So we were on this case last time in Anfan, Bill the Cat. And I'd like to give you a homework assignment on that case. And the homework assignment, I want you to plant the case, so to speak, in your life. so that you kind of like swallow it so it's genuine. And I feel like that colon is... I feel like if I keep that colon, if I swallow that colon, if I take that colon into my life, that this speech,

[01:05]

of the action which will, which will, say, the cat will come forth in some unpredictable fashion. I'm not saying what it will be. But I'd like you to take the koan into your life, plant it in your life, carry it in your life, and I'd like you to tell me how that is. How do you live in your life? And in what way do you keep remembering or keep realizing that this kohan is in your life? What kind of a meditation would you do in order to settle this kohan into your life or settle yourself into the kohan?

[02:06]

I'd like you to write something down about it. I'd like you to think about that and try to see if you can find some way to do this. And then write down what you're going to do to keep this call on. Keep this call on in your life all the time. For the rest of your life. And I would suggest to you that there's plenty of room in you. You can get this call on in there and there'll be room for other call on too, so don't worry. And I think that the meditation practice by which you bring the khan into your life will find some harmony with other meditation practices you do to bring other khan into your life. But in particular, I want to know how are you thinking, how are you feeling, what kind of awareness do you have such that you're bringing this into your life? And I also, I would say that bringing it into your life is similar to what will you do, what will come from you to save the cat, or what will come from you to make peace in the world.

[03:23]

It's similar. You don't have to think of it just as taking in. You can also talk about taking it in as putting out. So like I said on Saturday here, Your response to this calling could be to fix your bicycle or to recycle or, you know, plant a tree. Or even plan to plant a tree. I don't know what it would be. Okay, so would you do that and give me a written thing? By next week? There is a class next week. Yeah. Why wouldn't there be a class? I mean, Thanksgiving?

[04:23]

What? I may have misunderstood the schedule. I think the last one, the first one begins next week. Is this the fifth class? Yeah. Has this been five classes already? It hasn't been? I don't think so. I thought the new classes started next week now. I think the new classes start the week on, I think the new classes start on the 22nd. So next week is the last class. And Green Gulch has six week classes. So next week is the sixth Green Gulch class, I think. But Green Gulch class does not meet a birthday night, so they don't ask him to meet a birthday. Yeah, Thanksgiving and this one. So we can have two five-week classes before the session. Green College can get six, two six-week classes before the session.

[05:26]

Okay, so allow us to put our name, address, health phone number. Put your name, address, and telephone number on it, and birth date, and all the other kinds of things. So in your parenting mother's amazing name? So I can get into your bank account and see if you can really settle this? How do you know what is written or not? What? That's the next case. Did you ask me how well I know? That's what the next case is about. Very well organized clip. Another thing I want to mention to you, where some of you may know, is that this colon is actually two colons. It's the first one. I mean, it can be broken up into two colons. And in the Blue Cliff record, it is two colons.

[06:28]

It is the first one where Nan Tuan has its interaction with the monks and cuts the cap in two. And then the second colon is called Xiao Zhou walks off with his sandals on his head. They're probably one story after another, but they're two separate colons in the Blue Cliff record. And I think it's helpful to see them as two. They go together, of course, but I think you shouldn't try to use the second one to understand the first part. You should deal with the first part and then start all over again with the second part and then keep doing that. But don't try to... You don't use the second part to understand the first part until you've understood the first part. When you look to the first part, then you can use the second part. So if you feel okay about that, if you've got your homework assignment, any problems with that, any resistance? Oh, wait a second.

[07:30]

Okay, so do you feel okay about going on to the next case? Well, let's see. Then, as they say, come and get it. If you need a case, here's some cases. Nobody needs a case. Wow. Liberated group. Well, one person needs a case. Don't take that one. Please don't take that one. Anyone back. Any two? Person with person. Oh, no. Is that all, Mr. People? Okay. Did I already passed it out last week? Is that why you don't need it? Huh? Oh, no wonder. Sorry, Vicky. Weren't you your last flip-flip on this?

[08:32]

I think he made several more copies for you today. Okay, now... In the last case, in case number nine, we saw the great Zhao Zhao come into action. And now he's the star of this next case. And I'd like to mention that I'm kind of thinking about having kind of a Zhao Zhao festival. He's in lots of cases in this book. And he's in 12 cases in the Blue Cliff Record. And he's in seven cases in the Mumon Khan. So he, like, I don't know, he's really, his teaching or his way of living or his way of practice has really been well, you know, well remembered. A lot of A lot of intense love has been focused on his life and passed down now for more than a thousand years.

[09:46]

He's a real resource, and so, I don't know, we might want to sort of hang out with him. People might want to look at some other stories about him while we're doing this case. But let's just start with this case. Excuse me, could you tell us, what is his name in Japanese? Joshu. Joshu, oh. So, his teacher is in Anshuang. What is for me? I don't know. I'm proud.

[11:01]

Shall we read the case? Case number 10. On the road to Taishan, there lived a certain woman. Whenever a monk asked her which way did the road to Taishan go, a woman would say, right straight on. As soon as the lot would go, one would say, Oh, my priest, he goes to that way too. My mom told Joshua about this. So I have to say, Wait while I check out that one for you. And also that servant will say, The next day he went out of the hall and said, I have checked out that one for you. This story is the 10th case here, and it's the 31st case in the Mumon Khan.

[12:27]

I want to look at the Mumon Khan. OK, let's try to get a sense of what this story is and see if we can tune in on it. So the first part is, by the way, they usually say it's an old woman. And yeah. And I mentioned that Green Gulch is another story, another very well-known story about an old woman.

[13:36]

And there was a monk, a male monk, who lived in Sichuan. Sichuan is a very big province, which is in the east, southeast part of China, right next to Tibet. And this monk lived up in that part of China, and he was very well studied in the teachings of the Prajnaparamita. He was also well versed in the teachings about precepts. He was a very strict, virtuous monk, and very well educated in particularly the Diamond Sutra. And he heard about the And the Zen people in the southern part of China said something like that they could directly indicate the mind of Buddha, that they had skillful means by which they could directly realize Buddhahood through their experience.

[15:05]

And hearing about this, I forgot exactly the point that got him riled up, but anyway, he decided to go down and destroy the southern devils. They packed up his sutures and commentary and set about a long walk, probably several hundred mile walk. And he went down into... Punan, which is next to . And in those mountains were then temples. But also in those mountains, they had these old ladies stationed as various kinds of then Buddhist monks approached the then monastery to attack. with Zen teachers.

[16:06]

They had these women out in the mountains to cut them down before they got there. And they stationed in these little tea shops. These guys would be walking along, and they wanted a little refreshment on their way to do the heavy duty Dharma destruction. And so they'd come up to these little tea shops, and these ladies would serve the tea, That would be pretty much the end of that. So this monk was going and looking for some Zen monastery to turn upside down. And he stopped at his tea shop where this lady was selling tea and tea cake. And they said, well, I'd like them. And she said, What do you got on your back? And he said, oh, this is a Buddhist sutra event commentaries. I'm an expert on the Diamond Sutra and other projects in the Parameda literature.

[17:11]

And she said, oh, I have a question for you. And if you can answer it, I'll sell you some cakes to refresh your mind. You can answer it. I won't tell you any cakes. And so he said, OK, go ahead. Ask me if he said. In a diamond century, it says that the present mind cannot be got at. Future mind cannot be got at. Did I already say present? And past mind cannot be got at. Which mind will you enjoy or refresh yourself on my cakes? And he couldn't say anything. That was it. He didn't get any cakes from her. And she said, there's a guy around here you might want to visit.

[18:12]

His name is Dragon Pond Mutant. So he kind of walked off somehow, but he's still carrying his packs of citrus. And then he went to Dragon Pond, which is also the name of the temple. The guy named Dragon Pond. The temple is Dragon Pond. So he goes to Dragon Pond. And he goes into the temple, and there's nobody around. And he says, I came to see the Dragon Pond. But I don't, but no, I don't see any dragon pond. I don't see any pond, and no dragon appears. And the dragon pond was in the room, but behind his screen. And he stepped out and said, now you have really seen the dragon pond appear.

[19:14]

He came in the room, he didn't see anybody, right? He said, I don't see a pond and I don't see a dragon. So then Dragon Pond comes out and says, now you're really seeing Dragon Pond. It's a bit of understanding, but do you understand? So that's a nice setup. And then that night he came to Dragon Pond's room and stood in attendance until late at night. And Dragon Pond said, well, it's getting late. Maybe you should leave. So can I tell you this guy's name yet?

[20:18]

His name is Dushan, which means Virtue Mountain. So Dushan went out to leave, but then he got to the door and he saw it was dark outside, so he said, it's dark outside. So Dragon Pond said, oh, here. He lit a candle for him, a lantern for him, and gave him a lantern. And the guy took the lantern And then Dragon Pound blew it out. And then the guy had that, what do you call it? Enlightenment experience. Don't you think you would under the picture? Of course, now you've heard that. That can't happen to you freshly, you know, because you've heard this. But that's a good one. Anyway, he then bowed to Dragon Pan, and Dragon Pan said, what are you bowing for? And he said, I will never again doubt the teaching of a venerable Buddhist priest.

[21:26]

And then the next day, Dragon Pan went up to the hall and said some good things about this guy. And then the next day, the guy burned all his sutras and commentary. Anyway, this lady kind of set him up for it. And so here's another one of those ladies who's running one of these little snack stands up in the mountains of China. In this case, it was in North China, at the base probably of the mountain called Wu Taishan. Wu Taishan. It means five terraces or five plateaus. Mountain. It's a mountain that has five peaks. And Manjushri Bodhisattva supposedly lived in these mountains.

[22:28]

So a lot of monks go there on pilgrimage to visit the auspicious and holy five-peak mountain of Manjushri. So this lady's got this snack stand somewhere at the base of the mountain. Monk walk by and when they walk by they say which way to go like you know probably there's a fork in the road or something. They say which way to go and she says right straight on. Remember the Joe Pine show? Didn't he say straight ahead? What did he say? Did he only have one hand? One leg and two hands? Did he say straight ahead? I forget. I don't remember. Does anybody remember? How many people have not heard of Joe Pine? They were better off. Have you heard of Joe Pine? Never heard of him.

[23:33]

Wow. Do you remember what he said, Jim? I think he's straight ahead anyway. This lady said, right straight ahead. And then the monks would walk off, and she would say, you look like a good monk, but you act like that. So I get that happened several times. I mean, one time a monk came by, and that happened. And then afterwards, he went and told Zhao Zhou. I told any student of Zhao Zhou, and Zhao Zhou said, Just a minute, I'm going to go check her out. I'm going to go check her out, or I'm going to go investigate her. Here's another translation. Another one is, I'm going to go see through her. So he goes there, and he walks up to her, and he says, which way to Wu Taishan?

[24:34]

And she says, right straight on. And he walked off, after she walked off, after he walked off, she said, you look like a good monk, but you go off like that. And Jojo went back to the temple, assembled his monk and said, I checked her out for you. I investigated her for you. Okay? So I I think it, I find when I, that what I do, what I find myself doing, and particularly, I find myself in Zhao Zhou's body, okay? I met this woman, and I say to her, I'm saying this, and my monks have come and told me, right, about that. They told me that they said this, so I go and I say the same thing. I say, which way to Kaishan? And the face says, right straight ahead, or right straight on.

[25:44]

And then I walk off. And then behind me, somebody says this thing about me. And in that situation, I check her out. In that situation, I see through her. I picture her behind me, talking to me from the back, right? So my thing is, the script's already laid out, right? I'm gonna say the same thing the monk said, and then she said the same thing I heard she said before, and then I do the same thing the monks did, and then she says the same thing that she said to the other monk. All the time, I'm checking her out. First, I'm checking her out when I'm talking to her. Second, I'm checking out when I listen to her, and I can maybe see her face. Can you see her face? Then I check her out when she says this to me. Then I walk off and I check her out when I'm walking off. And then I hear her talking behind my back and I check her out or I investigate her.

[26:47]

So I try to see now what does it mean that I talk to her? What is that? That seems like the key thing is, what is that? And I think that that is the same thing that's in the middle of, I think at the same place, exact kind of the same situation as an entrepreneur holding up his cap. There's a light there at that point. I think it's basically the same situation. In that case, he made the situation dangerous, and then he did something. In this case, the danger is not so clear. But I think the same danger is here.

[27:54]

So I am directing all of us to put ourselves in that situation and see how that is. What is that situation? He's not telling us anything about how he checked her out. how he saw through it. So it's open for us now to check her out, to investigate her. Yeah. Maybe it's not important, but... Important to speak up, though. That's true. When you just, just before when you were telling the story, The way that you described what she said after they walked on sounded as though she was saying something negative about them. And I read, a fine priest, he goes that way too, as an applaud.

[28:58]

Nice little boy. Or, what a good fellow. And I wonder if you know something I don't know, or if it doesn't matter, and that's just different interpretations of Well, it's not too much that I know, but you don't know, but somehow I've read the Mumong Khan, and there it translated more like, you look like a fine priest, you look like a fine and honest priest, and yet... Okay. And yet you go off like this too. In other words, too means like those other guys. You're another one of these guys. You do the same thing. It's kind of that thing. But it's not like you're calling them bums. The contempt there is somewhat subtle. And she's not going to be insulting Buddhist priests and breaking precepts or anything, but she's kind of disappointed.

[30:02]

She's kind of saying, you look like a fine monk. And of course, you imagine if you saw Jojo, he would look pretty good, right? But he did the same thing. He did the same thing, too. Yeah. Yeah. Something like a monk asked Zhajo whether he's all that's either nature. Zhajo said, yeah. And a monk said, Something like, why then we descend into this hairy bag of water or whatever. Something like, no, and yet we will in the transgraph.

[31:04]

Can you speak up, please? I'm going back to the past story. Yeah. How about the way people talk, the group groups, and that's all. I think I was like, but mom started working through the fall to the orbit. She said, wow. She started working through the group. We got . But how about when he was going through the motions of the other month? What? He what? He did the same thing every month.

[32:12]

And maybe he's fallible, but... And then so the question would be, is his fallibility the same or different from his, is he a fallible person who's seen through the woman? It seems like he's different because he's doing this with awareness. And what it seems like is the first set of monks just sort of said, oh, okay, took off down the road. It's just sort of like they've got this mindset. She said, yeah, that way. It's okay, go off. And he's doing it, but he's doing it in present moment. Yeah. And by doing that, he catches her. Because she's falling into her own trap of expecting. The teacher's got to protect the students. The teacher's got to protect the students than the lady. Yeah. The loud searcher. Yeah. [...]

[33:12]

Yeah. Well, you know, it's like there's a Buddha in the middle of this story. It's also okay to walk around the Buddha, okay? We can walk around the Buddha, but also I ask you to remember, what did, not remember, but look at the question, what did Zhao Zhao see? You don't know it. You don't even know if the woman said it. I'd say, you know, I'm not saying I do know what he thought.

[34:18]

Right. And yet I'm asking you, what did he see? No, it doesn't matter. It's like gold and gold. If we were to have it, but what he had to have it, it was easy to, it's only going to work somebody up there. You have to know the water, the pot or cold, it doesn't matter what you put in. It's important that you have to find. So when you're pointing directly to the student's mind, it's saying, well, I kept her out. It doesn't do anything. Except, you've got to go cut her out yourself and figure out how to do that. Right. But I'm asking you now. I'm asking you now to check her out. When I ask you what Jojo saw, I mean, what do you see? I would have to go see her myself. Yeah, so now, go see her. Oh, yes, she is.

[35:20]

I don't think so. How would you know that she's not here? Because she's not. When they asked her, what do you think of Berkeley's philosophy, the idea of how he was treated instead of a dispute? That's what put her off. Okay. She's not here. But that is dead. What do you mean by she's not here? Just that. She was not here. The principle was the same. The woman doesn't matter one way or the other. What is the principle? The principle is you have to know if water is cold by drinking it yourself. Okay, what do you know? What is the water? No, I'm not. I'm telling you I'm not. I'm telling you I'm not. So how are you going to prove that I'm asking you to engage in speculation when I say I'm not asking you to do that? So you're here to trust your perception?

[36:23]

What else was it that he's in for? People already trust their perceptions. Okay. Now that they go out and say, how do you get from here to there? Okay, they don't trust their perception. Do you think Jojo trusted his perception? That's good for Jojo. I'm asking you, do you think he trusted his perception? Well, I know. At the end of it. I've had a student yet. That's what I knew when I said, told the people it's not worth a cent. That's very little. You see? But if I tell you, or you tell me, she's right here, she's not. Yeah. What do you think the woman is? Let me ask you, what do you think the woman is? What do you think the woman is? What do I think is she's not important? That's the first time. What do you think is important? That you trust your own perception.

[37:26]

But your perceptions are delusions, aren't they? Well, let's put it this way. No, I don't think so. I think we need to take clarity. I think they can be clarified, and it's all we've got in. It's all we've got? Yes, I agree. Now we've got something in common here. We agreed, all we've got is our perception. You got some perceptions now? I think it made it clear. Okay. So do I. Do you think your perceptions are delusions? That's all I've got. It doesn't matter if it's a delusion. Okay. So I'm trying to get this straight now. So do you agree that all you've got is delusion? No, I didn't say that. No, I'm leading you into this trap. What? Are you resisting it? No. Are you resisting it? No. I'm telling you what is exactly here right now. That's what I've got to go by. But what I'm proposing to you is that all you've got is delusion. That's all you've got to deal with. And are you telling me you trust the delusion? Mm-hmm. What do you mean by trust it? Do you trust... What do you want to happen?

[38:28]

Do you trust them have delusion? All right, I didn't even know that. I didn't even know that. But I didn't know that. But I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But I didn't know that. [...] Listen, I'm talking to you about you now. Don't use this story. Let's talk about you. You're the one that's talking about things not being important. What are you talking about that stuff for anymore? If the woman's not important, fine. But you said if you trust your delusions, then is that really what you do? You trust your delusions? Okay, so here's what I'm proposing. Here's my view. My view is I always got to work with evolution. Okay? That's my view.

[39:29]

Okay? And that we don't have, like, uh, You know, we don't make our delusions better and better and better and better until finally they're really good delusions and then we're okay. That's not my understanding. My understanding is all you've got is delusions, all I've got is delusions, and what Buddhism is about is understanding that what you've got is delusions. Not what you've got is to be trusted. What you've got, all you've got is something that you can't trust. But that's all you've got and you shouldn't try to trade that in for something else, like Wutai Shang. I'm just saying that's my view. Yeah. That's a good view. I think, yeah, you bear it down on the elite. It doesn't get anywhere. It is simply the view which is the same as enlightenment, that's all. It doesn't get anywhere. But it is enlightenment. Enlightenment is to see that delusion is delusion. That's what enlightenment is. It doesn't get anywhere though. What I trust is that delusion is worthy of study.

[40:44]

But I don't believe the delusion is something other than delusion. I don't believe my experience is reality. I believe my experience is just simply my experience. But that reality is much more complex than my little view of things. And my trust is that by thorough study of my own little illusory field, I will be liberated from my illusions. And I will understand that that's exactly what they are. And I don't have to go anywhere to do that. That's why I don't have to go to Wutai Shan. You don't have to study delusion. What? You don't have to study delusion. You have to study delusion. Definitely. Definitely study delusion. All right. Exactly. So that's why I ask you these questions. When I ask you these questions, I'm asking you to study your delusion or illusions or your perceptions. So when I ask you these questions, that's what I'm asking you.

[41:46]

I'm asking you to look at your experience. I'm not asking you to look at some other place, some other time, some other person. And to me, asking you what did Zhao Zhou see is the same as asking you how do you feel. Exactly the same question. But It's in terms of this story. And I want to be able to talk this way and that way and that way and always have you understand that what I'm asking you to do is not be caught by this babble. OK? That's what I'm always trying to do. And I'm trying it different ways, not the same way over and over. Then you say, okay, and I'm not fooled by that, and I'm not fooled by that. But switching from story to story, which are always the same thing as saying, who are you? What is your experience? But these stories, sure enough, if I say to you, what does Zhao Zhou see?

[42:46]

You may, for a second, you think, wait a minute. He couldn't be asking me how I feel or something like that. But that's always what I'm asking you. But can you remember that no matter what the question is? Like, for example, if I hold a cat up and say, speak, or this cat will be cut in two. Do you understand that I'm asking you to speak about your own delusion, which in this case, the cat being held up about to be cut? Well, sure enough, people get paralyzed because they think, oh, this is not, I'm not being asked in this discussion I was at yesterday. But they get stuck. They don't act. Each of us has something we get caught by like this. Some people will be stopped by asking them, what's your feeling? That'll stop them. But most of them still don't get caught by that, but they'll be caught by something like this. Like sometimes if you saw questions that people would say, you know, 52 follows 51, follows 49. Now what about, and they start getting these numbers right, and you ask them the simplest question, and they can't answer because you said 52 followed by, get caught by the word.

[43:54]

52 follows 51, follows 50, follows 49. It's the same as saying, what did Giao Joe see? You could also say, you know, that now that we see the monarchy, so they must care about the cat for some part of it. But right away, by studying in Maryland, you don't care about what to do, which is better, okay. You might kill it damn bad. They care about what they think the cat is. Yeah, and they care about what they think about the cat, therefore they can't respond. They're stuck. We should study illusion. There we agree. We should study it.

[44:57]

And we're studying it hopefully right now. Hopefully I'm doing it while I'm talking. But, you know, it's hard to stay with it while you're talking and while you're listening. But that's what I'm asking. And I ask you again for your permission. What did Zhao Zhao see when he saw through this woman? Can you see through this woman? Where did you get that from? Where did this come from? That was my no. Where did no come from? That was my aunt. I know, but where did it come from? What did you see? Blind wall. You see a blank wall and you go like this? As I respond to your question and a blank wall comes up. What caused you to go like this? What would make me go like that?

[46:00]

Yeah. When? Back to go a little bit early? No. Did you go right on here? Doing high tech though. I'm glad you're here because I'm glad you're here because just in case anything happens. That's right. He's got two hands that can be used. Okay. I meant that. And Larry, you should object to that. You know, you're not mistaken. You're not mistaken. in the store was an old Japanese woman that was my friend. Now this is real, this Japanese woman is real, but you know, sooner I can put myself into the store. And I take it that the story is simply factual. And I don't know, I have to be very careful here, you know.

[47:03]

Do I sit over here so he can't hit you? I will say that I don't know, you know, but I can make a reasonable assumption. Heck, if, [...] any way it's similar to my period with the total capital. Then he saw a woman of great compassion and purpose that were clear that we help them coming off. Job in the same pageant in Mount Toronto, Job in the people with the cat. Somebody said that one of the commentators said that a popular commentator said that both Zhaozhou and this older woman

[48:26]

were good friends, they were good friends and they kind of, I forget what he said, they said something like, I forget what he said. And then he said, said that they're good friends with equal ability and their encounter ended in its high. Yeah. They're good friends with equal ability and their encounter ended in its high. And you monks up today, you Zen monks, should pay attention to what's right under your feet. Something like that? Did I say that there? No, it's a shorter version. You monks should pay attention to what's right under your feet and go forward in the way. So the guy said that this commentator doesn't really know what a koan is.

[49:32]

Now, again, I think it's OK to walk around koans, even at a great distance. But before we get into this commentary, I want to say that the people who are commenting in the Mumong comment very clearly say The point to bear down in this koan is how did Zhaozhou see through the woman, which is the same as how did the woman see through Zhaozhou. Notice the difference between somebody saying, these two people who are good friends of similar ability and the encounter entered in the Thai, and you Zen man should pay attention to what's right under your feet, which is true.

[50:36]

You should pay attention to what's right under our feet, definitely. And we shouldn't be going off to Wu Tai Shan to meet Manjirshi Bodhisattva, but because the problem is in our mindset. Did you say mindset? Yeah. Yeah. The problem is in our mindset, in the monk's mindset. Not that we have a mindset, but that it's set. The problem is in our attachment, okay, that we already have before we even meet the lady, whatever she is. That's true. That we should pay attention to what's right under our feet. We shouldn't be going off to some other place. These people are friends. All that's true. But notice the difference between that kind of comment and what Does it mean how did Zhao Zhou see through this woman? How did Zhao Zhou check her out? See the difference in the two kinds of comments? They're both words from somebody. One is sort of not the way you work on a koan.

[51:37]

The other one is the way you work on a koan. And there's no answer to how, we don't tell you the answer of how she saw it. We just see you saying, that's the place you put the pressure of your effort, is on that point. Now, you may find another place to put your pressure, but this is what the Mumong Khan people say. Now, I'm willing to have more comments, but, and then after that, I think we look at this book. and see where they seem to be... I'd like to read this commentary in this verse to see where is the pressure point of this koan. The koan of the cat, the pressure point is he's holding the cat. He's gonna kill it if he don't speak. There's the pressure point. The pressure point in this koan is not so clear. That's why they say. The place is not even in the story. You have to picture, he's there, he's checking out the woman.

[52:41]

He's not telling you how he's checking out the woman, but he tells you that he did check out the woman. At the end of the story, he says, I checked her out. That refers you back to the center of the story where he checked her out. The checking out thing is he's not telling us anything about how it happened, and we're supposed to go to that place and put pressure on finding out something that nobody's telling us anything about. In the other case, we're forwarded by, and we can imagine that situation. It's a situation just like we're in right now in the world, and we're doing what we're doing. Okay? So before we look at this commentary to see where this commentary is pointing, You and you and you. Was it you three? One, two, three? No. One, two, three. Two, three, four. One, two, [...] three, four.

[53:42]

One, two, three, four. [...] One I was going to see her. I'm going to see her to check her out. And then I asked her a question. You know? I guess what I wanted to say is that when we're checking it out, we're hearing it. It seems like the young people are hearing quite a bit. Yeah. And if I go check people out, they'll hear something. You know, I see. I don't necessarily have to entrench a relationship with them. Right. You see. Yeah, you investigate with your eyes and your ears. Yeah. In this case, when we hear, if we imagine or we think, if we imagine or we think,

[54:43]

It's just like being in this room. Now I think I'm in this room with you people. It's the same as if I imagine that I'm in China in the Tang Dynasty and I'm going to talk to some old lady. The same level of reality. The same, it's imagination. I'm imagining this room. I can also imagine the Tang Dynasty. Now, it's different. But still, right now, how do I check it out? How do I investigate her? She is this. She is the universe that I'm in right now, isn't she? And the universe is standing behind me saying, you look like a good priest, but you do that too? You walk around just like the other guys. That's what the universe is saying to me right now. But even though she's saying that to me, I can still check her out.

[55:47]

How do I do that? And do I do it in accord with Nan Chuan in a discipled way? Well, I don't know, but I like trying to check it out. How about you, do you want to say something more before we go on? Yeah? Okay. Yeah. Yes. Okay. The ready thing comes to mind. The ready thing, yeah. What did he see? He saw... He saw... The illusion of knowing something. You saw somebody with the illusion, but she knew something.

[56:54]

But she knew that when X happened, that meant Y. How did she sleep again? Well, she saw it through each month who came by. She didn't sleep again. I don't think so. Well, I don't see that. No. I mean, maybe that's the third point, but I didn't get there. I saw that she saw through each month who came by and that Zhao Zhao turned it. So that she was tracking around? Right. But it's always like that. that says they reached a time. That they reached. Mu Muang Khan didn't say that. Mu Muang Khan didn't say that.

[57:57]

The commentator in the Muang Khan said that there is a popular interpreter who said that. And he said that person doesn't know what a koan is. Okay, what the Mumon Khan said before the commentator has anything to say, the Mumon Khan says that she was pretty good. She could, she was like, they're using a military analogy, she could run the campaign from her tent. She could sit in her tent and, and plan the whole military campaign. Like a great general. However, she didn't notice that a thief or a spy came right into her tent. Okay, so she was, so if she was in this encounter. It doesn't say that exactly because it also says later that if you ponder deeply you'll see that they're both at fault.

[58:58]

Mumankan said, she was good but she didn't notice that this thief came right into her tent. And then it says, could enter into the encampment and, I don't know, something like harass the fortress, but he didn't act like a really magnificent person. If you ponder deeply, you see that they both were at fault. Now you tell me, it says. How did Zhaozhou see through the old... Partially? How do you do that? Because that says to me that

[60:03]

Tell me how you partially see through something. That he was able to sort of trap her in her own delusion, but he was trapped in his own delusion. Because the only way he could do it was by taking the same path as the other monks. I can't hear what you're saying because I'm still listening to what you said before. I can't adjust. Because you set yourself up. You said he partially saw through. Can you partially see through something? No, can you partially see through something right now? Please find partially seen through something and then we've got something to work on. Because if you could partially see through something, then you can see this old woman. And then we can see what it means to see through her. I'm not saying you can't partially see through something, but if you can do it, please do it right now.

[61:11]

See through... Partially see through. Partially see through a shade of... but still operating from a base. Are you partially seeing through something right now? Yes. Show me what you are. Yes, because I partially am certain I'm right. Partially certain that you're right. Yeah, that's good. You're partially certain that you're right. Yeah. Okay. Partially certain. But to operate clearly. Stay there, speed man. Don't run away from this place that you are. This is a good place. Partially certain that you're right. What's that like? It's like knowing, but not quite seeing. Okay, now check it out.

[62:22]

Are you checking it out? I'm losing it. This is very close, I think, to how Jarjo checks her out. Okay. Now, what do you have? Anything? Do you feel clear? That's the old woman, you hear?

[63:33]

You can be completely obstructed or see through it, but in the middle, I think partially, that's the place you can come from, and that's the place you can work on it. You don't quite feel certain. You don't quite feel certain. You know, this same guy, Zhao Zhou, a monk said to him, did somebody say something to you something? I think a monk said to Zhao Zhou, what's the way? And Zhao Zhao said, ordinary mind is the way. And the monk said, well, should we point ourselves towards it? And Zhao Zhao said, if you point yourself towards it, you turn away from it. The monk said, well, in that case, how will you know you're doing it or not? He said, knowing is delusion, and not knowing is sort of like blanking your consciousness out, whatever the special kind of delusion.

[64:53]

When you find the way of no doubt that's vast and unobstructed, what would have to do it right along? It's like knowing without seeing. It's like being certain without knowing. It's like seeing without knowing. Clearly seeing and yet you have no justification for it. And what you're seeing is seeing gardenias or something, you know. Are you smelling gardenia? Are gardenias poisonous? Huh? Good, I ate one. Or just a little bite. That was accidental. I sucked my face down and then I just took a little bite. Why does it?

[65:55]

Not these. Oh, I thought in my room. Could you put them in my ring? Huh? Yeah. They were all wet. dew on them. And I got the dew on my face. I got my face down and I got the dew on my face and then, in the process of licking the dew off my face, I accidentally ate a garden man. And I thought, I wonder if these are poisonous. I thought they were orchids. In my ignorance. They are? See? That's what I thought they were orchids in my mouth. I thought I was a goner, but no. Okay. Let's read the commentary and see if it agrees with, let's see if it, if how it goes with these, these guys who wrote the Mumon comment. Again, Jojo screwed up maybe, and so did the old lady, but still, what, how did he see through her? Because we're, we're screwing up too, but still, how do we see through her?

[67:02]

Even we mortals as corrupt as we see, perhaps. Gathering, with gathering and with release, the pole in his, the pole by his side, able to kill, able to give life. The balance is in his hands. Passions, demons, outsiders, all rely on his direction. The earth, mountains, and rivers all become plate banks. But tell me, what sphere is this? On the road to Taishan there lived a certain woman Whenever a monk asked her, which way does the road to Taishan go, the woman would say, right straight on. As soon as a monk would go, the woman would say, a fine priest, he goes that way too. A monk told Jojo about this.

[68:05]

Jojo said, wait till I check out the woman for you. Gyojo also asked the woman the same question. The next day, he went up to the hall and said, I have checked out the woman for you. The woman on the road to Taishan used to follow Wuzhou out and in the temples on the holy mountain Taishan and had fully gotten into Majushi's saying, before three Before 3x3, behind 3x3. That's a kind of one of our... It's a saying that appears often in Zen. Before 3x3, behind 3x3. What? This woman got into it. See, she followed this teacher, Ms.

[69:07]

Wuzo. He was, he walked around, he was moving around these temples up in his mountain peak. She was a lay disciple of his, right? And she studied with him and the koan she worked on was, my mujizhi is saying, in the front three by three, in the back three by three. That's what she was working on. And she studied, according to this story, she studied thoroughly and she was a, She got a good understanding of this. This was her gate. And then later she hung around. This is the case, too. This is part of a picture of Chinese Zen. Some of these way people who lived around the temples, studied in the temples. So as you approach these temples, you'd run into these people who weren't regular monks, but who were trained. I mean, this is called the goldmage of Zen, right?

[70:11]

Well, it wasn't just in the temples that people were studying Buddhism. They were studying Buddhism all over the place, and people were intensively studying the teaching throughout the countryside. So it was just like we wanted to be here, right? with all of us all over the city, all over the state, all over the Bay Area, people studying Zen and working on their practice. She was one of those people. Whenever she was asked by a monk which way the road to Taishan went, she would point out the great road to the capital right under the sun, saying, right straight ahead. You know, all roads lead to Rome. There's a Chinese expression like that too. The great road to the capital right under the sun.

[71:13]

In other words, all roads go to Chang'an, capital of Tang Dynasty. Same kind of idea. All roads lead to Rome. Right? This monk did not make an obstacle of doubt. and went right off. The woman said, a fine priest, he goes that way too. This woman too had a hook in her hand. How many intelligent free men has she been snared? Any comments or questions so far? When she says, go right straight ahead, that's actually a kind of Zen cliche, right?

[72:14]

How do you practice Zen? Straight ahead. I hear you all talking about that, straight ahead, you know? How do you practice Zen? Sit and let the flower of your life blossom. Okay? How do you practice Zen? Go straight ahead. That's a regular Zen phrase that you were using, that her teacher told her or something, right? But... said it. There was, oh, by the way, another comment of the verse in the Mumong Khan is, the questions are the same, the answers are the same. Sand in rice, thorns in mud. So, she said that thing, but there was a thorn in there, or a piece of sand in there. A little hook in there. It sounds like a nice little, first of all, It's something ordinary person would say. Second of all, it's a Zen pray. But either way, there's something in there. There's a hook in there. So he walked off without knowing the hook and then she pulled on the hook.

[73:16]

So they felt embarrassed, right? The way is safe. And you can go ahead with confidence. But it's safe for the very reason that you can be caught. You don't have to wonder. You can go ahead and practice... Because you will make mistakes. It's safe because it's dangerous. Giao Zhou... Buddhist path... He's one of them great, what do you call it? Road repair people in the history of Buddhism. You know what I mean? Does that make sense to you? If there weren't these barbs, then the road wouldn't be safe because we wouldn't be able to make mistakes and learn anything. Since the monk couldn't cope with her, he tattled on her and said, and Giao Zhou said,

[74:35]

Wait till I check her out. For you. So in that sense he's going, you know, picking on my boys? Okay. Check you out. He slaughters everyone with doubt. The old fellow who is gay but doesn't rest with mine. What did he plan? He wants to determine the eye of the source. So that's the, okay? Anybody here want to determine now? I have source. You do? Good. I hope so. I hope so.

[75:36]

What is the white thing about this? We won't discuss that in public, did you say? Yeah. This isn't really public. I wouldn't talk in that way in the public. Anyway, the eye of the source. How did Zhao Zhao see through the lady? This is an invitation to the eye of the source. This is the I of the story, okay? Zhao Zhao asked the same question and the woman answered the same way. Some immediately talked about them as two parts, saying that the first time the monk was helping the woman and the latter the woman was helping Zhao Zhao. Only Chen Shui has said, the preceding monk questioned and was answered in this way.

[76:52]

And later, Zhao Zhou also questioned and answered in this way. But tell me, where was the examination? I say, seen through. He also said, He was not only seen through by Giaojo, she was also seen through by this monk. I say, not only has she gotten Shren Trey involved, but me too. I like that. Lanya said, even the great Giaojo walked into the woman's hands and locked his light. Even so, many misunderstand. I say, don't judge others by yourself. Muji of Da Guishan said, all the monks in the world only know how, only know to ask the way from the woman.

[78:01]

They don't know the depth of mud right under their feet. If not for old Zhajo, how could the heights of attainment of the sweating horses be revealed? Even so, the need to borrow Kientong's eulogy to do it. In ancient years, the pain in the essence is no mistake in transmission. The ancient Buddha Jiaojo succeeded the Nanjuan. A dead tortoise loses its light due to the designs drawn on it. Even the steed's chariot and winged chaser are encumbered by the halter and bridlet. Having checked the woman's chan,

[79:04]

told the people it's not worth dissent. So I have a little thing to say to you in the later part of this class, and that is that I'm feeling really secure and happy during such a dangerous practice. and being encumbered by halter and bridle as I am. What is my halter and bridle, ladies and gentlemen? The teaching you send yourself to internal damnation for the sake of this poor dear, sweet, lovable, kind people.

[80:13]

Great. Or another way to put it, my bridle and halter are all of you. Hugging me around, throwing me in the pits. I checked her out for you. Did you check her out for me? I checked you out for her. So I leave you with two homework assignments. One is the one I said before, and the other is how, I could say, how do you see through the woman?

[81:14]

But it's not just you're seeing through. It's also the way the ancient Buddhists see through that I'm interested in. I want to know how you do it this year, but also I want you to find out the way that they all did it too. This transmission that they're talking about is, you know, goes in both directions and goes vertically and horizontally. Okay, so next week, um, we can, uh, I'll get your home sinus back, hopefully, and, uh, do a little bit more in this case, and we'll start Case 11. And Case 11, I mean, this is a pretty good case, and we've had some other good ones, but Case 11 was a lot of fun because it's about zen sickness.

[82:22]

Zen sickness. Not sick zen. Zen sickness. So, this is really important. Not that any of you have got zen sickness yet, but if you read this case, you may be able to have zen sickness better. Zen sickness is pretty vast stuff. Any other comments? No? Are you... That was kind of... Turned into a machine there. I think the machine's very happy. It has all this stuff that's been helping you. This machine's very successful. Are you happy? Thank you for coming, though, even though you're not. They are in the mountains there.

[83:20]

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