And yet we're not asleep. We're meaning what's happening. Receiving it moment by moment. Acknowledging it. being intimate with it. And being intimate means not running away from it, but also not possessing it.

[07:54]

There's many practical applications or many virtues of such practice. But the main virtue of the practice is that it helps us practice virtues. And in particular, it helps us be able to practice compassion. How? Well, first of all, Compassion is, it involves anyway, it involves being aware of my own suffering, my own pain, my own and through that awareness I also can come to notice that other people are more or less uncomfortable too.

[09:18]

That's part of compassion. Feeling my own suffering and having some empathy for others' suffering. And the next unfoldment to mention would be that I actually, it occurs to me, that I would like actually to be free of suffering myself and I would like to be free of suffering. I would like to be comfortable, and I would like others to be as comfortable as possible. And I have a feeling, maybe, that it's possible to be really comfortable, be really comfortable. The next phase is I would like to actually not just wish that, but work for that. work to help myself and others become free of suffering and further to understand that it would be it is most helpful to work for other people's suffering i mean work for other people's freedom from suffering even before my own even though it's not possible i would like

[10:39]

So what the bodhisattva would like to do, a person who is on the path to becoming a Buddha, is to have the most pure and effective or fully realized compassion. This person would like to join hands with all beings and walk with them through birth and death and birth and death. The Bodhisattva doesn't actually, and the Buddha doesn't also, they don't like go over to people and, you know, do something to them so that they're free of suffering, as they just join hands with them and walk through birth and death. They may sometimes give talks or administer medicines or other kinds of therapies.

[11:55]

But these ways of being are really ways to be with people. It's not what they do to people that's helpful. It's them being together with people that's helpful. It's not what they know or what they give. or what the other person knows or doesn't. It's their being together. It's actually being together that saves beings. And being together with the wish that all these beings would be happy, but also with no grasping of the beings that you're holding hands with. No grasping and also no seeking of anything else other than the hand you have that you're holding right now. And being with beings, holding their hands with them just as they are, not wishing they were, not seeking another hand or another state of development other than the one you've got, including the way you are, and not even grasping this person

[13:14]

yourself this is renunciation and see and it is this way of being with the person that saves beings this intimacy this is this this intimacy is the pure compassion the fully functioning compassion it is some of course to feel suffering notice other people are suffering want them to be free and then try to do something to help them be free of suffering that is also part of compassion however it is impure it's impure because it does not it is not conjoined wisdom which is you let go of all your views and one of the views you let go of is that this person whose hand you're holding is somebody other than you you may have that view but you don't grasp it don't seek another view like for example the view that they're not different from you you don't seek that one if you got the view that they're different you just accept i think i'm different from you

[14:32]

I don't seek to have a different understanding, even though that's not correct. And also, I don't grasp this other person. I hold hands without grasping. I walk into, you know, death and birth. I walk into sickness. We walk into wealth and poverty, whatever is coming up, we go there together. We walk together through this stuff until everybody's free. That's the idea of the bodhisattva. The bodhisattva vows to do. And how can the bodhisattva do that? Because of renunciation, the bodhisattva can live that way with people. Because the bodhisattva is not clinging to anything, not clinging to her own views, not clinging to her own views, but recognizing her views, listening to her views, listening to her opinions, and listening to other people's opinions.

[15:48]

That's another way to talk about what it's like to hold hands with people, is you listen to them. While you're holding hands... But you don't grasp what they're saying, and you don't grasp what you're saying, and you don't seek something other than what they're saying or something other than what you're saying. So in order to be participating in the function of being close to beings, and it's the closeness that saves the beings, the bodhisattva practice of renunciation and that you're in this place there's this compassion which is purified of this clinging which is purified of views of what would be helpful so that what can be helpful can happen because nobody's resisting what might be helpful resisting the idea

[17:01]

of what's helpful that they're holding to. Now of course we're living in this world where we have ideas of what's helpful and in some sense those ideas might be right. It's not that they're necessarily wrong, it's just that if we grasp them there is an obstruction to the function a good thing. And one other thing I thought I might say is that the not seeking is like what we call no birth. and not grasp is what we call no death. You may not have heard about this, but Buddhism talks about no birth and no death.

[18:09]

That's kind of like an epithet for nirvana. Nirvana is freedom from suffering. Nirvana's freedom from suffering and freedom from happiness also. It's freedom from everything. And sometimes we say it's called no birth and no death. That's called another way Nirvana is talked about. Because in Nirvana, there's no death. So, the practice of not seeking and not clinging is Nirvana. It's the... And the giving ourselves over to that practice is entering nirvana. In nirvana, they walk out of no birth and no death and into birth and death because they want to be a Buddha so they can really help people.

[19:14]

And you have to walk through birth and death to get to be a Buddha. You can't become a Buddha in nirvana. However, bodhisattvas use nirvana They use no birth and no death so that they can walk through birth and death. If you don't have birth and death and you're walking through birth and death, you sometimes get real, well, scared of birth and death. You tense up unless you've got no birth, sort of somewhat realized. And the way you realize, the way it's realized, one way to realize it is as you walk through birth and death, you walk through with no grasping and no seeking. So you've got no birth and death with you as you walk through birth and death. And also, as you walk through people, you've got the not grasping at their other to help you help them. Because you can't really help them if you think their other. I shouldn't say not if you think their other. It's okay to think their other, but if you're holding at their other, you can't save them from suffering.

[20:19]

You can be a friend and you can Give them money and medicine and food and change their diapers and pay their school tuition and give them rides to Marin. But you can't save them if you think they're other. Again, you can think they're other. Save them if you believe they're other, if you grasp that. So in order to save beings, bodhisattvas have to understand there aren't any other beings. It's not that there's no beings, there's no other beings. We're not separate from each other. So renunciation is a way to... As long as we think we're separate, and that may be quite a while that we keep looking like they're out there, As long as we think that, we need to, like, not grasp that. Be relaxed with this sense of, that person is not me.

[21:25]

That person's out there independent of me. If it looks like that, we need to, like, relax with that completely. And if we do, then we can do this great thing of walking hand in hand through birth and death with beings. And the intimacy that develops will save us all. Kind of two by two. Maybe that's enough for starters. Is it? Do you have any questions to bring up about what I've introduced now so far? Yes, Kate? Why can't you be a Buddha without becoming a Buddha?

[22:30]

Why do you make this distinction between no birth, no death state, and birth and death state to become a Buddha? Because what Buddha is, basically what Buddha is, is all sentient beings. And it's intimacy with all living beings. It's intimacy with all the beings who are suffering. Not with the ones who aren't? Well, the Buddhas are also intimate with the other Buddhas, too. But that's not enough. They can't just be intimate with each other because what each one of them has is intimacy with all the suffering people, all the people who don't yet understand what the Buddhas understand are somewhat suffering because of that lack of understanding.

[23:34]

And the Buddhas understand that they're not at all separate from that. It's possible for Buddhas to hang out in a situation where there's no birth and death. They can hang out there, but they don't, by their nature. It's possible for some spiritual beings to hang out in a space of nirvana and just stay there for a while. But you can't come into the world of beings who do not know much about nirvana. who are mostly into birth and death, and not only that, but most people are not even into birth and death, most people are into evading birth and death, about seeking something other than birth and death, which exactly cranks the birth and death. Is try to get out of birth and death, and you crank one more birth and death around. So most, many, many, many beings are trying to get out of the suffering of impermanence and birth and death. And these beings also think that birth and death is something other than them.

[24:41]

Thinking that other beings are other than you, believing that creates a sense of birth and death. Creates a sense of, if I think you're other than me, then I feel like an isolated individual. And isolated individuals, because you're thinking that, you get into dying. You attach your finitude, and that creates finitude. So we're not talking about eliminating that. Buddhas don't eliminate it. They are nothing but intimate with it. And on your way to becoming a Buddha, intimate with what buddhas are already intimate with what is already completely intimate with suffering beings they are none other than suffering beings there's no like buddhas separate from suffering beings that's what a buddha is so they must be they their blood is birth and death but they also in time but they don't stay in nirvana and they don't prefer nirvana and they don't prefer birth and death

[25:46]

They don't prefer suffering beings over Buddhas. They have no preference. And as a result, they naturally plunge into the life of all beings, which is their life. Bodhisattvas, how to be that intimate with beings, are in a training period. They're in a period of learning to be a Buddha, which takes quite a long time. And they have no problem with that because they enjoy learning. and they enjoy being with other people who are learning by being with them. So it's a process of learning and being with other beings intimately and then learning together. And the renunciation facilitates the learning. And then we're all going together on the path to becoming perfectly With all beings, all suffering beings, and helping all suffering beings learn how to be free of suffering.

[26:49]

So Buddhas, and many of the virtues, for example, patience, Buddhas, you can't have a Buddha without patience, and you can't have patience if you're totally comfortable. And so there's no shortage of discomfort, so you can practice patience. But you can't develop patience without being challenged. And you can't be a Buddha without being challenged. If you're challenged, no problem, you're all set. If you're not challenged, then you got a problem. Because, yeah, it's got a problem. Because you can't grow unless you're challenged. And the renunciation is a way to deal with the challenges. You've got to relax with these challenges. We've already got enough problems, and if a challenge comes and you tense up, then you're going to have less, what do you call it, the learning will not go along as well.

[27:59]

We learn best when we're relaxed. But we don't learn Something we already know so we're relaxing with the difficulty of something. We don't know Like I just thought because my mind of some experiments I heard about word dolphins teaching dolphins things, you know Dolphins like to learn too and when they're trying to learn they actually seem to you know, I Looking at them, maybe it's projection, but anyway, with dolphins, maybe it's okay, because they're so smart, but they look like they're really getting it. They do these lessons over and over and don't get it. And then when they get it, they look really happy. So somewhere along the way, they probably do the thing over enough times and relax, and then they learn. And it is possible to learn when you're tense sometimes.

[29:00]

Tension is good, because a little bit of tension means you're working with it. You don't know it yet. Some kind of little problem there, a little puzzle. But then we have to relax with that. So to try to develop Buddha's wisdom and compassion without... Our chances of getting into that space of where we feel compassion and where compassion is joined to wisdom, wisdom which understands there's nothing to grasp, even in the practice of compassion. And the people we're trying to help, they're not out there. This wisdom which purifies us. To get into that place, we need renunciation to get in there. Charles? I think they can be... But the way they're bodhisattvas is maybe different from the way humans are bodhisattvas.

[30:06]

So in the history of Buddha's life story, he was animal in previous lives. But he was a very kind animal in the stories. Now, how seriously you take those Buddha... Did I tell the story of the rabbit here last week? No? So in one story, Buddha was a rabbit. And there was this sage walking through his area. And he wanted to help the sage. The various other animals were trying to make offerings to the sage to help him on his path to wherever he was going. His sage path. So his rabbit didn't have anything to give. So what the rabbit did was the rabbit dove in the sage's campfire and barbecued herself with great joy. And that's why we now have a rabbit in the moon. In Asia, they have rabbits instead of an old man.

[31:10]

Do you see the rabbit? That's the Buddhist story about how the rabbit got up there. He got a little promotion because of that. There's a little kind of advertisement for the coming of Buddha, that rabbit, that told the world that the great Bodhisattva is growing up here in this world, a being who just gives himself away to help other beings. So there can be this Bodhisattva spirit of selflessness in animals. But we have challenges that animals don't have which help us overcome problems that animals have. For example, we have language which challenges us, but also language is a medium by which the teaching about how to become free of language comes to us. Language causes us problems that animals don't have, like social security numbers.

[32:19]

and you know check signatures and charge cards and things like that that we get really nervous about because we have language but that also gives us challenges to get at the root delusions that animals have and they can but they can work at it by being selfless that's a story But we have trouble giving certain kinds of teachings to dolphins. We haven't been able to develop, you know, some way to like, there's some ways you can share compassion with dolphins and they can understand probably, but it's hard, it may be hard to teach a dolphin how to not be selfish if they're being selfish. It's hard to teach that kind of thing if you don't have language. It's hard.

[33:21]

Renee? Right. Right. It's possible. It's possible that they're way beyond this, but it's also possible that they haven't yet got the problems that we've got. See, part of what I'm suggesting to you is that what makes a Buddha is that a Buddha hangs out with the most deluded of all beings. If humans aren't the most deluded, okay.

[34:23]

Fine. Tell me who's more deluded. And then I'll tell you the Buddha hangs out with that person. Do dolphins take on our hang-ups? I don't think they do. But if they do, if they used to be humans and now they're beyond it, maybe so. But to tell you the truth, I don't think so. I told you before, there are some beings who are out there, you know, in no birth and death land. Maybe dolphins are like that. Maybe they're like sages. Because to be Buddhist, you have to come in and hang out with these kinds of creatures. And not just these kinds in this class, but some people who aren't in this class. People think it's stupid to be compassionate. That you're a fool to be compassionate. Or who are cynical and think, you know, they're... It's just a sham, you know? It's just all self-serving. Nobody really cares about anything.

[35:27]

Dolphins can't think like that, as far as I know. Right, but can they be cynical? Yeah. So, do they... Do they come and interact intimately with cynical beings? If they do, good. So I'm just saying, dolphins may be happier than us, and for us to be like dolphins would be maybe liberation. But are dolphins Buddhas? I think a Buddha is somebody who's got the full problems. You know, they really have language, and all the problems come with that. Hmm? What? Yeah. Right. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[36:41]

...that are here as their gift to us and to show us that we need to be. Oh, sure. Or like... Right. Definitely. Like children and redwood trees. They all can teach us. Children can show us a great deal about play, about openness, about all kinds of amazing things that they will, if they live longer... lose usually so many beings can teach us but just I'm proposing to you they themselves although they teach us they themselves are not challenged by the delusions that we that they're helping us work with and if they aren't challenged by those illusions they cannot grow they have to get more I'm a Buddha. But you can learn from redwood trees, they can teach you a lot, but a redwood tree is not challenging and is not challenged the way a human being is.

[37:54]

They don't challenge you, you're not afraid of them, and they're not afraid of you. But the Buddha, the Bodhisattva, has to go into the realm of fear, and trees don't go into the realm of fear as far as I know. How are you doing, Renee? No, it's okay. Just a little bit. Right. Right. So the plants are afraid? Okay. And are the dolphins afraid? Hey, if they're afraid, fine.

[39:00]

The more, the better. The worse, the better. Because the more problems they got, the closer they are to Buddha. Because Buddha's got like all their problems and a whole bunch of other problems that they haven't heard about yet. Buddha is like, you know, if you tell me about somebody, fine, I say they can't be a Buddha. If you tell me about people that do have problems, then Buddha is with that person or that being. So beings that don't have problems, good for them, but Buddha's got any problem that there is, Buddhas are intimate with that problem. And beings, generally speaking, are trying to get away from problems. They are seeking something other than the problems they're in. And this, because we have the ability to seek in ways that... Maybe redwood trees can seek to some extent. But we can seek in all the ways they can seek, I think, plus a whole bunch of other ways.

[40:06]

We have more power of delusion than any other animal that I've heard of so far. And therefore, because of that challenge, we can have you know the bigger the challenge the awakening and human beings are so challenged that in some ways that in some ways they're the least present of all the animals they have the most equipment to run away from they have the most kinds of addictions to get away from their life than that we can see in any other animal maybe other animals ways that they get away from their life but i don't see it so much They don't seem to be so neurotic about their suffering. They do suffer, but they're not quite as thoroughly and vividly and complexly neurotic as humans. That is what we call gods in the Buddhist teaching. It's like the god realm. And the god realms do not have the problems that humans have, and therefore you have to give up the god realm and come into the human realm to really hear the teaching.

[41:14]

And the problem with being animals is that it's hard for you to hear the teaching because the teaching is specifically geared for the human realm. But it doesn't mean you can't learn from all beings. You can. And it doesn't mean that some beings might be more advanced than humans. There are gods who are in some ways superior to humans. But they have to come down and have no superiority to humans in order to hear the Buddha's teaching. The human realm is very challenging, but it's optimally challenging. It's the best way of... And... Anyway. Yes, Michael? Pardon? All the experiments that I consider being out there, Right.

[42:41]

The other animals are not out there either, right? And I would propose to you that, again, it seems to me that humans have the most deepest belief that other humans and other animals and plants are out there more than they... I don't think, again, that redwood trees think that the other redwood trees are out there. Humans are out there. But we can think people are out there. We can think our own feelings are out there. We actually think what's going on in our head is out there. And we have, you know, we really are into that. More so, as far as I can tell, than any of our fellow beings. But they aren't out there either. They're totally part of what we are. Sure.

[43:43]

Anything... Yes. Wisdom resolves this out there thing. Wisdom shows... wisdom realizes that things are not out there separate. Like not grasping suffering is the exercise that enters into the actual understanding that there's nothing to grasp. So you practice not grasping while you still think there's something to grasp. While it still looks like you can grasp people, renunciation of letting go of that grasping impulse that helps you enter into the practice of wisdom where you don't even where you understand there is nothing to grasp so when you have wisdom you don't have to like practice renunciation anymore because you don't even you can't even you just can't can't come up with that there's something out there to grasp so you're grasping just like doesn't it doesn't it loses its function it's the

[45:08]

You know, it's denatured or it's defunct or it's gone. Even though you might still see beings, they're not out there. So while you still think that I'm separate from you, don't grasp me. While you think health is still separate from you, don't seek it. So these practices of pronunciation, we gradually settle into wisdom. When we have wisdom... then renunciation is not really necessary. And then our compassion is completely unleashed from all kinds of clinging and seeking and otherness and selfness. Redwood trees and grass and all humans and other animals And that intimacy is the actual practice of the purified wisdom, or the compassion, or the purified compassion, or the wisdom which is completely integrated with compassion.

[46:23]

Lissy? Yes? Would I say it's easier? Well, it does seem simpler in a lot of ways, yeah. To be in a monastic environment does seem simpler. Whereas when you walk into work or something, they don't necessarily say, Lucy, renunciation. And if you start clinging to your paycheck, they say, well, that's fine. They don't say, well, what are you getting so tense about your paycheck? Aren't you a bodhisattva? I'll hold it for you. I'll hold it for you. Come on, hand it over. Lucy, come on, give me the money. Yeah, I remove my suffering by showing me what renunciation is.

[47:34]

relieve my suffering by showing me how you can that non-attachment to a nice page like because like i'm totally holding mine so if you give me yours then i could see what you know real renunciation is so please teach me but they don't say that to you at work because you don't know what you'll do you know say well that's the last time i'm gonna talk to you The nice thing about monastery is supposedly everybody is gently helping each other to be totally non-grasping and non-seeking. But they're totally grasping and seeking all over the place in the monastery. It's just that they're more embarrassed about it than most people. They pat each other on the back and say, it's okay, we know, you know, it's all right. It's all right that you're seeking and grasping, you know. that they do keep talking about it all the time. They do sort of bring up, are you attached to that?

[48:36]

And the person says, yes. But they're talking about that. So that, in some sense, is easier to be in a situation where that's reinforcing your, you know, your practice of relaxing with everything. You're encouraging yourself and others to relax with everything. But there's plenty of stuff in the monastery. There's plenty of work to relax with. The monastery has buildings and meals and schedules and bells. All kinds of things to get attached to. But the point in the monastery is, if anybody gets attached to something, they come and they take it away. Are you attached to that? Can I have it back, please? And it's something that doesn't really matter anyway. blanket or something like that or a meditation cushion or some nice piece of cloth see it's not really a big deal whereas people people can't come in you say okay hand me your give me your kids wait no no you can't have my kids so they don't ask you because they think you know you know it's ridiculous i think it's ridiculous but if you're in a monastery and you get a nice little meditation cushion cushion and it's got a nice nice view of the wall

[49:49]

You know, the wall's real smooth there, and it's got nice neighbors, you know, nice meditators that, you know, aren't too good. They make you feel, you know, they make you feel good, and they kind of encourage you, but they aren't that encouraging. So it's really a nice seat. And then they say, would you please give that seat up and move over here? No, I don't want to move. People get really upset about moving their seats. They really do. And we don't move it just because. Move it for other reasons, but then we just happen to notice that the person doesn't want to move. And they get the notice too. And if they don't, it can be sort of gently pointed out to them that they aren't moving. You're actually holding on to your seat. And the person knows they didn't go to the monastery to get a meditation seat and hold on to it. They went to the monastery to give up everything, and now here they are holding on to meditation Christians.

[50:52]

I like to tell the story about this one time when the road was washed out, so we didn't have food coming in for quite a long time. We had food, but the food got very, very simple. brown rice, pretty soon no... and no gomashio, no sesame seed seasoning. They started to make... I shouldn't say no, there was salt, and they started mixing the salt with yeast or something. Anyway, and we had wheat berries, and no vegetables, no nuts, no flour, so no bread. So the food... got pretty uniform kind of soupy quality. We always had our three bowls for meals, but things got pretty bland.

[51:57]

And like I say, nothing kind of like soggy and smooth. But once in a while, somehow we would get some bread. Or something, you know, some kind of hard thing to create some like texture in the food. And one time we had croutons in the soup. How many times have you had that before? That's not too bad. Would you tolerate it? So anyway, croutons are quite a nice thing to have in soup if you haven't had anything in the soup. but basically liquid for quite a long time. Croutons, as you may know, they have some kind of body to them, but also as they get wet, they sink down to the bottom of the soup. So I had the situation of being in the meditation hall, receiving the food and knowing that there was croutons.

[53:00]

And... There were two rows with a partition, and there were two servers. And one server, because we're attached in the monastery, we start to notice serving styles. We start to know about how we're served. And some servers go down to the bottom of the soup and get chunky stuff off the bottom and give it to you. Other servers just take the liquid off the top and move the stuff at the bottom for the server's meal later. So I saw this person coming up my row who I know was a deep, deep server. And you could see that she was going down and getting stuff off the bottom, you know? So as soon as she got to me, I was gonna get some of that, some of the croutons. One of these other kind of servers that gives just the top, the clear broth in the top, and never gets below, but never gets near the stuff, the goodies at the bottom.

[54:10]

And they're both coming up the two sides. And I was watching to see which one was going to get to me first. This is the one on the other side who serves from the top. Finished and he started running around the corner. I was at the end of the row coming around the corner of the partition The other I was coming up to me and he was coming this way and here he comes and he's gonna beat her and there he Man, he serves me and he gives me the clear stuff And after that meal I don't know I think after the meals I cried I But I didn't cry because I didn't get the croutons. I cried that I had been reduced to such a level of pettiness. I'd come, you know, over the mountains to do Zen practice, but really I was like caring about croutons. And I was really, you know, ashamed of myself for being that petty.

[55:15]

So, it's kind of nice. And you can get that petty about a crouton, whereas in the city, you know, people in Berkeley, most of you don't get that worked up about croutons. Because, like, you know, if you got your seat yourself and there's no croutons, you just say, well, you know, send it back, or, geez, I didn't get my croutons. You wouldn't, you know, think about it that much, probably. Because you know you can get croutons any time you want. So my story is simpler. Simple to address your pettiness. It helps clarify and bring your pettiness out. It's harder to fool yourself and to think that, you know, you don't care about croutons. But just take away your croutons and see what you do. Take away your ability to, you know, control your, have your own little refrigerator right there that you can, you know, have a communal refrigerator that you can't use whenever you want to.

[56:19]

It is nice to have this kind of setup so your clinging shows better, more easily. But it's not impossible to notice it outside. It's just easier to trick yourself. Because the situation is set up, in some ways, some situations are set up to trick you. The society is trying to distract you in a lot of ways. People are making a living distracting you. They don't want you to notice your clinging. Because if you don't notice your clinging, then you'll be driven by your clinging and they can use you because you're driven by your clinging. So a lot of people, you know, just don't want to bring your attention to it because then they're going to lose control of you. So it is in some ways harder. But again, the Bodhisattva leaves the monastery, the Buddha leaves the monastery after getting training and embraces all beings For the additional benefit of the wider world, you can stay in a monastery too long.

[57:24]

But most people benefit from some monastic training if their life allows it. So if people ask me, they say, well, should I go to the monastery? And I say, well, there's an opening there. Because later it may not be there. So if you have a chance to train that way, It can be very useful because once you get a feeling for catching yourself with this stuff, once you start noticing that you can be petty about croutons, you start to notice your pettiness in other realms too. Really, don't think they're petty. They're walking around thinking, yeah, me, I'm not petty. I don't care about a crouton. But it's good to notice that you can really care about croutons or chocolate chip cookies and, you know, basically that you would kill for a chocolate chip cookie. You know? Actually, no one's ever been killed in our monastery for a chocolate chip cookie, but people think of killing people for chocolate chip cookies.

[58:26]

And they particularly think of that when there's no chocolate chip cookies, or there's just one chocolate chip cookie, and it's 60 monks. You know? People start... Amazing thoughts cross their mind. Realize that you can be like as... You can be like the pettiest person you ever heard of You're capable of that. Then when you leave the monastery, you realize, well, I'm just, you know, I could really be petty. And it's possible at any time, any place, I could be totally petty. That's good to know, to be open to that. So such a training hopefully would help you be more humble and, you know, not think you're better than certain people and therefore make it easier for you to, like, be with them. Because if you think you're better than people, then you're not going to want to, like, be with them. Even those people who are not as good as me. So bodhisattvas are trying to let go of it. Because it takes you away from who you're talking to. It decreases the great medicine of intimacy.

[59:32]

But most of us need a little help sometimes to notice that we're not better than anybody. Most of us need a little help. Some of us need a lot of help. So maybe some of you don't need monastic training because you already know you're not better than other people. But really arrogant people need to go to monasteries where they can really realize that they're really, you know... Look, some people are so arrogant that when they get to monasteries, it's not enough. So then they throw them out in the monastery and maybe in the street they can... Anyway, we need help to realize... Any idea we have that we're better than anybody. We need to renounce that. We need to relax with that, not grasp that. Anything else tonight? What's your name again?

[60:44]

Jeff. Jeff. The term samsara. Yes. Grasping and seeking. Well, samsara literally means going around, but it means going around birth and death, birth and death. So birth and death is the life we have when we grasp and seek. Because when you grasp, basically you're grasping something because you think you're going to lose it. When you grasp things, When you grasp yourself, you create death. When you seek something else, you create death. Within death, samsara is created by grasping and seeking. Without grasping and seeking, we're not in samsara anymore. But Buddhas who are free of grasping and seeking have no distance from those who are into grasping and seeking. Buddhas are totally intimate with us when we're grasping and seeking. And bodhisattvas are also trying to be intimate with all beings who aren't involved with grasping and seeking.

[61:49]

And bodhisattvas theoretically could still be into it a little bit themselves and using challenging situations to surface their grasping and seeking because in some situations you're grasping and seeking and suddenly other situations you say, oh, there it is, like croutons, you know. You're grasping something you never thought you would grasp. You thought you were free of grasping. Okay? Judith? Oh, you know, when you were talking about wisdom, I felt like you were talking about wisdom and something like there's no wisdom when there's wisdom, and it's just a great half-wisdom and a half-wisdom. Yes, it's kind of funny to say have relinquishing.

[62:52]

So wisdom is relinquishing all views. So it's kind of funny to say have, not have. So maybe realize. Not having any views. Realize not holding any views. That's wisdom. Are you thinking deeply and... You like realize? Yeah. Yeah, realize is better than have. Because it means understand and make real. So when we're actually like... in the world and not holding to any of our views or other people's views then also that's compact we're listening to ourselves and listening to others and the great bodhisattvas listen but they don't attached so they don't like believe what they're hearing or disbelieve what they're hearing so to not to believe what somebody says to you is grasping disbelieve what they're saying is grasping

[64:03]

So try to listen without believing or disbelieving. Somebody says, oh, you're so beautiful. Try not to grasp it as true and try not to reject it as false. But just listen. They are saying that, I guess. And that middle place, think that true or grasping that it's false. Oh, no, I'm not beautiful. Oh, yes, I am beautiful. Try to not relax with both of those. Then you have the renunciation by which you enter into into wisdom about this particular thing called somebody telling you that you're beautiful. It's okay to feel this kind of warm feeling when they say it, but then try not to grasp that or seek more of it. Because if you grasp it, that's death. Seek more, that's birth. So how can we be, you know, showered with love and compliments and relax with that rather than, okay, more please or less.

[65:07]

Just accept all this praise and love and want that people just let it wash over us and just stay relaxed with it. This is a real challenge. And then similarly, how can we, you know, and harshness in that same relaxed way of not grasping it or seeking something other than it. Great challenge. And when we can practice in those situations, we're in wisdom and compassion together. So that's renunciation. It's so important. It's the key. The key to practice. Is there another hand? No? Callous? Yes. Pardon? Yeah, it's hard so just it's hard because you know, sometimes I say seekers speaking voice up as they sometimes say they seek this and they seek that but I'm going to say that they don't seek that the Buddha's

[66:23]

Again, the difficult thing is that you wish for something, like you wish someone well, you want the very best for them, but you don't seek anything. You're working with what's happening right now, and you're not thinking of later, even though you're not grasping for later or seeking later, even though you wish that their later will be good. And even maybe you can see that their later is good, and that's very nice, but you're not seeking. So you have compassion, you have good wishes for everybody, but you're not seeking anything. And that way you're setting an example for the person about exactly the way that they can enter into what you hope they will achieve. Whereas if you wish someone well, and you skip over the way they are to something other than what they are, the way they'll stay in their illness, by being away from what they are.

[67:26]

But it's hard to understand that. And even with your own suffering, to like... Of course it's fine to want to be free of it, and not be the slightest distance from it. And also not to be focused on your suffering either, like clinging to your suffering, and holding to your suffering, and sticking your nose in your suffering. No. be relaxed with your suffering try to find how to allow that place of relaxation which is there is life in the middle of the suffering already and that life is just there completely relaxed can we find that it's not easy and and when after you do find it whether it was easy or not then if you're lucky so you can now develop a skill for this new challenge this new challenge this new discomfort people that are really look like they're going to break if you say anything to them you generally speaking leave them alone because you know you feel like they got enough problems that you can't

[68:49]

You can't expect them to take on any more. They can barely survive with what they've already got. But someone who's sitting quite relaxed, you naturally bring them some, like, some problem. Like, could you help me with something here? I got a problem here. You look like you could handle a problem. Can you handle a problem? You look kind of relaxed and open. Can I tell you about some problem, some pain that we have here in this world? Listen. And maybe they say, yeah, I'll listen. And maybe they can listen and stay relaxed, but maybe they tense up a little bit. And then maybe you could take a little break and say, why don't you relax now for a little while, not before I tell you the rest of the story. What did you say?

[69:57]

Oh, Harvey. I got it. The rest of the story. Yeah. It's entirely possible. What station is he on? Are we still alive? How you doing? Are you relaxed? Are you afraid to say you're relaxed? Are you too relaxed to say you're relaxed? You're sleepy? Well, I won't keep you any later.

[70:58]

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