Tonight I guess the topic I'd like to offer is the, at first thought I would say, the ecological vision of Buddha. But then I thought maybe better to say the source of Buddha's ecological vision Please remind me later to talk about the difference between those two ways of talking. Also I wanted to say that I heard someone told me that someone who spoke to you in the past said that Buddha was not a Buddhist. And So, not to compare myself with Buddha, but I'm not a Buddhist either.

[01:13]

I mean, I don't like to think of myself as a Buddhist. Somebody can call me a Buddhist, but I don't like the term Buddhist, and I shy away from saying that I'm practicing Buddhism. what I feel more comfortable with is to say, I want to be a disciple of Buddha, and I want to practice the Buddha way. But I don't want the Buddha way particularly to be turned into Buddhism. I don't think the Buddha way is really Buddhism. I think the Buddha way is when people become free of Buddhism. And I think also the Buddha way is when people become free of Judaism and when people become free of Catholicism and Mormonism.

[02:19]

and atheism and communism and racism and sexism and neo-Nazism. Going beyond all these isms, I think, is the good way. I'd like to practice that way. So again, if people often ask me, what is the Buddhist view on such and such? What does Buddhism say about such and such? And if I think they can stand it, I say, well, I'd rather not tell you what Buddhism says, or what a Buddhist says, but I'd be happy to tell you what I say. And I'm someone who's trying to be a disciple of Buddha.

[03:21]

I don't even say I am a disciple of Buddha. That's for Buddha to say. But I would like to be a disciple of Buddha. I commit to be a disciple of Buddha. And in that commitment I'll tell you what I think about things and how I feel about things. And I already did tell you a little bit about how I feel. I'll say this too right away that I think that the source of enlightened visions, enlightened visions of ecology, I think the source of it is a place that, again, is beyond Buddhism and beyond conservationism and beyond Judaism and so on.

[04:28]

That's how I feel. I'd like to offer you a so-called Zen story as a centerpiece. It's a story about the person who we speak of as the founder of Zen in China, Bodhidharma, and it's about his relationship with one of his students who we call the second ancestor. We call Bodhidharma the first ancestor of Zen in China, the founder, and his successor as the second ancestor is called Huike. Now I do not, I haven't heard about this part of the dialogue between them, but I'm just going to, this part's made up by me. But I imagine that the second ancestor went to the first ancestor and said something like, please teach me the Buddha way.

[05:41]

Please teach me the way to realize peace and harmony in this world of living beings. Please teach me how to help living beings who are not yet enlightened enter into the way of peace and harmony." Something like that I think he asked Bodhidharma. And Bodhidharma finally said, OK, I'll teach you. And this is the way I heard, and now comes the part that you probably will find in books. The Bodhidharma instructed his disciple by saying something like, outwardly, cease all involvements. or outwardly, no, or cease all involvements in external things, or cease all involvement in externality, or cease involvement in the illusion of separation between self and other.

[07:08]

And to make a long story short, he says, if you're able to cease involvement in externals, you will be able to enter into the way of peace and harmony. And I just want to comment on that a little bit before I go on to the rest of the story. and that is when people first hear outwardly cease all involvement, they think, well, maybe that means like you're not involved with other people. I think what he means is that we are already involved with everybody. We're already totally involved with each other. totally involved. The instruction is, cease seeing all the beings that you're involved with as external. And this is the way that your involvement with everyone will promote.

[08:33]

This will open the door to the way of being with people that's peaceful and harmonious. But if we're involved with people, even people we love very much, and we get involved with them being external to us, that creates conflict and stress. And it's wrong. They're not external to us. Nobody's external to you. You're not external to me. But you may look that way. And I'm supposed to, Bodhidharma's telling me to cease being involved in the appearance that you're not me, that you're separate from me. You're not me and yet you are me. Because you make me and I make you. I'm your baby, you're my baby. So that's, I think, what the instruction was. But as you may know, if you've ever tried this, it's not so easy to do.

[09:34]

And the disciple, the great disciple, spent seven years trying to understand this instruction. For seven years he went back to his teacher and said, tried to express his understanding of how to practice this instruction. And for seven years Bodhidharma kindly guided him corrected his deviations from what it meant and guided him until finally after seven years he went to the teacher and he said, Now for the first time your disciple has ceased all involvements. And I put in parentheses or in brackets with externals. And Bodhidharma says, You haven't become nihilistic, have you? And he said, no. And Bodhidharma says, well, what is, prove it, you know. What is your situation? And he said, I'm always clearly aware and no words can reach it.

[10:40]

This clear awareness that no words reach, I propose to you, is the source of enlightened ecological vision. It's a clear awareness, but no words can reach it. Nobody's story about it can reach it. And Bodhidharma said, this clear awareness is really the body that all the Buddhas are taking care of. This is the essential mind that all Buddhas protect and care for. Again, my understanding, not again, but my understanding of what Buddha is, is Buddha is the way Buddha acts.

[11:51]

Buddha is the conduct of Buddha. And the conduct of Buddha is the conduct of all living beings. Buddha is the way all of us are actually conducting our lives together right now. That's Buddha. And nobody's outside that. And Buddha's not outside that. But each of us, to some extent, may not realize that. In other words, we may mostly realize our conduct, but not see how our conduct is the conduct of everybody else. The Buddha is the realization of the conduct of everybody.

[12:53]

And that conduct is that everybody, all living beings, are embracing and sustaining each other. that no being, none of us, are not embraced and sustained by others, and no other from us is not embraced and sustained by all of us. That's how actually all the living beings are conducting their lives. And that's what Buddha is, and that's the clear awareness that no words can reach. I just said something about that, I just said the way we actually are together is that we're embracing and sustaining each other, that I'm embracing and sustaining you, and I'm being embraced and sustained by you. I'm saying that's the way we are, but that description doesn't actually reach what I just was talking about.

[13:59]

No words can reach it. Nobody can do such a good job and not all of us together can't do a good enough job to actually reach this inconceivably subtle relationship among all of us. But although no words can reach it, if we cease being involved with externals, Or as I was speaking about yesterday, if we give up our stories — and one of our main stories is that people are external to us — if we give up our stories, we naturally plunge into this realm beyond words. We naturally plunge into this realm of interdependent mutual assistance. The price of admission to the source of ecological vision is that we give up seeing others as external, or we give up actually believing their appearance of externality.

[15:08]

They may still appear to be external, but we don't get involved in that. We drop it, even though it still appears that way. And we still have all our stories about everybody we meet. Everybody we meet we have a story about. tree surgeon, bookseller, Croatian, engineer, state employee. And I could expand those stories, but basically I had stories about all these people, and I am instructed by the ancestors to give them up. Not so much not have stories, because if I don't have any stories, I have no stories to give up. The price of admission to the realm where ecological vision emanates from is to hand over your stories or put them out there for other people to co-edit and contribute to.

[16:20]

Let go of them. Let other people participate in your story. Don't just let go of them in private. That's all, that's fine. You know, sit down in meditation and let go of your stories. That's good. But you may think you let go of them, but not really let go of them. You may thought, oh, I let go of my story of being a nice guy. Well, maybe you did. And I let go of my story of you being a nice guy. And maybe I did. But if I go out in public and I say, I think he's a nice guy, and you people say, no, he's not. I may suddenly feel insulted. You know, or like, you know, I get defensive. I thought I'd let go of the idea. I had this idea he was a nice guy, and I thought I'd let go of it. But when you start criticizing him, then I start saying, wait a minute. You can't do that. That's not true.

[17:24]

He really... He's a nice guy. You can't say he's not a nice guy. And then someone, the teacher comes and says, I thought you let go of that story. Oh, yeah. So you've got to, the stories you think you let go of, you should tell people the stories you think you let go of. Particularly tell somebody who's good at letting go of stories. They kind of know what it looks like, or not so much that they know what it looks like, Because if they're good at letting go of stories, they also let go of what letting go of a story looks like. So you come and tell them that you let go of a story, and then they test you, naturally test you, like they say, oh, congratulations, that's terrific. And then you realize that you didn't. And part of the reason why I thought maybe it's better to say this is the source, that this awareness is the source of ecological vision, is because I don't want to say it is ecological vision, because I think ecological vision is not a vision.

[19:00]

Not a vision. Ecological vision can be unlimited visions. There's not one ecological vision. But this is the source of ecological vision. This is the place from which, when you have an ecological vision, you realize that this vision doesn't reach the source of the vision. That the place, the vision of peace and harmony... doesn't reach the source of peace and harmony. The words you say about an ecological way of life don't reach the source of those words. If I say, this is ecological vision, that sets up that this is ecological vision and things which are different from it might not be ecological vision.

[20:08]

But the ecological vision comes from a place where this vision and a different vision are embracing and sustaining each other. So some people would say, well, of course it's an ecological vision to say we should protect the forests. that is an ecological vision, true. But someone else might have an ecological vision of, it would be good to cut the forest down. And someone might say, that's not an ecological vision, that's a vision of how to destroy the ecology. Again, that attitude is another ecological vision, that cutting the trees down destroys the ecological life, ecology of life. But the person who said that might have not felt that way. And that person is embracing and sustaining you, and you're embracing and sustaining that person.

[21:10]

That person is part of life, too. And their vision is part of life, too. If you have an ecological vision, that would be good to cut the redwoods down. But you're speaking from the source of the ecological vision. You do not hold on to that vision because you gave up that vision and other visions in order to go to the source. That's why you could be an ecologist and actually envision cutting down trees as a way to enhance ecology, as a way of enhancing peace and harmony among beings. Or you could imagine protecting trees as a way to enhance peace and harmony among beings.

[22:26]

You could imagine anything from this place, because this is the place where all imaginations are embracing and sustaining each other in perfect peace and harmony. And this is what Buddha takes care of. The Buddha takes care of the pure, clear awareness that nothing can reach, where there is already right now and always peace and harmony. The Buddha is proposing that there is a realm which coexists with the realm of strife and conflict and war. It coexists with it. It's already the case. Buddha wakes up to this having not seen it before, having not realized it before, Buddha said, I now realize what I didn't realize before.

[23:31]

Now I see that everybody actually is working in peace and harmony. But they don't. Most people do not realize it. Even all unenlightened beings are working in peace and harmony, but they don't realize it. And therefore, they live in a world where they are more or less fighting with each other. And they live in a world where they have visions of the... they live in worlds that they imagine and they hold to those worlds as true. And people who have different worlds that they're holding to, they disagree with and fight with. Not always fight, but... They're on the verge of fighting because these people have different realities and both sides are holding to their reality. Even so, these beings are working actually all the time in perfect peace and harmony.

[24:31]

So in some sense ecological vision is a vision of how people can realize peace and harmony without holding to that vision. If the ecological vision emerges and is held to, it cuts off its roots. And it's possible to hold up a story or a vision again and again or, yeah, again and again without being attached to it. without thinking that it's the only one, but just realize it's the one you have to offer the world. It's just the one you have to offer to the world. And you offer it with your whole heart and with courage, but without attachment. Because you understand that other people and other beings who have different views are supporting you to hold up this view.

[25:45]

And you are supporting other people who are holding up different views from you. Everybody who has a different view from you about what is ecological health has been requested by you to come up with a different view." And they have responded by coming up with it. Because I said, everybody who has a different view has been requested by you to have a different view. And they've met your request. And those people with whom you have a different view, they have requested you to come up with your different view you're giving each other what you've asked for.

[26:48]

We usually don't see that. We usually don't see that the people who disagree with us are giving us what we asked for. We say, I didn't ask for this. Take it back. Or take it away and you go away too. This is quite familiar. This is not Buddha talking. Buddhist says, welcome. Thanks for coming. I invited you long ago. And everything you offer to people is actually what they requested. So someone would say, well, does that mean if you feel like going over and being cruel to someone that they requested it?

[27:55]

And so you should go over and be cruel to them? I would say, no. Don't go over and be cruel to them. I would say, don't. And then if you don't, that's because they requested you not to. What if you do do something cruel to someone? I say they requested it. I say they supported you to do it. I say you could not be cruel to someone unless they helped you. If you understand that, you will not be cruel to people. If you understand that, they won't ask you to be cruel. But if you don't understand that, people will ask you to be cruel. and you might be cruel. But they will support you being cruel.

[28:57]

You wouldn't be able to do it if they didn't support it. And not just the people you're being cruel to, but everybody else and all the Buddhas are supporting you to be cruel too. And if you open to that vision, the Buddhas will not any longer support you to be cruel. and all living beings will not support you to be cruel and the mountains and rivers won't support you to be cruel and you won't be cruel. Because you can't be cruel when you realize how everybody's supporting you and you're supporting everyone. So then no one will ask you to be cruel anymore. But when you think you're by yourself and nobody's supporting you or almost no one's supporting you and when you think you're not supporting anybody else or not very many people then people ask you to be cruel. Sometimes they ask you to be cruel to somebody other than them. Sometimes they ask you to be cruel to yourself. But they do sometimes, not all the time, but they do sometimes invite you to be cruel.

[30:05]

They invite you to be cruel because you reject them as your supporters. And because you reject yourself as their supporter. So then naturally people start inviting each other to be cruel and selfish and petty and frightened. And we respond. We don't always do what they ask. Sometimes they ask you to be cruel and we don't do it. But they still invite us. And if they invite us to be cruel and we're not cruel, they support us in not being cruel. Because we're not. And if we realize that when they invite us to be cruel and we're not being cruel, and when they invite us to be cruel and we pass up on the request, they support us to pass up on it. And if we realize how they're supporting us to pass up on it, then if we fully realize how they're supporting us

[31:12]

to pass up on it when we pass up on it, and how they're supporting us to do it when we don't pass up on it, if we realize that, then we will never be cruel. The realization of how they're supporting us will end cruelty. The realization will sponsor us to never be cruel. But until we have this realization, we are on the verge of being cruel all the time. Because we are already being cruel by denying the kindness that we are expressing to others, and we are being cruel by denying and being ungrateful for the kindness that everyone is expressing to us. So we're already basically cruel by ignoring the friendship that we are conveying to others and that others are conveying to us. And because we're being cruel, the world supports us to make that cruelty known.

[32:21]

And it becomes known, hopefully. And when people have become aware that they're cruel, I say, good. I don't say good that you're being cruel. I don't say good that you're ignoring the kindness that you're expressing to others. But I say good that you become aware that it's cruel to reject kindness and it's cruel to ignore how you love other people. I say that's cruel. I say that's basically what I think is about the worst thing we do is to overlook how we love others and to overlook how they love us. But if you notice that you're overlooking how people love you, and if you notice that you're overlooking how you love people, you're starting to wake up, which is similar to notice that you're being cruel. This is not noticing that they're being cruel to you. This is noticing how you're being cruel to yourself and to them. I think it's good to become aware of our cruelty.

[33:25]

I don't think it's necessarily very good to become aware of other people's cruelty, but I'm not very strong on that point. I think it's good for me to become aware of my cruelty to you and me. That will help me stop ignoring the kindness which you're expressing towards me. Like this lady's leaving, she's being kind to me by leaving. This lady who is not leaving is being kind to me by standing in the back. And I'm being kind to her to care about where she is in the room. And she's not sure that's still so. I know that was, what do you call it, scary talk that I just did.

[34:31]

But that's how I end tonight. I did a little piece of calligraphy here. This calligraphy is a Chinese character, and up in this corner is my name. I wrote my name and also the seal of my name. And up in this corner it says, Maha Prajnaparamita, which means wisdom which has gone beyond wisdom, which is also like Buddhism which has gone beyond Buddhism, and Buddha which has gone beyond Buddha. In other words, the real Buddha which goes beyond Buddha, and the real wisdom which goes beyond wisdom. And my name is the whole works. I translated it into English. In Japanese it's pronounced Zenki. It means the whole works. That means everything, and it means that everything works. The whole works. The universe works. And the way the universe works is that it creates many things.

[35:45]

like many people, many planets, many stars, many mountains, many rivers, many cockroaches, many dogs, many trees. It creates many things. And it works through everything that it makes. It works. It works hard to make living beings. It works hard to make mountains. It works hard to make planets. And it enjoys it. And it also works in perfect harmony It works in perfect harmony. It is a whole universe. And the central character means embrace and sustain. And it means to be embraced and sustained. It means to embrace and sustain every living being, It means to embrace and sustain Buddha. It means to be embraced and sustained by Buddha, embraced and sustained by every living being.

[36:49]

But not just every living being, but also every mountain, every river, every planet, every star. So I offer this piece of calligraphy to you. If you like, you can come up and get it afterwards. So again, I'm not saying ecological vision is, you know, stop driving cars that produce carbon dioxide and switch to cars which, I don't know what, run on water or solar-powered cars. I'm not saying that could be an ecological vision, but I'm not exactly giving you that vision. Jim Herr and I did bicycle over to the gym today instead of driving. It was very nice to do that. That was actually part of my ecological vision and I don't know, did it fit yours?

[37:53]

Yeah. So we had this ecological vision fest this morning and riding bicycles and a beautiful day in Sacramento. A little ecological vision exercise or vision quest. But if we hold to that vision, I'm saying to you, we lose track of the source of where we care about the earth and care about our grandchildren and care about our great-grandchildren and want them to live in a world that's as beautiful as this one and is even more peaceful and more harmonious than this one. on the surface. We want the surface world, the world we can see, to be more peaceful. And in order to accomplish the great work of peace, we need to understand that peace isn't my idea of peace, and it's not yours either.

[39:03]

Peace is what's really happening And the more we get in touch with what's really happening, the more joyful we will be to work for peace, the more we will actually be expressing peace. And as we express peace and harmony, we'll do it and simultaneously not be self-righteous about it at the time we're doing it. So we won't say, oh, I just was peaceful to you. You'll be peaceful to people and you want to be peaceful to people, but you won't be set that your way of being peaceful with them is the way to be peaceful. And people who want to be peaceful in another way is not peaceful. It's not peaceful to think that. It's warlike. My way of peace is the way of peace and yours is not, because it's not the same as mine. Now, if your way of peace was the same as mine, then it would be the way of peace. But if your way of peace is not my way of peace, then it's not the way of peace. This is not, and I say, that's not the way of peace.

[40:10]

But when I say that, I don't want to hold to that and say that's not the way of peace. Because someone else may say, no, disagreeing with other different people who have different ways of peace, that is the way of peace. Okay, now I want you not to hold to that. Well, maybe you have something you want to say in response to this kind of outrageous talk? Yes and yes? Would you talk about 9-11 events in the context of your talk tonight? Would I talk about 9-11 events in this context? I don't really know the causation of it, but it seems to me that there is not in this country, this extremely powerful country called the United States of America, there is not, I haven't seen an expression among the people of America, a deep respect and appreciation of Islam.

[41:46]

I haven't seen people meditating on how Islam is embracing, sustaining Buddhism and Christianity and Judaism. I haven't seen much of that in this country. It looks like this country is very powerful and scaring the rest of the planet that it's going to colonize it. And if somebody's trying to colonize you and they have a lot of respect for you, you might feel like there's some negotiation possible around the colonization. But I get the impression, like many people in Islamic community, are afraid of America because they don't feel like Americans really respect us. You can tell that they do. They're not Islamic, a lot of them. A lot of them are Christians or Buddhists or atheists or Jews or whatever. They really respect us, and they want to take care of us as much as they want to take care of themselves.

[42:53]

They want their country to be wealthy, but they wouldn't want our country to be wealthy, too. They want their own country to thrive, but not at the expense of the rest of the planet. They want their own religions to be healthy and happy, but not at the expense of other religions. They don't seem to get that impression from America. As a matter of fact, they get the impression, like, I think some Americans would just as soon eliminate Islam if they could, because there's some people among the Islamic peoples who are, like, feeling really threatened and attack the Western nations. So I think they'd kind of like to eliminate those terrorists, and if they have to take everybody else with them, too bad, but the only way to make sure they're all gone is to get rid of all of them. Some people think like that, and they kind of pick up on that. So I think they're very afraid, and when people are afraid they get sometimes very wrathful too and very hating. They sometimes hate what they're afraid of. And even though they hate, and even though they're afraid, they can still sometimes plan some real cruel acts fairly effectively, even when they're afraid and angry.

[44:11]

So that's part of a story that one might make up about how that happens is that if you go to Islamic countries, countries that have a high percentage of Islamic peoples, you might have the experience of meeting lots of really nice people who are really kind to you. I got that experience in Turkey. People were very nice to me. I didn't see any, but I wasn't in any sections where there were demonstrations, you know, done by certain people who are afraid of Americans. There probably are things like that going on in Turkey. But I didn't see it. All I saw was lots and lots of people protesting Islam that made Islam look pretty good. That's what I saw. People who were kind to me and to each other and to their children. I saw men taking care of their babies. I saw women taking care of their babies. I saw men and women being kind to visitors. But in those countries there probably are terrorist cells.

[45:20]

And I went there right after 9-11 because I was on a tour from America and everybody, all the other Americans dropped out of the tour. They're afraid to go to Islamic countries, I guess. So I switched to a Dutch tour. And I went. And the general impression I got is that I felt welcomed by the people in Turkey, and I also felt like they didn't understand the U.S. administration. They just didn't understand what George Bush was doing. And they were very happy to hear that a lot of Americans didn't. So I think that the sense of, our sense that these people, that terrorists are not embracing and sustaining us, and we're not embracing and sustaining the terrorists, I think that's our view.

[46:27]

And I think we need to give up that view. I'm not saying you shouldn't have that view. I'm just saying give up that story. and if we give up the story that we're not supporting the terrorists to be terrorists and the terrorists aren't supporting us to be potential victims of terrorism, if we give up that story, or also the story that we are supporting the terrorists and they are supporting us, give up that story, if we give up all those stories, you and I will plunge into the realm where we will be realizing our mutual support. And from that mutual support we will be able to care as much for Islamic people as Christian people, as Jewish people, as Buddhist people, as non-religious people. From that place, from the place of realizing that we're embracing and sustaining all beings and being embraced and sustained from all beings, we will be empowered by that realm of peace and harmony.

[47:30]

and it will emanate through our actions, and we will care as much for terrorists as for victims. We will still think terrorism is cruel, which it is, we will care for the terrorists. And if the terrorists feel that we care for them, they will be converted from terrorism, they will give up their stories of terrorism, and they will plunge also into the realm of peace and harmony, and then they will become messengers of peace rather than messengers of murder. Ordinary people who are not murderers generally speaking, do not realize that they're embracing and sustaining murderers and that murderers are embracing and sustaining them. They do not realize that, even though they're not yet murderers. But without that realization, everyone is vulnerable.

[48:35]

and in danger of either being a murderer or supporting murderers. So now this country supports murder, supports people killing people, even though we're not directly shooting at innocent people sometimes. We support those who do. And we don't want to sometimes, but we don't know how not to. and I'm proposing a way not to, is to learn about the realm of peace and harmony that's actually already going on. And from that place we will be able to embrace and sustain everybody. And when people feel embraced and sustained, they're converted from not feeling embraced and sustained. some people who understand this mutuality

[49:36]

still are challenged to convert some people from a feeling of isolation and independence. It isn't easy. Even a great Buddha might have to try a thousand times with some people to show them how they're loved and supported, and how they have the capacity to love and support. It may take a thousand lessons from a great teacher to convert some people from their feeling of, nobody's being kind to me except for a few, and I only care about a few. and I don't want to care about her anymore, and everybody I don't care about, I don't care what happens to them." To convert a person like that, even for a great Buddha, would be hard, perhaps. But people like that had been converted by great Buddhas. And these great Buddhas that have converted them have sometimes been somebody that somebody says is Buddhist. They don't think they're Buddhist, but other people call them Buddhist. But they're sometimes called Jews, and they're sometimes called Sufis, and they're sometimes called Catholics, and they're sometimes called Protestants, and they're sometimes called Hindus, and they're sometimes called Baha'i.

[50:48]

They're called many names, but it's basically the same thing. If somebody who can love somebody so wholeheartedly that that person cannot hold on to their hate anymore. And they love the person not as a favor, but just because they understand, this person is giving me life, and this is my baby. I'm part of what makes this person. I'm part of the creative process that made this darling thing here. And this darling thing makes me and all my friends and everything. That vision makes it possible to love someone moment after moment, even though they keep saying, you don't love me and I don't love you, or I love you a little bit but I don't love him. It sustains this kind of work. Is that enough about 9-11?

[51:48]

Yes, who's back? Oh, excuse me, the man in the blue shirt was before you. Okay. Let's see. What's your name again? Yeah. So I like the part you were saying about how when you can have a strong view on something and you can present that view with courage to somebody that may be disagreeing with you. Yes. But you should be attached to the view. I wouldn't so much say you shouldn't be attached, I would just say it's possible to present it with a lot of energy and courage and, you know, creativity and all that, without being attached. If you are attached, I'm not telling you shouldn't be attached, because if you're attached, I can work with that. But if you are attached, that will undermine. If what you're holding up is the story of peace, and you're attached to it, then your attachment will undermine that peace message. Now, if you're holding up a message of war, then attachment will help it.

[52:54]

That's why I wouldn't — if you want to promote war, then I wouldn't — I would say, if you want to promote war, then attaching to that view will help. Is it important after you present the view or is it, you know, to indicate that you're not attached to it? It's actually good to present it oftentimes at the very moment you present it. Okay, and how do you do that? Well, you know, your body will show. Like, for example, there's a certain kind of tension that sometimes, I mean, I sometimes present an idea and it's been pointed out to me that there's some sign in my body that I'm a little attached to it. You know, like the hair standing up. My little hair is standing up in the back of my neck. You know, your hair stand up. You know, your tone, you have a certain tone in your voice like, this is God talking.

[53:55]

You know. So it shows in your body often in the tone of your voice which people can see. It might even show in your the way you taste if someone would lick you. It shows in your choice of words. So it's nice what ... At the very moment you deliver it, if you deliver it with non-attachment, oftentimes it just goes right into the person. But if you deliver it with attachment, it sometimes knocks the person across the room because it's got this charge on it, right? It's like it's a nice message but you don't realize the charge and you touch the person and they don't even hear what you said, all they know is, whoa! Because it's got all this self-righteousness on it. It's okay to sell as long as you're not attached to the result. Like I'd like to sell you on something and I tell you beforehand, I want to sell you on this. You know? And if you don't buy it I'm not going to love you more or less. I'm just going to keep loving you forever but I would like to sell you some stuff.

[55:01]

and then you can test me by saying don't want to buy it and see you know did you sense a diminishment in my interest in you And then maybe you do and you say, I feel like you're a little less interesting to me now that I'm definitely not a customer. And the person might say, you're right, you got me on that. I got to work on that, sorry. Or they might say, it's not true. And you might say, prove it. And they might be able to prove it to you that they're just as interested in you as they were before. When they were selling you something, they really felt like they were giving you a gift. And some people sell religions that way. They really are not attached to giving it, to buying it, or taking it. They just see it as a gift and that's it. Yes, in the back. I would like to buy all of these.

[56:07]

To sell it. Conversion, transformation into awareness. One person scraps with talking about it, with reading about it. Yes. Yeah. Although this realm beyond words, this expression, although this realm beyond words is not constructed, Nobody's constructing this relationship that we have with each other. Although it's beyond words, it can talk. Words can't reach it, but it can talk. So the enlightened mind, again, the enlightened mind is not just somebody having an enlightened mind. The enlightened mind is actually how we're all working together. That's what an enlightened mind is. That enlightened mind no words can reach, but that enlightened mind can talk. It can use human speech to relate to humans, and it can also use animal speech to relate to animals.

[57:14]

It becomes whatever the living beings need to get the message from the place that no messages reach. And then it gives messages about how to study the messages, to understand the messages. And if you understand the messages, then you see the way to go back to the place the message came from. And then you're being ecological, but not from any limited view of ecology, but you're being ecological from the source of ecology. The source of ecology is we are connected to nature. We do actually not just care about this planet, it's our baby, and we're its baby. It's deeper than liking or caring. It's that we are it, and it's us. And when you see that, you just have no problem working for it. But also the problem is that those who seem to be causing damage to it, even those who would admit they're causing damage, they are also precious beings.

[58:24]

So if you have a grandchild, a little grandchild, you see that if they had a lot of power, they would do a lot of damage to the ecology. They do a lot of damage to their room and to you. But you still love them and would protect them. And you don't particularly want to protect their harmful behavior. You just assume that that dropped away. But you protect the person and try to educate the person. Does that relate to your question? Thank you. Anything else you want to bring up? Are you scared? Yes? You spoke about being aware of the cruelty that we put on to others and that it may have been invited. Yeah. So then if someone's being cruel to us, I can't help but feel that maybe I've invited that, but then we're not supposed to be aware of the cruelty that others are putting on us.

[59:32]

That feels like a conflict. Well, yeah. You said you're not supposed to be. I'm not saying you're not supposed to be. I'm just saying I don't concentrate on how cruel other people are being to me. I don't focus on that. I do notice it. For example, I do... Am I inviting it as much as others are inviting me? Well, I think you are, but I know I am. A lot of people at Zen Center are cruel to me. I'm just... I'm just a visitor here, I'm a guest, so you're nice to me, but at Zen Center people are cruel to me. And I invite it. And one of the main ways I invite it is by living at Zen Center. You know, I walk in there, you know, being like this, and so I invite them to be cruel to me. Since some of them are not completely enlightened, I know if I go there they'll be cruel to me. And sometimes when they're being cruel to me, I say, you're being cruel to me.

[60:36]

And sometimes they say, right, but it's good for you. And it's true, it is. It's good that they're cruel to me because when they're cruel to me, it helps me understand more deeply that they're embracing and sustaining me. it's easy to feel embraced in a way that's kind of like, oh, you're the greatest. What can we do for you? Even then you might say, I don't know if this is real. Are you really, you know, I don't think you're really being kind to me. This is like a, this is no-no. So even then you might not believe it, but it's kind of easy in a way. And then you say, no, no, no, you're not really being kind to me. They say, well, what do I need to do to make you feel like you're kind? I say, well, give me more money. And you say, okay, here's more money. They say, okay, now I feel like you're being kind to me. That was sufficient. You got it. That was good. So then they made it easy for you. They were trying to be nice to you. They were trying to be kind to you. They checked to see if they were successful. You said no. They asked you what would make you be able to believe it.

[61:39]

They gave it to you, and finally you got it. So that's good. They helped you. That was good. They did help you. And then you saw that they helped you, plus they helped you see that they were helping you. But sometimes they want you not so much to see that they're helping you by the way they're treating you, you know, in terms of like looking like they're helping you, but they want to help you see that they're helping you all the time, even when they're being cruel. So then they push you that way. And like I do say that to some people, you're being cruel to me, and they say, that's right, but you're thriving in it. And it's true, I thrive on cruelty, you know, what appears to be cruelty, because it makes me realize that everybody loves me, even no matter what. So I do invite it. I stand up and say, I invite you to force me to realize the realm that no words reach.

[62:43]

Keep testing. See how cruel you can be to me. But again, these people are doing it to me because they love me. That's why they're doing it. I'm inviting this. These are the people who love me. The people who are cruel to me love me. Isn't that amazing? You have some more questions about this? This is a very important point. Do you understand what I'm saying? I do, but I don't. You do, but you don't. Well, talk about the part about don't first, and then tell me about the part do. I just don't know how I'm supposed to respond to it, I guess. Well, the way I respond is, I feel like you're being cruel to me. You see what they say? And then they might say, you know, something I don't know what to say.

[63:44]

They might say, yes, I am, that's right, and I'm doing it because it seems to be good for your health. And then you could say, well, how so? Or they might say, I'm sorry, do you want me to stop? And you might say, yes. Or you might say, no. This is interesting. I don't know what you'll do. But I don't think you should get, what do you call it, one-sided about it and sort of keep it all to yourself. Like, you feel someone's being cruel to you and you don't do something kind to them. Or you could even say, when you feel like someone's being cruel, you say, you know, I'm having trouble seeing how you're embracing and sustaining me right now. I have trouble seeing... And then they might say, or you might say, and you know what else? I'm having trouble seeing how I'm embracing and sustaining you.

[64:45]

I don't see how I'm supporting you to treat me this way, to treat me in this way, which is hard for me to see that you're embracing and sustaining me. But when you do that, if you did do that, in this tough case of someone appearing to not be embracing and sustaining you, when you turn in that direction, you start to turn in the direction of dropping down to the realm of peace and harmony. You may not get there. If you got there, then there would be no problem with this. So there's the stories of people being cruel to Buddha. You know, actually people trying to hurt Buddha. But Buddha didn't relate to them like this was not their... He related to them as though this was his own body, his own flesh and blood. He put himself forward to meet these people, and in many cases he was successful to wake them up to that they're really one person. He was successful. But he already had this realization to help him.

[65:49]

So if someone's related to me and I don't see that they're embracing and sustaining me, I think the first thing for me to do is say, I don't see that you're embracing and sustaining me. If I can. It's not easy to say such things, but to confess that lack of vision that I have, or lack of understanding of mutuality, And also, when people say that they don't feel embraced by others, when they say they don't feel supported by others, I say, usually, if I don't feel supported by others, if I work more on supporting them, that opens my eyes to that they're supporting me. So, for example, again, my grandson is such a wonderful example because he is cruel to me by a lot of standards. Every game we play, his main agenda is that he wins. And he does what most people would see, including him, as cheating when we're playing.

[66:55]

And I ask him, I say to him, how come you're cheating? And he says, because I really want to win. And if we're playing soccer, sometimes we play soccer, and if he's the goalie, you know, and the goal's like, he's like about a foot and a half wide, and if the goal is like six feet wide or ten feet wide, and if I kick the ball in any part of the goal that's not him, he says, no, no, you have to kick it right to him. And if I'm the goalie, you know, and he kicks someplace where I'm not, and I move over in that direction, he says, no, you have to stop so I can make a shot. And these kinds of things he does, which could be interpreted as him not embracing and sustaining me. It can be interpreted as him trying to win and not at all concerned with what's happening for me. Could be interpreted that way. But the more I'm concerned with embracing and sustaining him, the more I feel like his cruelty and his selfishness totally embraces and sustains me.

[68:05]

You should just join his team. Yeah, I would like to, but he wants me to be on the other team. Because I'm the only team he's got to be other than. So in his case, he's always trying to beat me and stuff like that, but the more I focus on embracing and sustaining him, the more I realize he is totally embracing and sustaining me, and that's why I love to be with him, because he makes me a grandfather. He makes me a wonderful grandfather. And he does it by not just being sweet to me, but by pushing me to show that I can keep loving him when he's totally selfish. That's an easy example, right? I try to extend it to everybody. In continuation of that, it's very difficult to be like the situation where the quote is, such as battered spouse keeps going back and keeps getting battered.

[69:12]

Somebody... What sort of advice? Of, you know, of trying to be detached. Be detached from the view that they're being abused? That they're being abused and trying to... to try to understand what I feel for the person who is doing the being. Yes. It's very difficult. It's difficult, yeah, I know it. It's difficult, yeah. It is difficult. To see something like that and try to embrace what you're saying. It is. If I see somebody If I see two people and I see somebody being cruel to someone, that's difficult to see. Okay? It's difficult just to see that. Then it's also difficult to give instruction to one or the other side or both sides. It's difficult to give instruction. But I still am proposing that if I was talking to one or both of them, I might point out to the one who so-called is being battered, I might say, can you see how you're supporting this?

[70:21]

Can you see what you're contributing to it? If the person can see what they're contributing to it, if they can't see what they're contributing to it, then it's like they've disempowered themselves from the situation. If you can see that you contribute, like for example you say, keep going back. If you keep going back, That's one of the ways you're contributing to getting battered. Like, for me to go back to Zen Center, that's one of the ways I contribute to people being mean there. If I left Zen Center, they wouldn't... I don't think they'd come track me down here in Sacramento. I, like, took an apartment someplace in some unknown neighborhood in Sacramento and didn't tell anybody. They wouldn't, like, move all those people up here to harass me. So when I go back to Zen Center, I'm responsible for the way they treat me because I go there. But I know I'm responsible for that, so I don't feel like I'm not contributing to them, I'm not supporting their abuse of me. So I would point that out to someone who walks into a situation, say, please notice that you walked in there.

[71:21]

You had the power to walk in there. You have strength. And you also have the strength not to walk in there. I'm not telling you what to do, but I would like you to realize that you are supported by many people to be this living creature. And I would say the same thing to the other person who was doing the abuse. I would say, you know, you're responsible for this, but also I wouldn't say you're responsible for this, but she isn't or he isn't. You're both responsible. You're both doing this. And that may be difficult, but I'm also responsible. If two people are being cruel to each other, If two people are not appreciating each other, if two people are hurting each other, I'm responsible too. I'm supporting it too. You're supporting it. That's what I'm saying. So I didn't go and tell them they're responsible. I go and tell them how I'm responsible. And I tell them how I'm embracing and sustaining them, and they're helping me. It's for them to wake up to the fullness of their relationship.

[72:26]

But it's not easy to teach people this. And in the case or the example you're citing, It's not really a danger situation. The danger's already manifested. There's danger for more abuse, but the danger of them hurting each other has already manifested. I'm talking about future harm, the danger of future harm. And the danger of future harm, I think, is in all of us, to the extent that we do not really appreciate how we're helping each other. So this is hard for people, but children are responsible for everything that happens to them. And again, part of what I think helps people understand this is that children respond to everything that happens to them.

[73:28]

So responsibility literally means ability to respond. And children have the ability to respond to cruelty. And they respond in many ways, and the way they respond is the enactment of their responsibility. We don't usually call it abusive when a mother gives or a father gives a child milk that's too hot. if they didn't intentionally mean it, we don't usually call it abuse, we call it not very skillful, but the baby responds to that by crying or turning away. They respond. Babies respond to everything that's done to them. And that is their responsibility. They are responsible, and babies, everybody does exercise their responsibility, is what I'm saying. But just because you exercise your responsibility doesn't mean you're in control of the situation. So whatever you do to me, I respond to you.

[74:31]

But that doesn't mean that you're under my control. But I'm still responsible. I'm responsible for everything you do to me. I'm responsible for it. But not that I'm responsible by myself. You're responsible for everything you do. Both of us can respond to everything you do. Everybody in this room responds to everything you do. And you respond to everything I do and everybody else responds to everything I do. I'm trying to say that this vision of unlimited responsibility will be the source of unlimited skill in realizing peace. Because there's no blame in this thing. You're not blaming the child and you're not blaming the adult. Children are responsible. Parents are responsible, but we are all responsible for every child and every parent and their relationship. We're responsible for it. And nobody is uniquely, independently responsible for anything. Your relationship with your children, you're not all by yourself responsible for that.

[75:33]

They are too. Children share the responsibility of the kind of relationship they have with their parents. Parents, of course, share the responsibility for the relationship they have with their children. But parents who think that they're the only one who's responsible for the relationship with their children are not as skillful as parents who realize that everybody supports them in their relationship with their children, and one of the people who supports you in relationship with your child is your child. My grandson supports me in relationship to him, and if I lose track of that, I will be cruel to him. I will be cruel to him. If I don't realize how all of you are supporting me to be with him, and how he's supporting me to be with him, I will be cruel to him. I don't know when, but eventually the things will fall in place. That kind of vision supports the enactment of cruelty. But when I know all of you are supporting me to be with him, when I know all of you are supporting me to be with gophers,

[76:40]

When I know all of you are supporting, and I'm aware of all of you supporting me to be with anyone, when I feel that support and I feel that I'm also supporting all of you, then no harm will ever occur. And I will be able to be skillful and you will be able to be skillful to show people who do not yet realize that how to realize that. And when they realize it, they will be kind to each other on the surface. They will look kind and that surface kindness will manifest the profound kindness which we all are totally immersed in all the time, our Buddha nature. which we never leave, we just lose touch with it. We just ignore it. We just forget it. We just can't find it. Because we're living in the realm where we think, this person supports me, but this one doesn't. And I support this person, but I don't support that one. This is the ordinary realm we live in. This person's kind to me, but this one isn't.

[77:42]

And I may feel that way, but I have to train myself not to believe that. I have to believe that he's supporting me and he's not. even though I look that way, I want to get over that. I want to not believe that. I want to believe that you support me as much as my grandson. And I want to see that everything that everybody does with me and everything I do with everybody else is an enactment of mutual support. And the more I meditate on that, the more it seems like people agree with it. Because generally speaking, the more I meditate on it, the more when I meet someone I feel like I'm meeting my own body. my own grandson, my own granddaughter, my own wife, my own baby, my own body. And when people see you looking at them that way, they are converted from their idea that they don't care about you. And certainly they're converted from the idea that you don't care about them. So it's possible to walk up to somebody who has the intention of hurting you and they see in your eyes that you love them.

[78:49]

And they dropped. And there's so many stories in not just the Buddhist tradition, but in the Islamic tradition, the Christian tradition, the Jewish tradition, and other traditions of people approaching people who have realized universal love with an intention to hurt them, and seen and felt that love for them, from that person, and they were able to snap out of it.

[79:17]

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