where I see the interplay, not the interplay, but first of all the practice of mental stabilization, and then the practice of mental stabilization in the Zen tradition. I'm ready to do that, but if you have any questions about stabilization and insight before I do. You could ask them now, or I could just go into that. Would I? I don't think so, because I think part of... Well, actually, I guess hatha yoga is one of the branches of yoga, right?

[01:08]

And then there's also... Yeah. I think maybe you could pretty much do that. If you could... Mm-hmm. And then also pranayama is usually often included under hatha yoga, isn't it? Yeah. And then there's raja yoga, right? Yeah. Right. So, yeah, but it also includes, doesn't it also include... Right.

[02:12]

And then maybe the Raja Yoga also includes the scriptures too, right? The Yoga Sutras. Yes. So, yeah, I think you might be able to at least tentatively think of the hatha yoga as, and maybe ashtanga yoga too, I'm not sure, as about mental and physical stabilization. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. And absorption also is stabilization. And so I think part of the idea then, I don't know about the yoga system, but in Buddhism is once you're in a state of absorption, you're ready to study insight.

[03:17]

You're ready to develop insight. Okay. Any other questions? Yes. 76. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday, dear Roberta. Happy birthday to you. I think she tore the top of the pads on her feet off. I think running in the pool. Maybe the heat.

[04:25]

She's run in the pool before, but she hasn't been running on it for a while, and it's hot. But anyway, both pads, the one, two, three, and then the back one here, both on the top and the back one's torn off. What? Literally, yeah, it's raw, yeah. The back one. And I put some medication on it, but anyway. But maybe she shouldn't walk around too much today. It's heavy. Yes. She seems to not mind it too much. There was a woman here also who had her 75th birthday yesterday. She was sitting at our last Actually, some of these stories I'd like to say only one time.

[05:43]

I may have to tell some of these stories again this afternoon, but I don't want to hold them back from you, just because I might want to bring them up this afternoon. So please excuse me if you have to listen to these stories twice today. I've told them about 6,000 times already, so... Maybe you can stand two in one day. Actually, I've already thought of them ten times today. Yes, Liz? Even if you don't have stabilization down, should you listen to these Zen stories? Oh, you might not understand. If you haven't realized stabilization, then insight work will not necessarily take.

[06:54]

But you can hear about insight work before you're ready for insight work. Does that make sense? Well, have you found the insight discussions confusing so far? Is there anything else confusing in your life? Right. So, basically that you have, like, whatever's going on with you, whatever's coming up for you, then stabilization is about not being distracted in the variety of phenomena that are appearing to you.

[07:59]

Get distracted by them because you somehow can deal with them all under the same topic, namely, you're not going to get involved, you're not going to elaborate on what you're seeing. Then if you hear about insight practice, then you think, well, now I probably should start getting involved. But no, you should practice the same way when you hear insight practices, when you're practicing stabilization. If you're still practicing stabilization, when you hear about insight, it's just more information that you shouldn't let take you out of your stabilization practice until you've accomplished it. You don't have to make an exception for Buddhist teachings, just like you don't make an exception for various feelings and ideas that are coming up for you. You stay on your stabilization practice no matter what comes up.

[08:59]

But still, just like even though you're doing that, information is coming in, it's just that you're not elaborating on anything that comes in. So you're hearing, today is Thursday, but you don't elaborate on that. Stabilization. Right? When you're practicing insight, you don't elaborate on it either. Does that make sense? And if you're well established and not elaborating, then when something comes and you don't elaborate on it, then you penetrate it. And then the next thing that comes up, your mind penetrates. And the next thing that comes up, your mind penetrates. Because your mind is stable. And then you understand, because you penetrate, that not only do you treat everything the same, but you understand everything is the same. So in stabilization, you're different. but you treat them all the same. In insight, you penetrate them and understand that they're the same.

[10:07]

And that's how insight will help you practice stabilization. Because at first, in stabilization, you think there's different things, but you're not dealing with the difference. In insight, there is no difference. So then that makes it easy to practice stabilization. Because you don't even have to hold yourself back from reacting to the difference which you see. Because you see that there isn't a difference, really. In the meantime, before there's insight, still the process of stabilization materials is coming in concept by concept. So you are actually getting information. but you're getting it in this way that you just receive information, receive information, without receiving information with a comment, receiving information with a comment, receiving information with a comment. So you actually can function quite well in a lot of situations in that way. You can also hear about insight practices without commenting on it, without elaborating on it, without getting involved in trains of thoughts about it.

[11:14]

You just get the information, get the information. So actually you can learn about some of the... you can actually learn about... before you're practicing it in a state of stabilization. You can also learn about insight practice before you have stabilization, too. But you learn, I think, in some ways you learn slower, and in some ways you learn much, much slower. So stabilization actually is a very... You can learn much, much faster. because you're not going off on all these side trips. So information comes in, and it's like, it's like that, like I was talking about, when the baseball comes to the concentrated batter, it's like a pizza pie. It's like really easy to see. Stabilized, when the teaching comes, it's like there's nothing else going on. Just here comes this big teaching, and it's like, you just like can't avoid it. It's like, right... It's like, this is what you have to pay attention to.

[12:18]

Pay attention to it, because it's so big. So if you get confused, it's probably because you've just veered away from your stabilization practice, not because of what's being presented to you. And so in that sense, stabilization practice is a temporary... break when it's established. It's a temporary break. It's a relief. It's a vacation from confusion. But it's a temporary vacation. It's not a permanent vacation. So the rest of the story, Diana can tell you the rest of the story. No, about the doorman. So Chinese tourists have come and overwhelmed you. But then there's... No, before the automatic tour.

[13:27]

So the Chinese, the horde of Chinese tourists overwhelms you. So you're overwhelmed. But there's more than that that can happen to you. Listen to this. So sometimes what happens is you might see... You're the doorman, right? And... You see coming in the distance a very scary-looking person. So this Tibetan Lama was half his head shaved, and he's got, you know, a mohawk. hairdo and he's got muscles all over and tattoos down his arms and so you see him coming and you think uh oh you know and you feel scared but you're breathing you know and he's you're still breathing in and breathing out and being mindful he comes closer and closer and then he just grabs you by the arm and pulls you into the hotel into the restroom he's

[14:53]

He was always mentioning people being pulled to the restroom. And so... We didn't go into that. So actually, I don't quite know what one does when he... Say something about what one does when one's... being dragged, you know. You already said it. When you're dragged, you have to switch into being an automatic door. The automatic door, it doesn't think about anything. It just opens and shuts and there's nobody, there's no doorman there. So, nobody gets dragged any place. They're just opening and closing of the door. This is, that's insight.

[15:55]

So, hordes of Chinese tourists and well-behaved... The door just, when it comes, it just opens and lets them in. And they never think of taking the door to the restroom. Even if it looked like you were getting dragged, even if it looked like your body was getting dragged away. The insight is that this is the same as not being dragged away. Insight is the automatic door that can't even think of being dragged away or not dragged away. Or they're dragged away and not dragged away, overwhelmed and calm. It's all the same, basically, because you have insight. You see the nature of things. So, you know, someone may see some person dragging you off, but the insight says, the insight sees that this is not really that different from not being dragged off. So, no matter what happens to you, whether you're a happy, dormant person sitting indoors or you're being dragged off to various other areas and being treated in various ways, the insight shows you it's all the same.

[17:08]

The stabilization is to act the same. The insight is to understand that the different things you're treating are the same. They're not different. So if you've got cancer or you're insane, insight is there in both cases. It's the same situation, basically. You, the doorman, the Chinese tourists, they're not different. You understand that. Such a practice does not depend on being, you know, smart, stupid, male, female, healthy, or sick.

[18:13]

It's okay. It's all the same. Whether you get it or not. And you don't get that, right? Good. How does one function? Appropriately. If you don't understand that, you can't respond appropriately. But usually you can't. Because you think, oh, I should be compassionate to this person, but not that person. Because this person deserves my compassion, and that one's different. So then you can't respond compassionately to all types of people.

[19:26]

But if you see the sameness of all people, you can, if you're a bodhisattva, you can be devoted to all people. That's one of the main points of being able to see things. Yes, uh-huh. Pardon? Because you see how they're the same. You still can see how they're different, too. But that's your ordinary dualistic consciousness which is still functioning. So you can tell, you know, you can tell that your oatmeal goes in your mouth rather than your ear. But basically you understand the way your ear and your mouth are the same. They're both orifices. They're both... Pardon? The two... What two?

[20:29]

Yes? Yes? The two, what are the two? Yes. Yeah, those two work together. Right. So dualistic consciousness then harmonizes, is harmonized with non-dual awareness. So most people have dualistic awareness. So then, when you understand everything's the same, you have non-dual awareness, and non-dual awareness can be harmonized with dualistic awareness. And then, all your interactions are illuminated by understanding of non-duality. So you're not pushed around by duality anymore, even though you're still operating within duality.

[21:34]

There would be no functioning. There would be no functioning. From the perspective of the dualistic person, they wouldn't see anything happening. And from the perspective of just non-duality... There's no perspective in non-duality. So the Heart Sutra is literal. No eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind, no color, no touch, no taste, no suffering, no origination of suffering, no end of suffering, no path, no cognition, no attainment. That's what it's like in non-duality. Literally. But that perspective with the perspective of eyes and ears and nose and tongue and body. But in that perspective there isn't anything, and there's no function. There aren't any phenomena.

[22:51]

But when we understand that, it illuminates the dualistic world, then the function, the way the dualistic world is functioning, is called a great function because it's been educated or illuminated and set free from itself, from its own obstructions and boundaries and so on. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yes, I have heard of people like that. That's what's called Zen sickness. They're spiritually ill. They realize and then they grasp, they hold on to it.

[24:03]

And that's called spiritual illness or spiritual materialism. You really do need both, yeah. If you don't have understanding of non-duality, then you're just suffering in physical and psychological materialism. You're attached to your physical situation and your psychological states. And so you suffer. So you need to be, you need to get free of that. But if you grasp, if you grasp emptiness or you grasp ultimate truth, then you're sick too. And in some ways more dangerous than grasping psychological states or physical states. Because almost, there's very few doctors for, for Zen sickness. But there's a lot of doctors for material illness and psychological illness or psychological attachment and physical attachments.

[25:08]

And spiritual illness is much more pleasant in some ways than the other two kinds of illness. That's why it happens is because spiritual attainment is so nice that you want to attach to it and not come back When you attach to it, don't you get automatically kicked out of it, back to duality by the attachment? You do, but you don't understand it because you're sick. Uh-huh. Yeah, well, if you can... Fine. The reality is, you know, oppressing you, then you're innocent. Well, maybe, I don't know.

[26:31]

I'd have to meet them to diagnose their situation. But they might not have spiritual sickness, but more likely be spiritual slaves. Slaves of non-duality. Non-duality robots. But the robot isn't attaching to its operator. Usually they don't attach to their operator. What they're afraid of is that they'll get rid of their operator and be autonomous operating robots. But to be a robot of reality is okay. But to try to control reality after having had a glimpse of it is spiritual sickness. To try to possess and then control or utilize reality the understanding of non-duality, that would be an illness.

[27:38]

Mm-hmm. I think to be a slave of reality is okay. It's not really illness. It's when a slave tries to take over the empire that we have a problem. When they get into the inner sanctum and see how the whole kingdom works and then grasp that, then they become just another tyrant. And they know how things work, so it's hard to dethrone them. You know, I'm having a terrible time trying to understand this. You know, for example, how about an inmate that gets grabbed by other inmates?

[28:40]

Yeah? You know, how can that be the same? How can that guy see the same? Do you want to have the case that this guy can see the same? Or do you want to have the case that this guy can't see the same? That he can't see that life is just the same. He can see that? Life with that man. But this man can see that it's the same? Is that the story you want to tell? Then that man, while he's being raped, can see that it's the same before and after being raped. He can see that. And these people who rape him, to be enlightened by this man seeing that. So he can help them wake up from their cruelty. That's the possibility there. Just like in Buddhism, we had a lot of Buddhist monks in India for a while, and then the Muslims came in and chopped off their heads.

[29:42]

But when the Buddhist monks got their heads chopped off, the sword went through much more easily than it did on the other people. And the Muslims thought, how come those guys are so easy to cut? And then they became Sufis. So if somebody's going to kill you, and you think being killed is different than not being killed, and you think they're different from you, then you're just going to have a terrible experience of being murdered. You're going to be frightened. You're going to be angry, terrified. You want to kill back or whatever. This is a normal reaction. If you think that you're different from other people and somebody tries to hurt you, you feel really upset. You got it? Everybody else got it? So we already know how to get upset when people... Because we think they're being mean to us and we think being mean is different than loving us.

[30:47]

So we get upset. So they know about that. They know, oh, I'm being mean to people, they don't like it, blah, blah. But to be mean to somebody and have that person look back at you like you're loving them snaps you out of your delusion. And the Bodhisattva, the Buddha, wants you to wake up. So when you kill the Buddha, the Buddha says, Hi, Savi. And you go, how could the Buddha do that when I was killing? This is amazing. And so there's many stories about people being cruel to some spiritual first practitioner, and the reaction to the cruelty is such that they wake up and stop being cruel. You know those stories, right? Like that one, what is it? Well, there's a million of them. One that comes to mind is this samurai, this warrior comes to a Zen teacher and he says, would you please teach me the difference between, well, nirvana and samsara, you know, the world of peaceful bliss and the world of misery?

[32:05]

Some translations say, please teach me the difference between heaven and hell. That's Western translation. But I think in Buddhism you would say samsara and nirvana. And the Zen teacher says, let me teach you about... I'm sorry, it's not possible. And the warrior says, well, why not? He says, because you're totally arrogant and stupid, that's why. You couldn't learn anything about anything. You're just a brutal, vicious moron. And the samurai raises his sword, raises it up, and is just about to cut the guy's head off. And the Zen master says, that's samsara. This is misery. And then the guy drops his sword, bursts into tears, and says, you know, thank you, master, for teaching me.

[33:08]

And then he says, this is nirvana. So this is an example of where the teacher can see the same guy, but also he can see the difference. So he uses the difference that this guy's caught in to show him the same. The sameness of he and the teacher. The teacher's not worried about him dying to help this person. And also, not worried about the difference between Samsung and not worried about the difference between life and death. So he can help this guy and use this guy's sense of difference to snap him out of it. So he did teach him about a difference because he saw sameness. And when the other guy saw the sameness through the difference, he woke up. But still, you know, if somebody's going to kill you, you still might say, you know, it's probably not a good idea.

[34:14]

It's not that good. I recommend you don't. But then, if... Then, move to the next level of teaching. Which is, oh, you decided to kill me, didn't you? Oh, there's so many stories like this. But, any other questions? Yes? Is it losing touch with form? Yeah, uh-huh. It's losing touch with form, right. It's like form and emptiness are very intimate. Ultimate conventional truth are intimate. Dualistic consciousness and non-dual awareness are very close. And When you look at one, unless you're a Buddha, when you look at one, you can't see the other. So when you're looking at duality, you can't see non-duality.

[35:19]

When you look at non-duality, but even though you're looking at one, you can understand the other. So when you're looking at duality, before you see non-duality, you usually grasp duality. But when you see non-duality, you can let go of duality. non-duality because non-duality is right next to duality. So most of us then would go back and forth between these. But when you first switch from duality to non-duality it's such a big relief you think this is where I want to stay. You have meditation sickness. Only successful meditators can have meditation sickness. then you have to not grasp what you have realized. And that's another reason for having a community and a teacher, because they'll help you.

[36:20]

But no guarantee. Some teachers can't even get you off it. So sometimes then you have to be taken to the emergency psychiatric treatment area. And then you say, oh, I get it. They're not kidding. Or you set up your own cult. Don't be quiet and then sneak off and set up your own cult. But if you tell the people in your own community, they'll put you in the emergency room. But less developed people will work to prove the fact you have attained something. And you can prove it to them because you have. So anything else you want to bring up? Yes? You're just playing with your hair? Yes? Ready to move on?

[37:23]

No? Not? Okay. You're a little bit ready? You'd like to talk about elaboration? Okay. See if you can do it without elaborating. Yeah? Yeah? Elaborating your hair? This point you're not elaborating, and at that point you are. And for the sake of the recording, You cut all your hair off, you're not elaborating at that moment. She said, that's not true and this is not a debate. This is a friendly discussion.

[38:29]

Debates can be friendly discussion in Buddhism. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm talking about when it's shaved. At the moment it's shaved. Yeah. That's right. It's the doing in the hair that's the elaboration. That's right. So? We agree. And that statement that we agree is an elaboration. Yeah, it's okay, though. It's all right to elaborate. It's always okay to elaborate. It's just that elaboration... if you don't have stability, contributes to more instability. You don't have to practice stability. That non-elaboration develops stability, and elaboration, unless you already have stability, stirs things up.

[39:30]

But elaboration is sometimes good. Well, it's always good. It's just, can you use how good it is? And if you have mental stability, then you can use elaboration as an opportunity for insight. Everything is an opportunity for insight. Everything is an opportunity for insight. But if you're upset and destabilized, it's hard to use the opportunity. It looks like you don't quite understand that. It looks like... You did? Yeah. And if you're stabilized, you can use the opportunity because you're open to the opportunity. If you're destabilized, your mind is kind of contracted and it's, you know, being kind of selective and dealing with only part of the picture so you can't see what's being offered to you by everything that's happening.

[40:35]

you you we could say i could say yes that we are but even if you are doing this thing that you just showed me with leaning from side to side if as you're leaning to one side you don't elaborate the ability if you're leading to the other side and you don't elaborate you can always realize stability no matter what's happening Even if what seems to be happening is instability, you cannot elaborate on instability and then you have stability. So the stability can be realized in a tangible situation. That's why I gave the example of the Zen teacher takes his students horseback riding in the marketplace to see if they can continue to practice stabilization as they're being jostled by the crowd and working with their horses. So they're moving all over the place, but they're... ...continue their stabilization practice in this hectic, changeable situation. And it is possible, but hard. So usually we start with a simple situation to get the feeling for stability.

[41:51]

Because there is always movement. Did you want to say something, Tilly? Well, I was just going to tell a story. Well, Jackie wanted to go to the bathroom to look in the room to see if her hair would go out. And I got a feeling, so I said to her, how would you feel about that? And because I had a feeling that we all could be hurt, to find out if there's something wrong with us, it was a surprise. It was a smile on her face. And she started to say something. So I said, that was the whole operation. I don't know if that's true. true but you said that yeah so I think elaboration is anyway when you when you you overlook for them the quality of mind the quality of cognition

[43:05]

that it doesn't elaborate on what it knows. You just overlook it for a minute and then you have this sense of... that you're arguing with what's happening. But if there seems to be an argument about what's happening or if there's a debate going on and you don't elaborate on that debate, you just let the debate be a debate, then that mode of relating to the debate is a door to being stable right in the middle of a debate. And in fact, you can debate best when you're stable and calm and open to all that's going on. And best means in the most insightful way. Yes? To try to stop elaboration in some sense would be an elaboration of elaboration.

[44:17]

But to let the elaboration be elaboration is non-elaboration. So elaboration, if you are aware of some elaboration, if there's a cognition of elaboration, that means there's a concept of elaboration out there which is being cognized. And the cognition of the elaboration is just that. If it wasn't just that, there wouldn't be cognition of it. In fact, that's all that is known is what's known. That's it. And to let the elaboration just be an elaboration, there's no elaboration in that. There's just cognition of elaboration. Manipulation of the object of awareness... then that's so, that's appearing, that's the phenomena, and to let it just be that is non-elaboration. And letting things be like that stabilizes the psychophysical organism. Then, once there's stability, another example of, for example, another example of the phenomena of elaboration arises, now in a stabilized state there can be penetration into the nature of elaboration.

[45:31]

It can be vision, seeing how elaboration really is. What is its actual mode of... And then the next thing that happens, whatever it is, there can also be insight into what that is. So as you have insight into what each thing is, that's a relief, because when you see how things are, there's no longer any need to elaborate or grasp. relieves you of grasping and anxiety. Plus, you also get to see, as you see the way this is and see the way that is and see the way that is, you see everything is basically beautiful. You can still see the difference, but you see fundamentally, I mean, if you see two different people beautiful, the thing you're really enjoying is that they're both beautiful. Not so much that there's two different types of beauty. I don't know if this is related, but there's a little mantra that I've been using lately.

[46:38]

It's a little excerpt of poetry that I really like, for some reason it stuck with me, and it says, I know in my heart that there's something called self as a part, but the world is the whole of it. For me, and that that's a part, in both ways, that that's a part, and also that's a part. This idea in my heart that there's something called self is a part of what I am. Right? Part of what we are is that we have this idea that it's a self, and that there's a self that's a part. We have both of those, that there's a self and that there's a self that's a part. And that's part of what we are. So it's like a triple thing on that apart, right? But then to go on and say, but the world is the whole. Yeah, and so like in Zen we say, the entire world in ten directions is the true body of the self.

[47:42]

John Neihardt. But the world is the whole of me. Me. Me. That kind of helps me when I'm thinking about feeling separate. It's helped me a lot. First time I read it. Wow. Yes? About the methods of catalyzation, I have found that I use the three simultaneously when I meditate. So, you know, focusing in my breath, also in the body, and also when something comes up, I'm using my breath to sort of like cloud to see it and let it go. And the way to let it go is to go back to my breath.

[48:50]

And also, at the same time, sometimes I'm meditating and I have deep pain in my body, and I realize I can't breathe straight, so I straighten out myself. So today I was realizing that I'm using the three methods of stabilization simultaneously, so I'm not getting involved with the thoughts by going to the brain. and also I'm focusing in my body, so I don't need my body while I meditate. And I was wondering if I am distracting myself in going to the three methods of stabilization during a satsang. I think probably if you could consolidate them all into one image, your stabilization would be more, would be more, more stability. If you could consolidate them into one image, one idea, one concept, you'd probably feel more stable.

[49:59]

But you might, maybe I could, so that's what I'd say. And that reminds me of some Zen stuff. But before I bring that up, maybe, does that make sense to you? Yeah. So what you're doing sounds pretty good. It seems like it's kind of encouraging to you to practice it that way. Is it? Yeah, it is, because, you know, sometimes I, you know, thoughts are always coming in. Yes, uh-huh. Pain will always be there in the body, you know, after 20 minutes, either the knees or the ankle or the back. No, it won't always be there, but anyway, yeah, but you haven't been practicing for always. But anyway, I think often... Sometimes, you know, I had the feeling that I was kind of jumping between the three and maybe if I can just visualize one, I'll get more rooted. Yeah, and you might... I think that's the case.

[51:02]

And so a couple of stories about that are... One of them that comes to mind is... I think it's case 39 of the Book of Serenity. And I think it's a monk comes to visit. Giorgio is the guy who, you know, when they said, does the dog have Buddha nature, he said, moo. So again, you can see moo to some extent as a stabilization instruction. People come and ask you philosophical questions, you say moo. You could see, you could understand he was telling the guy to practice stabilization rather than asking those kinds of questions. But you could also understand that he was practicing stabilization. So, every time anybody asks you a philosophical question, you just sort of tell them what's going on in your head, namely, mu. Namely, I'm not going to get what you said for myself or for you.

[52:04]

But anyway, this other story about Zhaozhou is a monk came to the monastery and came to see Jaojo, and Jaojo said, have you had breakfast? And the monk said, yes, and he said, the monk said, yes, I've had breakfast. And Jaojo said, then wash your bowls. in terms of like meditating on, for example, sitting and meditating. Have you had your breakfast? When you're sitting and meditating, what's your breakfast? Huh?

[53:07]

Next breakfast? No, no, that's not... This breath. Or this posture. You're sitting there, right? And maybe you have a feeling of your body sitting there. Did you have your breakfast? Did you eat your breakfast? Did you have the experience of your posture? Did you? If yes, then wash your bowl. What does wash your bowl mean? Let it go. Let it go. Let that body be washed away. Wash your bowl. Sitting up. Wash your bowl. If you have pain in your back, this is not saying sit up straight. This is, did you have breakfast? Wash your bowl. Next moment, did you have breakfast? What's breakfast this time? Maybe breakfast this time is you're sitting up straight.

[54:10]

Okay, did you sit up straight? That's your breakfast. Did you have your breakfast? You done eating that upright posture? Yes. Now what? Breath. Did you have your breakfast? Yes. Wash the bowl. Now what's happening? Huh? Thoughts. Did you have your breakfast? Yes, I had my breakfast. Wash your bowl. Now what's happening? Hungry. Did you have your breakfast? Yes. Wash your bowl. Now what's happening? Huh? Space. Did you have your breakfast? Wash your bowl. So that's kind of that story is as Samatha practice. So there's a phase of the practice which is have your breakfast. It's breakfast time.

[55:12]

In other words, it's time to have an experience. Time to get some input. What's your breakfast? Your breakfast is everything you get. Moment by moment is your breakfast. Did you eat it? You didn't eat it? Okay, well, eat it. Eat that posture. Eat that thought. Eat that pain. I mean, is that your breakfast or not? What's your breakfast? Anyway, you can't wash your bowl before you have breakfast. So you have an experience, and when you're done with the experience, did you finish yet? No? Well, finish it. Okay, you're done now? Wash it. Some breakfasts are difficult. Some breakfast, you have to chew a long time, maybe.

[56:16]

So you tell me when you're done with your breakfast. If I ask you if you had your breakfast and you say, no, I'm not, I'll just say, well, let me know when you're done with your breakfast. Now, it's possible that that monk was you in a former life. And if you had breakfast, you said... I'm not done with breakfast yet. Or you didn't say anything for years. And finally you came and said, I finished breakfast. And he said, wash your bowl. It may take you a long time. There may be a big space between did you have breakfast and the answer, I've had breakfast. It takes a while to be able to say, I have actually had an experience. Rather than, I'm not done with this experience, I, you know, this is, I can't say I've had this experience. I can't say that yet. So, then you don't say, yes, I've had it.

[57:19]

So, Jajo doesn't tell you to wash your bowl until you've had breakfast. So, some experiences maybe take you a long time to fully experience. Pardon? The bowl, I guess, is your mind, your cognition. Wash your cognition. That's what your cognition does. When it finally knows something, it washes itself. That's it. What? Okay. So that's the Zen story, which I think typifies... Perhaps a kind of Samatha practice where, and you could even coordinate this kind of Samatha practice with your breathing if you want to. So like on the inhale, you have breakfast. On the exhale, you wash your bowl. On the inhale, you have your breakfast. On the exhale, you wash your bowl.

[58:26]

On the inhale, you feel pain. On the exhale, you wash your bowl. On the inhale, you feel your posture. On the exhale, you wash your bowl. On the inhale, you have a thought. On the exhale, you wash your bowl. So on the inhale, you feel. You take something in. You recognize something. On the exhale, you let it go. So that's the kind of shaman to practice. Yeah, right. That's what soji is for. Haven't you been doing that during soji? You've been skipping soji, right? Soji and going and having a snack. Which is fine, but don't forget to wash your bowl after your snack. What? Yeah. But first of all, before you wash, you've got to have a dirty body. Or anyway, a body. It doesn't have to be dirty. So we say in Zen that we go to the bath and wash ourselves because we're clean.

[59:28]

That's why we like to wash at the bath, because we're clean. So we go and celebrate how clean we are by going to the baths. So this washing your bowl is to celebrate that mind always washes itself of what it knows. It knows something and then it washes itself. It knows something and washes itself. It doesn't know something and then argue about it and hold on to it. It always actually knows and lets go. But if your mental attention is not disciplined, you're looking around The mind actually has breakfast and washes the bowl. The mind has breakfast and washes the bowl. The mind knows something and lets it go. That's the way it operates. You have to train your mind to first of all be like that and then you'll realize that you are like that. So you go to the mind to wash yourself so you can realize that you're clean. First you think you're doing something different from the way you are.

[60:33]

Like you think you're washing yourself and you're dirty, but actually... That's because I'm always clean, but I should go more often to celebrate how clean I am. But it's so far from my cabin that it takes me all day to get there. So I just stay in my cabin and say, I'm clean. Nice. So that's one Zen story about that. Ready for another one? Okay. So yesterday somebody, one of the monks asked me a question about, well, something about the... This is all very interesting, but blah, blah, blah, blah. I haven't talked to him yet about what he meant, but another monk came to talk to me this morning and he said... He said, you know, this is all very interesting, but the sixth ancestor of Zen, a great Zen master, he said, do you know any of this Samantan Vipassana stuff?

[61:42]

And I said, yeah. And then he said, what about this thing in Zen about not relying on scriptures? I think some people think that when I'm teaching the Samantan Vipassana, I'm citing some scriptures. like the Samdhi Nirmacana Sutra and so on. He said, what about this Zen thing about a special transmission outside the scripture without relying on the scriptures? And then I said, yeah. And the sixth ancestor didn't have any of this shamatha vipassana. Because he didn't. He probably never heard of shamatha vipassana. When the guy left, I thought, oh, this is a perfect example of Samantabhipashina, the six ancestors story. And also it's a perfect example of not relying on scriptures. And then I thought, some Zen students hear the teaching, a special transmission outside the scriptures, and they make that into a scripture.

[62:48]

And then they cling to it. They rely on it. They rely on not relying on scriptures. They make not relying on scriptures a scripture and then rely on that. I'm not saying this guy did that, but they do that. So what's the story of the sixth ancestor, which is a perfect example of not relying on scriptures? Well, he was kind of a peasant. Not a peasant exactly, but I think his father had been a... had died, so he was poor, and he supported his mother and himself by collecting firewood. His father had some education, but he had not education to the level, he couldn't read Chinese, for example. Most Chinese people in the Tang Dynasty couldn't read Chinese. But they can speak Chinese, of course. So he couldn't read Chinese. He was an uneducated, relatively uneducated workman. They called him Workman Luke. Or you could call him Lou the Workman.

[63:53]

That was a really good joke, by the way. It's funny that you didn't get it, isn't it? Anyway, he was walking through a marketplace in southern China, Canton, I think, and selling firewood, and he walked by a kind of a fortune teller, what just happened to be chanting the Diamond Sutra. And the part he was chanting was section 10C of the Diamond Sutra. And it's the part where it says, a bodhisattva should produce which has no abode. And when he heard that, line of scripture he woke up he had an enlightenment so then people you know this person's interpretation was he didn't have the shamatha and vipassana and he woke up he woke up by hearing a sutra by hearing a scripture and also I would say that he was in a state of shamatha when he was walking through the marketplace he was already stabilized somehow whatever the way could you hear now

[65:19]

Oh, yeah, not dwelling any place. Okay? So Bodhisattva should not dwell on anything. And so when he heard that, he woke up. But I understand that story that he was in a state of stability as he's walking through the market. He got that stability by cutting firewood. You know, he probably concentrated while he was cutting the firewood. And he probably was just cutting the firewood. He probably wasn't saying, you know, I'm going to be a famous Zen master someday. And, you know, people are going to, you know, look back in the time when I was cutting firewood and blah, blah, blah. He's probably just cutting the firewood. And he probably wasn't thinking, you know, how long am I going to have to cut firewood before I wake up or, you know, before I get famous or... Poor me. I'm poor. I have to support my mother. Blah, blah, blah. He probably wasn't doing that. He probably was just going... And then he's walking, probably going to the marketplace carrying his wood and just step by step.

[66:24]

Firewood. With no elaboration. Firewood. Firewood. Probably like that, you know. Firewood. Firewood. Maybe. Workmen lose special firewood. Don't miss. Good deal. Workmen lose special firewood. Don't miss good deals. So maybe he elaborated a little bit. But when he elaborated, probably he didn't elaborate on the elaboration. He just said, workmen lose excellent firewood. Merkman Luz, excellent firework, just said that when he said that. Just said that when he said that. He was in a state of stabilization. So he heard the Diamond Sutra and he woke up. His mind, in the state of stabilization, his mind settled down and opened up. And when he heard the Diamond Sutra, he realized that the entire world is who you are.

[67:24]

And so he was happy. So he went to the person who said, that was interesting what you said. He said, Where can I hear more about this? And so the guy said, actually there's a Zen master who lives in northern China who is an expert and gives very good talks on the Diamond Sutra. Maybe you should go study with him. So he went to study with the fifth ancestor. He's the sixth. He went to study with the fifth so he could become the sixth. He wasn't into that. He just wanted to go see the fifth and learn about the Diamond Sutra because he loved the Diamond Sutra all of a sudden because he just heard it and it was like the Diamond Sutra was happiness. The Diamond Sutra was beauty. And the Diamond Sutra says everything's happiness and everything's beauty. He wanted to go hear more about that and learn more about that and deepen his insight. So actually, although the story says nothing about Samantan Vipassana, I think it's a beautiful

[68:29]

Zen version of Samatha Vipassana. And also that an uneducated person can practice Samatha Vipassana, can practice insight and tranquility. But the funny thing is that this person uses that story as an example of the very thing I'm talking about, about how this Zen teacher, this Zen master, didn't have these practices. Right? He didn't have them, so why do we need them? And so they're... There it was, right there, hidden in that story. The rest of the story? Yeah, I can. Do you want to hear the rest of the story? It's going to take a long time. No. I'd like to hear the rest of the story, so I'll tell you the rest of the story. Why didn't we make a love? It's sad to know that we don't want to. Okay, how many people want to hear the story?

[69:31]

I'll tell you when. But if you want to hear the story, I'll be happy to tell the story. But I can't guarantee what's going to happen this afternoon. I think it's going to get a little rough. I think I'm going to harangue some of these Zen students who are attached to school. So you guys are warned, so don't come. if you have any attachments. Okay? And I already told you that story before of the Matsu, Master Ma, right? When the monk came to see him, He said, can I see Master Ma? And the attendant says, what do you want? He said, I want to ask him, what is the Buddha way?

[70:42]

So the attendant comes and asks Master Ma. The monk came and he wants to know, what's the Buddha way? And Master Ma says, tell him to drink tea and go. And the superintendent came back and said, well, I told him that. By the way, what is the Buddha way? Have some tea and go. Same thing as wash your bowl. First of all, have you had... Wash your bowls, go. Have you had breakfast? Have some tea. First have some tea. And then go. Have some tea and go. It's really more like... It sounds more like stabilization, but actually it's stabilization... Have your tea and go. But also when you go, it's insight. Because you just go. Because when you have... Huh? To go?

[71:45]

Because you're free. Because you got your walking papers. You can go now. You're done. You finished the course. You're enlightened. You have insight. Now do you understand how you have insight? There you got it. See you later. One success, we got one success here. Okay, back here, Rosie. It will come to my two-party. But, cool. And Suzuki Roshi told it differently. He had his version. He said, he's talking about meditation, right? And he says... When a guest comes to the door, let them in. And then give them some tea. But you don't... And let them go. Someone else heard the story, when a guest comes, let them in, but don't give them tea.

[72:49]

But I heard it directly, and it was, when a guest comes, let them in, and give this a tea, but you don't have to take him to the lavatory. Although that might be interesting, right? You could do your hair up and stuff. Shave heads. Might be fun there. But first of all, before you go to the bathroom, let it go. And I think it's very important when somebody comes to the door, do not hold the door shut. Do not hold the door shut. Let him in. And after you let him in, don't hold on to him. Let him go. Don't, wouldn't you want another cup of tea, some cookies? Let them go. Let them out. So that's the way Suzuki Roshi put it. And then there's another story about Jojo, the washing bowls guy, the Mu guy. A monk came to his monastery and he said to the monk, have you been here before?

[73:57]

And the monk said, yes, I have been here. And he said, well, then have some tea. And then another monk came and he said, have you been here before? And the monk said, no, I haven't been here before. And he said, well, have some tea. And then after that monk left and said, how come when people come and they've been here before and other people come and haven't been here before, you say to both of them, have some tea. And he said, attendant. The attendant said, yes, sir. And he said, have some tea. Can you believe these people talk like that? They didn't. Can you believe these people talk like that? They didn't really talk like this. They just wish they'd talk like this. We just want them to talk like this. So we don't know what they actually said. But what we say is that they said this kind of stuff. Because this is... We want to remember them as clever and humorous and on the ball.

[75:04]

These are the people we want to stay in touch with, right? These enlightened people. They weren't really that enlightened, but we don't care. We want to be with them anyway. And so we think of them this way. And when we think of them this way, if we remember these stories without elaborating on them, We enter into a stabilization and then we enter into the story and then we enter into the ancestors. And Samatha, Samatha anyway is there. Is Vipassana there? See Vipassana in that story? There's Vipassana too. Where's the Vipassana? Huh? Treating everything the same? Yep. Where else? Yes? That's what she said. All three different, but treating them the same. What else? Huh? Say? No? Pardon?

[76:08]

You didn't wash your bowl? Is it washed now? Say it again. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What else? Where else do you see insight in this story? The monk asked a question. The teacher asked a question. He asked a question. The monk noticed these two cases, and then the monk inquired. And then Zhaozhou gave him instructions about his inquiry. Now it's an insight instruction. Wash your... Drink your tea. Actually, I think Samatha Vipassana is in that story too. Not just Samatha, but Vipassana is there. Yes.

[77:14]

Yes. So Hui Nung is a sixth ancestor, and so Bruce is asking, could he have achieved mental stabilization in previous life? Is that your question? And did he carry it over? Well, you know, I think so. I think that maybe all of you practiced mental stabilization quite a bit in a number of previous lifetimes, and that's why you came to this retreat for a refresher course. to get continuing education credit. When I was about to get... My wife is Chinese, so my mother-in-law is Chinese too. And, you know, we have this wooden fish that we hit in the meditation hall.

[78:14]

You know, it goes... for the chanting. That's called a wooden fish. And it's a Chinese, originally a Chinese thing, I think, and then Japanese and Korean also use it. Vietnamese too, I think. But anyway, it's a Chinese thing to use this wooden fish as a drum to time the chanting, to lead the chanting. So my mother-in-law thought that her daughter was quite a catch, that I was very lucky to be able to marry her So, like, if a Chinese Buddhist thinks that somebody's very lucky to marry somebody, then they think maybe that the person, you know, had a lot of good in a previous life. Because looking at me in the present life, she couldn't imagine how I would have... how I would deserve this great opportunity. So the expression is, he must have broken a lot of wooden fish in past life.

[79:20]

And broken means you hit the fish until it falls apart. Or in Zen we'd say, he must have worn out many cushions. But to the Chinese expression, he must have broken wooden fish in previous life. So I think probably you all have broken many fish and wore out lots of Zafus and Zabutans and done a lot of good things in your previous lives to be able to hear the Dharma now. Because, you know, if you look at how good you've been in this life, you can hardly account for how you'd be so lucky to hear the Buddha's teaching, right? I mean, think of all the people who don't have a chance to hear the teaching. You're not that much better than them, are you? I don't think so. Not in this lifetime. There are some people who are really quite... you know, they don't get a chance to ever, like, practice mental stabilization.

[80:24]

They just... So if we can practice it, it's great to practice it and then try to help others practice it somehow. Yes? Yes? It often goes that way, though. Often, but not always. I think so. Mm-hmm.

[81:26]

Uh-huh. Yeah. Calling it something would undermine your stabilization. I think so. I think so. As you may have noticed, I walk around. And sometimes I walk around and I meet people. And then later I hear that the person said, he's so stable. I wasn't thinking, oh, hello, I'm stable. But some people meet me and then afterwards I hear a rumor come back to me that so-and-so said, God, he's so stable. So they feel it. And sometimes when I'm meeting people, I feel they're really nervous because me being stable or me sitting still makes them more aware that they're jumping all over the place. Which I can see, they're jumping all over the place. And... And as far as I know, they weren't jumping around the place more or less before they talked to me.

[82:31]

I don't know for sure. In some cases I do. In some cases I see they're jumping all over the place, and they come and talk to me, they're jumping all over the place. When they meet me, they notice that I'm maybe not, so then they maybe feel even more nervous. But that's the beginning of settling down, is to notice that you're jumping. So they've got to get on the jumping board to calm down. How to do that, so they can pick it up, by example, if they want to. What do you do with the guests that won't leave? The guests that won't leave? You have the guests that come and you give tea and they go away. And some of them say, what happened to the one that won't go? Well, then I think you should let go of them going. So you have the experience here. What breakfast is called a guest that won't go. That's the example Jackie gave.

[83:35]

The anger. It's a guest that won't go. A breakfast that takes a long time to eat. So a guest that won't go, you let go of the guest going. And some guests, you stop trying to get rid of them. Especially if you're practicing meditation, people come to see you and see, how long will I be allowed to stay here? Is this person really patient? Are they going to do what other people do? And most people try to get rid of the person really quick. So if you don't try to get them right away, they say, wow, this is fantastic. I wonder how long this person will tolerate me. So you stay much longer than they even want to, just to see how long you can stand it.

[84:38]

And then you think, well, geez, it's getting to be quite a long time here. Hmm? You're practicing patience. And then you get to the point where you feel like maybe this person is going to stay here forever because they want to see if they can. So with patience, with not trying to get rid of them, with giving up trying to get rid of them, you say, I want you to go. But you don't say that to get rid of them. You tell them that you want them to go because you do want them to go. You're not saying that to get rid of them. You're telling it because you want them to go. But you don't say that to get them to go. You tell them that so they know that they stayed a really long time and now you're in a place where you want them to go. But you're not saying that to get them to go. You're actually patient and it's okay. But you also want them to know that you want them to leave because you do.

[85:43]

It's self-expression, right? It's an example of self-expression. It's an example of another breakfast. So this person has been staying here. The guest stays a long time. You accept that they've stayed a long time. You take that experience in that they've stayed a long time, and you let go of it. You wash the bowl. And now, after you wash the bowl, you can say, I don't want any more breakfast. That's the next breakfast. And you wash a bowl of that. And you see what happens to the person at your next breakfast. You have that breakfast and you wash the bowl. And you go like this. And this is like, you continue to practice stabilization with this guest who's not leaving. And you're having feelings about this, but those are more breakfasts that you're having, which you eat in your bowl. And you continue to practice stabilization with this guest that won't leave. So you're not debilitating yourself.

[86:48]

You're being patient. You're practicing patience. You're practicing enthusiasm, hopefully, about this patience. And you're practicing mental stabilization. You're playing with boundaries too, right? You're playing with boundaries, playing with time. You're playing with duality and you're playing with it in this non-dualistic way. And finally, you have insight and then you say thank you very much to the person for releasing you from all suffering. Because now you see who this person is. This person is Buddha. who stayed to see if you would treat Buddha with utmost respect and not try to get rid of Buddha. And you also see that this person is you. And then you're truly, truly grateful and you get up and leave and say goodbye to Buddha. I'm carrying your teaching to some other people.

[87:53]

Or you stay and talk. and tell the person, and they say, what is it? I say, you can never leave. And so on. The story goes on. The story goes on. The story goes on. More breaths. More breakfast. More dishwashing. Maybe you feel like that. Maybe you feel like that. And maybe you express that to the guest. And maybe the guest says, well, that's fantastic. I'm so happy to hear that. And then they say, would it benefit all beings if I stay? And then you say, yes, it would. Because it would. Now, don't use benefit of all beings as a trick.

[88:59]

Just have it be that that's what you care about. You just keep saying that. Okay? Sophia? If you don't have enthusiasm, if you don't have enthusiasm, then you should decide whether you want to practice enthusiasm or not. Um, well, uh, If you have enthusiasm, then what you have is you have a sense of joy at practicing what is good. If you have enthusiasm, you're full of joy, you're full of divine inspiration at the prospect of doing something good. You're just really joyful about that. You're full of joy at the prospect of practicing patience with this person. the discomfort of this conversation going on a long time or patience with the discomfort of many people are waiting to see you and you don't know if you'll be able to see them because this person is staying a long time or whatever you have some discomfort about that you're practicing patience with that but you're joyful practice patience with this uncomfortable situation and not only you're joyful about how good it is to practice patience

[90:29]

Now, if you're not practicing, if you're not full of enthusiasm, if you're not full of joy, and you're in some situation, you need to decide whether you'd like to practice enthusiasm. And then if you'd like to practice enthusiasm and you'd like to practice patience, then what you're doing is you're verifying that you have an aspiration. Aspiration means to breathe into. You'd like to breathe into something like patience. That's your aspiration. You'd like to do that. You really would. Then what you do is you think, the next phase is you think, how could this practice be done in a steady way? Reasonable way to do this in a steady way. And then next, you start thinking about how good it would be to do that. And just keep thinking about it until you get into this vein of feeling how good it would be.

[91:33]

And then you just crank that until you feel better and better about doing the practice and you feel more and more full at the prospect of this practice. And then when you're full of joy at the prospect of the practice and you've clarified what the practice is, then you just... Enter the practice in the way that you decided, you know, in some sense you're ready to pop with enthusiasm. Part of you wants to burst into the practice because you're so happy about this prospect. But the other part is you've been careful to think about, now what level of involvement would I be able to sustain? So you don't come on with all that joy all at once. You come in kind of like in a way so you can continue it. Otherwise, you might scare somebody when you come back from your depression or whatever, and they're trying to get away from them, and suddenly you're totally happy to be with them. They might be shocked, and you might blow all your energy all at once.

[92:37]

So you come in in a way that you can sustain. And the other aspect of enthusiasm is to rest. or take a break or stop the practice because sometimes when you start doing a practice it's easier to continue by inertia or momentum and reconsider whether you wish to continue. So sometimes you go too long, you overwork, you overexert yourself and you collapse. So you should rest. Rest is part of enthusiasm so that you can come back with energy again after your rest and sometimes you do that are you keep doing a practice that's too easy for you and you stop that practice that's too easy and move on to the next one and sometimes you try practices that are too hard for you they're too advanced and so part of part of enthusiasm is to stop that they're too advanced

[93:41]

Because you can demoralize yourself by trying something that's too far ahead. And it's a kind of laziness and sloppiness to try something that's too hard. So you should say, oops, this is too hard. I've got to stop and go back. Or this is too easy. I'm loafing. So do those and do a more appropriate practice. So that's also part of enthusiasm.

[94:05]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_85.32