There's something I'm a little ambivalent about mentioning and that is time is time is. Time seems to be. I'm ambivalent about it because we could spend all our time talking about time passing. But occasionally it seems like we should, not we should, I should just maybe mention it. And so you can take a moment to notice it too, that the practice period will be over Seems so long at the beginning.

[01:04]

First week or so. But now it's like we're on the downhill slope. Some of our lives are like that too. Not much time left, so Let's enjoy each moment. I don't want to I don't want to take the whole class to talk about this, but it might happen that way. But this this idea about no expectation is one that. I brought up repeatedly and people are responding to this idea of living with no expectation or lovingly caring for beings with no expectation.

[02:12]

And someone said to me recently that he kind of feels he does have expectations. particularly maybe sitting in the Zendo during Seishin, during some periods of meditation, he was expecting the period to end, sitting very much involved in the expectation of the end of the period, and he kind of confessed that. He also said that maybe he's He thinks he's going to keep expecting periods to end. He doesn't see an end to this expectation thing. I think it's good to be open to the possibility that these expectations won't stop, that we'll continue to practice meditation, especially during painful

[03:21]

periods of meditation, and we'll continue to expect an end to the pain. And sitting and expecting or looking forward to the end of the period or the end of the pain is an example of what we call outflow. It drains us to be sitting in pain, looking forward to when it's going to end, leaning forward to when it's going to end. or leaning back from the pain just in case it doesn't end soon. Anyway, these kinds of responses to the pain drain us. And again, the practice of compassion is to try to develop the appropriate relationship or the appropriate posture to pain. Appropriate posture being one that doesn't drain us of our life in the middle of pain.

[04:29]

But maybe we won't be able to stop expecting and we'll keep draining ourselves if possible. The suggestion has been made repeatedly over the centuries to try to sit in pain or pleasure with no expectation. In other words, to try to sit with no outflows. This is the path of joy for the bodhisattva. This is the way you can really work with beings in the world of suffering, is to end these outflows. In the meantime, if the outflows are still going on and you're still looking forward to something, Like I must have late in the evening, last period of meditation, I do sometimes look forward to going and taking a rest.

[05:31]

I do sometimes think, oh, how nice, the rest is coming. Again, the idea of the end of the period or the idea of Something in the future can be there without leaning towards it or expecting it. So the idea of people being free of suffering, or myself being free of suffering, can be there without me leaning towards it and draining myself. Anyway, again, this is proposed as a possibility. And some people say they actually have been able to live that way. These are the Buddhas. sattvas were able to end these outflows. Once again, even if we can't end them, Dung Shan says, first of all, try to identify them. See if you can find them.

[06:35]

So this person I'm talking about was able to identify his outflows. If we can identify the outflows, even if we can't And the outflows, maybe we can have a balanced attitude towards the outflows. Even if the outflows are coming because we're off balance and we're drained because of our imbalance. Maybe we can be balanced in our meditation on the outflows. If we can learn more and more about the outflows, when we understand the outflows fully, that will be the end of the outflows. In the outflows, study the outflows. And if you study the outflows, they may be able to dry up. One more thing I wanted to bring up, another aspect of this, is someone asked me, well, what about aspiration?

[07:40]

Can there be aspiration without expectation? Or isn't there expectation and aspiration? Of course there can be. But the actual bodhi, the actual thought of enlightenment, one needs to have an expectation. There can be the wish to attain supreme enlightenment for the welfare of others before yourself with no expectation. As a matter of fact, when this thought really does arise, it's yours for yourself. It's something that arises in communion with Buddha, who has no expectation. So this thought of enlightenment, really the authentic thought of enlightenment, doesn't have expectation and doesn't have outflow. So aspiration doesn't need to have expectation.

[08:45]

And if aspiration does have expectation, then aspiration has outflows. So it is not the proper aspiration of the bodhisattva. It is just a highfalutin. It's another kind of greedy thing under a very good label. But that kind of wish, that kind of aspiration is not the aspiration that's born in communion with Buddha. The authentic thought of enlightenment is not something you generate on your own. That kind of thing probably would have, might have, probably would have expectation. But the thought of enlightenment doesn't have expectation. That aspiration... OK. Doesn't have all those. So I just I just say that. And I know it's hard to imagine.

[09:49]

But one other thing I want to say is that there are two truths. And it doesn't look like the first. The truth of worldly convention is going to go away. The truth of worldly convention is that. is that there is a worldly convention that does successfully cover over the world. It does a good job. And in that world, there is this expectation stuff going on. And in that world, there will be and continued covering of the truth. But again, that world is identical with the world where there is no expectation and there is no covering and there is no gain and loss.

[11:01]

So that's case 21 in the Book of Serenity. The two Zen monks One's sweeping the ground, the other one comes over and says, you're too busy. That he's sweeping, he's probably sweeping to try to get things clean. Expecting that it's going to clean the monastery for him to do this. If he was cleaning with no expectation, with no expectation, for where the dust went, his brother wouldn't have come up to him and said, you're too busy. But he probably was actually trying to clean the place up and wishing that it would be clean as a result of his sweeping. He fought for it. But then he said, you should know there's one who's not busy. There's one who's not sweeping this monastery

[12:11]

to get it clean and expecting that it's going to get cleaned by the sweeping activity. There's one like that too. And then you said, well, are there two moons, two truths? Yes, there are two truths. There's a truth of somebody sweeping here with expectations and outflows and is soon going to poop out. And there's also somebody here who has has no outflows, and will never give up sweeping with no expectation, not even having the expectation that there'd be sweeping. Yes, there are two moons. So then he raises his broom and says, which moon is this? So is it the busy one or the unbusy one? Is this talking to you with expectations? or talking to you without expectations.

[13:13]

Which one is it? And if it's the ones, then it covers the one that doesn't have expectations, but it's identical to that, too. So this is a point of deployment. start to move towards a somewhat different topic. But now hands are coming up, so then I'll maybe never get to the topic. What do you want to do? Huh? What? What? Okay. Okay. This is like a new topic, but the new topic is, well, let me just say it, get it out of my mouth.

[14:17]

Samatha vipassana for the bodhisattva. Samatha means calming or stabilization, or sometimes translated as stopping or resting. And samatha and vipassana means contemplation, observation, higher insight, or just insight. So there are these, the meditation of bodhisattva is presented as calming and insight or stopping and contemplation or stabilization and higher vision. These are different ways of talking about samatha vipassana. And in the Theravada tradition they talk about this and also in the Mahayana tradition they talked about this.

[15:28]

But in the Zen tradition we don't we somehow are not articulating this these two dimensions of this in Zen literature. And a little bit of it. And I'd like to talk to you about, well, what shamatha and vipassana are, how they are for bodhisattvas, and also to talk to you about maybe some of the reasons why They aren't discussed in Zen. The sources for the teachings on calming and insight in the bodhisattva tradition is the Samdhi Nirmocana Sutra.

[16:30]

There's a chapter in that sutra called sometimes called The Questions of Maitreya, The Questions of Love, but sometimes the chapter is also called Centering Practices or Yogic Practices, and it's about calming an insight in the Bodhisattva tradition. I'd like to talk to you about what's taught in that chapter and how it relates to which I've discussed with you that are taught earlier in that sutra about the characteristics of phenomena, the different types of insubstantiality of the Buddhist teaching.

[17:35]

But again, by way of introduction, I wanted to articulate something which might help you also and you might get confused, and that is that samatha and vipassana are used differently in the early tradition and within the Mahayana. They're used differently in the sense of, particularly they're used differently in terms of the topic. In the early tradition, the foundation of the path is personal virtue. So like in the Visuddhi Magga, the path of purification, the first part of the First big section of the book is about virtue. But the foundation of bodhisattva path is compassion. That's more fundamental than anything.

[18:51]

It all starts from this. Bodhisattva path does. No virtue has to be developed. to enter deeply into the practice, but the source is bodhicitta. So in both the early tradition and the Mahayana, the way common insight works, the process is the same. But in the Mahayana, there's a new, if you excuse the expression, metaphysic, in other point of view on what ultimate reality is and the universe works. It's a shift from liberating the person, liberating oneself, to liberating the entire universe.

[19:56]

So there's a affirmation of the value of action in the world in the Mahayana. Whereas in the Theravada or the early teaching, there's more of a feeling of just let the world go, let it go by, which is very close to renouncing it. The bodhisattva also renounces the world, but also wants to dive back into it and act compassionately in it, which is another reason why we need to have no outflows. We have to want to dive back into the world with no expectation, hoping the best, being concerned for all,

[21:04]

with no preference. But the early practitioners were more like, let the world go by. And there seemed to develop even a kind of contempt for the world. That's not really letting it go by. Letting it go by is not letting it go by with a sneer. Just let it go by with a calm and slight smile. But it turned into a kind of sneer because you want to let it go. You want to make sure you don't not let it go by. So kind of like a little bit of sneer might, you think, help you not get caught by it. But certainly the Buddha was not sneering at the world originally and taught his students how to be free of the world, people in the world. So the Mahayana is coming back and saying, let's re-enter the world.

[22:09]

So bodhisattvas and the early practitioners practice alert awareness. But this is a funny way to put it, but The Bodhisattva achieves freedom metaphysically rather than psychologically. Metaphysically in the sense of your understanding. What? Your understanding is that since you're here, to achieve universal salvation, it makes sense that there's still a world to save. Now bodhisattvas, when they understand no self, have an experience, have a psychological, there's a psychological effect of understanding emptiness, which the bodhisattvas experience.

[23:18]

But the world still which makes sense to the bodhisattva, that there's a world there of beings who need to be helped. But there's another possibility where when you, you know, so you understand no self, and this works and this actually transforms your psychology, that that's the path and you've finished the job. But that's not the bodhisattva's liberation. The bodhisattva's liberation, in some sense, is metaphysical. It has to do more with their ongoing interest in the liberation of the entire universe. But there's freedom for them in that, in that they are working for the salvation of the universe rather than their own.

[24:24]

Now you can't work for the salvation of the universe if you don't have some psychological relief through understanding emptiness. But even though you understand emptiness, you can still see it's full of suffering beings and want to help them. And wanting to help these beings who aren't free is the joy of the bodhisattva. There is a great joy in understanding emptiness. which the bodhisattva needs, which is also from outflows. But the real joy of the bodhisattva is to be working in the world for the welfare of all beings. Early tradition that you've heard about and can understand is the joy of tranquility and repose. The nirvana of the early tradition was blissful and ecstatic.

[25:33]

The bodhisattva joy is the joy of working of all beings. So, the topics for vipassana for the bodhisattva are in some sense different from the topics for vipassana for the earlier tradition. The world you're looking at as a bodhisattva is more extensive and more extensive, more thoroughgoing engagement in the world. The introduction. Now another thing I'd like to say is that I think A lot of what I've been talking about has been, in a sense, shamatha practice.

[26:35]

And although, again, we do not say in Zen that our zazen is shamatha, is calming practice. Dogen said, you know, the zazen I teach doesn't belong in the category of concentration. And yet, a lot of what I've been talking about, in a sense, could be seen as calming practice or tranquilizing practice. As a way to rest your mind. And I think that also a lot of people think that zazen has nothing to do with analysis or investigation.

[27:43]

People often say, well, should we investigate that? And I often respond by saying, no. But vipassana involves investigation and analysis. So where does the investigation and analysis come up in Zen? Well, if you look at Dogen's writings, you'll find him say many, many times, investigate this. They analyze very often, but he says, investigate this, investigate this, investigate this, examine this, examine this, examine this. He says many times. and koan practice in Zen, I think, really as vipassana, as analysis and investigation.

[28:48]

One of the people who is performing the Zen teaching is the fourth ancestor of Zen, Dao And if you look at him, he both sort of put an end to the teachings of Samatha and Vipassana. And he also taught Samatha and Vipassana. I'm not saying you won't see any signs of shamatha and vipassana after him, but not too much because of him. But he also taught both of them. And he said, you know, that if you stay in the calming practice too long, your practice will deteriorate. You'll fall into oblivion. But if you go into vipassana, you'll get dispersed and distracted.

[30:02]

And I've had conversations with people here about this too. Where they're doing calming practice and they start to do certain kinds of contemplations and they get too excited and dispersed and they go back to calming practice. So this kind of thing is going on with some of the people here trying to balance calming and insight practices. Is this a calming practice or is this an insight practice? Outside don't activate the mind around objects. Inside

[31:07]

No coughing or sighing in the mind. Still all conditions externally and have no grasping internally. Don't grasp anything in your mind. Give up all seeking. Is that a calming practice? Is that a stabilization practice or an insight practice? Seems like both. Seems like, in a sense, it's like both. You see this kind of teaching. almost like squishes them together.

[32:13]

But, even if it does combine the two, the full extent of insight practice is not being demonstrated. in this depiction. Also, Dogen says in the same text where he says, this zazen he's teaching is not in the category of concentration. He says, that which doesn't think. Or think of the unthinking. Or think of not thinking. What's that? Is that calming practice or insight practice? I think it's insight.

[33:26]

Then he says, he abbreviates it, but the monk says, how? And he says, non-think. How do you think of that? How do you think of not thinking? How do you think of that which doesn't think? Now is non-thinking a stabilization or insight practice? Huh? Think non-thinking is insight? Non-thinking is insight, you think. You think the first one's insight? I think they all integrate. I think they all integrate. Each step integrates it. What do you think the first one is integration or insight? Think of not thinking or think of the unthinking or think of that which doesn't think that's the first part.

[34:31]

So you see it switching back and forth there. It keeps going. Yes. Pardon? It's very calming. You could hear it that way. What? Yeah. Most people, most people actually try that, get upset, get disturbed. But when you the way you heard it was calming. It takes concentration. So the beginning of the question is, you know, a monk asks a virtual Buddha, when you're sitting like that, what kind of thinking is going on with you? So then the virtual Buddha tells the monk what kind of thinking is going on with him when he's sitting still. And he says, not thinking or the unthinking.

[35:44]

That's the kind of thinking that's going on for him. In other words, this is Buddha's thinking. And then the monk says, well, how can that happen? How can I practice that way? He says, non-thinking. So is non-thinking like not activating the mind around objects? Is that like non-thinking? You don't think so? Just a second. So just a second. If there's an external object, if there's an external object, what is what is what is non-thinking with the external object? Yeah, well, we got we got the external object. OK. Non-thinking. What is non-thinking do with the external object?

[36:46]

It doesn't it doesn't activate the mind around it. Doesn't get activated around it. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So that's not activating the mind around objects, right? Not involved with the object, right? Not trying to stop being, not trying to suppress activity or activate the mind around the object, right? Is that how you would understand? What do you think Bodhidharma is instructing? Don't do what? Right, just stay where you are. Non-thinking is what happens when you stay

[37:50]

Non-thinking is what happens when you stay where you are, or non-thinking is staying where you are? Is non-thinking what happens when you think? Is non-thinking what happens when you think? Is non-thinking what happens when you stay where you are? Or is non-thinking staying where you are? Excuse me a second. Is non-thinking... When you just stay where you are or is non-thinking just staying where you are? What happens when you just stay where you are? No, no. Staying where you are isn't happening, isn't anything. Staying where you are isn't a happening. If you stay where you are, what happens? No, non-thinking is staying where you are. That's not a happening. What's happening is happening, right?

[38:54]

And what's happening? Is thinking happening? Is thinking happening? That's one of the things that happens, is thinking. Now, what kind of thinking happens when you just stay where you are? In other words, in non-thinking, what kind of thinking happens? What? No, no. We got non-thinking. What kind of thinking? Insight, yeah, and what is it called in this context? It's called thinking of not thinking. That's what's happening. Of course, Buddhist thinking happens. If anything happens, it's Buddhist thinking in that situation. Yeah. Non-thinking, I would say non-thinking is that when an object arises, that's it.

[39:59]

Right? Something happens, and the practice of non-thinking is that's it. You don't add anything to it or subtract anything from it. In other words, you don't... There's quiet and stillness around objects. All right? But that's kind of like, it's a little bit like a stabilization practice in a sense. Except that we've got things happening. And we're talking about how we respond to things happening. How do we respond? We really don't respond by any activity. So that's Bodhidharma's instruction is outwardly don't. Activate the mind around objects. Outwardly, still all conditions. Let all conditions be quiet. And inwardly, also. In other words, inwardly, don't grasp anything. But in a way, this sounds like a calming practice.

[41:10]

And the way statement, he thought that was, he found that calming. But a lot of people I know who try to practice that get very upset. Think of that which doesn't think or think of not thinking. The way they approach it gets them upset. So this thinking of that which doesn't think, That's what's happening. That's the world of insight, which is very upsetting. Potentially, if you're not stabilized. So Dogen says you use non thinking to enter into thinking of not thinking. Which again makes it makes a little bit like stabilization.

[42:24]

So something's happening and you don't need to stay still. That's not good. I'm not talking about that. You said non-thinking. Well, you said that you were thinking non-thinking. And that sounded too busy. That's right, that is too busy. Non-thinking is not you thinking non-thinking. Non-thinking is, if there's a thought non-thinking, The mind just let that be there. So I just, this thought just crossed my mind, which I'll just share with you, and that is it's tricky to do insight meditation.

[43:35]

Tricky means it's potentially upsetting. As I said earlier, fourth answer, Darshan says, if you do too much, Insight meditation gets dispersed and distracted. I'm not saying that these practices which I mentioned are calming practices. I'm not saying that. But I'm considering that maybe that's what they are. They aren't called shamatha practices. But they're being put out and they kind of have something in common with shamatha practice. They are kind of stabilizing. They are kind of like sitting still. And yet, after the second ancestor, the instruction of making the mind like a wall,

[44:44]

Sometime later, the second ancestor said that he had no involvement, no further involvement. And the Bodhidharma said, well, is that like nihilism or is that like death? He said, no. He said, I'm clearly aware and no words reaches. And the words I said the other day. Without thinking. I don't think was a little while. I think with many years. But does that mean he X X habits of involvement? That's what he's saying. doesn't sound like inside practice and yet to get to that place where you could actually work with objects and not get involved would be lots and lots of insights would be happening there.

[46:04]

Well just like it could be involvement with people. self-involvement, if there's any other kind of involvement, that would be welcome. Welcome as a type that would be dropped. Because the bodhisattva is committed to get involved with all beings, to get involved extensively in the entire phenomenal self. They're going to go all the way to the limits of that, and they need to understand how to do that. That's part of their wisdom, is to go to thoroughly to the world without getting entangled, and to use all entanglements as opportunities for liberation. So if you could do that, then you would have no involvement. But it would be in the situation of having plunged into all involvement, you didn't have any.

[47:09]

And could that be nihilism? Could that be not caring? Well, he said, I'm right there. But, you know, the words don't reach me. So this is the same kind of detachment that was that was operating in earlier Buddhism. Same detachment, same freedom from entanglement, same insight. Could you speak that louder? No, it's not that they don't arise. It's that they don't reach. In other words, there's no entanglement.

[48:14]

Right. I don't need to add in an awareness and awareness. Just one awareness is enough, I think. There is a possibility of awareness of awareness, but I don't know what that would be or mean. I suppose. I mean, the possibilities of entanglement are infinite. So there's probably that, too. But that just says that there'll be another trap that one could fall into. So I'm just going to like throw you thrown into the ocean. Now, here we go. Here we go. It's going to be total chaos. Yeah. Doesn't matter.

[49:19]

But please, practice these practices now. Keep practicing making the mind like a wall as we open the floodgates. See if you can practice activating your mind around the objects that you're now hearing. See if you cannot grasp anything in your mind. Regardless of whether we call that stabilization or not, regardless of whether it's both Shama and Vipassana, it is not the fault. It is not. Opening full picture of what insight practices can be. But now your conversations will. Yeah. Technical technical. In Sanskrit, it's sha.

[50:34]

Osamata? Osamata. Osamata. This is technical. Right. So this is an example of insight practice. That's, you know, doesn't have enough stabilization to deal with these objects, which your mind, because you're Zen, activated around. Because you so much, you know, because Bodhidharma, well, I got to listen to Bodhidharma, right? Got to listen to Dogen and then I have to listen. Now I'm listening to Sthiramati, so, oh, it's going to be a mess, you know. it's really hard right one possibility is maybe maybe what's happened here with these bodhidharma and the fourth ancestors maybe they have united shamatha and vipassana in such a way that you can't see them separately anymore maybe they're together

[51:51]

But some sutras teach them separately. And by teaching them separately, what's the advantage of that? You can practice them separately rather than in this confusing way where they're squished together, which sounds different from doing them separately. somehow the world has created that there's a Zen school which doesn't talk about them separately. If you look at that teaching and then look at the Samantabhipashina, then how are you going to integrate the two? And that's what I'm trying to, that's what I'm bringing up to you, is how are we going to integrate Zen teaching, which maybe, you know, is this practice of one. Because the Darshan taught, you know, the one, always practice, always concentrating on the oneness of everything. But there's also the multiplicity of everything.

[53:00]

So how do you take the practice of oneness and apply it to the great multiplicity and complexity? Well, insight practice is up for that very clearly. Yes. My trauma to have her to be really passionate. It has to be shaman to their functioning along or. But now there's a little bit different objects. Topics of the topics are a little different. Shamatha starts with, usually, in the sutra it says, the object of shamatha is non-conceptual objects. The object is conceptual objects.

[54:02]

So you first practice shamatha on non-conceptual objects. And when you realize shamatha, then on the basis of that realization, you start to look at conceptual objects. What's a non-conceptual object? Breath is a conceptual object. The aggregates are conceptual objects. What's a non-conceptual object? Non-thinking is not a conceptual object. It is not activating the mind around objects. It's not. It's it's a it's a way of being with objects. Start where? Start shaman is working with non conceptual objects.

[55:13]

Can't least. That's right. You can't. That's right. Non-thinking is like somebody said a minute ago. It's just staying where you are. And then something happens. Now, if in the place of just being where you are, you now think happening. Now, it's not if you're still just if you're still continuing to just be where you are. The shamatha practice, the stabilization is still there. Now you're being with what's happening, but with stability and calm and flexibility. And now insight practice starts. You're not doing something. Something is happening, but you're not.

[56:13]

Non-thinking is still going on. In other words, the shamatha. But now you're starting to. be exposed to various kinds of concepts. And you're working with the concepts, and you're examining the concepts. But before, you weren't examining the concepts. Concepts were arising, but you're to not, huh? Just let them be. Now, There's going to be extensive investigation. You're going to start asking questions. You're going to study Collins. You're going to interact with teachers around these questions. That's what you're going to be finding out is where does this all stuff come from? What you know, how does this happen? Well, the inquiry is also studied. You know, that's that's going on, right? You're also aware of the fact that you're inquiring.

[57:19]

The one who's not busy is there while you're busy inquiring. Yes, they're united. But this is why Zen students usually don't. I shouldn't say Zen students usually don't. But particularly in Soto Zen, we don't. Usually we don't usually follow Dogan's instruction of investigate, investigate, investigate. Like he says, you know, what is it in showbook says, you know, it's like life is like riding in a boat. You go out in the water, you know, in the boat, but in the boat isn't a boat without you in it. And you couldn't ride in the boat without the boat. So is that. Examine the Pentecostal rising of you in the boat. But very few such as in students examine that. Excuse me.

[58:35]

People are raising their hands and not just talking. OK, I think you would. Oh, you're doing for Adam Adam. Okay, Adam, Adam, Adam. Yes. No, it's different. Kleshas are like doubt, sensual passion, anger, pride, greed, hate and delusion. Those are kleshas. Are the psychophysical energy disturbances that are that happen around dualistic thinking?

[59:36]

I see Martha. A different kind from what, from from. Yeah, I think so. He also says, you know, he also asks you to look at the five skandhas some places and see if you can find any self separate from the five skandhas, straight out of Abhidharma. He also asks you to see if you can find the beginning or the end of the self. He says, examine this. This is straight traditional insight meditation. Tara about a text you can find in the show begins. OK. But people don't usually that's not, you know, that's that's not so well known or so people don't necessarily practice that.

[60:40]

And those are some of the those are conceptual, those are conceptual objects. rather non-conceptual objects. Yes. You're asking me if I recommend doing investigatory work in his endo that you're asking me. Yes, I would. Oh, so you're the question is, would you have a call? The idea that you're going to meditate fix certain conceptual topics during a certain period of meditation. You do that rather than just have whatever comes up.

[61:47]

In other words, are you asking me if I would suggest that you act? That's what you're asking. And I would say no. I would say don't activate your mind around objects. I asking. You're asking me, would I suggest you activate your mind around the object so that the object will come up in the meditation hall? Is it necessary to do it for it to come up? Is that what you're asking? No, that wasn't your question. Your question wasn't, if that comes up in the meditation hall, is it okay? You said that's alternative, right? But you're just sitting there and suddenly the first skanda arises and it says, hey, guess what my name is? I'm the first skanda. You say, hi, I wasn't planning on doing skanda meditation, but since you tell me that's your name, I'll pay attention to you. But you don't have any problem with that, right?

[62:57]

That's genjo gone. But your question is, should I activate my mind around objects in such a way as to increase the likelihood that that certain kind of meditation will happen when I get in the zendo after reading about it in my room. Isn't that your question? Yeah. And I would say no. In other words, no expectations. Don't be studying and then have the expectation that you're going to be studying whatever you're studying when you get to some other place. I would say don't do that. It might happen, especially if you're memorizing the text. Right? You're memorizing a text about how to meditate on the five skandhas. You're constantly reciting that text to yourself all day long. Okay? With no expectations. You're not doing that to keep other people away.

[63:59]

Keep yourself calm. You just happen to be doing it. This is happening, and you have no expectations about it, no compulsions about it, and this is your life. Okay? And so then you go to Zendo, and it happens there, too, because that's what you're working on. Right. Now, is it possible for someone who's not activating her mind around objects and having no not attaching to anything inwardly. You're not attaching, you're not grasping or attaching to anything in your mind. When everything happens also in your mind, but so-called externally, you just let it be and stay still and quiet. Is it possible for such a person to read a sutra, have lunch, or memorize a sutra? Yes. A person like that can do things just like everybody else can. They can't do, they can't do, you know,

[65:01]

They can't abandon beings and stuff like that, but they can do all kinds of activities that are appropriate to the bodhisattva way, including going to the meditation hall and having a text arise in their mind. And then they can, in that context of not activating the mind around objects and not grasping anything, they can see the mind. They can see how the mind works. They can see that the mind, you know, obscures reality. They can see all that. Okay? Yehuda? I think that early Buddhism basically was really good.

[66:11]

But then this new idea came along of something which seemed even more extensive. In some sense, early Buddhism wasn't necessarily trying to help the practitioners be Buddhists. It was more like helping them beat arhats, which Shakyamuni Buddha was an arhat. In other words, arhat, someone who's liberated from all kinds of outflows and so on. So then later they had this idea of working for universal salvation rather than personal. Now, personal salvation, of course, once one has it, one is a compassionate, wise person in the world and helps people. But the scope of the path is more extensive. And you could say that in order to fulfill this more extensive path all the way up to Buddhahood, one has to have even a deeper insight than the earlier insight.

[67:14]

But it's not really necessarily deeper, but maybe more extensive, not just knowing what it takes to liberate yourself, but understanding what it takes to liberate all beings. In other words, you have to have, in some sense, a more thorough understanding of no self than in the earlier teaching. And in order to do that, one has to do all these wonderful, skillful things with people. Takes on. So I think freedom from duality, freedom from the belief in self and other being separate is part of the early path. And part of the Mahayana is just more extensive in terms of the goal of the project. Therefore, the insight needs to be deeper. Let's see, it's getting kind of late now. How are you feeling? Did this class kind of confuse you? No. Didn't confuse you too much.

[68:15]

Not that confused you? Yeah. Well, I thought it might be a little confusing. Using if we went on for about two or three more hours, I think everything would get cleared up. Yeah. But I, I, I think anyway, you're I feel now, now that we're at this can raise up this somewhat potentially disturbing issues of [...] investigation and analysis. See if you can see that actually they are part of Zen practice, even though we usually don't know literally or so explicitly. I think you maybe can be exposed to some of the analytical language of Mahayana Buddhism. and Theravada Buddhism, I think, without losing your basic.

[69:20]

So continue to do your basic stabilization practices as you have been doing them. But now you'll be offered some new material to grow on, to grow into. Develop skill and means to accompany. Your present level of insight. Which has happened so far. So I realize there's several questions, but if I could, if I could really just do those questions, would that be all right? Or because to some extent, you know, answer these questions in the next wave of people are frustrated. So there's no end to frustration. Right. So what do you want to do? You want to stop now? Getting us back together with... Get you back together with what?

[70:30]

Just, you know, a review of... A review of... I mean, there's... So you'd like to have some review or closing statements. And then there's also some questions. So what shall we do? Well, there's some people have some questions and then there's the people who are confused. I just guess, Helen. We don't say thinking. Usually we don't say thinking of non-thinking.

[71:30]

We say think of not thinking. Which is non-thinking. In other words, non-thinking is the way to enter thinking of not thinking. Non-thinking is the way of thinking of not thinking. In a sense, non-thinking is like shamatha. Thinking would be like identifying outflows? Yeah. Thinking would be like identifying outflows. But identifying outflows is thinking of not thinking. That's just regular thinking. Realizing and realizing emptiness would be, for example, doing analysis around conceptual material.

[72:52]

Yes. [...] Well, you said you said it became so it's already happening, right? I think your question is too extensive for this time. What about identifying outflows? Identifying outflows is a phenomenon. I mean, you can conceptually see how you have expectations. If you had shamatha. and you are observing your outflows, that would be samatavipashyana.

[73:58]

Right, you'd have insight into, you'd see. When people can see their outflows, they have enough composure to identify their outflows. There's some insight there. Thinking of not thinking is... The thinking of the Buddha. That's the Buddha's thinking. What kind of thinking does Buddha have? It's a kind of thinking which is beyond thinking, which we call not thinking or unthinking. But it's a kind of thinking. It's Buddha's thinking. What is that? That's what we really want to understand. In other words, it's a thinking that doesn't happen, for example. Okay, Buddhist thinking is like really off the charts, right? Because Buddhist thinking is like thinking which doesn't happen at the same time that it's awareness of all the kinds of thinking that happen. You know, Buddhists are in a phenomenal world where it's happening and how it works and all that at the same time that they see that it doesn't happen.

[75:06]

That's the thinking of the Buddha. The first line is the result. The first line is the result. The first line is the result. That's the Buddha. I'm talking to the Buddha. I say, hey, Buddha, what kind of thinking are you doing? So he tells you. He's basically saying, it's off the charts. What kind of thinking are you doing? I'm thinking off the charts. This is like, you know, to deal with this. It's not in your realm. Forget it. Well, how? Okay, okay. Now I'm thinking. What's not thinking? That's what Bodhidharma did. Second ancestor comes to see him. He's just sitting there. Cut your arm off. Don't cut your arm off. It's the gate.

[76:08]

Non-thinking is the way to enter into Buddha's thinking. Samatha is the way you enter into higher insight. The higher insight of the Buddha is the first part of that story. The way the Buddha is thinking when the Buddha is sitting. That's what we're talking about. How does that happen? You enter through non-thinking. This is the entry point to the study. This non-thinking. Non-thinking. It's a it's a meditative exercise, which we can say is all these various kinds of shamanic practices which we brought up. And it includes ending, you know, identifying your outflows, because if you've got outflows, you should you should study them. Yes, Max. I don't understand how the tutors are identical. Oh, because the truth of worldly convention is only true in the sense that it covers all truth.

[77:21]

It's not true. And it's not true not in a passive way. Worldly convention actually hides what's actually going on. Well, in a sense, it's just one truth. Except that the one truth can be hidden. Therefore, is something we can see. We can see what's hiding the truth, namely the world. So, what's hidden and what's hiding are inseparable and identical. Gordon? Oh, it was about the, I was wondering, Mahayana has, that has moved in a lot of ways, sort of, Well, one answer would be, if they look at it from the Bodhisattva point of view, they're not Theravada anymore.

[78:27]

The other answer would be, if they still say they're Theravada, but they look at it from the Bodhisattva point of view, then they're Theravada who are moving towards the Bodhisattva point of view. Certainly some so-called Theravada Their whole life is devoted to helping people. But do they have the metaphysical view of cosmic liberation? If they don't, then they're different from the Mahayana, which actually has this cosmic liberation in mind. Where you're actually thinking of a practice of saving every single being. This is your scope. In other words, the Buddhist scope. But somebody so-called in a Theravada temple might have that scope. Well, then, even if they don't say they're a bodhisattva, they have the same scope. And in some Zen temples, some of the practitioners have more of a Theravada, more of a limited scope. They're not actually concerned with universal salvation.

[79:32]

They're concerned with their own composure and repose and tranquility and freedom from suffering. They're not really ready to be bodhisattvas at that point. Okay? Nigel? You raised your hand. It's only true at the conventional level. It's only true for ignorant people. Yes, it is. Right. Oh, it is hiding something else. Yes, at that level, it's hiding something. It's hiding that nothing's happening. Right, and the fact that the airplane's falling on the sky is hiding the fact that nothing's happening. You can't see that nothing's happening when you look at the airplane. Even airplanes that don't crash, even regular, like, safely flying airplanes, they also hide the fact that nothing's happening.

[80:39]

If you look at an airplane flying, you can't see that nothing's happening at the same time you see that happening. Anyway, don't you see that seeing that something's happening hides that nothing's happening? I'm planning to discuss what is true at the conventional level. At the level of conventional truth, there is no conventional truth. Worldly convention is not true at all. It's based on ignorance. There's nothing true about it except among ignorant people. Those are the only people who think it's true. No wise person thinks that worldly convention is true. It's nonsense. It's false. It's not true. The only way it's true, the only way it's true is by the fact that it hides it. It's obscuring capacity is the only thing through the only way it gets access to the truth because it covers the truth.

[81:48]

Aside from that, it has no validity. I mean, no truth. I'm saying that worldly convention is nothing true about it. That's what I'm saying. No. No, just among among ignorant people. That's where it's only true for them. That's what I'm saying. Because it's for the ignorant person would say that the Buddha person would say the Buddha died, too. Well, I'm not going to slander anybody, OK? Well, you asked me if he was an ignorant person. Anyway, Nigel, I am saying this.

[82:51]

If you don't agree with me, fine. But I am saying worldly convention is not true. I'm saying that. If you don't agree with me, check you don't agree. But I am saying that. But there's also a thing called worldly truth, the truth of worldly convention. But the truth of worldly convention is not that worldly convention is true. It is that worldly convention hides the truth about it.

[83:21]

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